| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"guardian Snow" |
| Date: |
26 Jan 2008 06:59:19 AM |
| Object: |
A hard Day's Prayer |
Psa 62:7 My deliverance and my esteem depend on Elohim; The rock of my
strength, my refuge is in Elohim. 8 Trust in Him at all times, you
people; Pour out your heart before Him; Elohim is a refuge for us.
Selah.
A Hard Day=E2=80=99s Prayer
Dear Father,
In spite of everything, I thank You for calling me to this work, and I
praise Your name for success amid failure, conversions among the
hardened, and a few kind words from my friends to offset the gossip of
my critics. Save me from obsessing over my foes or from thinking I=E2=80=99m=
a
martyr because of low approval ratings. Don=E2=80=99t just keep me faithful;=
make me joyful. Relieve my anxieties, increase my confidence, and use
me despite myself. Keep me from leaving this work a minute too early,
or from staying a day too long. In all I do, help me work heartily as
unto You, offering the work of my hands and heart as a sweet savor
humbly rendered. Anoint me with Your blessings, though delayed or
unseen, for You have promised that my labor in You is not in vain, and
I am taking You at Your Word.
In =D7=99=D7=94=D7=95=D7=A9=D7=A2 Messiah's name. Amen.
Shalom,
Snow
Sweetest Lord, make me appreciative of the dignity of my high
vocation, and its many responsibilities. Never permit me to disgrace
it by giving way to coldness, unkindness, or impatience.
Mother Teresa
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| User: "Qadosh Stephanos" |
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| Title: Re: A hard Day's Prayer |
26 Jan 2008 08:21:08 AM |
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On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 04:59:19 -0800 (PST), guardian Snow
<snowpheonix@eck.net.au> wrote:
Psa 62:7 My deliverance and my esteem depend on Elohim; The rock of my
strength, my refuge is in Elohim. 8 Trust in Him at all times, you
people; Pour out your heart before Him; Elohim is a refuge for us.
Selah.
A Hard Day’s Prayer
Dear Father,
In spite of everything, I thank You for calling me to this work, and I
praise Your name for success amid failure, conversions among the
hardened, and a few kind words from my friends to offset the gossip of
my critics. Save me from obsessing over my foes or from thinking I’m a
martyr because of low approval ratings. Don’t just keep me faithful;
make me joyful. Relieve my anxieties, increase my confidence, and use
me despite myself. Keep me from leaving this work a minute too early,
or from staying a day too long. In all I do, help me work heartily as
unto You, offering the work of my hands and heart as a sweet savor
humbly rendered. Anoint me with Your blessings, though delayed or
unseen, for You have promised that my labor in You is not in vain, and
I am taking You at Your Word.
In ????? Messiah's name. Amen.
Shalom,
Snow
Sweetest Lord, make me appreciative of the dignity of my high
vocation, and its many responsibilities. Never permit me to disgrace
it by giving way to coldness, unkindness, or impatience.
Mother Teresa
Matthew chapter 6 (ASV)
Take heed that ye do not your righteousness before men, to be seen of
them: else ye have no reward with your Father who is in heaven. When
therefore thou doest alms, sound not a trumpet before thee, as the
hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have
glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have received their reward.
But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right
hand doeth: that thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father who seeth
in secret shall recompense thee. And when ye pray, ye shall not be as
the hypocrites: for they love to stand and pray in the synagogues and
in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I
say unto you, They have received their reward. But thou, when thou
prayest, enter into thine inner chamber, and having shut thy door,
pray to thy Father who is in secret, and thy Father who seeth in
secret shall recompense thee. And in praying use not vain repetitions,
as the Gentiles do: for they think that they shall be heard for their
much speaking. Be not therefore like unto them: for your Father
knoweth what things ye have need of, before ye ask him. After this
manner therefore pray ye. Our Father who art in heaven, Hallowed be
thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so on
earth. Give us this day our daily bread. And forgive us our debts, as
we also have forgiven our debtors. And bring us not into temptation,
but deliver us from the evil one. For if ye forgive men their
trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if ye
forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive
your trespasses. Moreover when ye fast, be not, as the hypocrites, of
a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces, that they may be
seen of men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have received their
reward. But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thy head, and wash thy
face; that thou be not seen of men to fast, but of thy Father who is
in secret: and thy Father, who seeth in secret, shall recompense thee.
Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon the earth, where moth and
rust consume, and where thieves break through and steal: but lay up
for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust doth
consume, and where thieves do not break through nor steal: for where
thy treasure is, there will thy heart be also. The lamp of the body is
the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be
full of light. But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full
of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how
great is the darkness! No man can serve two masters; for either he
will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to one,
and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon. Therefore I say
unto you, be not anxious for your life, what ye shall eat, or what ye
shall drink; nor yet for your body, what ye shall put on. Is not the
life more than the food, and the body than the raiment? Behold the
birds of the heaven, that they sow not, neither do they reap, nor
gather into barns; and your heavenly Father feedeth them. Are not ye
of much more value then they? And which of you by being anxious can
add one cubit unto the measure of his life? And why are ye anxious
concerning raiment? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow;
they toil not, neither do they spin: yet I say unto you, that even
Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. But if God
doth so clothe the grass of the field, which to-day is, and to-morrow
is cast into the oven, shall he not much more clothe you, O ye of
little faith? Be not therefore anxious, saying, What shall we eat? or,
What shall we drink? or, Wherewithal shall we be clothed? For after
all these things do the Gentiles seek; for your heavenly Father
knoweth that ye have need of all these things. But seek ye first his
kingdom, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added
unto you. Be not therefore anxious for the morrow: for the morrow will
be anxious for itself. Sufficient unto the day is the evil thereof.
Hypocrite.
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| User: "guardian Snow" |
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| Title: Re: A hard Day's Prayer |
26 Jan 2008 11:09:54 AM |
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On Jan 27, 1:21 am, Qadosh Stephanos <qadosh.stepha...@yahoo.ca>
wrote:
Hypocrite.
You should take the time to explain to me why you feel like that. I
love Matthew 6 but I really don't see your relevance with me sharing a
prayer.
Shalom,
Snow
Being unwanted, unloved, uncared for, forgotten by everybody, I think
that is a much greater hunger, a much greater poverty than the person
who has nothing to eat.
Mother Teresa
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| User: "Qadosh Stephanos" |
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| Title: Re: A hard Day's Prayer |
27 Jan 2008 11:06:58 AM |
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On Sat, 26 Jan 2008 09:09:54 -0800 (PST), guardian Snow
<snowpheonix@eck.net.au> wrote:
On Jan 27, 1:21 am, Qadosh Stephanos <qadosh.stepha...@yahoo.ca>
wrote:
Hypocrite.
You should take the time to explain to me why you feel like that. I
love Matthew 6 but I really don't see your relevance with me sharing a
prayer.
Matthew 6:5-18 (ASV)
And when ye pray, ye shall not be as the hypocrites: for they love to
stand and pray in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets,
that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have
received their reward. But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thine
inner chamber, and having shut thy door, pray to thy Father who is in
secret, and thy Father who seeth in secret shall recompense thee. And
in praying use not vain repetitions, as the Gentiles do: for they
think that they shall be heard for their much speaking. Be not
therefore like unto them: for your Father knoweth what things ye have
need of, before ye ask him. After this manner therefore pray ye. Our
Father who art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy
will be done, as in heaven, so on earth. Give us this day our daily
bread. And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
And bring us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one.
For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also
forgive you. But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will
your Father forgive your trespasses. Moreover when ye fast, be not, as
the hypocrites, of a sad countenance: for they disfigure their faces,
that they may be seen of men to fast. Verily I say unto you, They have
received their reward. But thou, when thou fastest, anoint thy head,
and wash thy face; that thou be not seen of men to fast, but of thy
Father who is in secret: and thy Father, who seeth in secret, shall
recompense thee.
A double hypocrite. Using the words of your own enemies to attract.
Deceitful beyond scriptures. Shame on you. Treasonous beyond words.
A double agent of fallen angels. A smooth talker of Paul's Godspel.
Shame on you.
.
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| User: "guardian Snow" |
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| Title: Re: A hard Day's Prayer |
27 Jan 2008 11:21:35 AM |
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On Jan 28, 4:06 am, Qadosh Stephanos <qadosh.stepha...@yahoo.ca>
wrote:
A double hypocrite. Using the words of your own enemies to attract.
Deceitful beyond scriptures. Shame on you. Treasonous beyond words.
A double agent of fallen angels. A smooth talker of Paul's Godspel.
Shame on you.
Mat 16:6 And =D7=99=D7=94=D7=95=D7=A9=D7=A2 said to them, =E2=80=9CMind! And=
beware of the leaven of
the Pharisees and the Sadducees.=E2=80=9D
Read the scriptures my friend and you will find that I am not afraid
of the truth that sets me free, only the leaven of the Pharisee and I
have the eye to know the difference.
1Ti 6:12 Fight the good fight of the belief, lay hold on everlasting
life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good
confession before many witnesses.
Words encouraging us to confess our faith and fight the good fight are
hardly ones I'd be ashamed of. You are mistaken to think that Paul is
my enemy and I have found it better to focus on the truth.
Pro 31:21 She is not afraid of snow for her household, For all her
household is dressed in scarlet.
The fact is that if all I am doing is preaching a negative message
then I am not keeping true to the spirit of the Good News my friend:
Mat 28:19 =E2=80=9CTherefore, go and make taught ones of all the nations,
immersing them in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Set-
apart Spirit,
The Job is preaching the Good News, not being afraid of some defeated
enemy.
Shalom,
Snow
I have been up against tough competition all my life. I wouldn't know
how to get along without it.
Walt Disney
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| User: "Linda Lee" |
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| Title: Re: A hard Day's Prayer |
27 Jan 2008 09:23:44 PM |
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On Jan 27, 12:21 pm, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
On Jan 28, 4:06 am, Qadosh Stephanos <qadosh.stepha...@yahoo.ca>
wrote:
A double hypocrite. Using the words of your own enemies to attract.
Deceitful beyond scriptures. Shame on you. Treasonous beyond words.
A double agent of fallen angels. A smooth talker of Paul's Godspel.
Shame on you.
Mat 16:6 And =D7=99=D7=94=D7=95=D7=A9=D7=A2 said to them, =E2=80=9CMind! A=
nd beware of the leaven of
the Pharisees and the Sadducees.=E2=80=9D
Read the scriptures my friend and you will find that I am not afraid
of the truth that sets me free, only the leaven of the Pharisee and I
have the eye to know the difference.
1Ti 6:12 Fight the good fight of the belief, lay hold on everlasting
life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good
confession before many witnesses.
Words encouraging us to confess our faith and fight the good fight are
hardly ones I'd be ashamed of. You are mistaken to think that Paul is
my enemy and I have found it better to focus on the truth.
Pro 31:21 She is not afraid of snow for her household, For all her
household is dressed in scarlet.
The fact is that if all I am doing is preaching a negative message
then I am not keeping true to the spirit of the Good News my friend:
Mat 28:19 =E2=80=9CTherefore, go and make taught ones of all the nations,
immersing them in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Set-
apart Spirit,
The Job is preaching the Good News, not being afraid of some defeated
enemy.
I've seen most Christian churches are Pauline almost exclusive of
preaching any other part of the NT and also ignoring the OT.
It's a mistake to use even the parts of Paul's writings where he isn't
threatening not to spare them or to wield the sword on them, as Paul
used words like love, etc. to con people into believing he preached
the gospel of Christ.
So you're either posting his con or his threats when you post Paul's
words.
It makes me sick to read the following from Paul:
1Ti 6:12 Fight the good fight of the belief, lay hold on everlasting
life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good
confession before many witnesses.
Fight the good fight? With swords against believers (Romans 13)?? "of
the belief" - the beliefs of Paul.
Rom 13:4-5 "For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if
thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in
vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon
him that doeth evil.Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for
wrath, but also for conscience sake."
And yes, Paul is speaking of himself as a minister here as he uses the
same Greek word for minister here as he does in Col. 1:24-25: " the
church: Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of
God which is given to me for you, to fulfill the word of God".
And what is evil in Paul's eyes? : 2 Cor. 13:2-3 "I told you before,
and foretell you, as if I were present, the second time; and being
absent now I write to them which heretofore have sinned, and to all
other, that, if I come again, I will not spare: Since ye seek a proof
of Christ speaking in me".
The Messiah spoke of people like Paul:
Mat 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom
of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
There were violent evil people trying to obliterate the gospel of the
Messiah, and Paul was the most successful among them.
.
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| User: "guardian Snow" |
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| Title: Good News or Bad News, what do we teach? |
27 Jan 2008 10:35:45 PM |
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On Jan 28, 2:23 pm, Linda Lee <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 12:21 pm, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
On Jan 28, 4:06 am, Qadosh Stephanos <qadosh.stepha...@yahoo.ca>
wrote:
A double hypocrite. Using the words of your own enemies to attract.
Deceitful beyond scriptures. Shame on you. Treasonous beyond words.
A double agent of fallen angels. A smooth talker of Paul's Godspel.
Shame on you.
Mat 16:6 And =D7=99=D7=94=D7=95=D7=A9=D7=A2 said to them, =E2=80=9CMind!=
And beware of the leaven of
the Pharisees and the Sadducees.=E2=80=9D
Read the scriptures my friend and you will find that I am not afraid
of the truth that sets me free, only the leaven of the Pharisee and I
have the eye to know the difference.
1Ti 6:12 Fight the good fight of the belief, lay hold on everlasting
life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good
confession before many witnesses.
Words encouraging us to confess our faith and fight the good fight are
hardly ones I'd be ashamed of. You are mistaken to think that Paul is
my enemy and I have found it better to focus on the truth.
Pro 31:21 She is not afraid of snow for her household, For all her
household is dressed in scarlet.
The fact is that if all I am doing is preaching a negative message
then I am not keeping true to the spirit of the Good News my friend:
Mat 28:19 =E2=80=9CTherefore, go and make taught ones of all the nations=
,
immersing them in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Set-
apart Spirit,
The Job is preaching the Good News, not being afraid of some defeated
enemy.
I've seen most Christian churches are Pauline almost exclusive of
preaching any other part of the NT and also ignoring the OT.
It's a mistake to use even the parts of Paul's writings where he isn't
threatening not to spare them or to wield the sword on them, as Paul
used words like love, etc. to con people into believing he preached
the gospel of Christ.
So you're either posting his con or his threats when you post Paul's
words.
It makes me sick to read the following from Paul:
1Ti 6:12 Fight the good fight of the belief, lay hold on everlasting
life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good
confession before many witnesses.
Fight the good fight? With swords against believers (Romans 13)?? "of
the belief" - the beliefs of Paul.
Rom 13:4-5 "For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if
thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in
vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon
him that doeth evil.Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for
wrath, but also for conscience sake."
And yes, Paul is speaking of himself as a minister here as he uses the
same Greek word for minister here as he does in Col. 1:24-25: " the
church: Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of
God which is given to me for you, to fulfill the word of God".
And what is evil in Paul's eyes? : 2 Cor. 13:2-3 "I told you before,
and foretell you, as if I were present, the second time; and being
absent now I write to them which heretofore have sinned, and to all
other, that, if I come again, I will not spare: Since ye seek a proof
of Christ speaking in me".
The Messiah spoke of people like Paul:
Mat 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom
of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
There were violent evil people trying to obliterate the gospel of the
Messiah, and Paul was the most successful among them.
Your my sister, you know I have a deep respect for the insights you
share with me. I believe you also know that I think:
Isa 14:12 =E2=80=9CHow you have fallen from the heavens, O H=C4=95l=C4=95l,=
son of the
morning! You have been cut down to the ground, you who laid low the
gentiles!
speaks of the false apostle Paul. Read that passage carefully because
you find that he's been defeated already.
I think that entire chapter speaks about Paul. When I first got
started sharing that message is when my whole conflict with Debra
began.. it was a crucial time in my life. I figured out something on
the way... People don't want to know the truth. Your trying to teach
advanced religion to a crowd that is simple minded.
Isa 38:18 =E2=80=9CFor the grave does not thank You, nor death praise You;
those who go down to the pit do not watch for Your truth. 19 =E2=80=9CThe
living, the living =E2=80=93 he is praising You, as I do this day. A father
makes known Your truth to his children.
People that seek the truth will have it revealed to them, just as it
was revealed to you. In the mean time we have a more important
mission and it's really come down to this thought...
Do we spend all our energy preaching the Bad News in that Christians
have become poisoned by paganism and false teachers or do we spend our
time trying to reach lost souls for =D7=99=D7=94=D7=95=D7=94?
The point is that there are those of us who understand that Paul
shouldn't have been canonized in scriptures but the fact still remains
that people ignore the warnings from the prophets, =D7=99=D7=94=D7=95=D7=A9=
=D7=A2 Messiah and
even Peter. They see it in a different set of eyes but even Peter and
the Messiah did warn us but they did not forbid and seal them.
Joh 6:27 =E2=80=9CDo not labour for the food that is perishing, but for the
food that is remaining to everlasting life, which the Son of Ad=CC=B1am
shall give you, for the Father, Elohim, has set His seal on Him.=E2=80=9D
Joh 6:35 And =D7=99=D7=94=D7=95=D7=A9=D7=A2 said to them, =E2=80=9CI am the =
bread of life. He who comes
to Me shall not get hungry at all, and he who believes in Me shall not
get thirsty at all.
It is our job to give the bread and if we accept that Paul is just a
tool to be used for leading people back to =D7=99=D7=94=D7=95=D7=A9=D7=A2, i=
t becomes a case of
preaching the Good News and not just vanity to show we are right about
what we know of our evil apostle.
Let me show you an example...
(KJV) Act 14:14 Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of,
they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,
Now the majority of people will read this and believe that the
apostles are Barnabas and Paul. They believe Paul then rebukes these
people for calling him a God.
Act 14:12 And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius,
because he was the chief speaker.
We both know that Paul wasn't a apostle... So we know that they are
not speaking of Paul renting his clothes. It also goes that Paul did
not rebuke the crowd for saying he was a God. The apostles did... and
thats why we see that Paul got stoned!
Act 14:19 And there came thither certain Jews from Antioch and
Iconium, who persuaded the people, and, having stoned Paul, drew him
out of the city, supposing he had been dead.
He wasn't stoned for rebuking a crowd and being a great Christian.. He
was stoned for claiming to be a God. But here's the point... We can
see that but the vast majority will see that Paul is being martyred
and persecuted..
Now do I spend endless days trying to persuade people that I'm right..
Or do I have confidence in the knowledge given to me and move on to
sharing the Good News of forgiveness of sins and teaching the truth?
Psa 122:6 Pray for the peace of Yerushalayim, Let those who love You
be at rest. 7 Peace be within your walls, Rest in your citadels. 8 For
the sake of my brothers and companions, I say, =E2=80=9CPeace be within you.=
=E2=80=9D
9 For the sake of the House of =D7=99=D7=94=D7=95=D7=94 our Elohim I seek yo=
ur good.
In the end it comes down to sheer vanity and wrestling to prove what I
know vs. what other people believe and that puts us at a
disadvantage. I still know and understand what it is I'm dealing with
but I also understand that whats more important to me is preaching the
Good News and not spending endless energy on negative issues that only
put me at odds within my own brothers of faith.
It's not a gospel of peace but a recognition that our Father's way
will prevail over all the lies of Lucifer who has been cast down to
the ground!
Shalom,
Snow
Reputation is what men and women think of us; character is what God
and angels know of us.
Thomas Paine
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| User: "Linda Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Good News (gospel of truth of Messiah) or Bad News (lying gospelof Paul) - Which do we have the integrity to teach? |
28 Jan 2008 05:01:54 PM |
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On Jan 27, 11:35 pm, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
On Jan 28, 2:23 pm, Linda Lee <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 12:21 pm, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
On Jan 28, 4:06 am, Qadosh Stephanos <qadosh.stepha...@yahoo.ca>
wrote:
A double hypocrite. Using the words of your own enemies to attract.
Deceitful beyond scriptures. Shame on you. Treasonous beyond words.
A double agent of fallen angels. A smooth talker of Paul's Godspel.
Shame on you.
Mat 16:6 And =D7=99=D7=94=D7=95=D7=A9=D7=A2 said to them, =E2=80=9CMin=
d! And beware of the leaven of
the Pharisees and the Sadducees.=E2=80=9D
Read the scriptures my friend and you will find that I am not afraid
of the truth that sets me free, only the leaven of the Pharisee and I
have the eye to know the difference.
1Ti 6:12 Fight the good fight of the belief, lay hold on everlasting
life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good
confession before many witnesses.
Words encouraging us to confess our faith and fight the good fight are=
hardly ones I'd be ashamed of.
Paul is talking about his own false gospel he's fighting to maintain;
I don't know how you could consider that fighting the "good fight".
You'll fight for Paul, but not for Messiah.
You are mistaken to think that Paul is
my enemy
Are you surprised anyone, including me, was mistaken about this (that
you recognized Paul as being the enemy of the Messiah's followers and
believers) when it's what you've led us to believe?
and I have found it better to focus on the truth.
Sounds more like you're focusing on Paul's lie which you call "The
Job" to "fight the good fight".
Pro 31:21 She is not afraid of snow for her household, For all her
household is dressed in scarlet.
The fact is that if all I am doing is preaching a negative message
then I am not keeping true to the spirit of the Good News my friend:
Mat 28:19 =E2=80=9CTherefore, go and make taught ones of all the natio=
ns,
immersing them in the Name of the Father and of the Son and of the Set=
-
apart Spirit,
The Job is preaching the Good News, not being afraid of some defeated
enemy.
God didn't give *anyone* "The Job" of perpetuating lies by silence or
by any other means.
I've seen most Christian churches are Pauline almost exclusive of
preaching any other part of the NT and also ignoring the OT.
It's a mistake to use even the parts of Paul's writings where he isn't
threatening not to spare them or to wield the sword on them, as Paul
used words like love, etc. to con people into believing he preached
the gospel of Christ.
So you're either posting his con or his threats when you post Paul's
words.
It makes me sick to read the following from Paul:
1Ti 6:12 Fight the good fight of the belief, lay hold on everlasting
life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good
confession before many witnesses.
Fight the good fight? With swords against believers (Romans 13)?? "of
the belief" - the beliefs of Paul.
Rom 13:4-5 "For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if
thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in
vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon
him that doeth evil.Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for
wrath, but also for conscience sake."
And yes, Paul is speaking of himself as a minister here as he uses the
same Greek word for minister here as he does in Col. 1:24-25: " the
church: Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of
God which is given to me for you, to fulfill the word of God".
And what is evil in Paul's eyes? : 2 Cor. 13:2-3 "I told you before,
and foretell you, as if I were present, the second time; and being
absent now I write to them which heretofore have sinned, and to all
other, that, if I come again, I will not spare: Since ye seek a proof
of Christ speaking in me".
The Messiah spoke of people like Paul:
Mat 11:12 And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom
of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
There were violent evil people trying to obliterate the gospel of the
Messiah, and Paul was the most successful among them.
When I first got
started sharing that message is when my whole conflict with Debra
began.. it was a crucial time in my life. I figured out something on
the way... People don't want to know the truth. Your trying to teach
advanced religion to a crowd that is simple minded.
I don't believe that the crowd of people reading these threads are
"simple minded"; they've been told a lie, which they believed and
which silence perpetuates.
Isa 38:18 =E2=80=9CFor the grave does not thank You, nor death praise You;=
those who go down to the pit do not watch for Your truth. 19 =E2=80=9CThe
living, the living =E2=80=93 he is praising You, as I do this day. A fathe=
r
makes known Your truth to his children.
As your quote says, someone who loves, like a father, makes known
God's truth to God's children, which is a manner of praising God, but
you've decided you're going to keep quiet about what you believe to be
the truth?
The logical conclusion of what you've decided (which is, don't impress
upon Pauline Christians that you believe Paul to be a false teacher
and false apostle so that you can 'keep the peace', a false peace) is
to hide from the Jewish posters that you believe in the Messiah, and
to hide from atheists that you believe in God so you can be 'at peace'
with them and personally accepted by them.
Most people are here to explain and debate why they believe what they
do. That is honorable, even when they may be wrong. I can respect
people like Suzanne (who ignores the odd aspects of it and accepts
Paul because his writings are in the biblical canon), or Libertarius
(who's an atheist), or Mark T (who doesn't believe the Messiah was God
incarnate) because they honestly believe they are right, although they
know I disagree with them on certain issues. To hide what one believes
is not the purpose of a debate forum like this or other religious
groups on Usenet.
People that seek the truth will have it revealed to them, just as it
was revealed to you. In the mean time we have a more important
mission and it's really come down to this thought...
Do we spend all our energy preaching the Bad News in that Christians
have become poisoned by paganism and false teachers or do we spend our
time trying to reach lost souls for =D7=99=D7=94=D7=95=D7=94?
I don't see how you're going to reach any lost souls by appearing
wishy-washy and/or insincere. People can see through platitudes.
Shalom,
Snow
Reputation is what men and women think of us; character is what God
and angels know of us.
Thomas Paine
I wonder what God and the angels think of putting one's own comfort
and reputation ahead of spreading the gospel of truth.
Matt. 11:12 the Messiah says, "And from the days of John the Baptist
until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent
take it by force".
.
|
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| User: "guardian Snow" |
|
| Title: Re: Good News (gospel of truth of Messiah) or Bad News (lying gospelof Paul) - Which do we have the integrity to teach? |
28 Jan 2008 06:43:46 PM |
|
|
On Jan 29, 10:01 am, Linda Lee <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
I wonder what God and the angels think of putting one's own comfort
and reputation ahead of spreading the gospel of truth.
Matt. 11:12 the Messiah says, "And from the days of John the Baptist
until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent
take it by force".
On the contrary... what you see as me putting my comfort and
reputation ahead of truth is actually the reverse to me. I see
putting the Good News before my own beliefs and not fueling the
division that already is caused by Paul.
I have stated my opinions and where we disagree is not on whether or
not he is a false apostle but rather... if we should obsess over the
issue to the exclusion of preaching the truth.
Fact: The majority of Christians believe Paul is an apostle of Jesus
Christ and you will not be able to attend any congregation without
hearing him preached.
Jer 9:3 =E2=80=9CAnd they bend their tongue like a bow. Falsehood, and not
truth, prevails on the earth. For they proceed from evil to evil, and
they have not known Me,=E2=80=9D declares =D7=99=D7=94=D7=95=D7=94.
It's not about making peace with a lie. It's about excepting the fact
that the truth will prevail in the hearts and minds of those who
believe in =D7=99=D7=94=D7=95=D7=A9=D7=A2 Messiah. That regardless of what=
Paul was he is an
apostle to some and will lead people to the Good News and that will
point them back to the prophets and Moses...
Joh 3:19 =E2=80=9CAnd this is the judgment, that the light has come into the=
world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light, for their
works were wicked.
By darkness some will see the light of truth and it is not my job to
strive with the Eickelberry's, Pastor Daves or even Linda Lee's and
run around calling everybody a false prophet. If this was the case
I'd have a long negative list of false prophets and I'd spend the rest
of my life sending emails to all of them...
I tell you it's become a dark obsession of yours that you need to
release and trust in =D7=99=D7=94=D7=95=D7=A9=D7=A2.
Joh 3:20 =E2=80=9CFor everyone who is practising evil matters hates the ligh=
t
and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. 21
=E2=80=9CBut the one doing the truth comes to the light, so that his works a=
re
clearly seen, that they have been wrought in Elohim.=E2=80=9D
Trust that from inside there own darkness they will see the light of
faith and be guided by the set apart spirit of Elohim.
What you see as me sacrificing my virtues, I see as putting aside my
own beliefs so that I can reach out with the truth and like so many
other people on here.. we to disagree on what it is we need to be
preaching.
Joh 3:27 Yoh=CC=A3anan answered and said, =E2=80=9CNo man is able to receive=
any
matter unless it is given to him from the heaven.
Instead of attempting to shove the matter down peoples throats, except
the fact that people aren't ready for the truth and wait patently
until they are. It's the revelation I received a while back that
while a few would have the truth, the majority can't except it.
The fact is that if I was only concerned with "reputation and
comfort"... then I would just say I agree with you and when it comes
to this obsession over a title, I'm telling you it's futile. I
challenge you to examine the fruits of this labor within your own
self.. are you leading people to the Messiah or fueling speculation
that the scriptures are all a lie?
Mat 7:16 =E2=80=9CBy their fruits you shall know them. Are grapes gathered
from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
Does it bring you joy and comfort to spend your time in endless
debates about the validity of the title of Paul?
Plant a few figs instead of thistles.. spread the Good News and wait
till you believe somebody is ready for those deeper understandings
because what your teaching is advanced theology to grammar school
students as an example.
Ecc 1:2 =E2=80=9CFutility! Futility!=E2=80=9D says Qoheleth. =E2=80=9CFutili=
ty, futility, all
is futile!=E2=80=9D
Ecc 1:13 And I set my heart to seek and search out by wisdom
concerning all that has been done under the heavens; this evil task
Elohim has given to the sons of man, to be humbled by it. 14 I have
seen all the works that are done under the sun. And see, all was
futile and feeding on wind.
Shalom,
Snow
A round man cannot be expected to fit in a square hole right away. He
must have time to modify his shape.
Mark Twain
.
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| User: "Linda Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: Good News (gospel of truth of Messiah) or Bad News (lying gospelof Paul) -- Which do we have the integrity to teach? |
28 Jan 2008 08:19:55 PM |
|
|
On Jan 28, 7:43=C2=A0pm, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
On Jan 29, 10:01 am, Linda Lee <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
I wonder what God and the angels think of putting one's own comfort
and reputation ahead of spreading the gospel of truth.
Matt. 11:12 the Messiah says, "And from the days of John the Baptist
until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent
take it by force".
On the contrary... what you see as me putting my comfort and
reputation ahead of truth is actually the reverse to me. =C2=A0I see
putting the Good News before my own beliefs and not fueling the
division that already is caused by Paul.
I have stated my opinions and where we disagree is not on whether or
not he is a false apostle but rather... if we should obsess over the
issue to the exclusion of preaching the truth.
I do not obsess over Paul to the exclusion of preaching the gospel of
truth of the Messiah; in fact, I demonstrate the differences between
what they taught.
Fact: The majority of Christians believe Paul is an apostle of Jesus
Christ and you will not be able to attend any congregation without
hearing him preached.
Fact: The majority of Christians have a different view than the
Messiah on almost every biblical subject (angels, obedience, works,
etc. etc.) because they rely on Paul's understanding of such and
ignore what the Messiah taught.
Jer 9:3 =E2=80=9CAnd they bend their tongue like a bow. Falsehood, and not=
truth, prevails on the earth. For they proceed from evil to evil, and
they have not known Me,=E2=80=9D declares =D7=99=D7=94=D7=95=D7=94.
That is describing telling the truth, which I do about Paul, not about
hiding a lie and proceeding from evil to evil in professing Pauline
doctrine.
It's not about making peace with a lie. =C2=A0It's about excepting the fac=
t
that the truth will prevail in the hearts and minds of those who
believe in =C2=A0=D7=99=D7=94=D7=95=D7=A9=D7=A2 Messiah. =C2=A0That regard=
less of what Paul was he is an
apostle to some and will lead people to the Good News and that will
point them back to the prophets and Moses...
Joh 3:19 =E2=80=9CAnd this is the judgment, that the light has come into t=
he
world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light, for their
works were wicked.
You're seeing everything backwards apparently. The Messiah is the
Great Light.
You are saying you're going to promote the darkness of Paul's lie
because people hate the light of the gospel of the Messiah.
This is describing the Messiah (not Paul and his other gospel):
Mat 4:16 The people which sat in darkness saw great light; and to
them which sat in the region and shadow of death light is sprung up.
The Messiah said in 5:15 "Neither do men light a candle, and put it
under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all
that are in the house." But this is what you prefer to do, hide the
light."
In Matt. 10:24-27 the Messiah said, "The disciple is not above his
master, nor the servant above his lord. It is enough for the disciple
that he be as his master, and the servant as his lord. If they have
called the master of the house Beelzebub, how much more shall they
call them of his household? Fear them not therefore: for there is
nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not
be known. What I tell you in darkness, that speak ye in light: and
what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon the housetops".
The Messiah said in Matt. 10:27 "What I tell you in darkness, that
speak ye in light: and what ye hear in the ear, that preach ye upon
the housetops."
Why don't you want to do that? Because Paul said it wasn't necessary?
Because Paul is accepted? You've made it clear you refuse to obey the
Messiah because Paul's disciples might call you Beelzebub.
By darkness some will see the light of truth and it is not my job to
strive with the Eickelberry's, Pastor Daves or even Linda Lee's and
run around calling everybody a false prophet. =C2=A0If this was the case
I'd have a long negative list of false prophets and I'd spend the rest
of my life sending emails to all of them...
Matt. 6:23 the Messiah said, "But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body
shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be
darkness, how great is that darkness!" That is what you're proposing
you prefer to do, turn the light into darkness.
I tell you it's become a dark obsession of yours that you need to
release and trust in =D7=99=D7=94=D7=95=D7=A9=D7=A2.
Matt. 16:23 the Messiah said, "Get thee behind me, Satan: thou art an
offense unto me: for thou savorest not the things that be of God, but
those that be of men." You've made that very clear.
Joh 3:20 =E2=80=9CFor everyone who is practising evil matters hates the li=
ght
and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed. 21
=E2=80=9CBut the one doing the truth comes to the light, so that his works=
are
clearly seen, that they have been wrought in Elohim.=E2=80=9D
Trust that from inside there own darkness they will see the light of
faith and be guided by the set apart spirit of Elohim.
What you see as me sacrificing my virtues, I see as putting aside my
own beliefs so that I can reach out with the truth and like so many
other people on here.. we to disagree on what it is we need to be
preaching.
So be it. Preach the darkness.
Joh 3:27 Yoh=CC=A3anan answered and said, =E2=80=9CNo man is able to recei=
ve any
matter unless it is given to him from the heaven.
Instead of attempting to shove the matter down peoples throats, except
the fact that people aren't ready for the truth and wait patently
until they are. =C2=A0
May I remind you again, this is a debate newsgroup? WHAT are you
doing here if you don't want to debate?
It's the revelation I received a while back that
while a few would have the truth, the majority can't except it.
Those like yourself. (And the word is accept; 'except' has a totally
different meaning and you've used 'except' a lot this week.) Your
revelation was from Satan.
The fact is that if I was only concerned with "reputation and
comfort"... then I would just say I agree with you and when it comes
to this obsession over a title, I'm telling you it's futile. =C2=A0I
challenge you to examine the fruits of this labor within your own
self.. are you leading people to the Messiah or fueling speculation
that the scriptures are all a lie?
Your preaching Paul makes Christianity look like a lie. The teachings
of the anointed one, the Christ, are not a lie.
Mat 7:16 =E2=80=9CBy their fruits you shall know them. Are grapes gathered=
from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
Like the thorn in Paul's side?
Does it bring you joy and comfort to spend your time in endless
debates about the validity of the title of Paul?
No it does not. And again you make it clear your own popularity and
comfort is more important to you than the truth of God.
Plant a few figs instead of thistles.. spread the Good News and wait
till you believe somebody is ready for those deeper understandings
because what your teaching is advanced theology to grammar school
students as an example.
Quit insulting everyone reading this thread; they aren't comparable to
grammar school students.
Ecc 1:2 =E2=80=9CFutility! Futility!=E2=80=9D says Qoheleth. =E2=80=9CFuti=
lity, futility, all
is futile!=E2=80=9D
Ecc 1:13 And I set my heart to seek and search out by wisdom
concerning all that has been done under the heavens; this evil task
Elohim has given to the sons of man, to be humbled by it. 14 I have
seen all the works that are done under the sun. And see, all was
futile and feeding on wind.
All is vanity that is of the world (things like reconciling yourself
with that lovely Pauline doctrine). God's word as preached by the
Messiah is not futility or vanity.
You should have continued reading what the Preacher had to say in
Ecclesiastes through to the ending chapter:
Ecc 12:8 Vanity of vanities, saith the preacher; all is vanity.
Ecc 12:9 And moreover, ****because the preacher was wise, he still
taught the people knowledge;**** yea, he gave good heed, and sought
out, and set in order many proverbs.
Ecc 12:10 The preacher sought to find out acceptable words: and that
which was written was upright, even words of truth.
Ecc 12:11 The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened
by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd.
Ecc 12:12 And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making
many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the
flesh.
Ecc 12:13 Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God,
and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.
Ecc 12:14 For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every
secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
You're being very unwise, and your works will be judged, regardless of
what the false apostle Paul has to say on the matter.
Rev. 21:8 the resurrected Messiah said, "But the fearful, and
unbelieving, and abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and
sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the
lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second
death".
.
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| User: "guardian Snow" |
|
| Title: Re: Good News (gospel of truth of Messiah) or Bad News (lying gospelof Paul) -- Which do we have the integrity to teach? |
28 Jan 2008 10:14:35 PM |
|
|
On Jan 29, 1:19 pm, Linda Lee <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
On Jan 28, 7:43 pm, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
On Jan 29, 10:01 am, Linda Lee <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
I wonder what God and the angels think of putting one's own comfort
and reputation ahead of spreading the gospel of truth.
Matt. 11:12 the Messiah says, "And from the days of John the Baptist
until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent
take it by force".
On the contrary... what you see as me putting my comfort and
reputation ahead of truth is actually the reverse to me. I see
putting the Good News before my own beliefs and not fueling the
division that already is caused by Paul.
I have stated my opinions and where we disagree is not on whether or
not he is a false apostle but rather... if we should obsess over the
issue to the exclusion of preaching the truth.
I do not obsess over Paul to the exclusion of preaching the gospel of
truth of the Messiah; in fact, I demonstrate the differences between
what they taught.
You obsess and on this point we will agree to disagree but I hope you
understand that I still admire you even if your post are angry and
accusing.
I respect that we have a different vision of things and what you see
as me "preaching Paul" as you say it... is just me quoting the
passages I do agree with.
You can't say that every verse Paul wrote is poison. There is truth
and if I believe it to be true then I feel in my heart that it adds
validity to those who subscribe to his belief. Call me what you
want...
This isn't a debate. It's an explanation of understanding and while we
both agree that many things Paul stated are wrong, as do most modern
people... It's no different then quoting Mark Twain.
Shalom,
Snow
Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest.
Mark Twain
Pink Floyd
The Wall part 3
I don't need no walls around me.
And I don't need no drugs to calm me.
I have seen the writing on the wall.
Don't think I need any thing at all.
No. Don't think I need anything at all.
All in all it was all just the bricks in the wall.
All in all it was all just the bricks in the wall.
.
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| User: "Linda Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: Good News (gospel of truth of Messiah) or Bad News (lying gospelof Paul) - Which do we have the integrity to teach? |
28 Jan 2008 11:50:28 PM |
|
|
On Jan 28, 11:14=A0pm, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
On Jan 29, 1:19 pm, Linda Lee <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
On Jan 28, 7:43 pm, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
On Jan 29, 10:01 am, Linda Lee <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
I wonder what God and the angels think of putting one's own comfort
and reputation ahead of spreading the gospel of truth.
Matt. 11:12 the Messiah says, "And from the days of John the Baptist=
until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent
take it by force".
On the contrary... what you see as me putting my comfort and
reputation ahead of truth is actually the reverse to me. =A0I see
putting the Good News before my own beliefs and not fueling the
division that already is caused by Paul.
I have stated my opinions and where we disagree is not on whether or
not he is a false apostle but rather... if we should obsess over the
issue to the exclusion of preaching the truth.
I do not obsess over Paul to the exclusion of preaching the gospel of
truth of the Messiah; in fact, I demonstrate the differences between
what they taught.
You obsess
That is your opinion and condemnation.
and on this point we will agree to disagree but I hope you
understand that I still admire you even if your post are angry and
accusing.
I don't believe that, and my post was neither angry nor accusing.
Those scriptures I posted applied to what you've decided to do, and if
you noticed, they were all the Messiah's words, which you ironically
accused me of ignoring. I say "ironically" because this most recent
post shows you have chosen to ignore his words, even when they are
pointed out to you.
(It appears you're still operating on what you've learned from Paul in
the past: 1 Cor. 10:33 "Even as I please all men in all things, not
seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be
saved". This fits your explanation very well, but Paul is a liar, and
his gospel, which shifts depending upon the beliefs of the people to
whom he's speaking, will not save anyone.)
I respect that we have a different vision of things and what you see
as me "preaching Paul" as you say it... is just me quoting the
passages I do agree with.
That's preaching Paul's gospel and thereby validating all of the words
of the person you just called (see above) a "false apostle".
You can't say that every verse Paul wrote is poison. =A0There is truth
and if I believe it to be true then I feel in my heart that it adds
validity to those who subscribe to his belief. Call me what you
want...
This isn't a debate. It's an explanation of understanding and while we
both agree that many things Paul stated are wrong, as do most modern
people... It's no different then quoting Mark Twain.
Mark Twain did not take over the church of God, did he? So I don't see
the analogy.
Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest.
Mark Twain
You should take Twain's advice in this regard.
You are hiding the enlightenment you've claimed to have gained, and
choose to ignore the wisdom in a book of the Bible you quoted to
support your choice to believe it is futile to expose the truth --
Ecc. 12:8-9 "Vanity of vanities, saith the preacher; all is vanity.
And moreover, ****because the preacher was wise, he still taught the
people knowledge;****
God gave you the revelation that Paul was false, and you soon decided
to cast it away and label revealing it as evil i.e. obsessive and
divisive, when it is Paul's gospel that has divided the church and his
followers who obsessively follow him, and it is Paul's gospel that
prompts many to believe the New Testament is false and leave the
church altogether.
Actually, I thought you were too easily convinced about Paul, sending
me all those e-mails showing how you'd seen the light that he was
false. Now you fear it is causing the followers of Paul to become
upset with you, and you are offended by this.
The Messiah said in Matt. 13:18-21 "Hear ye therefore the parable of
the sower. When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and
understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away
that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by
the way side. But he that received the seed into stony places, the
same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; Yet
hath he not root in himself, but endureth for a while: for when
tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he
is offended."
I'm not going to bother posting any more scripture relating to this; I
don't believe you read it, and see you've already made up your mind.
There's no need for any further discussion on the matter.
.
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| User: "Linda Lee" |
|
| Title: Re: Good News (gospel of truth of Messiah) or Bad News (lying gospelof Paul) - Which do we have the integrity to teach? |
29 Jan 2008 12:10:38 AM |
|
|
On Jan 29, 12:50=A0am, Linda Lee <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
On Jan 28, 11:14=A0pm, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
On Jan 29, 1:19 pm, Linda Lee <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
On Jan 28, 7:43 pm, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
On Jan 29, 10:01 am, Linda Lee <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
I wonder what God and the angels think of putting one's own comfor=
t
and reputation ahead of spreading the gospel of truth.
Matt. 11:12 the Messiah says, "And from the days of John the Bapti=
st
until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violen=
t
take it by force".
On the contrary... what you see as me putting my comfort and
reputation ahead of truth is actually the reverse to me. =A0I see
putting the Good News before my own beliefs and not fueling the
division that already is caused by Paul.
I have stated my opinions and where we disagree is not on whether or=
not he is a false apostle but rather... if we should obsess over the=
issue to the exclusion of preaching the truth.
I do not obsess over Paul to the exclusion of preaching the gospel of
truth of the Messiah; in fact, I demonstrate the differences between
what they taught.
You obsess
That is your opinion and condemnation.
and on this point we will agree to disagree but I hope you
understand that I still admire you even if your post are angry and
accusing.
I don't believe that, and my post was neither angry nor accusing.
Those scriptures I posted applied to what you've decided to do, and if
you noticed, they were all the Messiah's words, which you ironically
accused me of ignoring. I say "ironically" because this most recent
post shows you have chosen to ignore his words, even when they are
pointed out to you.
(It appears you're still operating on what you've learned from Paul in
the past: 1 Cor. 10:33 "Even as I please all men in all things, not
seeking mine own profit, but the profit of many, that they may be
saved". This fits your explanation very well, but Paul is a liar, and
his gospel, which shifts depending upon the beliefs of the people to
whom he's speaking, will not save anyone.)
I respect that we have a different vision of things and what you see
as me "preaching Paul" as you say it... is just me quoting the
passages I do agree with.
That's preaching Paul's gospel and thereby validating all of the words
of the person you just called (see above) a "false apostle".
You can't say that every verse Paul wrote is poison. =A0There is truth
and if I believe it to be true then I feel in my heart that it adds
validity to those who subscribe to his belief. Call me what you
want...
This isn't a debate. It's an explanation of understanding and while we
both agree that many things Paul stated are wrong, as do most modern
people... It's no different then quoting Mark Twain.
Mark Twain did not take over the church of God, did he? So I don't see
the analogy.
Always do right. This will gratify some people and astonish the rest.
Mark Twain
You should take Twain's advice in this regard.
You are hiding the enlightenment you've claimed to have gained, and
choose to ignore the wisdom in a book of the Bible you quoted to
support your choice to believe it is futile to expose the truth --
Ecc. 12:8-9 "Vanity of vanities, saith the preacher; all is vanity.
And moreover, ****because the preacher was wise, he still taught the
people knowledge;****
God gave you the revelation that Paul was false, and you soon decided
to cast it away and label revealing it as evil i.e. obsessive and
divisive, when it is Paul's gospel that has divided the church and his
followers who obsessively follow him, and it is Paul's gospel that
prompts many to believe the New Testament is false and leave the
church altogether.
Actually, I thought you were too easily convinced about Paul, sending
me all those e-mails showing how you'd seen the light that he was
false. Now you fear it is causing the followers of Paul to become
upset with you, and you are offended by this.
The Messiah said in Matt. 13:18-21 "Hear ye therefore the parable of
the sower. When any one heareth the word of the kingdom, and
understandeth it not, then cometh the wicked one, and catcheth away
that which was sown in his heart. This is he which received seed by
the way side. But he that received the seed into stony places, the
same is he that heareth the word, and anon with joy receiveth it; Yet
hath he not root in himself, but endureth for a while: for when
tribulation or persecution ariseth because of the word, by and by he
is offended."
I'm not going to bother posting any more scripture relating to this; I
don't believe you read it, and see you've already made up your mind.
There's no need for any further discussion on the matter.- Hide quoted tex=
t -
- Show quoted text -
P.S. One more thing: you act as if I would drop the matter of Paul,
the problem would be solved and everyone would be happy. Do you really
think that Paul is not preached to me every day that I post here, even
when the subject is not that Paul is a false apostle? Well, he is, and
I can't agree with his views on any subject because they don't agree
with the Messiah's words. And there are actually many people here (Rob
Strom, Padraic, Diana BB, Qadosh, Debra, Zadok, to name a few more who
do not accept Paul).
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| User: "Qadosh Stephanos" |
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| Title: Re: Good News (gospel of truth of Messiah) or Bad News (lying gospel of Paul) - Which do we have the integrity to teach? |
02 Feb 2008 08:04:47 AM |
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On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 22:10:38 -0800 (PST), Linda Lee
<lindagirl444@juno.com> wrote:
P.S. One more thing: you act as if I would drop the matter of Paul,
the problem would be solved and everyone would be happy. Do you really
think that Paul is not preached to me every day that I post here, even
when the subject is not that Paul is a false apostle? Well, he is, and
I can't agree with his views on any subject because they don't agree
with the Messiah's words. And there are actually many people here (Rob
Strom, Padraic, Diana BB, Qadosh, Debra, Zadok, to name a few more who
do not accept Paul).
Diana BB (aka Diana B) has returned from Australian willies outback.
There is also "woz", "Peter of Canada", and "Saint Zombie" (aka me).
Fraudulent Paul. Historical hideousness. Subversion is the expected.
.
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| User: "Qadosh Stephanos" |
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| Title: Re: Good News (gospel of truth of Messiah) or Bad News (lying gospel of Paul) -- Which do we have the integrity to teach? |
01 Feb 2008 07:38:44 PM |
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On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 20:14:35 -0800 (PST), guardian Snow
<snowpheonix@eck.net.au> wrote:
Pink Floyd
The Wall part 3
I don't need no walls around me.
And I don't need no drugs to calm me.
I have seen the writing on the wall.
Don't think I need any thing at all.
No. Don't think I need anything at all.
All in all it was all just the bricks in the wall.
All in all it was all just the bricks in the wall.
The gospel of Pink Floyd?
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| User: "Qadosh Stephanos" |
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| Title: Re: Good News (gospel of truth of Messiah) or Bad News (lying gospel of Paul) - Which do we have the integrity to teach? |
02 Feb 2008 12:57:29 PM |
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On Mon, 28 Jan 2008 15:01:54 -0800 (PST), Linda Lee
<lindagirl444@juno.com> wrote:
I wonder what God and the angels think of putting one's own comfort
and reputation ahead of spreading the gospel of truth
Read your own words.
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| User: "Linda Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Good News or Bad News, what do we teach? |
28 Jan 2008 12:43:31 AM |
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On Jan 27, 11:35=A0pm, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
Reputation is what men and women think of us; character is what God
and angels know of us.
Thomas Paine-
I just noticed your Thomas Paine quote as I posted my reply, and it
seems to me you care more for your reputation among men than anything
else, and I can't imagine that can help build good character.
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| User: "Qadosh Stephanos" |
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| Title: Re: Good News or Bad News, what do we teach? |
04 Feb 2008 10:19:42 PM |
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On Sun, 27 Jan 2008 22:43:31 -0800 (PST), Linda Lee
<lindagirl444@juno.com> wrote:
On Jan 27, 11:35 pm, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
Reputation is what men and women think of us; character is what God
and angels know of us.
Thomas Paine-
I just noticed your Thomas Paine quote as I posted my reply, and it
seems to me you care more for your reputation among men than anything
else, and I can't imagine that can help build good character.
Acts 4:13 (ASV)
Now when they beheld the boldness of Peter and John, and had perceived
that they were unlearned and ignorant men, they marvelled; and they
took knowledge of them, that they had ---> been <--- with Jesus.
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| User: "Linda Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Good News or Bad News, what do we teach? |
28 Jan 2008 12:39:20 AM |
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On Jan 27, 11:35=C2=A0pm, guardian Snow <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
On Jan 28, 2:23 pm, Linda Lee <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote:
I've seen most Christian churches are Pauline almost exclusive of
preaching any other part of the NT and also ignoring the OT.
It's a mistake to use even the parts of Paul's writings where he isn't
threatening not to spare them or to wield the sword on them, as Paul
used words like love, etc. to con people into believing he preached
the gospel of Christ.
So you're either posting his con or his threats when you post Paul's
words.
It makes me sick to read =C2=A0the following from Paul:
1Ti 6:12 Fight the good fight of the belief, lay hold on everlasting
life, to which you were also called and have confessed the good
confession before many witnesses.
Fight the good fight? =C2=A0With swords against believers (Romans 13)?? =
"of
the belief" - the beliefs of Paul.
Rom 13:4-5 "For he is the minister of God to thee for good. But if
thou do that which is evil, be afraid; for he beareth not the sword in
vain: for he is the minister of God, a revenger to execute wrath upon
him that doeth evil.Wherefore ye must needs be subject, not only for
wrath, but also for conscience sake."
And yes, Paul is speaking of himself as a minister here as he uses the
same Greek word for minister here as he does in Col. 1:24-25: =C2=A0" th=
e
church: Whereof I am made a minister, according to the dispensation of
God which is given to me for you, to fulfill the word of God".
And what is evil in Paul's eyes? : 2 Cor. 13:2-3 "I told you before,
and foretell you, as if I were present, the second time; and being
absent now I write to them which heretofore have sinned, and to all
other, that, if I come again, I will not spare: =C2=A0Since ye seek a pr=
oof
of Christ speaking in me".
The Messiah spoke of people like Paul:
Mat 11:12 =C2=A0And from the days of John the Baptist until now the king=
dom
of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.
There were violent evil people trying to obliterate the gospel of the
Messiah, and Paul was the most successful among them.
Your my sister, you know I have a deep respect for the insights you
share with me. I believe you also know that I think:
=C2=A0Isa 14:12 =E2=80=9CHow you have fallen from the heavens, O H=C4=95l=
=C4=95l, son of the
morning! You have been cut down to the ground, you who laid low the
gentiles!
speaks of the false apostle Paul. =C2=A0Read that passage carefully becaus=
e
you find that he's been defeated already.
It's not about Paul. We've already discussed your belief that Paul is
"Lucifer", and I provided scriptures showing that NT references to
Lucifer/Satan/the Devil cannot apply to the man Paul.
I think that entire chapter speaks about Paul. =C2=A0When I first got
started sharing that message is when my whole conflict with Debra
began.. it was a crucial time in my life. =C2=A0I figured out something on=
the way... =C2=A0People don't want to know the truth. =C2=A0Your trying to=
teach
advanced religion to a crowd that is simple minded.
Isa 38:18 =E2=80=9CFor the grave does not thank You, nor death praise You;=
those who go down to the pit do not watch for Your truth. 19 =E2=80=9CThe
living, the living =E2=80=93 he is praising You, as I do this day. A fathe=
r
makes known Your truth to his children.
People that seek the truth will have it revealed to them, just as it
was revealed to you. =C2=A0In the mean time we have a more important
mission and it's really come down to this thought...
Do we spend all our energy preaching the Bad News in that Christians
have become poisoned by paganism and false teachers or do we spend our
time trying to reach lost souls for =D7=99=D7=94=D7=95=D7=94?
The point is that there are those of us who understand that Paul
shouldn't have been canonized in scriptures but the fact still remains
that people ignore the warnings from the prophets, =C2=A0=D7=99=D7=94=D7=
=95=D7=A9=D7=A2 Messiah and
even Peter. =C2=A0They see it in a different set of eyes but even Peter an=
d
the Messiah did warn us but they did not forbid and seal them.
Joh 6:27 =E2=80=9CDo not labour for the food that is perishing, but for th=
e
food that is remaining to everlasting life, which the Son of Ad=CC=B1am
shall give you, for the Father, Elohim, has set His seal on Him.=E2=80=9D
Joh 6:35 And =D7=99=D7=94=D7=95=D7=A9=D7=A2 said to them, =E2=80=9CI am th=
e bread of life. He who comes
to Me shall not get hungry at all, and he who believes in Me shall not
get thirsty at all.
It is our job to give the bread and if we accept that Paul is just a
tool to be used for leading people back to =D7=99=D7=94=D7=95=D7=A9=D7=A2,=
it becomes a case of
preaching the Good News and not just vanity to show we are right about
what we know of our evil apostle.
You can label it vanity if you want; I label it deception to do
otherwise. We're here to share knowledge, not hide it. This isn't a
popularity contest; it's a debate forum.
And Pauline Christian churches use Paul's writings to dominate the
people who attend their church. You want to help support that? Do you
know how many women stay in dangerous situations trying to follow
Paul's devious dogma? Do you know how many men, women, and children
are led to hell by following Paul? Remember Jim Jones? I'll bet he
preached Paul right before he beat those people, and right before he
killed those 900 people.
Let me show you an example...
(KJV) Act 14:14 =C2=A0Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of=
,
they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,
Now the majority of people will read this and believe that the
apostles are Barnabas and Paul. =C2=A0They believe Paul then rebukes these=
people for calling him a God.
Act 14:12 =C2=A0And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius,
because he was the chief speaker.
We both know that Paul wasn't a apostle... So we know that they are
not speaking of Paul renting his clothes. =C2=A0It also goes that Paul did=
not rebuke the crowd for saying he was a God. =C2=A0The apostles did... an=
d
thats why we see that Paul got stoned!
Keeping knowledge to yourself is exactly what the rabbis and popes and
priests have done and is the reason why people are led around by the
nose and believe exactly what they've been allowed to know.
Act 14:19 =C2=A0And there came thither certain Jews from Antioch and
Iconium, who persuaded the people, and, having stoned Paul, drew him
out of the city, supposing he had been dead.
He wasn't stoned for rebuking a crowd and being a great Christian.. He
was stoned for claiming to be a God. =C2=A0But here's the point... We can
see that but the vast majority will see that Paul is being martyred
and persecuted..
Now do I spend endless days trying to persuade people that I'm right..
Or do I have confidence in the knowledge given to me and move on to
sharing the Good News of forgiveness of sins and teaching the truth?
By leading them to believe that you accept Paul and believe he
preached the same gospel as the true apostles of the Messiah? That's
deceptive. But 'if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen',
as the saying goes. People aren't as stupid as you might think and
many will notice if your beliefs seem to vary depending on the beliefs
of whomever it is to whom you're speaking. You can't delete your posts
on Usenet.
Psa 122:6 Pray for the peace of Yerushalayim, Let those who love You
be at rest. 7 Peace be within your walls, Rest in your citadels. 8 For
the sake of my brothers and companions, I say, =E2=80=9CPeace be within yo=
u.=E2=80=9D
9 For the sake of the House of =D7=99=D7=94=D7=95=D7=94 our Elohim I seek =
your good.
In the end it comes down to sheer vanity and wrestling to prove what I
know vs. what other people believe and that puts us at a
disadvantage. =C2=A0
So you're on a debate forum, but don't want to debate; you just want
to 'get along' with whomever you're posting to? Don't say "us" because
I don't do anything you're saying. I've been here two years if anyone
wants to check the archives. I'm not going to lead people to believe
something that I don't believe by my silence either, letting them
believe whatever they want about what I think.
I still know and understand what it is I'm dealing with
but I also understand that whats more important to me is preaching the
Good News and not spending endless energy on negative issues that only
put me at odds within my own brothers of faith.
It's not a gospel of peace
You quoted Paul; is his gospel the Good News? Only Paul called his
gospel a "gospel of peace" (Rom. 10:15 & Eph 6:15). Whatever's "more
important" to you than the truth; go ahead.
but a recognition that our Father's way
will prevail over all the lies of Lucifer who has been cast down to
the ground!
Many people will suffer if they're fed lies mixed with truth.
Shalom,
Snow
Reputation is what men and women think of us; character is what God
and angels know of us.
Thomas Paine
I don't believe the gospel of truth can be preached by quoting the
lies of Paul or even by ignoring that Paul preached another gospel
than the Messiah's. That sort of deceptive method of trying to
reconcile good with evil is reminiscent of Paul's own "another gospel"
of "another Jesus" and "another spirit" (II Cor. 11:4).
You cannot serve two masters: Matt. 6:24 the Messiah says, "No man
can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the
other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other".
Paul claims that Christ did not send him to baptize, saying in I Cor.
1:17, =E2=80=9CFor Christ sent me not to baptize, but to preach the gospel=
=E2=80=9D.
Yet the Messiah **commanded HIS apostles** to baptize people in his
name, saying in Matt. 28:19, =E2=80=9CGo ye therefore, and teach all nations=
,
baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the
Holy Ghost=E2=80=9D (Holy Spirit).
If Paul was really an apostle he should have been baptizing any and
all in the manner the Messiah commanded.
And Paul says in I Cor. 1:14-15, "I thank God that I baptized none of
you, but Crispus and Gaius; Lest any should say that I had baptized in
mine own name."
It sounds like he was being accused of baptizing people in the name of
Paul or the name Paul preached - Iesous - especially for his Greek-
speaking Gentile converts, i.e. actually Paul's prisoners since he
admits to lying to them (Rom. 3:7), being crafty and catching them
with guile (II Cor. 12:16 ), threatening not to spare them (II Cor.
13:2), and reminding them he wielded a sword as their minister (Rom.
13:1-5).
Paul lied about never baptizing (except for two people) and baptized
them in the name he preached, which most likely was the Greek name
Iesous and Zeus as 'the father'.
Matt. 3:11 John the Baptist says, =E2=80=9CI indeed baptize you with water
unto repentance: but he that cometh after me is mightier than I, whose
shoes I am not worthy to bear: he shall baptize you with the Holy
Ghost, and with fire=E2=80=9D.
Paul posed as the one greater than John the Baptist who baptizes with
the Holy Ghost and with fire (who would actually be the resurrected
Messiah) as those Paul allegedly baptized with the Holy Ghost then
=E2=80=9Cspake with tongues=E2=80=9D too, as is reported in the following:
Acts 19:1-7 relates that Paul came upon certain disciples of Yeshua`,
and =E2=80=9CHe said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye
believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether
there be any Holy Ghost. And he said unto them, Unto what then were ye
baptized? And they said, Unto John=E2=80=99s baptism. Then said Paul, John
verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the
people, that they should believe on him which should come after him,
that is, on Christ Jesus. When they heard this, they were baptized in
the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon
them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and
prophesied. And all the men were about twelve.=E2=80=9D
Paul baptizing people with the Holy Ghost ("about twelve" of them no
less, and not two as he claims elsewhere) is reminiscent of the true
apostles being baptized with the Holy Spirit following the
resurrection of the Messiah:
Act 2:1-4 says, "And when the day of Pentecost was fully come, they
[the true apostles] were all with one accord in one place. And
suddenly there came a sound from heaven as of a rushing mighty wind,
and it filled all the house where they were sitting. And there
appeared unto them cloven tongues like as of fire, and it sat upon
each of them. And they were all filled with the Holy Ghost, and began
to speak with other tongues, as the Spirit gave them utterance."
Anyone could cast out devils in the name of the Messiah, whether they
were followers or not, but some could not cast out devils in the name
Paul preached:
Acts 19:8-9 concerns Paul relating how he preached for three months to
Ephesian disciples in Ephesus whom John had baptized, but when many
didn=E2=80=99t believe him he left, separating the disciples who believed in=
him from those who rejected him. After Paul left, some of the Jews
(the sons of Sceva) attempted to exorcise evil spirits from people
using the name that Paul had preached to them, and their exorcism
failed miserably causing the possessed person to attack them.
The fact that the sons of Sceva could not cast out demons in the name
Paul preached is very suspect, as those who cast out demons in the
name of Yeshua` did not even have to be followers of the Messiah.
The name that Paul preached could not have been the name of the
Messiah as people were not able to cast out evil spirits using the
name Paul preached.
It had to have been the Gentile version of the Messiah's name, Iesous
Christos, because people who were not followers or disciples of the
Messiah were able to successfully cast out evil spirits in the name of
the Messiah.
Mark 9:38-40 says, =E2=80=9CAnd John answered him, saying, Master, we saw on=
e
casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad
him, because he followeth not us. But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for
there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly
speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our part.=E2=80=9D
Luke 9:49-50 says the same, =E2=80=9CAnd John answered and said, Master, we
saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he
followeth not with us. And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he
that is not against us is for us.=E2=80=9D These unbelievers were able to ca=
st
out demons in the name of Yeshua`. Those who did not follow Yeshua`
were still able to cast out devils using his name, but those who used
the name Paul preached and baptized people with were unable to cast
out devils using the name Paul preached.
Mark 9:38-40 agrees, =E2=80=9CAnd John answered him, saying, Master, we saw
one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we
forbad him, because he followeth not us. But Jesus said, Forbid him
not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can
lightly speak evil of me. For he that is not against us is on our
part.=E2=80=9D Luke 9:49-50 says the same, =E2=80=9CAnd John answered and sa=
id,
Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him,
because he followeth not with us. And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him
not: for he that is not against us is for us.=E2=80=9D
Those who did not follow the Messiah were still able to cast out
devils using his name, but those who used the name Paul preached and
baptized people with were unable to cast out devils using the name
Paul preached.
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: Good News or Bad News, what do we teach? |
28 Jan 2008 08:22:51 AM |
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"Linda Lee" <lindagirl444@juno.com> wrote in message
news:d310dee2-6df2-4c33-9c71-2fbd0477d682@f47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
[snip]
You can label it vanity if you want; I label it deception to do
otherwise. We're here to share knowledge, not hide it. This isn't a
popularity contest; it's a debate forum.
Yes, and it's a debate you lost a long time ago as your scripture twisting
is so ridiculous a third-grader can see through it.
And Pauline Christian churches use Paul's writings to dominate the
people who attend their church. You want to help support that?
LOL
If there is a problem in the churches, it's that they are NOT following
Jesus' and Paul's instructions, and expelling heretics FROM the churches, as
directed...
Do you
know how many women stay in dangerous situations trying to follow
Paul's devious dogma?
ANOTHER lie: The very core of the family is being destroyed by the quickie
divorce and political intrusions into the family, where one offense becomes
the basis of separations and the absconding of one's children.
Christ said that Moses had to give the writ of divorce because of the
hardness of people's hearts, as they couldn't let little offenses go, hold
things in and against each other in a steaming pot of discontent.
Do you know how many men, women, and children
are led to hell by following Paul?
Ridiculous: If anyone is leading people into hell, it's you, teaching people
to bear false witness in the most ridiculous manner.
Remember Jim Jones? I'll bet he
preached Paul right before he beat those people, and right before he
killed those 900 people.
Jim Jones wasn't the result of Paul's theology--he was the result of modern
dispensationalist dogma.
Let me show you an example...
(KJV) Act 14:14 Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of,
they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,
Now the majority of people will read this and believe that the
apostles are Barnabas and Paul. They believe Paul then rebukes these
people for calling him a God.
???
The apostles WERE Barnabas and Paul, and Paul DID rebuke these people for
calling them gods.
Act 14:12 And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius,
because he was the chief speaker.
We both know that Paul wasn't a apostle...
No, you SAY that Paul wasn't an apostle when there were many apostles
documented in the NT as the first generation turned the office of
apostleship over to the next.
So we know that they are
not speaking of Paul renting his clothes.
Anyone with a reading level above the third grade can see that the passage
was about Paul and Barnabas.
It also goes that Paul did
not rebuke the crowd for saying he was a God. The apostles did... and
thats why we see that Paul got stoned!
???
Oh, so now the Apostles were stoning people in violence?
Good Lord, you're lies are getting so twisted now you're contradicting your
own lies with more lies.
Keeping knowledge to yourself is exactly what the rabbis and popes and
priests have done and is the reason why people are led around by the
nose and believe exactly what they've been allowed to know.
Good thing that's not what any of the NT authors did, including Paul.
[snip the rest of the liar's ongoing ludicrous statements]
Ike
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| User: "Linda Lee" |
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| Title: Re: Good News or Bad News, what do we teach? |
28 Jan 2008 04:23:45 PM |
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On Jan 28, 9:22 am, "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr."
<xeickleberrybo...@verizon.net> wrote:
"Linda Lee" <lindagirl...@juno.com> wrote in message
news:d310dee2-6df2-4c33-9c71-2fbd0477d682@f47g2000hsd.googlegroups.com...
[snip]
You can label it vanity if you want; I label it deception to do
otherwise. We're here to share knowledge, not hide it. This isn't a
popularity contest; it's a debate forum.
Yes, and it's a debate you lost a long time ago as your scripture twisting
is so ridiculous a third-grader can see through it.
And Pauline Christian churches use Paul's writings to dominate the
people who attend their church. You want to help support that?
LOL
If there is a problem in the churches, it's that they are NOT following
Jesus' and Paul's instructions, and expelling heretics FROM the churches, as
directed...
Do you
know how many women stay in dangerous situations trying to follow
Paul's devious dogma?
ANOTHER lie: The very core of the family is being destroyed by the quickie
divorce and political intrusions into the family, where one offense becomes
the basis of separations and the absconding of one's children.
Christ said that Moses had to give the writ of divorce because of the
hardness of people's hearts, as they couldn't let little offenses go, hold
things in and against each other in a steaming pot of discontent.
Do you know how many men, women, and children
are led to hell by following Paul?
Ridiculous: If anyone is leading people into hell, it's you, teaching people
to bear false witness in the most ridiculous manner.
Remember Jim Jones? I'll bet he
preached Paul right before he beat those people, and right before he
killed those 900 people.
Jim Jones wasn't the result of Paul's theology--he was the result of modern
dispensationalist dogma.
Guardian Snow wrote the following, so why is it falsely attributed to
me by "lyin' Ike"?
Let me show you an example...
(KJV) Act 14:14 Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of,
they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out,
Now the majority of people will read this and believe that the
apostles are Barnabas and Paul. They believe Paul then rebukes these
peopl | | | | | | | | | |
