Religions > Atheism > You have asked for proof for the existence of God: here is some.
| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"RS" |
| Date: |
24 Jan 2005 11:23:42 PM |
| Object: |
You have asked for proof for the existence of God: here is some. |
You don't have to read all of the links in detail, but make sure to read my
concluding paragraph before you respond completely.
I am Roman Catholic. Your crack at Roman Catholic faith, however, only
serves to display your continued ignorance of cultures not your own.
Here is a detailed, albeit a somewhat farfetched proof for the existence of
God using logic and observed data:
http://www.you-god-loves.org/proof_for_god.htm
Also another objective and perfectly logical proof offered by Descartes:
http://csunx4.bsc.edu/bmyers/3MEDPRF.htm
Here is a collection of over 300 simple-logic arguments for the existence of
God:
http://www.godlessgeeks.com/LINKS/GodProof.htm
Note, this source offers arguments, rather than proofs. If you are offended
or even confused about the logic behind these arguments, do not look at the
2, 3, or 4 conditions. Instead, read those conditions and compare them to
the title of the argument. Look at moral argument II (10). Some might say
"That is overreaching" but in evidence of the fact that the writer is
offering a moral argument, it is true for said moral argument.
Below is a sermon by Pastor Matthew Henderson on the existence of God:
http://www.gerrardstreet.free-online.co.uk/sermons/s19990926pm.htm
It offers some sound logic and cultural comparisons to show the validity in
people believing God does exist and how it isn't incorrect of them to
believe so.
My favorite source, however, is an article which details around 12 proofs
which summon the most common arguments atheists bring forth and compare them
in light of simple logic in comparison to scriptural and theological
standpoints.
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/nogod.html
Another branch off of this same website offers an explaination of certain
scientists in light of the existence of God (and their personal beliefs):
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/sciencefaith.html
This includes Copernicus, Kepler, Galileo, Descartes, Newton, Boyle,
Faraday, Mendel, Kelvin, Planck, and Einsteisn. The most astounding part is
Einstein who recognized the impossibility of a non-created universe.
Einstein believed in God. Do you still call theists insane?
The following is some examples of the individuals with such strong faith
that caused true evil from being manifested or hindered in the world:
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/spiritual.html
Following is logical proof against the argument "Since we can't see God, God
doesn't exist."
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/notseegod.html
This includes a personal witness of the author.
Evidence on the power of prayer for physical healing (data included):
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/prayer.html
Scientific studies showing a positive effect of religion on health:
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/prayer.html
Hmm... religion can make you healthier... sounds to me like I'm insane for
that :p
And finally, a summary page of all of the articles outside of those I
provided:
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/answers.html#Supernatural
This included Common criticisms, common objections to Christianity, common
atheist's myths, and articles detailing the evidence of the Divine.
One last thing you may snap back concerning Einstein:
"Einstein didn't believe in a personal god!" or something along those
lines... here is an article describing it in words better than I can:
http://www.godandscience.org/apologetics/einstein.html
Lastly, if you still deam all of this evidence I have provided non-objective
and illogical, I am glad that you disagree with some of the greatest
scientists and philosophers of our time. Copernicus, Galileo, Kelvin,
Einstein, etc... they must have all been insane fools for believing in the
existence of some form of the Divine. You claim I am insane for believing
in God and I offer no "objective" proof. I do not need to, since those who
came before me such as these great minds have already offered enough sound
evidence. I believe in God because God is the order behind creation.
Regardless of how silly it may sound to you, I have a developed a personal
relationship with the God I have come to know. I wouldn't be so quick to
dismiss that if I were you. To do so would display that you believe
yourselves to be more intelligent than some of the greatest scientific
thinkers and philosophers throughout history.
-RS
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| User: "Cary Kittrell" |
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| Title: Re: You have asked for proof for the existence of God: here is some. |
03 Feb 2005 10:25:27 AM |
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In article <di0301t6e4tb8uocgdhmhp2tj6icg735ug@4ax.com> Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> writes:
On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 00:25:27 +0000 (UTC),
(Cary Kittrell) in news message <ctrr1n$6m7$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu>
wrote:
In article <B%dMd.18516$8Q.14326@okepread06> "Bill Gamelson" <bgamelson@cox.net> writes:
If it is a gift with no strings attached, I take the $100,000, buy my
own slot machine, and let other gullible people risk their money
Allright! Good choice! With the odds slightly in the favor of the house of
winning anything at all, and the odds greatly against winning the jackpot on
one pull, it is a very wise decision to take the money and run.
But applying this same logic, this leads to something that the atheist is
doing that is very foolish.
The odds of the human body evolving as science explains it in an earth
capable of sustaining human life and a goesynchronys sun and moon within a
universe that sustains this geosynchronisity that began as science explains
it in the big bang is about the same odds as taking a rifle at one end of
the universe and firing a bullet to the other side of the universe and
nailing a one inch target on the first shot.
However, the atheist is willing to bet his entire life and the rest of
eternity in the assumption that this is exactly what happened.
The missing bit, of coure, is that no one has handed us anything
of the sort. We keep hearing rumors of this sudden benficence,
but peer though we may, the people spreading these rumors
simply appear to be no better off than we.
And then there are all those OTHER rumon-mongers, the ones
who keep shrieking that not only is the purported $100,000
a complete scam, they also know this other Guy, the one
who'll give us ever so much more... unless we ***** Him
off by falling for that old $100,000 in the hand ruse.
(incidentally, what in the world is a `geosynchronous [I'm guessing]
sun and moon", and why do we want one?)
It's a big word he heard once, and he thinks it makes him look smart
to use it. If the Sun were really geosynchronous, the noon side of
the globe would be really hot. Talk about your PF 4400 sunscreen.
You think? I was guessing, since he said the sun and the moon,
that he was on about the fact that the sun and the moon are
the same apparent size, as viewed from the earth. I mean,
whatever ARE the odds of that. Ergo: God.
Or not...
-- cary
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| User: "Liz" |
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| Title: Re: You have asked for proof for the existence of God: here is some. |
04 Feb 2005 07:00:03 AM |
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On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 16:25:27 +0000 (UTC),
(Cary Kittrell) in news message <cttj9n$rfg$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu>
wrote:
In article <di0301t6e4tb8uocgdhmhp2tj6icg735ug@4ax.com> Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> writes:
On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 00:25:27 +0000 (UTC),
(Cary Kittrell) in news message <ctrr1n$6m7$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu>
wrote:
In article <B%dMd.18516$8Q.14326@okepread06> "Bill Gamelson" <bgamelson@cox.net> writes:
[-----]
The odds of the human body evolving as science explains it in an earth
capable of sustaining human life and a goesynchronys sun and moon within a
universe that sustains this geosynchronisity that began as science explains
it in the big bang is about the same odds as taking a rifle at one end of
the universe and firing a bullet to the other side of the universe and
nailing a one inch target on the first shot.
[-----]
(incidentally, what in the world is a `geosynchronous [I'm guessing]
sun and moon", and why do we want one?)
It's a big word he heard once, and he thinks it makes him look smart
to use it. If the Sun were really geosynchronous, the noon side of
the globe would be really hot. Talk about your PF 4400 sunscreen.
You think? I was guessing, since he said the sun and the moon,
that he was on about the fact that the sun and the moon are
the same apparent size, as viewed from the earth. I mean,
whatever ARE the odds of that. Ergo: God.
I'm not sure what Bill meant by his odd phrasing, but then probably
neither does Bill, but we all love the sound of the word
"geosynchronicity".
Or not...
Liz #658 BAAWA
"The Bible is a wonderful source of inspiration for those
who don't understand it." -- George Santayana
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| User: "thomas p" |
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| Title: Re: You have asked for proof for the existence of God: here is some. |
04 Feb 2005 03:44:53 PM |
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On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 13:00:03 GMT, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote:
On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 16:25:27 +0000 (UTC),
(Cary Kittrell) in news message <cttj9n$rfg$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu>
wrote:
In article <di0301t6e4tb8uocgdhmhp2tj6icg735ug@4ax.com> Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> writes:
On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 00:25:27 +0000 (UTC),
(Cary Kittrell) in news message <ctrr1n$6m7$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu>
wrote:
In article <B%dMd.18516$8Q.14326@okepread06> "Bill Gamelson" <bgamelson@cox.net> writes:
[-----]
The odds of the human body evolving as science explains it in an earth
capable of sustaining human life and a goesynchronys sun and moon within a
universe that sustains this geosynchronisity that began as science explains
it in the big bang is about the same odds as taking a rifle at one end of
the universe and firing a bullet to the other side of the universe and
nailing a one inch target on the first shot.
[-----]
(incidentally, what in the world is a `geosynchronous [I'm guessing]
sun and moon", and why do we want one?)
It's a big word he heard once, and he thinks it makes him look smart
to use it. If the Sun were really geosynchronous, the noon side of
the globe would be really hot. Talk about your PF 4400 sunscreen.
You think? I was guessing, since he said the sun and the moon,
that he was on about the fact that the sun and the moon are
the same apparent size, as viewed from the earth. I mean,
whatever ARE the odds of that. Ergo: God.
I'm not sure what Bill meant by his odd phrasing, but then probably
neither does Bill, but we all love the sound of the word
"geosynchronicity".
I had to take a tranquilizer to calm down after I heard it.
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| User: "Liz" |
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| Title: Re: You have asked for proof for the existence of God: here is some. |
04 Feb 2005 05:15:56 PM |
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On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 22:44:53 +0100, thomas p
<tonyofbexarnospam@yahoo.dk> in news message
<hhp701harqmii4q4j12hbbnuv1ehktetii@4ax.com> wrote:
On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 13:00:03 GMT, Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> wrote:
On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 16:25:27 +0000 (UTC),
(Cary Kittrell) in news message <cttj9n$rfg$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu>
wrote:
In article <di0301t6e4tb8uocgdhmhp2tj6icg735ug@4ax.com> Liz <ehuth1@donotspam.com> writes:
On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 00:25:27 +0000 (UTC),
(Cary Kittrell) in news message <ctrr1n$6m7$1@onion.ccit.arizona.edu>
wrote:
In article <B%dMd.18516$8Q.14326@okepread06> "Bill Gamelson" <bgamelson@cox.net> writes:
[-----]
The odds of the human body evolving as science explains it in an earth
capable of sustaining human life and a goesynchronys sun and moon within a
universe that sustains this geosynchronisity that began as science explains
it in the big bang is about the same odds as taking a rifle at one end of
the universe and firing a bullet to the other side of the universe and
nailing a one inch target on the first shot.
[-----]
(incidentally, what in the world is a `geosynchronous [I'm guessing]
sun and moon", and why do we want one?)
It's a big word he heard once, and he thinks it makes him look smart
to use it. If the Sun were really geosynchronous, the noon side of
the globe would be really hot. Talk about your PF 4400 sunscreen.
You think? I was guessing, since he said the sun and the moon,
that he was on about the fact that the sun and the moon are
the same apparent size, as viewed from the earth. I mean,
whatever ARE the odds of that. Ergo: God.
I'm not sure what Bill meant by his odd phrasing, but then probably
neither does Bill, but we all love the sound of the word
"geosynchronicity".
I had to take a tranquilizer to calm down after I heard it.
Oh don't I know it! I have never been so glad that I decided to
include the bidet in the bathroom remodel.
Überwench #658 Now a *real* atheist!
Dame Liz the Undaunted Ath.D BAAWA
Charter Member of SMASH
and Queen of the known universe
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: You have asked for proof for the existence of God: here is some. |
03 Feb 2005 12:24:53 AM |
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On Thu, 3 Feb 2005 00:25:27 +0000 (UTC),
(Cary Kittrell) said in alt.atheism:
(incidentally, what in the world is a `geosynchronous [I'm guessing]
sun and moon", and why do we want one?)
'Geosynchronous' refers to a satellite appearing to remain over a
fixed point on Earth (by means of being in an approximately 22,000+
mile high orbit). The moon's too far away to be geosynchronous, and
the sun's not a satellite so it couldn't be - so, as with most of
Bill's post, it's just an attempt to sound scientific. An attempt
that doesn't come off.
--
"Does it ever amaze anyone else how little faith some heterosexuals have
in heterosexuality? It's supposed to be this god-given human instinct
that only the warped and perverted ever stray from; but, it seems, if we
once tell our straight children a message even as mild as "some people
are gay, and that's all right," that'll be enough to send lil' Suzy into
the arms of women forever. It's a wonder the race has survived this
long, really..."
- Charles M Seaton (21 Dec 1994)
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "Liz" |
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| Title: Re: You have asked for proof for the existence of God: here is some. |
02 Feb 2005 07:42:46 PM |
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On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 18:12:08 -0600, "Bill Gamelson" <bgamelson@cox.net>
in news message <B%dMd.18516$8Q.14326@okepread06> wrote:
If it is a gift with no strings attached, I take the $100,000, buy my
own slot machine, and let other gullible people risk their money
Allright! Good choice! With the odds slightly in the favor of the house of
winning anything at all, and the odds greatly against winning the jackpot on
one pull, it is a very wise decision to take the money and run.
But applying this same logic, this leads to something that the atheist is
doing that is very foolish.
The odds of the human body evolving as science explains it in an earth
capable of sustaining human life and a goesynchronys sun and moon within a
universe that sustains this geosynchronisity that began as science explains
it in the big bang is about the same odds as taking a rifle at one end of
the universe and firing a bullet to the other side of the universe and
nailing a one inch target on the first shot.
The odds of human life developing and the Earth being where it is are
1:1. We and the Earth are here. Or haven't you noticed.
However, the atheist is willing to bet his entire life and the rest of
eternity in the assumption that this is exactly what happened.
That has nothing to do with my disbelief in GodŽ.
Pretty foolish when the same atheist will not bet double or nothing on
$100,000 dollars on a pull of the slot machine which has astronomically
better odds.
That's because, for purposes of the discussion, I had the money in
hand. As far as anyone can tell, GodŽ is nowhere in existence. I
know that money does exist. The same can't be said of your
undetectable deity. Provide some objective evidence that GodŽ exists
and you might have a proper analogy. In the meantime, I will continue
to disbelieve you just as I disbelieved the mere offer of $100,000.
You really can't believe everything that anyone tells you, you know.
People will try and make you believe the most outlandish things.
Liz #658 BAAWA
Many...freely confess that they believe what it makes them
feel good to believe. Evidence doesn't play much of a role.
They are alleviating their fear of randomness by identifying
regularities that are not there. - Murray Gell-Mann
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| User: "Bill Gamelson" |
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| Title: Re: You have asked for proof for the existence of God: here is some. |
02 Feb 2005 08:21:52 PM |
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The odds of human life developing and the Earth being where it is are
1:1. We and the Earth are here. Or haven't you noticed.
ROFL!! The fact that we are here has nothing to do with the odds of us
making it here.
Try again.
However, the atheist is willing to bet his entire life and the rest of
eternity in the assumption that this is exactly what happened.
That has nothing to do with my disbelief in GodŽ.
Yes it does.
That's because, for purposes of the discussion, I had the money in
hand. As far as anyone can tell, GodŽ is nowhere in existence.
That's because you have no faith.
I'm curious: Why do you keep putting a registered mark at the end of the
name God?
--
The trial of Jesus:
http://www.law.umkc.edu/faculty/projects/ftrials/jesus/jesus.html
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| User: "Michael Altarriba" |
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| Title: Re: You have asked for proof for the existence of God: here is some. |
04 Feb 2005 11:20:42 AM |
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Bill Gamelson wrote:
The odds of human life developing and the Earth being where it is are
1:1. We and the Earth are here. Or haven't you noticed.
ROFL!! The fact that we are here has nothing to do with the odds of
us
making it here.
Try again.
For information on the probablility of life, go to:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/abioprob/
You'll find plenty of information there as to the question of "the odds
of human life developing."
If, on the other hand, you have actual probability calculations that
give a numerical result that indicates human life is highly improbable,
please show us your calculations... I, for one, would be very
interested in seeing them.
However, the atheist is willing to bet his entire life and the rest
of
eternity in the assumption that this is exactly what happened.
That has nothing to do with my disbelief in God=AE.
Yes it does.
You are referring to "Pascal's Wager":
http://www.iep.utm.edu/p/pasc-wag.htm
The short answer is that there are plenty of grounds for deciding that
the "bet" you refer to isn't what you think it is.
That's because, for purposes of the discussion, I had the money in
hand. As far as anyone can tell, God=AE is nowhere in existence.
That's because you have no faith.
And, if you'll look up at the title of this discussion thread, "You
asked for proof of the existence of God: here is some", we came here
looking for actual proof, not assertions of faith.
So far, no proof has actually been produced. We've seen assertions and
badly flawed logic, but no proof.
<snip>
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: You have asked for proof for the existence of God: here is some. |
03 Feb 2005 08:02:54 AM |
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Bill Gamelson wrote:
The odds of human life developing and the Earth being where it is are
1:1. We and the Earth are here. Or haven't you noticed.
ROFL!! The fact that we are here has nothing to do with the odds of
us
making it here.
Try again.
The "odds of us making it here" (by which I assume you mean your
perceived liklihood of human life emerging) are exactly 1, since we are
here. It's like dropping a bowling ball on to the floor, and then
wondering, after you've seen the ball hit the floor, what the odds were
on the bowling ball hitting the floor. Er...1 (mind your foot!).
What religious people try to do is fit a supernatural explanation on to
the observable facts because they have an inability to accept a
non-anthropomorphic explanation for things they find complex. Here's a
hint: "complexity" is a human construct. It makes *no sense* outside
a human context.
However, the atheist is willing to bet his entire life and the rest
of
eternity in the assumption that this is exactly what happened.
That has nothing to do with my disbelief in God=AE.
Yes it does.
No. It's not a bet, as far as we can tell - there's no objective
evidence to suggest we are making a bet.
Here's how I feel about religion: there's a lot of phone-scams in the
UK at the moment, where people are called up and an automated message
tells them they've won a competition, and they have a great prize.
All they have to do is call another number and they can have the prize
delivered. This other number is a premium-rate line (which is
announced as soon as the call is connected) where another automated
message blathers at the hapless caller, telling them how great the
prize will be, for long enough to rack up about 10 UK pounds worth of
usage from them. Then it gives a spurious claim number, assures them
that the prize is on its way, and rings off. And, of course, the prize
never arrives.
The caller has absolutely no evidence they will get a prize. They have
no recollection of even entering the competition (because they didn't).
They simply have "faith", on the basis of the apparent authority of
the caller, that this will happen. And it *sounds* so good; it would
be really nice if it were true; they *want* to believe it...so they do.
But they know they're losing money - resources - to realise their
expectation of a return.
When I get one of these calls, I put the phone down. Even if there
*were* a prize, I'm not prepared to expend resources solely on the
basis of someone's word, and without corroborative evidence. I'm
making a definite loss for a possible return. And I've had lots of
these calls from all sorts of different companies, all promising
similar great prizes - even if one was really true, they can't *all* be
true, and I have no way of determining which one might be.
Religion claims a great prize is waiting for those willing to expend
resources (time, and the freedom to think and act independently of
religious dogma) on the realisation of this prize. But there's no
independent evidence for the prize existing. My time is a resource.
My freedom to think and act independently is a resource. I'm not
prepared to expend either on the religious scam-call.
Incidentally, I assume you know your argument is a rehash of Pascal's
Wager? There are many refutations on the web, so I won't waste time on
that here.
That's because, for purposes of the discussion, I had the money in
hand. As far as anyone can tell, God=AE is nowhere in existence.
=20
That's because you have no faith.
See above re. "faith".
Steve
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| User: "William T. Goat" |
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| Title: Re: You have asked for proof for the existence of God: here is some. |
05 Feb 2005 05:39:11 PM |
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Bill Gamelson wrote:
However, the atheist is willing to bet his entire life and the rest
of
eternity in the assumption that this is exactly what happened.
That has nothing to do with my disbelief in God=AE.
=20
Yes it does.
Beliefs are not bets.
--Billy
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| User: "Michelle Malkin" |
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| Title: Re: You have asked for proof for the existence of God: here is some. |
06 Feb 2005 01:50:41 AM |
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"William T. Goat" <ericvonl@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:1107646751.719247.196510@l41g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Bill Gamelson wrote:
However, the atheist is willing to bet his entire life and the rest
of
eternity in the assumption that this is exactly what happened.
That has nothing to do with my disbelief in GodŽ.
Yes it does.
Beliefs are not bets.
In the cases of theists, religious beliefs are personal stupidity.
--
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
Michelle Malkin (Mickey) aa list#1
alt.atheism atheist/agnostic list name collector
BAAWA Knight & EAC Bible thumper thumper
http://questioner.www2.50megs.com
^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^ ^^
--Billy
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| User: "GlennGlenn" |
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| Title: Re: You have asked for proof for the existence of God: here is some. |
03 Feb 2005 02:04:48 AM |
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In article <oVfMd.18540$8Q.1907@okepread06>, Bill Gamelson
<bgamelson@cox.net> wrote:
I'm curious: Why do you keep putting a registered mark at the end of the
name God?
The more important question: Do you pour milk or cream on your GodŽ
Flakes in the morning?
--
GlennGlenn -- aa#825 --
I am not famous, I am notorious. And if I am rich, it is because I have taken
my wages in people.
Quentin Crisp
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| User: "Liz" |
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| Title: Re: You have asked for proof for the existence of God: here is some. |
03 Feb 2005 05:36:47 AM |
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On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 20:21:52 -0600, "Bill Gamelson" <bgamelson@cox.net>
in news message <oVfMd.18540$8Q.1907@okepread06> wrote:
The odds of human life developing and the Earth being where it is are
1:1. We and the Earth are here. Or haven't you noticed.
ROFL!! The fact that we are here has nothing to do with the odds of us
making it here.
Try again.
No really, Bill. It's true. There is no need to try again.
However, the atheist is willing to bet his entire life and the rest of
eternity in the assumption that this is exactly what happened.
That has nothing to do with my disbelief in GodŽ.
Yes it does.
No it doesn't. Try again.
That's because, for purposes of the discussion, I had the money in
hand. As far as anyone can tell, GodŽ is nowhere in existence.
That's because you have no faith.
Finally! You actually got one right. I have no faith. It took you a
while to figure that one out. There may be hope for you yet. <does
little dance>
I'm curious: Why do you keep putting a registered mark at the end of the
name God?
To distinguish the god named GodŽ from other gods not named GodŽ in
order to avoid confusion. Most Christians think only their GodŽ is
real and other gods don't exist, when all proposed transcendent gods
fit in the same existential category. Therefore, when I talk about God
(minus the registered trademark sign), Christians may think that I am
talking about their specific GodŽ when I am not.
Liz #658 BAAWA
Noone can break my faith, if the bible said
that the sky was greenish pink, then i would look up
and see greenish pink. - anonymous Christian
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: You have asked for proof for the existence of God: here is some. |
03 Feb 2005 12:27:07 AM |
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On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 20:21:52 -0600, "Bill Gamelson" <bgamelson@cox.net>
said in alt.atheism:
The odds of human life developing and the Earth being where it is are
1:1. We and the Earth are here. Or haven't you noticed.
ROFL!! The fact that we are here has nothing to do with the odds of us
making it here.
Oh, you don't understand the math of odds? The odds of something
that's already happened are 1, or 100%.
That's because, for purposes of the discussion, I had the money in
hand. As far as anyone can tell, GodŽ is nowhere in existence.
That's because you have no faith.
No, it's because there's no objective evidence that any god
objectively exists. Feel free to post any you might have.
--
"I can't activate two neurons simultaneously, and I vote"
- The theistic majority
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: You have asked for proof for the existence of God: here is some. |
04 Feb 2005 10:40:36 AM |
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On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 20:21:52 -0600, "Bill Gamelson" <bgamelson@cox.net>
wrote:
The odds of human life developing and the Earth being where it is are
1:1. We and the Earth are here. Or haven't you noticed.
ROFL!! The fact that we are here has nothing to do with the odds of us
making it here.
Try again.
Actually, it does.
However, the atheist is willing to bet his entire life and the rest of
eternity in the assumption that this is exactly what happened.
That has nothing to do with my disbelief in GodŽ.
Yes it does.
False witness noted.
That's because, for purposes of the discussion, I had the money in
hand. As far as anyone can tell, GodŽ is nowhere in existence.
That's because you have no faith.
No *****, Sherlock!
I'm curious: Why do you keep putting a registered mark at the end of the
name God?
Might be because its a business which is quite prophetable for the
unscrupulous.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: You have asked for proof for the existence of God: here is some. |
03 Feb 2005 12:21:28 AM |
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On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 18:12:08 -0600, "Bill Gamelson" <bgamelson@cox.net>
said in alt.atheism:
But applying this same logic, this leads to something that the atheist is
doing that is very foolish.
The odds of the human body evolving as science explains it in an earth
capable of sustaining human life and a goesynchronys sun and moon within a
universe that sustains this geosynchronisity
The odds of something that happens happening are 100%.
Evolution happens. Accept it and move on.
--
Zymurgist # 2
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "John Baker" |
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| Title: Re: You have asked for proof for the existence of God: here is some. |
03 Feb 2005 01:29:36 AM |
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On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 18:12:08 -0600, "Bill Gamelson" <bgamelson@cox.net>
wrote:
If it is a gift with no strings attached, I take the $100,000, buy my
own slot machine, and let other gullible people risk their money
Allright! Good choice! With the odds slightly in the favor of the house of
winning anything at all, and the odds greatly against winning the jackpot on
one pull, it is a very wise decision to take the money and run.
But applying this same logic, this leads to something that the atheist is
doing that is very foolish.
The odds of the human body evolving as science explains it in an earth
capable of sustaining human life and a goesynchronys sun and moon within a
universe that sustains this geosynchronisity that began as science explains
it in the big bang is about the same odds as taking a rifle at one end of
the universe and firing a bullet to the other side of the universe and
nailing a one inch target on the first shot.
However, the atheist is willing to bet his entire life and the rest of
eternity in the assumption that this is exactly what happened.
Pretty foolish when the same atheist will not bet double or nothing on
$100,000 dollars on a pull of the slot machine which has astronomically
better odds.
<sigh> Are all Christians as stupid as the ones who post here?
.
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| User: "Liz" |
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| Title: Re: You have asked for proof for the existence of God: here is some. |
03 Feb 2005 05:41:01 AM |
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On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 07:29:36 GMT, John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net> in
news message <a7l301933us4kfrhkfd1u5804sm3slcaon@4ax.com> wrote:
On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 18:12:08 -0600, "Bill Gamelson" <bgamelson@cox.net>
wrote:
If it is a gift with no strings attached, I take the $100,000, buy my
own slot machine, and let other gullible people risk their money
Allright! Good choice! With the odds slightly in the favor of the house of
winning anything at all, and the odds greatly against winning the jackpot on
one pull, it is a very wise decision to take the money and run.
But applying this same logic, this leads to something that the atheist is
doing that is very foolish.
The odds of the human body evolving as science explains it in an earth
capable of sustaining human life and a goesynchronys sun and moon within a
universe that sustains this geosynchronisity that began as science explains
it in the big bang is about the same odds as taking a rifle at one end of
the universe and firing a bullet to the other side of the universe and
nailing a one inch target on the first shot.
However, the atheist is willing to bet his entire life and the rest of
eternity in the assumption that this is exactly what happened.
Pretty foolish when the same atheist will not bet double or nothing on
$100,000 dollars on a pull of the slot machine which has astronomically
better odds.
<sigh> Are all Christians as stupid as the ones who post here?
No, John, but it does seem like that sometimes, doesn't it.
Liz #658 BAAWA
I think that naming your ignorance God and pretending that,
having named it, you have converted ignorance to knowledge
is a sorry approach to the unknown. -- John Popelish
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: You have asked for proof for the existence of God: here is some. |
04 Feb 2005 01:35:45 AM |
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On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 07:29:36 GMT, John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net> said
in alt.atheism:
<sigh> Are all Christians as stupid as the ones who post here?
It's mainly the stupid ones who post here. Although there are, and
have been, those who aren't.
--
"Atheism is the world of reality, it is reason, it is freedom. Atheism is human
concern, and intellectual honesty to a degree that the religious mind cannot
begin to understand. And yet it is more than this. Atheism is not an old
religion, it is not a new and coming religion, in fact it is not, and never has
been, a religion at all. The definition of Atheism is magnificent in its
simplicity: Atheism is merely the bed-rock of sanity in a world of madness."
[Atheism: An Affirmative View, by Emmett F. Fields]
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
.
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| User: "John Baker" |
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| Title: Re: You have asked for proof for the existence of God: here is some. |
04 Feb 2005 02:22:08 AM |
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On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 07:35:45 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>
wrote:
On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 07:29:36 GMT, John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net> said
in alt.atheism:
<sigh> Are all Christians as stupid as the ones who post here?
It's mainly the stupid ones who post here. Although there are, and
have been, those who aren't.
Oh, I know not all Christians are stupid, or arrogant, or
self-righteous shits. But sometimes it seems like we attract the worst
of the worst.
.
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| User: "Al Klein" |
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| Title: Re: You have asked for proof for the existence of God: here is some. |
04 Feb 2005 03:33:58 PM |
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On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 08:22:08 GMT, John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net> said
in alt.atheism:
On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 07:35:45 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>
wrote:
On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 07:29:36 GMT, John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net> said
in alt.atheism:
<sigh> Are all Christians as stupid as the ones who post here?
It's mainly the stupid ones who post here. Although there are, and
have been, those who aren't.
Oh, I know not all Christians are stupid, or arrogant, or
self-righteous shits. But sometimes it seems like we attract the worst
of the worst.
That's true - we do. They can get abuse points for posting their
nonsense here.
--
"Properly read, the Bible is the most potent force for atheism ever conceived."
- Isaac Asimov
(random sig, produced by SigChanger)
rukbat at verizon dot net
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: You have asked for proof for the existence of God: here is some. |
04 Feb 2005 10:43:09 AM |
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On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 08:22:08 GMT, John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote:
On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 07:35:45 GMT, Al Klein <rukbat@pern.invalid>
wrote:
On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 07:29:36 GMT, John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net> said
in alt.atheism:
<sigh> Are all Christians as stupid as the ones who post here?
It's mainly the stupid ones who post here. Although there are, and
have been, those who aren't.
Oh, I know not all Christians are stupid, or arrogant, or
self-righteous shits. But sometimes it seems like we attract the worst
of the worst.
Because we're a hefty 'threat' to them.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: You have asked for proof for the existence of God: here is some. |
04 Feb 2005 10:42:31 AM |
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On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 07:29:36 GMT, John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote:
On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 18:12:08 -0600, "Bill Gamelson" <bgamelson@cox.net>
wrote:
If it is a gift with no strings attached, I take the $100,000, buy my
own slot machine, and let other gullible people risk their money
Allright! Good choice! With the odds slightly in the favor of the house of
winning anything at all, and the odds greatly against winning the jackpot on
one pull, it is a very wise decision to take the money and run.
But applying this same logic, this leads to something that the atheist is
doing that is very foolish.
The odds of the human body evolving as science explains it in an earth
capable of sustaining human life and a goesynchronys sun and moon within a
universe that sustains this geosynchronisity that began as science explains
it in the big bang is about the same odds as taking a rifle at one end of
the universe and firing a bullet to the other side of the universe and
nailing a one inch target on the first shot.
However, the atheist is willing to bet his entire life and the rest of
eternity in the assumption that this is exactly what happened.
Pretty foolish when the same atheist will not bet double or nothing on
$100,000 dollars on a pull of the slot machine which has astronomically
better odds.
<sigh> Are all Christians as stupid as the ones who post here?
Clearly not. There's many intelligent enough to not bother those
outside their religion.
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
.
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| User: "thomas p" |
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| Title: Re: You have asked for proof for the existence of God: here is some. |
04 Feb 2005 03:44:51 PM |
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On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 08:42:31 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 07:29:36 GMT, John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote:
On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 18:12:08 -0600, "Bill Gamelson" <bgamelson@cox.net>
wrote:
If it is a gift with no strings attached, I take the $100,000, buy my
own slot machine, and let other gullible people risk their money
Allright! Good choice! With the odds slightly in the favor of the house of
winning anything at all, and the odds greatly against winning the jackpot on
one pull, it is a very wise decision to take the money and run.
But applying this same logic, this leads to something that the atheist is
doing that is very foolish.
The odds of the human body evolving as science explains it in an earth
capable of sustaining human life and a goesynchronys sun and moon within a
universe that sustains this geosynchronisity that began as science explains
it in the big bang is about the same odds as taking a rifle at one end of
the universe and firing a bullet to the other side of the universe and
nailing a one inch target on the first shot.
However, the atheist is willing to bet his entire life and the rest of
eternity in the assumption that this is exactly what happened.
Pretty foolish when the same atheist will not bet double or nothing on
$100,000 dollars on a pull of the slot machine which has astronomically
better odds.
<sigh> Are all Christians as stupid as the ones who post here?
Clearly not. There's many intelligent enough to not bother those
outside their religion.
That is very true, but is it consistent with their beliefs?
Tony
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: You have asked for proof for the existence of God: here is some. |
05 Feb 2005 11:24:37 AM |
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On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 22:44:51 +0100, thomas p
<tonyofbexarnospam@yahoo.dk> wrote:
On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 08:42:31 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 07:29:36 GMT, John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote:
On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 18:12:08 -0600, "Bill Gamelson" <bgamelson@cox.net>
wrote:
If it is a gift with no strings attached, I take the $100,000, buy my
own slot machine, and let other gullible people risk their money
Allright! Good choice! With the odds slightly in the favor of the house of
winning anything at all, and the odds greatly against winning the jackpot on
one pull, it is a very wise decision to take the money and run.
But applying this same logic, this leads to something that the atheist is
doing that is very foolish.
The odds of the human body evolving as science explains it in an earth
capable of sustaining human life and a goesynchronys sun and moon within a
universe that sustains this geosynchronisity that began as science explains
it in the big bang is about the same odds as taking a rifle at one end of
the universe and firing a bullet to the other side of the universe and
nailing a one inch target on the first shot.
However, the atheist is willing to bet his entire life and the rest of
eternity in the assumption that this is exactly what happened.
Pretty foolish when the same atheist will not bet double or nothing on
$100,000 dollars on a pull of the slot machine which has astronomically
better odds.
<sigh> Are all Christians as stupid as the ones who post here?
Clearly not. There's many intelligent enough to not bother those
outside their religion.
That is very true, but is it consistent with their beliefs?
Why wouldn't it be?
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
.
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| User: "thomas p" |
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| Title: Re: You have asked for proof for the existence of God: here is some. |
05 Feb 2005 12:56:46 PM |
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On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 09:24:37 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 22:44:51 +0100, thomas p
<tonyofbexarnospam@yahoo.dk> wrote:
On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 08:42:31 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 07:29:36 GMT, John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote:
On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 18:12:08 -0600, "Bill Gamelson" <bgamelson@cox.net>
wrote:
If it is a gift with no strings attached, I take the $100,000, buy my
own slot machine, and let other gullible people risk their money
Allright! Good choice! With the odds slightly in the favor of the house of
winning anything at all, and the odds greatly against winning the jackpot on
one pull, it is a very wise decision to take the money and run.
But applying this same logic, this leads to something that the atheist is
doing that is very foolish.
The odds of the human body evolving as science explains it in an earth
capable of sustaining human life and a goesynchronys sun and moon within a
universe that sustains this geosynchronisity that began as science explains
it in the big bang is about the same odds as taking a rifle at one end of
the universe and firing a bullet to the other side of the universe and
nailing a one inch target on the first shot.
However, the atheist is willing to bet his entire life and the rest of
eternity in the assumption that this is exactly what happened.
Pretty foolish when the same atheist will not bet double or nothing on
$100,000 dollars on a pull of the slot machine which has astronomically
better odds.
<sigh> Are all Christians as stupid as the ones who post here?
Clearly not. There's many intelligent enough to not bother those
outside their religion.
That is very true, but is it consistent with their beliefs?
Why wouldn't it be?
Because Jesus is supposed to be an objectively real person, who was
god made man; and he is supposed to have an incredibly important
message that is to be delivered to all of mankind, a message that is
to be passed on by his followers. Even the very liberal ones tend to
make sure that their children are taught to be Christian.
.
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| User: "stoney" |
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| Title: Re: You have asked for proof for the existence of God: here is some. |
06 Feb 2005 12:09:59 PM |
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On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 19:56:46 +0100, thomas p
<tonyofbexarnospam@yahoo.dk> wrote:
On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 09:24:37 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 22:44:51 +0100, thomas p
<tonyofbexarnospam@yahoo.dk> wrote:
On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 08:42:31 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 07:29:36 GMT, John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote:
On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 18:12:08 -0600, "Bill Gamelson" <bgamelson@cox.net>
wrote:
If it is a gift with no strings attached, I take the $100,000, buy my
own slot machine, and let other gullible people risk their money
Allright! Good choice! With the odds slightly in the favor of the house of
winning anything at all, and the odds greatly against winning the jackpot on
one pull, it is a very wise decision to take the money and run.
But applying this same logic, this leads to something that the atheist is
doing that is very foolish.
The odds of the human body evolving as science explains it in an earth
capable of sustaining human life and a goesynchronys sun and moon within a
universe that sustains this geosynchronisity that began as science explains
it in the big bang is about the same odds as taking a rifle at one end of
the universe and firing a bullet to the other side of the universe and
nailing a one inch target on the first shot.
However, the atheist is willing to bet his entire life and the rest of
eternity in the assumption that this is exactly what happened.
Pretty foolish when the same atheist will not bet double or nothing on
$100,000 dollars on a pull of the slot machine which has astronomically
better odds.
<sigh> Are all Christians as stupid as the ones who post here?
Clearly not. There's many intelligent enough to not bother those
outside their religion.
That is very true, but is it consistent with their beliefs?
Why wouldn't it be?
Because Jesus is supposed to be an objectively real person, who was
god made man; and he is supposed to have an incredibly important
message that is to be delivered to all of mankind, a message that is
to be passed on by his followers. Even the very liberal ones tend to
make sure that their children are taught to be Christian.
And yet the 'incredibly important message' is viewed differently by
different christians. That's why I asked 'why wouldn't it be?'
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
.
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| User: "thomas p" |
|
| Title: Re: You have asked for proof for the existence of God: here is some. |
06 Feb 2005 02:58:16 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 10:09:59 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 19:56:46 +0100, thomas p
<tonyofbexarnospam@yahoo.dk> wrote:
On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 09:24:37 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 22:44:51 +0100, thomas p
<tonyofbexarnospam@yahoo.dk> wrote:
On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 08:42:31 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 07:29:36 GMT, John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote:
On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 18:12:08 -0600, "Bill Gamelson" <bgamelson@cox.net>
wrote:
If it is a gift with no strings attached, I take the $100,000, buy my
own slot machine, and let other gullible people risk their money
Allright! Good choice! With the odds slightly in the favor of the house of
winning anything at all, and the odds greatly against winning the jackpot on
one pull, it is a very wise decision to take the money and run.
But applying this same logic, this leads to something that the atheist is
doing that is very foolish.
The odds of the human body evolving as science explains it in an earth
capable of sustaining human life and a goesynchronys sun and moon within a
universe that sustains this geosynchronisity that began as science explains
it in the big bang is about the same odds as taking a rifle at one end of
the universe and firing a bullet to the other side of the universe and
nailing a one inch target on the first shot.
However, the atheist is willing to bet his entire life and the rest of
eternity in the assumption that this is exactly what happened.
Pretty foolish when the same atheist will not bet double or nothing on
$100,000 dollars on a pull of the slot machine which has astronomically
better odds.
<sigh> Are all Christians as stupid as the ones who post here?
Clearly not. There's many intelligent enough to not bother those
outside their religion.
That is very true, but is it consistent with their beliefs?
Why wouldn't it be?
Because Jesus is supposed to be an objectively real person, who was
god made man; and he is supposed to have an incredibly important
message that is to be delivered to all of mankind, a message that is
to be passed on by his followers. Even the very liberal ones tend to
make sure that their children are taught to be Christian.
And yet the 'incredibly important message' is viewed differently by
different christians. That's why I asked 'why wouldn't it be?'
Why would it be important to make sure one's children learn the
"Truth" but not important to inform others? Please understand; I am
grateful that many very fine people who I know and who happen to be
Christians do not not bother me with their beliefs. I was just
curious as to how they justify their silence to themselves. It seems
inconsistent, but, no doubt, they have worked out something that
satisfies them.
.
|
|
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| User: "stoney" |
|
| Title: Re: You have asked for proof for the existence of God: here is some. |
08 Feb 2005 11:49:30 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 21:58:16 +0100, thomas p
<tonyofbexarnospam@yahoo.dk> wrote:
On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 10:09:59 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 19:56:46 +0100, thomas p
<tonyofbexarnospam@yahoo.dk> wrote:
On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 09:24:37 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 22:44:51 +0100, thomas p
<tonyofbexarnospam@yahoo.dk> wrote:
On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 08:42:31 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 07:29:36 GMT, John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote:
On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 18:12:08 -0600, "Bill Gamelson" <bgamelson@cox.net>
wrote:
If it is a gift with no strings attached, I take the $100,000, buy my
own slot machine, and let other gullible people risk their money
Allright! Good choice! With the odds slightly in the favor of the house of
winning anything at all, and the odds greatly against winning the jackpot on
one pull, it is a very wise decision to take the money and run.
But applying this same logic, this leads to something that the atheist is
doing that is very foolish.
The odds of the human body evolving as science explains it in an earth
capable of sustaining human life and a goesynchronys sun and moon within a
universe that sustains this geosynchronisity that began as science explains
it in the big bang is about the same odds as taking a rifle at one end of
the universe and firing a bullet to the other side of the universe and
nailing a one inch target on the first shot.
However, the atheist is willing to bet his entire life and the rest of
eternity in the assumption that this is exactly what happened.
Pretty foolish when the same atheist will not bet double or nothing on
$100,000 dollars on a pull of the slot machine which has astronomically
better odds.
<sigh> Are all Christians as stupid as the ones who post here?
Clearly not. There's many intelligent enough to not bother those
outside their religion.
That is very true, but is it consistent with their beliefs?
Why wouldn't it be?
Because Jesus is supposed to be an objectively real person, who was
god made man; and he is supposed to have an incredibly important
message that is to be delivered to all of mankind, a message that is
to be passed on by his followers. Even the very liberal ones tend to
make sure that their children are taught to be Christian.
And yet the 'incredibly important message' is viewed differently by
different christians. That's why I asked 'why wouldn't it be?'
Why would it be important to make sure one's children learn the
"Truth" but not important to inform others? Please understand; I am
grateful that many very fine people who I know and who happen to be
Christians do not not bother me with their beliefs. I was just
curious as to how they justify their silence to themselves. It seems
inconsistent, but, no doubt, they have worked out something that
satisfies them.
It appears my words are confusing. I'll try again.
Clearly not. There's many intelligent enough to not bother those
outside their religion.
That is very true, but is it consistent with their beliefs?
I asked;
Why wouldn't it be?
Since Christians' beliefs pertain to themselves, why would those who
don't bother those outside their religion not be consistent with their
beliefs?
--
Contempt of Congress meter reading-offscale.
Hello, theocracy with a fundamentalist US Supreme
Court who will ensure church and state are joined
at the hip like clergy and altar boys.
America 1776-Jan 2001 RIP
.
|
|
|
| User: "thomas p" |
|
| Title: Re: You have asked for proof for the existence of God: here is some. |
08 Feb 2005 01:29:48 PM |
|
|
On Tue, 08 Feb 2005 09:49:30 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 21:58:16 +0100, thomas p
<tonyofbexarnospam@yahoo.dk> wrote:
On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 10:09:59 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 19:56:46 +0100, thomas p
<tonyofbexarnospam@yahoo.dk> wrote:
On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 09:24:37 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 22:44:51 +0100, thomas p
<tonyofbexarnospam@yahoo.dk> wrote:
On Fri, 04 Feb 2005 08:42:31 -0800, stoney <stoney@the.net> wrote:
On Thu, 03 Feb 2005 07:29:36 GMT, John Baker <nunya@bizniz.net> wrote:
On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 18:12:08 -0600, "Bill Gamelson" <bgamelson@cox.net>
wrote:
If it is a gift with no strings attached, I take the $100,000, buy my
own slot machine, and let other gullible people risk their money
Allright! Good choice! With the odds slightly in the favor of the house of
winning anything at all, and the odds greatly against winning the jackpot on
one pull, it is a very wise decision to take the money and run.
But applying this same logic, this leads to something that the atheist is
doing that is very foolish.
The odds of the human body evolving as science explains it in an earth
capable of sustaining human life and a goesynchronys sun and moon within a
universe that sustains this geosynchronisity that began as science explains
it in the big bang is about the same odds as taking a rifle at one end of
the universe and firing a bullet to the other side of the universe and
nailing a one inch target on the first shot.
However, the atheist is willing to bet his entire life and the rest of
eternity in the assumption that this is exactly what happened.
Pretty foolish when the same atheist will not bet double or nothing on
$100,000 dollars on a pull of the slot machine which has astronomically
better odds.
<sigh> Are all Christians as stupid as the ones who post here?
Clearly not. There's many intelligent enough to not bother those
outside their religion.
That is very true, but is it consistent with their beliefs?
Why wouldn't it be?
Because Jesus is supposed to be an objectively real person, who was
god made man; and he is supposed to have an incredibly important
message that is to be delivered to all of mankind, a message that is
to be passed on by his followers. Even the very liberal ones tend to
make sure that their children are taught to be Christian.
And yet the 'incredibly important message' is viewed differently by
different christians. That's why I asked 'why wouldn't it be?'
Why would it be important to make sure one's children learn the
"Truth" but not important to inform others? Please understand; I am
grateful that many very fine people who I know and who happen to be
Christians do not not bother me with their beliefs. I was just
curious as to how they justify their silence to themselves. It seems
inconsistent, but, no doubt, they have worked out something that
satisfies them.
It appears my words are confusing. I'll try again.
Clearly not. There's many intelligent enough to not bother those
outside their religion.
That is very true, but is it consistent with their beliefs?
I asked;
Why wouldn't it be?
Since Christians' beliefs pertain to themselves, why would those who
don't bother those outside their religion not be consistent with their
beliefs?
Perhaps because they don't think their beliefs pertain only to
themselves. One of their beliefs would have to be that their religion
represents the will of the "One True God", and that there would be
great benefits connected with knowing and following that will. I have
a good friend who is a priest in the Danish Church. He would not
dream of contacting non-Christians in order to convert them, but he
does believe that Christianity is the religion founded for the benefit
of all mankind by the son of god. I have never pressed him on the
issue, and he has never tried to tell me what I should believe, but
don't you think there is an inconsistency in his position? He does,
after all, read from the Gospels, the Acts of the Apostles or the
"Letters" every Sunday in church, in which the importance of
missionary work (conversion) is very much stressed.
.
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