On 5 Apr 2006 05:26:01 -0500, bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com>
wrote:

Bible Bob wrote:

On 2 Apr 2006 23:54:08 -0500, bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com>
wrote:

Bible John wrote:

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http://johnw.freeshell.org/bible/bible_studies/Theological/animals_in_hea
ven.htm

Animals in Heaven

Many years ago I lost a favorite pitbull pet named Poochie. As much as I
want to
be reunited with my pal, I decided to study into the subject of animals
in Heaven.

Photo of Poochie

Someone in heaven heard that his best friend down on earth had just passed
away.

ÒOh I'm so looking forward to seeing him againÓ the man said. ÒSorryÓ said
God, ÒBut he will not be coming here because he has been a little bit more
sinful than you, so your friend, I'm sorry to tell you, will be going to the
other place called HellÓ.

So here's this man, sitting for eternity in paradise next to his loving God,
whilst his friend, who had been a little bit more sinful than he, is about
to roast for eternity on burning coals in a place called Hell.

Is it conceivable that anything could be more banal, juvenile, or crassly
stupid?

Bob
Humanist Brit.
Hong Kong

It is not conceivable by anyone who knows the truth. People do not go
to heaven when they die. The future dwelling place for humans is
paradise and it is on the earth. Hell is simply the grave; not a lake
of fire. Hell and death are cast into the lake of fire. If the
friend were foolish enough not to acccept God's offer of eternal life;
then the friend exercised his free will and the friend that made it to
paradise should respect the person enough to allow him to exercise his
free will. He should not miss him. People are responsible for their
decisions. That's life.

You missed the point [or did you avoid it?].

A loving god allows one man to go to hell and this same god lets another
live forever in paradise who has been very slightly less evil than the other
man.

The whole thing is glaringly stupid.

No. Love is allowing a person to exercise free will. It is just as
loving to allow a man to decide to reject eternal life as it is to
allow a man to accept it.

Following your chain of thought it would be correct to allow one's
daughter to marry only whom you wanted her to marry.

Before I jump into this complex topic, first I will say that this
study/mini sermon is
merely an Introduction to the topic of animals and the afterlife. This
is by no
means is as exhaustive a treatment of the subject as a college paper, or
book on the
subject. But Lord willing what you will read here will give you enough
information to go out and seek out answers on your own. One of the
goals of CER
Ministries is to excite people with the Word of God so that they go out
and
discover the bible for themselves.

The bible is not 100% clear if we will see animals in the afterlife, but
I think there
is enough evidence to lean toward the premise that they will be in
heaven. A few
passages dealing with animals in the afterlife are as follows.

2 Kings 2:11 (NKJV) 11Then it happened, as they continued on and talked,
that suddenly
a chariot of fire appeared with horses of fire, and separated the two of
them; and Elijah
went up by a whirlwind into heaven.

This verse is interesting. Certainly by reading it I am led to believe
that animals are in
heaven. I doubt anyone reading this passage will think differently.
Its obvious from the
verse read in the context, that Elijah was taken to heaven in this
chariot. The chariot
obviously came from Heaven and the horses as well. But the verse does
not address the
question if animals are reborn in the afterlife. No doubt animals will
be in Heaven, but
will those that have died here on earth be born again in Heaven?

You doubt wrong. The horses and chariot are figurative. Did you not
notice that the horses were "of" fire? Have you ever seen a horse
made out of fire? Horses represent power and might and fire is a
purifier in the Bible. Did you notice that the word "heaven" is
plural? It always is in the Bible when translated from the plural
shamyim. Checkout "chariot" in the next verse.

Hebrews 11:5 KJV
By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was
not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation
he had this testimony, that he pleased God.

He was translated; transported vertically to another location on the
earth. Humans can not go to Heaven, the dwelling place of God in
their human bodies. Jesus, if you recall, had a changed body (flesh
and bone - not flesh and blood) and that is why he is the only man
that has ever ascended to the throne of God.

Your conclusion is not logical based on the evidence you provided.
You are using the immature practice of drawing a premise that you want
to beleive and then trying to make Bible verses fit your premise.
That is not honest. That is not rightly dividing the word of truth.

In the passages below the context is not exactly Heaven, nor are the
animals reborn.
But the verses do lead the reader to believe that a) God likes animals,
and b) Animals
serve God. If such were the case, then it would make sense that He
would have them in
Heaven as His pets.

Revelation 5:13 (NKJV) 13And every creature which is in heaven and on
the earth and
under the earth and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, I
heard saying:
³Blessing and honor and glory and power
Be to Him who sits on the throne,
And to the Lamb, forever and _ ever!²

Does the verse above lead the reader to believe that animals can speak?
The
contrast alone baffles me!

Isaiah 65:17-25 (NKJV) 17 ³For behold, I create new heavens and a
new earth;
And the former shall not be remembered or come to mind.
18 But be glad and rejoice forever in what I create;
For behold, I create Jerusalem as a rejoicing,
And her people a joy.
19 I will rejoice in Jerusalem,
And joy in My people;
The voice of weeping shall no longer be heard in her,
Nor the voice of crying.
20 ³No more shall an infant from there live but a few days,
Nor an old man who has not fulfilled his days;
For the child shall die one hundred years old,
But the sinner being one hundred years old shall be accursed.
21 They shall build houses and inhabit them;
They shall plant vineyards and eat their fruit.
22 They shall not build and another inhabit;
They shall not plant and another eat;
For as the days of a tree, so shall be the days of My people,
And My elect shall long enjoy the work of their hands.
23 They shall not labor in vain,
Nor bring forth children for trouble;
For they shall be the descendants of the blessed of the Lord,
And their offspring with them.
24 ³It shall come to pass
That before they call, I will answer;
And while they are still speaking, I will hear.
25 The wolf and the lamb shall feed together,
The lion shall eat straw like the ox,
And dust shall be the serpent¹s food.
They shall not hurt nor destroy in all My holy mountain,²
Says the Lord.

Isaiah 11:1-9 (NKJV) 1 There shall come forth a Rod from the stem
of Jesse,
And a Branch shall grow out of his roots.
2 The Spirit of the Lord shall rest upon Him,
The Spirit of wisdom and understanding,
The Spirit of counsel and might,
The Spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the Lord.
3 His delight is in the fear of the Lord,
And He shall not judge by the sight of His eyes,
Nor decide by the hearing of His ears;
4 But with righteousness He shall judge the poor,
And decide with equity for the meek of the earth;
He shall strike the earth with the rod of His mouth,
And with the breath of His lips He shall slay the wicked.
5 Righteousness shall be the belt of His loins,
And faithfulness the belt of His waist.

Some claim that the ³all things² as mentioned in passages like Acts
3:19-21, Phil
3:20,21, Heb 2:8, and Rev 21:5 include animals. The passage in Romans
8:18-25
does include animals as part of the creation. But none of the passages
above
reveals whether or not animals that have died will be reborn.

Romans 8:18-25 (NKJV) 18For I consider that the sufferings of this
present time are not
worthy to be compared with the glory which shall be revealed in us.
19For the earnest expectation of the creation eagerly waits for the
revealing of the sons
of God.20For the creation was subjected to futility, not willingly, but
because of Him
who subjected it in hope;21because the creation itself also will be
delivered from the
bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of
God.22For we know
that the whole creation groans and labors with birth pangs together
until now.23Not
only that, but we also who have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we
ourselves groan
within ourselves, eagerly waiting for the adoption, the redemption of
our body.24For we
were saved in this hope, but hope that is seen is not hope; for why does
one still hope
for what he sees?25But if we hope for what we do not see, we eagerly
wait for it with
perseverance.

However the most popular passage of scripture dealing with the eternal
fate of animals is
Ecc 3:18-22, which reads.

Ecclesiastes 3:18-222 (NKJV) 18I said in my heart, ³Concerning the
condition of the sons
of men, God tests them, that they may see that they themselves are like
animals.²
19For what happens to the sons of men also happens to animals; one thing
befalls them:
as one dies, so dies the other. Surely, they all have one breath; man
has no advantage
over animals, for all is vanity.20All go to one place: all are from the
dust, and all return to
dust.21Who _ knows the spirit of the sons of men, which goes upward, and
the spirit of
the animal, which goes down to the earth?22So I perceived that nothing
is better than
that a man should rejoice in his own works, for that is his heritage.
For who can bring
him to see what will happen after him?

Lets look at the passage in the context.

First we know that King Solomon wrote this book. He was (next to Christ)
the wisest
man that ever lived. But he was the wealthiest man who lived.

In his wealth Solomon experimented with all that the world of his day
offered.

Next lets look at chapter 3 verses 10-11

Ecclesiastes 3:10-11 (NKJV) 10I have seen the God-given task with which
the sons of
men are to be occupied.11He has made everything beautiful in its time.
Also He has put
eternity in their hearts, except that no one can find out the work that
God does from
beginning to end.

Here we learn that God has put eternity into the hearts of man. This
makes a HUGE
distinction between man and beast. Perhaps not a physical distinction,
but a spiritual
one. I cannot find a passage in scripture that says the same of animals.

Next lets look at verses 15-17 and we learn that judgement is coming for
wicked people
(not animals).

Ecclesiastes 3:15-17 (NKJV) 15 That which is has already been,
And what is to be has already been;
And God requires an account of what is past.
16Moreover I saw under the sun:
In the place of judgment,
Wickedness was there;
And in the place of righteousness,
Iniquity was there.
17I said in my heart,
³God shall judge the righteous and the wicked,
For there is a time there for every purpose and for every work.²

The average Jew that read the bible in these days, perhaps thought that
Solomon¹s
writings did not apply to them. They thought that their birth gave them
salvation. They
did not believe in a conversion experience.

The text continues below

Ecclesiastes 3:18-20 (NKJV) 18I said in my heart, ³Concerning the
condition of the sons
of men, God tests them, that they may see that they themselves are like
animals.²
19For what happens to the sons of men also happens to animals; one thing
befalls them:
as one dies, so dies the other. Surely, they all have one breath; man
has no advantage
over animals, for all is vanity.20All go to one place: all are from the
dust, and all return to
dust.

The Jewish reader is put in his or her place in the passage above. The
perspective above
is clearly that of a physical comparison to animals. The passage is not
saying directly that
animals go to heaven when they die, as this is not exactly the entire
theme of the book.
The theme of the book is mentioned in chapter 12 verses 13-14.

Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 (NKJV) 13Let us hear the conclusion of the whole
matter:
Fear God and keep His commandments,
For this is man¹s all.
14 For God will bring every work into judgment,
Including every secret thing,
Whether good or evil.

So where are we left? We really do not know if animals that have died
will be
returned to us. Perhaps I will never again see my old friend Poochie,
and perhaps
you will never again see your animal friends that have died.

Love your pets as much as you can while they are with you. Perhaps you
will
never see them again after they die. Those of us who go to heaven will
learn that
God worked out everything according to His perfect plan regarding our
pets. I
may never understand why He let Poochie die, and will probably not
understand
until I get to Heaven and get to speak with my Lord face to face.
--
Heb. 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and
sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing
asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and
is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.
CERM-Church Education Resource Ministries
http://johnw.freeshell.org/bible/

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http://www.biblebob.net

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