On Fri, 18 Jan 2008 00:10:04 -0800, "Chuck Stamford"
<shell__stamford@cox.net> said the following:
"Pastor Dave" wrote in message:
On Thu, 17 Jan 2008 01:55:04 -0800,
"Chuck Stamford" said the following:
"gatekeeper" wrote in message
Hey Chuck, where do you get off calling
Jesus Lord? That would indicate that
He has a Kingdom...
No, it wouldn't. He doesn't have to have
a kingdom to be my Lord. All that need
be for Him to be my Lord is that I submit
to and obey Him.
There's no such thing as someone being lord
over all, when they have no kingdom!
Non sequitur.
Bull! It was right on target and that's why you
snipped 99% of what I wrote and yet, you slam
others when they snip your words, you hypocrite!
Is He Lord over all, or not, Chucky?
The claim was
I don't trust your version of what the claim was,
since you are a known word twister and liar and
you are well known for snipping out whatever
proves what a Scripture torturer you are!
that my calling Jesus my Lord "indicated" Jesus
had a "Kingdom". It doesn't.
Then He isn't "Lord over all", AS YOU HAVE
PREVIOUSLY CLAIMED!!! And I dealt with
this issue, BUT YOU SNIPPED IT!!!
I have reinserted the text you snipped below.
All it needs indicate is my submission to His will.
This is true whether or not Jesus ALSO has a Kingdom.
Also??? Are you really that foolish?!?
And why would you submit to the will of one who
has no rule?! And He surely has no rule, if He
rules over nothing! You claim He rules over you,
but why would you submit to someone who has
no kingdom?! Would you submit to some guy
on the street, because he thinks you should?
Of course not!
But you submit to the President, because he is
President of the U.S.! But what if he was not?
Would you still submit? Same man, Chucky boy!
So what's the difference, that makes you say that
you won't submit to him? NO KINGDOM, Chuck!
And if Jesus does not rule over all, even now, almost
2,000 years later, then He was just some guy on the
street, Chuck! Hey, almost 2,000 YEARS LATER and
He STILL has NO KINGDOM, Chucky?! Please! That's
not a "Lord"! That's just some guy who went around
saying nice things, but was a liar, since what He said
never happened, even 2,000 years later and the Jews
were right to demand His crucifixion, by Deut 18:20-22!
Deuteronomy 18:20-22
20) But the prophet who presumes to speak a word
in My name, which I have not commanded him to speak,
or who speaks in the name of other gods, that prophet
shall die.
21) And if you say in your heart, How shall we know
the word which the Lord has not spoken?
22) When a prophet speaks in the name of the Lord,
if the thing does not happen or come to pass, that is
the thing which the LORD has not spoken; the prophet
has spoken it presumptuously; you shall not be afraid
of him.
And now, let's look at what He said...
"Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no
means pass away till all these things take place."
- Matthew 24:34
And that Greek word, translated into "assuredly",
in the original Greek, is very emphatic! It is as if
Jesus staked His whole credibility on this statement!
And Daniel 2:44 says that before the last of the four
kingdoms passed, Christ would rule! And we both
know the following two things:
1) The four kingdoms have passed!
a) Babylonian
b) Medo-Persian
c) Greek
d) Roman
2) Daniel, never, NOT ONCE said anything about either
a "revived Roman Empire", nor a "fifth kingdom"!
And Daniel 7:13-14 says that Christ took His throne
and began to rule when He ascended and it says that
at that time, He ruled even over the nations of Earth!
Note that He does not come FROM the Ancient of Days
(God the Father), but TO the Ancient of Days, on the
clouds! Also note that His rule, even over the nations,
is present tense to THAT TIME!
Daniel 7:13-14
13) I was watching in the night visions,
And behold, One like the Son of Man,
coming with the clouds of heaven!
He came *_TO_* the Ancient of Days,
and they brought Him near before Him.
14) *_THEN_* to Him was given dominion
and glory and a kingdom, that all peoples,
NATIONS, and languages should serve Him.
His dominion is an everlasting dominion,
which shall not pass away, and His KINGDOM
the one which shall not be destroyed.
So sorry Chuck, but He rules NOW!
And as for your claim of animal sacrifices and you
raising your hands in some supposed "rebuilt temple",
let's see what Hebrews says about your Dispy doctrine:
Hebrews 10:8-12
8) Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and
burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not,
neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by
the law;
No pleasure in the animal sacrifices by the Law
and yet, you claim that Jesus will be sitting in
this temple and take pleasure in it!
9) Then said he, Lo, I come to do thy will, O God.
He taketh away the first, that he may establish the
second.
The first is the Mosaic Law system. Jesus took it
away (Colossians shows us that Christ nailed the
Law to the cross and "took it out of the way")!
10) By the which will we are sanctified through the
offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
SANCTIFIED ONCE, FOR ALL!!! The only thing
that condemns a person now, is disbelief in Jesus
and that is what Jews would be doing, by trying
to get to Heaven through the Law! And yet,
you claim that Jesus will be there, praising this?!
Jesus said that He was the only way to God and yet,
you claim that the Jews have another way to God!
11) And every priest standeth daily ministering and
offering oftentimes the same sacrifices, which can
never take away sins:
These sacrifices can never take away sins and yet,
you claim that the Jews can do it!
12) But this man, after he had offered one sacrifice
for sins forever, sat down on the right hand of God.
Notice, ONE SACRIFICE that took away sins FOREVER!!!
And furthermore, Chuck...
If Jesus has no Kingdom, then He is not King and this
is where you're totally screwed, Chuck, because YOU
HAVE called HIM, "King of kings and Lord of lords"!!!
Do you deny that?! You know better than to do that!
And the fact is, that if He is "King of Kings", then He
*_MUST_* have a Kingdom and you damn well know it!!!
How can you call Him "King" and then say that He isn't
the King?!? And don't try to hand me that, "He's King
over me" crap, because you don't pick someone and
just call then king over you! They must BE A KING,
for you to do THAT, Chuck! I covered that above!
I believe He does [have a kingdom], and so do you.
Now you're just simply trying to weasel out of
your previous statement! There would have been
NO REASON for you to even make such a claim
as you did, if you believed that He has a Kingdom!
You would NOT have said that it isn't necessary,
if that's not what you were saying!
And we both know that you have stated more than
once, that He does NOT rule over all and yet, you
have called Him "Lord over all"!
As I said, Futurism always ends up contradicting itself
and that's why you have to continually snip what I write
and run away when I keep cornering you with this stuff
and try to attack me and lie about what I'm saying,
after snipping what I said, to try to cover your tracks,
thinking that because you snipped my words, it means
that no one saw my message and that no one can go
back one message and read what you wrote and all
of what i replied to you with!
And as I said, if you did believe that He has a Kingdom,
then you wouldn't be saying that it isn't necessary for
a king to have a kingdom! And you may try to play
word games here and just use "lord", but the fact is,
when speaking of Jesus, there is no such thing as just
a basic "lord", like some schmoe! And you have called
Him "King" and that means that you know He has to
already have a Kingdom and you are just trying to
promote your Dispy (Dispensationalist) doctrine,
that says that He's "lord, but not lord over all and
has no kingdom yet", when you have called Him King
and have said that He is Lord over all!
The difference, and it's a biggy, is that I believe
He has not yet come down from Heaven to take
possession of it, and you do.
Take possession of it?! What?! Why would He have
to come to this planet, to rule it?!
You are just not too bright, Chuckles! You admitted
to me, that the Old Testament states very clearly that
God has always ruled the world. You had to, when
I showed you the passages, even though you didn't
want to! And so where did God do that from, Chucky?
Hint: It wasn't Earth!
"Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool:
What house will ye build me? saith the Lord:
Or what is the place of my rest?" - Acts 7:49
Now since you Dispy's are ignorant of the OT
and think it's all new stuff in the NT, let me
enlighten you and show you that he was simply
quoting Isaiah:
"Thus saith the Lord, The heaven is my throne,
and the earth is my footstool: Where is the house
that ye build unto me? And where is the place of
my rest?" - Isaiah 66:1
And now, let's look at it together with the prior verse,
which destroys your Futurist view, in which you think
people (and said you want to be among them) will be
standing in a temple in the future, praising God for
animal sacrifices, while Christ sits in this temple,
happy that the Jews are spitting in His face by performing
these animal sacrifices, which automatically deny His
"once for all" sacrifice! And pay special attention to
the last verse, which is what applies to you especially,
just like it did to them, when Stephen said it, because
they also wanted that Earthly temple for God to dwell
in, but like them, you're too stiffnecked to get the fact
that God has always ruled from Heaven, which proves
that He doesn't need to "come here and claim it",
as you tried to claim He does, Chucky boy!:
Acts 7:48-51
48) Howbeit the most High dwelleth NOT in temples
made with hands; as saith the prophet,
49) Heaven is my throne, and earth is my footstool:
What house will ye build me? saith the Lord:
Or what is the place of my rest?
50) Hath not My hand made all these things?
51) Ye stiffnecked and uncircumcised in heart and
ears, ye do always resist the Holy Ghost: as your
fathers did, so do ye.
So you want God to reside in a temple that is
a physical building, even given what He said!
And since you say that Jesus is God, you don't
get to say, "But Jesus will"!
And as I said previously, to paste back in what
you snipped:
Hey Chuck, where do you get off calling
Jesus Lord? That would indicate that
He has a Kingdom...
No, it wouldn't. He doesn't have to have
a kingdom to be my Lord. All that need
be for Him to be my Lord is that I submit
to and obey Him.
There's no such thing as someone being lord over
all, when they have no kingdom! And the truth is,
that you call Him the Creator and "Lord over all"
and yet, claim that He isn't Lord over all! And that
makes you a hypocrite and a liar when you say
those things!
Futurism always ends up contradicting itself and
the Futurists deny it, because for them, it has to
be all about them, or the Bible is useless! (:
What you have just done, is make Jesus no more
powerful than say, Abraham, who was called "lord"
by those who worked for him and actually, even
less powerful than Abraham, considering that at
least Abraham had some land and you claim Jesus
doesn't yet! So your "lord" is a "no land owning,
can't control anything here, is lord of nothing on
Earth, nice guy from almost 2,000 years ago".
Gee, I'm sure He appreciates the vote of confidence!
But why would you want to follow someone like that,
who is not even as powerful as Abraham was?!
But thank you for admitting that your "Savior",
according to you, is not Lord and that you claim
that He is only Lord over a certain amount of
people, but not over the creation that they live in!
According to you, He is "Savior", but not really "Lord",
since He has no kingdom!
No thanks! I'm not interested in your brand of "lord"!
My Lord and Savior rules all and has done so, since
He ascended, as Daniel 7:13-14 prophesied and as
Hebrews says happened and Daniel 2:44 said it would
happen before the four kingdoms ended and the four
kingdoms did end! So you worship your "less powerful
than Abraham guy" and I'll worship the Lord Jesus
Christ who rules now and has a Kingdom!
--
Theistic evolutionists are out to please men,
rather than God. They claim to believe in a
virgin birth, people rising from the dead, water
turned into wine and yet, they don't believe that
God created the heaven and the earth in six literal
days, thereby making hypocrites of themselves. Why?
Because man says it isn't so and they would rather
try to please men, instead of choosing to believe
God and stand up for Him. Preachers who claim
theistic evolution are the biggest hypocrites of all
and are in the most danger. Why? Read Isaiah 9:16;
Jeremiah 23:1, 50:6. What do YOU stand for?
"...choose this day whom you will serve. ...as for
me and my house, we will serve the Lord." - Jos 24:15
.
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