| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"josh" |
| Date: |
14 Sep 2007 03:57:20 PM |
| Object: |
Worshipping God |
Two Jehovah's witnesses - a couple of blokes this time - came to my front
door this morning. They brought up the question of natural disaster, which
led quickly to how much God cares for his people. It was at this point that
I said to the witnesses, quite without careful consideration of the possible
interpretations:
'You worship God, but God does not worship you.'
What do you think is implied in that statement?
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Worshipping God |
14 Sep 2007 07:07:45 PM |
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On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 21:57:20 +0100, "josh"
<jillywoods@abcjillywoods.karoo.co.uk> wrote:
Two Jehovah's witnesses - a couple of blokes this time - came to my front
door this morning. They brought up the question of natural disaster, which
led quickly to how much God cares for his people. It was at this point that
I said to the witnesses, quite without careful consideration of the possible
interpretations:
'You worship God, but God does not worship you.'
What do you think is implied in that statement?
That a god really exists.
It clearly implies that the utterer is a mental infant.
.
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| User: "josh" |
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| Title: Re: Worshipping God |
15 Sep 2007 04:33:48 PM |
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"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:dh8me39besmtj1lbmj4h2ouhgrrqn25osv@4ax.com...
On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 21:57:20 +0100, "josh"
<jillywoods@abcjillywoods.karoo.co.uk> wrote:
Two Jehovah's witnesses - a couple of blokes this time - came to my front
door this morning. They brought up the question of natural disaster, which
led quickly to how much God cares for his people. It was at this point
that
I said to the witnesses, quite without careful consideration of the
possible
interpretations:
'You worship God, but God does not worship you.'
What do you think is implied in that statement?
That a god really exists.
It clearly implies that the utterer is a mental infant.
Thanks Michael for your reply. I don't see your reasoning unfortunately,
being (maybe) a mental infant. I would put this point though out of my cot:
Believers do worship their god but I don't know why they do, because God,
being what he is, surely doesn't need it. Is it just to express gratitude?
That would be thanks rather than worship. Being all powerful, God can do
anything he likes with no effort, so he certainly doesn't need to be
congratulated.
So does he worship his creation, humankind? He created them with no effort,
but does he at least value them? He won't worship them because he is more
admirable than they are.
I don't know why I am considering all this really, seeing as God clearly
doesn't exist.
.
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| User: "Michael Gray" |
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| Title: Re: Worshipping God |
15 Sep 2007 07:03:24 PM |
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On Sat, 15 Sep 2007 22:33:48 +0100, "josh"
<jillywoods@abcjillywoods.karoo.co.uk> wrote:
"Michael Gray" <mikegray@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:dh8me39besmtj1lbmj4h2ouhgrrqn25osv@4ax.com...
On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 21:57:20 +0100, "josh"
<jillywoods@abcjillywoods.karoo.co.uk> wrote:
Two Jehovah's witnesses - a couple of blokes this time - came to my front
door this morning. They brought up the question of natural disaster, which
led quickly to how much God cares for his people. It was at this point
that
I said to the witnesses, quite without careful consideration of the
possible
interpretations:
'You worship God, but God does not worship you.'
What do you think is implied in that statement?
That a god really exists.
It clearly implies that the utterer is a mental infant.
Thanks Michael for your reply. I don't see your reasoning unfortunately,
being (maybe) a mental infant. I would put this point though out of my cot:
Believers do worship their god but I don't know why they do, because God,
There you go again.
Assuming that there is such a thing as a god.
Assuming that it is in the singular.
In all of human history, not a single person has produced a single bit
of evidence for there god(s)
No-one has even been able to coherently define the god of Abraham to
date.
Until they do both, it is mental infancy to blithely assume that there
is such a thing.
being what he is, surely doesn't need it. Is it just to express gratitude?
That would be thanks rather than worship. Being all powerful, God can do
anything he likes with no effort, so he certainly doesn't need to be
congratulated.
So does he worship his creation, humankind? He created them with no effort,
but does he at least value them? He won't worship them because he is more
admirable than they are.
I don't know why I am considering all this really, seeing as God clearly
doesn't exist.
Q.E.D.
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| User: "Gabriel" |
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| Title: Re: Worshipping God |
15 Sep 2007 08:51:58 PM |
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On Sep 15, 5:33 pm, "josh" <jillywo...@abcjillywoods.karoo.co.uk>
wrote:
"Michael Gray" <mikeg...@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:dh8me39besmtj1lbmj4h2ouhgrrqn25osv@4ax.com...
On Fri, 14 Sep 2007 21:57:20 +0100, "josh"
<jillywo...@abcjillywoods.karoo.co.uk> wrote:
Two Jehovah's witnesses - a couple of blokes this time - came to my front
door this morning. They brought up the question of natural disaster, which
led quickly to how much God cares for his people. It was at this point
that
I said to the witnesses, quite without careful consideration of the
possible
interpretations:
'You worship God, but God does not worship you.'
What do you think is implied in that statement?
That a god really exists.
It clearly implies that the utterer is a mental infant.
Thanks Michael for your reply. I don't see your reasoning unfortunately,
being (maybe) a mental infant. I would put this point though out of my cot:
Believers do worship their god but I don't know why they do, because God,
being what he is, surely doesn't need it. Is it just to express gratitude?
That would be thanks rather than worship. Being all powerful, God can do
anything he likes with no effort, so he certainly doesn't need to be
congratulated.
So does he worship his creation, humankind? He created them with no effort,
but does he at least value them? He won't worship them because he is more
admirable than they are.
I don't know why I am considering all this really, seeing as God clearly
doesn't exist.
Hi Josh,
What is it that leads you to believe with complete certainty God
doesn't exist, rather than merely having the opinion that He doesn't?
- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
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| User: "Enkidu" |
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| Title: Re: Worshipping God |
15 Sep 2007 08:57:54 PM |
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Gabriel <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1189907518.292872.196100@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com:
I don't know why I am considering all this really, seeing as God clearly
doesn't exist.
Hi Josh,
What is it that leads you to believe with complete certainty God
doesn't exist, rather than merely having the opinion that He doesn't?
The same way we know with complete certainty that the Easter Bunny, Santa
Claus, and the Great Pumpkin don't exist.
--
Enkidu AA#2165
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
"The constitution does not provide for first and second class citizens."
-Wendell Willkie
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| User: "Gabriel" |
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| Title: Re: Worshipping God |
15 Sep 2007 09:05:34 PM |
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On Sep 15, 9:57 pm, Enkidu <fox_rgf...@trashmail.net> wrote:
Gabriel <gabriel_bapt...@hotmail.com> wrote innews:1189907518.292872.196100@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com:
I don't know why I am considering all this really, seeing as God clearly
doesn't exist.
Hi Josh,
What is it that leads you to believe with complete certainty God
doesn't exist, rather than merely having the opinion that He doesn't?
The same way we know with complete certainty that the Easter Bunny, Santa
Claus, and the Great Pumpkin don't exist.
No adult in existance claims any of those things you brought up really
exist, as opposed to just being stories they tell their children. But
billions of adults admit that God exists.
God also gave us His inspired written Word about Him; He sent his only
begotten son physically to live and willingly suffer and die for us
2,000 years ago; He created the world we live in; He changes people
from the inside out the moment they call on Him to save them.
So the comparison you offered is really a meaningless one.
So again, how do you know for certainty that God doesn't exist?
--
Enkidu AA#2165
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
"The constitution does not provide for first and second class citizens."
-Wendell Willkie
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| User: "Andrew W" |
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| Title: Re: Worshipping God |
15 Sep 2007 09:56:57 PM |
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"Gabriel" <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1189908334.477503.185560@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 15, 9:57 pm, Enkidu <fox_rgf...@trashmail.net> wrote:
Gabriel <gabriel_bapt...@hotmail.com> wrote
innews:1189907518.292872.196100@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com:
I don't know why I am considering all this really, seeing as God
clearly
doesn't exist.
Hi Josh,
What is it that leads you to believe with complete certainty God
doesn't exist, rather than merely having the opinion that He doesn't?
The same way we know with complete certainty that the Easter Bunny, Santa
Claus, and the Great Pumpkin don't exist.
No adult in existance claims any of those things you brought up really
exist, as opposed to just being stories they tell their children. But
billions of adults admit that God exists.
God also gave us His inspired written Word about Him;
Did he?
You believe this just because of the one or two ambiguous verses in your
book that suggest this?
He sent his only
begotten son physically to live and willingly suffer and die for us
2,000 years ago; He created the world we live in; He changes people
from the inside out the moment they call on Him to save them.
Why are you so keen to believe in a version of God who is always angry and
extremely legalistic like a human, but to the point where someone has to die
to curb his own anger?
Why can't your version of God control his emotions?
Can't you see how ridiculous and immature this kind of God is?
Maybe your religion has completely misunderstood him.
--
Andrew W.
Jesus said that we must search everywhere for the truth, that we must leave
no stone unturned.
How naive and foolish is the man who thinks he can get all the answers to
life from one convenient book.
What we are told God and Jesus said, they did not say.
http://www.divinelove.org/volume1/Mission.htm
TABLE OF CONTENTS. Must read!
http://www.divinelove.org/revnt/Rev-TOC-title.htm
The true Creator wants us to be happy and abundant.
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/The_Science_of_Getting_Rich
Audio version. http://website.lineone.net/~cornerstone/richaudio.htm
Think you know what ego is? Think again. The Bible is full of it!
http://www.acim.org/
Religion Exposed!
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~ajwerner
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| User: "Enkidu" |
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| Title: Re: Worshipping God |
15 Sep 2007 11:10:35 PM |
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Gabriel <gabriel_baptist@hotmail.com> wrote in
news:1189908334.477503.185560@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com:
On Sep 15, 9:57 pm, Enkidu <fox_rgf...@trashmail.net> wrote:
Gabriel <gabriel_bapt...@hotmail.com> wrote
innews:1189907518.292872.196100@k79g2000hse.googlegroups.com:
I don't know why I am considering all this really, seeing as God
clearly doesn't exist.
Hi Josh,
What is it that leads you to believe with complete certainty God
doesn't exist, rather than merely having the opinion that He
doesn't?
The same way we know with complete certainty that the Easter Bunny,
Santa Claus, and the Great Pumpkin don't exist.
No adult in existance claims any of those things you brought up really
exist, as opposed to just being stories they tell their children. But
billions of adults admit that God exists.
And they also used to say Thor and Wotan existed, Zeus and Mars, etc. To
quote Russell, "If fifty million people believe a stupid thing, it's
still a stupid thing."
--
Enkidu AA#2165
EAC Chaplain and ordained minister,
ULC, Modesto, CA
Most of the greatest evils that man has inflicted upon man have come
through people feeling quite certain about something which, in fact, was
false.
-- Bertrand Russell
.
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