| Topic: |
Religions > Atheism |
| User: |
"J Young" |
| Date: |
07 Apr 2005 10:39:20 PM |
| Object: |
Zionism = Racism ? |
The UN General Assembly passed a resolution in 1975 equating Zionism
and racism. This resolution was recinded following the Gulf War, not
because any factual evidence was presented in behalf of Zionism but
because of diplomatic necessity. When will Israel come to terms with
it's own form of fascism?
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| User: "Fester" |
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| Title: Re: Zionism = Racism ? |
07 Apr 2005 11:04:28 PM |
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"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1112913560.233460.24080@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
The UN General Assembly passed a resolution in 1975 equating Zionism
and racism. This resolution was recinded following the Gulf War, not
because any factual evidence was presented in behalf of Zionism but
because of diplomatic necessity. When will Israel come to terms with
it's own form of fascism?
The desire to live and defend oneself equals facism in your wee, little
mind. How interesting.
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| User: "amigo cabal" |
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| Title: Re: Zionism = Racism ? |
10 Apr 2005 02:38:42 AM |
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"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in message
news:00j5e.31379$JL2.972223@twister.southeast.rr.com...
"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1112913560.233460.24080@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
The UN General Assembly passed a resolution in 1975 equating Zionism
and racism. This resolution was recinded following the Gulf War, not
because any factual evidence was presented in behalf of Zionism but
because of diplomatic necessity. When will Israel come to terms with
it's own form of fascism?
The desire to live and defend oneself equals facism in your wee, little
mind. How interesting.
That is what Hitler was doing in Russia "defending himself"!
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| User: "Harry" |
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| Title: Re: Zionism = Racism ? |
07 Apr 2005 11:08:31 PM |
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"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in message
news:00j5e.31379$JL2.972223@twister.southeast.rr.com...
"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1112913560.233460.24080@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
The UN General Assembly passed a resolution in 1975 equating Zionism
and racism. This resolution was recinded following the Gulf War, not
because any factual evidence was presented in behalf of Zionism but
because of diplomatic necessity. When will Israel come to terms with
it's own form of fascism?
The desire to live and defend oneself equals facism in your wee, little
mind. How interesting.
You're giving him way too much credit.
Jon has the morals and ethics of a rent-boy.
----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeeds.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 120,000+ Newsgroups
----= East and West-Coast Server Farms - Total Privacy via Encryption =----
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| User: "amigo cabal" |
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| Title: Re: Zionism = Racism ? |
10 Apr 2005 02:39:45 AM |
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"Harry" <harry@leavemealone.com> wrote in message
news:4255be2f$1_2@127.0.0.1...
"Fester" <not@home.com> wrote in message
news:00j5e.31379$JL2.972223@twister.southeast.rr.com...
"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1112913560.233460.24080@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
The UN General Assembly passed a resolution in 1975 equating Zionism
and racism. This resolution was recinded following the Gulf War, not
because any factual evidence was presented in behalf of Zionism but
because of diplomatic necessity. When will Israel come to terms with
it's own form of fascism?
The desire to live and defend oneself equals facism in your wee, little
mind. How interesting.
You're giving him way too much credit.
Jon has the morals and ethics of a rent-boy.
YOU BOTH ARE ISRAELI FASCIST THUGS!
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| User: "Virgil" |
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| Title: Re: Zionism = Racism ? |
08 Apr 2005 01:50:24 AM |
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In article <1112913560.233460.24080@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote:
The UN General Assembly passed a resolution in 1975 equating Zionism
and racism. This resolution was recinded following the Gulf War, not
because any factual evidence was presented in behalf of Zionism but
because of diplomatic necessity. When will Israel come to terms with
it's own form of fascism?
As ar as I can see, the Arab countries around Israel do a pretty good
job of what you seem to think of as racism in reverse.
The arab counties are, by and large, a good deal more vicious at it, and
can't stand it that the Israelis have been so much more effective at it.
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| User: "amigo cabal" |
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| Title: Re: Zionism = Racism ? |
10 Apr 2005 02:51:32 AM |
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"Virgil" <ITSnetNOTcom#virgil@COMCAST.com> wrote in message
news:ITSnetNOTcom%23virgil-F334B9.19502407042005@comcast.dca.giganews.com...
In article <1112913560.233460.24080@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com>,
"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote:
The UN General Assembly passed a resolution in 1975 equating Zionism
and racism. This resolution was recinded following the Gulf War, not
because any factual evidence was presented in behalf of Zionism but
because of diplomatic necessity. When will Israel come to terms with
it's own form of fascism?
As ar as I can see, the Arab countries around Israel do a pretty good
job of what you seem to think of as racism in reverse.
The arab counties are, by and large, a good deal more vicious at it, and
can't stand it that the Israelis have been so much more effective at it.
You have obviously never been to an Arab country. There are many Jews
working and living in Arab countries, they suffer far less dicrimination
than the Arabs amongst the jews in Israel!
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| User: "C-R-E-A-T-O-R of G-O-D" |
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| Title: Re: Zionism = Racism ? (THE FACTS) |
08 Apr 2005 01:25:55 AM |
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J Young wrote:
The UN General Assembly passed a resolution in 1975 equating Zionism
and racism. This resolution was recinded following the Gulf War, not
because any factual evidence was presented in behalf of Zionism but
because of diplomatic necessity. When will Israel come to terms with
it's own form of fascism?
Thus Spake God's Creator;
Never!!
ISRAEL U.N. RESOLUTIONS VIOLATIONS.
------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/UN/usvetoes.html
http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0393/9303040.htm
The Facts are: the *ZIONIST/JEWS* have bought out
most of the politicians in the Industrialized/Western nations.
*AND*
- The worlds sources of industrial productivity.
- Wealth (i.e. Gold, Diamonds) in Africa.
- Banking (WORLD BANK, INF included)
- News media
- Advertising
- Major European Religions.
- and much more. Using their "$-MONEY-$ earning $-MONEY-$" brotherhood.
Anyone who talks about their *many* historically recorded
centuries of Evil/Greed (and eventual expulsions)
are called anti-semitic something, they then start up
their *Holocaust* propaganda... again.
HITLER INTERVIEW (1933)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hitler Interview in the New York Staatszeitung, 1933.
"Why does the world shed crocodile's tears over the richly merited fate
of a small Jewish minority? ... I ask Roosevelt, I ask the American
people: Are you prepared to receive in your midst these well-poisoners
of the German people and the universal spirit of Christianity? We would
willingly give everyone of them a free steamer-ticket and a
thousand-mark note for traveling expenses, if we could get rid of
them."
(Quoted in N H Baynes, The Speeches of Adolf Hitler,
Oxford University Press, 1942, Volume I, pp.727-28)
GOD'S CREATION ?
...That was my only sin...
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Zionism = Racism ? (THE FACTS) |
08 Apr 2005 01:32:56 AM |
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C-R-E-A-T-O-R of G-O-D wrote:
J Young wrote:
The UN General Assembly passed a resolution in 1975 equating
Zionism
and racism. This resolution was recinded following the Gulf War,
not
because any factual evidence was presented in behalf of Zionism but
because of diplomatic necessity. When will Israel come to terms
with
it's own form of fascism?
Thus Spake God's Creator;
Never!!
ISRAEL U.N. RESOLUTIONS VIOLATIONS.
------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/UN/usvetoes.html
http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0393/9303040.htm
The Facts are: the *ZIONIST/JEWS* have bought out
most of the politicians in the Industrialized/Western nations.
*AND*
- The worlds sources of industrial productivity.
- Wealth (i.e. Gold, Diamonds) in Africa.
- Banking (WORLD BANK, INF included)
- News media
- Advertising
- Major European Religions.
- and much more. Using their "$-MONEY-$ earning $-MONEY-$"
brotherhood.
Anyone who talks about their *many* historically recorded
centuries of Evil/Greed (and eventual expulsions)
are called anti-semitic something, they then start up
their *Holocaust* propaganda... again.
HITLER INTERVIEW (1933)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hitler Interview in the New York Staatszeitung, 1933.
"Why does the world shed crocodile's tears over the richly merited
fate
of a small Jewish minority? ... I ask Roosevelt, I ask the American
people: Are you prepared to receive in your midst these
well-poisoners
of the German people and the universal spirit of Christianity? We
would
willingly give everyone of them a free steamer-ticket and a
thousand-mark note for traveling expenses, if we could get rid of
them."
(Quoted in N H Baynes, The Speeches of Adolf Hitler,
Oxford University Press, 1942, Volume I, pp.727-28)
GOD'S CREATION ?
...That was my only sin...
So it's all YOUR fault, then? Mighty big of you to let us know that
everything's going according to plan. Cheers!!
.
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| User: "C-R-E-A-T-O-R of G-O-D" |
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| Title: Re: Zionism = Racism ? (THE FACTS) |
08 Apr 2005 01:40:35 AM |
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wrote:
C-R-E-A-T-O-R of G-O-D wrote:
J Young wrote:
The UN General Assembly passed a resolution in 1975 equating
Zionism
and racism. This resolution was recinded following the Gulf War,
not
because any factual evidence was presented in behalf of Zionism but
because of diplomatic necessity. When will Israel come to terms
with
it's own form of fascism?
Thus Spake God's Creator;
Never!!
ISRAEL U.N. RESOLUTIONS VIOLATIONS.
------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/UN/usvetoes.html
http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0393/9303040.htm
The Facts are: the *ZIONIST/JEWS* have bought out
most of the politicians in the Industrialized/Western nations.
*AND*
- The worlds sources of industrial productivity.
- Wealth (i.e. Gold, Diamonds) in Africa.
- Banking (WORLD BANK, INF included)
- News media
- Advertising
- Major European Religions.
- and much more. Using their "$-MONEY-$ earning $-MONEY-$"
brotherhood.
Anyone who talks about their *many* historically recorded
centuries of Evil/Greed (and eventual expulsions)
are called anti-semitic something, they then start up
their *Holocaust* propaganda... again.
HITLER INTERVIEW (1933)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hitler Interview in the New York Staatszeitung, 1933.
"Why does the world shed crocodile's tears over the richly merited
fate
of a small Jewish minority? ... I ask Roosevelt, I ask the American
people: Are you prepared to receive in your midst these
well-poisoners
of the German people and the universal spirit of Christianity? We
would
willingly give everyone of them a free steamer-ticket and a
thousand-mark note for traveling expenses, if we could get rid of
them."
(Quoted in N H Baynes, The Speeches of Adolf Hitler,
Oxford University Press, 1942, Volume I, pp.727-28)
GOD'S CREATION ?
...That was my only sin...
So it's all YOUR fault, then? Mighty big of you to let us know that
everything's going according to plan. Cheers!!
Thus Spake God's Creator; (I don't forgive *****!)
I'm trying to correct that mistake...
GOD'S CREATION ?
...That was my only sin...
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wise men face the unknown, and boldly looks for it's reality!
Others... fall on their hands and knees, and start mumbling...
Current Religious News:
http://fullcoverage.yahoo.com/Full_Coverage/World/Religion_News/
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Zionism = Racism ? (THE FACTS) |
08 Apr 2005 01:52:51 AM |
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C-R-E-A-T-O-R of G-O-D wrote:
PatrickDHarrington@hotmail.com wrote:
C-R-E-A-T-O-R of G-O-D wrote:
J Young wrote:
The UN General Assembly passed a resolution in 1975 equating
Zionism
and racism. This resolution was recinded following the Gulf War,
not
because any factual evidence was presented in behalf of Zionism
but
because of diplomatic necessity. When will Israel come to terms
with
it's own form of fascism?
Thus Spake God's Creator;
Never!!
ISRAEL U.N. RESOLUTIONS VIOLATIONS.
------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.us-israel.org/jsource/UN/usvetoes.html
http://www.washington-report.org/backissues/0393/9303040.htm
The Facts are: the *ZIONIST/JEWS* have bought out
most of the politicians in the Industrialized/Western nations.
*AND*
- The worlds sources of industrial productivity.
- Wealth (i.e. Gold, Diamonds) in Africa.
- Banking (WORLD BANK, INF included)
- News media
- Advertising
- Major European Religions.
- and much more. Using their "$-MONEY-$ earning $-MONEY-$"
brotherhood.
Anyone who talks about their *many* historically recorded
centuries of Evil/Greed (and eventual expulsions)
are called anti-semitic something, they then start up
their *Holocaust* propaganda... again.
HITLER INTERVIEW (1933)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Hitler Interview in the New York Staatszeitung, 1933.
"Why does the world shed crocodile's tears over the richly
merited
fate
of a small Jewish minority? ... I ask Roosevelt, I ask the
American
people: Are you prepared to receive in your midst these
well-poisoners
of the German people and the universal spirit of Christianity? We
would
willingly give everyone of them a free steamer-ticket and a
thousand-mark note for traveling expenses, if we could get rid of
them."
(Quoted in N H Baynes, The Speeches of Adolf Hitler,
Oxford University Press, 1942, Volume I, pp.727-28)
GOD'S CREATION ?
...That was my only sin...
So it's all YOUR fault, then? Mighty big of you to let us know
that
everything's going according to plan. Cheers!!
Thus Spake God's Creator; (I don't forgive *****!)
I'm trying to correct that mistake...
It's a bit of a dead giveaway, though, that God's creator was NOT
omniscient. Or, to give you the benefit of the doubt, you didn't
realise that you were omniscient and, therefore, didn't know that you
did know...no...that still means you didn't know. Oh well, nevermind,
I see that mankind is definitely created in the likeness and image of
God's creator, then.
GOD'S CREATION ?
...That was my only sin...
Does that mean that "creating God" was the sin or "allowing God to
create creation" was the sin?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Wise men face the unknown, and boldly looks for it's reality!
Others... fall on their hands and knees, and start mumbling...
Current Religious News:
http://fullcoverage.yahoo.com/Full_Coverage/World/Religion_News/
.
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| User: "James Ascher" |
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| Title: Re: Zionism = Racism ? |
08 Apr 2005 12:33:01 PM |
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J Young wrote:
The UN General Assembly passed a resolution in 1975 equating Zionism
and racism. This resolution was recinded following the Gulf War, not
because any factual evidence was presented in behalf of Zionism but
because of diplomatic necessity. When will Israel come to terms with
it's own form of fascism?
As long as it benefits them, they won't drop it.
James
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| User: "Lavi_Melek" |
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| Title: Re: Zionism = Racism ? |
07 Apr 2005 11:38:46 PM |
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J Young wrote:
The UN General Assembly passed a resolution in 1975 equating Zionism
and racism. This resolution was recinded following the Gulf War, not
because any factual evidence was presented in behalf of Zionism but
because of diplomatic necessity. When will Israel come to terms with
it's own form of fascism?
As usual, a Jew-hating troll on Usenet provides only a partial glimpse
an event in history in order to buttress his own mindless Judenhass.
I noticed you didn't mention any of the events in the early 1970's
that made possible the passing of the factually erroneous and
hate-filled UN Resolution 3379, such as the Soviets forming what
amounted to a pro-PLO lobby in the UN comprised of the USSR, Arab
nations, and Third World Soviet client States. I noticed you didn't
mention how that Arab-Soviet bloc used the threat of Arab oil boycotts
to intimidate Third World nations in the UN not aligned with the
Soviets into voting for any/all half-baked resolutions they initiated,
including Resolution 3379. Must've been a minor, scholarly oversight
on your part, huh?
I noticed you DID mention your asinine belief that Israel, a healthy
functioning democracy, has embraced Fascism. That should tell the
casual reader all they need to know about you and the extremist,
anti-Semitic, anti-Israel position you begin with.
Stick to burning books, you vacuous smidgen of dog *****.
Intellectually, you're clearly out of your depth here.
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| User: "amigo cabal" |
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| Title: Re: Zionism = Racism ? |
10 Apr 2005 02:41:07 AM |
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"Lavi_Melek" <melek_707@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1112917126.271046.124560@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
J Young wrote:
The UN General Assembly passed a resolution in 1975 equating Zionism
and racism. This resolution was recinded following the Gulf War, not
because any factual evidence was presented in behalf of Zionism but
because of diplomatic necessity. When will Israel come to terms with
it's own form of fascism?
As usual, a Jew-hating troll on Usenet provides only a partial glimpse
an event in history in order to buttress his own mindless Judenhass.
"jUDENHASS" MY ARSE! PEOPLE HATE WHAT JEWS DO, NOT WHAT JEWS ARE!
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| User: "georgann" |
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| Title: Re: Zionism = Racism ? |
08 Apr 2005 12:00:42 AM |
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J Young wrote:
The UN General Assembly passed a resolution in 1975 equating Zionism and
racism. This resolution was recinded following the Gulf War, not because any
factual evidence was presented in behalf of Zionism but because of diplomatic
necessity. When will Israel come to terms with it's own form of fascism?
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
Just shows how out of step the UN is with reality. Semites bigotry against
Semites makes absolutely no sense at all.
--
(`'·.¸(`'·.¸(`'·.¸ ¸.·'´)¸.·'´)¸.·'´)
«´¨`·.¸¸ ¸¸.·´¨ `»
"As Benjamin Franklin left the State House in Philadelphia
on the closing day of the Constitutional Convention, a woman
asked him what kind of government the statesmen had given America.
Franklin replied: 'A republic, Madame, if you can keep it.'
http://www.boingboing.net/images/Purple-USA.jpg
http://www.princeton.edu/~rvdb/JAVA/election2004/
(¸.·'´(¸.·'´(¸.·'´ `'·.¸)`'·.¸)`'·.¸)
.
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| User: "Susan Cohen" |
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| Title: Re: Zionism = Racism ? |
08 Apr 2005 12:55:49 AM |
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"georgann" <chenault@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:BE7B41E9.5AB1A%chenault@mindspring.com...
J Young wrote:
The UN General Assembly passed a resolution in 1975 equating Zionism and
racism. This resolution was recinded following the Gulf War, not because
any
factual evidence was presented in behalf of Zionism but because of
diplomatic
necessity.
A lie, of , course.
It was *passed* without any factual evidence presented *against* Zionism.
When will Israel come to terms with it's own form of fascism?
Right after it come to terms with that moon made of green cheese thing.
Also, even if "zionism was racism" which it's not, racism isn't the same as
fascism.
georgann wrote:
Just shows how out of step the UN is with reality. Semites bigotry
against
Semites makes absolutely no sense at all.
Exspecially since "anti-semitism" doesn't mean "hatred of semites." It means
"hatred of Jews", just as it was specifically coined to mean.
Susan
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| User: "amigo cabal" |
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| Title: Re: Zionism = Racism ? |
10 Apr 2005 02:44:43 AM |
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"Susan Cohen" <flavia18@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:pEk5e.704$Zn3.463@trnddc02...
"georgann" <chenault@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:BE7B41E9.5AB1A%chenault@mindspring.com...
J Young wrote:
The UN General Assembly passed a resolution in 1975 equating Zionism and
racism. This resolution was recinded following the Gulf War, not because
any
factual evidence was presented in behalf of Zionism but because of
diplomatic
necessity.
A lie, of , course.
It was *passed* without any factual evidence presented *against* Zionism.
When will Israel come to terms with it's own form of fascism?
Right after it come to terms with that moon made of green cheese thing.
THAT IS HOW FAR SUSAN'S INTELLECT REACHES TO "GREEN CHEESE"
The fact remains that if tomorrow UN Assembly voted on Israel being a
fascist state, only Palau and Jewnited States would vote against it!
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Zionism = Racism ? |
08 Apr 2005 11:04:45 AM |
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georgann <chenault@mindspring.com> wrote in alt.atheism
J Young wrote:
The UN General Assembly passed a resolution in 1975 equating Zionism and
racism. This resolution was recinded following the Gulf War, not because any
factual evidence was presented in behalf of Zionism but because of diplomatic
necessity. When will Israel come to terms with it's own form of fascism?
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
Just shows how out of step the UN is with reality. Semites bigotry against
Semites makes absolutely no sense at all.
I read one article recently which talked about the Jews and how many
of them consider themselves a "race" apart from all others. Yet here
in the US, you don't see "Jewish" listed on any of the forms people
fill out when asked for their "race." Furthermore, there are white
Jews, Arab Jews, Black Jews, Indian Jews, Spanish Jews, etc.
Why do they want to call themselves a "race" instead of a religion?
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
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| User: "Therion Ware" |
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| Title: Re: Zionism = Racism ? |
08 Apr 2005 12:53:54 PM |
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On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 11:04:45 GMT in alt.atheism, Elroy Willis (Elroy
Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net>) said, directing the reply to
alt.atheism
georgann <chenault@mindspring.com> wrote in alt.atheism
J Young wrote:
The UN General Assembly passed a resolution in 1975 equating Zionism and
racism. This resolution was recinded following the Gulf War, not because any
factual evidence was presented in behalf of Zionism but because of diplomatic
necessity. When will Israel come to terms with it's own form of fascism?
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
Just shows how out of step the UN is with reality. Semites bigotry against
Semites makes absolutely no sense at all.
I read one article recently which talked about the Jews and how many
of them consider themselves a "race" apart from all others. Yet here
in the US, you don't see "Jewish" listed on any of the forms people
fill out when asked for their "race." Furthermore, there are white
Jews, Arab Jews, Black Jews, Indian Jews, Spanish Jews, etc.
Why do they want to call themselves a "race" instead of a religion?
Well, depends on who "they" are! Judaism, like Christianity, isn't
monolithic and various cultural subgroups hold different views on
this.
That said, and to answer your question, 'Why do they want to call
themselves a "race" instead of a religion?': My answer would be
"historical reasons based on culture. Or cultural reasons based on
history! Or both. And then some....".
As I understand it, Jews are indistinguishable from the surrounding
populations on a genetic basis, though there was a lot of fuss about
the original paper that pointed this out because of its pointed
political comments. But that said, in so far as I'm aware, no serious
issue has taken with respect to the science on which those political
opinions were, erm, naively, based.
If you want a copy of the paper, let me know, and I'll email it to
you. Heh. And
"I know where you live!".
Mind you, my grandfather was noted Zionist, author and playwright
http://www.amazon.co.uk/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/026-6844319-5130821
So occasionally, as his grandson I occasionally get bothered by a
certain kind of journalist on this. When I tell then I've been married
to a Muslim for 16 years they tend to loose interest, which in my
opinion demonstrates a certain lack of ambition and imagination as
regards journalism.
And so it goes. ...
.
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| User: "amigo cabal" |
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| Title: Re: Zionism = Racism ? |
10 Apr 2005 02:48:42 AM |
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"Therion Ware" <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in message
news:rrrc51th3pqbd3k0o044tgb8na4pjuhefj@4ax.com...
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 11:04:45 GMT in alt.atheism, Elroy Willis (Elroy
Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net>) said, directing the reply to
alt.atheism
georgann <chenault@mindspring.com> wrote in alt.atheism
J Young wrote:
The UN General Assembly passed a resolution in 1975 equating Zionism
and
racism. This resolution was recinded following the Gulf War, not
because any
factual evidence was presented in behalf of Zionism but because of
diplomatic
necessity. When will Israel come to terms with it's own form of
fascism?
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
Just shows how out of step the UN is with reality. Semites bigotry
against
Semites makes absolutely no sense at all.
I read one article recently which talked about the Jews and how many
of them consider themselves a "race" apart from all others. Yet here
in the US, you don't see "Jewish" listed on any of the forms people
fill out when asked for their "race." Furthermore, there are white
Jews, Arab Jews, Black Jews, Indian Jews, Spanish Jews, etc.
Why do they want to call themselves a "race" instead of a religion?
Well, depends on who "they" are! Judaism, like Christianity, isn't
monolithic and various cultural subgroups hold different views on
this.
That said, and to answer your question, 'Why do they want to call
themselves a "race" instead of a religion?': My answer would be
"historical reasons based on culture. Or cultural reasons based on
history! Or both.
Nonsense! How can a Russian who became a jew in 1,800, have either cultural
or historic connection to Israel?
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| User: "Therion Ware" |
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| Title: Re: Zionism = Racism ? |
11 Apr 2005 08:26:02 AM |
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On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 02:48:42 GMT in alt.atheism, amigo cabal ("amigo
cabal" <pinkspider123@earthlink.net>) said, directing the reply to
alt.atheism
"Therion Ware" <autodelete@city-of-dis.com> wrote in message
news:rrrc51th3pqbd3k0o044tgb8na4pjuhefj@4ax.com...
On Fri, 08 Apr 2005 11:04:45 GMT in alt.atheism, Elroy Willis (Elroy
Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net>) said, directing the reply to
alt.atheism
georgann <chenault@mindspring.com> wrote in alt.atheism
J Young wrote:
The UN General Assembly passed a resolution in 1975 equating Zionism
and
racism. This resolution was recinded following the Gulf War, not
because any
factual evidence was presented in behalf of Zionism but because of
diplomatic
necessity. When will Israel come to terms with it's own form of
fascism?
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
Just shows how out of step the UN is with reality. Semites bigotry
against
Semites makes absolutely no sense at all.
I read one article recently which talked about the Jews and how many
of them consider themselves a "race" apart from all others. Yet here
in the US, you don't see "Jewish" listed on any of the forms people
fill out when asked for their "race." Furthermore, there are white
Jews, Arab Jews, Black Jews, Indian Jews, Spanish Jews, etc.
Why do they want to call themselves a "race" instead of a religion?
Well, depends on who "they" are! Judaism, like Christianity, isn't
monolithic and various cultural subgroups hold different views on
this.
That said, and to answer your question, 'Why do they want to call
themselves a "race" instead of a religion?': My answer would be
"historical reasons based on culture. Or cultural reasons based on
history! Or both.
Nonsense! How can a Russian who became a jew in 1,800, have either cultural
or historic connection to Israel?
Erm, who said anything about a cultural or historic connection to
*Israel* albeit that "next year in Jerusalem" may have relevance here.
Still, what I was implying was that in my view the nature of Judaism
is such that it's very very effective at preserving cultural identity
and this distinct identity is not infrequently conflated with "race"
both within and outside of the cultural group though as far as I know
Jews do not form a distinct or identifiable group in genetic terms.
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| User: "zev" |
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| Title: Re: Zionism = Racism ? |
10 Apr 2005 06:06:35 AM |
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"amigo cabal" <pinkspider123@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:eu06e.3669$yq6.3392@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
That said, and to answer your question, 'Why do they want to call
themselves a "race" instead of a religion?': My answer would be
"historical reasons based on culture. Or cultural reasons based on
history! Or both.
Nonsense! How can a Russian who became a jew in 1,800, have either
cultural or historic connection to Israel?
How can a non-Arab who became a Muslem in 800, have either cultural
or historic connection to Mecca and Medina?
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| User: "amigo cabal" |
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| Title: Re: Zionism = Racism ? |
10 Apr 2005 02:46:23 AM |
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"Elroy Willis" <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:avoc51510ro1vmao6029jh5ucmtej368rs@4ax.com...
georgann <chenault@mindspring.com> wrote in alt.atheism
J Young wrote:
The UN General Assembly passed a resolution in 1975 equating Zionism and
racism. This resolution was recinded following the Gulf War, not because
any
factual evidence was presented in behalf of Zionism but because of
diplomatic
necessity. When will Israel come to terms with it's own form of fascism?
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
Just shows how out of step the UN is with reality. Semites bigotry
against
Semites makes absolutely no sense at all.
I read one article recently which talked about the Jews and how many
of them consider themselves a "race" apart from all others. Yet here
in the US, you don't see "Jewish" listed on any of the forms people
fill out when asked for their "race." Furthermore, there are white
Jews, Arab Jews, Black Jews, Indian Jews, Spanish Jews, etc.
Why do they want to call themselves a "race" instead of a religion?
Excellent question! beacause Jews want to be all things to all men, as long
as they can enslave the whole shebang!
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Zionism = Racism ? |
10 Apr 2005 12:41:15 PM |
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amigo cabal <pinkspider123@earthlink.net> wrote in alt.atheism
Elroy Willis <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in message
georgann <chenault@mindspring.com> wrote in alt.atheism
J Young wrote:
georgann (forgiven since 33 AD) wrote:
Just shows how out of step the UN is with reality. Semites bigotry
against Semites makes absolutely no sense at all.
I read one article recently which talked about the Jews and how many
of them consider themselves a "race" apart from all others. Yet here
in the US, you don't see "Jewish" listed on any of the forms people
fill out when asked for their "race." Furthermore, there are white
Jews, Arab Jews, Black Jews, Indian Jews, Spanish Jews, etc.
Why do they want to call themselves a "race" instead of a religion?
Excellent question! beacause Jews want to be all things to all men, as long
as they can enslave the whole shebang!
As long as they keep hoping for some messiah that will bring on the
rulership of the whole world, the going will not get any easier. Best
to give up that idea, as well as the Christians giving up the idea
that Jesus is gonna come back a second time to finish what he failed
to do the first time around.
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
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| User: "Riain Barton/øéòéï áøúåï" |
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| Title: Re: Zionism = Racism ? |
10 Apr 2005 08:20:14 AM |
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MYTH
“Zionism is racism.”
FACT
In 1975, the UN General Assembly adopted a resolution slandering Zionism
by equating it with racism. In his spirited response to the resolution,
Israel's Ambassador to the UN, Chaim Herzog noted the irony of the
timing, the vote coming exactly 37 years after Kristallnacht.
Zionism is the national liberation movement of the Jewish people, which
holds that Jews, like any other nation, are entitled to a homeland.
History has demonstrated the need to ensure Jewish security through a
national homeland. Zionism recognizes that Jewishness is defined by
shared origin, religion, culture and history. The realization of the
Zionist dream is exemplified by more than five million Jews, from more
than 100 countries, who are Israeli citizens.
Israel's Law of Return grants automatic citizenship to Jews, but
non-Jews are also eligible to become citizens under naturalization
procedures similar to those in other countries. Approximately 1,000,000
Muslim and Christian Arabs, Druze, Baha'is, Circassians and other ethnic
groups also are represented in Israel's population. The presence in
Israel of thousands of dark-skinned Jews from Ethiopia, Yemen and India
is the best refutation of the calumny against Zionism. In a series of
historic airlifts, labeled Moses (1984), Joshua (1985) and Solomon
(1991), Israel rescued almost 42,000 members of the ancient Ethiopian
Jewish community.
Zionism does not discriminate against anyone. Israel's open and
democratic character, and its scrupulous protection of the religious and
political rights of Christians and Muslims, rebut the charge of
exclusivity. Moreover, anyone — Jew or non-Jew, Israeli, American, or
Saudi, black, white, yellow or purple — can be a Zionist.
By contrast, the Arab states define citizenship strictly by native
parentage. It is almost impossible to become a naturalized citizen in
many Arab states, especially Algeria, Saudi Arabia and Kuwait. Several
Arab nations have laws that facilitate the naturalization of foreign
Arabs, with the specific exception of Palestinians. Jordan, on the other
hand, instituted its own "law of return" in 1954, according citizenship
to all former residents of Palestine, except for Jews.19
To single out Jewish self-determination for condemnation is itself a
form of racism. When approached by a student at Harvard in 1968 who
attacked Zionism, Martin Luther King responded: "When people criticize
Zionists, they mean Jews. You're talking anti-Semitism."20
The 1975 UN resolution was part of the Soviet-Arab Cold War anti-Israel
campaign. Almost all the former non-Arab supporters of the resolution
have apologized and changed their positions. When the General Assembly
voted to repeal the resolution in 1991, only some Arab and Muslim
states, as well as Cuba, North Korea and Vietnam were opposed.
"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1112913560.233460.24080@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
: The UN General Assembly passed a resolution in 1975 equating Zionism
: and racism. This resolution was recinded following the Gulf War, not
: because any factual evidence was presented in behalf of Zionism but
: because of diplomatic necessity. When will Israel come to terms with
: it's own form of fascism?
:
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| User: "Riain Barton/øéòéï áøúåï" |
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| Title: Re: Zionism = Racism ? |
10 Apr 2005 08:09:53 AM |
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The word 'Zionism' often brings up negative connotations. In this
article, Gil Troy advocates taking back the word 'Zionism' and
re-claiming it as a positive concept which continues to speak to us
today.
"You don't really want to call it that," some friends scoffed when I
floated the title of my new book. "You know the word is problematic, it
will turn people off," one explained. When I persisted, an Israeli
friend suggested: "Maybe you'll have another edition with a different
title, for a wider audience."
What's all the hand-wringing about? The book is called "Why I Am a
Zionist: Israel, Jewish Identity, and the Challenges of Today." In this
age of Oprah, the self-involved "I" in the title disturbed no one. The
problematic word, alas, was "Zionist."
I could not imagine writing a book subtitled: "Israel, Jewish Identity
and the Challenges of Today" without using the word "Zionist." To me,
Zionism, meaning Jewish nationalism, is a source of pride. I am a
Zionist because I recognize the centrality of Israel in the Jewish
experience, because I know my history and embrace the concept of Jewish
peoplehood and because I am a Jew.
Furthermore, one of the book's goals is to take back the word from its
opponents. The quarter-century campaign to demonize Zionism is bearing
its poisonous fruit. The U.N.'s anti-Semitic anti-racism conference in
Durban, South Africa, was just one example of a daily disgorgement of
anti-Zionism worldwide. This barrage of hate is often merely a thinly
veiled update of good old-fashioned anti-Semitism.
The campaign has been depressingly effective. When I speak to Jewish
groups these days, I like to play a game. I say "Zionism is..." and they
say "racism," or they hesitate and each person struggles to find a
positive term. Even for those of us who know Zionism isn't racism, our
brains' synapses have been trained to fire in a most unfortunate way.
In 1975, when the United Nations passed its infamous resolution
demonizing Zionism, good people everywhere rose up and shouted it down.
In New York, Jews and non-Jews sported blue and white buttons
proclaiming "I AM A ZIONIST." This campaign was so effective that some
Zionists began wondering if the term wasn't becoming overused.
We should only have such troubles today. Too many Jews have, to one
extent or another, internalized the criticism. Zionism, once the proud
battle-standard, has become a source of division and embarrassment. Too
many good people legitimize anti-Zionism because they dislike Israeli
actions. Here emerges the insidious nature of the campaign. Criticism of
the United States need not be anti-American. Why does criticism of
Israel so often become anti-Zionist?
Dissent in a democracy should not entail negating the state's right to
exist. Those who consider themselves anti-Zionists, rather than critics
of this or that Israeli policy, implicitly accept the decades-long Arab
campaign to undermine the very rationale of the Jewish state.
In fairness, Zionists must take some responsibility for this sad state
of affairs. Overreacting to vicious threats, too many Zionists have
adopted an all-or-nothing, with-us-or-against-us approach. Too many Jews
have confused Zionism with 100% pro-Israelism, missing the visionary and
complex nature of the Zionist movement. A small but vocal Israeli elite
has even deemed itself post-Zionist, disdaining Zionist ideals despite
benefiting from Zionism's achievements. And in response to a movement
that has sometimes bred fanaticism and an organizational culture that
too often bred political hacks, many American Jews have become apathetic
non-Zionists.
Both friends and foes have inflicted damage. We need to take the term
Zionism back from its enemies and from well-meaning but misguided fans.
Zionist activists need to stop creating the false impression that
Zionism is a monolithic movement marching in lockstep with the Israeli
policy of the moment.
I am, however, an optimist. If Times Square can be reclaimed, so too can
Zionism. In fact, Zionists have to follow their own playbook. Much of
the late 19th-century Zionist revolution entailed resurrecting symbols,
changing images and transforming negatives into positives. From the new
cult of the Maccabees to the rediscovery of Masada, Zionists scoured
Jewish history and found new, physically assertive, inspiring role
models. Today, we need a similar reclamation project with the term
Zionism itself.
At the recent General Assembly of the United Jewish Communities held in
Washington, D.C., Barnes & Noble offered a huge display of Jewish books.
Dozens of titles testified to the rich tapestry of Jewish life. There
were cookbooks and prayer books, primers and polemics, books that were
pro-Israel and books critical of Israel. Not one book, however, had the
word "Zionist" in the title.
If my book has no other merits, at least it uses the word Zionist on its
cover - and in a positive context. That is one small step in the long
road to taking back the term from its enemies and its doubters. A
century ago, Zionism revived pride in the label "Jew." Today, Jews must
revive pride in the label "Zionist."
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Anti_Anti-Zionism
"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1112913560.233460.24080@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
: The UN General Assembly passed a resolution in 1975 equating Zionism
: and racism. This resolution was recinded following the Gulf War, not
: because any factual evidence was presented in behalf of Zionism but
: because of diplomatic necessity. When will Israel come to terms with
: it's own form of fascism?
:
.
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| User: "Riain Barton/øéòéï áøúåï" |
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| Title: Re: Zionism = Racism ? |
10 Apr 2005 08:12:55 AM |
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http://web.israelinsider.com/Views/1241.htm
The resurrection of 'Zionism is racism'
By Avi Davis July 16, 2002
Among the smear tactics and efforts to discredit the Jewish state by it
enemies, there is one golden oldie that never seems to die. Much like
the blood libel that has attached to the Jewish people since the Middle
Ages, the 'Zionism is racism' canard clings to life, resuscitated by
Israel's foes whenever an appropriate opportunity presents itself.
The latest opportunity for use of the slur came this week when the
cabinet voted 15-2 to approve the establishment of exclusively Jewish
towns in the Galilee. Yet like most controversies involving Israel, the
truth has become so muddied with fiction that an accurate chronology of
the events leading to this would-be legislation has been lost.
The background to the decision is as follows: In September 1999, Adel
Ka'adan, an Arab citizen of Israel, appealed to the High Court of
Justice against the State of Israel and the Jewish Agency, in which he
claimed that the Homeowner's Association of Katzir, a communal
settlement in the Galilee, had refused to accept his family in the
settlement on the grounds of his family being Arab. In March 2000, the
High Court of Justice instructed the State to consider allocating a plot
of land to the Ka'adan family. In the wake of this decision, the Ka'adan
family was referred to the Katzir Association for admission procedures.
The Association did not accept the Ka'adan family inasmuch the
Association believed that the Ka'adan family did not meet the admissions
criteria. The situation has remained unchanged during the past several
months.
For many years the growing demographic ratio of Jews to Arabs has been
of concern to all Israeli governments - both right and left - and in the
wake of the High Court decision, Knesset Member Rabbi Chaim Druckman has
proposed to introduce a bill that would mandate the creation of
all-Jewish towns in the Galilee.
The firestorm unleashed by the cabinet approval of the bill was
immediate. Within a day there were front page stories in the Los Angeles
Times and New York Times, vitriolic attacks from Shimon Peres and
Benyamin Ben-Eliezer, and even a condemnation from a long retired (and
silent) Benny Begin, the son of the former prime minister. All lacerated
the bill as undemocratic.
But it is only fair to present the other side of the story. A Jewish
resident of Katzir, Gil Ronen, told reporters that the Arab family's
motives in wanting to move to the Galilee town were clearly of a
provocative nature: "They played soccer during the sounding of the siren
on Memorial Day, they would walk around with reporters and tell us that
they plan to get rid of us in democratic ways and said they would demand
to build a mosque, and the like..."
That Arab governments' wish to take advantage of Israel's weakening
demographic position in the Galilee has been made clear by numerous
statements from both Palestinian Authority representatives and Arab
leaders. In November 2001, Minister for Communications Imad Faluji,
speaking in Ramallah, urged Arabs to buy land in the Galilee, "wherever
and whenever we can so that in ten years we will control the areas." The
leader of Hizbullah in Lebanon, Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah, was reported in
April of this year urging Israeli Arabs to "build on their land, even
you don't own it, so that the Zionists do not have access to it."
The decision comes in the wake of the October 2000 Arab uprising in the
Galilee in which 13 Arabs - all Israeli citizens - were killed during a
three-day-long riot. This spurred much soul searching in Israel. The
deaths had many on the left decrying the failure of Zionism to fulfill
its promise, as offered in Israel's own Declaration of Independence, "to
ensure complete equality of social and political rights to all its
inhabitants, irrespective of religion, race or sex." The argument ran
that discriminatory practices of the Israeli government had transformed
Israeli Arabs into a fifth column and it characterized the riots as a
natural outcome of State-sponsored prejudice.
One has to wonder how a more tainted point of view could be adduced.
Racism in the Middle East, is, after-all, a relative concept. For
compared to their brethren in surrounding countries, Israel's Arabs
literally swim in human and political rights. The freest Arab press in
the Middle East exists in Israel. Israeli Arabs have equal voting rights
with Israelis and it is one of the few places in the Arab world where
women have the right to vote. Arabs currently hold 10 seats in the
120-seat Knesset. Israeli Arabs have also held various government posts,
including one who served as Israel's Consul-General in Atlanta. Ariel
Sharon's cabinet includes the first Arab minister, Salah Tarif, a Druze
who serves as a minister without portfolio. Arabic, like Hebrew, is an
official language in Israel. More than 300,000 Arab children attend
Israeli schools. Today, there are also hundreds of Arab schools whereas
at the time of Israel's founding, there was only one Arab high school in
the entire country.
None of these rights seem to have made an impression on certain members
of the Israeli left. That is because they refuse to view Israeli
democracy as a unique historical experiment but choose instead to
compare it with the democratic traditions of the far more developed
political culture of the United States. There the concepts of justice
for all, and equality before the law, have become enshrined as cardinal
principles of democracy and it is tantamount to heresy to challenge
them.
But it is questionable whether Israel fits or should be made to fit into
the category of an absolute democracy. Surrounded by enemies whose
political systems are avowedly undemocratic, forced to fight five major
wars to defend its territory, the State of Israel, should, in fact, be
viewed as a qualified democracy, a State in which the defense and
protection of its majority population and the need to preserve the
Jewish character of the only country to which Jews en-masse have
recently been welcomed, supersede the exigent demands of full democracy.
It cannot be forgotten that it took the United States a catastrophic
civil war and then an anguished 100 year battle for civil rights to
achieve its current level of democratic pluralism. If democracy
therefore obeys its own rules of evolution, surely the Israelis should
be cut some slack in order to grow their own fledgling experiment in
Jewish democracy into maturity.
For that reason High Court Chief Justice Aharon Barak was wrong to
proclaim at the World Zionist Congress in Jerusalem in June, that his
decision to permit the Arab purchase of a home in Katzir was "a Zionist
ruling in the true sense of the term." Zionism is clearly not racism but
equally it does not conform to the indicia of absolute democracy.
Certainly Israel must protect its minorities, but that does not mean
that it should willfully surrender for the sake of an idealized concept,
the founding and primary principle of Zionism itself - the establishment
of a Jewish home in the ancestral Jewish homeland.
"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1112913560.233460.24080@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
: The UN General Assembly passed a resolution in 1975 equating Zionism
: and racism. This resolution was recinded following the Gulf War, not
: because any factual evidence was presented in behalf of Zionism but
: because of diplomatic necessity. When will Israel come to terms with
: it's own form of fascism?
:
.
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| User: "Riain Barton/øéòéï áøúåï" |
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| Title: Re: Zionism = Racism ? |
10 Apr 2005 08:11:59 AM |
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http://www.beth-elsa.org/be_s1026.htm
Why Zionism Is Not Racist
Sermon given October 26, 2001, by Rabbi Barry H. Block
When I was in sixth grade, I pulled my first “all nighter.” A friend and
I had embarked on a project to build a scale model of the United
Nations. We procrastinated. We didn’t start to build until the afternoon
before the project was due. Making matters worse, I am not handy. My
partner had to do most of the building. Working at my friend’s house, we
were sustained on chocolate and hot tea, and we literally didn’t go to
sleep until the United Nations complex was fully constructed at six o’clock
in the morning. We delivered the project to school, and promptly went
home to sleep all day.
In those days, almost all Americans took pride in the United Nations and
in the role we believed it could play in maintaining world peace. That
international organization held a special place in the hearts of Jews
around the world, for it had paved the way for the establishment of the
State of Israel. In 1947, the U.N. voted, by two thirds majority, to
create two states, a Jewish State and an Arab State, side by side in
Palestine.
That 1947 vote was an international endorsement of Zionism, the eternal
hope of the Jewish people for the reestablishment of Jewish sovereignty
in our ancient homeland. Twenty-eight years later, though, the same
body, the General Assembly of the United Nations, took a very different
stance. In 1975, only months after the proud completion of my sixth
grade United Nations project, that organization declared Israel to be
“the racist regime in occupied Palestine,” and labeled Zionism as “a
form of racialism and racial discrimination.”
The truth be told, the resolution equating Zionism with racism had very
little impact. In the 1990s, after Israeli Prime Minister Yitzhak Rabin
and P.L.O. Chairman Yasser Arafat signed their understanding on the
White House lawn, the U.N. resolution on Zionism and racism was
repealed. Once again, the world seemed to endorse Zionism, or at least
to accept it.
Then, last year, the peace came to an end. Now, we hear the renewed
charge that Zionism is racism. Some months ago, in Durban, South Africa,
the U.N. Conference on Racism was hijacked by forces seeking to use that
forum as a platform against Israel. No other regime in the entire world
was similarly targeted. Words against Israel were not balanced by
condemnation of Palestinian terrorism. Saddam Hussein’s Iraq was not
mentioned. Not a negative word was spoken against the Taliban.
Occasionally, we Jews imagine ourselves to be hated by the entire world.
As the old saying goes, “Just because you’re paranoid doesn’t mean that
you don’t have real enemies.” The Durban conference, and world events
that have followed, remind us that Israel does have profound enemies.
With the inestimably significant exception of the United States, much of
the world is indeed prepared to focus on the misdeeds, both real and
imagined, of the Jewish people, to the exclusion of all others.
“Zionism,” the world tells us, “is racism.”
My friends, I do not stand before you tonight to declare that Zionism is
not racism. Such a charge does not dignify a response. The very
suggestion that Israel can be compared to apartheid South Africa is the
worst kind of anti-Semitism, plain and simple.
At the same time, we may all benefit from a review of the reasons that
Zionism is not racism. We may renew of our commitment to the true
meaning and principles of Zionism.
Zionism is not racism, for the Jewish people is not a race. Yes, Judaism
is passed from parents to child, from generation to generation, as we
witnessed in such a moving way tonight, with the transmission of the
Torah through four generations in our Bar Mitzvah celebrant’s family.
And yet, a convert to Judaism is every bit as Jewish as a person who is
born into our faith. Our own congregation is blessed with hundreds of
Jews-by-Choice, who enrich the fabric of our community and who
faithfully observe our traditions. Converts swelled the ranks of the
Jewish people some 2000 years ago, dramatically altering the composition
and appearance of our Jewish family. Today, a slim majority of the
children in our Temple Beth-El Religious School have two Jewish parents,
while only a substantial minority have four Jewish grandparents. We have
more than a few Jews of Latino heritage in our congregation, and Jews of
African or Middle Eastern descent are widespread in the world today. The
Jewish people do not constitute a race. Zionism is not racism.
Zionism is not racism, because it is a liberation movement for the
Jewish people. Ever since the year 70, when the Second Temple was
destroyed and our people dispersed, religious Jews have prayed for
return to Zion. And yet, in 19th Century Europe, Jewish people achieved
unprecedented freedom. For the first time ever, Jews could be citizens
of the countries where they lived. Many stopped praying for return to
the Promised Land, for they believed that they had found it in Europe or
America.
Then, in the 1890s, anti-Semitism raised its ugly head in France,
seemingly the most enlightened of modern European nations. Europe was
not the Promised Land. Modern Zionism was conceived as a way that the
Jewish people could live in the world on an equal footing with other
peoples of the world. In Eastern Europe, where virulent anti-Semitism
never abated, Zionism was viewed as an escape from the harsh
persecutions of Poland and Russia. While many European and American Jews
still scoffed at the idea in the early decades of the 20th Century,
Zionism began to unite world Jewry as Hitler came to power.
Jews in Europe were murdered by the millions, for no reason, save that
they were Jews. If our people wished to escape, they had no place to go.
The British controlled Palestine, and they outlawed almost all Jewish
immigration to our homeland. The United States and Canada imposed strict
immigration quotas. Our people were slaughtered by the Nazis, but also
because the rest of the world turned a deaf ear to our pleas. On the
other hand, Jews already settled in Palestine, Zionists, put their lives
on the line to smuggle imperiled European Jews into Palestine.
Occasionally, they succeeded. More often, the British turned them back.
At the end of the Holocaust, millions of Jews had no place to go.
Thousands upon thousands of our people were refugees, living for years
in Concentration Camps, now called Displaced Persons Camps, operated by
the victorious allies.
The 19th Century proved to the world that enlightenment would not bring
an end to anti-Semitism. The Holocaust proved that our Jewish people
could not be safe in this world without a free and secure independent
Jewish state. No other nation on the world would guarantee the survival
of Judaism and the Jewish people. Only the Jewish people, with a Jewish
State, could accomplish that vital task. Liberating and saving the life
of one’s own people is not racism. Zionism is not racism.
Finally, Zionism is not racism, because Israel is a democracy. To be
perfectly honest, the State of Israel was founded as a paradox. On the
one hand, it is a Jewish State. To preserve the unique Jewish character
of Israel and to secure the survival of our people, Israel must maintain
a solid Jewish majority. On the other hand, all citizens of Israel have
the right to vote, be they Arab or Jew, Muslim or Christian or Druze. By
definition, Israeli Arabs are full citizens of Israel. At the same time,
we must acknowledge that they are second class citizens. Arab and Druze
Israelis are not part of the group by whom and for whom the nation
exists.
Israel constantly struggles to get this balance right. Arabs sit in the
Knesset, Israel’s Parliament. They elect their own local authorities.
Muslims, Christians, and Druze have their own religious authorities with
full autonomy in matters of marriage and divorce within their own
communities. And yet, public housing for Arabs is not as commodious as
public housing for Jews. Jewish schools are superior. Infrastructure,
from roads to sewers, is better in Jewish areas.
In short, even before we embark on discussion of the Occupied
Territories, Israel has a long way to go in its treatment of its
non-Jewish citizens. And yet, Israel is a free country. The inequalities
that I describe are detailed in the Israeli press and examined by
Israeli courts. They are debated by Israeli society and managed openly
by Israeli Cabinet Ministries. We, too, may join in the criticism. In
June, our Central Conference of American Rabbis passed a resolution,
calling upon Israel to end these inequities, to improve the lot of its
minority citizens. Zionism is not racism, but the State of Israel, like
every nation on Earth, could be better than it is.
We Reform Jews have a number of disagreements with the current Israeli
government, and with its predecessors. Most emphatically, we have
consistently opposed the addition and growth of Jewish settlements in
the West Bank and Gaza Strip. We may question the intensity of Israeli
military reprisals, even after the most heinous of Palestinian terror
attacks. We urge the Israeli government to do everything in its power to
return to the negotiating table, to bring peace to Jerusalem. In his
column in this month’s Temple Bulletin, Rabbi Stahl noted that we may
indeed criticize Israel, but we do so “out of love and out of a
commitment to its ongoing survival and its prosperity.” We are Zionists.
We love Israel. We support Israel. Because of that love and support, we
want Israel to be better than it is.
Lest we forget, one more reason that Zionism is not racism must be
emphasized: True Zionists support the eventual establishment of a
Palestinian State. In 1947, when the United Nations voted to create
Israel, it also voted to create an Arab State in Palestine, next to
Israel. That vote represented a compromise. The Zionists accepted the
solution. The Arabs declared war. In the summer of 2000, that two-state
compromise was again offered by Israeli Prime Minister Barak, with the
support of President Clinton. Tragically, Chairman Arafat declined. In
the months since that day, Jewish support for a Palestinian state has
eroded. And yet, tonight, as in 1947, we ask, may the Jewish people pray
for the realization of the national hopes and dreams of the Palestinian
people. Today, so different from 1947, may the Palestinian people accept
the compromise. May they agree to live in their own nation, at peace,
alongside the Jewish people in the State of Israel.
Zionism is not racism, because ultimately, Zionism is a messianic dream.
For centuries, the Jewish people believed that the return to Zion would
come only with God’s redemption in the coming of the Messiah. Then, in
the last century, we took a first step to salvation: a State of Israel
in a pre-Messianic world. We may yet dream of a world of perfect
harmony. We may yet pray for a world without divisions of race or
nation, color or creed. And yet, we do not live in that world. Until the
Messianic Age arrives, Zionism is survival for the Jewish people. The
State of Israel is not an option.
May the world soon know that Zionism is redemptive, as the Jewish people
continues to find salvation in our ancestral homeland. Through the
treatment of its Arab citizens, may Israel soon show the world that
Zionism strives for a better future. May God find Israel pleasing, in
the pursuit of peace, for Zionism is a beautiful dream.
Amen.
"J Young" <youngopinions@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1112913560.233460.24080@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
: The UN General Assembly passed a resolution in 1975 equating Zionism
: and racism. This resolution was recinded following the Gulf War, not
: because any factual evidence was presented in behalf of Zionism but
: because of diplomatic necessity. When will Israel come to terms with
: it's own form of fascism?
:
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| User: "Elroy Willis" |
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| Title: Re: Zionism = Racism ? |
10 Apr 2005 12:18:39 PM |
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"Riain Barton" <riain@zion.org.il> wrote in alt.atheism
<snip>
Zionism is not racism, because ultimately, Zionism is a messianic dream.
For centuries, the Jewish people believed that the return to Zion would
come only with God’s redemption in the coming of the Messiah.
Many Christians also thought the same, except for them it would mean
the second coming of their first messiah. Both messiah ideas are
irrational ridiculous fantasies, imo.
Then, in the last century, we took a first step to salvation: a State of Israel
in a pre-Messianic world. We may yet dream of a world of perfect
harmony. We may yet pray for a world without divisions of race or
nation, color or creed.
The elimination of a division of nations will be a tough one. Absurd
to the point of laughability, actually. It's just as unrealistic as
expecting the messiah to get rid of all the hundreds of different
languages in the world.
And yet, we do not live in that world. Until the Messianic Age arrives,
Or until all the people, both Jewish and Christian alike, give up the
stupid idea of a messiah coming for the first time or the second...
Zionism is survival for the Jewish people. The State of Israel is not an option.
That last sentence is rather strange.
If the State of Israel is not an option, why not get rid of it?
--
Elroy Willis
www.elroysemporium.com
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| User: "Richard Dell" |
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| Title: Re: Zionism = Racism ? |
10 Apr 2005 10:24:54 PM |
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"Elroy Willis" <elroywillis@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:445i51dfq9fbe4e3n8jr4k4cgk359ocqrj@4ax.com...
| > Then, in the last century, we took a first step to salvation: a
State of
Israel
| > in a pre-Messianic world. We may yet dream of a world of perfect
| > harmony. We may yet pray for a world without divisions of race or
| > nation, color or creed.
|
| The elimination of a division of nations will be a tough one.
Absurd
| to the point of laughability, actually. It's just as unrealistic as
| expecting the messiah to get rid of all the hundreds of different
| languages in the world.
There are two reasons for the ownership of territory: population
density and the production of food. While population density is low
and people operate a hunter-gatherer society, there is no need for the
ownership of land and therefore no need for nation states with secure
borders. Hunters like the North American Indians could roam over wide
spaces, killing bison and setting up camp wherever they wished. As
population density grows, the land cannot support such a life and
agriculture becomes necessary. No one is going to plant crops if they
cannot lay claim to the produce when it is harvested. Hence the growth
of fortified towns and communities, the forerunner of the city state
and then the nation state. This is not just a human thing - many
animals are territorial for the same reasons. You will never see more
than one male robin in a garden, unless it is a very large one. They
know the area of land that they need to survive and will fight or die
to maintain it.
Early Islamic culture was largely based on grazing animals and so
intermediate between hunters and farmers. Islam was succesful because
it united the roaming Arabs in a common virtual state and (partially)
stopped the endless blood feuds by directing their energies against
external cultures. Such an empire can only thrive on expansion as it
exploits more and more slave nations. When Islam hit borders due to
physical barriers or armed resistance, its economics started to fail -
the rest is history.
The idea of a world without borders requires many common values,
particularly the legal system, police force, equity of distribution of
wealth and taxes, and all the other things that our current nation
states deliver - and which we largely take for granted. While some
people work hard and some don't, some breed rapidly and some don't,
there will be conflict. I don't see all these massive issues being
agreed upon in my lifetime, and likely not in this millenium.
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