*__CONTRADICTION CHALLENGE TO BIBLE WISDOM__*



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Topic: Religions > Bible
User: "Pastor Dave"
Date: 10 Feb 2005 04:44:04 PM
Object: *__CONTRADICTION CHALLENGE TO BIBLE WISDOM__*
On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 21:16:42 GMT, after pondering deep
thoughts, "Bible Wisdom" <Biblewisdom@.com> spake
thusly:

"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:fo0d011omltl77gfatk6c7eon0plbg8gqf@4ax.com...

On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 00:42:52 GMT, after pondering deep
thoughts, Mike Andrade <ma@box.invalid> spake thusly:

Pastor Dave <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in
news:mhna01toh2daihqpch04gvk2e9lvoppcqu@4ax.com:

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 23:43:04 GMT, after pondering deep
thoughts, Mike Andrade <ma@box.invalid> spake thusly:


larry4355@adelphia.net wrote in
news:akla01tkieiaavp7jjgp7e6p417bffr64v@4ax.com:

You believe the bible is fallible, then you in my opinion, can not
be a Christian.


So only inerrantists can be Christians?


How does one affirm the Gospel, by denying it's truth?


Asserting that the Bible contains errors is not equivalent to denying
the truth of the gospel.


An error is not truth. Thus, it is the same thing.
You're trying to play God. You'll be happy to point
out the errors for us I bet, according to you and you
think we should all agree and change the message to
suit your belief.

The fact is, that if there is even one error in the
Bible, even if you claim it's due to humans, that means
that it is all up for question. It also means that God
is incapable of getting His word to us straight.


Then please could you explain in some way the following for us.

First of all, why name yourself "Bible Wisdom", when
you have none? Copy and paste from atheist web sites
does not equate to Biblical wisdom.

(RSV (Revised Standard Version) translation used).

Secondly, I don't discuss anything, using Bibles that
are translated from the corrupt Alexandrian Text.
See end of message for the following...

God creates animals and then man - Gen 1:25-26
God creates man and then the animals - Gen 2:18-19


Arpachshad's son was Shelah - Gen 11:12
Arpachshad's grandson was Shelah - Luke 3:35-36


Noah takes 7 pairs of each type of animal onto the ark - Gen 7:2-3
Noah takes one pair of animal onto the ark - Gen 6:19



Terah's lifespan.
According to Gen 11:26, Terah was 70 when Abraham was born and Abraham was
75 when he left Haran. Therefore he lived 70 years (ie. his age when Abraham
was born) plus 75 years (the age of Abraham when he left Haran - as stated
in Gen 12:4). He did not live beyond this as Acts 7:4 states Terah was dead
when Abraham left Haran. So 70 + 75 = 145 years in total. However, Gen 11:32
states he lived 205 years.



God promises Abraham the land of Canaan to live in - Gen 17:8
God did not allow Abraham to live in the promised land - Acts 7:5, Heb
11:8,9,13



Jacob's offspring in Egypt totalled 70 - Gen 46:26-27, Ex 1:5
Jacob's offspring in Egypt totalled 75 - Acts 7:14
Jacob was buried in a cave in Machpelah's field that was bought from Ephron
the Hittite - Gen 50:13
Jacob was buried in a tomb at Shechem bought from the sons of Hamor - Acts
7:15-16



The Hebrews dwelt in Egypt for 430 years - Ex 12:40
The Hebrews dwelt in Egypt for 400 years - Acts 7:6



God's plague kills 24,000 - Num 25:9
God's plague kills 23,000 - 1 Cor 10:8



The Hebrews' journeying - Mount Hor (where Aaron dies), Zalmonah, Punon -
Num 33:37,38,41,42
The Hebrews' journeying - Beeroth Benejaakan, Moserah (where Aaron dies),
Gudgodah, Jotbathah - Deut 10:6,7



God forbids killing - Ex 20:13
God commands killing - Ex 32:27



Solomon's reign.
Acts 13:16-22 numbers the years from when the Hebrews left Egypt to David
beginning his reign as 40 (Wilderness) + 450 (Judges) + 40 (Saul) = 530
years. According to 1 Chron 29:27, David reigned 40 years, so Solomon became
king (when David died) 530 + 40 years (of David's reign) = 570 years.
However, 1 Kings 6:1 states Solomon's 4th year of rule (when he began the
Temple building) was 480 years after the Hebrews left Egypt, ie. he began
his rule 476 years after the Hebrews left. Therefore there is a
contradiction of (570 - 476) 94 years.



Saul inquired of God, but God did not answer him - 1 Sam 28:6
Saul died because he did not seek guidance from God - 1 Chron 10:13,14



Jesse had eight children - 1 Sam 16:10-13
Jesse had seven children - 1 Chron 2:13-15



David slays Goliath - 1 Sam 17:4,7,50
Elhanan slays Goliath - 2 Sam 21:19



Joram his son, Ahaziah his son, Joash his son, Amaziah his son, Azariah his
son, Jotham his son - 1 Chron 3:11,12
Joram the father of Uzziah, and Uzziah the father of Jotham - Matt 1:8,9



Asa removes the high places - 2 Chron 14:2
Asa did not remove the high places - 1 Kings 15:11-14



Uzzah dies at the threshing-floor of Nacon - 2 Samuel 6:6
Uzzah dies at the threshing-floor of Chidon - 1 Chron 13:9



David takes 1700 horsemen - 2 Sam 8:4
David takes 7000 horsemen - 1 Chron 18:4



David destroys 700 chariots - 2 Sam 10:18
David destroys 7000 chariots - 1 Chron 19:18



Satan incites David to number the people - 1 Chron 21:1
God incites David to number the people - 2 Sam 24:1



Joab's numbering of the army. 1,100,00 soldiers in Israel; 470,000 soldiers
in Judah - 1 Chron 21:5
Joab's numbering of the army. 800,000 soldiers in Israel; 500,000 in Judah -
2 Sam 24:9



David buys the land for the altar from Ornan for 600 shekels of gold - 1
Chron 21:24-25
David buys the land for the altar from Araunah for 50 shekels - 2 Sam 24:24



Solomon had 4,000 stalls and 12,000 horsemen - 2 Chron 9:25
Solomon had 40,000 stalls and 12,000 horsemen - 1 Kings 4:26



The Temple pillars were 18 cubits - 1 Kings 7:15
The Temple pillars were 35 cubits - 2 Chron 3:15



The molten sea held 2000 baths - 1 Kings 7:23,26
The molten sea held over 3000 baths - 2 Chron 4:2,5



The importance of wisdom - Proverbs 4:7
The unimportance of wisdom - 1 Cor 1:19



The joy of wisdom - Proverbs 3:13-15
The misery of wisdom - Ecc 1:18



How the righteous suffer like the wicked - Ecc 9:2, Isaiah 57:1
How the righteous flourish - Psalm 92:12-13



No ills befall the righteous - Proverbs 12:21
How the righteous suffer - Job 12:4,6, Hebrews 11:35-37



The wicked will die prematurely and will suffer - Psalm 55:23, Proverbs
10:27, Job 18:5,11,18,19
The wicked lifespan is long and they enjoy life - Psalm 73:3-5,12, Job
21:7-9



Man is to be holy - Leviticus 11:44, 19:2, 20:7
Only God is holy - Revelation 15:4



Drinking alcohol is acceptable - Deuteronomy 14:26, John 2:7-11, 1 Timothy
5:23
Drinking alcohol is not acceptable - Proverbs 20:1, 23:31-34, Hosea 4:11



Jehoiachin was 8 years old when he began his reign - 2 Chron 36:9
Jehoiachin was 18 years old when he began his reign - 2 Kings 24:8



The captain takes 5 men of the king's council - 2 Kings 25:19
The captain takes 7 men of the king's council - Jeremiah 52:25



Baasha dies and his son Ela begins his reign over Israel - this was in the
26th year of king Asa of Judah - 1 Kings 16:6,8
In the 36th year of Asa's reign, Baasha attacks Judah - 2 Chron 16:1
NB. 2 Chron has Baasha still fighting 10 years after 1 Kings says he died!



The infancy narratives.
According to Luke 2:21-39, Jesus is taken to the Jerusalem Temple eight days
after he is born; the family then go up to Nazareth. In Matt 2:14-23, after
being born the family flee in Egypt and stay there until Herod dies; even on
returning, they avoid Judea and go up to Nazareth.



Jesus began ministry after John the Baptist is imprisoned - Mark 1:14,15,17
Jesus's began ministry whilst John was free and before imprisoned - John
1:28-29, 3:25-30



Jesus baptised - John 3:22
Jesus did not baptise - John 4:2



The exorcism of Legion - being 2 men - Matt 8:28
The exorcism of Legion - being 1 man - Mark 5:1,2



The healing on leaving Jericho was 1 blind man - Mark 10:46,47
The healing on leaving Jericho was 2 blind men - Matt 20:29,30



No one has ascended into heaven before Jesus - John 3:13
Elijah ascended into heaven - 2 Kings 2:11



Respect for parents taught - Exodus 20:12, Leviticus 19:3, Deuteronomy 5:16,
Ephesians 6:1-2
Disrespect and rejection of parents taught - Matt 8:21- 22, 10:37, 19:29,
23:9, Luke 12:51,53, 14:26



People choose not to come to Jesus - John 5:40
People can only come to Jesus if God wills it - John 6:44



Jesus judges - John 5:22,27, 9:39, 2 Corinthians 5:10
Jesus does not judge - John 8:15, 12:47



Christians to hate their brothers - - Luke 14:26
Whoever hates their brother cannot have eternal life - 1 John 3:15



Jesus refuses to give signs - Matt 12:38,39, Mark 8:12, Luke 11:29
Jesus did give signs - John 3:2, 20:30, Acts 2:22



Man judged/saved by faith - John 3:15,16,36, 5:24, 20:31, Acts 2:21,
16:30,31, Rom 1:17, 5:1,9,11,18, 10:9, Gal 2:16, Phil 3:9, Eph 2:8,9
Man judged/saved by works and lifestyle - Psalm 62:12, Proverbs 24:12, Matt
7:21, 16:27, 19:16,17, 25:31- 46, Luke 14;13-14, John 5:29, Acts 10:35, Rom
2:6,7,9,10, 1 Cor 3:8



One of the disciples was lost - John 17:12
None of the disciple were lost - John 18:9



Jesus refers to David eating the consecrated bread in the time of Abithar -
Mark 2:25,26
In fact David ate the consecrated bread in the time of Ahimelech - 1 Sam
21:1-6



Disciples sent out not to wear sandals - Matt 10:9,10
Disciples sent out to wear sandals - Mark 6:8,9



No man can retain the spirit after death - Eccles 8:8
Peter restores spirit of Tabitha after death - Acts 9:37,40



Believers not to worry about providing for family - Luke 14:26,33, 18:29,30
Believers must provide for family - 1 Timothy 5:8



Jesus did not bear witness to himself - John 5:31
Jesus did bear witness to himself - John 8:14,18



The law/commandments to remain for ever - Matt 5:17-19, Luke 16:17
The law has ended - Romans 7:4, Eph 2:15, Col 2:14



Simon and Andrew's home was in Capernaum - Mark 1:21,29
Simon and Andrew's home was in the same place as Philip's - Bethsaida - John
1:44



God has given all things into Jesus' hands - John 3:35
God has not given all things into Jesus' hands - Matt 20:23, John 5:19



Everyone sins - 2 Chronicles 6:36, Ecclesiastes 7:20, Rom 3:10,12,23
Believers do not sin - 1 John 3:6,9, 5:18



The anointing and entry into Jerusalem.
Matt and Mark detail how Jesus rode into Jerusalem in Matt 20:1-13, Mark
11:1-11. It was after this that he was anointed at Bethany - Matt 26:6-16,
Mark 14:3- 11. But in John he is anointed (12:1-8) and it is after this that
he rides into Jerusalem (12:12-15).



The Last Supper.
The Synoptics make it clear this was the Passover meal - Matt 26:19, Mark
14:16, Luke 22:13. However in John, the meal was held on the day before the
Passover - 13:29, and states that even after the meal the Passover had still
not begun - 18:28. Moreover, even after the trial, it was the Preparation
day for the Passover - 19:31



Peter denies Jesus before the ***** crows - Luke 22:34, John 12:38
Peter denies Jesus before the ***** crows twice - Mark 14:30, 14:72



Peter is warned he will deny Jesus after the last supper and having left the
upper room - Matt 26:20-34, Mark 14:17-30
Peter is warned he will deny Jesus during the last supper before leaving the
upper room - Luke 22:33-39, John 13:37-38/ 18:1



Jesus' trial before the sanhedrin was at night and in morning he was taken
to Pilate - Matt 26:57-68, 27:1-2
Jesus' trial before the sanhedrin and being taken to Pilate was in the
morning - Luke 22:66-71, 23:1



Simon of Cyrene carries Jesus' cross - Matt 27:32
Jesus carries his cross - John 19:17,18



Jesus was physically descended from David - Romans 1:1- 3.
The genealogies in Matt 1:1-16 and Luke 3:23-38 both attempt to link Jesus
with Joseph to give Jesus a place in the Davidic line (which was necessary
for messiahship). However, if virgin born, Joseph would have had nothing to
do with the conception and any physical/human descent would be through Mary:
Jesus' only contact with humanity if virgin born. However, Luke 1:36 says
Mary was related to Elizabeth who was of the Aaronic line (Luke 1:5), not
the Davidic line. Therefore, if virgin born, Jesus did not have Davidic
descent (a prerequisite for messiah- ship).



Both robbers revile Jesus - Matt 27:44
Only one robber reviles Jesus and the other believes - Luke 23:41-43



Jesus tells the believing robber he will be with him in paradise that day -
Luke 23:43
Jesus was in the grave following his death and did not ascend to heaven -
Acts 2:24,31, John 20:17



God forsakes Jesus - Mark 15:34
Jesus is inseparable from God - John 10:30, 14:10, 16:32



The confirmation Jesus is dead.
In Mark 15:43-45, Joseph of Arimathea asks Pilate for Jesus' body, and
Pilate is unaware of whether he is dead; only after sending a centurion and
receiving this confirmation does he allow Joseph to take the body. However
in John 19:31-33,38, Pilate actually authorises the leg-breaking to ensure
they have all died and then authorises Joseph to remove the body. NB. Mark
15:42 states it was evening, ie. the sabbath had already begun (beginning at
sundown) when Joseph asks for the body. However, burial was not allowed on
the sabbath, showing the fictitiousness of the story.



The Resurrection of Jesus
Who went to the tomb?
Matt - 2 Marys
Mark - 2 Marys and Salome
Luke - at least 5 women
John - Mary Magdalene
What was seen?
Matt - Earthquake with angel sitting outside on the recently-moved stone
Mark - Stone already moved and a young man sitting inside
Luke - Stone already moved with two men standing inside
John - Stone moved. No one seen on 1st visit, but two angels sitting inside
after two earlier visits.
When did the woman/women leave to go to the tomb?
Matt - Towards dawn
Mark - Very early
Luke - At early dawn
John - Still dark (NB. John states it was still dark when Mary arrived at
the tomb).
What did man/men/angel/angels say?
Matt - Jesus was risen and disciples to go to Galilee
Mark - As Matt
Luke - Jesus had risen
John - Asks why Mary is crying.
What do the women/woman do next?
Matt - They run away but meet Jesus who repeats angel's instruction
Mark - They flee and say nothing to anyone. This obviously contradicts the
other three in which the women do go and tell the disciples (original Mark
ended at 16:7)
Luke - They go and tell disciples
John - Mary meets Jesus and they talk.
What is first conversation with the risen Jesus?
Matt - Women on way from tomb
Luke - The two disciples on road to Emmaus
John - Mary Magdalene.
What was the time between the resurrection and the ascension?
Matt - At least the time to reach Galilee
Luke - Clearly one day only (see 24:13,33,36,50 - it is made very clear that
Jesus rose, made all his appearances and ascended back to heaven on the same
day)
John - At least a week accepting John 20 as the original end to the Gospel,
but with the John 21 appendix the period was even longer as this has a
Galilean appearance
Acts - 40 days.

An attempt to reconcile John's visit of just Mary Magdalene whilst still
dark with the Synoptics where there are several women and it is daytime, is
by saying John's was an earlier one, i.e. the one in the Synoptics was a
second one. However this cannot be so as John has Mary Magdalene seeing the
empty tomb (20:1) and in the Synoptics when the women go to the tomb they
ask about who would roll the stone away (Mark 16:3). Mary Magdalene was with
them (Mark 16:1) and if she had already been to the tomb, she would have
seen the stone moved away and the question would be irrelevant.
Furthermore, Luke makes any appearance at, or journey to Galilee absolutely
impossible as it has everything happening in the area of Jerusalem with the
disciples being told to stay there until Pentecost, and the conclusion being
Jesus' ascension from nearby Bethany. This is made clear - in Luke the first
appearance is to the two travelling to Emmaus (10 miles West of Jerusalem)
and 24:13 states this was "that very day"; the two then go "that same hour"
to the eleven in Jerusalem (24:33); Jesus then appears whilst they are still
explaning what they had seen (24:36). Jesus then tells them to stay in
Jerusalem until Pentecost (24:49).
As Luke 24:51 has the ascension on the same day as the resurrection this
prevents any Galilean appearances by Jesus to the eleven as in Matt and
John.
Luke's account makes nonsense of Matt having Jesus tell the women to
instruct the disciples to go up to Galilee (Matt 28:10) if he was going to
see them himself later that day (as in Luke and John), and furthermore see
them in Jerusalem. Also, Luke makes it clear that the eleven were told to
stay in Jerusalem from the day of the resurrection to Pentecost, but Matt
has them travelling up to Galilee (28:16) as does John (21:1ff). Important
to note is Mark 16:7, ie. that the women 'said nothing to anyone' - all
three Gospels contradict this by saying that they told the disciples.
Luke also has Jesus appearing to "the eleven" on the same day as the
resurrection (24:33-36), but John states Thomas was missing on this
appearance and it was a week later that Jesus appeared to all eleven - with
Thomas then being present (20:24,26).

Note: 1 Cor 15:3-8 lists the resurrection appearances and contradicts the
above.



The chronology of Paul's life.
Acts
(1)Paul converted on the way to Damascus (9:1-8).
(2)He goes to Ananias in Damascus and stays there 'several days' (9:20).
(3)After 'some time'*, Paul goes to Jerusalem (9:23,26) and meets the
apostles there (9:27).
(4)Paul preaches in Jerusalem, but due to threats to kill him, he is sent to
Tarsus (9:30).
(5)Relief to Jerusalem and Judea taken by Paul & Barnabas (2nd visit)
(11:30)
(6)Paul goes to Jerusalem (3rd time) (12:25)
(7)Paul goes to Jerusalem (3rd or 4th time) (15:1ff).

Galatians.
(1)Paul is converted (1:16).
(2)He does not go to Jerusalem, but to Arabia and then Damascus (1:17)
(3)After 3 years, Paul goes to Jerusalem, meeting only Cephas and James
there (1:18-19) staying only 15 days.
(4)He then goes to the regions of Syria and Cilicia (1:21).
(5)14 years later, Paul goes to Jerusalem with Barnabas and Titus (2:1).
(6)Paul confronts Cephas at Antioch (2:11).
(7)No further information.
The 'some time' in Acts 9:19 is not clear as to how long this was; different
translations render this 'some time passed' (Jerusalem), 'after a number of
days' (Moffatt); the literal Greek is "'many' with the view of being
sufficient"; however it is rendered, it is difficult to reconcile this with
the three years of Gal 1:18.
*It is not clear whether 12:25 is a return to Jerusalem, or a return to
Antioch from Jerusalem; if the former, and the Acts 15 visit is the Gal
2:1-10 one, then in Acts it would be the fourth visit, whilst Paul states it
was only the second.
Paul's method of counting in Gal. is not absolutely clear, ie. whether his
14 years in Gal 2:1 is 14 years after his starting point in Gal (ie. his
conversion) or 14 years after the first Jerusalem visit 3 years after his
conversion which he had mentioned immediately beforehand (ie. a total of 17
years after his conversion).
Numerous others problems arise when trying to reconcile the two accounts,
e.g. Acts has Paul in Jerusalem and Judea in his early life (21:17 then
22:3) and as a persecutor of the church there (7:58, 9:1-2,13,21, 26:10)
which makes Paul's comment that (Gal 1:22) he was not known by sight by the
churches in Judea even after his time in Jerusalem, Syria and Cilicia (1:17-
21) appear impossible. Furthermore when Paul has a dispute with Peter at
Antioch about Gentile fellowship in Gal 2, why does he not remind him of
what was agreed at the Acts 15 conference on this very subject ?



Abraham was justified by faith - Rom 4:1-5
Abraham was justified by works - James 2:22-24



Man does not die for his ancestors' sin - Deut 24:16, 2 Kings 14:6, Ezek
18:20
Man does die for his ancestors' sin - Ex 20:5, 34:6-7, 2 Sam 12:13-18, Isa
14:21, Rom 5:12,19, 1 Cor 15:22



Elijah and Moses appear many centuries after they died - Mark 9:2-4
Only God is immortal - 1 Tim 6:15-16



Jesus to be buried for three days and nights - Matt 12:40
Jesus buried for one day and two nights - Mark 15:42,43, John 20:1 (These
texts show the burial did not take place until Friday night and the tomb was
empty before Sunday morning). Jesus was therefore not in the tomb for "three
days and three nights" - whether present-day or Jewish time-reckoning is
used.



Jesus was the first person to rise from the dead - Acts 26:23, Rev 1:5
Jesus was not the first person to rise from the dead - 2 Kings 4:32,35, Luke
7:12-15, Matt 9:18,25, 11:5, 27:52, John 11:44



The Holy Spirit given on Easter Sunday - John 20:19,22
The Holy Spirit given at Pentecost - Acts 2:1-4



Jesus warns disciples he is to leave them - John 16:5,7,28
Jesus assures disciples he will always be with them - Matt 28:20



The Holy Spirit not given until Jesus' death - John 7:39
The Holy Spirit given before Jesus' birth - Luke 1:41,67



Judas dies by hanging himself - Matt 27:5-7
Judas dies by swelling up - Acts 1:18



Women buy anointing spices for Jesus after the sabbath - Mark 16:1
Women buy anointing spices for Jesus before the sabbath - Luke 23:56



Paul's vision.
Acts 9:7 states the men with Paul STOOD speechless, HEARING the voice but
NOT SEEING anyone.
Acts 22:9 states they did NOT HEAR the voice.
Acts 26:14 states they all FELL to the ground and DID HEAR the voice.



God is impartial towards people - Acts 10:34, Rom 2:11, Gal 2:8, Eph 6:9
God is partial towards people - Rom 8:29-30, 9:11-13, Matt 10:5-6, 15:22-25,
Luke 1:30


Those without the law, will perish without it - Rom 2:12
Where there is no law, there can be no transgression - Rom 4:15


Salvation only available to a few who have been chosen - Matt 7:14, 22:14,
Luke 12:32, 13:24, John 6:37,65, 15:16,19, Rom 8:29, 9:11-23, Eph 1:4,
Salvation available to those who want it - Matt 7:7,8, 11:28, John 3:16,
5:40, 7:37, Acts 2:21, Rev 3:20
NB. Prov 16:4 states God actually made the unsaved for 'the day of trouble'
(ie. damnation). In contrast to texts that state Jesus died for the elect/a
small number, there are others that confirm, or at least suggest everyone
will be saved by Christ - John 1:29, 4:42, 1 Cor 15:29, Heb 2:9, 1 John
4:14.



Satan is free to act as he pleases - Job 1:6-7, 2:1-2, Zech 3;1, Matt 4:1, 1
Pet 5:8
The angels who rebelled against God are chained up - Jude 6



James and John ask Jesus for special places in the kingdom - Mark 10:35-37
It is the mother of James and John who asks Jesus for special places for
them - Matt 20:21-22



No one born of God sins - 1 John 3:9
Everyone sins - Rom 3:23, 1 John 1:8



No one is righteous - Rom 3:10
There are righteous - James 5:16



The sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unforgiveable - Matt 12:32,
Mark 3:29
God forgives all sins - 1 John 1:7



Love your enemies - Matt 5:44
Refuse to greet your enemies - 2 John 10: enemies are cursed by Paul - Gal
1:9: Paul asks that his enemies mutilate themselves - Gal 5:12



Those who go into the grave will never arise - Job 7:7,9, 14:10,12
Those who go into the grave will arise - John 5:28-29, 11:24, 1 Cor
15:12-18,20-23,52, Rev 20:4



The dead are unconscious - Job 14:12, Ecc 9:5, Dan 12:2
The dead are conscious - Mark 9:4, Luke 16:22-23, Rev 6:9-10



The earth will exist for ever - Ecc 1:4
The earth will be destroyed - 2 Pet 3:10



No one has ever seen God - Ex 33:17,20, John 1:18, 1 Tim 6:15-16
People have seen God - Gen 32:30, Ex 24:9-10, 33:11,21- 23, Isa 6:5, Deut
5:24, Amos 9:1



God is not responsible for confusion - 1 Cor 14:33
God is responsible for confusion - Isa 45:7



All will swear to God - Isa 45:22-23
Jesus forbids swearing - Matt 5:34



God can do anything - Mark 10:27, Luke 1:37
God is limited in what he can do - Judges 1:19, Mark 6:5-6



God wants everyone to be saved - 1 Tim 2:3-4, 2 Pet 3:9
God does not want everyone to be saved - Prov 16:4, Mark 4:11-12, Rom 9:18,
2 Thess 2:11



The returnees from Babylonian exile in 537/536 BCE.
42,360 in Ezra 2:64, but 9,818 in Ezra 2:3-60 and 31,089 in Nehemiah 7:7-65.



God is not angry for long - Psa 30:5, 103:9, Micah 7:18
God is angry for a long time - Num 32:13, Rev 14:11, 20:10



God never lies and hates lying - Ex 23:1, Num 23:19, Prov 12:22, Titus 1:2
God himself lies - 1 Kings 22:23, 2 Chron 18:22, 2 Thess 2:11



God does not repent (ie. regret an action/change his mind) - Num 23:19, 1
Sam 15:29, Mal 3:6
God does repent (ie. regret an action/change his mind) - Gen 6:6-7, Ex
32:14, 1 Sam 15:35, 2 Sam 24:16, 1 Chron 21:15, Jer 18:8,10, 26:3,13,19,
42:10, Ezek 24:14, Joel 2:13, Amos 7:3, Jonah 3:10



The earth has no foundation - Job 26:7
The earth does have foundations - 1 Sam 2:8, Psa 104:5



God feeds and cares for all life - Psa 145:15-16
God does not feed and care for all life - Deut 28:48, Isa 5:13, 8:21, 50:2



God is warlike - Ex 15:3, Psa 24:8, Rev 19:11,13
Man should be peaceful as God is - Matt 5:9, John 14:27, Rom 15:33, 2 Thess
3:16



Graven images not to be made - Ex 20:4
Graven images are to be made - Ex 25:18



The earth is God/Jesus' - Psa 24:1, 1 Cor 10:26, Rev 1:5
The earth is the devil's - John 12:31, 2 Cor 4:4



God dwells in light - Psa 104:1,2, 1 Tim 6:15-16, 1 John 1:5
God dwells in darkness - 1 Kings 8:12, 2 Chron 6:1, Psa 18:11, Psa 97:1-2



Jesus is God - John 1:1, John 20:28
Jesus is inferior/subordinate to God - John 14:28, 1 Cor 11:3, 15:28



The Synoptics have Jesus clearing the Temple at the end of his ministry
(Mark 11:15-17 & par) but John has this at the very beginning (2:13-16).
Also, John has Jesus travelling back and forth between Galilee and Jerusalem
but the synoptics have him starting in Galilee & making the one journey
south to Jerusalem ending in his death.



God is gracious, loving, merciful, good, forgiving, and perfect - Ex 34:6,
Deut 32:4, 2 Sam 22:31, Psa 86:5, 100:5, 106:1, 111:4,7, 136:1, 145:8-9, Lam
3:33, Joel 2:13, Hab 1:12-13, Mark 10:18, 1 John 4:8,16
God slaughters, is vengeful, does evil, defiles, destroys and creates woes -
Ex 32:14, Num 31:1-18, Deut 2:30,34, 7:2,16, 20:10-20, 1 Sam 6:19, Job
42:11, Isa 45:7, Jer 18:5,8,11, 26:3,13,19, 42:10-11, Lam 3:38, Ezek
6:12-13, 20:25-26, Amos 3:6, Nahum 1:2, Jonah 3:10



God sees everything and is omnipresent - Psa 11:4, Prov 15:3, Job 34:21, Jer
16:17, 23:24, Heb 4:13
God does not see everything and is not omnipresent - Gen 3:9-10, 11:5,
18:20-21, Ex 3:8, 19:11, 18,20, Micah 1:3



God did not dwell in the house (Temple) Solomon built - Acts 7:48
God did dwell in the house (Temple) that Solomon built - 1 Kings 8:13



God is always near - Psa 46:1, 145:14, 18-19, James 4:8
God is not always near - 1 Sam 28:6, Psa 10:1, 22:1,2, Matt 27:46



God creates all life out of the waters - Gen 1:20-21
God creates all life out of the earth - Gen 2:19



The doers of the law will be justified - Rom 2:13
No one is justified by the law - Rom 3:20



Disciples will be persecuted and martyred - Luke 21:16, Acts 7:59-60, 8:1,
Rev 6:9
Disciples will not be harmed - Luke 21:18



Christians to obey authorities - Rom 13;1, 1 Pet 2:13- 14
Christians to obey God rather than authorities - Acts 5:29



Disciples given power to cure all ills - Matt 10:1, Luke 9:1
Disciples could not cure all ills - Matt 17:18-20



Centurion goes to Jesus for his servant to be healed - Matt 8:5-13
Centurion sends elders to Jesus to ask for his servant to be healed - Luke
7:1-10



God's word and law abides for ever - Matt 5:18, 1 Pet 1:25
God's word and law has been cancelled - Eph 2:15, Col 2:14



Governors are God's ministers for the good and protect the innocent - Rom
13:1,3, 1 Pet 2:13-14
The Governor Pontius Pilate has Jesus crucified - Mark 15:15, Luke
23:11,24,25, John 19:1,6



Christ was raised a spirit being - 1 Cor 15:44-45, 1 Pet 3:18
Christ was physically raised - Luke 24:39,42-43, John 20:26-27



The coming kingdom of God will be visible - Daniel 2:44
The coming kingdom of God will not be visible - Luke 17:20-21



God is spirit - John 4:24
God has feet - Psa 18:9, arms - Jer 27:5, wings - Psa 36:7, eyes - Deut
11:12, Psa 34:15, a mouth - Isa 1:20, Deut 8:3, ears - 2 Chron 6:40, a
nose - Ex 15:8, a heart - Gen 6:6, legs - Gen 3:8



The Bible teaches forgiveness - Matt 6:14-15, Rom 12:17-19, Eph 4:32, Col
3:13
The Bible teaches punishment and vengeance - Gen 9:6, Ex 21:23-25,29, Lev
24;16,23



God is one - Deut 6:4
God is plural - Gen 1:26, 11:6,7, Isa 6:8



Gen 6:4 refers to a race called the Nephilim. Later in Gen 7:11-24 there is
the account of the Flood in which "every living thing" was killed (7:23)
except Noah and his family: however, in Num 13:33 the Nephilim still exist.



The families of Japheth, Ham and Shem all have their own languages - Gen
10:5,20,31
There is only one language over the whole earth - Gen 11:1



It is the Midianites who sell Joseph to Potiphar - Gen 37:36
it is the Ishmaelites who sell Joseph to Potiphar - Gen 39:1



The Levites' service to be from age 30 to 50 - Num 3:3,23,30,35,39,43,47
The Levites' service to be from age 25 to 50 - Num 8:23



Sisera killed whilst asleep - Jud 4:20-21
Sisera killed whilst standing and drinking milk - Jud 5:25-27



God's attributes are unknowable - Job 11:7-9
God's attributes are knowable - Rom 1:20



Beersheba given its name by Abraham - Gen 21:31-33
Beersheba given its name by Isaac - Gen 26:32-33



Saul killed by an Amalekite - 2 Sam 1:5-10
Saul killed by Philistines - 2 Sam 21:22



There were 3300 chief officers on Temple building - 1 Kings 5:16
There were 3600 chief officers on Temple building - 2 Chron 2:18



There were 550 who had charge of the people - 1 Kings 9:23
There were 250 who had charge of the people - 2 Chron 8:10



Jehoshaphat removed the high places - 2 Chron 17:1,6
Jehoshaphat did not remove the high places - 2 Chron 20:31,33



Zedekiah was Jehoiachin's brother - 2 Chron 36:9-10
Zedekiah was Jehoiachin's uncle - 2 Kings 24:17



The sundial to go back 10 degrees as a sign that God would heal Hezekiah's
boil - 2 Kings 20:7-11
The sundial to go back 10 degrees as a sign God would defend the city
against the Assyrians -Isa 38:4-8



The rich cannot enter heaven; the kingdom of God is for the poor - Luke
6:20, Matt 19:24, James 5:1
God rewards by bestowing wealth and disciples can be rich - Job 42:10, Matt
27:57



Satan entered Judas at the last supper - John 13:27
Satan entered Judas before the last supper - Luke 22:1-3



Food offered to idols should be avoided - Acts 15:29
It is of no importance if food offered to idols is eaten - 1 Cor 8:1,4,7,8



It was those who accused Jesus and were responsible for his death who buried
him - Acts 13:27-29
It was Joseph of Arimathea, a disciple, who buried Jesus - Matt 27:59-60



Christ is the only master - Matt 23:10
Employers are masters - Eph 6:5,9



There were six generations inclusive between Joram and Jotham - 1 Chron
3:11-12
There were three generations inclusive between Joram and Jotham - Matt 1:8-9



Jesus' home was at Capernaum - Mark 1:9,24, 2:1
Jesus' home was in Judea - John 4:43-45
NB. In John, Jesus leaves Jerusalem in Judea and goes to Galilee because "a
prophet has no honour in his own country" - therefore Judea must have been
his home country - contradicting Mark.



Believers will be deceived into leaving the faith - 1 Tim 4:1, Heb 6:4-6,
Gal 3:1, Rev 2:5
God will protect believers from being led astray - Psa 31:23, 37:28,32,33,
John 10:27-29



Jesus never changes - Heb 13:8
Jesus does change - he dwelt with the Father (John 17:5), was born an infant
with human weaknesses (Luke 2:7,52), became separated from God (Matt 27:46),
then died (Matt 27:50), was then in Hades (Acts 2:31), was then raised from
the dead in a glorified body (1 Cor 15:45) and ascended into heaven where he
mediates (1 John 2:1, 1 Tim 2:5)



Moses was inarticulate - Ex 4:10
Moses was articulate - Acts 7:22



Only God is to be called 'father' - Matt 23:9
Various people can be called 'father' - 1 Cor 10:1, Eph 6:1-4, 1 John
2:13-14, Matt 15:4



Jesus prayed to God to be saved from death, and he was heard - Heb 5:7
Jesus prayed to God to be saved from death and was not heard (ie. he was
executed the next day) - Luke 22:41,42,44,47,54, 23:33



Prepare your defence if challenged for your faith - 1 Pet 3:15
Don't bother beforehand about what is to be said if challenged for your
faith - Mark 13:11



God instructs man to live on vegetarian diet - Gen 1:29-30
Any food can be eaten - Gen 9:3, Acts 10:12-13, Rom 14:2



Martyred believers cry out for vengeance - Rev 6:9-10
Believers should love/forgive their enemies - Matt 5:44, 6:15,18:32-35, Luke
6:27-28



In Luke 10:38-42, Mary and Martha's home is between Samaria (mentioned in
9:57) and Jericho (mentioned in 18:35). It is after leaving Jericho (that
was AFTER where they lived) that Jesus reaches Bethany (19:29). However,
according to John (11:18-20, 12:1-3), their home was in Bethany.



It is wrong to judge others - Matt 7:1, Luke 6:37, Rom 2:1, 14:10
Others can be judged - Matt 23:13-33, John 8:44, Rom 1:27,29-32



At the feeding of the 5000, 200 denarii would have fed the crowd - Mark 6:37
At the feeding of the 5000, 200 denarii would not have fed the crowd - John
6:7



God tells Zedekiah he will be captured but die peacefully - Jer 34:2-5
Zedekiah is capture, has his eyes taken out and is imprisoned to the day he
dies - Jer 52:10-11



Jesus refuses to disclose who he is, or allow others to do this - Matt
12:15-16, 16:16-17,20, Mark 3:11-12, 8:29-30, Luke 9:20-21
Jesus tells the Samaritans (John 4:25-26), the Jews (John 5:39, 8:42,58,
10:24-25,30), the crowds (John 6:40), and others (John 9:35-38), who he is

The Gospel not to be taken to the Samaritans - Matt 10:5-6
The Gospel taken to the Samaritans - John 4:4-41, Acts 8:5,14,15,25

Women are to be obedient and submissive to men - 1 Cor 11:3,7-9, 14:33-35,
Eph 5:22-24, 1 Tim 2:11-15, Titus 2:4-5, 1 Pet 3:21
There are no sexes in Christ: both are "one" - Gal 3:28

Let others see your good works - Matt 5:16
Do not let others see your good works - Matt 6:1,4

Stephen says the Jews persecuted the prophets and killed those who foretold
Christ's coming - Acts 7:52.

Moses was a prophet who foretold Christ's coming (e.g. Acts 7:37) but was
not killed - Deut 34:5,8; David was also a prophet (Acts 2:25,30), but he
also died naturally.

What you have done here, has nothing to do with seeking
answers. You copy and pasted, probably from some
atheist web site that did no more research than you
did, which consisted of copy and paste from another
atheist web site.
You then post a large list, in a dishonest attempt to
intimidate someone from answering and wish to try to
claim some false victory, if they don't spend hours or
days, researching and answering each and every one.
You will then further reveal your dishonesty, because
should they do exactly that and refute each and every
point, instead of acknowledging that you were wrong and
should have studied the matters involved, instead of
just using copy and paste, you will instead, post
another list and will do so again and again. And then
eventually, when you run out of material, you will fade
away and run and hide.
What will happen after that folks? He'll wait a while
and then start all over again, pretending that no one
refuted a thing and he will accuse the other person of
running away, just like the liar that he is.
The fact is, I have repeatedly issued a challenge to
people like you and probably you at one time and you
always, always run away. Why? Because I post rules
that are fair to both sides, which must be agreed to
before the debate can begin and one of those rules is
that you must type just as much as I have to, to
support your claim that it is a contradiction. You
have to actually debate the issue for each one that you
posted and we all know that liars like you can't have
that, because all you have, is atheist web links to
copy and paste from. You may claim it's your web site
as some do, but in reality, you took the information
from atheist web sites. You also don't like the
stakes, since I only enter the debate with high stakes.
So if you want to debate the issue, I am issuing a
challenge right here and now. There will be rules
followed. And as for the stakes, they are that one of
us must cease, for ever, in all news groups. If you
win, I can never again call the Bible inerrant. If I
win, you can never again claim that there is even one
single contradiction in the Bible. Don't worry, both
sides will be allowed one faux pas.
If you wish to continue, let me know and I'll post some
rules that we can discuss before continuing. I have
placed this challenge in the seven most popular
Christian news groups, as I see them to be anyway
(maybe you have a suggestion). We can discuss the
rules in this new thread, so that all can see that we
are in agreement on the rules. The messages will
continue to be posted to the seven most popular
Christian groups. Remember now, this is a challenge in
which the stakes are forever. Loser never stops
paying. Are you ready for that? Or are you scared?
And btw, I expect honesty and since you posted a
massive list, I will pick seven of them, the Bible's
"perfect" number (fitting, I thought) and I get to pick
them, since you obviously have a problem narrowing
things down and posted about 100. :)
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditations." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/solution.html
.

User: "The_Sage"

Title: Re: *__CONTRADICTION CHALLENGE TO BIBLE WISDOM__* 10 Feb 2005 05:27:32 PM

Reply to article by: Pastor Dave <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com>
Date written: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 22:44:04 GMT
MsgID:<9ton01dh8sff42f8dqtk3vf7bj276fmq78@4ax.com>

Then please could you explain in some way the following for us.

First of all, why name yourself "Bible Wisdom", when
you have none? Copy and paste from atheist web sites
does not equate to Biblical wisdom.

Well that explains why you don't call yourself "Bible Wisdom".

(RSV (Revised Standard Version) translation used).

Secondly, I don't discuss anything, using Bibles that
are translated from the corrupt Alexandrian Text.

You don't appear to try and discuss anything at all, regardless of the source.
If you have yet another version of the Bible that will eliminate two or three of
the contradictions pointed out below by the original poster, I want to see it.
Any other response for not providing your "pure non-Alexandrain text" will be
considered a cop out and evidence that you are all talk and no facts. In other
words, a complete and total liar.
Jacob's offspring in Egypt totalled 70 - Gen 46:26-27, Ex 1:5
Jacob's offspring in Egypt totalled 75 - Acts 7:14
Jacob was buried in a cave in Machpelah's field that was bought from Ephron
the Hittite - Gen 50:13
Jacob was buried in a tomb at Shechem bought from the sons of Hamor - Acts
7:15-16
The Hebrews dwelt in Egypt for 430 years - Ex 12:40
The Hebrews dwelt in Egypt for 400 years - Acts 7:6
God's plague kills 24,000 - Num 25:9
God's plague kills 23,000 - 1 Cor 10:8

The fact is, I have repeatedly issued a challenge to
people like you and probably you at one time and you
always, always run away. Why? Because I post rules
that are fair to both sides, which must be agreed to
before the debate can begin and one of those rules is
that you must type just as much as I have to, to
support your claim that it is a contradiction. You
have to actually debate the issue for each one that you
posted and we all know that liars like you can't have
that, because all you have, is atheist web links to
copy and paste from. You may claim it's your web site
as some do, but in reality, you took the information
from atheist web sites. You also don't like the
stakes, since I only enter the debate with high stakes.

Nonsense. You cannot prove that reason is why people like the one you are
responding to "always run away" from your so-called challenges.

So if you want to debate the issue, I am issuing a
challenge right here and now. There will be rules
followed. And as for the stakes, they are that one of
us must cease, for ever, in all news groups. If you
win, I can never again call the Bible inerrant. If I
win, you can never again claim that there is even one
single contradiction in the Bible. Don't worry, both
sides will be allowed one faux pas.

Unacceptable. If you lose, you will forever call the Bible a contradictory
jumble of storytales. If you win the loser should become a Christian.

If you wish to continue, let me know and I'll post some
rules that we can discuss before continuing.

Since you claim to have already posted the rules before, all you need to do is
cite which post you posted the rules in and we will look them up there.

I have
placed this challenge in the seven most popular
Christian news groups, as I see them to be anyway
(maybe you have a suggestion). We can discuss the
rules in this new thread, so that all can see that we
are in agreement on the rules. The messages will
continue to be posted to the seven most popular
Christian groups. Remember now, this is a challenge in
which the stakes are forever. Loser never stops
paying. Are you ready for that? Or are you scared?

Scared of what?

And btw, I expect honesty and since you posted a
massive list, I will pick seven of them, the Bible's
"perfect" number (fitting, I thought) and I get to pick
them, since you obviously have a problem narrowing
things down and posted about 100. :)

Unacceptable. You pick three contradictions of your choosing and your opponent
should pick three contradictions of their choosing. Afterall, all it takes is
two contradictions in a row (not counting the one "free" faux pas) to prove the
Bible is one way or the other.
The Sage
=============================================================
My Home Page : http://members.cox.net/the.sage
"The men that American people admire most extravagantly are
most daring liars; the men they detest the most violently are
those who try to tell them the truth" -- H. L. Mencken
=============================================================
.
User: "Pastor Dave"

Title: Re: *__CONTRADICTION CHALLENGE TO BIBLE WISDOM__* 10 Feb 2005 07:52:39 PM
On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 16:27:32 -0700, after pondering
deep thoughts, The_Sage <The_Sage@msn.com> spake
thusly:
And this folks, is where they assume they get to set
the rules, all the while accusing you of being guilty
of that. <chuckle>
This is where this idiot tries to sneak into the
debate, without agreeing to rules and then he'll
pretend that I ran away. What an buffoon!
You sir, are a moron and I don't have time to waste on
you. Had you been serious, then I would have engaged
you. As it stands now, you're an idiot.

Reply to article by: Pastor Dave <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com>
Date written: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 22:44:04 GMT
MsgID:<9ton01dh8sff42f8dqtk3vf7bj276fmq78@4ax.com>


Then please could you explain in some way the following for us.


First of all, why name yourself "Bible Wisdom", when
you have none? Copy and paste from atheist web sites
does not equate to Biblical wisdom.


Well that explains why you don't call yourself "Bible Wisdom".

(RSV (Revised Standard Version) translation used).


Secondly, I don't discuss anything, using Bibles that
are translated from the corrupt Alexandrian Text.


You don't appear to try and discuss anything at all, regardless of the source.
If you have yet another version of the Bible that will eliminate two or three of
the contradictions pointed out below by the original poster, I want to see it.
Any other response for not providing your "pure non-Alexandrain text" will be
considered a cop out and evidence that you are all talk and no facts. In other
words, a complete and total liar.

Jacob's offspring in Egypt totalled 70 - Gen 46:26-27, Ex 1:5
Jacob's offspring in Egypt totalled 75 - Acts 7:14

Jacob was buried in a cave in Machpelah's field that was bought from Ephron
the Hittite - Gen 50:13
Jacob was buried in a tomb at Shechem bought from the sons of Hamor - Acts
7:15-16

The Hebrews dwelt in Egypt for 430 years - Ex 12:40
The Hebrews dwelt in Egypt for 400 years - Acts 7:6

God's plague kills 24,000 - Num 25:9
God's plague kills 23,000 - 1 Cor 10:8

The fact is, I have repeatedly issued a challenge to
people like you and probably you at one time and you
always, always run away. Why? Because I post rules
that are fair to both sides, which must be agreed to
before the debate can begin and one of those rules is
that you must type just as much as I have to, to
support your claim that it is a contradiction. You
have to actually debate the issue for each one that you
posted and we all know that liars like you can't have
that, because all you have, is atheist web links to
copy and paste from. You may claim it's your web site
as some do, but in reality, you took the information
from atheist web sites. You also don't like the
stakes, since I only enter the debate with high stakes.


Nonsense. You cannot prove that reason is why people like the one you are
responding to "always run away" from your so-called challenges.

So if you want to debate the issue, I am issuing a
challenge right here and now. There will be rules
followed. And as for the stakes, they are that one of
us must cease, for ever, in all news groups. If you
win, I can never again call the Bible inerrant. If I
win, you can never again claim that there is even one
single contradiction in the Bible. Don't worry, both
sides will be allowed one faux pas.


Unacceptable. If you lose, you will forever call the Bible a contradictory
jumble of storytales. If you win the loser should become a Christian.

If you wish to continue, let me know and I'll post some
rules that we can discuss before continuing.


Since you claim to have already posted the rules before, all you need to do is
cite which post you posted the rules in and we will look them up there.

I have
placed this challenge in the seven most popular
Christian news groups, as I see them to be anyway
(maybe you have a suggestion). We can discuss the
rules in this new thread, so that all can see that we
are in agreement on the rules. The messages will
continue to be posted to the seven most popular
Christian groups. Remember now, this is a challenge in
which the stakes are forever. Loser never stops
paying. Are you ready for that? Or are you scared?


Scared of what?

And btw, I expect honesty and since you posted a
massive list, I will pick seven of them, the Bible's
"perfect" number (fitting, I thought) and I get to pick
them, since you obviously have a problem narrowing
things down and posted about 100. :)


Unacceptable. You pick three contradictions of your choosing and your opponent
should pick three contradictions of their choosing. Afterall, all it takes is
two contradictions in a row (not counting the one "free" faux pas) to prove the
Bible is one way or the other.

The Sage

=============================================================
My Home Page : http://members.cox.net/the.sage

"The men that American people admire most extravagantly are
most daring liars; the men they detest the most violently are
those who try to tell them the truth" -- H. L. Mencken
=============================================================

--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditations." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/solution.html
.
User: "The_Sage"

Title: Re: *__CONTRADICTION CHALLENGE TO BIBLE WISDOM__* 11 Feb 2005 06:24:45 PM

Reply to article by: Pastor Dave <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com>
Date written: Fri, 11 Feb 2005 01:52:39 GMT
MsgID:<fr3o01lsgqkr45t3mahco1kqe67clhe6ev@4ax.com>
And this folks, is where they assume they get to set
the rules, all the while accusing you of being guilty
of that. <chuckle>

You avoiding your own challenge. What are you afraid of this time?

This is where this idiot tries to sneak into the
debate, without agreeing to rules and then he'll
pretend that I ran away. What an buffoon!

Wrong again. I asked for the rules and you backed down from your challenge.

You sir, are a moron and I don't have time to waste on
you.

But you did waste time on me by replying -- which either makes you a liar or
illiterate...maybe both!

Had you been serious, then I would have engaged
you. As it stands now, you're an idiot.

That means so much coming from such an "intelligent" debater like yourself. Come
on "Eliajah"! Call down fire from Heaven and show us what you and your God are
made of! Or are you and your God both chicken shits? As God's representative,
you suck!
The Sage
=============================================================
My Home Page : http://members.cox.net/the.sage
"The men that American people admire most extravagantly are
most daring liars; the men they detest the most violently are
those who try to tell them the truth" -- H. L. Mencken
=============================================================
.

User: "PowerPoint"

Title: Re: *__CONTRADICTION CHALLENGE TO BIBLE WISDOM__* 12 Feb 2005 03:12:19 PM
On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 01:52:39 GMT, Pastor Dave
<newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote:

On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 16:27:32 -0700, after pondering
deep thoughts, The_Sage <The_Sage@msn.com> spake
thusly:



And this folks, is where they assume they get to set
the rules, all the while accusing you of being guilty
of that. <chuckle>

This is where this idiot tries to sneak into the
debate, without agreeing to rules and then he'll
pretend that I ran away. What an buffoon!

You sir, are a moron and I don't have time to waste on
you. Had you been serious, then I would have engaged
you. As it stands now, you're an idiot.

Top posting in your anger Dave?
Proverbs 29:22 - An angry man stirreth up strife, and a furious man
aboundeth in transgression.


Reply to article by: Pastor Dave <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com>
Date written: Thu, 10 Feb 2005 22:44:04 GMT
MsgID:<9ton01dh8sff42f8dqtk3vf7bj276fmq78@4ax.com>


Then please could you explain in some way the following for us.


First of all, why name yourself "Bible Wisdom", when
you have none? Copy and paste from atheist web sites
does not equate to Biblical wisdom.


Well that explains why you don't call yourself "Bible Wisdom".

(RSV (Revised Standard Version) translation used).


Secondly, I don't discuss anything, using Bibles that
are translated from the corrupt Alexandrian Text.


You don't appear to try and discuss anything at all, regardless of the source.
If you have yet another version of the Bible that will eliminate two or three of
the contradictions pointed out below by the original poster, I want to see it.
Any other response for not providing your "pure non-Alexandrain text" will be
considered a cop out and evidence that you are all talk and no facts. In other
words, a complete and total liar.

Jacob's offspring in Egypt totalled 70 - Gen 46:26-27, Ex 1:5
Jacob's offspring in Egypt totalled 75 - Acts 7:14

Jacob was buried in a cave in Machpelah's field that was bought from Ephron
the Hittite - Gen 50:13
Jacob was buried in a tomb at Shechem bought from the sons of Hamor - Acts
7:15-16

The Hebrews dwelt in Egypt for 430 years - Ex 12:40
The Hebrews dwelt in Egypt for 400 years - Acts 7:6

God's plague kills 24,000 - Num 25:9
God's plague kills 23,000 - 1 Cor 10:8

The fact is, I have repeatedly issued a challenge to
people like you and probably you at one time and you
always, always run away. Why? Because I post rules
that are fair to both sides, which must be agreed to
before the debate can begin and one of those rules is
that you must type just as much as I have to, to
support your claim that it is a contradiction. You
have to actually debate the issue for each one that you
posted and we all know that liars like you can't have
that, because all you have, is atheist web links to
copy and paste from. You may claim it's your web site
as some do, but in reality, you took the information
from atheist web sites. You also don't like the
stakes, since I only enter the debate with high stakes.


Nonsense. You cannot prove that reason is why people like the one you are
responding to "always run away" from your so-called challenges.

So if you want to debate the issue, I am issuing a
challenge right here and now. There will be rules
followed. And as for the stakes, they are that one of
us must cease, for ever, in all news groups. If you
win, I can never again call the Bible inerrant. If I
win, you can never again claim that there is even one
single contradiction in the Bible. Don't worry, both
sides will be allowed one faux pas.


Unacceptable. If you lose, you will forever call the Bible a contradictory
jumble of storytales. If you win the loser should become a Christian.

If you wish to continue, let me know and I'll post some
rules that we can discuss before continuing.


Since you claim to have already posted the rules before, all you need to do is
cite which post you posted the rules in and we will look them up there.

I have
placed this challenge in the seven most popular
Christian news groups, as I see them to be anyway
(maybe you have a suggestion). We can discuss the
rules in this new thread, so that all can see that we
are in agreement on the rules. The messages will
continue to be posted to the seven most popular
Christian groups. Remember now, this is a challenge in
which the stakes are forever. Loser never stops
paying. Are you ready for that? Or are you scared?


Scared of what?

And btw, I expect honesty and since you posted a
massive list, I will pick seven of them, the Bible's
"perfect" number (fitting, I thought) and I get to pick
them, since you obviously have a problem narrowing
things down and posted about 100. :)


Unacceptable. You pick three contradictions of your choosing and your opponent
should pick three contradictions of their choosing. Afterall, all it takes is
two contradictions in a row (not counting the one "free" faux pas) to prove the
Bible is one way or the other.

The Sage

=============================================================
My Home Page : http://members.cox.net/the.sage

"The men that American people admire most extravagantly are
most daring liars; the men they detest the most violently are
those who try to tell them the truth" -- H. L. Mencken
=============================================================

.

User: "Mike Andrade"

Title: Re: *__CONTRADICTION CHALLENGE TO BIBLE WISDOM__* 10 Feb 2005 08:05:59 PM
Pastor Dave <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in
news:fr3o01lsgqkr45t3mahco1kqe67clhe6ev@4ax.com:

You sir, are a moron and I don't have time to waste on
you. Had you been serious, then I would have engaged
you. As it stands now, you're an idiot.

Did you and Steve Winters go to the same institution?
--
Mike
The dogmatist within is always worse than the enemy without.
- S.J. Gould
.
User: "PowerPoint"

Title: Re: *__CONTRADICTION CHALLENGE TO BIBLE WISDOM__* 10 Feb 2005 08:57:07 PM
On 11 Feb 2005 02:05:59 GMT, Mike Andrade <ma@box.invalid> wrote:

Pastor Dave <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in
news:fr3o01lsgqkr45t3mahco1kqe67clhe6ev@4ax.com:

You sir, are a moron and I don't have time to waste on
you. Had you been serious, then I would have engaged
you. As it stands now, you're an idiot.

Did you and Steve Winters go to the same institution?

"institution"?!?!? Ah, that may explain their 'hijinks'.
.
User: "Mike Andrade"

Title: Re: *__CONTRADICTION CHALLENGE TO BIBLE WISDOM__* 10 Feb 2005 09:10:35 PM
PowerPoint <blarney@sbcgbl.com> wrote in
news:tf7o01d757jmifs1cvnovqc0m320hifibl@4ax.com:

On 11 Feb 2005 02:05:59 GMT, Mike Andrade <ma@box.invalid> wrote:

Pastor Dave <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in
news:fr3o01lsgqkr45t3mahco1kqe67clhe6ev@4ax.com:

You sir, are a moron and I don't have time to waste on
you. Had you been serious, then I would have engaged
you. As it stands now, you're an idiot.

Did you and Steve Winters go to the same institution?



"institution"?!?!? Ah, that may explain their 'hijinks'.

Yes, I chose that term specifically.
--
Mike
Why do we want intelligent terminals when there are so many stupid
users?
.





User: "pablo"

Title: Re: *__CONTRADICTION CHALLENGE TO BIBLE WISDOM__* 10 Feb 2005 05:32:48 PM
I like the one where Superman battles Muhammad Ali to save the world from
the aliens..THAT was the best! Ali won, but SUperman had to take some kind
of Krytonite stuff to make him motal. AFetr that, he regained his strength
and he and Ali kicked some alien BUTT! Too cool, man!
"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:9ton01dh8sff42f8dqtk3vf7bj276fmq78@4ax.com...

On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 21:16:42 GMT, after pondering deep
thoughts, "Bible Wisdom" <Biblewisdom@.com> spake
thusly:


"Pastor Dave" <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in message
news:fo0d011omltl77gfatk6c7eon0plbg8gqf@4ax.com...

On Sun, 06 Feb 2005 00:42:52 GMT, after pondering deep
thoughts, Mike Andrade <ma@box.invalid> spake thusly:

Pastor Dave <newsgroupmail@nospam-tampabay.rr.com> wrote in
news:mhna01toh2daihqpch04gvk2e9lvoppcqu@4ax.com:

On Sat, 05 Feb 2005 23:43:04 GMT, after pondering deep
thoughts, Mike Andrade <ma@box.invalid> spake thusly:


larry4355@adelphia.net wrote in
news:akla01tkieiaavp7jjgp7e6p417bffr64v@4ax.com:

You believe the bible is fallible, then you in my opinion, can not
be a Christian.


So only inerrantists can be Christians?


How does one affirm the Gospel, by denying it's truth?


Asserting that the Bible contains errors is not equivalent to denying
the truth of the gospel.


An error is not truth. Thus, it is the same thing.
You're trying to play God. You'll be happy to point
out the errors for us I bet, according to you and you
think we should all agree and change the message to
suit your belief.

The fact is, that if there is even one error in the
Bible, even if you claim it's due to humans, that means
that it is all up for question. It also means that God
is incapable of getting His word to us straight.


Then please could you explain in some way the following for us.


First of all, why name yourself "Bible Wisdom", when
you have none? Copy and paste from atheist web sites
does not equate to Biblical wisdom.


(RSV (Revised Standard Version) translation used).


Secondly, I don't discuss anything, using Bibles that
are translated from the corrupt Alexandrian Text.

See end of message for the following...

God creates animals and then man - Gen 1:25-26
God creates man and then the animals - Gen 2:18-19


Arpachshad's son was Shelah - Gen 11:12
Arpachshad's grandson was Shelah - Luke 3:35-36


Noah takes 7 pairs of each type of animal onto the ark - Gen 7:2-3
Noah takes one pair of animal onto the ark - Gen 6:19



Terah's lifespan.
According to Gen 11:26, Terah was 70 when Abraham was born and Abraham

was

75 when he left Haran. Therefore he lived 70 years (ie. his age when

Abraham

was born) plus 75 years (the age of Abraham when he left Haran - as

stated

in Gen 12:4). He did not live beyond this as Acts 7:4 states Terah was

dead

when Abraham left Haran. So 70 + 75 = 145 years in total. However, Gen

11:32

states he lived 205 years.



God promises Abraham the land of Canaan to live in - Gen 17:8
God did not allow Abraham to live in the promised land - Acts 7:5, Heb
11:8,9,13



Jacob's offspring in Egypt totalled 70 - Gen 46:26-27, Ex 1:5
Jacob's offspring in Egypt totalled 75 - Acts 7:14
Jacob was buried in a cave in Machpelah's field that was bought from

Ephron

the Hittite - Gen 50:13
Jacob was buried in a tomb at Shechem bought from the sons of Hamor -

Acts

7:15-16



The Hebrews dwelt in Egypt for 430 years - Ex 12:40
The Hebrews dwelt in Egypt for 400 years - Acts 7:6



God's plague kills 24,000 - Num 25:9
God's plague kills 23,000 - 1 Cor 10:8



The Hebrews' journeying - Mount Hor (where Aaron dies), Zalmonah, Punon -
Num 33:37,38,41,42
The Hebrews' journeying - Beeroth Benejaakan, Moserah (where Aaron dies),
Gudgodah, Jotbathah - Deut 10:6,7



God forbids killing - Ex 20:13
God commands killing - Ex 32:27



Solomon's reign.
Acts 13:16-22 numbers the years from when the Hebrews left Egypt to David
beginning his reign as 40 (Wilderness) + 450 (Judges) + 40 (Saul) = 530
years. According to 1 Chron 29:27, David reigned 40 years, so Solomon

became

king (when David died) 530 + 40 years (of David's reign) = 570 years.
However, 1 Kings 6:1 states Solomon's 4th year of rule (when he began the
Temple building) was 480 years after the Hebrews left Egypt, ie. he began
his rule 476 years after the Hebrews left. Therefore there is a
contradiction of (570 - 476) 94 years.



Saul inquired of God, but God did not answer him - 1 Sam 28:6
Saul died because he did not seek guidance from God - 1 Chron 10:13,14



Jesse had eight children - 1 Sam 16:10-13
Jesse had seven children - 1 Chron 2:13-15



David slays Goliath - 1 Sam 17:4,7,50
Elhanan slays Goliath - 2 Sam 21:19



Joram his son, Ahaziah his son, Joash his son, Amaziah his son, Azariah

his

son, Jotham his son - 1 Chron 3:11,12
Joram the father of Uzziah, and Uzziah the father of Jotham - Matt 1:8,9



Asa removes the high places - 2 Chron 14:2
Asa did not remove the high places - 1 Kings 15:11-14



Uzzah dies at the threshing-floor of Nacon - 2 Samuel 6:6
Uzzah dies at the threshing-floor of Chidon - 1 Chron 13:9



David takes 1700 horsemen - 2 Sam 8:4
David takes 7000 horsemen - 1 Chron 18:4



David destroys 700 chariots - 2 Sam 10:18
David destroys 7000 chariots - 1 Chron 19:18



Satan incites David to number the people - 1 Chron 21:1
God incites David to number the people - 2 Sam 24:1



Joab's numbering of the army. 1,100,00 soldiers in Israel; 470,000

soldiers

in Judah - 1 Chron 21:5
Joab's numbering of the army. 800,000 soldiers in Israel; 500,000 in

Judah -

2 Sam 24:9



David buys the land for the altar from Ornan for 600 shekels of gold - 1
Chron 21:24-25
David buys the land for the altar from Araunah for 50 shekels - 2 Sam

24:24




Solomon had 4,000 stalls and 12,000 horsemen - 2 Chron 9:25
Solomon had 40,000 stalls and 12,000 horsemen - 1 Kings 4:26



The Temple pillars were 18 cubits - 1 Kings 7:15
The Temple pillars were 35 cubits - 2 Chron 3:15



The molten sea held 2000 baths - 1 Kings 7:23,26
The molten sea held over 3000 baths - 2 Chron 4:2,5



The importance of wisdom - Proverbs 4:7
The unimportance of wisdom - 1 Cor 1:19



The joy of wisdom - Proverbs 3:13-15
The misery of wisdom - Ecc 1:18



How the righteous suffer like the wicked - Ecc 9:2, Isaiah 57:1
How the righteous flourish - Psalm 92:12-13



No ills befall the righteous - Proverbs 12:21
How the righteous suffer - Job 12:4,6, Hebrews 11:35-37



The wicked will die prematurely and will suffer - Psalm 55:23, Proverbs
10:27, Job 18:5,11,18,19
The wicked lifespan is long and they enjoy life - Psalm 73:3-5,12, Job
21:7-9



Man is to be holy - Leviticus 11:44, 19:2, 20:7
Only God is holy - Revelation 15:4



Drinking alcohol is acceptable - Deuteronomy 14:26, John 2:7-11, 1

Timothy

5:23
Drinking alcohol is not acceptable - Proverbs 20:1, 23:31-34, Hosea 4:11



Jehoiachin was 8 years old when he began his reign - 2 Chron 36:9
Jehoiachin was 18 years old when he began his reign - 2 Kings 24:8



The captain takes 5 men of the king's council - 2 Kings 25:19
The captain takes 7 men of the king's council - Jeremiah 52:25



Baasha dies and his son Ela begins his reign over Israel - this was in

the

26th year of king Asa of Judah - 1 Kings 16:6,8
In the 36th year of Asa's reign, Baasha attacks Judah - 2 Chron 16:1
NB. 2 Chron has Baasha still fighting 10 years after 1 Kings says he

died!




The infancy narratives.
According to Luke 2:21-39, Jesus is taken to the Jerusalem Temple eight

days

after he is born; the family then go up to Nazareth. In Matt 2:14-23,

after

being born the family flee in Egypt and stay there until Herod dies; even

on

returning, they avoid Judea and go up to Nazareth.



Jesus began ministry after John the Baptist is imprisoned - Mark

1:14,15,17

Jesus's began ministry whilst John was free and before imprisoned - John
1:28-29, 3:25-30



Jesus baptised - John 3:22
Jesus did not baptise - John 4:2



The exorcism of Legion - being 2 men - Matt 8:28
The exorcism of Legion - being 1 man - Mark 5:1,2



The healing on leaving Jericho was 1 blind man - Mark 10:46,47
The healing on leaving Jericho was 2 blind men - Matt 20:29,30



No one has ascended into heaven before Jesus - John 3:13
Elijah ascended into heaven - 2 Kings 2:11



Respect for parents taught - Exodus 20:12, Leviticus 19:3, Deuteronomy

5:16,

Ephesians 6:1-2
Disrespect and rejection of parents taught - Matt 8:21- 22, 10:37, 19:29,
23:9, Luke 12:51,53, 14:26



People choose not to come to Jesus - John 5:40
People can only come to Jesus if God wills it - John 6:44



Jesus judges - John 5:22,27, 9:39, 2 Corinthians 5:10
Jesus does not judge - John 8:15, 12:47



Christians to hate their brothers - - Luke 14:26
Whoever hates their brother cannot have eternal life - 1 John 3:15



Jesus refuses to give signs - Matt 12:38,39, Mark 8:12, Luke 11:29
Jesus did give signs - John 3:2, 20:30, Acts 2:22



Man judged/saved by faith - John 3:15,16,36, 5:24, 20:31, Acts 2:21,
16:30,31, Rom 1:17, 5:1,9,11,18, 10:9, Gal 2:16, Phil 3:9, Eph 2:8,9
Man judged/saved by works and lifestyle - Psalm 62:12, Proverbs 24:12,

Matt

7:21, 16:27, 19:16,17, 25:31- 46, Luke 14;13-14, John 5:29, Acts 10:35,

Rom

2:6,7,9,10, 1 Cor 3:8



One of the disciples was lost - John 17:12
None of the disciple were lost - John 18:9



Jesus refers to David eating the consecrated bread in the time of

Abithar -

Mark 2:25,26
In fact David ate the consecrated bread in the time of Ahimelech - 1 Sam
21:1-6



Disciples sent out not to wear sandals - Matt 10:9,10
Disciples sent out to wear sandals - Mark 6:8,9



No man can retain the spirit after death - Eccles 8:8
Peter restores spirit of Tabitha after death - Acts 9:37,40



Believers not to worry about providing for family - Luke 14:26,33,

18:29,30

Believers must provide for family - 1 Timothy 5:8



Jesus did not bear witness to himself - John 5:31
Jesus did bear witness to himself - John 8:14,18



The law/commandments to remain for ever - Matt 5:17-19, Luke 16:17
The law has ended - Romans 7:4, Eph 2:15, Col 2:14



Simon and Andrew's home was in Capernaum - Mark 1:21,29
Simon and Andrew's home was in the same place as Philip's - Bethsaida -

John

1:44



God has given all things into Jesus' hands - John 3:35
God has not given all things into Jesus' hands - Matt 20:23, John 5:19



Everyone sins - 2 Chronicles 6:36, Ecclesiastes 7:20, Rom 3:10,12,23
Believers do not sin - 1 John 3:6,9, 5:18



The anointing and entry into Jerusalem.
Matt and Mark detail how Jesus rode into Jerusalem in Matt 20:1-13, Mark
11:1-11. It was after this that he was anointed at Bethany - Matt

26:6-16,

Mark 14:3- 11. But in John he is anointed (12:1-8) and it is after this

that

he rides into Jerusalem (12:12-15).



The Last Supper.
The Synoptics make it clear this was the Passover meal - Matt 26:19, Mark
14:16, Luke 22:13. However in John, the meal was held on the day before

the

Passover - 13:29, and states that even after the meal the Passover had

still

not begun - 18:28. Moreover, even after the trial, it was the Preparation
day for the Passover - 19:31



Peter denies Jesus before the ***** crows - Luke 22:34, John 12:38
Peter denies Jesus before the ***** crows twice - Mark 14:30, 14:72



Peter is warned he will deny Jesus after the last supper and having left

the

upper room - Matt 26:20-34, Mark 14:17-30
Peter is warned he will deny Jesus during the last supper before leaving

the

upper room - Luke 22:33-39, John 13:37-38/ 18:1



Jesus' trial before the sanhedrin was at night and in morning he was

taken

to Pilate - Matt 26:57-68, 27:1-2
Jesus' trial before the sanhedrin and being taken to Pilate was in the
morning - Luke 22:66-71, 23:1



Simon of Cyrene carries Jesus' cross - Matt 27:32
Jesus carries his cross - John 19:17,18



Jesus was physically descended from David - Romans 1:1- 3.
The genealogies in Matt 1:1-16 and Luke 3:23-38 both attempt to link

Jesus

with Joseph to give Jesus a place in the Davidic line (which was

necessary

for messiahship). However, if virgin born, Joseph would have had nothing

to

do with the conception and any physical/human descent would be through

Mary:

Jesus' only contact with humanity if virgin born. However, Luke 1:36 says
Mary was related to Elizabeth who was of the Aaronic line (Luke 1:5), not
the Davidic line. Therefore, if virgin born, Jesus did not have Davidic
descent (a prerequisite for messiah- ship).



Both robbers revile Jesus - Matt 27:44
Only one robber reviles Jesus and the other believes - Luke 23:41-43



Jesus tells the believing robber he will be with him in paradise that

day -

Luke 23:43
Jesus was in the grave following his death and did not ascend to heaven -
Acts 2:24,31, John 20:17



God forsakes Jesus - Mark 15:34
Jesus is inseparable from God - John 10:30, 14:10, 16:32



The confirmation Jesus is dead.
In Mark 15:43-45, Joseph of Arimathea asks Pilate for Jesus' body, and
Pilate is unaware of whether he is dead; only after sending a centurion

and

receiving this confirmation does he allow Joseph to take the body.

However

in John 19:31-33,38, Pilate actually authorises the leg-breaking to

ensure

they have all died and then authorises Joseph to remove the body. NB.

Mark

15:42 states it was evening, ie. the sabbath had already begun (beginning

at

sundown) when Joseph asks for the body. However, burial was not allowed

on

the sabbath, showing the fictitiousness of the story.



The Resurrection of Jesus
Who went to the tomb?
Matt - 2 Marys
Mark - 2 Marys and Salome
Luke - at least 5 women
John - Mary Magdalene
What was seen?
Matt - Earthquake with angel sitting outside on the recently-moved stone
Mark - Stone already moved and a young man sitting inside
Luke - Stone already moved with two men standing inside
John - Stone moved. No one seen on 1st visit, but two angels sitting

inside

after two earlier visits.
When did the woman/women leave to go to the tomb?
Matt - Towards dawn
Mark - Very early
Luke - At early dawn
John - Still dark (NB. John states it was still dark when Mary arrived at
the tomb).
What did man/men/angel/angels say?
Matt - Jesus was risen and disciples to go to Galilee
Mark - As Matt
Luke - Jesus had risen
John - Asks why Mary is crying.
What do the women/woman do next?
Matt - They run away but meet Jesus who repeats angel's instruction
Mark - They flee and say nothing to anyone. This obviously contradicts

the

other three in which the women do go and tell the disciples (original

Mark

ended at 16:7)
Luke - They go and tell disciples
John - Mary meets Jesus and they talk.
What is first conversation with the risen Jesus?
Matt - Women on way from tomb
Luke - The two disciples on road to Emmaus
John - Mary Magdalene.
What was the time between the resurrection and the ascension?
Matt - At least the time to reach Galilee
Luke - Clearly one day only (see 24:13,33,36,50 - it is made very clear

that

Jesus rose, made all his appearances and ascended back to heaven on the

same

day)
John - At least a week accepting John 20 as the original end to the

Gospel,

but with the John 21 appendix the period was even longer as this has a
Galilean appearance
Acts - 40 days.

An attempt to reconcile John's visit of just Mary Magdalene whilst still
dark with the Synoptics where there are several women and it is daytime,

is

by saying John's was an earlier one, i.e. the one in the Synoptics was a
second one. However this cannot be so as John has Mary Magdalene seeing

the

empty tomb (20:1) and in the Synoptics when the women go to the tomb they
ask about who would roll the stone away (Mark 16:3). Mary Magdalene was

with

them (Mark 16:1) and if she had already been to the tomb, she would have
seen the stone moved away and the question would be irrelevant.
Furthermore, Luke makes any appearance at, or journey to Galilee

absolutely

impossible as it has everything happening in the area of Jerusalem with

the

disciples being told to stay there until Pentecost, and the conclusion

being

Jesus' ascension from nearby Bethany. This is made clear - in Luke the

first

appearance is to the two travelling to Emmaus (10 miles West of

Jerusalem)

and 24:13 states this was "that very day"; the two then go "that same

hour"

to the eleven in Jerusalem (24:33); Jesus then appears whilst they are

still

explaning what they had seen (24:36). Jesus then tells them to stay in
Jerusalem until Pentecost (24:49).
As Luke 24:51 has the ascension on the same day as the resurrection this
prevents any Galilean appearances by Jesus to the eleven as in Matt and
John.
Luke's account makes nonsense of Matt having Jesus tell the women to
instruct the disciples to go up to Galilee (Matt 28:10) if he was going

to

see them himself later that day (as in Luke and John), and furthermore

see

them in Jerusalem. Also, Luke makes it clear that the eleven were told to
stay in Jerusalem from the day of the resurrection to Pentecost, but Matt
has them travelling up to Galilee (28:16) as does John (21:1ff).

Important

to note is Mark 16:7, ie. that the women 'said nothing to anyone' - all
three Gospels contradict this by saying that they told the disciples.
Luke also has Jesus appearing to "the eleven" on the same day as the
resurrection (24:33-36), but John states Thomas was missing on this
appearance and it was a week later that Jesus appeared to all eleven -

with

Thomas then being present (20:24,26).

Note: 1 Cor 15:3-8 lists the resurrection appearances and contradicts the
above.



The chronology of Paul's life.
Acts
(1)Paul converted on the way to Damascus (9:1-8).
(2)He goes to Ananias in Damascus and stays there 'several days' (9:20).
(3)After 'some time'*, Paul goes to Jerusalem (9:23,26) and meets the
apostles there (9:27).
(4)Paul preaches in Jerusalem, but due to threats to kill him, he is sent

to

Tarsus (9:30).
(5)Relief to Jerusalem and Judea taken by Paul & Barnabas (2nd visit)
(11:30)
(6)Paul goes to Jerusalem (3rd time) (12:25)
(7)Paul goes to Jerusalem (3rd or 4th time) (15:1ff).

Galatians.
(1)Paul is converted (1:16).
(2)He does not go to Jerusalem, but to Arabia and then Damascus (1:17)
(3)After 3 years, Paul goes to Jerusalem, meeting only Cephas and James
there (1:18-19) staying only 15 days.
(4)He then goes to the regions of Syria and Cilicia (1:21).
(5)14 years later, Paul goes to Jerusalem with Barnabas and Titus (2:1).
(6)Paul confronts Cephas at Antioch (2:11).
(7)No further information.
The 'some time' in Acts 9:19 is not clear as to how long this was;

different

translations render this 'some time passed' (Jerusalem), 'after a number

of

days' (Moffatt); the literal Greek is "'many' with the view of being
sufficient"; however it is rendered, it is difficult to reconcile this

with

the three years of Gal 1:18.
*It is not clear whether 12:25 is a return to Jerusalem, or a return to
Antioch from Jerusalem; if the former, and the Acts 15 visit is the Gal
2:1-10 one, then in Acts it would be the fourth visit, whilst Paul states

it

was only the second.
Paul's method of counting in Gal. is not absolutely clear, ie. whether

his

14 years in Gal 2:1 is 14 years after his starting point in Gal (ie. his
conversion) or 14 years after the first Jerusalem visit 3 years after his
conversion which he had mentioned immediately beforehand (ie. a total of

17

years after his conversion).
Numerous others problems arise when trying to reconcile the two accounts,
e.g. Acts has Paul in Jerusalem and Judea in his early life (21:17 then
22:3) and as a persecutor of the church there (7:58, 9:1-2,13,21, 26:10)
which makes Paul's comment that (Gal 1:22) he was not known by sight by

the

churches in Judea even after his time in Jerusalem, Syria and Cilicia

(1:17-

21) appear impossible. Furthermore when Paul has a dispute with Peter at
Antioch about Gentile fellowship in Gal 2, why does he not remind him of
what was agreed at the Acts 15 conference on this very subject ?



Abraham was justified by faith - Rom 4:1-5
Abraham was justified by works - James 2:22-24



Man does not die for his ancestors' sin - Deut 24:16, 2 Kings 14:6, Ezek
18:20
Man does die for his ancestors' sin - Ex 20:5, 34:6-7, 2 Sam 12:13-18,

Isa

14:21, Rom 5:12,19, 1 Cor 15:22



Elijah and Moses appear many centuries after they died - Mark 9:2-4
Only God is immortal - 1 Tim 6:15-16



Jesus to be buried for three days and nights - Matt 12:40
Jesus buried for one day and two nights - Mark 15:42,43, John 20:1 (These
texts show the burial did not take place until Friday night and the tomb

was

empty before Sunday morning). Jesus was therefore not in the tomb for

"three

days and three nights" - whether present-day or Jewish time-reckoning is
used.



Jesus was the first person to rise from the dead - Acts 26:23, Rev 1:5
Jesus was not the first person to rise from the dead - 2 Kings 4:32,35,

Luke

7:12-15, Matt 9:18,25, 11:5, 27:52, John 11:44



The Holy Spirit given on Easter Sunday - John 20:19,22
The Holy Spirit given at Pentecost - Acts 2:1-4



Jesus warns disciples he is to leave them - John 16:5,7,28
Jesus assures disciples he will always be with them - Matt 28:20



The Holy Spirit not given until Jesus' death - John 7:39
The Holy Spirit given before Jesus' birth - Luke 1:41,67



Judas dies by hanging himself - Matt 27:5-7
Judas dies by swelling up - Acts 1:18



Women buy anointing spices for Jesus after the sabbath - Mark 16:1
Women buy anointing spices for Jesus before the sabbath - Luke 23:56



Paul's vision.
Acts 9:7 states the men with Paul STOOD speechless, HEARING the voice but
NOT SEEING anyone.
Acts 22:9 states they did NOT HEAR the voice.
Acts 26:14 states they all FELL to the ground and DID HEAR the voice.



God is impartial towards people - Acts 10:34, Rom 2:11, Gal 2:8, Eph 6:9
God is partial towards people - Rom 8:29-30, 9:11-13, Matt 10:5-6,

15:22-25,

Luke 1:30


Those without the law, will perish without it - Rom 2:12
Where there is no law, there can be no transgression - Rom 4:15


Salvation only available to a few who have been chosen - Matt 7:14,

22:14,

Luke 12:32, 13:24, John 6:37,65, 15:16,19, Rom 8:29, 9:11-23, Eph 1:4,
Salvation available to those who want it - Matt 7:7,8, 11:28, John 3:16,
5:40, 7:37, Acts 2:21, Rev 3:20
NB. Prov 16:4 states God actually made the unsaved for 'the day of

trouble'

(ie. damnation). In contrast to texts that state Jesus died for the

elect/a

small number, there are others that confirm, or at least suggest everyone
will be saved by Christ - John 1:29, 4:42, 1 Cor 15:29, Heb 2:9, 1 John
4:14.



Satan is free to act as he pleases - Job 1:6-7, 2:1-2, Zech 3;1, Matt

4:1, 1

Pet 5:8
The angels who rebelled against God are chained up - Jude 6



James and John ask Jesus for special places in the kingdom - Mark

10:35-37

It is the mother of James and John who asks Jesus for special places for
them - Matt 20:21-22



No one born of God sins - 1 John 3:9
Everyone sins - Rom 3:23, 1 John 1:8



No one is righteous - Rom 3:10
There are righteous - James 5:16



The sin of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit is unforgiveable - Matt

12:32,

Mark 3:29
God forgives all sins - 1 John 1:7



Love your enemies - Matt 5:44
Refuse to greet your enemies - 2 John 10: enemies are cursed by Paul -

Gal

1:9: Paul asks that his enemies mutilate themselves - Gal 5:12



Those who go into the grave will never arise - Job 7:7,9, 14:10,12
Those who go into the grave will arise - John 5:28-29, 11:24, 1 Cor
15:12-18,20-23,52, Rev 20:4



The dead are unconscious - Job 14:12, Ecc 9:5, Dan 12:2
The dead are conscious - Mark 9:4, Luke 16:22-23, Rev 6:9-10



The earth will exist for ever - Ecc 1:4
The earth will be destroyed - 2 Pet 3:10



No one has ever seen God - Ex 33:17,20, John 1:18, 1 Tim 6:15-16
People have seen God - Gen 32:30, Ex 24:9-10, 33:11,21- 23, Isa 6:5, Deut
5:24, Amos 9:1



God is not responsible for confusion - 1 Cor 14:33
God is responsible for confusion - Isa 45:7



All will swear to God - Isa 45:22-23
Jesus forbids swearing - Matt 5:34



God can do anything - Mark 10:27, Luke 1:37
God is limited in what he can do - Judges 1:19, Mark 6:5-6



God wants everyone to be saved - 1 Tim 2:3-4, 2 Pet 3:9
God does not want everyone to be saved - Prov 16:4, Mark 4:11-12, Rom

9:18,

2 Thess 2:11



The returnees from Babylonian exile in 537/536 BCE.
42,360 in Ezra 2:64, but 9,818 in Ezra 2:3-60 and 31,089 in Nehemiah

7:7-65.




God is not angry for long - Psa 30:5, 103:9, Micah 7:18
God is angry for a long time - Num 32:13, Rev 14:11, 20:10



God never lies and hates lying - Ex 23:1, Num 23:19, Prov 12:22, Titus

1:2

God himself lies - 1 Kings 22:23, 2 Chron 18:22, 2 Thess 2:11



God does not repent (ie. regret an action/change his mind) - Num 23:19, 1
Sam 15:29, Mal 3:6
God does repent (ie. regret an action/change his mind) - Gen 6:6-7, Ex
32:14, 1 Sam 15:35, 2 Sam 24:16, 1 Chron 21:15, Jer 18:8,10, 26:3,13,19,
42:10, Ezek 24:14, Joel 2:13, Amos 7:3, Jonah 3:10



The earth has no foundation - Job 26:7
The earth does have foundations - 1 Sam 2:8, Psa 104:5



God feeds and cares for all life - Psa 145:15-16
God does not feed and care for all life - Deut 28:48, Isa 5:13, 8:21,

50:2




God is warlike - Ex 15:3, Psa 24:8, Rev 19:11,13
Man should be peaceful as God is - Matt 5:9, John 14:27, Rom 15:33, 2

Thess

3:16



Graven images not to be made - Ex 20:4
Graven images are to be made - Ex 25:18



The earth is God/Jesus' - Psa 24:1, 1 Cor 10:26, Rev 1:5
The earth is the devil's - John 12:31, 2 Cor 4:4



God dwells in light - Psa 104:1,2, 1 Tim 6:15-16, 1 John 1:5
God dwells in darkness - 1 Kings 8:12, 2 Chron 6:1, Psa 18:11, Psa 97:1-2



Jesus is God - John 1:1, John 20:28
Jesus is inferior/subordinate to God - John 14:28, 1 Cor 11:3, 15:28



The Synoptics have Jesus clearing the Temple at the end of his ministry
(Mark 11:15-17 & par) but John has this at the very beginning (2:13-16).
Also, John has Jesus travelling back and forth between Galilee and

Jerusalem

but the synoptics have him starting in Galilee & making the one journey
south to Jerusalem ending in his death.



God is gracious, loving, merciful, good, forgiving, and perfect - Ex

34:6,

Deut 32:4, 2 Sam 22:31, Psa 86:5, 100:5, 106:1, 111:4,7, 136:1, 145:8-9,

Lam

3:33, Joel 2:13, Hab 1:12-13, Mark 10:18, 1 John 4:8,16
God slaughters, is vengeful, does evil, defiles, destroys and creates

woes -

Ex 32:14, Num 31:1-18, Deut 2:30,34, 7:2,16, 20:10-20, 1 Sam 6:19, Job
42:11, Isa 45:7, Jer 18:5,8,11, 26:3,13,19, 42:10-11, Lam 3:38, Ezek
6:12-13, 20:25-26, Amos 3:6, Nahum 1:2, Jonah 3:10



God sees everything and is omnipresent - Psa 11:4, Prov 15:3, Job 34:21,

Jer

16:17, 23:24, Heb 4:13
God does not see everything and is not omnipresent - Gen 3:9-10, 11:5,
18:20-21, Ex 3:8, 19:11, 18,20, Micah 1:3



God did not dwell in the house (Temple) Solomon built - Acts 7:48
God did dwell in the house (Temple) that Solomon built - 1 Kings 8:13



God is always near - Psa 46:1, 145:14, 18-19, James 4:8
God is not always near - 1 Sam 28:6, Psa 10:1, 22:1,2, Matt 27:46



God creates all life out of the waters - Gen 1:20-21
God creates all life out of the earth - Gen 2:19



The doers of the law will be justified - Rom 2:13
No one is justified by the law - Rom 3:20



Disciples will be persecuted and martyred - Luke 21:16, Acts 7:59-60,

8:1,

Rev 6:9
Disciples will not be harmed - Luke 21:18



Christians to obey authorities - Rom 13;1, 1 Pet 2:13- 14
Christians to obey God rather than authorities - Acts 5:29



Disciples given power to cure all ills - Matt 10:1, Luke 9:1
Disciples could not cure all ills - Matt 17:18-20



Centurion goes to Jesus for his servant to be healed - Matt 8:5-13
Centurion sends elders to Jesus to ask for his servant to be healed -

Luke

7:1-10



God's word and law abides for ever - Matt 5:18, 1 Pet 1:25
God's word and law has been cancelled - Eph 2:15, Col 2:14



Governors are God's ministers for the good and protect the innocent - Rom
13:1,3, 1 Pet 2:13-14
The Governor Pontius Pilate has Jesus crucified - Mark 15:15, Luke
23:11,24,25, John 19:1,6



Christ was raised a spirit being - 1 Cor 15:44-45, 1 Pet 3:18
Christ was physically raised - Luke 24:39,42-43, John 20:26-27



The coming kingdom of God will be visible - Daniel 2:44
The coming kingdom of God will not be visible - Luke 17:20-21



God is spirit - John 4:24
God has feet - Psa 18:9, arms - Jer 27:5, wings - Psa 36:7, eyes - Deut
11:12, Psa 34:15, a mouth - Isa 1:20, Deut 8:3, ears - 2 Chron 6:40, a
nose - Ex 15:8, a heart - Gen 6:6, legs - Gen 3:8



The Bible teaches forgiveness - Matt 6:14-15, Rom 12:17-19, Eph 4:32, Col
3:13
The Bible teaches punishment and vengeance - Gen 9:6, Ex 21:23-25,29, Lev
24;16,23



God is one - Deut 6:4
God is plural - Gen 1:26, 11:6,7, Isa 6:8



Gen 6:4 refers to a race called the Nephilim. Later in Gen 7:11-24 there

is

the account of the Flood in which "every living thing" was killed (7:23)
except Noah and his family: however, in Num 13:33 the Nephilim still

exist.




The families of Japheth, Ham and Shem all have their own languages - Gen
10:5,20,31
There is only one language over the whole earth - Gen 11:1



It is the Midianites who sell Joseph to Potiphar - Gen 37:36
it is the Ishmaelites who sell Joseph to Potiphar - Gen 39:1



The Levites' service to be from age 30 to 50 - Num 3:3,23,30,35,39,43,47
The Levites' service to be from age 25 to 50 - Num 8:23



Sisera killed whilst asleep - Jud 4:20-21
Sisera killed whilst standing and drinking milk - Jud 5:25-27



God's attributes are unknowable - Job 11:7-9
God's attributes are knowable - Rom 1:20



Beersheba given its name by Abraham - Gen 21:31-33
Beersheba given its name by Isaac - Gen 26:32-33



Saul killed by an Amalekite - 2 Sam 1:5-10
Saul killed by Philistines - 2 Sam 21:22



There were 3300 chief officers on Temple building - 1 Kings 5:16
There were 3600 chief officers on Temple building - 2 Chron 2:18



There were 550 who had charge of the people - 1 Kings 9:23
There were 250 who had charge of the people - 2 Chron 8:10



Jehoshaphat removed the high places - 2 Chron 17:1,6
Jehoshaphat did not remove the high places - 2 Chron 20:31,33



Zedekiah was Jehoiachin's brother - 2 Chron 36:9-10
Zedekiah was Jehoiachin's uncle - 2 Kings 24:17



The sundial to go back 10 degrees as a sign that God would heal

Hezekiah's

boil - 2 Kings 20:7-11
The sundial to go back 10 degrees as a sign God would defend the city
against the Assyrians -Isa 38:4-8



The rich cannot enter heaven; the kingdom of God is for the poor - Luke
6:20, Matt 19:24, James 5:1
God rewards by bestowing wealth and disciples can be rich - Job 42:10,

Matt

27:57



Satan entered Judas at the last supper - John 13:27
Satan entered Judas before the last supper - Luke 22:1-3



Food offered to idols should be avoided - Acts 15:29
It is of no importance if food offered to idols is eaten - 1 Cor

8:1,4,7,8




It was those who accused Jesus and were responsible for his death who

buried

him - Acts 13:27-29
It was Joseph of Arimathea, a disciple, who buried Jesus - Matt 27:59-60



Christ is the only master - Matt 23:10
Employers are masters - Eph 6:5,9



There were six generations inclusive between Joram and Jotham - 1 Chron
3:11-12
There were three generations inclusive between Joram and Jotham - Matt

1:8-9




Jesus' home was at Capernaum - Mark 1:9,24, 2:1
Jesus' home was in Judea - John 4:43-45
NB. In John, Jesus leaves Jerusalem in Judea and goes to Galilee because

"a

prophet has no honour in his own country" - therefore Judea must have

been

his home country - contradicting Mark.



Believers will be deceived into leaving the faith - 1 Tim 4:1, Heb 6:4-6,
Gal 3:1, Rev 2:5
God will protect believers from being led astray - Psa 31:23,

37:28,32,33,

John 10:27-29



Jesus never changes - Heb 13:8
Jesus does change - he dwelt with the Father (John 17:5), was born an

infant

with human weaknesses (Luke 2:7,52), became separated from God (Matt

27:46),

then died (Matt 27:50), was then in Hades (Acts 2:31), was then raised

from

the dead in a glorified body (1 Cor 15:45) and ascended into heaven where

he

mediates (1 John 2:1, 1 Tim 2:5)



Moses was inarticulate - Ex 4:10
Moses was articulate - Acts 7:22



Only God is to be called 'father' - Matt 23:9
Various people can be called 'father' - 1 Cor 10:1, Eph 6:1-4, 1 John
2:13-14, Matt 15:4



Jesus prayed to God to be saved from death, and he was heard - Heb 5:7
Jesus prayed to God to be saved from death and was not heard (ie. he was
executed the next day) - Luke 22:41,42,44,47,54, 23:33



Prepare your defence if challenged for your faith - 1 Pet 3:15
Don't bother beforehand about what is to be said if challenged for your
faith - Mark 13:11



God instructs man to live on vegetarian diet - Gen 1:29-30
Any food can be eaten - Gen 9:3, Acts 10:12-13, Rom 14:2



Martyred believers cry out for vengeance - Rev 6:9-10
Believers should love/forgive their enemies - Matt 5:44, 6:15,18:32-35,

Luke

6:27-28



In Luke 10:38-42, Mary and Martha's home is between Samaria (mentioned in
9:57) and Jericho (mentioned in 18:35). It is after leaving Jericho (that
was AFTER where they lived) that Jesus reaches Bethany (19:29). However,
according to John (11:18-20, 12:1-3), their home was in Bethany.



It is wrong to judge others - Matt 7:1, Luke 6:37, Rom 2:1, 14:10
Others can be judged - Matt 23:13-33, John 8:44, Rom 1:27,29-32



At the feeding of the 5000, 200 denarii would have fed the crowd - Mark

6:37

At the feeding of the 5000, 200 denarii would not have fed the crowd -

John

6:7



God tells Zedekiah he will be captured but die peacefully - Jer 34:2-5
Zedekiah is capture, has his eyes taken out and is imprisoned to the day

he

dies - Jer 52:10-11



Jesus refuses to disclose who he is, or allow others to do this - Matt
12:15-16, 16:16-17,20, Mark 3:11-12, 8:29-30, Luke 9:20-21
Jesus tells the Samaritans (John 4:25-26), the Jews (John 5:39, 8:42,58,
10:24-25,30), the crowds (John 6:40), and others (John 9:35-38), who he

is


The Gospel not to be taken