| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Pastor Dave" |
| Date: |
24 Sep 2007 03:24:43 AM |
| Object: |
* Christ and the Resurrection of the Flesh * |
The Resurrection of the Flesh
By Kurt M. Simmons
Since physical bodies are no part of the first resurrection,
what basis is there to believe they will be part of the
second resurrection of the soul in heaven?
The resurrection of the dead is a question fraught
with difficulty for many. Preterists maintain that
the resurrection was and is nonphysical, consisting
in the spirit, not the body, of man. Others, including
Postmillennialists, believe that the resurrection is
essentially fleshly; that there can be no resurrection
apart from physical bodies rising from their graves.
In this article, we want to examine the idea of the
“resurrection of the flesh” to see if it accords with
the scriptures. We believe a candid study will
demonstrate that the resurrection subsists in
the immaterial realm of the spirit, not the flesh.
Confusion in the Early Church
Understanding scripture and eschatology can be a great
challenge; the meaning often is often elusive, cloaked in
metaphors and poetic imagery. Other times it assumes
the reader has a familiarity with basic themes of redemption
and sanctification, and God’s established methods and
manner of bringing his purpose to pass. Language that
speaks “everlastingly” may actually mean only “age-long”.
Language that says God causes a condition or event, may
really mean that he merely allowed it to come about, etc.
The difficulty in understanding scripture is alluded to by
Paul when he said that his preaching was not with words
of “man’s wisdom” and that he spoke “not in the words
which man’s wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost
teacheth.” (I Cor. 2:4, 13)
“Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect;
yet not the wisdom of this world…But we speak the wisdom
of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God
ordained before the world unto our glory.” (I Cor. 2: 6, 7)
The fact that Paul says the message of the gospel was
sometimes communicated “in a mystery” and in terms
that were “hidden”, eluding comprehension by those
who were not “perfect” (viz., practiced or trained and
hence accomplished and complete, cf. Heb. 5:12-14)
is telling. It means that we cannot always take words
at their face value, but must be alert to deeper meanings.
In discussing the resurrection, Paul said, “Behold, I shew
you a mystery.” (I Cor. 15:51). The term mystery can
mean something that is marvelous or wonderful. It can
also mean something that is hidden and requires spiritual
discernment to be correctly understood. Often it means
both. The scripture’s teaching about the resurrection,
like eschatology in general, is indeed marvelous; it
requires a spiritual discernment acquired only by years
of study, prayer, and contemplation.
The difficulty in understanding scripture would have been
especially true of believers from among the Gentiles who
were less familiar with the usus loquendi (manner of speech)
of the prophets. The language of the prophets evoking
images of the heavens on “fire” and earth “dissolving”
under intense heat doubtless presented a great challenge
to Gentile believers. How was such language to be taken?
Was the physical creation really to be utterly destroyed?
What about language that described Christians being
“caught up” to meet Christ in the air? Would Christians
really be changed and be borne away bodily to heaven
at Christ’s return? What interpretive principles were to
guide their (and our) understanding?
Evidence of the difficulty the early church had in gaining
a command of prophetic writings may be seen in the idea
of the “rapture”. The idea of a bodily rapture, a notion
strongly connected with a bodily resurrection, gained
currency in the early church. The apostle John alludes
to this when he reports that the fact he was to live until
Christ’s return gave rise to the belief he would be
rapturously borne away and never die: “Peter seeing him
saith to Jesus, Lord, and what shall this man do? Jesus
saith unto him, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is
that to thee? Follow thou me. Then went this saying
abroad among the brethren, that that disciple should
not die: yet Jesus said not unto him, He shall not die;
but, If I will that he tarry till I come, what is that to
thee?” (Jno. 21:21-23). Having reported the popular
misconception among the early brethren, John disallows
entirely that his remaining alive until Jesus’ return meant
he would not suffer death. In another place, Jesus made
the like announcement: “For the Son of man shall come
in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he
shall reward every man according to his works. Verily
I say unto you, There be some standing here, which
shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man
coming in his kingdom.” (Matt. 16:27, 28). Notice
that Jesus did not say death would cease at his coming.
He merely said some would not taste death before he came.
Jesus would come before they tasted death and only then
would they die. Read together, it is clear that John was
to be one of those people. Thus, the idea that Jesus’
coming entailed an end of physical existence in which
the righteous would be borne away to heavenly portals
was simply without basis and was not the teaching of
Christ or the apostles. There was to be no bodily rapture.
Misunderstanding was not limited to the rapture.
Some wrestled with the resurrection itself, questioning
or denying its very possibility. Questions about the
resurrection entailed the sort of body men would receive
(I Cor. 15:35). Questions of this sort occurred also among
the Jews. The Sadducees, although denying the resurrection,
clearly conceived that any putative resurrection would occur
in the flesh. Because of this conception, the Sadducees
believed they had discovered an indissoluble dilemma,
refuting the notion of the resurrection, by the question
about the seven brothers who had one woman to wife,
asking, “Whose wife would she be in the resurrection,
since each had her?” (Matt. 22:23-33). The basic assumption
is that the resurrection would be physical and therefore
entail marriage. It is unclear whether this was the popular
conception of the resurrection or merely the Sadducees’
idea of it. The better view probably is that it reflected
popular belief, for it would hardly make sense for the
Sadducees to propound a hypothetical about the fact
and nature of the resurrection that was peculiar merely
to themselves, and not shared by the community at large.
In that case, the question would refute only their notion
of the resurrection, but not that of the general public,
whose belief it was their objective to dislodge. Hence,
the necessary and reasonable inference is that it reflected
the general understanding of the Jews of Jesus’ day.
But, whether it be this or that, one thing is clear: Jesus
disallowed the concept entirely. First, by proof that the
patriarchs had not ceased to exist, but were participants
in the first resurrection in hades paradise (vv. 31, 32);
second, by showing that in the general resurrection men
would subsist in the form of angels (vv. 29, 30). The
resurrection would not be physical; hence there would
be no marriage.
Jewish misunderstanding about the nature of the
resurrection had its counterpart in the church which
Paul labored to correct. He dispensed with the idea
of a physical resurrection by his statement “And that
which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that
shall be” (I Cor. 15:37). Could it be any clearer?
The body that is sown (buried) is not the body that
is reaped. A physical body is planted, but a spiritual
body is raised up. “So also is the resurrection of
the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in
incorruption…It is sown a natural body; it is raised
a spiritual body” (I Cor. 15:42, 43). There is simply
no credible way to read physical bodies into the text
and spiritual bodies out. The mistake lies in the
assumption that the resurrection would occur upon
earth and, hence, be earthly. However, a physical
grave cannot retain the spirits of the deceased.
The grave had an immaterial counterpart called
hades where the spirits of the departed “slept”
pending the second resurrection.
(Lk. 16:19-31; 24:43) Since these souls were not bound
to their earthly bodies, it would not be necessary for
them to be reunited to their bodies in order to inherit
glory. Just the opposite, “flesh and blood cannot inherit
the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit
incorruption” (I Cor. 15:50). Absent from the body
is present with the Lord. (II Cor. 5:8)
Creeds and Confessions Embody Error of Early Church
Notwithstanding the apostle’s labors, error took root;
belief in a bodily rapture and resurrection of the dead
at Christ’s return gained currency and took up permanent
residence in the early church. Both are evidenced by the
creeds that grew up among believing Gentiles. For example,
the Interrogatory Creed of Hippolytus (c. 215 A.D.) thus
asks, “Do you believe…in the resurrection of the body?”.
Similarly, the Creed of Marcellus (340 A.D.) declares:
“I believe in…the resurrection of the body”. The Creed
of Rufinus (c. 404 A.D.) is more explicit and declares
“I believe in the resurrection of the flesh”. The Apostles’
Creed proclaims belief in the resurrection of the body,
but the Nicene Creed states only a belief in the
resurrection of the “dead”. Other creeds and confessions
holding to the resurrection of the flesh include the
Athanasian Creed, and the second London Confession
of 1689 (Baptist). Although the term “body” is ambiguous
and elastic enough to mean spiritual bodies, we may
assume that physical bodies was intended and understood.
Thus, the creeds perpetuated the error of the Jews and
early church in a physical resurrection. The error reported
by John that there was to be a bodily rapture at the Lord’s
return also survived and has continued to this day.
The heirs to the creeds were the articles and confessions
of faith of later centuries. For example, chapter XXXII
of the Westminster Confession - Of the State of Men
after Death, and of the Resurrection of the Dead - states:
1. The bodies of men, after death, return to dust, and see
corruption: but their souls, which neither die nor sleep,
having an immortal subsistence, immediately return to God
who gave them: the souls of the righteous, being then made
perfect in holiness, are received into the highest heavens,
where they behold the face of God, in light and glory,
waiting for the full redemption of their bodies. And the
souls of the wicked are cast into hell, where they remain
in torments and utter darkness, reserved to the judgment
of the great day. Beside these two places, for souls
separated from their bodies, the Scripture acknowledgeth
none.
2. At the last day, such as are found alive shall not die,
but be changed: and all the dead shall be raised up,
with the self-same bodies, and none other (although
with different qualities), which shall be united again
to their souls for ever.
3. The bodies of the unjust shall, by the power of Christ,
be raised to dishonour: the bodies of the just, by His
Spirit, unto honour; and be made conformable to His
own glorious body.
Notice the confused eschatology here that has the souls
of the dead by-passing hades and going immediately
to heaven where they behold the face of God, there
awaiting the redemption of their bodies, to which they
are subsequently forced to return. What possible purpose
could there be in reuniting the spirits of the saints with
their earthly bodies? Being in a state suited to behold
the face of God in perfect holiness, what is the need
to clothe them again with houses of clay? Having begun
in the spirit are they made perfect by the flesh? Such
is the garbled teaching of the Westminster Confession.
Another doctrinal statement holding to the resurrection
of the flesh is the Belgic Confession (Reformed Church):
“Finally we believe, according to God's Word, that when
the time appointed by the Lord is come (which is unknown
to all creatures) and the number of the elect is complete,
our Lord Jesus Christ will come from heaven, bodily
and visibly, as he ascended, with great glory and majesty,
to declare himself the judge of the living and the dead.
He will burn this old world, in fire and flame, in order
to cleanse it. Then all human creatures will appear
in person before the great judge-- men, women,
and children, who have lived from the beginning until
the end of the world. They will be summoned there
by the voice of the archangel and by the sound of
the divine trumpet. For all those who died before
that time will be raised from the earth, their spirits
being joined and united with their own bodies in
which they lived. And as for those who are still alive,
they will not die like the others but will be changed
‘in the twinkling of an eye’ from ‘corruptible to
incorruptible.’”
The notion that Christ would return “bodily and visibly”
is closely related to the idea of a bodily rapture and
a fleshly resurrection. Hence, the Belgic Confession
weaves all three of these concepts together. Bodies,
by definition, are confined by time and space. But
Jesus is “ascended far above all heavens, that he might
fill all things.” (Eph. 4:10). Only spirit is unbound
by time and space and can fill all things. Hence, Jesus
is no longer in bodily form, at least in any earthly
meaning and conception of that term. Rather, he is
Spirit (I Cor. 15:45; II Cor. 3:17). Colossians is not
to the contrary. When Col. 2:9 states that in Christ
“dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily”,
the apostle is not referring to Christ’s form or appearance.
He is referring to fulness of divine authority and God’s
redemptive purpose that the Father embodied in Christ.
Under the Mosaic law man was incomplete; “for the law
made nothing perfect.” (Heb. 7:19). But “ye are complete
in him, which is the head of all principality and power.”
(Col. 2:10). The law was wistful, “a shadow of things to
come; but the body is of Christ.” (Col. 2:17). The “body”
here speaks to the tangible nature of things come, the
substance and reality of the promises embodied in Christ
of which the law was but a shadow and type. Because
Christ is not in bodily form he is invisible to human eye.
After his ascension, visions of Jesus required special
revelation of the Spirit (Rev. 1:10 et seq; cf. Acts 9:7).
The doctrine of Christ’s bodily and visible return is
erroneous. His coming would not be bodily, it would
be providential; it would not be visible, it would be
historically discernable. In Matt. 24:30, Jesus said
there would “appear” the sign of the Son of man ruling
in heaven in the events marking the destruction of the
city and temple. Speaking to his coming in wrath and
vengeance upon the nation of the Jews, Jesus told the
Sanhedrin, “I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting
on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds
of heaven.” (Mk. 14:62; cf. Matt. 24:30). This is the
same coming “in his kingdom” Jesus told the apostles
would transpire while some of them were still alive
(Matt. 16:27, 28; Mk. 8:38-9:1).
The idea that the “self-same” physical bodies are to
be raised up at the last day is every bit as erroneous
as the “visible, bodily” return of Christ. Not one verse
of scripture can be marshaled to establish such claim.
Jesus’ statement that all who are in the graves would
hear his voice and come forth (Jno. 5:25-29) neither
says nor implies the resurrection of physical bodies.
The redemption of men’s bodies is no part of the
redemptive work of Christ. Those holding this view
place the resurrection on the wrong side of eternity.
They place the resurrection in the temporal realm of
the flesh, rather than the eternal realm of the spirit
where it should be.
Modern Apologists
Modern apologists are not wanting for these ancient errors.
One prominent member of this description is Kenneth L.
Gentry Jr. Gentry, who has done a good deal of valuable
work in other areas, is sorely wanting in this particular
area of endeavor. He is a vociferous defender of a
resurrection of the flesh, denouncing as heterodox all
who venture to disagree. Taking cheap shots at Preterists
from the safety of his ivory tower, he refuses to do battle
in public debate. Gentry asserts that “If Christ was
physically raised from the dead, then so shall we,
for He is the "first-fruits" of our resurrection. The only
way around our physical resurrection is to deny Christ's
physical resurrection.”. This is poor argumentation.
Reduced to a syllogism, Gentry’s argument looks like this:
Major premise: Christ was raised physically.
Minor premise: Christ was the “first-fruits” of our
resurrection; therefore:
Conclusion: Our resurrection will be physical like Christ’s.
It does not take a logician to see that the conclusion
does not follow from the premises. Furthermore,
Gentry’s conclusion is based upon an unproved premise:
there is no evidence that the term “first-fruits” applies
to man’s body and much against it. Like virtually
every other bodily resurrection recorded in scripture,
Jesus’ resurrection first and foremost was evidentiary;
it was intended to serve as a demonstration of God’s
power and work among his people. Rom. 1:4 says
Jesus was “declared to the Son of God with power,
according to the spirit of holiness, by the resurrection
from the dead.”. In the resurrection, God declared
Jesus to be his Son, vindicating Jesus’ claims during
his life. But this could not be accomplished without
the resurrection of Jesus’ body. Had God merely wafted
Jesus’ spirit to heaven, there would have been no objective
proof of Christ’s Sonship. To the contrary, the continuing
presence of the body in the tomb would have shown Jesus
a fraud and a liar. In fact, the very purpose behind the
open tomb was so that man could go in and see the Lord
was risen indeed, not so Jesus could come out. The bodily
resurrection of the Lord provided empirical evidence that
Jesus was the Son of God, of which the apostles were
made witnesses (Mk. Lk. 24:48; Acts 1:8). The bodily
resurrection of Christ thus served a unique purpose that
makes Jesus’ resurrection unlike our own. The Hebrew
writer speaks to the resurrection of Christ when he states
that Jesus “in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up
prayers and supplications with strong crying and tears unto
him that was able to save him from death, and was heard
in that he feared.” (Heb. 5:7). Notice that “the days of
his flesh” are set over against Jesus’ present form when
he is ascended into heaven and set down at the right hand
of God. Jesus is no longer in fleshly form and it is unto
this hope that believers aspire, not the reunion of their
spirits with their earthly bodies.
Another argument by Gentry is that the “spiritual
(pneumatikos) body” of I Cor. 15:44 is no more immaterial
than the “natural (psuchikos) body”. This rather startling
assertion is based upon use of the terms pneumatikos
(spiritual) and psuchikos (natural) to describe the
Christian over against the unbeliever:
“But the natural (psuchikos) man receiveth not the things
of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him:
neither can he know them, because they are spiritually
discerned. But he that is spiritual (pneumatikos)
judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.”
(I Cor. 2:14, 15).
The terms “natural” and “spiritual” in this context speak
to the “driving force” or controlling principle in the
individuals’ lives, not their material or immaterial state.
Hence, Gentry argues, the “spiritual body” of I Cor. 15:44
speaks only to its controlling principle, not its material
or immaterial form. Therefore, although in the resurrection
the body will actually be physical, it will qualitatively be
“spiritual”. Or, so at least Gentry would have us believe.
The better view, however, is that the term “spiritual” in
I Cor. 15:44 is substantive, not qualitative, and that the
body of the resurrection will be intangible, immaterial,
and eternal. The spiritual man has a physical body only
because he has not yet put it off in death. Upon the death
of the body, the inner man lives on, clothed upon with a
spiritual body of life. “But though our outward man perish,
yet the inward man is renewed day by day.” (II Cor. 4:16).
“For we know that if our earthly house of this tabernacle
were dissolved, we have a building of God, and house
not made with hands, eternal in the heavens, made
without hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we
groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed upon with our
house which is from heaven.” (II Cor. 5:1). The
“earthly house” is the fleshly body of this material realm.
Upon death, it is replaced by a spiritual and immaterial
house from heaven. Since it is from heaven, it clearly
is not the “self same” earthly body put off in death.
In the resurrection we will be spirit beings with spiritual
bodies (Heb. 12:23; I Cor. 5:5). We will be as the angels
(Matt. 22:30): Intanglible, immaterial, imperishable,
and eternal.
Scriptures for the Resurrection of the Flesh
The reason Gentry argues for the resurrection of the flesh,
is that he believes the saints’ eternal reward is in the
material realm upon a new earth! “His elect people will
inherit the eternal estate in resurrected, physical bodies
(Jn. 5:28-29; 1 Cor. 15:20-28) so that we might dwell
in a material New Creation order (2 Pet. 3:8-13)”.
This belief is utterly fantastic coming from someone
of Gentry’s talent and ability. It stems from his belief
in Postmillennialism, which holds that God’s redemptive
purpose culminates in a redeemed, material creation.
Never mind countless statements in scripture pointing
to the fact that the saints inheritance is in heaven
(Phil. 3:20; Col. 3:1-3; I Thess. 4:17; I Tim. 6:7;
II Tim. 2:11; Heb. 11:13, 16; I Pet. 1:4) we are now
to believe that our eternal state is upon earth. Little
wonder Postmillennialists argue for the resurrection
of the flesh! Language mentioning a “new heaven
and earth” (Isa. 65:17: 66:22; II Pet. 3:13; Rev. 21:1)
is symbolic of the Messianic age, the regeneration
and restitution of all things in Christ (Matt. 19:28;
Acts 3:21). These came in fulness at the end of the
Mosaic age and destruction of Jerusalem and the temple
(Matt. 24:1-3, 34; cf. Eph. 1:21; Heb. 2:5; 6:5). They
were the “good things to come” of the law (Col. 2:17;
Heb. 10:1) and Christ’s High Priesthood (Heb. 9:11),
which early Christians groaned for and were in earnest
expectation (Rom. 8:19-23). Since references to the new
heaven and earth are symbolic, they must be interpreted
and brought into harmony with plain passages of scripture
elsewhere, not vice versa. Simply put, the idea that our
eternal state is on a redeemed earth is frivolous. It is
the stuff we have come to associate with Premillennialism,
not serious scholarship. The spiritually discerning will
reject it out of hand.
What about the resurrection of the flesh? Do advocates
of this school have any verses plainly making this claim?
Here are the verses cited by Gentry, our comments follow.
Job 19:25-26: “For I know that my redeemer liveth,
and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth:
And though after my skin worms destroy this body,
yet in my flesh shall I see God.”
<Pastor Dave inserted note: It isn't really necessary
for him to argue this verse, because from the Hebrew,
it doesn't say "in my flesh" and this is simply bias on
the part of the Futurist translators. There are two
words here, that are translated into the phrase,
"in my flesh" ("min" and "basar"). If you look up
"min", you'll see, "out of" in the definition. But
he is not arguing that, but the fact that the verse
doesn't actually say, "resurrection", so it is worth
going over.>
This is the only verse in the Bible that makes reference
to the flesh in apparent connection with the resurrection.
“Apparent”, I say, because the verse does not actually
mention the resurrection. It is entirely possible that Job
looked to “see God” in this life time, as in fact he did.
“I have heard of thee by the hearing of the ear: but now
mine eye seeth thee.” (Job 42:5). However, even assuming
that the text posits a resurrection context, the Hebrew
of this verse is so ambiguous that scholars cannot decide
how it is to be translated. Hence, the marginal reading
gives the rendering, “After I shall awake, though this
body be destroyed, yet out of my flesh...” etc. Thus, it
is unclear what Job actually stated or said. Furthermore,
the book of Job is highly poetic; it is very possible that
his use of the term “flesh” was not intended to be taken
literally at all. Given that this is the only place in
scripture referring to the flesh in the context of the
resurrection, we would be well advised to opt for the
alternate rendering. At the very least, standing as it
does alone, no doctrine of scripture can be built upon it.
Isa. 26:19: “Thy dead men shall live, together with
my dead body shall they arise. Awake and sing, ye
that dwell in dust: for thy dew is as the dew of herbs,
and the earth shall cast out the dead.”
The historical context of this verse spoke to the
restoration of Israel to its land after the captivity.
The Jews were like “dead men” in the grave of captivity
in Babylon. “My dead body” refers to the Jews collectively.
This same image is given by Ezekiel in the prophecy of
the valley full of dry bones (Ezek. 27:1-14). This is the
standard interpretation, almost universally acknowledged
by the commentators. However, that there is also a Messianic
dimension to the passage that looks to the resurrection
of Christ and the salvation of believers cannot be denied.
Even so, other than Christ’s, the resurrection of physical
bodies is not mentioned. But, even if they were, the text
is couched in poetic terms, hence we would not want to
overly press the literalness of the passage in any event.
The bottom line: Physical bodies are nowhere set out.
Jno. 5:28, 29: “Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming,
in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice
and shall come forth; they that have done good, unto
the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil,
unto the resurrection of damnation.”
As with Isa. 26:19, no physical bodies are mentioned.
All Jesus says is that those in the graves will come forth.
Contrary to Gentry’s assumption, Jesus did not say they
would come forth on this side of eternity. Daniel made
the like statement, saying, “many of them that sleep in
the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life,
and some to shame and everlasting contempt.” (Dan. 12:2).
This language is obviously poetic: The dead do not “sleep”
in the earth; their spirits go to hades. Hence, the idea of
“waking” from the dust is merely accommodative; it points
to a coming day of salvation when the death would be
vanquished and man go to his long home with God and
Christ in heaven.
Rom. 8:11: “But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus
from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from
the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his
Spirit that dwelleth in you.”
“Quickening” our mortal bodies does not refer to the
resurrection of the body, but the regenerative effects
of God’s spirit in man by the mortification of the flesh.
“For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye
through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body,
ye shall live.” (Rom. 8:13; cf. Gal. 5:24). This is the
more apparent in that the immediately preceding verse
Paul says “the body is dead because of sin.” (Rom. 8:10).
The saints at Rome were not dead and their bodies were
not dead either; the apostle is merely using a figure of
speech. As the source of fleshly lusts, the body is
spiritually “dead.” But by being brought into subjection
to the Spirit the body is figuratively quickened and made
an instrument of righteousness. Peter says substantially
the same thing: “For he that hath suffered in the flesh
hath ceased from sin; that he no longer should live the
rest of his time in the flesh to the lusts of men, but to
the will of God.” (I Pet. 4:1). In other words, just as
man’s spirit is quickened and made alive by the new birth
(Eph. 2:1; Col. 2:13), so the body is “quickened” as it
is brought into subjection to God’s spirit and its lusts
mortified.
Rom. 8:23: “And not only they, but ourselves also,
which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves
groan within ourselves , waiting for the adoption, to wit,
the redemption of our body.”
“They” are the Gentiles, “we ourselves” refers to the Jews;
the Jews had the firstfruits of the Spirit: “Of his own will
begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be
a kind of firstfruits of his creatures.” (Jm. 1:18). The
gospel message began at Jerusalem and was preached
first to the Jews. Hence they were the firstfruits unto
God and the Lamb (Rev. 14:4; cf. Acts 3:26; 13:46;
Eph. 1:12, 13). Both Jews and Gentiles groaned, looking
for the adoption of their collective body, the church.
This occurred at the consummation in A.D. 70 when
the church was manifested as the sons of God and
received the decree of adoption by the destruction
of the Jewish state, and removal of the Mosaic system
and temple. Nowhere does the text mention either
the resurrection or physical bodies.
Phil. 3:20, 21: “For our conversation is in heaven; from
whence we look for the Saviour, the Lord Jesus Christ:
Who shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned
like unto his glorious body, according to the working
whereby he is able even to subdue all things unto himself.”
The singular “our vile body” refers to the collective body
of Jews and Gentiles waiting for the redemption and adoption
of the church (Cf. Rom. 8:19-23). Until the consummation
in A.D. 70, the church was still under bondage of corruption
to sin and death was in earnest expectation of the promised
redemption (Eph. 1:13, 14). The change referred to here
is best understood as legal and soteriological, not bodily
or physical; it is the sanctification and cleansing of the
church by Christ, “that he might present it to himself a
glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such
thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.”
(Eph. 5:26, 27). The glorious church answers to the
glorious body of the Lord. The presentment of the church
to himself came at the consummation of the nuptials in
A.D. 70 (Rev. 19:7; 21:9, 10). Notwithstanding the
collective nature of this passage, by analogy we believe
the body of sin which is put off in death is replaced by
a glorious body in the resurrection of life. The glorified
body is not physical, but spiritual, unbounded by time
and space.
I Thess. 4:16: “For the Lord himself shall descend from
heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel,
and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall
rise first.”
We need only note that physical bodies are not mentioned.
The very next verse says that those living would be caught
up with them in the air “and so shall we ever be with the
Lord.” (v. 17). Unless the Lord is going to remain on earth
forever, this verse cannot be reconciled with the idea of
our eternal state being on a material new earth. Clearly,
the language is accommodative and not to be taken literally.
It is descriptive of the victory of the saints and their
translation to heaven as a matter of law at the
consummation (Col. 1:13, 3:1; Eph. 2:1, 6). Their final
translation to heaven as a matter of fact comes only upon
the death of the body. To be absent from the body is to
be present with the Lord. (II Cor. 5: 6, 8)
Scriptures against the Resurrection of the Flesh
These above verses are relied upon by advocates of
a resurrection of the flesh. As we have seen, the idea
of a physical resurrection is completely away from virtually
every scripture cited; the notion has no more basis than
the fanciful notion of man’s eternal state subsisting in a
“material New Created order”. Let us now look at a few
verses pointing to the resurrection of the spirit and the
inheritance of the saints in the immaterial realm of heaven.
Although dozens of verses might be marshaled, space does
not allow us to consider more than a few.
Lk. 23:43: “Verily I say unto thee, This day shalt thou be
with me in paradise."
These words, spoken by the Lord in the immediate reaches
of death, bore the promise of the first resurrection of the
spirit in hades paradise. Since physical bodies are no part
of the first resurrection, what basis is there to believe
they will be part of the second resurrection of the soul in
heaven? To the contrary, “flesh and blood cannot inherit
the kingdom of God.” (I Cor. 15:50).
Jno. 3:5-7: “Verily, verily I say unto thee, Except a man
be born of water and of the Spirit he cannot enter the
kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh;
and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not
that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again.”
This verse shows that there are two natures: one belonging
to the kingdom of heaven, one belonging to the earth.
The earthly nature and body do not enter the kingdom
of God, the spirit does.
Jno. 4:24: “God is a Spirit: and they that worship him
must worship him in spirit and in truth.”
This verse is dispositive of the idea that physical bodies
have any part of the heavenly kingdom. In Lk. 24:38,
Jesus said “Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I
myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh
and bones, as ye see me have.”. Since God is a Spirit,
and spirits do not have flesh and bones, it is axiomatic
that God does not have flesh and bone. Christ is now
a Spirit (I Cor. 15:45; II Cor. 3:17). In the resurrection,
Christians are to be made like unto Christ and God
(Ps. 17:15; Rom. 8:29; I Cor. 15:49). Hence, we will
be spirit-beings without flesh and bone.
Jno. 6:63: “It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh
profiteth nothing.”
The flesh profits nothing in terms of man’s redemption,
sanctification, and salvation. It is suitable only for
dwelling upon earth where life is bounded by time and
space and consigned to corruption. It is the spirit that
is quickened and receives eternal life, not the flesh.
Rom. 8:10: “And if Christ be in you, the body is dead
because of sin; but the Spirit is life
because of righteousness.”
The body is the source of sin and temptation. “The
flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against
the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other.”
(Gal. 5:17). If the flesh is contrary to the Spirit, it is
hardly possible that it will be saved. If men are to be
restored to the original state of the creation before the
fall as Postmillennialists assert, like Adam they will be
susceptible to sin and temptation arising in the flesh.
Unless we are prepared to believe the whole race is to
be exposed to the risk of a second fall, we must reject
this fanciful scheme.
I Cor. 5:5: “Deliver such an one unto Satan for the
destruction of the flesh, that the spirit
may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.”
“Destruction” of the flesh here is best understood in terms
of its mortification by denying its affections and lusts.
By excommunicating those overtaken in sin, they are
brought to shame and repentance, leading to the denial
and destruction of the flesh. By thus “crucifying the
flesh” (Gal. 5:24), the spirit is restored to purity,
suitable unto salvation. The flesh expressly excluded
from the spirit’s salvation.
I Cor. 15:44, 49, 50: “It is sown a natural body; it is
raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and
there is a spiritual body…As we have borne the image
of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot
inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption
inherit incorruption.”
Here are several plain statements that set the earthly and
fleshly body over against the spiritual and heavenly body.
The image of the earthy consists in a natural, fleshly body
and carnal mind. The image of the heavenly consists in
a regenerated mind and an immaterial body. The natural
and material body of earth is corruptible; the heavenly
and immaterial body of the spirit is incorruptible. The
promise of the resurrection is of an immaterial body, like
unto Christ and the angels of God in heaven (Matt. 22:25).
II Cor. 4:16-18: “For which cause we faint not; but though
our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed
day by day. For our light affliction, which is but for a
moment, worketh for us a far more exceeding and eternal
weight of glory; while we look not at the things which are
seen, but at the things which are not see: for the things
which are seen are temporal; but the things which are
not seen are eternal.”
The material is visible and temporal; the immaterial is
invisible and eternal. Although the outward and material
man perish, the inward, immaterial man is renewed day
by day. The body will perish, but the spirit will inherit
eternal life.
II Cor. 5:1: “For we know that if our earthly house of
this tabernacle were dissolved, we have a building of God,
an house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens.”
Our “earthly house” refers to our mortal bodies of flesh;
“this tabernacle” refers to this temporal realm, the
tabernacle of the material heavens and earth. Dissolution
of our earthly house speaks to putting off the body
in death. The “building of God, not made with hands,
eternal in the heavens” speaks to our immortal, immaterial,
and spiritual bodies.
II Cor. 5:2, 3: “For in this we groan, earnestly desiring
to be clothed upon with our house which is from heaven.
If so be that being clothed we shall not be found naked.”
In the resurrection, we are clothed with our immaterial and
immortal house from heaven, not our fleshly, mortal bodies
of earth. “Naked” speaks to putting off the body of flesh
in death; “clothed” speaks to putting on the spiritual body
in the resurrection of life.
II Cor. 5:6-8: “Therefore we are always confident, knowing
that, whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent
from the Lord (For we walk by faith not by sight:): We
are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from
the body, and to be present with the Lord.”
Could the apostle have made it more plain? We would be
absent from the body of flesh that we might be at home
with the Lord. If, in the resurrection we are reunited with
the body, we will again be at home in the body and absent
from the Lord. Clearly, that is no part of the Christian’s
hope.
Gal. 3:3: “Are ye so foolish? Having begun in the Spirit,
are ye now made perfect by the flesh?”
Those who hold that the “spirits of just men made perfect”
(Heb. 12:23) must be reunited with the flesh to be complete
and inherit eternal life, fall under the like condemnation
Paul reproaches the Galatians with. The completion of
man’s salvation is the union of spirit with God in heaven,
not being newly clothed upon with bodies of clay.
Heb. 11:13, 17: “These all died in faith, not having
received the promises, but having seen them afar off,
and were persuaded of them, and embraced them,
anc confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims
on earth…But now they desire a better country, that
is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be
called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.”
Note that the patriarchs and great men of faith were
strangers upon earth and looked for an heavenly city
and country. The notion that man’s eternal state is
in a material new earth is irresponsible and boarders
on heretical. It is an express denial of the scripture.
Heb. 12:23: “To the general assembly and church of
the firstborn, which are written in heaven, and to God
the Judge of all, and to the spirits of just men made
perfect.”
The spirits of the righteous who died before Christ were
not wanting bodies, but atonement. With the “blood of
sprinkling” (v. 22) they were made wholly perfect and
the way into heaven opened to them. What need have
they of fleshly bodies seeing they are already perfect?
Moreover, the general assembly of the firstborn (the church)
are written in heaven, not a new earth. Our conversation
is in heaven (Phil. 3:20); we are to set our affections
there (Col. 3:1) because that is the place of our eternal
abode (Heb. 12:10, 13, 16).
I Pet. 4:6: “For for this cause was the gospel preached
also unto them that are dead, that they might be judged
according to men in the flesh, but live according to God
in the spirit.”
This verse likely speaks to the saints of prior ages who had
the gospel preached to them in the types and similitudes of
the Old Law. Although condemned by the law according to
men in the flesh, they were justified by the atoning blood
of Christ that they might live according to God in the
spirit. To be reunited with bodies of clay is no part of
the divine purpose.
Rev. 20:12, 13: “And I saw the dead, small and great stand
before God; and the books were opened: and another book
was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were
judged out of those things which were written in the books,
according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead
which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead
which were in them: and they were judged every man
according to their works.”
Here is imagery portraying judgment day. We note that
physical bodies are conspicuously absent. The dead stand
before God. That they are “dead”, signifies they are on
the other side of eternity in the realm of the spirit, not
upon earth. The “sea” is symbolic of tartarus, the place
of the lost dead; “hell” (hades) speaks to paradise, the
place of the saints and martyrs. The dead come forth
from hades tartarus and paradise to receive their respective
rewards. The whole transaction is portrayed as occurring
in the realm of the spirit, not the flesh, in the immaterial
realm of eternity, and not time.
Conclusion
The error of the Jews and early church has been kept alive
by those today who look for a fleshly resurrection upon
earth. The earthly resurrection of the believer is related
to the error of the bodily, visible return of Christ and
the bodily rapture of the saints. By very definition,
the spiritual realm is eternal and immaterial. Flesh and
blood bodies are bounded by time and space and therefore
cannot inherit incorruption. Let us hold fast to our hope
for we will reap in due time.
http://www.preteristarchive.com/Preterism/simmons_kurt_03_p_03.html
--
If you wouldn't say it in person, why say it online?
To email me, just remove the underscores.
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: * Christ and the Resurrection of the Flesh * |
24 Sep 2007 09:03:34 AM |
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"Pastor Dave" <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:82tef3lrl9nopgrm5o8inm4vo0p17ponrn@4ax.com...
The Resurrection of the Flesh
LOL
Jesus had doubting Thomas thrust his hands into Jesus' side and hands to
feel the scars so everyone would know His resurrection was LITERAL and
PHYSICAL.
But you do always ignore scripture.
Ike
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| User: "TBC/Soggy ` `" |
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| Title: Re: * Christ and the Resurrection of the Flesh * |
24 Sep 2007 09:41:57 AM |
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"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <xeickleberrybooks@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:WsPJi.3895$Pc3.3530@trndny09...
"Pastor Dave" <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:82tef3lrl9nopgrm5o8inm4vo0p17ponrn@4ax.com...
The Resurrection of the Flesh
LOL
Jesus had doubting Thomas thrust his hands into Jesus' side and hands to
feel the scars so everyone would know His resurrection was LITERAL and
PHYSICAL.
But you do always ignore scripture.
Ike
Nope, Thomas didn't, he just fell down and woshiped him. It was at the
previous appearence to the disciples when he ate the fish and bread that he
had them touch him, "A spirit has not flesh and bones".
I know it's easy to smack down Dave but these scriptures should give us JOY
and hope, Dave is lost in darkness.
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: * Christ and the Resurrection of the Flesh * |
24 Sep 2007 03:41:53 PM |
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"TBC/Soggy ` `" <Pray@PrayerTime.com> wrote in message
news:e505$46f7cce5$d066ef45$6697@FUSE.NET...
"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <xeickleberrybooks@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:WsPJi.3895$Pc3.3530@trndny09...
"Pastor Dave" <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:82tef3lrl9nopgrm5o8inm4vo0p17ponrn@4ax.com...
The Resurrection of the Flesh
LOL
Jesus had doubting Thomas thrust his hands into Jesus' side and hands to
feel the scars so everyone would know His resurrection was LITERAL and
PHYSICAL.
But you do always ignore scripture.
Ike
Nope, Thomas didn't, he just fell down and woshiped him. It was at the
previous appearence to the disciples when he ate the fish and bread that
he had them touch him, "A spirit has not flesh and bones".
I know it's easy to smack down Dave but these scriptures should give us
JOY and hope, Dave is lost in darkness.
Amen to that.
Ike
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: * Christ and the Resurrection of the Flesh * |
25 Sep 2007 03:23:15 AM |
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On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 10:41:57 -0400, "TBC/Soggy ` `"
<Pray@PrayerTime.com> wrote:
"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <xeickleberrybooks@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:WsPJi.3895$Pc3.3530@trndny09...
"Pastor Dave" <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:82tef3lrl9nopgrm5o8inm4vo0p17ponrn@4ax.com...
The Resurrection of the Flesh
LOL
Jesus had doubting Thomas thrust his hands into Jesus' side and hands to
feel the scars so everyone would know His resurrection was LITERAL and
PHYSICAL.
But you do always ignore scripture.
Ike
Nope, Thomas didn't, he just fell down and woshiped him. It was at the
previous appearence to the disciples when he ate the fish and bread that he
had them touch him, "A spirit has not flesh and bones".
I know it's easy to smack down Dave but these scriptures should give us JOY
and hope, Dave is lost in darkness.
The fact is, that the post dealt with these things
and neither of you could dispute what the post
said and that's why it was snipped.
And Ike emphasized the wrong word. He should
have said...
"Jesus had doubting Thomas thrust his hands into
Jesus' side and hands to feel the scars so everyone
would know *_HIS_* resurrection was literal and
physical."
--
If you wouldn't say it in person, why say it online?
To email me, just remove the underscores.
.
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: * Christ and the Resurrection of the Flesh * |
25 Sep 2007 07:44:28 AM |
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"Pastor Dave" <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:35hhf3p98km43ed2an3es3s53vme83dfv3@4ax.com...
On Mon, 24 Sep 2007 10:41:57 -0400, "TBC/Soggy ` `"
<Pray@PrayerTime.com> wrote:
"H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." <xeickleberrybooks@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:WsPJi.3895$Pc3.3530@trndny09...
"Pastor Dave" <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:82tef3lrl9nopgrm5o8inm4vo0p17ponrn@4ax.com...
The Resurrection of the Flesh
LOL
Jesus had doubting Thomas thrust his hands into Jesus' side and hands to
feel the scars so everyone would know His resurrection was LITERAL and
PHYSICAL.
But you do always ignore scripture.
Ike
Nope, Thomas didn't, he just fell down and woshiped him. It was at the
previous appearence to the disciples when he ate the fish and bread that
he
had them touch him, "A spirit has not flesh and bones".
I know it's easy to smack down Dave but these scriptures should give us
JOY
and hope, Dave is lost in darkness.
The fact is, that the post dealt with these things
and neither of you could dispute what the post
said and that's why it was snipped.
And Ike emphasized the wrong word. He should
have said...
"Jesus had doubting Thomas thrust his hands into
Jesus' side and hands to feel the scars so everyone
would know *_HIS_* resurrection was literal and
physical."
Leave it to the liar to try and turn the facts around the wrong way: Jesus'
resurrection was literal and physical, hence His saying "A spirit is not
flesh and bones."
But let's not let something as little as the facts get in the way, right
Dave?
By the way, when did the Jews come up out of Babylon, Dave?
Ike
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| User: "Sam Taylor" |
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| Title: Re: * Christ and the Resurrection of the Flesh * |
25 Sep 2007 12:04:04 PM |
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By the way, when did the Jews come up out of Babylon, Dave?
Ike
I ain't dave, and even Dave is glad bout that
607 BC to about 677BC was the babylonian captivity
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: * Christ and the Resurrection of the Flesh * |
25 Sep 2007 03:12:14 PM |
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"Sam Taylor" <cygnet@cncnet.com> wrote in message
news:tnfif3pmm10r1hvg9j9pud7vodmpfs4a07@4ax.com...
By the way, when did the Jews come up out of Babylon, Dave?
Ike
I ain't dave, and even Dave is glad bout that
607 BC to about 677BC was the babylonian captivity
Sorry, but Dave's name was at the top of the post.
By way of explanation, the reason I ask Dave the question is that, if the
Jews came out of Babylon prior to the coming of Christ (which they did), and
the temple was rebuilt (which is was), then, in the immediate literal sense,
Jeremiah's prophecies were fulfilled, and if they were fulfilled, then,
according to the Preterist rule, there can't be anything in the Old
Testament that applies to Jesus', for all those prophecies were already
"absolutely and immediately fulfilled" according to the Preterist rules.
(Which highlights how ridiculous the Preterist rules are.)
Ike
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: * Christ and the Resurrection of the Flesh * |
26 Sep 2007 07:08:06 PM |
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On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 10:04:04 -0700, Sam Taylor
<cygnet@cncnet.com> wrote:
By the way, when did the Jews come up out of Babylon, Dave?
Ike
I ain't dave, and even Dave is glad bout that
607 BC to about 677BC was the babylonian captivity
Ike believes that everything has to be fulfilled three times
and when he couldn't prove that, he got the idea that this
stupid question fixes anything he can't dispute, as if any
date I gave, would somehow alleviate him from responding
to any and all questions and facts presented. He has been
so blinded by his doctrine, that he thinks this question
means that he has disputed the post I provided about
the resurrection.
--
If you wouldn't say it in person, why say it online?
To email me, just remove the underscores.
.
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: * Christ and the Resurrection of the Flesh * |
26 Sep 2007 11:06:26 PM |
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"Pastor Dave" <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:8uslf31kk94ngqrjf9lqsr2gl9jc49plqh@4ax.com...
On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 10:04:04 -0700, Sam Taylor
<cygnet@cncnet.com> wrote:
By the way, when did the Jews come up out of Babylon, Dave?
Ike
I ain't dave, and even Dave is glad bout that
607 BC to about 677BC was the babylonian captivity
Ike believes that everything has to be fulfilled three times
and when he couldn't prove that, he got the idea that this
stupid question fixes anything he can't dispute, as if any
date I gave, would somehow alleviate him from responding
to any and all questions and facts presented.
Nonsense.
1) I have proved it.
2) The question itself proves it, AND it proves the Preterism is nonsense.
He has been
so blinded by his doctrine, that he thinks this question
means that he has disputed the post I provided about
the resurrection.
LOL
Everyone has already disputed that nonsense.
So, Dave, when did the Jews come up out of Babylon?
Ike
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| User: "®andy" |
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| Title: Re: * Christ and the Resurrection of the Flesh * |
28 Sep 2007 11:49:09 AM |
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On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 20:08:06 -0400,
in article <8uslf31kk94ngqrjf9lqsr2gl9jc49plqh@4ax.com>,
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 10:04:04 -0700, Sam Taylor
<cygnet@cncnet.com> wrote:
By the way, when did the Jews come up out of Babylon, Dave?
Ike
I ain't dave, and even Dave is glad bout that
607 BC to about 677BC was the babylonian captivity
Ike believes that everything has to be fulfilled three times
and when he couldn't prove that, he got the idea that this
stupid question fixes anything he can't dispute, as if any
date I gave, would somehow alleviate him from responding
to any and all questions and facts presented. He has been
so blinded by his doctrine, that he thinks this question
means that he has disputed the post I provided about
the resurrection.
That you remain brazen, bold, shameless, and boastful in
promoting the glaring lie of preterism, despite the fact you
are routinely refuted on every point and every Scripture you
quote, only shows the futility of trying to reason with you.
You look right at lengthy passages of Scripture that
repeatedly demonstrate that the resurrection from the dead is
the resurrection/transformation of the dead seed which was
sown, then make up brazen lies like that the body is not
really the seed, as 1 Corinthians directly says it is, but
rather, is the "shell" of the seed, which you claim "falls
away". But see, your lies that you love force you to do
things like this at every point, because it is as obvious as
can be that the dead bodies of the saints were not raised from
the dead in A.D. 70, and you know it.
Never mind, you will invent your own reality, walk in the
imagination of your heart, then endlessly try to justify
yourself, as if everyone else is the defeated, arrogant, liar
you are.
©2007 pulpitfire.net, pulpitfire.org, pulpitfire.com
--
We demolish arguments and every pretension that sets itself
up against the knowledge of God, and we take captive every
thought to make it obedient to Christ. †2 Corinthians 10:5
Christ died for our sins, and God raised Him from the dead.
Rely on this work alone to escape hell and receive eternal
life (Jn. 3:16; 1 Cor. 15:1-3; Eph. 2:8-10; 2 Thess. 1:8-9).
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: * Christ and the Resurrection of the Flesh * |
29 Sep 2007 03:22:15 AM |
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On Fri, 28 Sep 2007 11:49:09 -0500, ®andy
<pulpitfire@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 26 Sep 2007 20:08:06 -0400,
in article <8uslf31kk94ngqrjf9lqsr2gl9jc49plqh@4ax.com>,
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 25 Sep 2007 10:04:04 -0700, Sam Taylor
<cygnet@cncnet.com> wrote:
By the way, when did the Jews come up out of Babylon, Dave?
Ike
I ain't dave, and even Dave is glad bout that
607 BC to about 677BC was the babylonian captivity
Ike believes that everything has to be fulfilled three times
and when he couldn't prove that, he got the idea that this
stupid question fixes anything he can't dispute, as if any
date I gave, would somehow alleviate him from responding
to any and all questions and facts presented. He has been
so blinded by his doctrine, that he thinks this question
means that he has disputed the post I provided about
the resurrection.
That you remain brazen, bold, shameless, and boastful in
promoting the glaring lie of preterism, despite the fact you
are routinely refuted on every point and every Scripture you
quote, only shows the futility of trying to reason with you.
Insults and lies do not prove anything.
Especially since you are one of the ones
who snipped the post and responded
with insults.
--
If you wouldn't say it in person, why say it online?
To email me, just remove the underscores.
.
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| User: "Fred A Stover" |
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| Title: Re: * Christ and the Resurrection of the Flesh * |
26 Sep 2007 01:09:43 AM |
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"Pastor Knave" < SATAN_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:82tef3lrl9nopgrm5o8inm4vo0p17ponrn@4ax.com...
The Resurrection of the Flesh
By Kurt M. Simmons
Since physical bodies are no part of the first resurrection,
what basis is there to believe they will be part of the
second resurrection of the soul in heaven?
ROTFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
As Satan once again shows his himself in knave.
His,
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon ota akoueto Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
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| User: "Sam Taylor" |
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| Title: Re: * Christ and the Resurrection of the Flesh * |
24 Sep 2007 02:27:50 PM |
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The 1st Adam was covered by a creation likened to the Skins of Animals
AFTER He sinned, most consider these as some sort of loin cloth....
BUT.... what is if this was actualy our Skin?
the life in that body would be the Blood, and not the spirit
so he could live dead until He died dead.
Could it be the spiritual body is Flesh and bone instead of flesh and
blood?
and the Spiritual is the same body covered by the Spirit insead of
flesh?
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