| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Uncle Clover" |
| Date: |
31 Mar 2007 08:45:50 AM |
| Object: |
Would you die for them? |
To the theists of the group: If a sinner would be saved through your
death, would you consent to dying?
Those who know they would, welcome.
Those who don't, or who know they wouldn't, *****, hypocrite.
.
|
|
| User: "Jim07D7" |
|
| Title: Re: Would you die for them? |
31 Mar 2007 09:07:04 AM |
|
|
Uncle Clover <UncleClover@NowhereNow.com> said:
To the theists of the group: If a sinner would be saved through your
death, would you consent to dying?
Those who know they would, welcome.
Those who don't, or who know they wouldn't, *****, hypocrite.
If only it were that simple.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian" |
|
| Title: Re: Would you die for them? |
31 Mar 2007 11:58:47 AM |
|
|
Uncle Clover:
To the theists of the group: If a sinner would be saved through your
death, would you consent to dying?
Umm... there are theists whose faiths have no concept of "sin"... ;)
That said, I wouldn't rule out dying for another person, but it would depend
on the circumstances and I'd probably decide pretty spontaneously.
--
"To his friend a man a friend shall prove, and gifts with gifts requite;
But men shall mocking with mockery answer, and fraud with falsehood meet."
(The Poetic Edda)
Must have been written with fundies in mind...
My personal judgment of monotheism:
http://www.carcosa.de/nojebus
.
|
|
|
| User: "Lisbeth Andersson" |
|
| Title: Re: Would you die for them? |
31 Mar 2007 12:38:58 PM |
|
|
"Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian" <MAILTOsecretary@carcosa.de> wrote
in news:eum40a$blr$1@online.de:
Uncle Clover:
To the theists of the group: If a sinner would be saved through
your death, would you consent to dying?
Umm... there are theists whose faiths have no concept of "sin"...
;)
And "saved" is probably another concept that your religion doesn't
recognize.
That said, I wouldn't rule out dying for another person, but it
would depend on the circumstances and I'd probably decide pretty
spontaneously.
In your case the question could be formulated as: If your death would
give an atheist/christian/buddhist/... another chance to end up in
Valhalla or Folkvang would you give them that chance? Would the answer
depend on if your death was through battle or through some other
means? If the other person's imminent death was in battle, would your
answer be different?
Lisbeth.
----
The day I don't learn anything new is the day I die.
*What we know is not nearly as interesting as *how we know it.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian" |
|
| Title: Re: Would you die for them? |
31 Mar 2007 11:23:41 PM |
|
|
Lisbeth Andersson:
In your case the question could be formulated as: If your death would
give an atheist/christian/buddhist/... another chance to end up in
Valhalla or Folkvang would you give them that chance?
As I see it, getting to Valhalla would be a question of whether you have, to
get pathetic for a moment ;), "the heart, mind and soul of a warrior". In
other words, I wouldn't be able to exert any influence on where that other
person ends up anyway. :)
(Not exactly like it's told in the sagas, but then, the sagas don't claim to
be literal truth anyway. The only "literal truth" in there is in the term
"saga" 8) )
Would the answer
depend on if your death was through battle or through some other
means?
I would definitely prefer to die fighting for a just and good cause if I had
the choice - or at least die weapon in hand, if just for proper
appearance. ;)
Whether this would influence my decision "do I want to die for this one?" I
cannot tell in advance. After all, I don't lust for war just for the sake
of it. Peace generally is _much_ more comfortable for everyone involved. :)
If the other person's imminent death was in battle, would your
answer be different?
Possibly. It could surely make a difference if I knew that the other person
wants to die that way.
(Why she would want that is another question. I wouldn't just assume it's
like that, I'd have to know for sure)
Like I said, all a matter of circumstance.
--
"To his friend a man a friend shall prove, and gifts with gifts requite;
But men shall mocking with mockery answer, and fraud with falsehood meet."
(The Poetic Edda)
Must have been written with fundies in mind...
My personal judgment of monotheism:
http://www.carcosa.de/nojebus
.
|
|
|
| User: "Lisbeth Andersson" |
|
| Title: Re: Would you die for them? |
01 Apr 2007 11:26:28 AM |
|
|
"Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian" <MAILTOsecretary@carcosa.de> wrote
in news:eunc4g$209$1@online.de:
Lisbeth Andersson:
In your case the question could be formulated as: If your death
would give an atheist/christian/buddhist/... another chance to
end up in Valhalla or Folkvang would you give them that chance?
As I see it, getting to Valhalla would be a question of whether
you have, to get pathetic for a moment ;), "the heart, mind and
soul of a warrior". In other words, I wouldn't be able to exert
any influence on where that other person ends up anyway. :)
I'm getting curious. What is your opinion on life after death? (And,
yes, mind your own business is a perfectly good answer.)
(Not exactly like it's told in the sagas, but then, the sagas
don't claim to be literal truth anyway. The only "literal truth"
in there is in the term "saga" 8) )
And since the term "saga" has differemt connotations depending on
which time it is and which language we are using .... :-)
Would the answer
depend on if your death was through battle or through some other
means?
I would definitely prefer to die fighting for a just and good
cause if I had the choice - or at least die weapon in hand, if
just for proper appearance. ;)
<....>
React is probably a better word than decide. I hope you don't have to
find out. :-)
Lisbeth.
----
The day I don't learn anything new is the day I die.
*What we know is not nearly as interesting as *how we know it.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.
|
|
|
| User: "Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian" |
|
| Title: Re: Would you die for them? |
01 Apr 2007 09:18:52 PM |
|
|
Lisbeth Andersson:
I'm getting curious. What is your opinion on life after death? (And,
yes, mind your own business is a perfectly good answer.)
Oh well...
....first, how would anyone know? Those who know can't talk to us anymore :)
(Not in any way that's objectively and verifiable, that is)
As far as I know, the ancestors held a range of beliefs regarding what
_might_ happen to us after passing from this world - the Hel-or-Valhalla
thing is but the most well-known option. One could, legend has it, be
called to the hall of one of the other High Ones (I've met at least one
other Asatruar who'd like to end up in Folkwang - why someone would want to
go to Freya's hall I'll leave up to you to decide ;) ), become a guardian
spirit for the still-living family members, some of the greatest heroes are
even said to have been reincarnated - females supposedly, in some cases, as
Valkyries.
Last but not least, as pretty much all sagas that survived until today have
gone through a period of more-or-less peaceful coexistence of Asatru and
the jebus cult, there's definitely some degree of mixing involved. Some
possible candidates for mixing results are the Hel-or-Valhalla duality, the
commonly-known nature of Ragnarok as end-of-the-worlds(TM), and especially
the names of the first humans in Asatru lore. Let's be honest, Askr and
Embla sound suspiciously similar to... you know whom.
The day will come when I'll know. :)
And since the term "saga" has differemt connotations depending on
which time it is and which language we are using .... :-)
Well, myth, legend, or (for the more ironically-minded) yes, fairy tale
aren't too far from what I mean. :)
React is probably a better word than decide. I hope you don't have to
find out. :-)
Not that soon at least. Would like to finish some other business here in
Midgard first. ;)
--
"To his friend a man a friend shall prove, and gifts with gifts requite;
But men shall mocking with mockery answer, and fraud with falsehood meet."
(The Poetic Edda)
Must have been written with fundies in mind...
My personal judgment of monotheism:
http://www.carcosa.de/nojebus
.
|
|
|
| User: "Lisbeth Andersson" |
|
| Title: Re: Would you die for them? |
04 Apr 2007 11:36:27 AM |
|
|
"Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian" <MAILTOsecretary@carcosa.de> wrote
in news:eupp6c$e76$1@online.de:
Lisbeth Andersson:
I'm getting curious. What is your opinion on life after death?
(And, yes, mind your own business is a perfectly good answer.)
Oh well...
Thanks for the answer, and snip for brevity.
Last but not least, as pretty much all sagas that survived until
today have gone through a period of more-or-less peaceful
coexistence of Asatru and the jebus cult, there's definitely some
degree of mixing involved. Some possible candidates for mixing
results are the Hel-or-Valhalla duality, the commonly-known
nature of Ragnarok as end-of-the-worlds(TM), and especially the
names of the first humans in Asatru lore. Let's be honest, Askr
and Embla sound suspiciously similar to... you know whom.
<...>
Don't give Christianity too much credit :-). A lot of the myths have
floated around the world for a very long time, and it is by now
impossible to decide where, and how, they started. The "mankind came
from one couple" is a very common theme, and the only similarity in
the myths are the first vovels in the names. In the academic world the
fashion at the moment is to regard Ragnarök as an original theme, and
the underground-earth-heaven world view has been compared to the
shamanic worlds in Finland and Saampi.
Lisbeth.
----
The day I don't learn anything new is the day I die.
*What we know is not nearly as interesting as *how we know it.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Don Martin" |
|
| Title: Re: Would you die for them? |
01 Apr 2007 08:20:54 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 31 Mar 2007 18:58:47 +0200, "Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian"
<MAILTOsecretary@carcosa.de> wrote:
Uncle Clover:
To the theists of the group: If a sinner would be saved through your
death, would you consent to dying?
Umm... there are theists whose faiths have no concept of "sin"... ;)
That said, I wouldn't rule out dying for another person, but it would depend
on the circumstances and I'd probably decide pretty spontaneously.
And it probably would be a decision but a thoughtless impulse arising
from your decency and empathy. It _would_ be spontaneous, though.
Through a jaundiced eye darkly--rheum with a view.
The Squeeky Wheel
http://home.comcast.net/~drdonmartin/
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Uncle Clover" |
|
| Title: Re: Would you die for them? |
01 Apr 2007 12:50:11 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 31 Mar 2007 18:58:47 +0200, "Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian"
<MAILTOsecretary@carcosa.de> wrote:
Uncle Clover:
To the theists of the group: If a sinner would be saved through your
death, would you consent to dying?
Umm... there are theists whose faiths have no concept of "sin"... ;)
Good point, and actually a pretty useful thing to keep in mind. I so
seldom ever hear from that kind of theist on the subject of their
faith, so that kind of theism just sort of slipped my mind. I suppose
I should specify "fundamentalist theists" or something along those
lines.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Thurisaz, Germanic barbarian" |
|
| Title: Re: Would you die for them? |
01 Apr 2007 08:38:36 AM |
|
|
Uncle Clover:
Good point, and actually a pretty useful thing to keep in mind. I so
seldom ever hear from that kind of theist on the subject of their
faith, so that kind of theism just sort of slipped my mind.
No wonder. Only the morontheists feel driven by their dogma to shout from
the rooftops constantly. :)
--
"To his friend a man a friend shall prove, and gifts with gifts requite;
But men shall mocking with mockery answer, and fraud with falsehood meet."
(The Poetic Edda)
Must have been written with fundies in mind...
My personal judgment of monotheism:
http://www.carcosa.de/nojebus
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
Still Think You Won't Get Drafted To Go Die For AWOL's Lie? US Army Platoon Defies Order To Undertake "Suicide Mission"
Still Think You Won't Get Drafted And Go Die For AWOL's Lie? 1105th GI Killed By AWOL's Big Lie. Mission Accomplished!
Still Think You Won't Get Drafted And Go Die For AWOL's Lie? 1123rd GI Killed By AWOL's Big Lie. Mission Accomplished!
Still Think You Won't be Drafted To Go Die For AWOL's Lie? Pentagon Secretly Planned For More Aggressive Selective Service Plan
Still Think You Won't Get Drafted To Go Die For AWOL's Lie?
You Are More Likely to Die in Iraq Than in Vietnam (Why Aren't You NeoCon Chickenhawks in Iraq?)
I want to ask you the most important question of your life. The question is: Are you saved? It is not a question of how good you are, nor if you are a church member, but are you saved? Are you sure you will go to Heaven when you die? The reason some
Ta
| Re: I want to ask you the most important question of your life. The question is: Are you saved? It is not a question of how good you are, nor if you are a church member, but are you saved? Are you sure you will go to Heaven when you die? The reason s
Re: I want to ask you the most important question of your life. The question is: Are you saved? It is not a question of how good you are, nor if you are a church member, but are you saved? Are you sure you will go to Heaven when you die? The reason s
Re: I want to ask you the most important question of your life. The question is: Are you saved? It is not a question of how good you are, nor if you are a church member, but are you saved? Are you sure you will go to Heaven when you die? The reason s
Re: I want to ask you the most important question of your life. The question is: Are you saved? It is not a question of how good you are, nor if you are a church member, but are you saved? Are you sure you will go to Heaven when you die? The reason s
Re: I want to ask you the most important question of your life. The question is: Are you saved? It is not a question of how good you are, nor if you are a church member, but are you saved? Are you sure you will go to Heaven when you die? The reason s
PA TV: Expel Israelis from Israel; 'Be gone. Die anywhere you like, but don't die here.'
--- You will die without future solution. Is this fair?
|
|
|
