Apostasy in the Christian church



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Topic: Religions > Bible
User: "Carl"
Date: 27 Nov 2007 12:43:43 PM
Object: Apostasy in the Christian church
The following is an interesting article concerning apostasy in the Christian
church. Although I am not completely in agreement with all the points made
therein, I present it "as is" since it does contain Biblical truths.
May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
---
Apostasy in the Christian church
from www.carm.org
"Let no one in any way deceive you, for it [Jesus' return] will not come
unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the
son of destruction" (2 Thess. 2:3, NASB).
Apostasy means to fall away from the truth. Therefore, an apostate is
someone who has once believed and then rejected the truth of God. Apostasy
is a rebellion against God because it is a rebellion against truth. In the
Old Testament, God warned the Jewish people about their idolatry and their
lack of trust in Him. In the New Testament, the epistles warn us about not
falling away from the truth. Apostasy is a very real and dangerous threat.
The verse at the top of the page tells us that there will be an apostasy
that is associated with the appearance of the Antichrist. Most Christians
are looking for the arrival of the Antichrist, but very few are looking for
"the apostasy" that must come first. The arrival of the Antichrist cannot
occur until sufficient apostasy has happened in the world. The Antichrist,
who is the ultimate of liars, cannot abide in a world where the truth of
God's word is taught. This is why the Bible says that the apostasy will
come first and then the Antichrist will be revealed.
Therefore, we must, as Christians, ask this question, "Is there an apostasy
occurring in the Christian church today?" Some would say no and others yes.
But, as we look for the arrival of the Antichrist, should we not also be
looking for the arrival of apostasy? And where else should we first look
but in our own house, for the Bible tells us that judgment will begin in the
house of the Lord (1 Peter 4:17)?
If there is indeed an apostasy occurring in the Christian Church, we would
not know it unless we first examined the Bible closely and then compared the
Church to the Word of God. It is only after truth is established that we
would then have a measuring rod by which apostasy can be detected.
Therefore, I propose the following list of biblical truths as a sample of
essential Christian and non-essential doctrines by which we might compare
other teachings and phenomena. Note that this is not absolute, and the
nuances of several can be debated as not all will agree with the
categorization of all points.
Primary Essentials (Nature and work of Christ) - Cannot deny and be
Christian, since they are explicitly stated as required in Scripture.
Jesus is both God and man (John 1:1,14;8:24; Col. 2:9; 1 John 4:1-4).
Jesus rose from the dead physically (John 2:19-21).
Salvation is by grace through faith (Rom. 5:1; Eph. 2:8-9; Gal. 5:1-5).
The gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus (1 Cor. 15:1-4;
Gal. 1:8-9).
There is only one God (Exodus 20:1-3; Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8).
Secondary Essentials - (Nature of God) Cannot deny and be Christian.
God exists as a Trinity of persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. (See
Trinity)
Virgin Birth of Jesus - relates to incarnation of Christ as God and man.
Primary Non-Essentials (Bible, Church ordinances, and practice) - Denial
does not void salvation, yet principles are clearly taught in Scripture.
Denial suggests apostasy.
Male eldership and pastorate
Fidelity in marriage in heterosexual relationships
The condemnation of homosexuality
Inerrancy of Scripture
Secondary Non-Essentials - does not affect one's salvation relationship with
God. Debated within Christianity. Denial or acceptance does not suggest
apostasy.
Baptism for adults or infants
Predestination, election, and free will
Communion every week, monthly, or quarterly, etc.
Saturday or Sunday Worship
Worship with or without instruments, traditional or contemporary.
Pretribulation rapture, midtribulation rapture, posttribulation rapture.
Premillennialism, amillennialism, and post millennialism.
Continuation or cessation of the charismatic gifts
Etc.
Of course, the non-essentials are debatable (which unfortunately leads to
denominational fragmentation). But by way of explanation, the Primary
Essentials are those doctrines that the Bible states if they are denied,
damnation follows. I have written on this in Essential Doctrines. For
brevity, the Bible states that if you deny Jesus is God, you are dead in
your sins (John 8:24,58 cf. Exodus 3:14); that if you deny Jesus' physical
resurrection, your faith is in vain (1 Cor. 15:14, cf. John 2:19-21); that
if you add works to salvation, you are not in Christ (Gal. 3:1-3; 5:1-4);
and that if you preach a gospel contrary to what the apostles preached, you
are accursed (Gal. 1:8-9, cf., 1 Cor. 15:1-4). Therefore, to deny any of
these doctrines, according to Scripture, is to be outside the camp of Christ
and invited to eternal damnation. This would obviously be apostasy.
The Secondary Essentials are essentials that further clarify orthodoxy, but
there is no explicitly Scriptural statement regarding each (that I am aware
of) which states that denying them results in damnation the way the Primary
Essentials do. The Secondary Essentials deal with the nature of God,
primarily. The fact that there is one God, who is a Trinity, is clearly
essential to Christian orthodoxy, but there is no Scriptural statement
stating that to believe in the Trinity is necessary for salvation. However,
that does not mean that denial of the Trinity is acceptable. A person can
be saved without knowing about the Trinity. But, since the Trinity is a
biblical truth, and the believer is indwelt by the Holy Spirit who bears
witness of truth, a true Christian will not openly denounce the Trinity once
he has been taught it from Scripture. So, it could be said that the
Secondary Essentials are essentials to the faith as well as the Primary
Essentials are.
The Primary Non-Essentials are biblical teachings that if denied do not
affect one's salvation. But, because the Bible teaches then, denying them
is a sign of apostasy. The Secondary Non-Essentials do not affect one's
position with God, nor do they affirm or deny biblical teaching since they
are debatable. Having differing beliefs in these is not a sign of apostasy,
just differences of opinion. Again, I am aware that the categorization of
the non-essentials is debatable, but I must draw the line somewhere. Sadly,
it is in Secondary non-essential doctrines that most denominational
fragmentation occurs. This is a sad display that most division occurs over
that which is least important. Furthermore, I believe that it is in the
area of the Non-Essentials that apostasy can first be detected.
2 Thessalonians 2
As quoted above, there is a prophecy in 2 Thessalonians about a coming
apostasy that is associated with the disclosure of the Antichrist.
"Let no one in any way deceive you, for it [Jesus' return] will not come
unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the
son of destruction" (2 Thess. 2:3, NASB).
Have you been looking for the coming of the Antichrist? Are you waiting for
him to pop up on the world scene? If you are, are you also looking for the
related apostasy? Most Christians are looking for the Antichrist but are
not looking for signs of apostasy.
The Bible is God's word and it tells us what is right and wrong. To the
degree that anyone disagrees with the truths of God's word, to that same
degree they are falling away from it. What, then, might be some of the
signs of apostasy? I've compiled a representative list of issues. You may
or may not agree with all of these, but I provide them as food for thought.
Denial of basic Christian doctrines such as the Trinity, the deity of
Christ, the deity of the Holy Spirit, salvation by grace, and moral
absolutes as found in the Bible.
God's word is true. Deviation from the basics of its truth is surely
apostasy.\
Countless denominational divisions that contradict John 13:35 and 1 Cor.
1:10.
Of course, there are bound to be divisions in the body of Christ and
differences of opinions are permitted (Rom. 14:1-12). But, the amount of
divisions in the Church is ridiculous and contrary to Col. 3:14.
Ordination of homosexuals
Homosexuality is clearly condemned in God's word (Lev. 18:22; 1 Cor. 6:9).
To ordain homosexuals into ministry is clearly contrary to biblical truth
and clearly apostasy.
Women elders and pastors
Whether people like it or not in this politically correct environment, the
Bible does not support women as elders or as pastors (1 Tim. 2:12-14; 3:2;
Titus 1:5-7). Men are called to be leaders in the church. The fact that
women elders and pastors exist is a sign that men are not doing their
God-given job.
Also, if you believe in women pastors and elders, do not dismiss this
article. You must always examine yourself to see if what you believe is
biblical.
Not preaching the gospel per 1 Cor. 15:1-4.
The gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus for our sins. It
is not a message of convenience or embarrassment. Do not be ashamed of the
gospel (Rom. 1:16).
Using the Lord's name in vain, something a surprising number of Christians
do.
God's name and title are to be used only by Christians in a reverent and
respectful manner, never in casual exclamation. Just because the sinners do
it does not mean it is okay for the Christians.
Not sending out or failing to support missionaries (or cutting back
unnecessarily) in violation of Matt. 28:18-20.
Carrying out the Great Commission is the command of Jesus. Any church that
is able to support missionary work and does not do it is in direct violation
of Christ's command in the Great Commission.
Marketing and merchandising
Those in ministry should make a living from their labor. Churches should
seek to spread the gospel as best they can and selling things to do it is
acceptable. But, how many trinkets and bobbles are offered in the name of
Christ that do not honor God but are merely for the purpose of financial
gain? Is the duty of the church business or the gospel? Remember how Jesus
cleansed the temple?
Pastors who are more concerned with growing a church than preaching the
truth.
Whoever and wherever they are, they need to repent. Pastors must stand on
the truth of God's word, even if it costs them financially and materially.
Pastors who don't pray and seek God's face
Of course, this should be rare. But, any pastor who does not seek God's
face in humility is seeking to do a job, not a ministry, under his own
power.
Pastors who cave in to pressures from the church in contradiction to the
word of God.
Any pastor who does this should repent now or step down from the pulpit.
Pastors are to stand upon and for God's word, no matter what the obstacles
or the cost.
Pastors who fail to equip their congregations according to God's word.
Pastors are called to equip the Christian for the work of the ministry in
all aspects of life (Eph. 4:11): apologetics, evangelism, missionary work,
prayer, service, love, etc. Far too many congregations are not being
equipped with even the basics of Christianity and are instead being taught
political correctness.
Pastors who don't teach damnation.
We are not saying that you must preach fire and brimstone all the time. But
the fact is, the gospel that offends no one is not the gospel of the Bible.
The truth of the gospel is that people will face damnation. This is part of
the Christian message, and it should be part of Christian preaching.
Christians gathering teachers to themselves to make them feel good
Is comfort or truth the primary objective for the Christians? Are we divine
in nature or sinners saved by grace? Do we deserve to be saved or are we
saved by God's free choice? Christians who want merely to be entertained
and comforted from the pulpit are still children. They should be challenged
to grow and take risks.
Evolution
Denominations that either adopt evolutionary principles or refuse to take a
stand on evolution.
Apostasy is all around us in varying degrees. As Christians, we need to be
very sure that we are clinging to the truth of God's word and resisting the
inclusion of liberalism, moral relativism, and the oncoming secularism that
is all around us. We need to stand on the word of God and never be ashamed
of the truth of the Gospel:
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for
salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek"
(Rom. 1:16).
.

User: "Bible Bob"

Title: Re: Apostasy in the Christian church 28 Nov 2007 08:53:52 AM
On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:43:43 -0500, "Carl" <saints@nettally.com>
wrote:

The following is an interesting article concerning apostasy in the Christian
church. Although I am not completely in agreement with all the points made
therein, I present it "as is" since it does contain Biblical truths.

May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/

Carl,
False doctrine. There is no apostasy or backsliding in the Christian
church. That is spiritually impossible. No child of God is able to
backslide out of the family of God. Backslide is an OT term; not used
in the NT. Apostasy is a false doctrine and a word invented by
religious philosophers to control people in the church. See my
response to your 2 Thessalonians 2:3 where I prove the docrine false.
You are a false teacher and a false prophet. A false prophet pretends
to speak for God but speaks for the devil as you do. You do not
promote the doctrines of God; but the doctrines of the devil.
It is time for you to repent.
BB


Apostasy in the Christian church
from www.carm.org

"Let no one in any way deceive you, for it [Jesus' return] will not come
unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the
son of destruction" (2 Thess. 2:3, NASB).

Apostasy means to fall away from the truth. Therefore, an apostate is
someone who has once believed and then rejected the truth of God. Apostasy
is a rebellion against God because it is a rebellion against truth. In the
Old Testament, God warned the Jewish people about their idolatry and their
lack of trust in Him. In the New Testament, the epistles warn us about not
falling away from the truth. Apostasy is a very real and dangerous threat.

The verse at the top of the page tells us that there will be an apostasy
that is associated with the appearance of the Antichrist. Most Christians
are looking for the arrival of the Antichrist, but very few are looking for
"the apostasy" that must come first. The arrival of the Antichrist cannot
occur until sufficient apostasy has happened in the world. The Antichrist,
who is the ultimate of liars, cannot abide in a world where the truth of
God's word is taught. This is why the Bible says that the apostasy will
come first and then the Antichrist will be revealed.

Therefore, we must, as Christians, ask this question, "Is there an apostasy
occurring in the Christian church today?" Some would say no and others yes.
But, as we look for the arrival of the Antichrist, should we not also be
looking for the arrival of apostasy? And where else should we first look
but in our own house, for the Bible tells us that judgment will begin in the
house of the Lord (1 Peter 4:17)?

If there is indeed an apostasy occurring in the Christian Church, we would
not know it unless we first examined the Bible closely and then compared the
Church to the Word of God. It is only after truth is established that we
would then have a measuring rod by which apostasy can be detected.
Therefore, I propose the following list of biblical truths as a sample of
essential Christian and non-essential doctrines by which we might compare
other teachings and phenomena. Note that this is not absolute, and the
nuances of several can be debated as not all will agree with the
categorization of all points.

Primary Essentials (Nature and work of Christ) - Cannot deny and be
Christian, since they are explicitly stated as required in Scripture.

Jesus is both God and man (John 1:1,14;8:24; Col. 2:9; 1 John 4:1-4).

Jesus rose from the dead physically (John 2:19-21).

Salvation is by grace through faith (Rom. 5:1; Eph. 2:8-9; Gal. 5:1-5).

The gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus (1 Cor. 15:1-4;
Gal. 1:8-9).

There is only one God (Exodus 20:1-3; Isaiah 43:10; 44:6,8).

Secondary Essentials - (Nature of God) Cannot deny and be Christian.

God exists as a Trinity of persons: Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. (See
Trinity)

Virgin Birth of Jesus - relates to incarnation of Christ as God and man.

Primary Non-Essentials (Bible, Church ordinances, and practice) - Denial
does not void salvation, yet principles are clearly taught in Scripture.
Denial suggests apostasy.
Male eldership and pastorate
Fidelity in marriage in heterosexual relationships
The condemnation of homosexuality
Inerrancy of Scripture

Secondary Non-Essentials - does not affect one's salvation relationship with
God. Debated within Christianity. Denial or acceptance does not suggest
apostasy.
Baptism for adults or infants
Predestination, election, and free will
Communion every week, monthly, or quarterly, etc.
Saturday or Sunday Worship
Worship with or without instruments, traditional or contemporary.
Pretribulation rapture, midtribulation rapture, posttribulation rapture.
Premillennialism, amillennialism, and post millennialism.
Continuation or cessation of the charismatic gifts
Etc.

Of course, the non-essentials are debatable (which unfortunately leads to
denominational fragmentation). But by way of explanation, the Primary
Essentials are those doctrines that the Bible states if they are denied,
damnation follows. I have written on this in Essential Doctrines. For
brevity, the Bible states that if you deny Jesus is God, you are dead in
your sins (John 8:24,58 cf. Exodus 3:14); that if you deny Jesus' physical
resurrection, your faith is in vain (1 Cor. 15:14, cf. John 2:19-21); that
if you add works to salvation, you are not in Christ (Gal. 3:1-3; 5:1-4);
and that if you preach a gospel contrary to what the apostles preached, you
are accursed (Gal. 1:8-9, cf., 1 Cor. 15:1-4). Therefore, to deny any of
these doctrines, according to Scripture, is to be outside the camp of Christ
and invited to eternal damnation. This would obviously be apostasy.

The Secondary Essentials are essentials that further clarify orthodoxy, but
there is no explicitly Scriptural statement regarding each (that I am aware
of) which states that denying them results in damnation the way the Primary
Essentials do. The Secondary Essentials deal with the nature of God,
primarily. The fact that there is one God, who is a Trinity, is clearly
essential to Christian orthodoxy, but there is no Scriptural statement
stating that to believe in the Trinity is necessary for salvation. However,
that does not mean that denial of the Trinity is acceptable. A person can
be saved without knowing about the Trinity. But, since the Trinity is a
biblical truth, and the believer is indwelt by the Holy Spirit who bears
witness of truth, a true Christian will not openly denounce the Trinity once
he has been taught it from Scripture. So, it could be said that the
Secondary Essentials are essentials to the faith as well as the Primary
Essentials are.

The Primary Non-Essentials are biblical teachings that if denied do not
affect one's salvation. But, because the Bible teaches then, denying them
is a sign of apostasy. The Secondary Non-Essentials do not affect one's
position with God, nor do they affirm or deny biblical teaching since they
are debatable. Having differing beliefs in these is not a sign of apostasy,
just differences of opinion. Again, I am aware that the categorization of
the non-essentials is debatable, but I must draw the line somewhere. Sadly,
it is in Secondary non-essential doctrines that most denominational
fragmentation occurs. This is a sad display that most division occurs over
that which is least important. Furthermore, I believe that it is in the
area of the Non-Essentials that apostasy can first be detected.

2 Thessalonians 2
As quoted above, there is a prophecy in 2 Thessalonians about a coming
apostasy that is associated with the disclosure of the Antichrist.
"Let no one in any way deceive you, for it [Jesus' return] will not come
unless the apostasy comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the
son of destruction" (2 Thess. 2:3, NASB).

Have you been looking for the coming of the Antichrist? Are you waiting for
him to pop up on the world scene? If you are, are you also looking for the
related apostasy? Most Christians are looking for the Antichrist but are
not looking for signs of apostasy.

The Bible is God's word and it tells us what is right and wrong. To the
degree that anyone disagrees with the truths of God's word, to that same
degree they are falling away from it. What, then, might be some of the
signs of apostasy? I've compiled a representative list of issues. You may
or may not agree with all of these, but I provide them as food for thought.

Denial of basic Christian doctrines such as the Trinity, the deity of
Christ, the deity of the Holy Spirit, salvation by grace, and moral
absolutes as found in the Bible.
God's word is true. Deviation from the basics of its truth is surely
apostasy.\

Countless denominational divisions that contradict John 13:35 and 1 Cor.
1:10.

Of course, there are bound to be divisions in the body of Christ and
differences of opinions are permitted (Rom. 14:1-12). But, the amount of
divisions in the Church is ridiculous and contrary to Col. 3:14.

Ordination of homosexuals
Homosexuality is clearly condemned in God's word (Lev. 18:22; 1 Cor. 6:9).
To ordain homosexuals into ministry is clearly contrary to biblical truth
and clearly apostasy.

Women elders and pastors
Whether people like it or not in this politically correct environment, the
Bible does not support women as elders or as pastors (1 Tim. 2:12-14; 3:2;
Titus 1:5-7). Men are called to be leaders in the church. The fact that
women elders and pastors exist is a sign that men are not doing their
God-given job.

Also, if you believe in women pastors and elders, do not dismiss this
article. You must always examine yourself to see if what you believe is
biblical.

Not preaching the gospel per 1 Cor. 15:1-4.

The gospel is the death, burial, and resurrection of Jesus for our sins. It
is not a message of convenience or embarrassment. Do not be ashamed of the
gospel (Rom. 1:16).

Using the Lord's name in vain, something a surprising number of Christians
do.

God's name and title are to be used only by Christians in a reverent and
respectful manner, never in casual exclamation. Just because the sinners do
it does not mean it is okay for the Christians.

Not sending out or failing to support missionaries (or cutting back
unnecessarily) in violation of Matt. 28:18-20.

Carrying out the Great Commission is the command of Jesus. Any church that
is able to support missionary work and does not do it is in direct violation
of Christ's command in the Great Commission.

Marketing and merchandising

Those in ministry should make a living from their labor. Churches should
seek to spread the gospel as best they can and selling things to do it is
acceptable. But, how many trinkets and bobbles are offered in the name of
Christ that do not honor God but are merely for the purpose of financial
gain? Is the duty of the church business or the gospel? Remember how Jesus
cleansed the temple?

Pastors who are more concerned with growing a church than preaching the
truth.

Whoever and wherever they are, they need to repent. Pastors must stand on
the truth of God's word, even if it costs them financially and materially.

Pastors who don't pray and seek God's face

Of course, this should be rare. But, any pastor who does not seek God's
face in humility is seeking to do a job, not a ministry, under his own
power.

Pastors who cave in to pressures from the church in contradiction to the
word of God.

Any pastor who does this should repent now or step down from the pulpit.
Pastors are to stand upon and for God's word, no matter what the obstacles
or the cost.

Pastors who fail to equip their congregations according to God's word.

Pastors are called to equip the Christian for the work of the ministry in
all aspects of life (Eph. 4:11): apologetics, evangelism, missionary work,
prayer, service, love, etc. Far too many congregations are not being
equipped with even the basics of Christianity and are instead being taught
political correctness.

Pastors who don't teach damnation.

We are not saying that you must preach fire and brimstone all the time. But
the fact is, the gospel that offends no one is not the gospel of the Bible.
The truth of the gospel is that people will face damnation. This is part of
the Christian message, and it should be part of Christian preaching.

Christians gathering teachers to themselves to make them feel good

Is comfort or truth the primary objective for the Christians? Are we divine
in nature or sinners saved by grace? Do we deserve to be saved or are we
saved by God's free choice? Christians who want merely to be entertained
and comforted from the pulpit are still children. They should be challenged
to grow and take risks.

Evolution

Denominations that either adopt evolutionary principles or refuse to take a
stand on evolution.

Apostasy is all around us in varying degrees. As Christians, we need to be
very sure that we are clinging to the truth of God's word and resisting the
inclusion of liberalism, moral relativism, and the oncoming secularism that
is all around us. We need to stand on the word of God and never be ashamed
of the truth of the Gospel:
"For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for
salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek"
(Rom. 1:16).


BB
http://www.biblebob.net
Nothing so completely baffles one who is full of trick and duplicity
himself, than straightforward and simple integrity in another.
Charles Caleb Colton, author and clergyman (1780-1832)
.
User: "john w"

Title: Re: Apostasy in the Christian church 28 Nov 2007 12:58:09 PM
x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 09:53:52 -0500, Bible Bob <biblebob@saintly.com>
wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.

On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:43:43 -0500, "Carl" <saints@nettally.com>
wrote:

The following is an interesting article concerning apostasy in the Christian
church. Although I am not completely in agreement with all the points made
therein, I present it "as is" since it does contain Biblical truths.

May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/



Carl,

False doctrine. There is no apostasy or backsliding in the Christian
church.

You are not an authority on church doctrine, or on Christian
theology. Because you are not a Christian.
That is spiritually impossible. No child of God is able to

backslide out of the family of God.

And-- typically-- you are misusing the term.
john w
.
User: "Bible Bob"

Title: Re: Apostasy in the Christian church 28 Nov 2007 10:25:15 PM
On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:58:09 -0800, john w <johnw<no>@yahoo.com>
wrote:

x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 09:53:52 -0500, Bible Bob <biblebob@saintly.com>
wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.

On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:43:43 -0500, "Carl" <saints@nettally.com>
wrote:

The following is an interesting article concerning apostasy in the Christian
church. Although I am not completely in agreement with all the points made
therein, I present it "as is" since it does contain Biblical truths.

May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/



Carl,

False doctrine. There is no apostasy or backsliding in the Christian
church.


You are not an authority on church doctrine, or on Christian
theology. Because you are not a Christian.


That is spiritually impossible. No child of God is able to

backslide out of the family of God.


And-- typically-- you are misusing the term.

john w

Jw,
Not so.
Thankyou for the compliment about me not be an expert on church
docrine. I chose to believe the word of God over the words of men.
I am not misusing terms. You are the son of your father and mother.
Nothing you can do can change the genetic relationship between you and
your oarents and siblings. We are born again of incorruptible seed
and nothing we can do can corrupt that spiritual seed within us. No
child of God can backslide out of the family of God. It is
impossible.
BB
http://www.biblebob.net
Nothing so completely baffles one who is full of trick and duplicity
himself, than straightforward and simple integrity in another.
Charles Caleb Colton, author and clergyman (1780-1832)
.
User: "john w"

Title: Re: Apostasy in the Christian church 29 Nov 2007 01:52:51 AM
x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 23:25:15 -0500, Bible Bob <biblebob@saintly.com>
wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.

On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:58:09 -0800, john w <johnw<no>@yahoo.com>
wrote:

x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 09:53:52 -0500, Bible Bob <biblebob@saintly.com>
wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.

On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:43:43 -0500, "Carl" <saints@nettally.com>
wrote:

The following is an interesting article concerning apostasy in the Christian
church. Although I am not completely in agreement with all the points made
therein, I present it "as is" since it does contain Biblical truths.

May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/



Carl,

False doctrine. There is no apostasy or backsliding in the Christian
church.


You are not an authority on church doctrine, or on Christian
theology. Because you are not a Christian.


That is spiritually impossible. No child of God is able to

backslide out of the family of God.


And-- typically-- you are misusing the term.

john w


Jw,

Not so.

Thankyou for the compliment about me not be an expert on church
docrine.

You mis-understand, as usual. I paid you NO compliments.
If you took any of my words as "compliments", you twisted my words--
as usual.
I chose to believe the word of God over the words of men.
^ ^ But you DON'T! ^ ^
I have posted many passages from scripture that you garbled.


snip
john w
.
User: "Bible Bob"

Title: Re: Apostasy in the Christian church 29 Nov 2007 05:43:17 AM
On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 23:52:51 -0800, john w <johnw<no>@yahoo.com>
wrote:

x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 23:25:15 -0500, Bible Bob <biblebob@saintly.com>
wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.

On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:58:09 -0800, john w <johnw<no>@yahoo.com>
wrote:

x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 09:53:52 -0500, Bible Bob <biblebob@saintly.com>
wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.

On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:43:43 -0500, "Carl" <saints@nettally.com>
wrote:

The following is an interesting article concerning apostasy in the Christian
church. Although I am not completely in agreement with all the points made
therein, I present it "as is" since it does contain Biblical truths.

May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/



Carl,

False doctrine. There is no apostasy or backsliding in the Christian
church.


You are not an authority on church doctrine, or on Christian
theology. Because you are not a Christian.


That is spiritually impossible. No child of God is able to

backslide out of the family of God.


And-- typically-- you are misusing the term.

john w


Jw,

Not so.

Thankyou for the compliment about me not be an expert on church
docrine.


You mis-understand, as usual. I paid you NO compliments.

If you took any of my words as "compliments", you twisted my words--
as usual.

I chose to believe the word of God over the words of men.

^ ^ But you DON'T! ^ ^

I have posted many passages from scripture that you garbled.


snip

john w

jw,
You are famous for making claims. You are also famous for making
unsubstantiated claims. And you are famous for making false claims.
The latter applies this time.
BB
http://www.biblebob.net
Nothing so completely baffles one who is full of trick and duplicity
himself, than straightforward and simple integrity in another.
Charles Caleb Colton, author and clergyman (1780-1832)
.
User: "john w"

Title: Re: Apostasy in the Christian church 29 Nov 2007 02:48:17 PM
x-no-archive: yes
On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 06:43:17 -0500, Bible Bob <biblebob@saintly.com>
wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.

On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 23:52:51 -0800, john w <johnw<no>@yahoo.com>
wrote:

x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 23:25:15 -0500, Bible Bob <biblebob@saintly.com>
wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.

On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:58:09 -0800, john w <johnw<no>@yahoo.com>
wrote:

x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 09:53:52 -0500, Bible Bob <biblebob@saintly.com>
wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.

On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:43:43 -0500, "Carl" <saints@nettally.com>
wrote:

The following is an interesting article concerning apostasy in the Christian
church. Although I am not completely in agreement with all the points made
therein, I present it "as is" since it does contain Biblical truths.

May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/



Carl,

False doctrine. There is no apostasy or backsliding in the Christian
church.


You are not an authority on church doctrine, or on Christian
theology. Because you are not a Christian.


That is spiritually impossible. No child of God is able to

backslide out of the family of God.


And-- typically-- you are misusing the term.

john w


Jw,

Not so.

Thankyou for the compliment about me not be an expert on church
docrine.


You mis-understand, as usual. I paid you NO compliments.

If you took any of my words as "compliments", you twisted my words--
as usual.

I chose to believe the word of God over the words of men.

^ ^ But you DON'T! ^ ^

I have posted many passages from scripture that you garbled.


snip

john w


jw,

You a

snip
You truly aren't worthy of my time.
When He comes, He will deal with you!
In the meantime, I don't have to deal with you.
I -- and others-- have tried to share the gospel with you; you have
thrown it back in our faces.
My obligation to you is LONG since fulfilled.
john w
.
User: "Bible Bob"

Title: Re: Apostasy in the Christian church 29 Nov 2007 03:00:40 PM
On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 12:48:17 -0800, john w <johnw<no>@yahoo.com>
wrote:

x-no-archive: yes
On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 06:43:17 -0500, Bible Bob <biblebob@saintly.com>
wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.

On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 23:52:51 -0800, john w <johnw<no>@yahoo.com>
wrote:

x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 23:25:15 -0500, Bible Bob <biblebob@saintly.com>
wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.

On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:58:09 -0800, john w <johnw<no>@yahoo.com>
wrote:

x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 09:53:52 -0500, Bible Bob <biblebob@saintly.com>
wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.

On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:43:43 -0500, "Carl" <saints@nettally.com>
wrote:

The following is an interesting article concerning apostasy in the Christian
church. Although I am not completely in agreement with all the points made
therein, I present it "as is" since it does contain Biblical truths.

May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/



Carl,

False doctrine. There is no apostasy or backsliding in the Christian
church.


You are not an authority on church doctrine, or on Christian
theology. Because you are not a Christian.


That is spiritually impossible. No child of God is able to

backslide out of the family of God.


And-- typically-- you are misusing the term.

john w


Jw,

Not so.

Thankyou for the compliment about me not be an expert on church
docrine.


You mis-understand, as usual. I paid you NO compliments.

If you took any of my words as "compliments", you twisted my words--
as usual.

I chose to believe the word of God over the words of men.

^ ^ But you DON'T! ^ ^

I have posted many passages from scripture that you garbled.


snip

john w


jw,

You a


snip

You truly aren't worthy of my time.

When He comes, He will deal with you!

In the meantime, I don't have to deal with you.

I -- and others-- have tried to share the gospel with you; you have
thrown it back in our faces.

My obligation to you is LONG since fulfilled.



john w

jw,
Not according to God and the Lord Jesus Christ.
BB
http://www.biblebob.net
Nothing so completely baffles one who is full of trick and duplicity
himself, than straightforward and simple integrity in another.
Charles Caleb Colton, author and clergyman (1780-1832)
.
User: "john w"

Title: Re: Apostasy in the Christian church 29 Nov 2007 09:29:41 PM
x-no-archive: yes
On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 16:00:40 -0500, Bible Bob <biblebob@saintly.com>
wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.

On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 12:48:17 -0800, john w <johnw<no>@yahoo.com>
wrote:

x-no-archive: yes
On Thu, 29 Nov 2007 06:43:17 -0500, Bible Bob <biblebob@saintly.com>
wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.

On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 23:52:51 -0800, john w <johnw<no>@yahoo.com>
wrote:

x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 23:25:15 -0500, Bible Bob <biblebob@saintly.com>
wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.

On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:58:09 -0800, john w <johnw<no>@yahoo.com>
wrote:

x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 09:53:52 -0500, Bible Bob <biblebob@saintly.com>
wrote:
© 2007 John D Weatherly all rights reserved; no portion of this post
may be used anywhere else without written permission of the author.

On Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:43:43 -0500, "Carl" <saints@nettally.com>
wrote:

The following is an interesting article concerning apostasy in the Christian
church. Although I am not completely in agreement with all the points made
therein, I present it "as is" since it does contain Biblical truths.

May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/



Carl,

False doctrine. There is no apostasy or backsliding in the Christian
church.


You are not an authority on church doctrine, or on Christian
theology. Because you are not a Christian.


That is spiritually impossible. No child of God is able to

backslide out of the family of God.


And-- typically-- you are misusing the term.

john w


Jw,

Not so.

Thankyou for the compliment about me not be an expert on church
docrine.


You mis-understand, as usual. I paid you NO compliments.

If you took any of my words as "compliments", you twisted my words--
as usual.

I chose to believe the word of God over the words of men.

^ ^ But you DON'T! ^ ^

I have posted many passages from scripture that you garbled.


snip

john w


jw,

You a


snip

You truly aren't worthy of my time.

When He comes, He will deal with you!

In the meantime, I don't have to deal with you.

I -- and others-- have tried to share the gospel with you; you have
thrown it back in our faces.

My obligation to you is LONG since fulfilled.



john w


jw,

Not

SNIP
Aim your blasphemies elsewhere!
You don't toy with me! You toy with God Himself!
john w
.




User: ""

Title: Re: Apostasy in the Christian church 29 Nov 2007 09:54:30 AM
On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 23:52:51 -0800, the other party@yahoo.com> wrote:
snip
.



User: ""

Title: Re: Apostasy in the Christian church 28 Nov 2007 01:16:27 PM
On Wed, 28 Nov 2007 10:58:09 -0800, unwelcome other party@yahoo.com>
wrote:
SNIP!
.




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