| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"70AD" |
| Date: |
01 Jan 2006 04:13:04 AM |
| Object: |
AntiChrist |
Hi,
Folks in the modern church have made much about
a guy that they have called, "The AntiChrist".
But does he even exist? Was a person who is called,
"The AntiChrist" even spoken of, in the Bible?
Folks have put him into Daniel's prophecy, even though
Daniel never uses the word. They say he is the prince,
even though Daniel identifies the prince as the Messiah
Himself.
"Know therefore and understand, that from the going
forth of the commandment to restore and to build
Jerusalem unto THE MESSIAH THE PRINCE shall be
seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street
shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous
times." - Daniel 9:25
They have him making a seven year covenant and
making war with all of the saints and running the
world. But does the Bible even teach this?
They put him in Revelation and claim he is the beast.
But Revelation doesn't have the word "antichrist"
in it. So isn't that an assumption?
And when they point at this verse and that, aren't
they just again claiming it's the antichrist, because
of an already assumed doctrine?
It seems to me, that whole doctrines have been
invented and then the Bible has been forced
into that doctrine.
So what does the Bible teach about this guy they call,
"The AntiChrist"?
There are four passages in the Bible, that actually
have the word "antichrist" in them and all of them
were written by John and out of John's five writings
in the New Testament, all four mentions of this word
(note I did not say "person"), are found in only two
of his writings and three out of the four, are found
in the same writing and none of them are found
in the Gospel of John, nor Revelation.
All four are found in two of his letters. Three of
them in 1 John and one of them in 2 John. It is
the one in 1 John 2:18 that people use as "proof"
that it is an individual person. None of the other
three are speaking about an individual and no one
debates that.
Let's look at all four verses...
"Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have
heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there
many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the
last time." - 1 John 2:18
"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the
Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and
the Son." - 1 John 2:22
"And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ
is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that
spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it
should come; and even now already is it in the world."
- 1 John 4:3
"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who
confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.
This is a deceiver and an antichrist." - 2 John 1:7
Now folks make a lot out of the first verse listed
and say that it proves that this "antichrist" is a
person. I.e., "The AntiChrist".
As we can see, it is only the first one, 1 John 2:18,
that could even possibly be talking about a single
person, an individual. Thus, it seems that this
entire doctrine has been built on one passage
in the Bible. Does that seem like the right approach
to you?
Let's look at it a little closer and see what it says.
Before commenting, I would like to make note here,
that the word "the" (as in, "the AntiChrist") is not
in the original Greek Scripture. John simply says,
"you have heard that antichrist shall come".
The word "the" is in many Bible translations and many
people make arguments that it should be in there, but
the word "the" is simply not in the original Greek.
He does not say, "You have heard that 'The AntiChrist'
shall come.".
It is important to note however, that for what I'm
about to say, it wouldn't matter if the word "the"
was in there, so please, don't waste your time
arguing about it.
Now as to this Scripture, let's look at it again.
"Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have
heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there
many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the
last time." - 1 John 2:18
Now folks point at that verse and say, "See, there
it is! It says right there that he is coming!".
But we need to remember, John is not giving them
a teaching here. He is RESPONDING to a teaching.
The question is; Is John confirming this teaching?
Or does he have another purpose in mind?
There is another way to look at this.
John did not say, "AntiChrist is coming". He said,
"you HEAVE HEARD that antichrist shall come...".
That doesn't mean he's agreeing with what they heard,
nor that what they heard was the truth.
All John said, is that THEY HEARD that antichrist
was coming. Remember, the letters of the NT were
normally written IN RESPONSE, TO CORRECT
FALSE TEACHINGS.
Thus, that may be the case here. Again, John only
said, "you have heard that antichrist shall come".
So the other option is that John is correcting
a falsehood that was circulating through the
church.
John then goes on to say, "even now many antichrists
have come".
Now, did the prophecies that you have been taught
to think are related to this, by these other writers
of the Bible, predict "multiple antichrists"?
And don't give your interpretation. Don't say they
are forerunners. The Bible doesn't say that.
So do they say it, yes or no? Of course they don't.
And what does John go on to say, just four verses
later, in the same chapter of the same letter?
"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the
Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and
the Son." - 1 John 2:22
You see? It's not one guy. John is correcting a
misguided notion, which is demonstrated by how
he goes on to explain what "antichrist" is.
Think about John correcting them, telling them
that it is not one guy and then read the sentence
above... "He is antichrist, that denieth the Father
and the Son.".
Doesn't it make more sense that way?
Read the verses together and see how it reads now...
"Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have
heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there
many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the
last time." - 1 John 2:18
"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the
Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and
the Son." - 1 John 2:22
You see, John was correcting a Gnostic belief, that
had invaded the church, which is called, "Docetism"
and it taught that Jesus had no human body and
only appeared to be in the flesh and therefore, only
appeared to have died on the cross.
Thus, when John said, "They went out from us,
but they were not of us", he was talking about them.
Now read all of the passages together and see how
they read, knowing this and see if John is correcting
them, or if he was talking about one guy...
1 John 2:18-22
18) Little children, it is the last time: and as ye
have heard that antichrist shall come, even now
are there many antichrists; whereby we know
that it is the last time.
19) They went out from us, but they were not of
us: for if they had been of us, they would no doubt
have continued with us: but they went out, that
they might be made manifest that they were not
all of us.
20) But ye have an unction from the Holy One,
and ye know all things.
21) I have not written unto you because ye know
not the truth, but because ye know it, and that
no lie is of the truth.
22) Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus
is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the
Father and the Son.
Now read what John says later in the same letter
and see that he is clearly CORRECTING them
and NOT confirming what they were taught about
it being one guy.
Note that he said that they heard "antichrist shall
come". Remember that term.
Now read what he says later in the same letter,
remembering the Docetism I told you about...
1 John 4:2:3
2) Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit
that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the
flesh is of God:
3) And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus
Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this
is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard
that it should come; and even now already is it in
the world.
Note he uses the same term! He is saying that
this is what you heard is coming! The SPIRIT
that denies that Jesus came in the flesh!
Note that if we are granting the word "the", in
1 John 2:18 and that they believed it was to be
one guy, then what John said in response, is
clearly a correction of this false doctrine of
"one guy".
Read it altogether now and note that John is teaching
not only that antichrist was already in the world,
but that it was ALREADY THE LAST TIME. And
if we translate it literally, he said that it is the
"LAST HOUR". So pay attention to the "ye have
heard" phrase in the following...
1 John 2:18-22; 4:2-3
18) Little children, it is the last time: and as YE
HAVE HEARD that antichrist shall come, even
now are there many antichrists; whereby we
know that it is the last time.
19) They went out from us, but they were not of
us: for if they had been of us, they would no doubt
have continued with us: but they went out, that
they might be made manifest that they were not
all of us.
20) But ye have an unction from the Holy One,
and ye know all things.
21) I have not written unto you because ye know
not the truth, but because ye know it, and that
no lie is of the truth.
22) Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus
is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the
Father and the Son.
2) Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit
that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the
flesh is of God:
3) And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus
Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and THIS
IS THAT spirit of antichrist, WHEREOF YE HAVE
HEARD that it should come; and even now already
is it in the world.
As I said, it seems that John here, is actually
correcting a misguided notion, that the people
are to wait for a single individual and does so,
by telling them that there are antichrists already
in the world, because of the false doctrine of
Docetism and because it is a spirit that denies
the Father and the Son and/or that Jesus came
in the flesh. So why would they wait for what is
already here? And why would they wait for an
individual, when it is not an individual, but a
false belief?
John said, very clearly, that the antichrist that they
heard was coming, is simply "every spirit that does
not confess that Jesus Christ came in the flesh".
He says, "*_THIS IS_* *_THAT_* spirit of ANTICHRIST,
which YOU HEARD SHOULD COME".
I.e., It's NOT an individual folks.
Think about it. Are we Mormons here? :)
The spirit of an individual does not proceed
the individual. :)
He is saying, "The thing happening NOW is what you
heard would come and is not an individual. You were
misguided by someone who told you to look for an
individual, when in reality, it is Docetism, that is
antichrist.".
Folks should really read their Bible's carefully and
compare them to what their preachers say. They would
be amazed at what is NOT in there and what is in there
and is ignored. Their churches are taking just a few
verses, telling them that this means that and wooden
weapons equal machine guns and tanks and the people
are swallowing this garbage hook, line and sinker.
There is no one individual "AntiChrist" listed anywhere
in the Bible! As I said, what John was fighting in
that letter, was a belief called, "Docetism", which
is defined as follows...
Docetism: An opinion especially associated with
the Gnostics that Jesus had no human body and
only appeared to have died on the cross.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=docetism
That's right, the church he was writing to, had
Gnostics trying to influence them. John was
correcting their false teaching. Remember,
as I said, many of the letters in the NT were
written as responses to questions and problems.
NOW read the letter from John, along with what I have
said earlier in this message and taking Docetism into
account and his letter will come alive for you, with
new meaning! Read it carefully and slowly and let God
speak to you through it. Yes, folks, BE BEREANS!
Read Acts 17:10-12 and you'll find that the Bereans
were considered more noble, because they didn't believe
Paul right away. He preached and they went home and
studied the Scripture to see, "whether those things
were so". And they were so. And because of that, the
Bible tells us, "THEREFORE", many of them believed".
I.e., if it's not there, in the writer's own words,
don't you believe it!
I recommend reading all of 1 John right now, carefully
and slowly and without preconceived notions.
John defines what antichrist is:
"And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ
is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that
spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it
should come; and even now already is it in the world."
- 1 John 4:3
It is not an individual. Nor is John talking about the
spirit of antichrist coming from one man and taking
control of the people. Satan doesn't have that power.
He is not God. "Resist him and he will flee from you".
Remember that? To make these kinds of claims, puts
Satan on equal footing with God. And that is
ridiculous!
And don't forget a VERY IMPORTANT part of
the same verse that is quoted. John tells us that...
"many antichrists" are already in the world and
he says that "by this we know it is the last hour".
Now note, he doesn't say that they know that the last
hour is COMING. Nor does he say when THE AntiChrist
arrives, that it will be the last hour. No, he says
that because many antichrists are ALREADY IN THE
WORLD, they know that "*_ IT IS_* the last hour".
Let's look at a quick verse break down.
"Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have
heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there
many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last
time." - 1 John 2:18
1) Little children, it IS the last time. Not,
"will be", but *_IS_*.
2) You heard that AntiChrist shall come.
3) Even now there are many antichrists.
4) Again... By this we know IT IS the last time.
They heard that AntiChrist would come. Yet at that
moment, there were many antichrists. By that, they
should know it is the last time. Not, "you will know",
but they DO know it IS the last time.
Later in the same letter, John says...
"And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ
is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that
spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it
should come; and even now already is it in the world."
- 1 John 4:3
Again, John corrected them here. What they heard
should come as an individual, was actually a belief
we call Docetism and was already in the world.
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
"The burden of Babylon, which Isaiah the son
of Amoz did see. Howl ye; for the day of
the LORD is at hand; it shall come as a
destruction from the Almighty. Therefore
shall all hands be faint, and every man's
heart shall melt:" - Isaiah 13:1,6-9
(prophecy regarding Babylon, fulfilled in
539 B.C.)
This signature was made by SigChanger.
You can find SigChanger at: http://www.phranc.nl/
.
|
|
| User: "Pastor Steve Winter" |
|
| Title: Re: AntiChrist |
01 Jan 2006 10:36:26 PM |
|
|
70AD <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> spake thusly and wrote:
Folks in the modern church have made much about
a guy that they have called, "The AntiChrist".
Actually false-christian scum like Dave Raymond are
a part of the antichrist system.
The word "antichrist" appears 4 time in the Holy Bible in four
separate verses.
1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have
heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many
antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus<2424>
is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the
Son.
1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus<2424>
Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that
spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come;
and even now already is it in the world.
2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who
confess not that Jesus<2424> Christ is come in the flesh. This is
a deceiver and an antichrist.
In each of these verses the word translated as Jesus comes from
reference 2424
Words mean things so let us look at the definition of the word.
If we are to understand a Bible verse then we need to know the
meaning of the words used in that verse, eh?
2424 Iesous {ee-ay-sooce'}
of Hebrew origin 03091; TDNT - 3:284,360; n pr m
AV - Jesus 972, Jesus (Joshua) 2, Jesus (Justus) 1; 975
Jesus = "Jehovah is salvation"
Notice the Hebrew of 03091
03091 Y@howshuwa` {yeh-ho-shoo'-ah} or Y@howshu`a
{yeh-ho-shoo'-ah}
from 03068 and 03467;
AV - Joshua 218; 218
Joshua or Jehoshua = "Jehovah is salvation" n pr m
Then notice the Hebrew for 03068 referred to above:
03068 Y@hovah {yeh-ho-vaw'}
from 01961; TWOT - 484a; n pr dei
AV - LORD 6510, GOD 4, JEHOVAH 4, variant 1; 6519
Jehovah = "the existing One"
1) the proper name of the one true God
1a) unpronounced except with the vowel pointings of 0136
The trinity that filth like Dave Raymond peddle does not teach
that "Jehovah savior" came in the flesh, but rather teaches that
a "second person", or "junior deity" came in the flesh. Does
the trinity teach that Jehovah died on the cross for your sins or
do they teach a "junior person"?
Many are taught John 3:16 but what about 1 John 3:16
1 John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid
down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the
brethren.
That does not say that a junior god person died on the cross now
does it?
There is also another group of verses that warn particularly
against polytheistic theories, and further declare them capable
of "spoiling".
Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy
and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments
of the world, and not after Christ.
Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead
bodily.
Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of
all principality and power:
These deceiving scum like Dave Raymond, John Wolf and other
trinity filth really are spoilers of souls.
Let us review our original verses and simply substitute Jehovah
for Jesus since we know that is the definition of the word
"Jesus".
1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have
heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many
antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus<2424>
is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the
Son.
1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus<2424>
Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that
spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come;
and even now already is it in the world.
2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who
confess not that Jesus<2424> Christ is come in the flesh. This is
a deceiver and an antichrist.
That's right friend. Trinitarianism is not merely stupid foolish
and deceitful, it really is ANTICHRIST!
Consider also this verse regarding the human tendency that man
has to "make up" his own "gods" (If people didn't get a measure
of peace and satisfaction they wouldn't have been worshipping
creations of their own minds for centuries).
Jeremiah 5:7 How shall I pardon thee for this? thy children have
forsaken me, and sworn by [them that are] no gods: when I had fed
them to the full, they then committed adultery, and assembled
themselves by troops in the harlots' houses.
Jeremiah 16:20 Shall a man make gods unto himself, and they [are]
no gods?
Genesis 3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in
the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid
themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of
the garden.
According to the trinity there would have been 5 pair of feet
walking in the garden in this verse. 1 pair for Adam, 1 pair for
Eve and three pair for the trinity that they were hiding from. Of
course the more scholarly of the trinitarians might suggest that
there were only 4 pair of feet actually walking because god
person #2 was riding on the right hand of god person #1.
Also considering the trinitarian attempt to preach plural gods
from Gen 1:26:
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after
our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the
sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over
all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon
the earth.
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image
of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Shouldn't verse 27 read "created they them"? And if the
"trinity" of three created Adam in "their image", where are the
other two Adam persons? We need two other "persons" here. I
mean, if one "person" can sit on the other "person"'s right hand
then where were Adam's two "co-equal" persons. Then we would
need a trinity of wives.
Yet we have trinitarians who claim to be "one god", Biblically
Christian, and monotheistic. How can this be?
2 Corinthians 11:12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may
cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein
they glory, they may be found even as we.
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming
themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel
of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be
transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be
according to their works.
In the above verses Paul says that it is Biblical to try to cut
off occasion from the Satanic ministers like Dave Raymond
and other false-christian filth who will be pretending to be
ministers of righteousness.
Revelation 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had
the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither;
I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great ***** that
sitteth upon many waters:
2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication,
and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the
wine of her fornication.
3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I
saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of
blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and
decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden
cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her
fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE
GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and
with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I
wondered with great admiration.
Pastor sTeve Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
.
|
|
|
| User: "70AD" |
|
| Title: Re: AntiChrist |
01 Jan 2006 11:48:05 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 23:36:26 -0500, Pastor Steve Winter
<steve-.NO--SPAM@-prime.org> spake thusly:
70AD <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> spake thusly and wrote:
Folks in the modern church have made much about
a guy that they have called, "The AntiChrist".
Actually false-christian scum like Dave Raymond are
a part of the antichrist system.
Stevey, you old scum bag! How the heck are ya, buddy?!
The word "antichrist" appears 4 time in the Holy Bible in four
separate verses.
I already told them that, Stevey.
<snip references that do not deal with
the actual four verses>
Wow! Look at that! Nothing left! :)
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
In a company of literary gentlemen, Daniel Webster
was asked if he could comprehend how Jesus Christ
could be both God and man. "No, sir," he replied,
and added, "I should be ashamed to acknowledge Him
as my Savior if I could comprehend Him. If I could
comprehend Him, He could be no greater than myself.
Such is my sense of sin, and consciousness of my
inability to save myself, that I feel I need a
superhuman Savior, one so great and glorious that
I cannot comprehend Him."
This signature was made by SigChanger.
You can find SigChanger at: http://www.phranc.nl/
.
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "70AD" |
|
| Title: Re: AntiChrist |
01 Jan 2006 04:17:59 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 10:13:04 GMT, 70AD
<_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> spake thusly:
P.S.: Note that this is all, as I said, based on the
premise that the word "the" is implied in that
passage, 1 John 2:18.
If it is not, then all John is saying is that the
antichrist that they heard was coming, which
is that false spirit that he described, was
already in the world.
Hi,
Folks in the modern church have made much about
a guy that they have called, "The AntiChrist".
But does he even exist? Was a person who is called,
"The AntiChrist" even spoken of, in the Bible?
Folks have put him into Daniel's prophecy, even though
Daniel never uses the word. They say he is the prince,
even though Daniel identifies the prince as the Messiah
Himself.
"Know therefore and understand, that from the going
forth of the commandment to restore and to build
Jerusalem unto THE MESSIAH THE PRINCE shall be
seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street
shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous
times." - Daniel 9:25
They have him making a seven year covenant and
making war with all of the saints and running the
world. But does the Bible even teach this?
They put him in Revelation and claim he is the beast.
But Revelation doesn't have the word "antichrist"
in it. So isn't that an assumption?
And when they point at this verse and that, aren't
they just again claiming it's the antichrist, because
of an already assumed doctrine?
It seems to me, that whole doctrines have been
invented and then the Bible has been forced
into that doctrine.
So what does the Bible teach about this guy they call,
"The AntiChrist"?
There are four passages in the Bible, that actually
have the word "antichrist" in them and all of them
were written by John and out of John's five writings
in the New Testament, all four mentions of this word
(note I did not say "person"), are found in only two
of his writings and three out of the four, are found
in the same writing and none of them are found
in the Gospel of John, nor Revelation.
All four are found in two of his letters. Three of
them in 1 John and one of them in 2 John. It is
the one in 1 John 2:18 that people use as "proof"
that it is an individual person. None of the other
three are speaking about an individual and no one
debates that.
Let's look at all four verses...
"Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have
heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there
many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the
last time." - 1 John 2:18
"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the
Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and
the Son." - 1 John 2:22
"And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ
is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that
spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it
should come; and even now already is it in the world."
- 1 John 4:3
"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who
confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.
This is a deceiver and an antichrist." - 2 John 1:7
Now folks make a lot out of the first verse listed
and say that it proves that this "antichrist" is a
person. I.e., "The AntiChrist".
As we can see, it is only the first one, 1 John 2:18,
that could even possibly be talking about a single
person, an individual. Thus, it seems that this
entire doctrine has been built on one passage
in the Bible. Does that seem like the right approach
to you?
Let's look at it a little closer and see what it says.
Before commenting, I would like to make note here,
that the word "the" (as in, "the AntiChrist") is not
in the original Greek Scripture. John simply says,
"you have heard that antichrist shall come".
The word "the" is in many Bible translations and many
people make arguments that it should be in there, but
the word "the" is simply not in the original Greek.
He does not say, "You have heard that 'The AntiChrist'
shall come.".
It is important to note however, that for what I'm
about to say, it wouldn't matter if the word "the"
was in there, so please, don't waste your time
arguing about it.
Now as to this Scripture, let's look at it again.
"Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have
heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there
many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the
last time." - 1 John 2:18
Now folks point at that verse and say, "See, there
it is! It says right there that he is coming!".
But we need to remember, John is not giving them
a teaching here. He is RESPONDING to a teaching.
The question is; Is John confirming this teaching?
Or does he have another purpose in mind?
There is another way to look at this.
John did not say, "AntiChrist is coming". He said,
"you HEAVE HEARD that antichrist shall come...".
That doesn't mean he's agreeing with what they heard,
nor that what they heard was the truth.
All John said, is that THEY HEARD that antichrist
was coming. Remember, the letters of the NT were
normally written IN RESPONSE, TO CORRECT
FALSE TEACHINGS.
Thus, that may be the case here. Again, John only
said, "you have heard that antichrist shall come".
So the other option is that John is correcting
a falsehood that was circulating through the
church.
John then goes on to say, "even now many antichrists
have come".
Now, did the prophecies that you have been taught
to think are related to this, by these other writers
of the Bible, predict "multiple antichrists"?
And don't give your interpretation. Don't say they
are forerunners. The Bible doesn't say that.
So do they say it, yes or no? Of course they don't.
And what does John go on to say, just four verses
later, in the same chapter of the same letter?
"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the
Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and
the Son." - 1 John 2:22
You see? It's not one guy. John is correcting a
misguided notion, which is demonstrated by how
he goes on to explain what "antichrist" is.
Think about John correcting them, telling them
that it is not one guy and then read the sentence
above... "He is antichrist, that denieth the Father
and the Son.".
Doesn't it make more sense that way?
Read the verses together and see how it reads now...
"Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have
heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there
many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the
last time." - 1 John 2:18
"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the
Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and
the Son." - 1 John 2:22
You see, John was correcting a Gnostic belief, that
had invaded the church, which is called, "Docetism"
and it taught that Jesus had no human body and
only appeared to be in the flesh and therefore, only
appeared to have died on the cross.
Thus, when John said, "They went out from us,
but they were not of us", he was talking about them.
Now read all of the passages together and see how
they read, knowing this and see if John is correcting
them, or if he was talking about one guy...
1 John 2:18-22
18) Little children, it is the last time: and as ye
have heard that antichrist shall come, even now
are there many antichrists; whereby we know
that it is the last time.
19) They went out from us, but they were not of
us: for if they had been of us, they would no doubt
have continued with us: but they went out, that
they might be made manifest that they were not
all of us.
20) But ye have an unction from the Holy One,
and ye know all things.
21) I have not written unto you because ye know
not the truth, but because ye know it, and that
no lie is of the truth.
22) Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus
is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the
Father and the Son.
Now read what John says later in the same letter
and see that he is clearly CORRECTING them
and NOT confirming what they were taught about
it being one guy.
Note that he said that they heard "antichrist shall
come". Remember that term.
Now read what he says later in the same letter,
remembering the Docetism I told you about...
1 John 4:2:3
2) Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit
that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the
flesh is of God:
3) And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus
Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this
is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard
that it should come; and even now already is it in
the world.
Note he uses the same term! He is saying that
this is what you heard is coming! The SPIRIT
that denies that Jesus came in the flesh!
Note that if we are granting the word "the", in
1 John 2:18 and that they believed it was to be
one guy, then what John said in response, is
clearly a correction of this false doctrine of
"one guy".
Read it altogether now and note that John is teaching
not only that antichrist was already in the world,
but that it was ALREADY THE LAST TIME. And
if we translate it literally, he said that it is the
"LAST HOUR". So pay attention to the "ye have
heard" phrase in the following...
1 John 2:18-22; 4:2-3
18) Little children, it is the last time: and as YE
HAVE HEARD that antichrist shall come, even
now are there many antichrists; whereby we
know that it is the last time.
19) They went out from us, but they were not of
us: for if they had been of us, they would no doubt
have continued with us: but they went out, that
they might be made manifest that they were not
all of us.
20) But ye have an unction from the Holy One,
and ye know all things.
21) I have not written unto you because ye know
not the truth, but because ye know it, and that
no lie is of the truth.
22) Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus
is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the
Father and the Son.
2) Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit
that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the
flesh is of God:
3) And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus
Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and THIS
IS THAT spirit of antichrist, WHEREOF YE HAVE
HEARD that it should come; and even now already
is it in the world.
As I said, it seems that John here, is actually
correcting a misguided notion, that the people
are to wait for a single individual and does so,
by telling them that there are antichrists already
in the world, because of the false doctrine of
Docetism and because it is a spirit that denies
the Father and the Son and/or that Jesus came
in the flesh. So why would they wait for what is
already here? And why would they wait for an
individual, when it is not an individual, but a
false belief?
John said, very clearly, that the antichrist that they
heard was coming, is simply "every spirit that does
not confess that Jesus Christ came in the flesh".
He says, "*_THIS IS_* *_THAT_* spirit of ANTICHRIST,
which YOU HEARD SHOULD COME".
I.e., It's NOT an individual folks.
Think about it. Are we Mormons here? :)
The spirit of an individual does not proceed
the individual. :)
He is saying, "The thing happening NOW is what you
heard would come and is not an individual. You were
misguided by someone who told you to look for an
individual, when in reality, it is Docetism, that is
antichrist.".
Folks should really read their Bible's carefully and
compare them to what their preachers say. They would
be amazed at what is NOT in there and what is in there
and is ignored. Their churches are taking just a few
verses, telling them that this means that and wooden
weapons equal machine guns and tanks and the people
are swallowing this garbage hook, line and sinker.
There is no one individual "AntiChrist" listed anywhere
in the Bible! As I said, what John was fighting in
that letter, was a belief called, "Docetism", which
is defined as follows...
Docetism: An opinion especially associated with
the Gnostics that Jesus had no human body and
only appeared to have died on the cross.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=docetism
That's right, the church he was writing to, had
Gnostics trying to influence them. John was
correcting their false teaching. Remember,
as I said, many of the letters in the NT were
written as responses to questions and problems.
NOW read the letter from John, along with what I have
said earlier in this message and taking Docetism into
account and his letter will come alive for you, with
new meaning! Read it carefully and slowly and let God
speak to you through it. Yes, folks, BE BEREANS!
Read Acts 17:10-12 and you'll find that the Bereans
were considered more noble, because they didn't believe
Paul right away. He preached and they went home and
studied the Scripture to see, "whether those things
were so". And they were so. And because of that, the
Bible tells us, "THEREFORE", many of them believed".
I.e., if it's not there, in the writer's own words,
don't you believe it!
I recommend reading all of 1 John right now, carefully
and slowly and without preconceived notions.
John defines what antichrist is:
"And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ
is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that
spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it
should come; and even now already is it in the world."
- 1 John 4:3
It is not an individual. Nor is John talking about the
spirit of antichrist coming from one man and taking
control of the people. Satan doesn't have that power.
He is not God. "Resist him and he will flee from you".
Remember that? To make these kinds of claims, puts
Satan on equal footing with God. And that is
ridiculous!
And don't forget a VERY IMPORTANT part of
the same verse that is quoted. John tells us that...
"many antichrists" are already in the world and
he says that "by this we know it is the last hour".
Now note, he doesn't say that they know that the last
hour is COMING. Nor does he say when THE AntiChrist
arrives, that it will be the last hour. No, he says
that because many antichrists are ALREADY IN THE
WORLD, they know that "*_ IT IS_* the last hour".
Let's look at a quick verse break down.
"Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have
heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there
many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last
time." - 1 John 2:18
1) Little children, it IS the last time. Not,
"will be", but *_IS_*.
2) You heard that AntiChrist shall come.
3) Even now there are many antichrists.
4) Again... By this we know IT IS the last time.
They heard that AntiChrist would come. Yet at that
moment, there were many antichrists. By that, they
should know it is the last time. Not, "you will know",
but they DO know it IS the last time.
Later in the same letter, John says...
"And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ
is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that
spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it
should come; and even now already is it in the world."
- 1 John 4:3
Again, John corrected them here. What they heard
should come as an individual, was actually a belief
we call Docetism and was already in the world.
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
When Christianity becomes religion,
it leaves the heart hungry.
This signature was made by SigChanger.
You can find SigChanger at: http://www.phranc.nl/
.
|
|
|
| User: "Chuck Stamford" |
|
| Title: Re: AntiChrist |
01 Jan 2006 06:05:16 AM |
|
|
"70AD" <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:pvafr1hcv403i2ki8jb73k5obo2rdfvu27@4ax.com...
On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 10:13:04 GMT, 70AD
<_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> spake thusly:
P.S.: Note that this is all, as I said, based on the
premise that the word "the" is implied in that
passage, 1 John 2:18.
If it is not, then all John is saying is that the
antichrist that they heard was coming, which
is that false spirit that he described, was
already in the world.
"touto estin to tou antichristou", literally translated "this is the of the
antichrist"
The English world "spirit" is the word that is inserted for clarity here,
that does not appear in the Greek. The Greek word "tou" (translated here as
"of the") is a definite article used here in the genitive, masculine,
singular. There is therefore no doubt that John is speaking about a real
person at 1 John 4:3b.
Of 1 John 4:3, you wrote in your exposition (which I've snipped): "Note he
uses the same term!" You should have taken your own advice, and better
noted what John wrote.
Chuck Stamford
.
|
|
|
| User: "stone" |
|
| Title: Re: AntiChrist |
08 Jan 2006 12:04:03 PM |
|
|
Chuck Stamford wrote in message ...
"70AD" <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:pvafr1hcv403i2ki8jb73k5obo2rdfvu27@4ax.com...
On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 10:13:04 GMT, 70AD
<_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> spake thusly:
P.S.: Note that this is all, as I said, based on the
premise that the word "the" is implied in that
passage, 1 John 2:18.
If it is not, then all John is saying is that the
antichrist that they heard was coming, which
is that false spirit that he described, was
already in the world.
"touto estin to tou antichristou", literally translated "this is the of the
antichrist"
The English world "spirit" is the word that is inserted for clarity here,
that does not appear in the Greek. The Greek word "tou" (translated here
as
"of the") is a definite article used here in the genitive, masculine,
singular. There is therefore no doubt that John is speaking about a real
person at 1 John 4:3b.
Of 1 John 4:3, you wrote in your exposition (which I've snipped): "Note he
uses the same term!" You should have taken your own advice, and better
noted what John wrote.
Chuck Stamford
Antichrist is a name given to an evil ruler at the time of the end. He is
called by several different names throughout scripture.
Dan.7:24,25 Dan. 9:27 Dan. 7:7, 8,20,23,25 Dan. 2:44 Rev 13:1,2 Dan
8:23, 25 Dan 13:5,7, 11,12 Rev. 17:8 Rev. 17:11,13,14 Dan 11:21, 31,
36, 37, 38 45 2Thessalonians 2:4,8 Dan112:7 Rev 14:11 Rev.15:2 Rev 19:20
Rev20:10
Prophecies that the Antichrist will fulfill How will anybody know who the
antichrist is? Is there any sure way of knowing? Yes, there is! The Bible
gives specific clues as to what this "man of sin" will be like. Here we will
take a look at scripture to find out exactly what is predicted for the "son
of perdition". The antichrist will be a man - Daniel 7:24-25 He will confirm
a covenant for 7 years - Daniel 9:27 Now also, this does not mean that he
creates this covenant. The word here for "confirm" is 1396 gabar (gaw-bar');
a primitive root; to be strong; by implication, to prevail, act insolently:
KJV-- exceed, confirm, be great, be mighty, prevail, put to more [strength],
strengthen, be stronger, be valiant. The antichrist will strengthen a
covenant for a 7 year time span. Now this could be an existing covenant
(like the Jerusalem Covenant) or a new covenant drawn up at that time. He
will rise among 10 kings - Daniel 7:8 This 10 nation union will be a revived
Holy Roman Empire - Daniel 2:44 He will uproot 3 kings from the original 10
kings to gain political power - Daniel 7:8 His 10 nation union will merge
into a world government which he will dominate - Revelations 13:1-2 Now this
also, could refer to several things. First, the 10 nations could merge into
an EXISTING world government, such as the U.N. Or it could for a new world
government, much like the U.N. Or, this 10 nation confederation could be
something like the new 10 nation common stock market. A union like this
would definitely rule the world, without having a "seat" of power. Whoever
controls the money, controls the globe. He will ascend to power on a
platform of peace. By peace, he will destroy many - Daniel 8:25 He will be
promoted and exalted by a miracle working religious partner (false
prophet) - Revelations 13:11-12 He was, and is not, and yet is - Revelations
17:8 More than likely this is referring to political power. The antichrist
will have ruled, but then be taken out of power. Only to rise back up again
to power as the head of the One World Government. The antichrist will be
preceded by 7 kings or rulers. He will be the 8th king. He will also be "of"
the 7 - Revelations 17:11 Now this scripture has many different ways it can
be viewed. The word "goeth" in the scripture is 5217 hupago (hoop-ag'-o);
from 5259 and 71; to lead (oneself) under, i.e. withdraw or retire (as if
sinking out of sight), literally or figuratively: KJV-- depart, get hence,
go (a-) way. So we see that he will withdraw or retire from sight. But will
rise back up again to power. Now this could be taken as to mean 7 kings. Or
this could be taken as 7 World Governments that have ruled. So far there
have been 6. 1. Egypt. 2. Assyria. 3. Babylon. 4. Medo-Persia. 5. Greece. 6.
Rome He will have a mouth speaking great things. Very boastful - Daniel 7:8
His look will be more stout than his fellows - Daniel 7:20 The word "stout"
means 7227 rab (rab); by contracted from 7231; abundant (in quantity, size,
age, number, rank, quality): KJV-- (in) abound (-undance, -ant, -antly),
captain, elder, enough, exceedingly, full, great (-ly, man, one), increase,
long (enough, [time]), (do, have) many (-ifold, things, a time), ([ship-])
master, mighty, more, (too, very) much, multiply (-tude), officer, often
[-times], plenteous, populous, prince, process [of time], suffice (-lent).
So this can have several meanings. It could mean one of the following: the
antichrist will be larger in size than everybody else, will be older than
everybody else, will have more of a "following" than anybody else, is a
higher military or political rank than anybody else, or is more qualified
than anybody else. What ever this verse is speaking about, it is obvious
when you look at him. He will have a fierce countenance - Daniel 8:23 He
will understand puzzling things - Daniel 8:23 He will cause craft to
prosper - Daniel 8:25 It is interesting to note the definition of the word
"craft" here. It is 4820 mirmah (meer-maw'); from 7411 in the sense of
deceiving; fraud: KJV-- craft, deceit (-ful, -fully), false, feigned, guile,
subtilly, treachery. No wonder, for the Bible says that he is the father of
lies. So his policy or his success will make it possible for his deception
of the world to prosper. God said that if you do not believe the truth, that
he would send strong delusion that you should believe a lie. He apparently
assumes world dominating power 3 1/2 years after he confirms the covenant.
He then will continue to reign for 42 months - Revelations 13:5 The
Abomination of Desolation is the event that signals the beginning of this
final 42 months - Daniel 9:27 He opposes God - 2 Thessalonians 2:4 He will
speak marvelous things against the God of gods - Daniel 11:36 He will exalt
himself above all that is called God - 2 Thessalonians 2:4 He will sit in
the temple of God - 2 Thessalonians 2:4 He will claim to be God (or an
incarnation of God) - 2 Thessalonians 2:4 He will take away the daily
sacrifices from the temple - Daniel 11:31 He will plant the tabernacles of
his palace between the seas in the glorious holy mountain - Daniel 11:45 It
would seem here that the Antichrist will setup small "fortifications" in
between the sea and Jerusalem, to help keep control over things in distant
areas away from the main offices. He will have power to make war with the
saints and to overcome them - Revelations 13:7 He will continue this war
with the saints for 3 1/2 years - Daniel 7:21, 25 This time of Great
Tribulation is launched upon the Earth by the antichrist at the Abomination
of Desolation. - Matthew 24:15,21. Up until this time, it would seem that he
is a man of peace and not war. But now he shows his true colors. Perhaps is
possessed by Satan himself at this point as well. Which would account for
the false front being dropped at this time. During this time, the antichrist
will scatter the power of the holy people - Daniel 12:7 He will rule a
mighty and strong kingdom - Daniel 7:7 He was given power over all kindreds,
tongues and nations - Revelations 13:7 His kingdom will devour the whole
earth - Daniel 7:23 He will have great military power that will stand behind
him, to enforce his laws - Daniel 11:31 He will try to change times and
laws; and they will be given into his power for 3 1/2 years - Daniel 7:25 He
will give great honor to the God of forces, with gold, silver, jewels, etc -
Daniel 11:38 He will prosper in everything that he does - Daniel 8:24 He
will not regard the God of his fathers - Daniel 11:37 He will not regard the
desire of women - Daniel 11:37 It is interesting to note here that most
people think that he will be a homosexual, which could be. The mark of the
beast will be the amount of his name - Revelations 14:11 All that dwell upon
the Earth will worship him, except those who's names are written in the
Lamb's Book of Life - Revelations 15:2 He will have an image made after
him - Revelations 15:2 This could also be in reference to his kingdom's logo
or insignia. Much like the U.N. has a logo that every soldier on a U.N.
mission must wear, there might also be a logo or insignia that his armies
would have to wear His coming will be after the workings of Satan - 2
Thessalonians 2:8 He will fight against Jesus Christ at Armageddon (and
loose I might add!) - Revelations 17:14 He will stand against the Prince of
princes - Daniel 8:25 The Lord will consume him with the spirit of his mouth
(which is the Word of God) - 2 Thessalonians 2:8 The Lord will destroy him
with the brightness of his coming (which is his glory) - 2 Thessalonians 2:8
He will be cast alive into the lake of fire - Revelations 19:20 He will be
tormented day and night for ever and ever - Revelations 20:10
The following quotes show just how far the churches of today have strayed
from the wisdom of their founding fathers.
Martin Luther
(1483-1546) (Lutheran)
"We here are of the conviction that the papacy is the seat of the true and
real Antichrist...personally I declare that I owe the Pope no other
obedience than that to Antichrist." (Aug. 18, 1520) Taken from "The
Prophetic Faith of Our Fathers," Vol. 2, pg. 121 by Froom.
John Calvin
(1509-1564) (Presbyterian)
"Some persons think us too severe and censorious when we call the Roman
pontiff Antichrist. But those who are of this opinion do not consider that
they bring the same charge of presumption against Paul himself, after whom
we speak and whose language we adopt...I shall briefly show that (Paul's
words in II Thess. 2) are not capable of any other interpretation than that
which applies them to the Papacy." Taken from "Institutes" by John Calvin.
Cotton Mather
(1663-1728) (Congregational Theologian)
"The oracles of God foretold the rising of an Antichrist in the Christian
Church; and in the Pope of Rome, all the characteristics of that Antichrist
are so marvelously answered that if any who read the Scriptures do not see
it, there is a marvelous blindness upon them." Taken from "The Fall of
Babylon" by Cotton Mather in Froom's book "The Prophetic Faith of Our
Fathers," Vol. 3, pg. 113.
John Knox
(1505-1572) (Scotch Presbyterian)
Knox wrote to abolish "that tyranny which the pope himself has for so many
ages exercised over the church" and that the pope should be recognized as
"the very antichrist, and son of perdition, of whom Paul speaks." Taken from
"The Zurich Letters" pg. 199 by John Knox.
Thomas Cranmer
(1489-1556) (Anglican)
"Whereof it followeth Rome to be the seat of antichrist, and the pope to be
very antichrist himself. I could prove the same by many other scriptures,
old writers, and strong reasons." (Referring to prophecies in Revelation and
Daniel.) Taken from "Works" by Cranmer, Vol. 1, pp. 6-7.
John Wesley
(1703-1791) (Methodist)
Speaking of the Papacy he said, "He is in an emphatical sense, the Man of
Sin, as he increases all manner of sin above measure. And he is, too,
properly styled the Son of Perdition, as he has caused the death of
numberless multitudes, both of his opposers and followers...He it is...that
exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is
worshiped...claiming the highest power, and highest honor...claiming the
prerogatives which belong to God alone." Taken from "Antichrist and His Ten
Kingdoms" by John Wesley, pg. 110.
Roger William
(1603-1683) (First Baptist Pastor in America)
He spoke of the Pope as "the pretended Vicar of Christ on earth, who sits as
God over the Temple of God, exalting himself not only above all that is
called God, but over the souls and consciences of all his vessals, yea over
the Spirit of Christ, over the Holy Spirit, yea, and God himself...speaking
against the God of heaven, thinking to changed times and laws: but he is the
son of perdition (II Thess. 2)." Taken from "The Prophetic Faith of Our
Fathers" by Froom, Vol. 3, pg. 52.
Quoted from GREAT PROPHECIES OF THE BIBLE by Woodrow.
©1984-2001 Chick Publications, Inc. All rights reserved
You can add to those names these men that thought the pope is an antichrist:
Wycliff, Tyndale, Sir Isaac Newton, Fox, Finney, Moody, Spurgeon.
Pope's title viacar of christ means antichrist by definition.
.. JESUS CHRIST HAS NO VlCAR. Vicar, from the Latin "vicarius" means "in the
place of" e.g. vicarius sacrifice of Christ being His sacrifice in the place
of the sinner. Papal claims such as infallibility, Head of the Church, Holy
Father, all seek to put the Pope in the place of Christ, which place only
the Living Christ can have. This false assumption of Rome is expressly put
forward in the Papal title "Vicar of Jesus Christ".
The New Testament was written in Greek, and the Greek translation of " vicar
of Christ" is "Anti (instead of)-christos", or in our English Bible,
"Antichrist". The word "Antichrist" is not just a word of wild insult, but
is a Bible warning of the false role assumed by the Popes of Rome as
supposed vicars of Christ, (See 1 John 2:18 D.V.).
The Greek word for "Vice President" is "Anti-Proedros"; Because Anti, which
means opposite, also means "replacement" or "instead", as in Vicar or
Viceroy or Vicarious.
_______________________________________________________________________________
Posted Via Uncensored-News.Com - Accounts Starting At $6.95 - http://www.uncensored-news.com
<><><><><><><> The Worlds Uncensored News Source <><><><><><><><>
.
|
|
|
| User: "Pastor Steve Winter" |
|
| Title: Re: AntiChrist |
08 Jan 2006 06:37:49 PM |
|
|
The word "antichrist" appears 4 time in the Holy Bible in four
separate verses.
1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have
heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many
antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus<2424>
is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the
Son.
1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus<2424>
Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that
spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come;
and even now already is it in the world.
2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who
confess not that Jesus<2424> Christ is come in the flesh. This is
a deceiver and an antichrist.
In each of these verses the word translated as Jesus comes from
reference 2424 Since words do mean things so let us look at the
definition of the word. If we are to understand a Bible verse
then we need to know the meaning of the words used
in that verse, eh?
2424 Iesous {ee-ay-sooce’}
of Hebrew origin 03091; TDNT - 3:284,360; n pr m
AV - Jesus 972, Jesus (Joshua) 2, Jesus (Justus) 1; 975
Jesus = "Jehovah is salvation"
Notice the Hebrew of 03091
03091 Y@howshuwa‘ {yeh-ho-shoo’-ah} or Y@howshu‘a
{yeh-ho-shoo’-ah}
from 03068 and 03467;
AV - Joshua 218; 218
Joshua or Jehoshua = "Jehovah is salvation" n pr m
Then notice the Hebrew for 03068 referred to above:
03068 Y@hovah {yeh-ho-vaw’}
from 01961; TWOT - 484a; n pr dei
AV - LORD 6510, GOD 4, JEHOVAH 4, variant 1; 6519
Jehovah = "the existing One"
1) the proper name of the one true God
1a) unpronounced except with the vowel pointings of 0136
The trinity does not teach that "Jehovah savior" came in the
flesh, but rather teaches that a "second person", or "junior
deity" came in the flesh. Does the trinity teach that Jehovah
died on the cross for your sins or do they teach a "junior
person"?
Many are taught John 3:16 but what about 1 John 3:16
1 John 3:16 Hereby perceive we the love of God, because he laid
down his life for us: and we ought to lay down our lives for the
brethren.
That does not say that a junior god person died on the cross now
does it?
There is also another group of verses that warn particularly
against polytheistic theories, and further declare them capable
of "spoiling".
Colossians 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy
and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments
of the world, and not after Christ.
Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead
bodily.
Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of
all principality and power:
Let us review our original verses and simply substitute Jehovah
for Jesus since we know that is the definition of the word
"Jesus".
1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have
heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many
antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.
1 John 2:22 Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus<2424>
is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and the
Son.
1 John 4:3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus<2424>
Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that
spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come;
and even now already is it in the world.
2 John 1:7 For many deceivers are entered into the world, who
confess not that Jesus<2424> Christ is come in the flesh. This is
a deceiver and an antichrist.
That's right friend. Trinitarianism is not merely stupid foolish
and deceitful, it really is ANTICHRIST!
Consider also this verse regarding the human tendency that man
has to "make up" his own "gods" (If people didn't get a measure
of peace and satisfaction they wouldn't have been worshipping
creations of their own minds for centuries).
Jeremiah 5:7 How shall I pardon thee for this? thy children have
forsaken me, and sworn by [them that are] no gods: when I had fed
them to the full, they then committed adultery, and assembled
themselves by troops in the harlots' houses.
Jeremiah 16:20 Shall a man make gods unto himself, and they [are]
no gods?
Genesis 3:8 And they heard the voice of the LORD God walking in
the garden in the cool of the day: and Adam and his wife hid
themselves from the presence of the LORD God amongst the trees of
the garden.
According to the trinity there would have been 5 pair of feet
walking in the garden in this verse. 1 pair for Adam, 1 pair for
Eve and three pair for the trinity that they were hiding from. Of
course the more scholarly of the trinitarians might suggest that
there were only 4 pair of feet actually walking because god
person #2 was riding on the right hand of god person #1.
Also considering the trinitarian attempt to preach plural gods
from Gen 1:26:
Genesis 1:26 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after
our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the
sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over
all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon
the earth.
Genesis 1:27 So God created man in his [own] image, in the image
of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Shouldn't verse 27 read "created they them"? And if the
"trinity" of three created Adam in "their image", where are the
other two Adam persons? We need two other "persons" here. I
mean, if one "person" can sit on the other "person"'s right hand
then where were Adam's two "co-equal" persons. Then we would
need a trinity of wives.
Yet we have trinitarians who claim to be "one god", Biblically
Christian, and monotheistic. How can this be?
2 Corinthians 11:12 But what I do, that I will do, that I may
cut off occasion from them which desire occasion; that wherein
they glory, they may be found even as we.
13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming
themselves into the apostles of Christ.
14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel
of light.
15 Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be
transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be
according to their works.
In the above verses Paul says that it is Biblical to try to cut
off occasion from the Satanic ministers who will be pretending to
be ministers of righteousness.
Revelation 17:1 ¶ And there came one of the seven angels which
had the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come
hither; I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great *****
that sitteth upon many waters:
2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed fornication,
and the inhabitants of the earth have been made drunk with the
wine of her fornication.
3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I
saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of
blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and
decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden
cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her
fornication:
5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE
GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and
with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I
wondered with great admiration.
Pastor sTeve Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Sanitys little helper" |
|
| Title: Re: AntiChrist |
01 Jan 2006 07:18:41 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 01 Jan 2006 10:13:04 GMT, 70AD wrote:
Folks in the modern church have made much about
a guy that they have called, "The AntiChrist".
But does he even exist? Was a person who is called,
"The AntiChrist" even spoken of, in the Bible?
According to the sidenotes in the Geneva Bible, the Pope is the antichrist.
This is where the likes of The Rev Dr Ian Paisley get it from.
--
Eat, drink and be merry, for tomorrow, we eat, drink and be merry.
D Silverman FLAHN, SMLAHN
AA #2208
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "70AD" |
|
| Title: Re: AntiChrist |
01 Jan 2006 07:39:15 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 1 Jan 2006 22:49:56 +0200, "Lester John"
<lester1john@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> spake thusly:
What the contemporary church refers to as *the* AntiChrist, is referred to
in scripture as the "son of perdition". So there are certainly many
antichrists, but only two sons of perdition (AntiChrists) - one who was, and
another to come.
That is a claim, not proof and you snipped everything
I wrote. And below, you proved what I said to be true.
You take passages that do not mention a person called,
"The AntiChrist" and you insert that title there and
then pretend that it's true and tell us how...
"The AntiChrist is in the Bible"
....you are no different than what I described.
[John 17:12] While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name:
those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son
of perdition (--i.e. Judas Iscariot--); that the scripture might be
fulfilled.
[2 Thess. 2:3] Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not
come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be
revealed, the son of perdition (-- i.e. the AntiChrist);
So it's just a question of terminology. The AntiChrist is the common
terminology these days, but scripturally the same as the "son of perdition".
in Jesus' Name,
Lester
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
"Even if all the evidence pointed to an intelligent
designer, such an hypothesis is excluded from science
because it is not naturalistic." - Scott C. Todd
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bull" |
|
| Title: Re: Re: AntiChrist |
01 Jan 2006 08:04:49 PM |
|
|
On Mon, 02 Jan 2006 01:39:15 GMT, 70AD
<_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sun, 1 Jan 2006 22:49:56 +0200, "Lester John"
<lester1john@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> spake thusly:
What the contemporary church refers to as *the*
AntiChrist, is referred to
in scripture as the "son of perdition". So there
are certainly many
antichrists, but only two sons of perdition
(AntiChrists) - one who was, and
another to come.
That is a claim, not proof and you snipped
everything
I wrote. And below, you proved what I said to be
true.
You take passages that do not mention a person
called,
"The AntiChrist" and you insert that title there
and
then pretend that it's true and tell us how...
"The AntiChrist is in the Bible"
....you are no different than what I described.
[John 17:12] While I was with them in the world,
I kept them in thy name:
those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none
of them is lost, but the son
of perdition (--i.e. Judas Iscariot--); that the
scripture might be
fulfilled.
[2 Thess. 2:3] Let no man deceive you by any
means: for that day shall not
come, except there come a falling away first, and
that man of sin be
revealed, the son of perdition (-- i.e. the
AntiChrist);
So it's just a question of terminology. The
AntiChrist is the common
terminology these days, but scripturally the same
as the "son of perdition".
in Jesus' Name,
Lester
Thumbs up or thumbs down?
-
Omne vivum ex ovo
-
.
|
|
|
| User: "70AD" |
|
| Title: Re: AntiChrist |
03 Jan 2006 01:25:52 PM |
|
|
On Tue, 3 Jan 2006 21:27:13 +0200, "Lester John"
<lester1john@REMOVETHISyahoo.com> spake thusly:
Where does the Bible say any of that?
You people take a thread that I started,
which showed that there is no such
individual, snip everything I said and
then pretend to be honest.
2Th 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come,
except there come a falling away first, and that MAN OF SIN be revealed, THE
SON OF PERDITION;
2Th 2:4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or
that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing
himself that he is God.
Thank you for proving your blindness to anything
that doesn't agree with what you want to believe.
I JUST FINISHED STATING....
That you people INSERT "AntiChrist" into passages
where that word isn't found.
And what did you do?
To convince me that "The AntiChrist" is in the Bible,
you quote a verse that does NOT have that word in it.
Unbelievable!
Now try reading what I wrote and stop thinking that
you are quoting what the Bible says about something,
when you just proved that the Bible doesn't say it.
I.e., Stop being BLINDED BY MAN MADE DOCTRINE
and read what the Bible ACTUALLY says.
The original post was as follows...
****************************************************
Folks in the modern church have made much about
a guy that they have called, "The AntiChrist".
But does he even exist? Was a person who is called,
"The AntiChrist" even spoken of, in the Bible?
Folks have put him into Daniel's prophecy, even though
Daniel never uses the word. They say he is the prince,
even though Daniel identifies the prince as the Messiah
Himself.
"Know therefore and understand, that from the going
forth of the commandment to restore and to build
Jerusalem unto THE MESSIAH THE PRINCE shall be
seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street
shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous
times." - Daniel 9:25
They have him making a seven year covenant and
making war with all of the saints and running the
world. But does the Bible even teach this?
They put him in Revelation and claim he is the beast.
But Revelation doesn't have the word "antichrist"
in it. So isn't that an assumption?
And when they point at this verse and that, aren't
they just again claiming it's the antichrist, because
of an already assumed doctrine?
It seems to me, that whole doctrines have been
invented and then the Bible has been forced
into that doctrine.
So what does the Bible teach about this guy they call,
"The AntiChrist"?
There are four passages in the Bible, that actually
have the word "antichrist" in them and all of them
were written by John and out of John's five writings
in the New Testament, all four mentions of this word
(note I did not say "person"), are found in only two
of his writings and three out of the four, are found
in the same writing and none of them are found
in the Gospel of John, nor Revelation.
All four are found in two of his letters. Three of
them in 1 John and one of them in 2 John. It is
the one in 1 John 2:18 that people use as "proof"
that it is an individual person. None of the other
three are speaking about an individual and no one
debates that.
Let's look at all four verses...
"Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have
heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there
many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the
last time." - 1 John 2:18
"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the
Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and
the Son." - 1 John 2:22
"And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ
is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that
spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it
should come; and even now already is it in the world."
- 1 John 4:3
"For many deceivers are entered into the world, who
confess not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh.
This is a deceiver and an antichrist." - 2 John 1:7
Now folks make a lot out of the first verse listed
and say that it proves that this "antichrist" is a
person. I.e., "The AntiChrist".
As we can see, it is only the first one, 1 John 2:18,
that could even possibly be talking about a single
person, an individual. Thus, it seems that this
entire doctrine has been built on one passage
in the Bible. Does that seem like the right approach
to you?
Let's look at it a little closer and see what it says.
Before commenting, I would like to make note here,
that the word "the" (as in, "the AntiChrist") is not
in the original Greek Scripture. John simply says,
"you have heard that antichrist shall come".
The word "the" is in many Bible translations and many
people make arguments that it should be in there, but
the word "the" is simply not in the original Greek.
He does not say, "You have heard that 'The AntiChrist'
shall come.".
It is important to note however, that for what I'm
about to say, it wouldn't matter if the word "the"
was in there, so please, don't waste your time
arguing about it.
Now as to this Scripture, let's look at it again.
"Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have
heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there
many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the
last time." - 1 John 2:18
Now folks point at that verse and say, "See, there
it is! It says right there that he is coming!".
But we need to remember, John is not giving them
a teaching here. He is RESPONDING to a teaching.
The question is; Is John confirming this teaching?
Or does he have another purpose in mind?
There is another way to look at this.
John did not say, "AntiChrist is coming". He said,
"you HEAVE HEARD that antichrist shall come...".
That doesn't mean he's agreeing with what they heard,
nor that what they heard was the truth.
All John said, is that THEY HEARD that antichrist
was coming. Remember, the letters of the NT were
normally written IN RESPONSE, TO CORRECT
FALSE TEACHINGS.
Thus, that may be the case here. Again, John only
said, "you have heard that antichrist shall come".
So the other option is that John is correcting
a falsehood that was circulating through the
church.
John then goes on to say, "even now many antichrists
have come".
Now, did the prophecies that you have been taught
to think are related to this, by these other writers
of the Bible, predict "multiple antichrists"?
And don't give your interpretation. Don't say they
are forerunners. The Bible doesn't say that.
So do they say it, yes or no? Of course they don't.
And what does John go on to say, just four verses
later, in the same chapter of the same letter?
"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the
Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and
the Son." - 1 John 2:22
You see? It's not one guy. John is correcting a
misguided notion, which is demonstrated by how
he goes on to explain what "antichrist" is.
Think about John correcting them, telling them
that it is not one guy and then read the sentence
above... "He is antichrist, that denieth the Father
and the Son.".
Doesn't it make more sense that way?
Read the verses together and see how it reads now...
"Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have
heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there
many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the
last time." - 1 John 2:18
"Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus is the
Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the Father and
the Son." - 1 John 2:22
You see, John was correcting a Gnostic belief, that
had invaded the church, which is called, "Docetism"
and it taught that Jesus had no human body and
only appeared to be in the flesh and therefore, only
appeared to have died on the cross.
Thus, when John said, "They went out from us,
but they were not of us", he was talking about them.
Now read all of the passages together and see how
they read, knowing this and see if John is correcting
them, or if he was talking about one guy...
1 John 2:18-22
18) Little children, it is the last time: and as ye
have heard that antichrist shall come, even now
are there many antichrists; whereby we know
that it is the last time.
19) They went out from us, but they were not of
us: for if they had been of us, they would no doubt
have continued with us: but they went out, that
they might be made manifest that they were not
all of us.
20) But ye have an unction from the Holy One,
and ye know all things.
21) I have not written unto you because ye know
not the truth, but because ye know it, and that
no lie is of the truth.
22) Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus
is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the
Father and the Son.
Now read what John says later in the same letter
and see that he is clearly CORRECTING them
and NOT confirming what they were taught about
it being one guy.
Note that he said that they heard "antichrist shall
come". Remember that term.
Now read what he says later in the same letter,
remembering the Docetism I told you about...
1 John 4:2:3
2) Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit
that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the
flesh is of God:
3) And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus
Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and this
is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard
that it should come; and even now already is it in
the world.
Note he uses the same term! He is saying that
this is what you heard is coming! The SPIRIT
that denies that Jesus came in the flesh!
Note that if we are granting the word "the", in
1 John 2:18 and that they believed it was to be
one guy, then what John said in response, is
clearly a correction of this false doctrine of
"one guy".
Read it altogether now and note that John is teaching
not only that antichrist was already in the world,
but that it was ALREADY THE LAST TIME. And
if we translate it literally, he said that it is the
"LAST HOUR". So pay attention to the "ye have
heard" phrase in the following...
1 John 2:18-22; 4:2-3
18) Little children, it is the last time: and as YE
HAVE HEARD that antichrist shall come, even
now are there many antichrists; whereby we
know that it is the last time.
19) They went out from us, but they were not of
us: for if they had been of us, they would no doubt
have continued with us: but they went out, that
they might be made manifest that they were not
all of us.
20) But ye have an unction from the Holy One,
and ye know all things.
21) I have not written unto you because ye know
not the truth, but because ye know it, and that
no lie is of the truth.
22) Who is a liar but he that denieth that Jesus
is the Christ? He is antichrist, that denieth the
Father and the Son.
2) Hereby know ye the Spirit of God: Every spirit
that confesseth that Jesus Christ is come in the
flesh is of God:
3) And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus
Christ is come in the flesh is not of God: and THIS
IS THAT spirit of antichrist, WHEREOF YE HAVE
HEARD that it should come; and even now already
is it in the world.
As I said, it seems that John here, is actually
correcting a misguided notion, that the people
are to wait for a single individual and does so,
by telling them that there are antichrists already
in the world, because of the false doctrine of
Docetism and because it is a spirit that denies
the Father and the Son and/or that Jesus came
in the flesh. So why would they wait for what is
already here? And why would they wait for an
individual, when it is not an individual, but a
false belief?
John said, very clearly, that the antichrist that they
heard was coming, is simply "every spirit that does
not confess that Jesus Christ came in the flesh".
He says, "*_THIS IS_* *_THAT_* spirit of ANTICHRIST,
which YOU HEARD SHOULD COME".
I.e., It's NOT an individual folks.
Think about it. Are we Mormons here? :)
The spirit of an individual does not proceed
the individual. :)
He is saying, "The thing happening NOW is what you
heard would come and is not an individual. You were
misguided by someone who told you to look for an
individual, when in reality, it is Docetism, that is
antichrist.".
Folks should really read their Bible's carefully and
compare them to what their preachers say. They would
be amazed at what is NOT in there and what is in there
and is ignored. Their churches are taking just a few
verses, telling them that this means that and wooden
weapons equal machine guns and tanks and the people
are swallowing this garbage hook, line and sinker.
There is no one individual "AntiChrist" listed anywhere
in the Bible! As I said, what John was fighting in
that letter, was a belief called, "Docetism", which
is defined as follows...
Docetism: An opinion especially associated with
the Gnostics that Jesus had no human body and
only appeared to have died on the cross.
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=docetism
That's right, the church he was writing to, had
Gnostics trying to influence them. John was
correcting their false teaching. Remember,
as I said, many of the letters in the NT were
written as responses to questions and problems.
NOW read the letter from John, along with what I have
said earlier in this message and taking Docetism into
account and his letter will come alive for you, with
new meaning! Read it carefully and slowly and let God
speak to you through it. Yes, folks, BE BEREANS!
Read Acts 17:10-12 and you'll find that the Bereans
were considered more noble, because they didn't believe
Paul right away. He preached and they went home and
studied the Scripture to see, "whether those things
were so". And they were so. And because of that, the
Bible tells us, "THEREFORE", many of them believed".
I.e., if it's not there, in the writer's own words,
don't you believe it!
I recommend reading all of 1 John right now, carefully
and slowly and without preconceived notions.
John defines what antichrist is:
"And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ
is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that
spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it
should come; and even now already is it in the world."
- 1 John 4:3
It is not an individual. Nor is John talking about the
spirit of antichrist coming from one man and taking
control of the people. Satan doesn't have that power.
He is not God. "Resist him and he will flee from you".
Remember that? To make these kinds of claims, puts
Satan on equal footing with God. And that is
ridiculous!
And don't forget a VERY IMPORTANT part of
the same verse that is quoted. John tells us that...
"many antichrists" are already in the world and
he says that "by this we know it is the last hour".
Now note, he doesn't say that they know that the last
hour is COMING. Nor does he say when THE AntiChrist
arrives, that it will be the last hour. No, he says
that because many antichrists are ALREADY IN THE
WORLD, they know that "*_ IT IS_* the last hour".
Let's look at a quick verse break down.
"Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have
heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there
many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last
time." - 1 John 2:18
1) Little children, it IS the last time. Not,
"will be", but *_IS_*.
2) You heard that AntiChrist shall come.
3) Even now there are many antichrists.
4) Again... By this we know IT IS the last time.
They heard that AntiChrist would come. Yet at that
moment, there were many antichrists. By that, they
should know it is the last time. Not, "you will know",
but they DO know it IS the last time.
Later in the same letter, John says...
"And every spirit that confesseth not that Jesus Christ
is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that
spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it
should come; and even now already is it in the world."
- 1 John 4:3
Again, John corrected them here. What they heard
should come as an individual, was actually a belief
we call Docetism and was already in the world.
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose
you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which
your fathers served that were on the other side of the
flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye
dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the
LORD. - Joshua 24:15
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
