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Topic: Religions > Atheism
User: "Damian J. Anderson"
Date: 03 Mar 2005 06:02:49 AM
Object: WorldTies: Analysis: Atheism worldwide in decline
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http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20050301-123015-2069r.htm
Analysis: Atheism worldwide in decline
By Uwe Siemon-Netto
UPI Religious Affairs Editor
Gurat, France, Mar. 1 (UPI) -- There seems to be a growing consensus =
around the globe that godlessness is in trouble. "Atheism as a =
theoretical position is in decline worldwide," Munich theologian =
Wolfhart Pannenberg told United Press International Tuesday.=20
His Oxford colleague Alister McGrath agrees. Atheism's "future seems =
increasingly to lie in the private beliefs of individuals rather than in =
the great public domain it once regarded as its habitat," he wrote in =
the U.S. magazine, Christianity Today.
Two developments are plaguing atheism these days. One is that it appears =
to be losing its scientific underpinnings. The other is the historical =
experience of hundreds of millions of people worldwide that atheists are =
in no position to claim the moral high ground.
Writes Turkish philosopher Harun Yahya, "Atheism, which people have =
tried to for hundreds of years as 'the ways of reason and science,' is =
proving to be mere irrationality and ignorance."
As British philosopher Anthony Flew, once as hard-nosed a humanist as =
any, mused when turning his back on his former belief: It is, for =
example, impossible for evolution to account for the fact than one =
single cell can carry more data than all the volumes of the Encyclopedia =
Britannica put together.
Flew still does not accept the God of the Bible. But he has embraced the =
intelligent design concept of scholars such as William Dembski who only =
four years ago claimed to have been mobbed by pro-evolutionist =
colleagues at -- of all places -- Baylor University, a highly respected =
Southern Baptist institution in Waco, Tex.
The stunning desertion of a former intellectual ambassador of secular =
humanism to the belief in some form of intelligence behind the design of =
the universe makes Yahya's prediction sound probable: "The time is fast =
approaching when many people who are living in ignorance with no =
knowledge of their Creator will be graced by faith in the impending =
post-atheist world."
A few years ago, European scientists sniggered when studies in the =
United States -- for example, at Harvard and Duke universities -- showed =
a correlation between faith, prayer and recovery from illness. Now 1,200 =
studies at research centers around the world have come to similar =
conclusions, according to "Psychologie Heute," a German journal, citing, =
for example, the marked improvement of multiple sclerosis patients in =
Germany's Ruhr District due to "spiritual resources."
Atheism's other Achilles heel are the acts on inhumanity and lunacy =
committed in its name. As McGrath relates in Christianity Today: "With =
time (atheism) turned out to have just as many frauds, psychopaths, and =
careerists as religion does. ... With Stalin and Madalyn Murray O'Hair, =
atheism seems to have ended up mimicking the vices of the Spanish =
Inquisition and the worst televangelists, respectively."
John Updike's observation, "Among the repulsions of atheism for me has =
been is drastic uninterestingness as an intellectual position," appears =
to become common currency throughout much of the West.
The Rev. Paul M. Zulehner, dean of Vienna University's divinity school =
and one of the world's most distinguished sociologists of religion, told =
UPI Tuesday: "True atheists in Europe have become an infinitesimally =
small group. There are not enough of them to be used for sociological =
research."
The only exceptions to this rule, Zulehner said, are the former East =
Germany and the Czech Republic, where, as the saying goes, =
de-Christianization has been the only proven success of these regions' =
former communist rulers.
Zulehner cautions, however, that in the rest of Europe =
re-Christianization is by no means occurring. "What we are observing =
instead is a re-paganization," he went on, and this worries Christian =
theologians such as Munich's Pannenberg and the Rev. Gerald McDermott, =
an Episcopal priest and professor of religion and philosophy at Roanoke =
College in Salem, Va.
For although in every major European city except Paris spirituality is =
booming, according to Zulehner, this only proves the emergence of a =
diffuse belief system, Pannenberg said, but not the revitalization of =
traditional Christian religious faith.
Observing a similar phenomenon in the United States, McDermott stated =
that the "rise of all sorts of paganism is creating a false spirituality =
that proves to be a more dangerous rival to the Christian faith than =
atheism."
After all, a Satanist is also "spiritual."
Pannenberg, a Lutheran, praised the Roman Catholic Church for handling =
this peril more wisely than many of his fellow Protestants. "The =
Catholics stick to the central message of Christianity without making =
any concessions in the ethical realm," he said, referring to issues such =
as same-sex "marriages" and abortion.
In a similar vain, Zulehner, a Catholic, sees Christianity's greatest =
opportunity when its message addresses two seemingly irreconcilable =
quests of contemporary humanity - the quest for freedom and truth.
"Christianity alone affirms that truth and God's dependability are =
inseparable properties to which freedom is linked."
As for the "peril of spirituality," Zulehner sounded quite sanguine. He =
concluded from his research that in the long run the survival of =
worldviews should be expected to follow this lineup:=20
"The great world religions are best placed," he said. As a distant =
second he sees the diffuse forms of spirituality. Atheism, he insisted, =
will come in at the tail end.
--=20
Damian J. Anderson

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<P><STRONG><SPAN class=3Dtwt-title1-body>Analysis: Atheism worldwide in=20
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height=3D1=20
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class=3Dtwt-author1-body>By Uwe Siemon-Netto</SPAN><BR><SPAN=20
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<P>Gurat, France, Mar. 1 (UPI) -- There seems to be a growing consensus =
around=20
the globe that godlessness is in trouble. "Atheism as a theoretical =
position is=20
in decline worldwide," Munich theologian Wolfhart Pannenberg told United =
Press=20
International Tuesday. </P><!------ OAS AD 'Middle' begin ------>
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<P>His Oxford colleague Alister McGrath agrees. Atheism's "future seems=20
increasingly to lie in the private beliefs of individuals rather than in =
the=20
great public domain it once regarded as its habitat," he wrote in the =
U.S.=20
magazine, Christianity Today.</P>
<P>Two developments are plaguing atheism these days. One is that it =
appears to=20
be losing its scientific underpinnings. The other is the historical =
experience=20
of hundreds of millions of people worldwide that atheists are in no =
position to=20
claim the moral high ground.</P>
<P>Writes Turkish philosopher Harun Yahya, "Atheism, which people have =
tried to=20
for hundreds of years as 'the ways of reason and science,' is proving to =
be mere=20
irrationality and ignorance."</P>
<P>As British philosopher Anthony Flew, once as hard-nosed a humanist as =
any,=20
mused when turning his back on his former belief: It is, for example, =
impossible=20
for evolution to account for the fact than one single cell can carry =
more data=20
than all the volumes of the Encyclopedia Britannica put together.</P>
<P>Flew still does not accept the God of the Bible. But he has embraced =
the=20
intelligent design concept of scholars such as William Dembski who only =
four=20
years ago claimed to have been mobbed by pro-evolutionist colleagues at =
-- of=20
all places -- Baylor University, a highly respected Southern Baptist =
institution=20
in Waco, Tex.</P>
<P>The stunning desertion of a former intellectual ambassador of secular =
humanism to the belief in some form of intelligence behind the design of =
the=20
universe makes Yahya's prediction sound probable: "The time is fast =
approaching=20
when many people who are living in ignorance with no knowledge of their =
Creator=20
will be graced by faith in the impending post-atheist world."</P>
<P>A few years ago, European scientists sniggered when studies in the =
United=20
States -- for example, at Harvard and Duke universities -- showed a =
correlation=20
between faith, prayer and recovery from illness. Now 1,200 studies at =
research=20
centers around the world have come to similar conclusions, according to=20
"Psychologie Heute," a German journal, citing, for example, the marked=20
improvement of multiple sclerosis patients in Germany's Ruhr District =
due to=20
"spiritual resources."</P>
<P>Atheism's other Achilles heel are the acts on inhumanity and lunacy =
committed=20
in its name. As McGrath relates in Christianity Today: "With time =
(atheism)=20
turned out to have just as many frauds, psychopaths, and careerists as =
religion=20
does. ... With Stalin and Madalyn Murray O'Hair, atheism seems to have =
ended up=20
mimicking the vices of the Spanish Inquisition and the worst =
televangelists,=20
respectively."</P>
<P>John Updike's observation, "Among the repulsions of atheism for me =
has been=20
is drastic uninterestingness as an intellectual position," appears to =
become=20
common currency throughout much of the West.</P>
<P>The Rev. Paul M. Zulehner, dean of Vienna University's divinity =
school and=20
one of the world's most distinguished sociologists of religion, told UPI =
Tuesday: "True atheists in Europe have become an infinitesimally small =
group.=20
There are not enough of them to be used for sociological research."</P>
<P>The only exceptions to this rule, Zulehner said, are the former East =
Germany=20
and the Czech Republic, where, as the saying goes, de-Christianization =
has been=20
the only proven success of these regions' former communist rulers.</P>
<P>Zulehner cautions, however, that in the rest of Europe =
re-Christianization is=20
by no means occurring. "What we are observing instead is a =
re-paganization," he=20
went on, and this worries Christian theologians such as Munich's =
Pannenberg and=20
the Rev. Gerald McDermott, an Episcopal priest and professor of religion =
and=20
philosophy at Roanoke College in Salem, Va.</P>
<P>For although in every major European city except Paris spirituality =
is=20
booming, according to Zulehner, this only proves the emergence of a =
diffuse=20
belief system, Pannenberg said, but not the revitalization of =
traditional=20
Christian religious faith.</P>
<P>Observing a similar phenomenon in the United States, McDermott stated =
that=20
the "rise of all sorts of paganism is creating a false spirituality that =
proves=20
to be a more dangerous rival to the Christian faith than atheism."</P>
<P>After all, a Satanist is also "spiritual."</P>
<P>Pannenberg, a Lutheran, praised the Roman Catholic Church for =
handling this=20
peril more wisely than many of his fellow Protestants. "The Catholics =
stick to=20
the central message of Christianity without making any concessions in =
the=20
ethical realm," he said, referring to issues such as same-sex =
"marriages" and=20
abortion.</P>
<P>In a similar vain, Zulehner, a Catholic, sees Christianity's greatest =
opportunity when its message addresses two seemingly irreconcilable =
quests of=20
contemporary humanity - the quest for freedom and truth.</P>
<P>"Christianity alone affirms that truth and God's dependability are=20
inseparable properties to which freedom is linked."</P>
<P>As for the "peril of spirituality," Zulehner sounded quite sanguine. =
He=20
concluded from his research that in the long run the survival of =
worldviews=20
should be expected to follow this lineup: </P>
<P>"The great world religions are best placed," he said. As a distant =
second he=20
sees the diffuse forms of spirituality. Atheism, he insisted, will come =
in at=20
the tail end.</P>
<P>-- <BR>Damian J.=20
Anderson&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp; <A=20
href=3D"mailto:
">
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.

User: "Wieland der Schmied"

Title: Re: Panne: Atheism worldwide in decline 03 Mar 2005 02:24:27 PM
Damian J. Anderson wrote:

*http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20050301-123015-2069r.htm*

*Analysis: Atheism worldwide in decline


By Uwe Siemon-Netto
UPI Religious Affairs Editor
*

Gurat, France, Mar. 1 (UPI) -- There seems to be a growing consensus
around the globe that godlessness is in trouble. "Atheism as a
theoretical position is in decline worldwide," Munich theologian
Wolfhart Pannenberg told United Press International Tuesday.

He should look around in Munich a bit: Both big churches are loosing
members at such a rate, that the churches have to cut down their spending.
I guess he's got a proper name, "Panne" in German means breakdown and it
is a slang word meaning idiot


His Oxford colleague Alister McGrath agrees. Atheism's "future seems
increasingly to lie in the private beliefs of individuals rather than in
the great public domain it once regarded as its habitat," he wrote in
the U.S. magazine, Christianity Today.

Two developments are plaguing atheism these days. One is that it appears
to be losing its scientific underpinnings. The other is the historical
experience of hundreds of millions of people worldwide that atheists are
in no position to claim the moral high ground.

No, what's plaguing us, is that too many former believers are joining
us, who had suffered a lot from religeous brainwashing, and therefore
sometimes are a bit confused.


Writes Turkish philosopher Harun Yahya, "Atheism, which people have
tried to for hundreds of years as 'the ways of reason and science,' is
proving to be mere irrationality and ignorance."

What about about the thousands of years before? A lot of standstill
and lost intellectual development due to Christinity and Islam


As British philosopher Anthony Flew, once as hard-nosed a humanist as
any, mused when turning his back on his former belief: It is, for
example, impossible for evolution to account for the fact than one
single cell can carry more data than all the volumes of the Encyclopedia
Britannica put together.

Flew still does not accept the God of the Bible. But he has embraced the
intelligent design concept of scholars such as William Dembski who only
four years ago claimed to have been mobbed by pro-evolutionist
colleagues at -- of all places -- Baylor University, a highly respected
Southern Baptist institution in Waco, Tex.

The stunning desertion of a former intellectual ambassador of secular
humanism to the belief in some form of intelligence behind the design of
the universe makes Yahya's prediction sound probable: "The time is fast
approaching when many people who are living in ignorance with no
knowledge of their Creator will be graced by faith in the impending
post-atheist world."

A few years ago, European scientists sniggered when studies in the
United States -- for example, at Harvard and Duke universities -- showed
a correlation between faith, prayer and recovery from illness. Now 1,200
studies at research centers around the world have come to similar
conclusions, according to "Psychologie Heute," a German journal, citing,
for example, the marked improvement of multiple sclerosis patients in
Germany's Ruhr District due to "spiritual resources."

The Ruhr district (I grew up there)is known to be a rather tough area
for the "spiritual resource" mongers. If you want to see lots of empty
churches, look at Duisburg, Essen, Bochum or Dortmund.


Atheism's other Achilles heel are the acts on inhumanity and lunacy
committed in its name. As McGrath relates in Christianity Today: "With
time (atheism) turned out to have just as many frauds, psychopaths, and
careerists as religion does. ... With Stalin and Madalyn Murray O'Hair,

Now wait a minute, what kind of discussion are you heading for?
And let's not forget, Stalin had a Christian education.

atheism seems to have ended up mimicking the vices of the Spanish
Inquisition and the worst televangelists, respectively."

John Updike's observation, "Among the repulsions of atheism for me has
been is drastic uninterestingness as an intellectual position," appears
to become common currency throughout much of the West.

The Rev. Paul M. Zulehner, dean of Vienna University's divinity school
and one of the world's most distinguished sociologists of religion, told
UPI Tuesday: "True atheists in Europe have become an infinitesimally
small group. There are not enough of them to be used for sociological
research."

What a cheap and wrong excuse for not doing proper field work


The only exceptions to this rule, Zulehner said, are the former East
Germany and the Czech Republic, where, as the saying goes,
de-Christianization has been the only proven success of these regions'
former communist rulers.

Zulehner cautions, however, that in the rest of Europe
re-Christianization is by no means occurring. "What we are observing
instead is a re-paganization,"

Well, there was some of that 65 years ago, but it it wasn't exactly a
success story. Today most people in Europe just don't care about
religeon, because they are no longer forced to pretend to be religeous.
he went on, and this worries Christian

theologians such as Munich's Pannenberg

Panne again
and the Rev. Gerald McDermott,

an Episcopal priest and professor of religion and philosophy at Roanoke
College in Salem, Va.

For although in every major European city except Paris spirituality is
booming, according to Zulehner, this only proves the emergence of a
diffuse belief system, Pannenberg said, but not the revitalization of
traditional Christian religious faith.

Observing a similar phenomenon in the United States, McDermott stated
that the "rise of all sorts of paganism is creating a false spirituality
that proves to be a more dangerous rival to the Christian faith than
atheism."

After all, a Satanist is also "spiritual."

Pannenberg, a Lutheran, praised the Roman Catholic Church for handling

Oh, Panne

this peril more wisely than many of his fellow Protestants. "The
Catholics stick to the central message of Christianity without making
any concessions in the ethical realm," he said, referring to issues such
as same-sex "marriages" and abortion.

In a similar vain, Zulehner, a Catholic, sees Christianity's greatest
opportunity when its message addresses two seemingly irreconcilable
quests of contemporary humanity - the quest for freedom and truth.

"Christianity alone affirms that truth and God's dependability are
inseparable properties to which freedom is linked."

As for the "peril of spirituality," Zulehner sounded quite sanguine. He
concluded from his research that in the long run the survival of
worldviews should be expected to follow this lineup:

"The great world religions are best placed," he said. As a distant
second he sees the diffuse forms of spirituality. Atheism, he insisted,
will come in at the tail end.

The RCC and the united Lutheran and Reformed Church of Germany, the two
big churches here, have lost millions of members in the last 30 years,
someone is "Panne" around here.
An old limmeric already said:
God's plan had a great beginning
Man spoiled it all by sinning
I trust that the story
will end with God's glory,
but now the other side's winning


--
Damian J. Anderson


<mailto:
>

Wieland the Smith
AA 2040
EAC: Herder of the Trolls
.

User: "Al Klein"

Title: Re: WorldTies: Analysis: Atheism worldwide in decline 03 Mar 2005 12:12:12 PM
On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 07:02:49 -0500, "Damian J. Anderson"
<Damian.Anderson@gmail.com> said in alt.atheism:

http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20050301-123015-2069r.htm
Analysis: Atheism worldwide in decline

1) Please stop posting HTML and graphics to non-binary groups.
2) Please set your line length to something sane, like 70, so people
can read what you post. Not everyone uses a mail client to read news.
--
rukbat at verizon dot net
"Every sensible man, every honest man, must hold the christian sect in horror. 'But what
shall we substitute in its place?' you say. What? A ferocious animal has sucked the
blood of my relatives. I tell you to rid yourselves of this beast and you ask me what
you shall put in its place?" - Voltaire
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
.
User: "Christopher A. Lee"

Title: Re: WorldTies: Analysis: Atheism worldwide in decline 05 Mar 2005 08:57:51 AM
On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 18:12:12 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>
wrote:

On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 07:02:49 -0500, "Damian J. Anderson"
<Damian.Anderson@gmail.com> said in alt.atheism:

http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20050301-123015-2069r.htm
Analysis: Atheism worldwide in decline


1) Please stop posting HTML and graphics to non-binary groups.

2) Please set your line length to something sane, like 70, so people
can read what you post. Not everyone uses a mail client to read news.

It's Damian, the loony moonie who has been toosed off more ISPs than
anybody else for his behaviour. You expect manners and courtesy from
him?
.
User: "Eric"

Title: Re: WorldTies: Analysis: Atheism worldwide in decline 05 Mar 2005 07:06:46 PM
In article <95ij21h1d88r3du2gl3k5rg9qjtjq33gld@4ax.com>, Christopher A.
Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote:

On Thu, 03 Mar 2005 18:12:12 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>
wrote:

On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 07:02:49 -0500, "Damian J. Anderson"
<Damian.Anderson@gmail.com> said in alt.atheism:

http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20050301-123015-2069r.htm
Analysis: Atheism worldwide in decline


1) Please stop posting HTML and graphics to non-binary groups.

2) Please set your line length to something sane, like 70, so people
can read what you post. Not everyone uses a mail client to read news.


It's Damian, the loony moonie who has been toosed off more ISPs than
anybody else for his behaviour. You expect manners and courtesy from
him?

Damian's been posting on Usenet for over a decade and in that time he
has had, oh, let me see if I can count them all... 2 changes in his
email address, and I think one change of server and that was for when
he wiped out all the porn groups on usenet way back in the day.
.



User: "Christopher A. Lee"

Title: Re: WorldTies: Analysis: Atheism worldwide in decline 05 Mar 2005 08:51:07 AM
On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 07:02:49 -0500, "Damian J. Anderson"
<Damian.Anderson@gmail.com> wrote:

http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20050301-123015-2069r.htm
Analysis: Atheism worldwide in decline

The loony moony is back again, repeating his stanmdard vicious
slanders about atheists.
This forwarded to his ISP.
.
User: "Damian J. Anderson"

Title: Re: WorldTies: Analysis: Atheism worldwide in decline 05 Mar 2005 09:49:26 AM
Come on, it was a news article. Grow up. If the ideology of atheism is
losing power and showing its moral bankruptcy, it is a good thing. Atheistic
materialism / Marxism Leninism / scientific socialism is responsible for
over a hundred million dead in the 20th century. It cannot claim any moral
high ground.
--
Damian J. Anderson

"Christopher A. Lee" <calee@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:vohj21hesv6q6921tcj8lhfkndvepjhgqd@4ax.com...

On Thu, 3 Mar 2005 07:02:49 -0500, "Damian J. Anderson"
<

> wrote:

http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20050301-123015-2069r.htm
Analysis: Atheism worldwide in decline


The loony moony is back again, repeating his stanmdard vicious
slanders about atheists.

This forwarded to his ISP.

.
User: "Don Kresch"

Title: Re: WorldTies: Analysis: Atheism worldwide in decline 05 Mar 2005 05:12:28 PM
In alt.atheism on Sat, 5 Mar 2005 10:49:26 -0500, "Damian J. Anderson"
<Damian.Anderson@gmail.com> let us all know that:


Come on, it was a news article. Grow up. If the ideology of atheism

There is no ideology of atheism.

is
losing power and showing its moral bankruptcy, it is a good thing. Atheistic
materialism / Marxism Leninism / scientific socialism

There's no such thing as that combination.
Don
---
aa #51, Knight of BAAWA, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.
"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man"
.
User: "Christopher A. Lee"

Title: Re: WorldTies: Analysis: Atheism worldwide in decline 06 Mar 2005 11:55:49 AM
On Sat, 05 Mar 2005 17:12:28 -0600, Don Kresch
<ROT13.qxerfpu@jv.ee.pbz.com> wrote:

In alt.atheism on Sat, 5 Mar 2005 10:49:26 -0500, "Damian J. Anderson"
<Damian.Anderson@gmail.com> let us all know that:


Come on, it was a news article. Grow up. If the ideology of atheism


There is no ideology of atheism.

As well as lying about the "ideology of atheism", he was lying about
it being a news article.
It was deliberate and vicious slander (perhaps libel) published by the
moonies in what the Washington Times, which as we all know is a moonie
rag.

is
losing power and showing its moral bankruptcy, it is a good thing. Atheistic
materialism / Marxism Leninism / scientific socialism


There's no such thing as that combination.

He knows this because nobody could be so stuoid. He imagines he's
doing the reincarnation of Jesus' work for him when he posts his sheer
nastiness about atheists, to atheists.



Don
---
aa #51, Knight of BAAWA, DNRC o-, Member of the [H]orde
Atheist Minister for St. Dogbert.

"No being is so important that he can usurp the rights of another"
Picard to Data/Graves "The Schizoid Man"

.


User: "John Baker"

Title: Re: WorldTies: Analysis: Atheism worldwide in decline 05 Mar 2005 11:48:29 AM
On Sat, 5 Mar 2005 10:49:26 -0500, "Damian J. Anderson"
<Damian.Anderson@gmail.com> wrote:


Come on, it was a news article. Grow up. If the ideology of atheism is
losing power and showing its moral bankruptcy, it is a good thing. Atheistic
materialism / Marxism Leninism / scientific socialism is responsible for
over a hundred million dead in the 20th century.

Fucking liar.

It cannot claim any moral high ground.

Nor does it, nor has it ever. Atheism is simply a lack of belief in
deities. Nothing more. It is not a belief system, it is not a
philosophy, it is not a way of life, and above all it is not a
religion
Now, get your tiny-minded, bigoted, lying ***** out of alt.atheism
before you lose yet another account.
.
User: "Eric"

Title: Re: WorldTies: Analysis: Atheism worldwide in decline 05 Mar 2005 07:45:18 PM
In article <igsj21dh7fls2u97o4u00p1q93adpe8kt3@4ax.com>, John Baker
<nunya@bizniz.net> wrote:

On Sat, 5 Mar 2005 10:49:26 -0500, "Damian J. Anderson"
<Damian.Anderson@gmail.com> wrote:


Come on, it was a news article. Grow up. If the ideology of atheism is
losing power and showing its moral bankruptcy, it is a good thing. Atheistic
materialism / Marxism Leninism / scientific socialism is responsible for
over a hundred million dead in the 20th century.


Fucking liar.

It cannot claim any moral high ground.


Nor does it, nor has it ever.

Many atheists try to. Maybe you don't.
Oh, wait a minute. You just did, by trying to deny those who defined
themselves as militant atheists role in the deaths of hundreds of
millions during the 20th century.

Atheism is simply a lack of belief in
deities. Nothing more. It is not a belief system, it is not a
philosophy, it is not a way of life, and above all it is not a
religion

Calling a belief "a lack of belief" doesn't make it any less a belief.
Belief system? I can find you scads of websites delineating a common
belief system of atheisitic materialists.


Now, get your tiny-minded, bigoted, lying ***** out of alt.atheism
before you lose yet another account.

Unwillingness to discuss or even tolerate the posting of an article to
alt.atheism that says atheism is waning, would make you the very
poster-boy of bigotry and tiny-mindedness. Seems to me that an article
on atheism would be very on-topic to alt.atheism. You have made
yourself a laughingstock.
.
User: "Steve Jones"

Title: Re: WorldTies: Analysis: Atheism worldwide in decline 09 Mar 2005 07:29:48 AM
Eric <lb@nospam.com> wrote in message news:<060320051045180817%lb@nospam.com>...
<snip>

Atheism is simply a lack of belief in
deities. Nothing more. It is not a belief system, it is not a
philosophy, it is not a way of life, and above all it is not a
religion


Calling a belief "a lack of belief" doesn't make it any less a belief.

Does calling baldness "a lack of hair" make it less of a hair colour?
And if you suggest that anything for which we have no evidence *may*
exist, why are you not a pantheist?


Belief system? I can find you scads of websites delineating a common
belief system of atheisitic materialists.

No. You may be able to find lots of websites that outline the view of
individual atheists (and it is worth underlining that those who run
websites are a self-selecting group), but what you will NOT find, and
*cannot* find, is any overarching set of commonly held, mutually
agreed atheist principles for belief and behaviour. I can guarantee
you cannot find this because I *am* an atheist, and I have subscribed
to no such set of principles. Religious people, however, do indeed
subscribe to the same set of principles (in theory, at least), as
delinated in the revealed texts of their religion. And, it seems,
many religious people see to find it impossible to conceive of atheism
outside that context.
You could look at this this way:
What shared attributes do people who are law enforecment officers
have?
What shared attributes do people who are NOT law enforcement officers
have?
That's why the whole "leader X was an atheist and he did bad stuff, so
that was done in the name of atheism, and atheism is a bad thing"
argument holds no water. It matters not one whit whether X was or was
not an atheist. Even if he believed that he had to kill and/or
repress people because they were religious, that does not have ANY
CONNECTION to what ANY OTHER atheist does or does not do - because, as
I've previously pointed out, atheists have no externally imposed,
shared set of values.
On the other hand, people who kill and repress using the exclusivity
justification of their religion (i.e. "I am the only god! Duff up the
unbeliever! Make the unbeliever act as I say!") are necessarily doing
so in its name. They can quite reasonably argue that they are acting
per the tenets of their religion. Atheists, lacking such tenets,
cannot and do not: they are acting for themselves and themselves
alone.
<snip>
As far as a worldwide decline in atheism goes, here in the UK
adherence to religion here is definitely declining, thankfully. The
only places where it is on the rise is in certain ethnic minorities,
which, given the political climate over the last few years, isn't
tremendously surprising. The overall trend is still downwards,
however.
I am somewhat puzzled as to why religious people think an overall gain
in the numbers of those identifying as religious worldwide is a good
thing for their religion, since the majority of those "converts" will
not actually be for their religion.
Steve
.
User: "Eric"

Title: Re: WorldTies: Analysis: Atheism worldwide in decline 09 Mar 2005 09:32:06 AM
In article <a435ad3c.0503090529.4148b2f@posting.google.com>, Steve
Jones <zamp@emphyrio.demon.co.uk> wrote:


I am somewhat puzzled as to why religious people think an overall gain
in the numbers of those identifying as religious worldwide is a good
thing for their religion, since the majority of those "converts" will
not actually be for their religion.

Some of us have a healthy respect for the faithful, as well as for the
conscientious. Generally speaking, an increase in faith, if they live
by the tenets of most religions to practice charity and tolerance for
others, is a good thing from our viewpoint.
An increase in conscientiousness is a good thing too.
I actually believe that most atheists strive to be good people too.
My comments have always been about a particular subset.
.
User: "thomas p"

Title: Re: WorldTies: Analysis: Atheism worldwide in decline 09 Mar 2005 02:12:57 PM
On Thu, 10 Mar 2005 00:32:06 +0900, Eric <lb@nospam.com> wrote:

In article <a435ad3c.0503090529.4148b2f@posting.google.com>, Steve
Jones <zamp@emphyrio.demon.co.uk> wrote:


I am somewhat puzzled as to why religious people think an overall gain
in the numbers of those identifying as religious worldwide is a good
thing for their religion, since the majority of those "converts" will
not actually be for their religion.


Some of us have a healthy respect for the faithful, as well as for the
conscientious. Generally speaking, an increase in faith, if they live
by the tenets of most religions to practice charity and tolerance for
others, is a good thing from our viewpoint.

You have not demonstrated the least bit of charity, tolerance or even
honesty.


An increase in conscientiousness is a good thing too.

I actually believe that most atheists strive to be good people too.

My comments have always been about a particular subset.

Your comments have always been lies.
Thomas P.
"Morality is simply the attitude we adopt towards people whom we do not like."
Oscar Wilde
.



User: "Dubh Ghall"

Title: Re: WorldTies: Analysis: Atheism worldwide in decline 06 Mar 2005 07:31:03 AM
On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 10:45:18 +0900, Eric <lb@nospam.com> wrote:

In article <igsj21dh7fls2u97o4u00p1q93adpe8kt3@4ax.com>, John Baker
<nunya@bizniz.net> wrote:

On Sat, 5 Mar 2005 10:49:26 -0500, "Damian J. Anderson"
<Damian.Anderson@gmail.com> wrote:


Come on, it was a news article. Grow up. If the ideology of atheism is
losing power and showing its moral bankruptcy, it is a good thing. Atheistic
materialism / Marxism Leninism / scientific socialism is responsible for
over a hundred million dead in the 20th century.


Fucking liar.

It cannot claim any moral high ground.


Nor does it, nor has it ever.


Many atheists try to.

Atheists, may well do, and oft times, with good reason, *atheism* however, does
not.
Atheism makes no claims about anything.
snip


Calling a belief "a lack of belief" doesn't make it any less a belief.

Calling a lack of belief, a belief, does not make it any more a belief.
But if it should happen, that some "believe" there are no gods, that "belief" is
at least, based on evidence and reason.
Allow me to explain:
First, the evidence.
There is no empirical evidence for the existence of any god, or gods.
Second, the reasoning.
If there is no empirical evidence , then it is reasonable to assume that there
is nothing to leave empirical evidence; Ergo, no gods.

Belief system? I can find you scads of websites delineating a common
belief system of atheisitic materialists.

You probably can, but in each case, it is the view/opinion/philosophy, of one
person, it in no way, binds any other atheist.
Personally, I find any, and all, proposed, formal, philosophies, to be a load
of old bollocks.

Now, get your tiny-minded, bigoted, lying ***** out of alt.atheism
before you lose yet another account.


Unwillingness to discuss or even tolerate the posting of an article to
alt.atheism that says atheism is waning, would make you the very
poster-boy of bigotry and tiny-mindedness. Seems to me that an article
on atheism would be very on-topic to alt.atheism. You have made
yourself a laughingstock.

None the less, he has a point.
You speak in ignorance, calling xtian propaganda, which flies in the face of the
evidence, "truth".
The evidence has been posted here, in fact, the evidence is posted here, every
time some silly xtian makes this kind of assertion. So there is no excuse for
your ignorance of it; so I will not post it again.
One can then only assume that your ignorance is either feigned, or the product
of that strange xtian ability, to CHOOSE, what you will, or will not, believe.
Either way, it is dishonest.
--
Puck Greenman
The spelling Like any opinion stated here
purely my own
#162 BAAWA Knight.
Plonked by Rob Duncan

January 27th
Na bister 500,000
.

User: "thomas p"

Title: Re: WorldTies: Analysis: Atheism worldwide in decline 06 Mar 2005 07:20:49 AM
On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 10:45:18 +0900, Eric <lb@nospam.com> wrote:

In article <igsj21dh7fls2u97o4u00p1q93adpe8kt3@4ax.com>, John Baker
<nunya@bizniz.net> wrote:

On Sat, 5 Mar 2005 10:49:26 -0500, "Damian J. Anderson"
<Damian.Anderson@gmail.com> wrote:


Come on, it was a news article. Grow up. If the ideology of atheism is
losing power and showing its moral bankruptcy, it is a good thing. Atheistic
materialism / Marxism Leninism / scientific socialism is responsible for
over a hundred million dead in the 20th century.


Fucking liar.

It cannot claim any moral high ground.


Nor does it, nor has it ever.


Many atheists try to. Maybe you don't.

Oh, wait a minute. You just did, by trying to deny those who defined
themselves as militant atheists role in the deaths of hundreds of
millions during the 20th century.

"Militant atheists"? There is no such thing. One imagines you are
referring to such people as Stalin, who did not describe himself as a
militant atheist but as a Communist, or Hitler, who described himself
as a Christian, or Mao, who described himself as a Communist. Do you
have anything to offer beyond your lies? Please do not claim that
Communism and atheism are the same. I am an atheist, but I am not a
Communist. Your lies are so silly, one suspects that you tell them
just to be annoying; it is hard to believe that you could really be
stupid enough to believe them.


Atheism is simply a lack of belief in
deities. Nothing more. It is not a belief system, it is not a
philosophy, it is not a way of life, and above all it is not a
religion


Calling a belief "a lack of belief" doesn't make it any less a belief.

Belief system? I can find you scads of websites delineating a common
belief system of atheisitic materialists.

Which would be immaterial. Atheism itself is not a system of any
kind, no matter how many systems include atheism. The word describes
the lack of a belief in a god. A system has to contain at least two
elements. Just because some people make atheism a part of their
systems does not make atheism itself a system. Let's see if you can
grasp that concept.




Now, get your tiny-minded, bigoted, lying ***** out of alt.atheism
before you lose yet another account.


Unwillingness to discuss or even tolerate the posting of an article to
alt.atheism that says atheism is waning, would make you the very
poster-boy of bigotry and tiny-mindedness. Seems to me that an article
on atheism would be very on-topic to alt.atheism. You have made
yourself a laughingstock.

You are the one telling obvious lies, lies that have been pointed out
as lies literally thousands of times. If you are not actually lying,
you are incapable of learning. Either way you have made yourself
appear to be either a fool or a very adolescent person who enjoys
being an *****.
.
User: "Eric"

Title: Re: WorldTies: Analysis: Atheism worldwide in decline 06 Mar 2005 11:22:29 AM
In article <bbjl21hbs7ckjiiesmhrcddia96jvb7nb2@4ax.com>, thomas p
<tonyofbexarnospam@yahoo.dk> wrote:

On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 10:45:18 +0900, Eric <lb@nospam.com> wrote:

In article <igsj21dh7fls2u97o4u00p1q93adpe8kt3@4ax.com>, John Baker
<nunya@bizniz.net> wrote:

On Sat, 5 Mar 2005 10:49:26 -0500, "Damian J. Anderson"
<Damian.Anderson@gmail.com> wrote:


Come on, it was a news article. Grow up. If the ideology of atheism is
losing power and showing its moral bankruptcy, it is a good thing.
Atheistic
materialism / Marxism Leninism / scientific socialism is responsible for
over a hundred million dead in the 20th century.


Fucking liar.

It cannot claim any moral high ground.


Nor does it, nor has it ever.



Many atheists try to. Maybe you don't.

Oh, wait a minute. You just did, by trying to deny those who defined
themselves as militant atheists role in the deaths of hundreds of
millions during the 20th century.


"Militant atheists"? There is no such thing.

Lenin: Communism is militant atheism.
IOW, he equated them.
I realize that that is rhetoric, not all atheists are communists, but
all Communists are by definition atheists.
*Those* atheists, and some other atheists that defined themselves as
socialists were responsible for the death of hundreds of millions.

One imagines you are
referring to such people as Stalin, who did not describe himself as a
militant atheist but as a Communist, or Hitler, who described himself
as a Christian, or Mao, who described himself as a Communist. Do you
have anything to offer beyond your lies?

Actually, you just confirmed what I said.

Please do not claim that
Communism and atheism are the same. I am an atheist, but I am not a
Communist. Your lies are so silly, one suspects that you tell them
just to be annoying; it is hard to believe that you could really be
stupid enough to believe them.

I can understand your embarassment at being caught in the same bed with
mass murderers, but it is still reality. Deal with it. "Atheists" have
no moral high ground, which is the original point of contention.
How could they? They have no basis for a real morality. Without a
transcendent authority, it is just your opinion against mine, and how
much stronger a use of force I can bring.





Atheism is simply a lack of belief in
deities. Nothing more. It is not a belief system, it is not a
philosophy, it is not a way of life, and above all it is not a
religion



Calling a belief "a lack of belief" doesn't make it any less a belief.

Belief system? I can find you scads of websites delineating a common
belief system of atheisitic materialists.


Which would be immaterial. Atheism itself is not a system of any
kind, no matter how many systems include atheism.

There are no atheists that have no belief system.

The word describes
the lack of a belief in a god. A system has to contain at least two
elements. Just because some people make atheism a part of their
systems does not make atheism itself a system. Let's see if you can
grasp that concept.





Now, get your tiny-minded, bigoted, lying ***** out of alt.atheism
before you lose yet another account.



Unwillingness to discuss or even tolerate the posting of an article to
alt.atheism that says atheism is waning, would make you the very
poster-boy of bigotry and tiny-mindedness. Seems to me that an article
on atheism would be very on-topic to alt.atheism. You have made
yourself a laughingstock.


You are the one telling obvious lies, lies that have been pointed out
as lies literally thousands of times. If you are not actually lying,
you are incapable of learning. Either way you have made yourself
appear to be either a fool or a very adolescent person who enjoys
being an *****.

The typical adolescent argument would be to start jumping up and down
and emotionally screaming liar, liar, while cursing and calling the
person that disagrees with you a fool, and telling them to get out
because you don't want to hear them anymore. That would be you.
The only thing missing is to actually see you sticking your fingers in
your ears and shouting "Nah, nah, nah, nah, nah, I'm not
liiiisssteninnnng! Nah, Nah, Nah, I'm not...."
.
User: ""

Title: Re: WorldTies: Analysis: Atheism worldwide in decline 08 Mar 2005 03:11:54 AM
Eric wrote:

In article <bbjl21hbs7ckjiiesmhrcddia96jvb7nb2@4ax.com>, thomas p
<tonyofbexarnospam@yahoo.dk> wrote:

On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 10:45:18 +0900, Eric <lb@nospam.com> wrote:

In article <igsj21dh7fls2u97o4u00p1q93adpe8kt3@4ax.com>, John

Baker

<nunya@bizniz.net> wrote:

On Sat, 5 Mar 2005 10:49:26 -0500, "Damian J. Anderson"
<Damian.Anderson@gmail.com> wrote:


Come on, it was a news article. Grow up. If the ideology of

atheism is

losing power and showing its moral bankruptcy, it is a good

thing.

Atheistic
materialism / Marxism Leninism / scientific socialism is

responsible for

over a hundred million dead in the 20th century.


Fucking liar.

It cannot claim any moral high ground.


Nor does it, nor has it ever.



Many atheists try to. Maybe you don't.

Oh, wait a minute. You just did, by trying to deny those who

defined

themselves as militant atheists role in the deaths of hundreds of
millions during the 20th century.


"Militant atheists"? There is no such thing.


Lenin: Communism is militant atheism.

IOW, he equated them.

I realize that that is rhetoric, not all atheists are communists, but
all Communists are by definition atheists.

All that believed were together, and had all things in common; And sold
their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man
had need. (Acts 2:44-45)
com=B7mu=B7nism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kmy-nzm)
n=2E
A theoretical economic system characterized by the collective ownership
of property and by the organization of labor for the common advantage
of all members.
Hmmmmmmmmm.... so, the communist first Christians were actually
atheists?
.
User: "Eric"

Title: Re: WorldTies: Analysis: Atheism worldwide in decline 08 Mar 2005 09:11:21 AM
In article <1110273114.207881.293790@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
<Donalbain@gmail.com> wrote:

Eric wrote:

In article <bbjl21hbs7ckjiiesmhrcddia96jvb7nb2@4ax.com>, thomas p
<tonyofbexarnospam@yahoo.dk> wrote:

On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 10:45:18 +0900, Eric <lb@nospam.com> wrote:

In article <igsj21dh7fls2u97o4u00p1q93adpe8kt3@4ax.com>, John

Baker

<nunya@bizniz.net> wrote:

On Sat, 5 Mar 2005 10:49:26 -0500, "Damian J. Anderson"
<Damian.Anderson@gmail.com> wrote:


Come on, it was a news article. Grow up. If the ideology of

atheism is

losing power and showing its moral bankruptcy, it is a good

thing.

Atheistic
materialism / Marxism Leninism / scientific socialism is

responsible for

over a hundred million dead in the 20th century.


Fucking liar.

It cannot claim any moral high ground.


Nor does it, nor has it ever.



Many atheists try to. Maybe you don't.

Oh, wait a minute. You just did, by trying to deny those who

defined

themselves as militant atheists role in the deaths of hundreds of
millions during the 20th century.


"Militant atheists"? There is no such thing.


Lenin: Communism is militant atheism.

IOW, he equated them.

I realize that that is rhetoric, not all atheists are communists, but
all Communists are by definition atheists.


All that believed were together, and had all things in common; And sold
their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every man
had need. (Acts 2:44-45)


com·mu·nism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kmy-nzm)
n.
A theoretical economic system characterized by the collective ownership
of property and by the organization of labor for the common advantage
of all members.



Hmmmmmmmmm.... so, the communist first Christians were actually
atheists?

What I see is you doing everything you can to deny that Communism is
defined by Marx and Engels and after them, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol Pot,
Kim Sungil, Fidel Castro, etc. The religious socialists that believe
that Jesus was a communist, are seen by the Communists as dupes to be
manipulated by them as long as they are useful and to be eradicated as
an evil blight when they are no longer useful.
Despite the temporary communalism of the early disciples, there is
little evidence in Jesus' teachings that he was a communist or a
socialist.


.
User: ""

Title: Re: WorldTies: Analysis: Atheism worldwide in decline 08 Mar 2005 10:48:44 AM
Eric wrote:

In article <1110273114.207881.293790@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
<Donalbain@gmail.com> wrote:

Eric wrote:

In article <bbjl21hbs7ckjiiesmhrcddia96jvb7nb2@4ax.com>, thomas p
<tonyofbexarnospam@yahoo.dk> wrote:

On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 10:45:18 +0900, Eric <lb@nospam.com> wrote:

In article <igsj21dh7fls2u97o4u00p1q93adpe8kt3@4ax.com>, John

Baker

<nunya@bizniz.net> wrote:

On Sat, 5 Mar 2005 10:49:26 -0500, "Damian J. Anderson"
<Damian.Anderson@gmail.com> wrote:


Come on, it was a news article. Grow up. If the ideology of

atheism is

losing power and showing its moral bankruptcy, it is a good

thing.

Atheistic
materialism / Marxism Leninism / scientific socialism is

responsible for

over a hundred million dead in the 20th century.


Fucking liar.

It cannot claim any moral high ground.


Nor does it, nor has it ever.



Many atheists try to. Maybe you don't.

Oh, wait a minute. You just did, by trying to deny those who

defined

themselves as militant atheists role in the deaths of hundreds

of

millions during the 20th century.


"Militant atheists"? There is no such thing.


Lenin: Communism is militant atheism.

IOW, he equated them.

I realize that that is rhetoric, not all atheists are communists,

but

all Communists are by definition atheists.


All that believed were together, and had all things in common; And

sold

their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every

man

had need. (Acts 2:44-45)


com=B7mu=B7nism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kmy-nzm)
n.
A theoretical economic system characterized by the collective

ownership

of property and by the organization of labor for the common

advantage

of all members.



Hmmmmmmmmm.... so, the communist first Christians were actually
atheists?


What I see is you doing everything you can to deny that Communism is
defined by Marx and Engels and after them, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol

Pot,

Kim Sungil, Fidel Castro, etc. The religious socialists that believe
that Jesus was a communist, are seen by the Communists as dupes to be
manipulated by them as long as they are useful and to be eradicated

as

an evil blight when they are no longer useful.

Indeed. Those people did not define communism, they defined, Marxism,
Leninism, Stalinism, Maoism and the like. Communism had beeen around as
an idea for hundreds and hundreds of years before them.

Despite the temporary communalism of the early disciples, there is
little evidence in Jesus' teachings that he was a communist or a
socialist.

Except the part about the disciples holding all property in common=3D,
which is how one defines communism.
.
User: "Eric"

Title: Re: WorldTies: Analysis: Atheism worldwide in decline 08 Mar 2005 05:24:33 PM
In article <1110300524.422375.130100@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
<Donalbain@gmail.com> wrote:

Eric wrote:

In article <1110273114.207881.293790@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
<Donalbain@gmail.com> wrote:

Eric wrote:

In article <bbjl21hbs7ckjiiesmhrcddia96jvb7nb2@4ax.com>, thomas p
<tonyofbexarnospam@yahoo.dk> wrote:

On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 10:45:18 +0900, Eric <lb@nospam.com> wrote:

In article <igsj21dh7fls2u97o4u00p1q93adpe8kt3@4ax.com>, John

Baker

<nunya@bizniz.net> wrote:

On Sat, 5 Mar 2005 10:49:26 -0500, "Damian J. Anderson"
<Damian.Anderson@gmail.com> wrote:


Come on, it was a news article. Grow up. If the ideology of

atheism is

losing power and showing its moral bankruptcy, it is a good

thing.

Atheistic
materialism / Marxism Leninism / scientific socialism is

responsible for

over a hundred million dead in the 20th century.


Fucking liar.

It cannot claim any moral high ground.


Nor does it, nor has it ever.



Many atheists try to. Maybe you don't.

Oh, wait a minute. You just did, by trying to deny those who

defined

themselves as militant atheists role in the deaths of hundreds

of

millions during the 20th century.


"Militant atheists"? There is no such thing.


Lenin: Communism is militant atheism.

IOW, he equated them.

I realize that that is rhetoric, not all atheists are communists,

but

all Communists are by definition atheists.


All that believed were together, and had all things in common; And

sold

their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every

man

had need. (Acts 2:44-45)


com·mu·nism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kmy-nzm)
n.
A theoretical economic system characterized by the collective

ownership

of property and by the organization of labor for the common

advantage

of all members.



Hmmmmmmmmm.... so, the communist first Christians were actually
atheists?


What I see is you doing everything you can to deny that Communism is
defined by Marx and Engels and after them, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol

Pot,

Kim Sungil, Fidel Castro, etc. The religious socialists that believe
that Jesus was a communist, are seen by the Communists as dupes to be
manipulated by them as long as they are useful and to be eradicated

as

an evil blight when they are no longer useful.


Indeed. Those people did not define communism, they defined, Marxism,

And called themselves Communists, and defined the true Communist as an
atheist, and called all religion and a belief in God, a moral evil that
should and would be eradicated.
As do many non-Communist atheists too.

Leninism, Stalinism, Maoism and the like. Communism had beeen around as
an idea for hundreds and hundreds of years before them.

Despite the temporary communalism of the early disciples, there is
little evidence in Jesus' teachings that he was a communist or a
socialist.


Except the part about the disciples holding all property in common=,
which is how one defines communism.

.

User: "Eric"

Title: Re: WorldTies: Analysis: Atheism worldwide in decline 08 Mar 2005 05:25:55 PM
In article <1110300524.422375.130100@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
<Donalbain@gmail.com> wrote:

Eric wrote:

In article <1110273114.207881.293790@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
<Donalbain@gmail.com> wrote:

Eric wrote:

In article <bbjl21hbs7ckjiiesmhrcddia96jvb7nb2@4ax.com>, thomas p
<tonyofbexarnospam@yahoo.dk> wrote:

On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 10:45:18 +0900, Eric <lb@nospam.com> wrote:

In article <igsj21dh7fls2u97o4u00p1q93adpe8kt3@4ax.com>, John

Baker

<nunya@bizniz.net> wrote:

On Sat, 5 Mar 2005 10:49:26 -0500, "Damian J. Anderson"
<Damian.Anderson@gmail.com> wrote:


Come on, it was a news article. Grow up. If the ideology of

atheism is

losing power and showing its moral bankruptcy, it is a good

thing.

Atheistic
materialism / Marxism Leninism / scientific socialism is

responsible for

over a hundred million dead in the 20th century.


Fucking liar.

It cannot claim any moral high ground.


Nor does it, nor has it ever.



Many atheists try to. Maybe you don't.

Oh, wait a minute. You just did, by trying to deny those who

defined

themselves as militant atheists role in the deaths of hundreds

of

millions during the 20th century.


"Militant atheists"? There is no such thing.


Lenin: Communism is militant atheism.

IOW, he equated them.

I realize that that is rhetoric, not all atheists are communists,

but

all Communists are by definition atheists.


All that believed were together, and had all things in common; And

sold

their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as every

man

had need. (Acts 2:44-45)


com·mu·nism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kmy-nzm)
n.
A theoretical economic system characterized by the collective

ownership

of property and by the organization of labor for the common

advantage

of all members.



Hmmmmmmmmm.... so, the communist first Christians were actually
atheists?


What I see is you doing everything you can to deny that Communism is
defined by Marx and Engels and after them, Lenin, Stalin, Mao, Pol

Pot,

Kim Sungil, Fidel Castro, etc. The religious socialists that believe
that Jesus was a communist, are seen by the Communists as dupes to be
manipulated by them as long as they are useful and to be eradicated

as

an evil blight when they are no longer useful.


Indeed. Those people did not define communism, they defined, Marxism,
Leninism, Stalinism, Maoism and the like. Communism had beeen around as
an idea for hundreds and hundreds of years before them.

Despite the temporary communalism of the early disciples, there is
little evidence in Jesus' teachings that he was a communist or a
socialist.


Except the part about the disciples holding all property in common=,
which is how one defines communism.

BTW are you one who supports communism?


.
User: ""

Title: Re: WorldTies: Analysis: Atheism worldwide in decline 09 Mar 2005 02:43:02 AM
Eric wrote:

In article <1110300524.422375.130100@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
<Donalbain@gmail.com> wrote:

Eric wrote:

In article

<1110273114.207881.293790@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,

<Donalbain@gmail.com> wrote:

Eric wrote:

In article <bbjl21hbs7ckjiiesmhrcddia96jvb7nb2@4ax.com>,

thomas p

<tonyofbexarnospam@yahoo.dk> wrote:

On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 10:45:18 +0900, Eric <lb@nospam.com>

wrote:


In article <igsj21dh7fls2u97o4u00p1q93adpe8kt3@4ax.com>,

John

Baker

<nunya@bizniz.net> wrote:

On Sat, 5 Mar 2005 10:49:26 -0500, "Damian J. Anderson"
<Damian.Anderson@gmail.com> wrote:


Come on, it was a news article. Grow up. If the

ideology of

atheism is

losing power and showing its moral bankruptcy, it is a

good

thing.

Atheistic
materialism / Marxism Leninism / scientific socialism

is

responsible for

over a hundred million dead in the 20th century.


Fucking liar.

It cannot claim any moral high ground.


Nor does it, nor has it ever.



Many atheists try to. Maybe you don't.

Oh, wait a minute. You just did, by trying to deny those

who

defined

themselves as militant atheists role in the deaths of

hundreds

of

millions during the 20th century.


"Militant atheists"? There is no such thing.


Lenin: Communism is militant atheism.

IOW, he equated them.

I realize that that is rhetoric, not all atheists are

communists,

but

all Communists are by definition atheists.


All that believed were together, and had all things in common;

And

sold

their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as

every

man

had need. (Acts 2:44-45)


com=B7mu=B7nism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kmy-nzm)
n.
A theoretical economic system characterized by the collective

ownership

of property and by the organization of labor for the common

advantage

of all members.



Hmmmmmmmmm.... so, the communist first Christians were actually
atheists?


What I see is you doing everything you can to deny that Communism

is

defined by Marx and Engels and after them, Lenin, Stalin, Mao,

Pol

Pot,

Kim Sungil, Fidel Castro, etc. The religious socialists that

believe

that Jesus was a communist, are seen by the Communists as dupes

to be

manipulated by them as long as they are useful and to be

eradicated

as

an evil blight when they are no longer useful.


Indeed. Those people did not define communism, they defined,

Marxism,

Leninism, Stalinism, Maoism and the like. Communism had beeen

around as

an idea for hundreds and hundreds of years before them.

Despite the temporary communalism of the early disciples, there

is

little evidence in Jesus' teachings that he was a communist or a
socialist.


Except the part about the disciples holding all property in

common=3D,

which is how one defines communism.


BTW are you one who supports communism?

No. I am in favour of a mixed market, with socialism and capitalism.
.
User: "Eric"

Title: Re: WorldTies: Analysis: Atheism worldwide in decline 09 Mar 2005 04:14:29 AM
In article <1110357782.059824.324680@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
<Donalbain@gmail.com> wrote:

Eric wrote:

In article <1110300524.422375.130100@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
<Donalbain@gmail.com> wrote:

Eric wrote:

In article

<1110273114.207881.293790@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,

<Donalbain@gmail.com> wrote:

Eric wrote:

In article <bbjl21hbs7ckjiiesmhrcddia96jvb7nb2@4ax.com>,

thomas p

<tonyofbexarnospam@yahoo.dk> wrote:

On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 10:45:18 +0900, Eric <lb@nospam.com>

wrote:


In article <igsj21dh7fls2u97o4u00p1q93adpe8kt3@4ax.com>,

John

Baker

<nunya@bizniz.net> wrote:

On Sat, 5 Mar 2005 10:49:26 -0500, "Damian J. Anderson"
<Damian.Anderson@gmail.com> wrote:


Come on, it was a news article. Grow up. If the

ideology of

atheism is

losing power and showing its moral bankruptcy, it is a

good

thing.

Atheistic
materialism / Marxism Leninism / scientific socialism

is

responsible for

over a hundred million dead in the 20th century.


Fucking liar.

It cannot claim any moral high ground.


Nor does it, nor has it ever.



Many atheists try to. Maybe you don't.

Oh, wait a minute. You just did, by trying to deny those

who

defined

themselves as militant atheists role in the deaths of

hundreds

of

millions during the 20th century.


"Militant atheists"? There is no such thing.


Lenin: Communism is militant atheism.

IOW, he equated them.

I realize that that is rhetoric, not all atheists are

communists,

but

all Communists are by definition atheists.


All that believed were together, and had all things in common;

And

sold

their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as

every

man

had need. (Acts 2:44-45)


com·mu·nism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kmy-nzm)
n.
A theoretical economic system characterized by the collective

ownership

of property and by the organization of labor for the common

advantage

of all members.



Hmmmmmmmmm.... so, the communist first Christians were actually
atheists?


What I see is you doing everything you can to deny that Communism

is

defined by Marx and Engels and after them, Lenin, Stalin, Mao,

Pol

Pot,

Kim Sungil, Fidel Castro, etc. The religious socialists that

believe

that Jesus was a communist, are seen by the Communists as dupes

to be

manipulated by them as long as they are useful and to be

eradicated

as

an evil blight when they are no longer useful.


Indeed. Those people did not define communism, they defined,

Marxism,

Leninism, Stalinism, Maoism and the like. Communism had beeen

around as

an idea for hundreds and hundreds of years before them.

Despite the temporary communalism of the early disciples, there

is

little evidence in Jesus' teachings that he was a communist or a
socialist.


Except the part about the disciples holding all property in

common=,

which is how one defines communism.


BTW are you one who supports communism?


No. I am in favour of a mixed market, with socialism and capitalism.

So who has the best mix between Singapore, America, Israel, South
Korea, Brazil, Beijing and North Korea?
.
User: ""

Title: Re: WorldTies: Analysis: Atheism worldwide in decline 09 Mar 2005 05:07:41 AM
Eric wrote:

In article <1110357782.059824.324680@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
<Donalbain@gmail.com> wrote:

Eric wrote:

In article

<1110300524.422375.130100@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,

<Donalbain@gmail.com> wrote:

Eric wrote:

In article

<1110273114.207881.293790@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,

<Donalbain@gmail.com> wrote:

Eric wrote:

In article <bbjl21hbs7ckjiiesmhrcddia96jvb7nb2@4ax.com>,

thomas p

<tonyofbexarnospam@yahoo.dk> wrote:

On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 10:45:18 +0900, Eric

<lb@nospam.com>

wrote:


In article

<igsj21dh7fls2u97o4u00p1q93adpe8kt3@4ax.com>,

John

Baker

<nunya@bizniz.net> wrote:

On Sat, 5 Mar 2005 10:49:26 -0500, "Damian J.

Anderson"

<Damian.Anderson@gmail.com> wrote:


Come on, it was a news article. Grow up. If the

ideology of

atheism is

losing power and showing its moral bankruptcy, it

is a

good

thing.

Atheistic
materialism / Marxism Leninism / scientific

socialism

is

responsible for

over a hundred million dead in the 20th century.


Fucking liar.

It cannot claim any moral high ground.


Nor does it, nor has it ever.



Many atheists try to. Maybe you don't.

Oh, wait a minute. You just did, by trying to deny

those

who

defined

themselves as militant atheists role in the deaths of

hundreds

of

millions during the 20th century.


"Militant atheists"? There is no such thing.


Lenin: Communism is militant atheism.

IOW, he equated them.

I realize that that is rhetoric, not all atheists are

communists,

but

all Communists are by definition atheists.


All that believed were together, and had all things in

common;

And

sold

their possessions and goods, and parted them to all men, as

every

man

had need. (Acts 2:44-45)


com=B7mu=B7nism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (kmy-nzm)
n.
A theoretical economic system characterized by the

collective

ownership

of property and by the organization of labor for the common

advantage

of all members.



Hmmmmmmmmm.... so, the communist first Christians were

actually

atheists?


What I see is you doing everything you can to deny that

Communism

is

defined by Marx and Engels and after them, Lenin, Stalin,

Mao,

Pol

Pot,

Kim Sungil, Fidel Castro, etc. The religious socialists that

believe

that Jesus was a communist, are seen by the Communists as

dupes

to be

manipulated by them as long as they are useful and to be

eradicated

as

an evil blight when they are no longer useful.


Indeed. Those people did not define communism, they defined,

Marxism,

Leninism, Stalinism, Maoism and the like. Communism had beeen

around as

an idea for hundreds and hundreds of years before them.

Despite the temporary communalism of the early disciples,

there

is

little evidence in Jesus' teachings that he was a communist

or a

socialist.


Except the part about the disciples holding all property in

common=3D,

which is how one defines communism.


BTW are you one who supports communism?


No. I am in favour of a mixed market, with socialism and

capitalism.



So who has the best mix between Singapore,

Not a fan of one party states with oppresive regimes so not a fan of
Singapore.

America,

Not really. If you dont have a universal healthcare, then in my opinion
you arent yet a civilised nation.

Israel,

In understand they have a pretty hefty set of welfare systems, but I
dont know in detail.

South Korea,

I know nothing of their economic policies

Brazil,

Dont know much about them either.

Beijing and North Korea?

None of those.
.
User: "Eric"

Title: Re: WorldTies: Analysis: Atheism worldwide in decline 09 Mar 2005 09:39:44 AM
In article <1110366461.669166.202680@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>,
<Donalbain@gmail.com> wrote:

Eric wrote:

In article <1110357782.059824.324680@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
<Donalbain@gmail.com> wrote:

Eric wrote:

In article

<1110300524.422375.130100@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,

<Donalbain@gmail.com> wrote:

Eric wrote:

In article

<1110273114.207881.293790@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,

<Donalbain@gmail.com> wrote:

Eric wrote:

In article <bbjl21hbs7ckjiiesmhrcddia96jvb7nb2@4ax.com>,

thomas p

<tonyofbexarnospam@yahoo.dk> wrote:

On Sun, 06 Mar 2005 10:45:18 +0900, Eric

<lb@nospam.com>