| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"rhuff163" |
| Date: |
20 Oct 2004 11:23:27 PM |
| Object: |
An open secret |
Devotional Guide
For the week of October 17, 2004
THE HOLY SPIRIT
An open secret
To Read: Proverbs 28,29
To Know:
".according to the divine office which was given to me for you, to make the
word of God fully known, the mystery hidden for ages and generations but now
made manifest to his saints. To them God chose to make known how great among
the Gentiles are the riches of the glory of this mystery, which is Christ in
you, the hope of glory." (Col.1: 25-27)
Everyone likes a mystery, as novels like Dan Brown's The DaVinci Code prove.
Mystery religions were common in the ancient world. Those who believed were
promised secret knowledge. It was the duty of devotees to the mystery to
keep secret the secrets learned. The Bible has mysteries too. These
mysteries are not meant to be kept secret; rather they are to be revealed.
The mystery of our faith is really no mystery at all.
The Bible reveals deep mysteries that need to be solved in order that we may
live life to the full. For example, the mystery of the trinity. We
experience our being as one person. Multiple personalities are considered to
be a disorder. Mysteriously, God is triune. The one being who made us is
three persons. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one divine being in
which love reigns supreme. Do we desire to be loved and to love? Then study
the love of the Father for the Son and of the Son for the Father, and how
the Holy Spirit sheds this love abroad in our hearts.
It is vitally important that Christians believe in the trinity. Jesus
commands us to love God with all our mind as well as all our heart and
strength. When we study the scriptures we learn that the Holy Spirit submits
to the Father and the Son and therefore reveals them to us. The Holy Spirit
does not send the Father, nor does the Spirit send the Son. The Father and
the Son send the Spirit. The Spirit who comes to us is willingly obeying
both the Father and the Son. The Holy Spirit is in full accord with that
saving purpose of the Father and the Son. The Spirit, because he is in the
life of the believer, will generate in us a willing obedience to both the
Father and the Son as they are revealed in the scriptures of the Old and New
Testament. This is the mystery of our faith, which is an open secret to
faith.
10214$-10214
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| User: "John Ings" |
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| Title: Re: An open secret |
21 Oct 2004 07:31:53 AM |
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On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 04:23:27 GMT, "rhuff163" <rhuff163@cfl.rr.com>
wrote:
The Bible reveals deep mysteries that need to be solved in order that we may
live life to the full. For example, the mystery of the trinity. We
experience our being as one person. Multiple personalities are considered to
be a disorder. Mysteriously, God is triune. The one being who made us is
three persons. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one divine being in
which love reigns supreme.
"Christ, according to the faith, is the second person in the Trinity,
the Father being the first and the Holy Ghost the third. Each of these
three persons is God.
"Christ is his own father and his own son. The Holy Ghost is neither
father nor son, but both. The son was begotten by the father, but
existed before he was begotten -- just the same before as after.
"Christ is just as old as his father, and the father is just as young
as his son. The Holy Ghost proceeded from the Father and Son, but was
equal to the Father and Son before he proceeded, that is to say,
before he existed, but he is of the same age of the other two.
"So, it is declared that the Father is God, and the Son God and the
Holy Ghost God, and that these three Gods make one god.
"According to the celestial multiplication table, once one is three,
and three times one is one, and according to heavenly subtraction if
we take two from three, three are left, The addition is equally
peculiar, if we add two to one we have but one. Each one is equal to
himself and the other two. Nothing ever was, nothing ever can be more
perfectly idiotic and absurd than the dogma of the Trinity.
"Is it possible for a human being, who has been born but once, to
comprehend, or to imagine the existence of three beings, each of whom
is equal to the three?
"Think of one of these beings as the father of one, and think of that
one as half human and all God, and think of the third as having
proceeded from the other two, and then think of all three as one.
Think that after the father begot the son, the father was still alone,
and after the Holy Ghost proceeded from the father and the son, the
father was still alone -- because there never was and never will be
but one god.
"At this point, absurdity having reached its limit, nothing more can
be said except: 'Let us pray.' "
from R.G. Ingersoll's lecture entitled The Foundations Of Faith, Part
IV: The Trinity, pg. 264 (1922 Dresden Edition).
## Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has.
Martin Luther
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| User: "Mike Rhodes" |
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| Title: Re: An open secret |
21 Oct 2004 12:48:43 PM |
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On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 05:31:53 -0700, John Ings <nodamned@spam.org>
wrote:
On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 04:23:27 GMT, "rhuff163" <rhuff163@cfl.rr.com>
wrote:
The Bible reveals deep mysteries that need to be solved in order that we may
live life to the full. For example, the mystery of the trinity. We
experience our being as one person. Multiple personalities are considered to
be a disorder. Mysteriously, God is triune. The one being who made us is
three persons. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are one divine being in
which love reigns supreme.
"Christ, according to the faith, is the second person in the Trinity,
the Father being the first and the Holy Ghost the third. Each of these
three persons is God.
1,2,3; Trying for a military-style order of command? To put them in
their proper place, as if objectively, and aside from their own
claims? God is the Father, Christ is the Son and the way to the
Father.
"Christ is his own father and his own son.
No, but Christ, being His Son, is reflection of the Father.
The Holy Ghost is neither
father nor son, but both. The son was begotten by the father, but
existed before he was begotten -- just the same before as after.
He existed before He was begotten on earth, and glorified by God the
Father after.
"Christ is just as old as his father, and the father is just as young
as his son.
Nonsense. In the beginning, His beginning, was the Word created by
God, implies John. And Christ never suggested anything different.
Christ said He is the vine and we are the branches. Something is
'similar' here. And He said God is the vine-dresser. This is not
difficult.
Later, in his letters, John was warned about those who would say
Christ was not God; calling them 'anti-Christs'. But some were saying
Christ was just a man. John was not saying Christ was God the Father
literally, and that we better believe that! It is absurd, from
Christ's statements alone.
The Holy Ghost proceeded from the Father and Son, but was
equal to the Father and Son before he proceeded, that is to say,
before he existed, but he is of the same age of the other two.
"So, it is declared that the Father is God, and the Son God and the
Holy Ghost God, and that these three Gods make one god.
God the Father has authority over them all. For the Father has sent
His Son to earth that man may know Him, and therefore gave the Son
authority over all flesh. So the Son may send His Spirit to those who
seek Him, and not necessarily to those who would define Him, for it is
they who are defined.
"According to the celestial multiplication table, once one is three,
and three times one is one, and according to heavenly subtraction if
we take two from three, three are left, The addition is equally
peculiar, if we add two to one we have but one. Each one is equal to
himself and the other two. Nothing ever was, nothing ever can be more
perfectly idiotic and absurd than the dogma of the Trinity.
Some teaching on this matter is absurd.
I think you need to get away from solving all the troubles in life by
multiplication tables (or arrays, or partial differentials) and see it
from a more human perspective, with regards to family. If we are
intuitive and appreciative of any particular family then we may sense
that it has its own 'spirit', good or bad. God has His Spirit, and it
is very real.
"Is it possible for a human being, who has been born but once, to
comprehend, or to imagine the existence of three beings, each of whom
is equal to the three?
It's possible to imagine most anything. But is it appropriate to
force equality on anything? Equality was not taught by Christ. Only
by claiming to be the Son of God did the pharisees then accuse Him of
claiming equality with God. It WAS quite a statement, to claim such
sonship. And so 'equality with God' is properly noted as to how we
approach Christ. But then man becomes very literal in his thoughts,
as if God could be defined by the simple logic of a computer (can even
man?), and messes up the interpretation. This is not so difficult.
Is Christ equal to God? God sent Christ to the earth, who obeyed even
unto death. So Christ was given authority over all flesh. Simply,
logically, the answer is...
"Think of one of these beings as the father of one, and think of that
one as half human and all God, and think of the third as having
proceeded from the other two, and then think of all three as one.
Think that after the father begot the son, the father was still alone,
and after the Holy Ghost proceeded from the father and the son, the
father was still alone -- because there never was and never will be
but one god.
"At this point, absurdity having reached its limit, nothing more can
be said except: 'Let us pray.' "
Let us pray that we may eventually see our preconcieved notions for
what they are. And that it is at least rude to present them as
flawless 'reason'.
from R.G. Ingersoll's lecture entitled The Foundations Of Faith, Part
IV: The Trinity, pg. 264 (1922 Dresden Edition).
## Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has.
Martin Luther
The presumptive, unguarded reason of man is probably an enemy of
faith, as it is to many things, inluding wisdom. Man easily gets
locked into his reason, and disdains all else. So a great enemy
'reason' can surely be!
--Mike
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| User: "John Ings" |
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| Title: Re: An open secret |
21 Oct 2004 03:39:11 PM |
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On Thu, 21 Oct 2004 17:48:43 GMT, Mike Rhodes
<mrhodes_47-nosp-@earthlink.net> wrote:
The presumptive, unguarded reason of man is probably an enemy of
faith, as it is to many things, inluding wisdom. Man easily gets
locked into his reason, and disdains all else. So a great enemy
'reason' can surely be!
"The efficacy of religion lies precisely in what is not rational,
philosophic nor eternal; its efficacy lies in the unforeseen, the
miraculous, the extraordinary. Thus religion attracts more devotion
according as it demands more faith-- that is to say, as it becomes
more incredible to the profane mind." Henri Amiel
"When God, from whom I have my reason, demands of me to sacrifice it,
he becomes a mere juggler that snatches from me that which he
pretended to give. If reason be a gift of Heaven, and we can say as
much of faith, Heaven has certainly made us two gifts not only
incompatible, but in direct contradiction to each other. In order to
solve the difficulty, we are compelled to say that faith is a chimera
or that reason is useless." Denis Diderot. 1777
## Religion explains to ignorance the nature of the unknowable
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