| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"Thomas Keske" |
| Date: |
12 Dec 2004 12:08:40 PM |
| Object: |
You Were Created by the Three Bears |
Flew finds the conventional explanation that life arose out of a complex
chemical brew or primordial soup "improbable". So he is emulating Socrates
and "following the argument wherever it leads. The conclusion is < there
must have been some intelligence".
Nature makes extremely improbable things happen by throwing
lots of chances at them.
How do you get a planet, not so large that the gravity crushes
everyone, and not too small such that it can't hold an atmosphere?
You have a random explosion that throws debris of all sizes,
some too large, some too small, some just right.
How do you get a planet that is not so hot that everything
melts (like Mercury) and not so cold that nitrogen freezes
(like Pluto)? You have a random explosion that strews
debris at random distances- some too close to the sun,
some too far from it, some just right.
How do you get DNA? Instead of throwing 9 random
chances at it, (like the planets of the solar system),
you throw 99999999 x 10 ^ 99999999999999999999
x 10 ^ 9999999999999999 x 10 ^ 999999999999999999 chances,
and then imagine a number even bigger than that, and
thow that many chances at it, and then keep repeating.
It isn't a benevolent process or a conscious one.
That is why the pain and destruction in the world.
Getting one of the improbable combinations that can sustain
conscious life, at all, is extremely difficult. Most worlds are
completely dead. You wouldn't expect most of the rest to be
happy places.
The "First Cause" argument never answered anything.
It postulates a highly-complex, intelligent Entity
(God), because we supposedly cannot otherwise explain
the existence of an entity (a human being) that is too
complex and intelligent to be explained supposedly
without "design".
The bogus argument is compounding the problem,
with a circularity. The Designer needs a Designer.
The "First Cause" proponents typically try to get around that
with hand-waving and by putting on blinders.
It is wishful thinking and naivety.
You weren't created by the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.
You were created by the Three Bears.
It is a slightly more interesting argument that eventually,
infinite chances would produce a God as we typically
describe. However, it is doubtful that you can crowd
out and limit all the other infinite chances. If you can
imagine a traditional God coming out of infinite chances,
you can also imagine an even bigger, Super-God, eating the
first God like a popcorn kernel. Probably, when you
have the highest orders of infinity, any crazy thing
that you can imagine or describe, at all, probably exists,
somewhere. Weirdness and chaos ultimately rule, except
in tiny corners where chaos produces an illusion of order.
There are no rules to the process- Nature makes up the
rules as it goes along, and tries all possible different rules.
Everything that can happen, does happen. We occupy one
very, very tiny corner of Infinity. Much of the rest of it is even
more freakish than what we see around us.
Tom Keske
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| User: "ernobe" |
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| Title: Re: You Were Created by the Three Bears |
12 Dec 2004 02:03:41 PM |
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... You have a random explosion that strews
debris at random distances- some too close to the sun,
some too far from it, some just right.
Is the sun itself highly improbable?
It isn't a benevolent process or a conscious one.
The sun isn't supposed to be benevolent or conscious.
The "First Cause" argument never answered anything.
There is nothing questionable about the suns existence.
There are no rules to the process- Nature makes up the
rules as it goes along, and tries all possible different rules.
The sun doesn't initiate any processes, it just shines. Rules are given
to man from God.
--
http://www.costarricense.cr/pagina/ernobe
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| User: "Woden" |
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| Title: Re: You Were Created by the Three Bears |
12 Dec 2004 08:36:43 PM |
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ernobe <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote in news:323mgtF3eeqrhU1@individual.net:
... You have a random explosion that strews
debris at random distances- some too close to the sun,
some too far from it, some just right.
Is the sun itself highly improbable?
It appears that there are many billions of similar stars in the universe,
so the sun isn't anything unusual.
It isn't a benevolent process or a conscious one.
The sun isn't supposed to be benevolent or conscious.
No one here claims that it is benevolent or conscious.
The "First Cause" argument never answered anything.
There is nothing questionable about the suns existence.
So what does the existence of the sun have to do with any "first cause"
argument?
There are no rules to the process- Nature makes up the
rules as it goes along, and tries all possible different rules.
The sun doesn't initiate any processes, it just shines.
I would think that delivering a significant amount of energy to the earth
might qualify as a means of "initiating" some processes here. Not to
mention it's gravitational field that keeps us from wandering off into the
darkness of interstellar space. But I would agree that it doesn't
"consciously" initiate any processes.
Rules are given to man from God.
How can an imaginary character give rules to men?
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political system for controlling people's thoughts,
lives and actions based on ancient myths and superstitions, perpetrated
through generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
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| User: "ernobe" |
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| Title: Re: You Were Created by the Three Bears |
12 Dec 2004 10:23:53 PM |
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No one here claims that it is benevolent or conscious.
No one outside of alt.atheism cares whether it is or not. Your imaginary
imaginary characters are getting to your head.
--
http://www.costarricense.cr/pagina/ernobe
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| User: "Woden" |
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| Title: Re: You Were Created by the Three Bears |
12 Dec 2004 10:37:26 PM |
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ernobe <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote in news:324jqpF3hv3hpU1@individual.net:
No one here claims that it is benevolent or conscious.
No one outside of alt.atheism cares whether it is or not. Your imaginary
imaginary characters are getting to your head.
Bwahahahahahahahaha. You're the one coming in here trying to sell your god
as real and you tell us that imaginary characters are getting in our heads.
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political system for controlling people's thoughts,
lives and actions based on ancient myths and superstitions, perpetrated
through generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
.
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| User: "ernobe" |
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| Title: Re: You Were Created by the Three Bears |
12 Dec 2004 11:47:06 PM |
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Bwahahahahahahahaha. You're the one coming in here trying to sell your god
as real and you tell us that imaginary characters are getting in our heads.
Whether I come or go, your gods, it seems, cease not to haunt you.
--
http://www.costarricense.cr/pagina/ernobe
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| User: "Jos Flachs" |
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| Title: Re: You Were Created by the Three Bears |
14 Dec 2004 02:02:35 AM |
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On 13 Dec 2004 05:47:06 GMT, ernobe <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote:
Bwahahahahahahahaha. You're the one coming in here trying to sell your god
as real and you tell us that imaginary characters are getting in our heads.
Whether I come or go, your gods, it seems, cease not to haunt you.
"your" is redundant in this sentence.
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| User: "Woden" |
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| Title: Re: You Were Created by the Three Bears |
13 Dec 2004 06:44:35 PM |
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ernobe <ernobe@yahoo.com> wrote in news:324omqF3ebkkhU1@individual.net:
Bwahahahahahahahaha. You're the one coming in here trying to sell
your god as real and you tell us that imaginary characters are
getting in our heads.
Whether I come or go, your gods, it seems, cease not to haunt you.
No fool. It's not gods that haunt me. It's fools who believe in gods that
are the problem.
--
Woden
"religion is a socio-political system for controlling people's thoughts,
lives and actions based on ancient myths and superstitions, perpetrated
through generations of subtle yet pervasive brainwashing."
.
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