| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"maff" |
| Date: |
10 Nov 2005 12:49:01 AM |
| Object: |
World made in seven days? |
World made in seven days?
http://www.channel4.com/news/special-reports/special-reports-storypage.jsp?id=1104
Published: 9 Nov 2005
By: Jonathan Rugman
Jonathan Rugman looks at America's first Creationist museum.
"We're becoming a laughing stock", so a member of Kansas school board
lamented the state's decision last night to teach `intelligent design'
- the controversial movement arguing evolution just doesn't explain the
origins of life.
But for `Creationists' - intelligent design is a religious compromise -
for they say the Bible is not only a moral guide - but scientific
textbook, its every word the litereal word of God.
Our Washington Correspondent Jonathan Rugman has been exploring
America's first `Creationist Museum', where a vegetarian T-Rex - made
along with man on day six of creation - strolls through a replica
Garden of Eden.
Watch the report
http://edge.channel4.com/news/2005/11/week_2/09_dinosaur.wmv
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: World made in seven days? |
10 Nov 2005 12:56:41 AM |
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That's awesome. Passions of the Christ 2 had better have a good T-rex
fight.
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| User: "Robert J. Kolker" |
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| Title: Re: World made in seven days? |
10 Nov 2005 01:12:37 AM |
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maff wrote:
But for `Creationists' - intelligent design is a religious compromise -
for they say the Bible is not only a moral guide - but scientific
textbook, its every word the litereal word of God.
Taken literally, the Scriptures are self contradictory nonsense and make
assertions that are clearly non-factual. The sun existed before plants
appeared on earth, but the scriptures has the sun making an appearance
on the fourth day. This is utterly absurd. How can there be -waters-
with no heat. The -waters- would be frozen solid and coluld not be
gathered anywhere. How could there be light and dark without the stars?
The scriptures also speak of the four corners of the Earth. The Earth is
approximately an oblate spheroid and does not have corners. The
ninty-third psalm says the earth is not moved. The planet has three
modes of motions, rotation, revolution and precession wobble of the pole
of rotation. And so on and so on. The scriptures must not be taken
literally in so far as they refer to material reality.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "Brett Aubrey" |
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| Title: Re: World made in seven days? |
10 Nov 2005 02:06:02 AM |
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"Robert J. Kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:3tfl4lFs4ilqU1@individual.net...
maff wrote:
But for `Creationists' - intelligent design is a religious compromise -
for they say the Bible is not only a moral guide - but scientific
textbook, its every word the litereal word of God.
Taken literally, the Scriptures are self contradictory nonsense and make
assertions that are clearly non-factual. The sun existed before plants
appeared on earth, but the scriptures has the sun making an appearance
on the fourth day. This is utterly absurd. How can there be -waters-
with no heat. The -waters- would be frozen solid and coluld not be
gathered anywhere. How could there be light and dark without the stars?
The scriptures also speak of the four corners of the Earth. The Earth is
approximately an oblate spheroid and does not have corners. The
ninty-third psalm says the earth is not moved. The planet has three
modes of motions, rotation, revolution and precession wobble of
the pole of rotation.
At least 4... circulation around the galaxy. A fifth might be - depending
on your view of "motion" - the increase in distances between the Milky Way
and most other galaxies due to expansion of the universe. Also, the
decreasing distance between the MWG and Andromeda.
And so on and so on. The scriptures must not be taken
literally in so far as they refer to material reality.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "kathryn" |
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| Title: Re: World made in seven days? |
10 Nov 2005 10:25:47 AM |
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"Robert J. Kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:3tfl4lFs4ilqU1@individual.net...
maff wrote:
But for `Creationists' - intelligent design is a religious compromise -
for they say the Bible is not only a moral guide - but scientific
textbook, its every word the litereal word of God.
Taken literally, the Scriptures are self contradictory nonsense and make
assertions that are clearly non-factual. The sun existed before plants
appeared on earth, but the scriptures has the sun making an appearance
on the fourth day. This is utterly absurd. How can there be -waters-
with no heat. The -waters- would be frozen solid and coluld not be
gathered anywhere. How could there be light and dark without the stars?
The scriptures also speak of the four corners of the Earth. The Earth is
approximately an oblate spheroid and does not have corners. The
ninty-third psalm says the earth is not moved. The planet has three
modes of motions, rotation, revolution and precession wobble of the pole
of rotation. And so on and so on. The scriptures must not be taken
literally in so far as they refer to material reality.
Bob Kolker
Ah see you're trying to be all logical about it when the way *some* of these
people think is....
GODDIDIT GODDIDIT GODDIDIT
He's god! He can do anything!
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| User: "Earle Jones" |
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| Title: Re: World made in seven days? |
14 Nov 2005 12:15:33 AM |
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In article <3tfl4lFs4ilqU1@individual.net>,
"Robert J. Kolker" <nowhere@nowhere.com> wrote:
maff wrote:
But for `Creationists' - intelligent design is a religious compromise -
for they say the Bible is not only a moral guide - but scientific
textbook, its every word the litereal word of God.
Taken literally, the Scriptures are self contradictory nonsense and make
assertions that are clearly non-factual. The sun existed before plants
appeared on earth, but the scriptures has the sun making an appearance
on the fourth day. This is utterly absurd. How can there be -waters-
with no heat. The -waters- would be frozen solid and coluld not be
gathered anywhere. How could there be light and dark without the stars?
The scriptures also speak of the four corners of the Earth. The Earth is
approximately an oblate spheroid and does not have corners. The
ninty-third psalm says the earth is not moved. The planet has three
modes of motions, rotation, revolution and precession wobble of the pole
of rotation. And so on and so on. The scriptures must not be taken
literally in so far as they refer to material reality.
Bob Kolker
*
You mean you don't agree with the great Christian, Jerry Falwell?
"The Bible is the inerrant... Word of God. It is absolutely
infallible, without error in all matters pertaining to faith and
practice, as well as in areas such as geography, science, history,
etc."
--Jerry Falwell, Finding Inner Peace and Strength (p.26)
earle
*
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| User: "Robert J. Kolker" |
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| Title: Re: World made in seven days? |
14 Nov 2005 01:13:44 AM |
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Earle Jones wrote:
*
You mean you don't agree with the great Christian, Jerry Falwell?
"The Bible is the inerrant... Word of God. It is absolutely
infallible, without error in all matters pertaining to faith and
practice, as well as in areas such as geography, science, history,
etc."
No wonder Falwell is out of round. He thinks pi = 3, just like it says
in the scriptures.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "Accidental" |
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| Title: Re: World made in seven days? |
14 Nov 2005 02:08:30 AM |
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Robert J. Kolker wrote:
Earle Jones wrote:
*
You mean you don't agree with the great Christian, Jerry Falwell?
"The Bible is the inerrant... Word of God. It is absolutely
infallible, without error in all matters pertaining to faith and
practice, as well as in areas such as geography, science, history,
etc."
No wonder Falwell is out of round. He thinks pi = 3, just like it says
in the scriptures.
Bob Kolker
Oooh, could I get the book and chapter of that!? I'd love to show it
around to all my friends and brag, "You heretical scientists,
mathematicians and engineers and your crazy faith in pi being
irrational, everyone knows it is actually the rational number 3."
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| User: "shane" |
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| Title: Re: World made in seven days? |
14 Nov 2005 02:18:12 AM |
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Accidental wrote:
Robert J. Kolker wrote:
Earle Jones wrote:
*
You mean you don't agree with the great Christian, Jerry Falwell?
"The Bible is the inerrant... Word of God. It is absolutely
infallible, without error in all matters pertaining to faith and
practice, as well as in areas such as geography, science, history,
etc."
No wonder Falwell is out of round. He thinks pi = 3, just like it says
in the scriptures.
Bob Kolker
Oooh, could I get the book and chapter of that!? I'd love to show it
around to all my friends and brag, "You heretical scientists,
mathematicians and engineers and your crazy faith in pi being
irrational, everyone knows it is actually the rational number 3."
1 Kings 7:23 - And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to
the other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a
line of thirty cubits did compass it round about.
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| User: "maff" |
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| Title: Re: World made in seven days? |
14 Nov 2005 02:31:04 AM |
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Accidental wrote:
Robert J. Kolker wrote:
Earle Jones wrote:
*
You mean you don't agree with the great Christian, Jerry Falwell?
"The Bible is the inerrant... Word of God. It is absolutely
infallible, without error in all matters pertaining to faith and
practice, as well as in areas such as geography, science, history,
etc."
No wonder Falwell is out of round. He thinks pi = 3, just like it says
in the scriptures.
Bob Kolker
Oooh, could I get the book and chapter of that!? I'd love to show it
around to all my friends and brag, "You heretical scientists,
mathematicians and engineers and your crazy faith in pi being
irrational, everyone knows it is actually the rational number 3."
A little known verse of the Bible reads
And he made a molten sea, ten cubits from the one brim to the
other: it was round all about, and his height was five cubits: and a
line of thirty cubits did compass it about. (I Kings 7, 23)
The same verse can be found in II Chronicles 4, 2. It occurs in a list
of specifications for the great temple of Solomon, built around 950 BC
and its interest here is that it gives Pi = 3.
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| User: "Robert J. Kolker" |
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| Title: Re: World made in seven days? |
14 Nov 2005 03:13:09 AM |
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maff wrote:
The same verse can be found in II Chronicles 4, 2. It occurs in a list
of specifications for the great temple of Solomon, built around 950 BC
and its interest here is that it gives Pi = 3.
Close enough for government work. The Egyptians had an even cruder
approximation to pi.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "maff" |
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| Title: Re: World made in seven days? |
14 Nov 2005 03:56:02 AM |
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Robert J. Kolker wrote:
maff wrote:
The same verse can be found in II Chronicles 4, 2. It occurs in a list
of specifications for the great temple of Solomon, built around 950 BC
and its interest here is that it gives Pi = 3.
Close enough for government work. The Egyptians had an even cruder
approximation to pi.
Nah. It's wrong regardless of whether it's government's work or god's
work.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "Robert J. Kolker" |
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| Title: Re: World made in seven days? |
14 Nov 2005 08:15:17 AM |
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maff wrote:
Nah. It's wrong regardless of whether it's government's work or god's
work.
For most everyday operations pi approximated by 3 1/7 is good enough. No
finite decimal expansion to approximate pi is correct, since pi is
irrational.
No one has every done a practical application of math or physics using
the correct value of pi. That would be impossible.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "maff" |
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| Title: Re: World made in seven days? |
14 Nov 2005 08:34:48 AM |
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Robert J. Kolker wrote:
maff wrote:
Nah. It's wrong regardless of whether it's government's work or god's
work.
For most everyday operations pi approximated by 3 1/7 is good enough. No
finite decimal expansion to approximate pi is correct, since pi is
irrational.
No one has every done a practical application of math or physics using
the correct value of pi. That would be impossible.
But the Goatherders of Palestine had no concept of PI.
Egyptian and Mesopotamian values of 25/8 = 3.125 and Root of 10 = 3.162
were more accurate.
The fact that the ratio of the circumference to the diameter of a
circle is constant has been known for so long that it is quite
untraceable. The earliest values of pi including the 'Biblical' value
of 3, were almost certainly found by measurement. In the Egyptian Rhind
Papyrus, which is dated about 1650 BC, there is good evidence for
4(8/9)2 = 3.16 as a value for pi.
Bob Kolker
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| User: "maff" |
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| Title: Re: World made in seven days? |
14 Nov 2005 11:37:39 AM |
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Robert J. Kolker wrote:
maff wrote:
Nah. It's wrong regardless of whether it's government's work or god's
work.
For most everyday operations pi approximated by 3 1/7 is good enough. No
finite decimal expansion to approximate pi is correct, since pi is
irrational.
What decimal point? They didn't know about decimals until Indian and
Islamic mathematicians introduced them in the 8th century CE or
earlier.
No one has every done a practical application of math or physics using
the correct value of pi. That would be impossible.
It depends on the appication. But Egyptian, Mesopotamian and Greek
matthematicians managed by using geometric ratios
Archimedes of Syracuse (287-212 BC). 223/71 < pi < 22/7. . (287-212
BCE).
Ptolemy (c. 150 AD) 3.1416
Zu Chongzhi (430-501 AD) 355/113
al-Khwarizmi (c. 800 ) 3.1416
al-Kashi (c. 1430) 14 places
Vičte (1540-1603) 9 places
Roomen (1561-1615) 17 places
Van Ceulen (c. 1600) 35 places
Ramanujan's Method of Approximating Pi
http://ic.net/~jnbohr/java/Ramanujan.html
Bob Kolker
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| User: "Grace Haliburton" |
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| Title: Re: World made in seven days? |
14 Nov 2005 06:30:27 AM |
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maff wrote:
Robert J. Kolker wrote:
maff wrote:
The same verse can be found in II Chronicles 4, 2. It occurs in a list
of specifications for the great temple of Solomon, built around 950 BC
and its interest here is that it gives Pi = 3.
Close enough for government work. The Egyptians had an even cruder
approximation to pi.
Nah. It's wrong regardless of whether it's government's work or god's
work.
Wrong, yes...but it gives decent answers, especially if you're
measuring in such flexible units as cubits.
Is it any less wrong to teach children that pi=3.14? (note hard = sign)
Because many schools do this; even the ones that don't nonetheless
often allow kids to think it by never asking for an answer of any
greater precision than two decimal places, and by allowing them to use
hard = signs in the place of approximately-equal-to signs.
But 3.14 works. It really does give quite good answers. And 3 worked
for Solomon, and whatever the Egyptians had worked for them (btw, how
do you get a cruder approximation than 3?)
--
-Grace
"Never trust anything that thinks for itself if you can't see where it
keeps its brain." - J.K. Rowling
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| User: "maff" |
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| Title: Re: World made in seven days? |
14 Nov 2005 08:11:14 AM |
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Grace Haliburton wrote:
maff wrote:
Robert J. Kolker wrote:
maff wrote:
The same verse can be found in II Chronicles 4, 2. It occurs in a list
of specifications for the great temple of Solomon, built around 950 BC
and its interest here is that it gives Pi = 3.
Close enough for government work. The Egyptians had an even cruder
approximation to pi.
Nah. It's wrong regardless of whether it's government's work or god's
work.
Wrong, yes...but it gives decent answers, especially if you're
measuring in such flexible units as cubits.
Is it any less wrong to teach children that pi=3.14? (note hard = sign)
Because many schools do this; even the ones that don't nonetheless
often allow kids to think it by never asking for an answer of any
greater precision than two decimal places, and by allowing them to use
hard = signs in the place of approximately-equal-to signs.
But 3.14 works. It really does give quite good answers. And 3 worked
for Solomon, and whatever the Egyptians had worked for them (btw, how
do you get a cruder approximation than 3?)
The problem is that they didn't have any concept of Pi. That's the
problem.
--
-Grace
"Never trust anything that thinks for itself if you can't see where it
keeps its brain." - J.K. Rowling
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| User: "Raymond Griffith" |
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| Title: Re: World made in seven days? |
15 Nov 2005 12:50:33 AM |
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in article 1131949827.370892.95960@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com, Grace
Haliburton at wrote on 11/14/05 1:30 AM:
maff wrote:
Robert J. Kolker wrote:
maff wrote:
The same verse can be found in II Chronicles 4, 2. It occurs in a list
of specifications for the great temple of Solomon, built around 950 BC
and its interest here is that it gives Pi = 3.
Close enough for government work. The Egyptians had an even cruder
approximation to pi.
Nah. It's wrong regardless of whether it's government's work or god's
work.
Wrong, yes...but it gives decent answers, especially if you're
measuring in such flexible units as cubits.
Is it any less wrong to teach children that pi=3.14? (note hard = sign)
Because many schools do this; even the ones that don't nonetheless
often allow kids to think it by never asking for an answer of any
greater precision than two decimal places, and by allowing them to use
hard = signs in the place of approximately-equal-to signs.
But 3.14 works. It really does give quite good answers. And 3 worked
for Solomon, and whatever the Egyptians had worked for them (btw, how
do you get a cruder approximation than 3?)
Actually, 3 didn't work for Solomon. When Solomon built the Temple, he had
to have the Phoenicians do the real work. They knew how to cut timber and
design buildings, and they got the job, along with an acknowledgement that
the Israelites weren't up to the job. Solomon also stiffed King Hiram,
giving him land and "cities" that were virtually worthless. The Scripture
has some very interesting stuff in it!
Regards,
Raymond E. Griffith
--
-Grace
"Never trust anything that thinks for itself if you can't see where it
keeps its brain." - J.K. Rowling
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