| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Jim Roberts" |
| Date: |
06 Mar 2007 04:25:45 PM |
| Object: |
Would you trust an Atheist to tell the truth? |
You are in court. You are member of the jury.
There are two witnesses. It matters not whether they are witnesses for
the defence or prosecution.
All things being equal:-
One witness is a Christian and takes the oath on the Bible to tell the
truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help him God.
If this witness lies, he goes to Hell. That is he/she believes they
will go to Hell.
The other witness is an Atheist and only affirms they will tell the
truth.
You only have this witness' word that they will not lie.
Who has more to lose [in their expectation] if they lie?
Who do you trust more?
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Would you trust an Atheist to tell the truth? |
08 Mar 2007 09:10:39 AM |
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Christopher A.Lee <calee@optonline.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote:
cobalt@newscene.com (Kate ) wrote in alt.atheism
There is no way of telling what a 'Christian' truly believes and
doesn't.
I've found atheists over self proclaimed Christians to have a far
greater honesty. I guess since to be a Christian, the first thing you
have to do is convince yourself of a lie, then it makes it far more
likely they will lie.
They're covered in the blood of Jesus, so all their sins, including
lying, are all forgiven! Presto!
They find this imagery poetic and beautiful. I find it sickening.
John 6:54
"Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I
will raise him up at the last day."
John 6:56
"Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me, and I in
him."
It's like a cannibal and vampire cult if you ask me. I guess that's
why vampire stories are so popular these days, because many people
like the idea of living forever after drinking the blood of the
immortal head vampire or cult leader.
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
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| User: "Jos Flachs" |
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| Title: Re: Would you trust an Atheist to tell the truth? |
07 Mar 2007 06:37:38 AM |
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On 6 Mar 2007 14:45:22 -0800, "Jim Roberts" <cjdroberts@gmail.com>
wrote:
so any christian who has ever told a single lie goes to hell?
In their own mind they go to Hell, as they have broken their oath to
their God on His Holy Book.
Except of course in their own particular cases. Then lying suddenly
becomes the word of the Loard. For example: a fundy is charged with
assault on a doctor working in an abortion clinic. His fundy friend
provides him with an alibi. This is of course not lying, but doing the
Lard's good work.
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| User: "David Schwartz" |
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| Title: Re: Would you trust an Atheist to tell the truth? |
08 Mar 2007 07:32:08 AM |
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On Mar 6, 2:45 pm, "Jim Roberts" <cjdrobe...@gmail.com> wrote:
In their own mind they go to Hell, as they have broken their oath to
their God on His Holy Book.
In this case their "lie" could send a person away for life
imprisonment.
Then why do we have priest sex abuse scandals? Do you think they
really believe that in their own mind, these actions condemn them to
Hell? Or do you think they believe that and do them anyway?
Every piece of evidence I have seen with my own two eyes suggests that
religion plays no role in people's ordinary moral choices. People kill
even though they believe God said "thou shalt not kill". People even
convince themselves that in some special circumstance, god would
actually want them to kill. They will no doubt do the same with lying.
DS
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| User: "tirebiter" |
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| Title: Re: Would you trust an Atheist to tell the truth? |
06 Mar 2007 09:11:59 PM |
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On Mar 6, 5:45 pm, "Jim Roberts" <cjdrobe...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mar 6, 10:38 pm, "snex" <s...@comcast.net> wrote:
On Mar 6, 4:25 pm, "Jim Roberts" <cjdrobe...@gmail.com> wrote:
You are in court. You are member of the jury.
There are two witnesses. It matters not whether they are witnesses for
the defence or prosecution.
All things being equal:-
One witness is a Christian and takes the oath on the Bible to tell the
truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help him God.
If this witness lies, he goes to Hell. That is he/she believes they
will go to Hell.
The other witness is an Atheist and only affirms they will tell the
truth.
You only have this witness' word that they will not lie.
Who has more to lose [in their expectation] if they lie?
Who do you trust more?
so any christian who has ever told a single lie goes to hell?
In their own mind they go to Hell, as they have broken their oath to
their God on His Holy Book.
In this case their "lie" could send a person away for life
imprisonment.
While we're supposin', that person could leave the courthouse, go
screw his mistress, whistle all the way home, beat his wife and kids,
kick the dog, drink a bottle of booze, and sleep without a care in the
world.
But I digress. If this is a judicial court, then the oath both
witnesses take is a secular declaration against perjury and carries
secular penalties if its violated. The christian won't have to wait
for hell if he is caught lying.
---
a.a. #2273
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| User: "Dubh Ghall" |
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| Title: Re: Would you trust an Atheist to tell the truth? |
07 Mar 2007 03:49:39 AM |
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On 6 Mar 2007 19:11:59 -0800, "tirebiter" <dontspamme666@bigfoot.com>
wrote:
On Mar 6, 5:45 pm, "Jim Roberts" <cjdrobe...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mar 6, 10:38 pm, "snex" <s...@comcast.net> wrote:
On Mar 6, 4:25 pm, "Jim Roberts" <cjdrobe...@gmail.com> wrote:
You are in court. You are member of the jury.
There are two witnesses. It matters not whether they are witnesses for
the defence or prosecution.
All things being equal:-
One witness is a Christian and takes the oath on the Bible to tell the
truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help him God.
If this witness lies, he goes to Hell. That is he/she believes they
will go to Hell.
The other witness is an Atheist and only affirms they will tell the
truth.
You only have this witness' word that they will not lie.
Who has more to lose [in their expectation] if they lie?
Who do you trust more?
so any christian who has ever told a single lie goes to hell?
In their own mind they go to Hell, as they have broken their oath to
their God on His Holy Book.
In this case their "lie" could send a person away for life
imprisonment.
While we're supposin', that person could leave the courthouse, go
screw his mistress, whistle all the way home, beat his wife and kids,
kick the dog, drink a bottle of booze, and sleep without a care in the
world.
But I digress. If this is a judicial court, then the oath both
witnesses take is a secular declaration against perjury and carries
secular penalties if its violated. The christian won't have to wait
for hell if he is caught lying.
Besides, all the xtian has to do, is be sorry he lied, and he is
forgiven, relieved of his guilt, and saved from hell.
The atheist who lies, has to live with his guilt.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Would you trust an Atheist to tell the truth? |
07 Mar 2007 06:34:44 AM |
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On Wed, 07 Mar 2007 09:49:39 +0000, Dubh Ghall wrote:
On 6 Mar 2007 19:11:59 -0800, "tirebiter" <dontspamme666@bigfoot.com>
wrote:
On Mar 6, 5:45 pm, "Jim Roberts" <cjdrobe...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mar 6, 10:38 pm, "snex" <s...@comcast.net> wrote:
On Mar 6, 4:25 pm, "Jim Roberts" <cjdrobe...@gmail.com> wrote:
You are in court. You are member of the jury.
There are two witnesses. It matters not whether they are witnesses for
the defence or prosecution.
All things being equal:-
One witness is a Christian and takes the oath on the Bible to tell the
truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help him God.
If this witness lies, he goes to Hell. That is he/she believes they
will go to Hell.
The other witness is an Atheist and only affirms they will tell the
truth.
You only have this witness' word that they will not lie.
Who has more to lose [in their expectation] if they lie?
Who do you trust more?
so any christian who has ever told a single lie goes to hell?
In their own mind they go to Hell, as they have broken their oath to
their God on His Holy Book.
In this case their "lie" could send a person away for life
imprisonment.
While we're supposin', that person could leave the courthouse, go
screw his mistress, whistle all the way home, beat his wife and kids,
kick the dog, drink a bottle of booze, and sleep without a care in the
world.
But I digress. If this is a judicial court, then the oath both
witnesses take is a secular declaration against perjury and carries
secular penalties if its violated. The christian won't have to wait
for hell if he is caught lying.
Besides, all the xtian has to do, is be sorry he lied, and he is
forgiven, relieved of his guilt, and saved from hell.
The atheist who lies, has to live with his guilt.
Not to mention the potential real world consequences (just ask "Scooter"
Libby about those).
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace
alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing
it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."
- H. L. Mencken
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Would you trust an Atheist to tell the truth? |
07 Mar 2007 06:33:57 AM |
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On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 14:45:22 -0800, Jim Roberts wrote:
On Mar 6, 10:38 pm, "snex" <s...@comcast.net> wrote:
On Mar 6, 4:25 pm, "Jim Roberts" <cjdrobe...@gmail.com> wrote:
You are in court. You are member of the jury.
There are two witnesses. It matters not whether they are witnesses for
the defence or prosecution.
All things being equal:-
One witness is a Christian and takes the oath on the Bible to tell the
truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help him God.
If this witness lies, he goes to Hell. That is he/she believes they
will go to Hell.
The other witness is an Atheist and only affirms they will tell the
truth.
You only have this witness' word that they will not lie.
Who has more to lose [in their expectation] if they lie?
Who do you trust more?
so any christian who has ever told a single lie goes to hell?
In their own mind they go to Hell, as they have broken their oath to
their God on His Holy Book.
Wrong.
Christians believe their "sins" can be "forgiven." Only one "sin" is
listed as "unpardonable" and nobody agrees on what the hell "blaspheming
the holy spirit" even means.
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace
alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing
it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."
- H. L. Mencken
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| User: "chibiabos" |
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| Title: Re: Would you trust an Atheist to tell the truth? |
07 Mar 2007 08:02:07 AM |
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In article <pan.2007.03.07.12.33.56.633907@com.mkbilbo>, Mark K. Bilbo
<gmail@com.mkbilbo> wrote:
On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 14:45:22 -0800, Jim Roberts wrote:
On Mar 6, 10:38 pm, "snex" <s...@comcast.net> wrote:
On Mar 6, 4:25 pm, "Jim Roberts" <cjdrobe...@gmail.com> wrote:
You are in court. You are member of the jury.
There are two witnesses. It matters not whether they are witnesses for
the defence or prosecution.
All things being equal:-
One witness is a Christian and takes the oath on the Bible to tell the
truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help him God.
If this witness lies, he goes to Hell. That is he/she believes they
will go to Hell.
The other witness is an Atheist and only affirms they will tell the
truth.
You only have this witness' word that they will not lie.
Who has more to lose [in their expectation] if they lie?
Who do you trust more?
so any christian who has ever told a single lie goes to hell?
In their own mind they go to Hell, as they have broken their oath to
their God on His Holy Book.
Wrong.
Christians believe their "sins" can be "forgiven." Only one "sin" is
listed as "unpardonable" and nobody agrees on what the hell "blaspheming
the holy spirit" even means.
I'm pretty sure that comes close to qualifying, Mark.
-chib
--
Member of S.M.A.S.H.
Sarcastic Middle-aged Atheists with a Sense of Humor
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Would you trust an Atheist to tell the truth? |
08 Mar 2007 08:00:39 AM |
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snex <snex@comcast.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Jim Roberts <cjdrobe...@gmail.com> wrote:
One witness is a Christian and takes the oath on the Bible to tell the
truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help him God.
If this witness lies, he goes to Hell. That is he/she believes they
will go to Hell.
so any christian who has ever told a single lie goes to hell?
I've seen some Christians claim Hitler could be in heaven if he
sincerely repented before he died, so a single lie shouldn't be a
problem, should it?
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
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| User: "Mettas Mother" |
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| Title: Re: Would you trust an Atheist to tell the truth? |
08 Mar 2007 11:13:21 PM |
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Hitler is my brother and he is a good GOD loving soul!
"Elroy Willis" <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:og50v299c5ge1hj5fru5hg49si44nmj11k@4ax.com...
snex <snex@comcast.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Jim Roberts <cjdrobe...@gmail.com> wrote:
One witness is a Christian and takes the oath on the Bible to tell the
truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help him God.
If this witness lies, he goes to Hell. That is he/she believes they
will go to Hell.
so any christian who has ever told a single lie goes to hell?
I've seen some Christians claim Hitler could be in heaven if he
sincerely repented before he died, so a single lie shouldn't be a
problem, should it?
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
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| User: "Thandarr" |
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| Title: Re: Would you trust an Atheist to tell the truth? |
06 Mar 2007 06:02:20 PM |
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On Mar 6, 4:25 pm, "Jim Roberts" <cjdrobe...@gmail.com> wrote:
You are in court. You are member of the jury.
There was this guy in court, on the witness stand, who told a story
the lawyer didn't seem to believe:
Lawyer: You know you're under oath?
Guy: Yes.
Lawyer: And you swore to tell the truth?
Guy: Yes.
Lawyer: What happens if you lie?
Guy: You go to hell.
Lawyer: No, what else?
Guy: You mean there's MORE?
Thandarr
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| User: "jl" |
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| Title: Re: Would you trust an Atheist to tell the truth? |
07 Mar 2007 07:08:28 AM |
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On Mar 6, 7:02 pm, "Thandarr" <thand...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Mar 6, 4:25 pm, "Jim Roberts" <cjdrobe...@gmail.com> wrote:
You are in court. You are member of the jury.
There was this guy in court, on the witness stand, who told a story
the lawyer didn't seem to believe:
Lawyer: You know you're under oath?
Guy: Yes.
Lawyer: And you swore to tell the truth?
Guy: Yes.
Lawyer: What happens if you lie?
Guy: You go to hell.
Lawyer: No, what else?
Guy: You mean there's MORE?
Thandarr
Funny. Fear of an indictment for perjury may induce some people to be
truthful on the witness stand, but then anybody will lie, in my
personal experience, if the stakes are high enough.
Thus, a person who stands to make money, or a person taking the stand
in his own defense in a felony criminal case, or a person who is a
close relative of one of the parties, or a police officer who has
violated search and seizure laws and wants that conviction and his
stripes will be inclined to fudge on the facts.
We had a character in our judicial district named Scott Dillingham, a
notorious crook. He was in court before a judge and jury with his
lawyer, Billy Styles, and charged with one of his many infractions
against the peace and dignity of North Carolina. During testimony of
one of the witnesses, Scott's lawyer, Billy Styles, turned to him and
whispered a question, "Is your mother still alive?"
"Which way do you want it?", Scott asked. "We can do it either way."
My opinion of good religious folk is that they have lived such lies
and bought into so many fairy tales, and having become accustomed to
instant forgiveness for all their sins, that a fairy tale from the
witness chair is not such an unconscionable thing. What could be a
better example of moral relativism than a falsity from the witness box
followed by a simple prayer asking for forgiveness. After all, that's
the message of the New Testament: Ask and ye shall receive. Even the
evil criminal crucified beside Jesus on the cross received instant
forgiveness. He asked Jesus for a pardon, and Jesus told him, "This
evening shalt thou dine with me in Paradise."
In my mind the biggest reason for telling the truth is that it's the
honorable thing to do and that one is required to live with his
conscience. Long before the advent of Christianity other cultures
spoke of doing no harm, of doing unto others as you would have them do
unto you.
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| User: "jl" |
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| Title: Re: Would you trust an Atheist to tell the truth? |
07 Mar 2007 10:50:54 AM |
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On Mar 6, 5:25 pm, "Jim Roberts" <cjdrobe...@gmail.com> wrote:
You are in court. You are member of the jury.
There are two witnesses. It matters not whether they are witnesses for
the defence or prosecution.
All things being equal:-
One witness is a Christian and takes the oath on the Bible to tell the
truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help him God.
If this witness lies, he goes to Hell. That is he/she believes they
will go to Hell.
The other witness is an Atheist and only affirms they will tell the
truth.
You only have this witness' word that they will not lie.
Who has more to lose [in their expectation] if they lie?
Who do you trust more?
Now that the thread has run into more than 80 replies and you have
gotten your answers, why don't you pose this question in some of the
theist newsgroups, like alt.religion.christian,
alt.christian.religion, and the Presbyterian, Lutheran, Catholic,
Baptist, Charismatic, and Mormon newsgroups.
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| User: "Christopher A.Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Would you trust an Atheist to tell the truth? |
07 Mar 2007 10:52:22 AM |
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On 7 Mar 2007 08:50:54 -0800, "jl" <jls1016@bellsouth.net> wrote:
On Mar 6, 5:25 pm, "Jim Roberts" <cjdrobe...@gmail.com> wrote:
You are in court. You are member of the jury.
There are two witnesses. It matters not whether they are witnesses for
the defence or prosecution.
All things being equal:-
One witness is a Christian and takes the oath on the Bible to tell the
truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help him God.
If this witness lies, he goes to Hell. That is he/she believes they
will go to Hell.
The other witness is an Atheist and only affirms they will tell the
truth.
You only have this witness' word that they will not lie.
Who has more to lose [in their expectation] if they lie?
Who do you trust more?
Now that the thread has run into more than 80 replies and you have
gotten your answers, why don't you pose this question in some of the
theist newsgroups, like alt.religion.christian,
alt.christian.religion, and the Presbyterian, Lutheran, Catholic,
Baptist, Charismatic, and Mormon newsgroups.
Because he didn't want an answer. Just to rub his ***** in people's
faces.
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| User: "jl" |
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| Title: Re: Would you trust an Atheist to tell the truth? |
07 Mar 2007 04:33:01 PM |
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On Mar 7, 11:52 am, Christopher A.Lee <c...@optonline.net> wrote:
On 7 Mar 2007 08:50:54 -0800, "jl" <jls1...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
On Mar 6, 5:25 pm, "Jim Roberts" <cjdrobe...@gmail.com> wrote:
You are in court. You are member of the jury.
There are two witnesses. It matters not whether they are witnesses for
the defence or prosecution.
All things being equal:-
One witness is a Christian and takes the oath on the Bible to tell the
truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help him God.
If this witness lies, he goes to Hell. That is he/she believes they
will go to Hell.
The other witness is an Atheist and only affirms they will tell the
truth.
You only have this witness' word that they will not lie.
Who has more to lose [in their expectation] if they lie?
Who do you trust more?
Now that the thread has run into more than 80 replies and you have
gotten your answers, why don't you pose this question in some of the
theist newsgroups, like alt.religion.christian,
alt.christian.religion, and the Presbyterian, Lutheran, Catholic,
Baptist, Charismatic, and Mormon newsgroups.
Because he didn't want an answer. Just to rub his ***** in people's
faces.
Maybe what he did was enlighten a few people, ironically lead (or
scare) a few thinkers away from the errors of Christianity. I would
like to think so.
For centuries the church and the courts have proclaimed the false
argument that the sworn Christian witness will refuse to bear false
witness for fear of hell. There were times when the Jew's testimony
was worthless because of his inability to take a Christian oath,
because he did not believe in the Christian God, i. e., the trinity.
Similarly the testimony of an atheist, a Hindu, a Muslim, or Buddhist
was diminished or worthless in Christian cultures.
Despite our Constitution's specifically prohibition of a religious
test for holding office here in the United States, an idiot governor
in South Carolina, David Beasley, denied the application of an atheist
to become a notary public.
For centuries atheists have been lower class citizens. They have been
called evil and received diminished rights and protections, even here
in the USA because of their disbelief.
From what we have learned here, and from the common experience of many
observant people who know better, no perjuring Christian believes he
will go to hell. On the contrary, no matter what sin or crime he
commits, he's forgiven, just like that condemned felon crucified with
Jesus, who said to him, "This evening shalt thou dine with me in
Paradise." I have known so many smug Christians, having been raised
amongst them, who don't even need forgiveness--- in their intimacies
with their Lord they have been given special dispensations to lie.
The lines are so blurred between truth and fiction, between myth and
reality, that lying becomes a way of life.
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| User: "Jim Roberts" |
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| Title: Re: Would you trust an Atheist to tell the truth? |
07 Mar 2007 11:23:29 PM |
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On Mar 7, 4:50 pm, "jl" <jls1...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
On Mar 6, 5:25 pm, "JimRoberts" <cjdrobe...@gmail.com> wrote:
You are in court. You are member of the jury.
There are two witnesses. It matters not whether they are witnesses for
the defence or prosecution.
All things being equal:-
One witness is a Christian and takes the oath on the Bible to tell the
truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help him God.
If this witness lies, he goes to Hell. That is he/she believes they
will go to Hell.
The other witness is an Atheist and only affirms they will tell the
truth.
You only have this witness' word that they will not lie.
Who has more to lose [in their expectation] if they lie?
Who do you trust more?
Now that the thread has run into more than 80 replies and you have
gotten your answers, why don't you pose this question in some of the
theist newsgroups, like alt.religion.christian,
alt.christian.religion, and the Presbyterian, Lutheran, Catholic,
Baptist, Charismatic, and Mormon newsgroups.
Cross-posting question from Alt.Atheist newsgroup
Would you trust an Atheist to tell the truth?
You are in court. You are member of the jury.
There are two witnesses. It matters not whether they are witnesses for
the defence or prosecution.
All things being equal:-
One witness is a Christian and takes the oath on the Bible to tell the
truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help him God.
If this witness lies, he goes to Hell. That is he/she believes they
will go to Hell.
The other witness is an Atheist and only affirms they will tell the
truth.
You only have this witness' word that they will not lie.
Who has more to lose [in their expectation] if they lie?
Who do you trust more?
[Visit Alt.Atheist newsgroup for full discussion to date]
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| User: "tirebiter" |
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| Title: Re: Would you trust an Atheist to tell the truth? |
08 Mar 2007 11:39:36 AM |
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On Mar 6, 5:25 pm, "Jim Roberts" <cjdrobe...@gmail.com> wrote:
You are in court. You are member of the jury.
There are two witnesses. It matters not whether they are witnesses for
the defence or prosecution.
All things being equal:-
One witness is a Christian and takes the oath on the Bible to tell the
truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help him God.
If this witness lies, he goes to Hell. That is he/she believes they
will go to Hell.
The other witness is an Atheist and only affirms they will tell the
truth.
You only have this witness' word that they will not lie.
Who has more to lose [in their expectation] if they lie?
Who do you trust more?
Since you're apparently trying to compare members of what you think of
as most/least trusted groups, but somehow all other things being
equal. Try changing the group designations a bit and see where it
leads you:
Witness 1 = White, Witness 2 = Black
Witness 1 = Christian, Witness 2 = Muslim
Witness 1 = Christian, Witness 2 = Jewish
Witness 1 = Black, Witness 2 = Arab
Witness 1 = Rich, Witness 2 = Poor
Witness 1 = Educated, Witness 2 = Ignorant
etc., ad nauseum
Can you really say you'd be comfortable making prejudicial decisions
between two people because of labels that have been attached to them?
Oh yeah, wink wink nudge nudge all things being equal.
I keep hoping the world will be a better place, but these types of POV
make me wonder.
---
a.a. #2273
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| User: "jl" |
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| Title: Re: Would you trust an Atheist to tell the truth? |
06 Mar 2007 05:36:22 PM |
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On Mar 6, 5:25 pm, "Jim Roberts" <cjdrobe...@gmail.com> wrote:
You are in court. You are member of the jury.
There are two witnesses. It matters not whether they are witnesses for
the defence or prosecution.
All things being equal:-
One witness is a Christian and takes the oath on the Bible to tell the
truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help him God.
If this witness lies, he goes to Hell. That is he/she believes they
will go to Hell.
The other witness is an Atheist and only affirms they will tell the
truth.
You only have this witness' word that they will not lie.
Who has more to lose [in their expectation] if they lie?
Who do you trust more?
Well, you're an idiot. I remember a case in court where two women,
one of them a preacher's wife and the other an antiques dealer, were
charged with forging the deed of a man who had since died and
backdating the time of the notarial acknowledgment. The preacher's
wife was the notary who took the acknowledgment of the warranty deed.
I can remember today just like it happened yesterday, although it was
20 years ago. The woman said she was going to lie and ask God to
forgive her. I heard her with my own ears. She took the stand and
lied, yes LIED, after having laid her hand on the Bible and sworn to
tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help
her, God.
Yes, you are an idiot.
The memories I have of the lying Christian is that you can lie, you
can cheat, steal, bear false witness, commit adultery, poach, and work
all manner of frauds and deceits as long as afterward you go to the
Lord and confess and ask for forgiveness in prayer. Never have I
known such situational ethics among atheists. Matter of fact most of
the atheists I have known are scrupulously honest, although we all
have feet of clay.
So, you have feet of clay and besides that, you are an idiot.
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| User: "Jim Roberts" |
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| Title: Re: Would you trust an Atheist to tell the truth? |
06 Mar 2007 05:41:50 PM |
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On Mar 6, 11:36 pm, "jl" <jls1...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
On Mar 6, 5:25 pm, "Jim Roberts" <cjdrobe...@gmail.com> wrote:
You are in court. You are member of the jury.
There are two witnesses. It matters not whether they are witnesses for
the defence or prosecution.
All things being equal:-
One witness is a Christian and takes the oath on the Bible to tell the
truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help him God.
If this witness lies, he goes to Hell. That is he/she believes they
will go to Hell.
The other witness is an Atheist and only affirms they will tell the
truth.
You only have this witness' word that they will not lie.
Who has more to lose [in their expectation] if they lie?
Who do you trust more?
Well, you're an idiot. I remember a case in court where two women,
one of them a preacher's wife and the other an antiques dealer, were
charged with forging the deed of a man who had since died and
backdating the time of the notarial acknowledgment. The preacher's
wife was the notary who took the acknowledgment of the warranty deed.
I can remember today just like it happened yesterday, although it was
20 years ago. The woman said she was going to lie and ask God to
forgive her. I heard her with my own ears. She took the stand and
lied, yes LIED, after having laid her hand on the Bible and sworn to
tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help
her, God.
Yes, you are an idiot.
The memories I have of the lying Christian is that you can lie, you
can cheat, steal, bear false witness, commit adultery, poach, and work
all manner of frauds and deceits as long as afterward you go to the
Lord and confess and ask for forgiveness in prayer. Never have I
known such situational ethics among atheists. Matter of fact most of
the atheists I have known are scrupulously honest, although we all
have feet of clay.
So, you have feet of clay and besides that, you are an idiot.
So are you arguing that because the Atheist has no one to whom they
can confess their sins to, they have to be ultra-careful with
morality? No indulgences for Atheists! Interesting.
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| User: "thomas p." |
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| Title: Re: Would you trust an Atheist to tell the truth? |
07 Mar 2007 07:52:10 AM |
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On 7 Mar., 00:41, "Jim Roberts" <cjdrobe...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mar 6, 11:36 pm, "jl" <jls1...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
On Mar 6, 5:25 pm, "Jim Roberts" <cjdrobe...@gmail.com> wrote:
You are in court. You are member of the jury.
There are two witnesses. It matters not whether they are witnesses for
the defence or prosecution.
All things being equal:-
One witness is a Christian and takes the oath on the Bible to tell the
truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help him God.
If this witness lies, he goes to Hell. That is he/she believes they
will go to Hell.
The other witness is an Atheist and only affirms they will tell the
truth.
You only have this witness' word that they will not lie.
Who has more to lose [in their expectation] if they lie?
Who do you trust more?
Well, you're an idiot. I remember a case in court where two women,
one of them a preacher's wife and the other an antiques dealer, were
charged with forging the deed of a man who had since died and
backdating the time of the notarial acknowledgment. The preacher's
wife was the notary who took the acknowledgment of the warranty deed.
I can remember today just like it happened yesterday, although it was
20 years ago. The woman said she was going to lie and ask God to
forgive her. I heard her with my own ears. She took the stand and
lied, yes LIED, after having laid her hand on the Bible and sworn to
tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help
her, God.
Yes, you are an idiot.
The memories I have of the lying Christian is that you can lie, you
can cheat, steal, bear false witness, commit adultery, poach, and work
all manner of frauds and deceits as long as afterward you go to the
Lord and confess and ask for forgiveness in prayer. Never have I
known such situational ethics among atheists. Matter of fact most of
the atheists I have known are scrupulously honest, although we all
have feet of clay.
So, you have feet of clay and besides that, you are an idiot.
So are you arguing that because the Atheist has no one to whom they
can confess their sins to, they have to be ultra-careful with
morality? No indulgences for Atheists! Interesting.-
It is very interesting that you could get the above out of what was
written. It was not said, nor does it follow from what was said.
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| User: "jl" |
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| Title: Re: Would you trust an Atheist to tell the truth? |
06 Mar 2007 07:22:21 PM |
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On Mar 6, 6:41 pm, "Jim Roberts" <cjdrobe...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Mar 6, 11:36 pm, "jl" <jls1...@bellsouth.net> wrote:
On Mar 6, 5:25 pm, "Jim Roberts" <cjdrobe...@gmail.com> wrote:
You are in court. You are member of the jury.
There are two witnesses. It matters not whether they are witnesses for
the defence or prosecution.
All things being equal:-
One witness is a Christian and takes the oath on the Bible to tell the
truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help him God.
If this witness lies, he goes to Hell. That is he/she believes they
will go to Hell.
The other witness is an Atheist and only affirms they will tell the
truth.
You only have this witness' word that they will not lie.
Who has more to lose [in their expectation] if they lie?
Who do you trust more?
Well, you're an idiot. I remember a case in court where two women,
one of them a preacher's wife and the other an antiques dealer, were
charged with forging the deed of a man who had since died and
backdating the time of the notarial acknowledgment. The preacher's
wife was the notary who took the acknowledgment of the warranty deed.
I can remember today just like it happened yesterday, although it was
20 years ago. The woman said she was going to lie and ask God to
forgive her. I heard her with my own ears. She took the stand and
lied, yes LIED, after having laid her hand on the Bible and sworn to
tell the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help
her, God.
Yes, you are an idiot.
The memories I have of the lying Christian is that you can lie, you
can cheat, steal, bear false witness, commit adultery, poach, and work
all manner of frauds and deceits as long as afterward you go to the
Lord and confess and ask for forgiveness in prayer. Never have I
known such situational ethics among atheists. Matter of fact most of
the atheists I have known are scrupulously honest, although we all
have feet of clay.
So, you have feet of clay and besides that, you are an idiot.
So are you arguing that because the Atheist has no one to whom they
can confess their sins to, they have to be ultra-careful with
morality? No indulgences for Atheists! Interesting.- Hide quoted text -
Well, I don't think I said that. I suspect atheists are more careful
to tell the truth because their philosophy of life has more affinity
for the truth. They yearn for what is true and verifiable, and they
are skeptical about fairy tales passed off as true stories. That's my
opinion about it.
My experience with Christians is that their morality is rather
squishy. I have known some who are utterly evil. Wasn't Luther evil,
and Torquemada, and Charlemagne, and the Bishop who ordered the entire
population of a city exterminated to make certain all the Mahometans
were killed? "For the Lord knoweth them that are his," the Bishop
said. And the pope who struck a gold coin and hung a mural in the
Vatican to commemorate the joyful occasion-- St. Bartholomew's Day---
that 1 million Huguenot men, women, and children in France were
murdered?
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| User: "MarkA" |
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| Title: Re: Would you trust an Atheist to tell the truth? |
06 Mar 2007 08:58:56 PM |
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On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 15:36:22 -0800, jl wrote:
On Mar 6, 5:25 pm, "Jim Roberts" <cjdrobe...@gmail.com> wrote:
You are in court. You are member of the jury.
There are two witnesses. It matters not whether they are witnesses for
the defence or prosecution.
All things being equal:-
One witness is a Christian and takes the oath on the Bible to tell the
truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help him God.
If this witness lies, he goes to Hell. That is he/she believes they will
go to Hell.
The other witness is an Atheist and only affirms they will tell the
truth.
You only have this witness' word that they will not lie.
Who has more to lose [in their expectation] if they lie?
Who do you trust more?
Well, you're an idiot. I remember a case in court where two women, one of
them a preacher's wife and the other an antiques dealer, were charged with
forging the deed of a man who had since died and backdating the time of
the notarial acknowledgment. The preacher's wife was the notary who took
the acknowledgment of the warranty deed.
I can remember today just like it happened yesterday, although it was 20
years ago. The woman said she was going to lie and ask God to forgive
her. I heard her with my own ears. She took the stand and lied, yes
LIED, after having laid her hand on the Bible and sworn to tell the truth,
the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, so help her, God.
Yes, you are an idiot.
The memories I have of the lying Christian is that you can lie, you can
cheat, steal, bear false witness, commit adultery, poach, and work all
manner of frauds and deceits as long as afterward you go to the Lord and
confess and ask for forgiveness in prayer. Never have I known such
situational ethics among atheists. Matter of fact most of the atheists I
have known are scrupulously honest, although we all have feet of clay.
So, you have feet of clay and besides that, you are an idiot.
That reminds me of the parable about the child just learning about
Christianity and the power of prayer. Every day, he prayed to Jesus for a
new bicycle, but every evening he was disappointed that no bicycle had
materialized. He spoke to a friend, who had been a Christian all of his
life. After talking to his friend, the child decided on a different
strategy. He STOLE a bike, and prayed for forgiveness!
--
MarkA
(this space accidentally filled in)
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| User: "Richo" |
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| Title: Re: Would you trust an Atheist to tell the truth? |
06 Mar 2007 04:58:51 PM |
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On Mar 7, 9:25 am, "Jim Roberts" <cjdrobe...@gmail.com> wrote:
You are in court. You are member of the jury.
There are two witnesses. It matters not whether they are witnesses for
the defence or prosecution.
All things being equal:-
One witness is a Christian and takes the oath on the Bible to tell the
truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help him God.
If this witness lies, he goes to Hell. That is he/she believes they
will go to Hell.
The other witness is an Atheist and only affirms they will tell the
truth.
You only have this witness' word that they will not lie.
Who has more to lose [in their expectation] if they lie?
Who do you trust more?
The atheist.
The christian is a hypocrite and does not live up to his own creed -
so is a known liar - the atheist may or may not be a liar.
Cheers, Mark.
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| User: "Baron Sydney von Harbour Bridge" |
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| Title: Re: Would you trust an Atheist to tell the truth? |
06 Mar 2007 05:35:30 PM |
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"Richo" <m.richardson@utas.edu.au> wrote in news:1173221931.204213.229230
@s48g2000cws.googlegroups.com:
The atheist.
The christian is a hypocrite and does not live up to his own
creed - so is a known liar - the atheist may or may not be a liar.
We know more about their religion than they do.
--
First they ignore you, then they laugh at you,
then they fight you, then you win. Mohandas Gandhi
http://broomleigh.be/
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| User: "Jim Roberts" |
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| Title: Re: Would you trust an Atheist to tell the truth? |
07 Mar 2007 05:31:59 PM |
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On 6 Mar, 17:58, "Richo" <m.richard...@utas.edu.au> wrote:
On Mar 7, 9:25 am, "JimRoberts" <cjdrobe...@gmail.com> wrote:
You are in court. You are member of the jury.
There are two witnesses. It matters not whether they are witnesses for
the defence or prosecution.
All things being equal:-
One witness is a Christian and takes the oath on the Bible to tell the
truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help him God.
If this witness lies, he goes to Hell. That is he/she believes they
will go to Hell.
The other witness is an Atheist and only affirms they will tell the
truth.
You only have this witness' word that they will not lie.
Who has more to lose [in their expectation] if they lie?
Who do you trust more?
The atheist.
The christian is a hypocrite and does not live up to his own creed -
so is a known liar - the atheist may or may not be a liar.
Cheers, Mark.
You have been asked to step down from the jury as your answer shows
quite clearly that your personal prejudices influence your judgment.
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| User: "Johnny On The Spot" |
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| Title: Re: Would you trust an Atheist to tell the truth? |
07 Mar 2007 05:34:43 PM |
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"Jim Roberts" <cjdroberts@gmail.com> wrote in news:1173310319.050145.311480
@t69g2000cwt.googlegroups.com:
You have been asked to step down from the jury as your answer shows
quite clearly that your personal prejudices influence your judgment.
Where have I read this before?
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| User: "Christopher A.Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Would you trust an Atheist to tell the truth? |
07 Mar 2007 05:51:09 PM |
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On 7 Mar 2007 15:31:59 -0800, "Jim Roberts" <cjdroberts@gmail.com>
wrote:
On 6 Mar, 17:58, "Richo" <m.richard...@utas.edu.au> wrote:
On Mar 7, 9:25 am, "JimRoberts" <cjdrobe...@gmail.com> wrote:
You are in court. You are member of the jury.
There are two witnesses. It matters not whether they are witnesses for
the defence or prosecution.
All things being equal:-
One witness is a Christian and takes the oath on the Bible to tell the
truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help him God.
If this witness lies, he goes to Hell. That is he/she believes they
will go to Hell.
The other witness is an Atheist and only affirms they will tell the
truth.
You only have this witness' word that they will not lie.
Who has more to lose [in their expectation] if they lie?
Who do you trust more?
The atheist.
The christian is a hypocrite and does not live up to his own creed -
so is a known liar - the atheist may or may not be a liar.
Cheers, Mark.
You have been asked to step down from the jury as your answer shows
quite clearly that your personal prejudices influence your judgment.
A deliberately nasty liar as well as an idiot.
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| User: "Jim Roberts" |
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| Title: Re: Would you trust an Atheist to tell the truth? |
06 Mar 2007 05:05:55 PM |
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On Mar 6, 10:58 pm, "Richo" <m.richard...@utas.edu.au> wrote:
On Mar 7, 9:25 am, "Jim Roberts" <cjdrobe...@gmail.com> wrote:
You are in court. You are member of the jury.
There are two witnesses. It matters not whether they are witnesses for
the defence or prosecution.
All things being equal:-
One witness is a Christian and takes the oath on the Bible to tell the
truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help him God.
If this witness lies, he goes to Hell. That is he/she believes they
will go to Hell.
The other witness is an Atheist and only affirms they will tell the
truth.
You only have this witness' word that they will not lie.
Who has more to lose [in their expectation] if they lie?
Who do you trust more?
The atheist.
The christian is a hypocrite and does not live up to his own creed -
so is a known liar - the atheist may or may not be a liar.
Cheers, Mark.
I think you are really referring to Cretans as being the known liars.
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| User: "*nemo*" |
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| Title: Re: Would you trust an Atheist to tell the truth? |
06 Mar 2007 09:47:03 PM |
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In article <1173222355.617007.27420@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com>,
"Jim Roberts" <cjdroberts@gmail.com> wrote:
I think you are really referring to Cretans as being the known liars.
Now THERE is a very obscure Bible reference! I love it!
--
Nemo - EAC Commissioner for Bible Belt Underwater Operations.
Atheist #1331 (the Palindrome of doom!)
BAAWA Knight! - One of those warm Southern Knights, y'all!
Charter member, SMASH!!
http://home.earthlink.net/~jehdjh/Relpg.html
Draco Dormiens Nunquam Titillandus
Quotemeister since March 2002
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Would you trust an Atheist to tell the truth? |
06 Mar 2007 06:58:00 PM |
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On Tue, 06 Mar 2007 14:25:45 -0800, Jim Roberts wrote:
You are in court. You are member of the jury.
There are two witnesses. It matters not whether they are witnesses for
the defence or prosecution.
All things being equal:-
One witness is a Christian and takes the oath on the Bible to tell the
truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help him God.
If this witness lies, he goes to Hell. That is he/she believes they
will go to Hell.
No, they don't believe that. In fact they believe they have an out for any
and all violations of any and all moral codes. They believe no matter what
they do, Jesus forgives them.
The other witness is an Atheist and only affirms they will tell the
truth.
You only have this witness' word that they will not lie.
Who has more to lose [in their expectation] if they lie?
The atheist.
Who do you trust more?
The atheist.
--
Mark K. Bilbo a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
------------------------------------------------------------
"The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace
alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing
it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary."
- H. L. Mencken
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: Would you trust an Atheist to tell the truth? |
07 Mar 2007 01:09:38 AM |
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One fine day in alt.atheism, "Jim Roberts" <cjdroberts@gmail.com> bloodied
us up with this:
You are in court. You are member of the jury.
There are two witnesses. It matters not whether they are witnesses for
the defence or prosecution.
All things being equal:-
One witness is a Christian and takes the oath on the Bible to tell the
truth the whole truth and nothing but the truth so help him God.
If this witness lies, he goes to Hell. That is he/she believes they
will go to Hell.
The other witness is an Atheist and only affirms they will tell the
truth.
You only have this witness' word that they will not lie.
Who has more to lose [in their expectation] if they lie?
Who do you trust more?
The atheist. Too many lying christers in prison these days. You know, the
ones who insisted they were innocent, then were proven guilty?
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department.
Convicted by Earthquack. Plonked by Fester.
Member Duke Spanking Club.
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