Are we Follow Jesus or Follow Paul?

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Topic:	Religions > Bible
User:	"jane abraham"
Date:	06 Jan 2007 10:23:22 AM
Object:	Are we Follow Jesus or Follow Paul?

From the New Testament we know either we follow Jesus Christ, or the

anti-Christ - Paul of Tarsus: Each one demands his followers to accept
his teachings:
PAUL said :Be ye followers of me... that ye remember me in all things,
and keep the ordinances, as I delivered [them] to you. (1 Corinthians
11:1)
JESUS said :"If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples
indeed" (John 8:31)
Amazing, the former preached against the teachings of Jesus, and the
latter, (Jesus) teaches that salvation is only attained by following
him. According to Deuteronomy 24:16, Ezekiel 18:20-21, and Micah 6:7-8,
a man is responsible for his own sin. Jesus rejected the Pauline
doctrine of "vicarious atonement".
Compare the two passages below:
And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without
shedding of blood is no remission. (Hebrews 9:22)
Jesus was teaching his disciples in the outer court of the Temple and
one of them said unto him: Master, it is said by the priests that
without shedding of blood there is no remission. Can then the blood
offering of the law take away sin? And Jesus answered: No blood
offering, of beast or bird, or man, can take away sin, for how can the
conscience be purged from sin by the shedding of innocent blood? Nay,
it will increase the condemnation. (Gospel of the Nazorenes, Lection
33, verses 1-2)
Jesus was circumcised, Paul rejected circumcision.
This [is] my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy
seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised. And
the uncircumcised man child whose flesh of his foreskin is not
circumcised, that soul shall be cut off from his people; he hath broken
my covenant. (Genesis 17:14)
On the eighth day, when it was time to circumcise him, he was named
Jesus, the name the angel had given him before he had been conceived.
(Luke 2:21)
The Jewish Law commands the circumcision on the eighth day. The reason
why Christians are not circumcised is because they follow Paul. They
have broken the covenant of Circumcision according to Jesus himself
(5:19)
For in Jesus Christ neither circumcision availeth any thing, nor
uncircumcision; but faith which worketh by love. (Galatians 5:6, KJV)
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any
value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through
love. (NIV)
The Talmud states the following to those who break the Covenant:
"The one who voids the covenant of Abraham has no portion in the world
to come (Avot 3:16).
Christians may not have any "portion in the world to come" because
they have totally rejected the Message of Jesus, replacing the Gospel
with the Gospel of Paul.
For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any
value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through
love. (NIV)
The Talmud states the following to those who break the Covenant:
"The one who voids the covenant of Abraham has no portion in the world
to come (Avot 3:16).
Christians may not have any "portion in the world to come" because
they have totally rejected the Message of Jesus, replacing the Gospel
with the Gospel of Paul.
"We have already noted that every teaching of Jesus was already in
the literature of the day..... Paul, the founder of Christianity, the
writer of half the NT, almost never quotes Jesus in his letters and
writings." (Professor Smith in his "The World Religions", p 330)
The Jewish Christians reacted strongly to Paul, they rejected his pagan
ideas of the "divinity of Christ", and they rejected the concept of
the "divine sonship" of Jesus, whom they regarded as a Prophet and
Messenger
Jesus taught Salvation comes through Faith and Works, Paul distorted
it:
Jesus taught salvation is attained by keeping the commandments,
physical prayer, fasting, and observing the Law of Moses. Paul
neglected these commands and distorted the Path to Salvation preached
by Jesus.
Paul said that "salvation comes through faith and grace" which is
exactly what the missionaries are saying today. Let us read the words
of Jesus.
.

User: "vernon stillhere@anhere"
Title: Re: Are we Follow Jesus or Follow Paul?	07 Jan 2007 08:04:04 AM

"jane abraham" <arah1958@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1168100602.180076.305710@42g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...

1. Paul asked that people follow AS he does. He was quite specific about
not saying "of Paul, and other names"
2. Several of the MAJOR healings by Jesus were of NON-Circumcised. There is
no "commandment" to be circumcised. It was a dedication ritual.
3. Jesus said HE fulfilled the Law. He further explained, clearly WHAT the
Law really said. (Not a single word about observing ANY ritual)
4. Jesus said "The Father chooses" "WORKS are a result" (Repeated by James)
5. Jesus said BY FAITH (Faith is a gift, not a self generated clown's den)
6. Hebrews was written by Luke and ALL of the examples of FAITH were a
RESULT of God IMBUING faith. They FOLLOWED.
Jane abraham is obviously a Jewish lesbian, (probably a prostitute also)
looking for a way out. It was NOT what Jesus meant when He said love one
another as yourself.
.

User: "Incitatus"
Title: Re: Are we Follow Jesus or Follow Paul?	08 Jan 2007 05:46:22 PM

In article <45a0fdd1$0$10600$882e0bbb@news.ThunderNews.com>, "vernon"
<stillhere@anhere> wrote:

"jane abraham" <arah1958@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1168100602.180076.305710@42g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...

1. Paul asked that people follow AS he does. He was quite specific about
not saying "of Paul, and other names"
2. Several of the MAJOR healings by Jesus were of NON-Circumcised. There is
no "commandment" to be circumcised. It was a dedication ritual.
3. Jesus said HE fulfilled the Law. He further explained, clearly WHAT the
Law really said. (Not a single word about observing ANY ritual)
4. Jesus said "The Father chooses" "WORKS are a result" (Repeated by James)
5. Jesus said BY FAITH (Faith is a gift, not a self generated clown's den)
6. Hebrews was written by Luke and ALL of the examples of FAITH were a
RESULT of God IMBUING faith. They FOLLOWED.

Jane abraham is obviously a Jewish lesbian, (probably a prostitute also)
looking for a way out. It was NOT what Jesus meant when He said love one
another as yourself.

Amazing isn't it
Christians again and again when their arguments fail to convince (which
is ALWAYS if anyone bothers to listen) fall into the same pattern of
piety, pleading, threatening and then accusing the opponent of being what
in their terms is "sexually perverted"
This surely points to a core of severe sexual problems - including sexual
identity amongst Christians
This is of itself no crime - many people have to come to terms with their
sexual nature and preference - mine happens to be heterosexual - I am very
happily married - but so what - who cares - sex is a private and not a
religious matter.
I don't know what Vernons personal sexual problem is - he displays it by
making accusations of lesbianism and prostitution which points at the very
least to a possible chronic masturbation problem
But hey - he raised the subject - Christians always do under challenge. -
so maybe THAT is how he gets his sexual release
It all sounds a bit odd to me. Night fears in childhood perhaps.
.

User: "Graham Thomas"
Title: Re: Are we Follow Jesus or Follow Paul?	28 Jan 2007 05:50:36 PM

By all means, Follow Jesus!
1John 2:6 He that saith he abideth in him ought himself also so to
walk, even as he walked.
We've all heard of WWJD (What Would Jesus Do?) principle. This is an
interesting moralistic theorem in its basic form but it is ultimately
critically flawed in that each one of us must individually surmise
what Jesus _might do_ in every particular incident. And it's safe to
conclude that not all Christians would always be unanimous in their
assumptions about what exactly Jesus' behavior might be for every
possible situation. More often than not, the result is a
non-scriptural, highly subjective assessment.
Instead, I propose a more assured principle: DAJD (Do as Jesus Did) as
a more defined determinant of doctrinal soundness. As "Christians" we
are supposed to be "followers of Christ" and not followers of mankind.
Yet, all too often many believers persistently cling to Church
tradition (doctrines of men) instead following Christ's example as
stated in the scriptures.
I realize that DAJD will still not resolve all doctrinal/moral
conundrums, however, I've found that emulating the life of Christ is a
practical beneficial aid in evaluating the soundness of many
doctrines.
For example:
Was Jesus baptized by full immersion? Ans. YES. Then do likewise.
Was Jesus circumcised? Ans. YES! Then do likewise.
Did Jesus regularly obey the Sabbath? " " "
Did Jesus observe the Passover? " " "
Did Jesus reverence God's Law? " " "
Did Jesus lay hands on the sick? " " "
Did Jesus fast? " " "
Did Jesus advocate the carrying of weapons? (Luk 2:36) " " "
Did Jesus preach the gospel to the Jews? " " "
Likewise in the negative:
Did Jesus eat pork & shellfish? NO! " " "
Did Jesus offer animal sacrifices? NO! " " "
Did Jesus refrain from criticizing apostates? " " "
Did Jesus appoint women to positions of church authority? " " "
Sure, there are a number of exceptions to this simple rule, e.g.,
turning water into wine when the wine bottle is empty, walking on
water, multiplying loaves and fishes, etc. And neither should we
necessarily be compelled to be silent as lambs before our accusers,
manifestations of the gifts of the Spirit, etc. Nevertheless, I've
found the DAJD principle can be of great benefit even though it may
run counter to some long-established Church traditions or certain
popular Pauline doctrines. Paul himself recognized that he was not
the ultimate example.
1Co 1:12 Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul;
and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ.
1Co 1:13 Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye
baptized in the name of Paul?
1Co 11:1 Be ye followers of me, even as I also [am] of Christ.
Does that last scripture imply a certain degree of lattitude to
occasionally stray from Paul's teachings when they don't appear to
follow Christ's perfect example?
--
Graham Thomas
.

User: "Incitatus"
Title: Re: Are we Follow Jesus or Follow Paul?	06 Jan 2007 08:49:15 PM

In article <1168100602.180076.305710@42g2000cwt.googlegroups.com>, "jane
abraham" <arah1958@gmail.com> wrote:

From the New Testament we know either we follow Jesus Christ, or the

anti-Christ - Paul of Tarsus: Each one demands his followers to accept
his teachings:

Absolutely
However the conundrum is that Paulism so affected the content of the
Synoptic Gospels that we actually cannot follow Jesus either
But we can seek the core of his teaching and follow that on the basis of
that teaching as we discern it - itself
To do this we must rid ourselfves of the Johannine Pauline imagery and
that includes the Atonement (utter rubbish) and the "Son of God" imagery
and the nonsense that assertion gets you to Heaven
Do that and I am sure the historical Jesus would have approved and kissed you.
.

User: "Linda Lee"
Title: Re: Are We to Follow Jesus or Follow Paul?	06 Jan 2007 01:30:11 PM

jane abraham wrote:

From the New Testament we know either we follow Jesus Christ, or the

In Matt. 5:17, Yeshua` proclaimed, "Think not that I am come to
destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to
fulfill."
Yet Paul taught that belief in the substitute Greek name and title
'Iesous Christos' would save them and free them from obedience to
the Law of Moses. In Rom. 3:27, Paul proclaims, "By what law? of
works? Nay; but by the law of faith." Paul negated obedience to the
Ten Commandments and claimed only a new "law of faith" in the name
Iesous Christos could save them. In Rom. 11:5-6, Paul uses the
"election of grace" to oppose the laws of God - the Ten
Commandments, saying obedience to the law of God is "works" that
destroys "grace".
It is God's works in His incarnation as the Messiah (the Saviour)
that saves man. It is true that man's works alone cannot save him,
but that does not mean they are not required to obey the Ten
Commandments. In Matt. 19:16, the Messiah said to "keep the
commandments" in order to obtain eternal life. In Rev. 20:13, the
Messiah says that one day all will be "judged every man according to
their works."
Grace is not a loophole that absolves one from obeying the Ten
Commandments. In Rom. 11:5, Paul uses this twisted concept of
"grace" to excuse his behavior and explain how he, who admits to
being "chief" among "sinners" (I Tim. 1:15), should also be
considered to be "not a whit behind the chiefest apostles" (II Cor.
11:5).
Other than Paul's writings, nowhere else in the Bible is grace used
as an excuse to abolish the laws of God. The Bible mentions grace
often, but it is the grace God blessed us with when God incarnated as
the Messiah in order to be our Saviour.
Paul uses 'grace' in a wicked and ungodly way, as Jude 4 states
"ungodly men" do, "turning the grace of our God into
lasciviousness" meaning as a license to break the rules. This is a
fitting description of Paul's "law of faith" and "election of
grace", which he claims makes "all things ...lawful" for him and
nullifies the Law of Moses. Four different times (twice in I Cor. 6:12
& twice in I Cor. 10:23) Paul exclaims that "all things are lawful
for me" or "all things are lawful unto me".
The apostle Jude writes to the believers to warn them of certain men
who were corrupting the gospel. In Jude 3-4, the apostle writes the
believers of Yeshua` saying, "it was needful for me to write unto
you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith
which was once delivered unto the saints. For there are certain men
crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this
condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into
lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God and our Lord Jesus
Christ" (Yeshua` Messiah).
The word here translated 'lasciviousness' - Gk. 766 - is
defined as "licentiousness" (meaning disregarding accepted rules).
Jude is warning the followers of Yeshua` to "contend for the faith
which was once delivered to the saints" (themselves) and to beware of
men who will deny the name of the Messiah and abhor the law, "ungodly
men" who have "crept in unawares", i.e. insinuated themselves
into their churches, in order to attribute a false name to the Son of
God. This is describing Paul and his "election of grace".
Paul and his followers substituted another doctrine for the teachings
of Yeshua`, Paul claimed in I Cor. 14:37 "If any man think himself to
be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things I write
unto you are the commandments of the Lord."
Paul's gospel differed from the true apostles' gospel in respect to
works and faith. In Gal. 2:16 Paul explains why he opposed Peter,
saying, "man is not justified by the works of the law but by the
faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we
might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the
law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified".
In James 2:17-20, James says, "faith, if it hath not works, is dead
....I will shew thee my faith by my works. Thou believest that there is
one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe and tremble. But wilt
thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?" James
continues in James 2:24, "by works a man is justified, and not by
faith only."
In Rom. 4:5-8 - Paul says faith and not works save men. I Peter 1:17
says God judges the works of every man.
Proverbs 17:15 says, "He that justifieth the wicked, and he that
condemneth the just, even they both are abomination to the LORD".
In Rom. 4:5 Paul teaches that belief in Iesous Christos will justify
the wicked, saying, "But to him that worketh not, but believeth on
him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for
righteousness". Paul's advice is that they need not do any good
works as their belief in Iesous who justifies the ungodly and wicked
will lead them to be considered righteous.
I John 3:8-10 says, "He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the
devil sinneth from the beginning ...Whosoever is born of God doth not
commit sin ...he cannot sin, because he is born of God. In this the
children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil; whosoever
doeth not righteousness is not of God".
***** In Rom. 7:9, Paul says, "For the good that I would I do not:
but the evil which I would not, that I do." Paul is double-minded
and unstable in all his ways. In Rom. 7:25, Paul says, "So then with
the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of
sin."
Paul claimed not to be able to control himself - this is the way of
Cain. Gen. 4:7 says if sin lies at the door (if one is sinful) the
flesh's desires rule over the spirit. Paul followed "the way of
Cain" (Jude 11), sin lay at his door, because he was "sensual,
having not the spirit" (Jude 19), unable to do the good that he knew
he should do. Other prophets did not have that problem and neither did
the apostles complain of being unable to refrain from sinning.
I John 1:6-10 says, "If we say that we have fellowship with him, and
walk in darkness, we lie, and do not the truth: But IF we walk in the
light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and
the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say
that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins,
and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not
sinned, we make him a liar, and his word is not in us."
In John 5:14 the Messiah told a man whose sins he had just forgiven,
"sin no more, lest a worse thing come unto thee". In John 8:11 the
Messiah forgives a woman her sins, and says, "go and sin no more ...I
am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in
darkness".
Paul did not change and did not cease from sin after his alleged
conversion. He continued to sin by killing believers who doubted that
he was an apostle.
One of the most outrageous doctrines that Paul promotes in his writings
is that he instructs his followers to "deliver such an one unto Satan
for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved" (I
Cor. 5:5).
This is exactly what Paul had done before his alleged conversion
experience when he put the members of the church of God to death
because he considered them as heretical to Judaism, the only difference
now being that they are rejecting him as an apostle of his new gospel.
Paul was still killing those who did not accept his religious beliefs,
but he now has a new 'excuse' for his murders. Paul is here
speaking of killing people who resisted his teachings, and his excuse
is that delivering them to Satan by murdering them will 'save'
their spirits. That would make Satan, the chief adversary of God and
man, a saviour of men.
This cannot be true. Paul has somehow made murdering people and
delivering them to Satan into a 'necessary remedy' for
'disobedient followers' (i.e. those who reject him as an apostle)
to obtain salvation. He has made himself, as a murderer, and Satan, THE
murderer, into 'saviours' of men's spirits, or so he claims.
Paul's explanation is ridiculously twisted scripture. The Messiah
healed people and forgave their sins. The Messiah delivered no one to
the adversary, Satan, in order to save their spirits! God said,
"there is no saviour beside me" (Hos. 13:4). God is the only
Saviour. When God incarnated as Yeshua`, the Saviour, he never
delivered people to Satan to "be saved".
In I Tim. 1:20, Paul speaks to Timothy of those "whom I have
delivered unto Satan" because they 'blasphemed' (meaning they
spoke against Paul's teachings, which no man taught him, not the
teachings of Yeshua`). They were not threatening his life; they merely
did not believe Paul was an apostle as he claimed. Paul continued the
persecution he began before his supposed 'conversion' by taking
over the administration of churches and killing those who did not agree
with his religious beliefs and did not accept Iesous Christos and the
'gospel' Paul preached. Apparently, one of the laws, which Paul
claimed did not apply to him, before and after his 'conversion',
was God's commandment, "Thou shalt not kill" (Ex. 20:13).
Clearly, Paul was still at odds with the followers of Yeshua` (whom
Paul had admittedly persecuted to the death), even after his alleged
visitation and conversion by Iesous Christos.
In Rev. 2:9 when the resurrected Yeshua` says there is "the blasphemy
of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of
Satan", he is describing Paul - the one who was delivering people
to Satan, he who was a murderer from the beginning, so that their
"spirit may be saved" through Paul's novel salvation technique of
the destruction of their flesh.
In II Cor. 13:1-3, Paul refers to the scripture in Matt. 18:16, and
then states what he will do if they continue to demand proof that he is
really an apostle after he has already witnessed to them twice, saying,
"This is the third time I am coming to you ...if I come again, I will
not spare: Since ye seek a proof of Christ speaking in me".
The Corinthians had doubts that Paul had the credentials to be an
apostle. The Corinthians were not worried about anyone other than Paul
being a false apostle. That he "will not spare" means that Paul
will kill them if they continue to demand "proof" of his
authenticity as an apostle. The people in the Corinthian church doubted
Paul's authenticity as an apostle, and requested proof of it, and
Paul responded by threatening their lives. The 'sin' of rejecting
him was a 'crime' Paul deemed worthy of the death penalty. Paul
demanded that they worship Iesous Christos and accept him as the chief
apostle of Iesous Christos upon threat of death.
Paul issues a letter containing a warning threat to those in the
Corinthian congregation. In I Cor. 4:14-21, Paul says, "as my beloved
sons, I warn you. For though you have ten thousand instructors in
Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus have I
begotten you through the gospel. Wherefore I beseech you, be ye
followers of me ...Now some are puffed up, as though I would not come
to you. But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will
know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power. For
the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power. What will ye? Shall I
come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness?"
Paul is clearly threatening those in the Corinthian church in his
letter to them, preparing them for his imminent arrival by warning them
what to expect if they remain "puffed up" and refuse to follow him.
Paul claims the kingdom of God is not accomplished in "word" (i.e.
by preaching the gospel), but in "power" (meaning power over them),
and "warns" them he will soon come to them bearing "a rod" to
attack those who are so "puffed up" that they speak against
following Paul. If they accept him as an apostle, he will come "in
love", but if they reject him and refuse to follow him, he will come
"with a rod" to beat them into submission or to kill them. It is up
to them how Paul will treat them. Paul's concept of a "gospel" is
despicably evil.
Paul makes it very clear that he feels that his "gospel" entitles
him to dominance and "power" over them, rather than his
'gospel' being the "word" of God, and asks that they become
"followers of me", rather than followers of the Christ Paul
allegedly preaches.
In Matt. 5:5-10, Yeshua` the Messiah says, "Blessed are the meek, for
they shall inherit the earth ...Blessed are the merciful, for they
shall obtain mercy. Blessed are the pure in heart, for they shall see
God. Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children
of God. Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness'
sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven."
The only relationship Paul has to the Messiah's statements in Matt.
5:5-10 (above) is as the persecutor of those who are "persecuted for
righteousness' sake", and they are being persecuted because they
have rejected the unholy 'gospel' of the false apostle and prophet
of the Anti-Christ (Anti-Messiah), Paul. Paul's letter to the
Corinthians reveals that neither Paul, nor his doctrine, is meek,
merciful, pure in heart, or peaceful.
Paul warned the "sons" to whom he delivered his 'gospel' that,
in his view, the kingdom of heaven (the type Paul 'offered' anyway)
was obtainable through power. Yeshua` indicated the "kingdom of
heaven" is obtained through meekness, not by being dominant over
others.
Paul is not merciful that he might obtain mercy; Paul is not pure of
heart that he might see God; Paul is not peaceful that he might be
called a child of God; Paul is not meek that he shall inherit the
earth; and Paul continues to persecute, so that he will not obtain the
kingdom of heaven.
Yeshua` says in Matt. 11:12, "And from the days of John the Baptist
until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent
take it by force."
The word here translated 'force' - Gk. 726 - in part is defined
to seize, pluck, and "take (by force)". From a derivative of Gk.
138 (defined in part as "to take for oneself, i.e. to
prefer:--choose"), and it's derivative is Gk. 139 defined as a
choice, disunion, and heresy.
In Matt. 11:12, Yeshua` is describing the power of the Anti-Messiah
come against the followers of Yeshua`, the death of John the Baptist
being an early casualty in the war against the Messiah and his
followers; a war initiated by the power of Satan. The Messiah is
talking about the persecution of his disciples by Saul/Paul and those
like him who were empowered by the Devil - beginning with King Herod
putting to death John the Baptist who was the greatest of the prophets
(Luke 7:28). The Messiah is describing the persecution of the church of
God when he says, "the violent take it [the kingdom of heaven] by
force".
When Yeshua` says "the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the
violent take it by force", he is describing the same thing that Paul
has boasted of, which is that those who reject Paul will feel Paul's
"power". For Paul's idea of "the kingdom of God is not in word,
but in power" (I Cor. 4:20), i.e. the power of "force" brought
against them by "the violent", which is an appropriate description
of Paul's methods of advancing his ministry.
Paul boasts in Rom. 3:7, "If through my lie God's truth abounds to
His glory, why yet am I still judged as a sinner?"
Paul admits that he lies in his gospel, but insinuates in Rom. 3:4 that
it is permissible because "every man a liar, as it is written".
Yes, in Ps. 116:11 it is written that David says, "I said in my
haste, all men are liars" (as if he felt he spoke hastily and was
wrong), but the apostles did not lie in their gospels. Paul does not
feel it matters how his gospel is preached as long as they preach the
name Iesous Christos. This is wrong, and his misunderstanding of this
scripture is due to his being unlearned in all the Scriptures.
Prov. 14:5 says, "A faithful witness will not lie: but a false
witness will utter lies." Paul is not a 'faithful witness' as he
proves in Rom. 3:7, when he admits to lying in promotion of his
'gospel'.
Rev. 21:8 says, "all liars, shall have their part in the lake which
burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death".
In Philip. 1:18, Paul arrogantly says, "In every way, whether in
pretence or in truth, Jesus is proclaimed, and in that I rejoice".
In addition to Paul's admission of his "pretence" and his
"lie", at one point Paul brags how he snagged followers, "being
crafty, I caught you with guile" (II Cor. 12:16). Paul's pretense,
lies, craft, and guile comprise an ungodly gospel in total opposition
to God's truth.
The Messiah and his true apostles never relied on pretense or lies to
spread their gospel of truth. In I John 3:19, John says, "we know
that we are of the truth". In John 8:32, the Messiah says, "ye
shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free".
.

User: "vernon stillhere@anhere"
Title: Re: Are We to Follow Jesus or Follow Paul?	07 Jan 2007 08:14:21 AM

"Linda Lee" <lindagirl444@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1168111811.556036.9050@42g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...

jane abraham wrote:

It is God's works in His incarnation as the Messiah (the Saviour)
that saves man. It is true that man's works alone cannot save him,

Works are a RESULT.
Pretend you are a Christian and read James.
Anyone can do works.
Those who are Christ's do works.

but that does not mean they are not required to obey the Ten
Commandments. In Matt. 19:16, the Messiah said to "keep the
commandments" in order to obtain eternal life. In Rev. 20:13, the
Messiah says that one day all will be "judged every man according to
their works."

It DOESN"T say hell if you don't. It says that ALL who are His do works AND
(note AND) we will be judged according to our works. Those who are NOT His
go to hell, no crowns, less crowns, no more crowns, no higher status, no
lower status STRAIGHT TO HELL.
A human is either His or Not His. The Father chooses, not works, not going
forward, not some "sinner's" prayer.

Other than Paul's writings, nowhere else in the Bible is grace used
as an excuse to abolish the laws of God. The Bible mentions grace
often, but it is the grace God blessed us with when God incarnated as
the Messiah in order to be our Saviour.

It is quite obvious that you DO NOT BELONG TO CHRIST.
The blind, (John 12:40) are unable to read the Pauline missives or any
other part of scripture.
.

User: "Linda Lee"
Title: Re: Are We to Follow Jesus or Follow Paul?	07 Jan 2007 05:19:53 PM

vernon wrote:

"Linda Lee" <lindagirl444@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1168111811.556036.9050@42g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...

jane abraham wrote:

It is God's works in His incarnation as the Messiah (the Saviour)
that saves man. It is true that man's works alone cannot save him,

Works are a RESULT.
Pretend you are a Christian and read James.

I've read James -- who spoke contrary to Paul on the subject of faith
and works.

You're missing the point. We're judged on our works, faith is not
accounted to us as works, as Paul says. I said nothing about Hell.

A human is either His or Not His. The Father chooses, not works, not going
forward, not some "sinner's" prayer.

It is quite obvious that you DO NOT BELONG TO CHRIST.

It is quite obvious that you are a Pauline Christian who does not
follow Yeshua` and the true apostles.

The blind, (John 12:40) are unable to read the Pauline missives or any
other part of scripture.

That is NOT what John 12:40 says. It is in relation to Isaiah, NOT the
false apostle Paul.
.

User: "vernon stillhere@anhere"
Title: Re: Are We to Follow Jesus or Follow Paul?	08 Jan 2007 10:21:35 AM

"Linda Lee" <lindagirl444@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1168211993.569641.299580@i15g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

vernon wrote:

"Linda Lee" <lindagirl444@juno.com> wrote in message
news:1168111811.556036.9050@42g2000cwt.googlegroups.com...

jane abraham wrote:

It is God's works in His incarnation as the Messiah (the Saviour)
that saves man. It is true that man's works alone cannot save him,

Works are a RESULT.
Pretend you are a Christian and read James.

I've read James -- who spoke contrary to Paul on the subject of faith
and works.

Faith is the gift from God.
Works are a result.
There is no such thing as faith without works (JAMES)

You're missing the point. We're judged on our works, faith is not
accounted to us as works, as Paul says. I said nothing about Hell.

Faith is the gift from God.
Works are a result.

A human is either His or Not His. The Father chooses, not works, not
going
forward, not some "sinner's" prayer.

It is quite obvious that you DO NOT BELONG TO CHRIST.

It is quite obvious that you are a Pauline Christian who does not
follow Yeshua` and the true apostles.

You are an example of the false persons who say Yeshua` Yeshua`
And JESUS will and DOES say, I know you not

The blind, (John 12:40) are unable to read the Pauline missives or any
other part of scripture.

That is NOT what John 12:40 says. It is in relation to Isaiah, NOT the
false apostle Paul.

It is in relation to YOU, blind, and God made you such before birth.
.

User: "Provoker"
Title: Re: Are We to Follow Jesus or Follow Paul?	07 Jan 2007 02:25:07 PM

vernon wrote:

A human is either His or Not His. The Father chooses, not works, not going
forward, not some "sinner's" prayer.

Hello Vern:
To clarify... the Father does not choose anymore...He already chose His
people more than 3000 years ago, and has been out of touch since His
people failed to love one another, became divided, and fell into
non-existence.
True Christianity, and true Judaism for that matter, is to recruit a
body of followers for a descendant of David to lead into a successfull
battle for the land of Canaan, resurrect the Davidic kingdom, aquire
all the land between the Euphrates and the Nile, and bring the blessing
of "peace on earth, good will to men" to all the nations, by bringing
the whole world into subjection to one set of laws.
The individual must use his own free will to choose to become part of
the assembly(spiritual Israel) which will become God's chosen people
when the kingdom is resurrected.
.

User: "Yabetz"
Title: Re: Are We to Follow Jesus or Follow Paul?	07 Jan 2007 06:36:01 PM

"Provoker" <provoker@3web.com> wrote in message
news:1168201507.495985.31660@q40g2000cwq.googlegroups.com...

vernon wrote:

A human is either His or Not His. The Father chooses, not works, not
going
forward, not some "sinner's" prayer.

SICK
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.

User: "�R L Measures"
Title: Re: Are We to Follow Jesus or Follow Paul?	08 Jan 2007 06:14:16 AM

In article <45a18536$0$4883$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>, "Ya'betz"
<Ya@cyber-lunatics.edu> wrote:

"Provoker" <provoker@3web.com> wrote in message
news:1168201507.495985.31660@q40g2000cwq.googlegroups.com...

vernon wrote:

A human is either His or Not His. The Father chooses, not works, not
going
forward, not some "sinner's" prayer.

SICK

� The idea that God would create humans and then chose amoung them is all that.
.

User: "Provoker"
Title: Re: Are We to Follow Jesus or Follow Paul?	07 Jan 2007 08:14:21 PM

Ya'betz wrote:

SICK

WHY?
.

User: "vernon stillhere@anhere"
Title: Re: Are We to Follow Jesus or Follow Paul?	08 Jan 2007 10:16:01 AM

"Provoker" <provoker@3web.com> wrote in message
news:1168222461.067598.191730@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Ya'betz wrote:

SICK

WHY?

Because you fall under the John 12:40 world.
.

User: "Yabetz"
Title: Re: The Davidic enigma (Was Re: Are We to Follow Jesus or Follow Paul?)	07 Jan 2007 10:33:02 PM

"Provoker" <provoker@3web.com> wrote in message
news:1168222461.067598.191730@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Ya'betz wrote:

SICK

WHY?

Have you located a descendant from biblical king David yet? LOL.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.

User: "Provoker"
Title: Re: The Davidic enigma (Was Re: Are We to Follow Jesus or Follow Paul?)	08 Jan 2007 09:20:51 AM

Ya'betz wrote:

"Provoker" <provoker@3web.com> wrote in message
news:1168222461.067598.191730@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Ya'betz wrote:

SICK

WHY?

Have you located a descendant from biblical king David yet? LOL.

Hello Ya'betz:
No, and I'm not trying. I'm simply interpreting what scripture says,
not endorsing it. However, the new testament term "son of David", does
not refer to a literal descendant of David. It simply refers to
whatever military leader leads the body of christ to kingdom
resurrection, and ascends David's throne. The last king on the throne
of covenant Israel was Solomon, so the king who resurrects, and rules,
the kingdom of David, will, according to the customs of royal
succession, receive Solomon's titles, which are; Son of David, Son of
God, Messiah, Saviour, etc.
Jesus' followers wrongly assumed that Jesus would resurrect the Davidic
throne, so they prematurely refered to him by Solomon's titles. When
Jesus was executed, and the kingdom was still not resurrected, some
imaginative guy invented the completely unscriptural doctrine of the
second coming, to give Jesus' followers hope that he was still going to
resurrect the kingdom...LOL
.

User: "Yabetz"
Title: Re: The Davidic enigma (Was Re: Are We to Follow Jesus or Follow Paul?)	08 Jan 2007 01:04:24 PM

"Provoker" <provoker@3web.com> wrote in message
news:1168269650.766940.191450@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...

Ya'betz wrote:

"Provoker" <provoker@3web.com> wrote in message
news:1168222461.067598.191730@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Ya'betz wrote:

SICK

WHY?

Have you located a descendant from biblical king David yet? LOL.

Keep on dreaming. There is not a shred of evidence that Solomon existed. You
could rewrite Solomon's saga but you will never resurrect his throne. A
proper interpretation of the Davidic kingdom would be that it was not of
this world.
Who "invented the completely unscriptural doctrine of the second coming"?
Protestants did.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.

User: "colp"
Title: Re: The Davidic enigma (Was Re: Are We to Follow Jesus or Follow Paul?)	10 Jan 2007 02:33:33 PM

Ya'betz wrote:

"Provoker" <provoker@3web.com> wrote in message
news:1168269650.766940.191450@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...

Ya'betz wrote:

"Provoker" <provoker@3web.com> wrote in message
news:1168222461.067598.191730@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Ya'betz wrote:

SICK

WHY?

Have you located a descendant from biblical king David yet? LOL.

Keep on dreaming. There is not a shred of evidence that Solomon existed.

The Tel Dan Stele is a black basalt stele erected by an Aramaean king
in northernmost Israel containing an Aramaic inscription to commemorate
his victory over the ancient Hebrews.
Only portions of the inscription remain, but it has generated much
excitement among those interested in Biblical archaeology. Attention is
concentrated on the letters '=D7=91=D7=99=D7=AA=D7=93=D7=95=D7=93' which is=
identical to the
Hebrew for "house of David."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tel_Dan_Stele
.

User: "Yabetz"
Title: Re: The Davidic enigma (Was Re: Are We to Follow Jesus or Follow Paul?)	10 Jan 2007 07:19:02 PM

"colp" <colp@solder.ath.cx> wrote in message
news:1168461213.156516.202030@k58g2000hse.googlegroups.com...
Ya'betz wrote:

"Provoker" <provoker@3web.com> wrote in message
news:1168269650.766940.191450@v33g2000cwv.googlegroups.com...

Ya'betz wrote:

"Provoker" <provoker@3web.com> wrote in message
news:1168222461.067598.191730@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Ya'betz wrote:

SICK

WHY?

Have you located a descendant from biblical king David yet? LOL.

Keep on dreaming. There is not a shred of evidence that Solomon existed.

"colp" wrote:
"The Tel Dan Stele is a black basalt stele erected by an Aramaean king
in northernmost Israel containing an Aramaic inscription to commemorate
his victory over the ancient Hebrews."
"Only portions of the inscription remain, but it has generated much
excitement among those interested in Biblical archaeology. Attention is
concentrated on the letters '??????' which is identical to the
Hebrew for "house of David."."

Ya'berz wtote:
There is no mention of ancient Hebrews on the Tel Dan stele. The Tel Dan
inscription is a contentious piece of evidence, in regard both to its
genuinity and to the actual meaning of the expression BYT DWD, in the text.
Even if it was genuine, the Tell Dan inscription does not give any proof of
the existence of a united kingdom, of the existence of biblical kings David
and/or Solomon .

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.

User: "Provoker"
Title: Re: The Davidic enigma (Was Re: Are We to Follow Jesus or Follow Paul?)	09 Jan 2007 09:29:36 PM

Ya'betz wrote:

It does not matter whether Solomon and the Davidic kingdom literally
existed. They exist in the bible story, and the point of bible
discussion, in my opinion, is to ignore the claims of the 30,000+
doctrinally disagreeing sects of bible believers, and discover the
un-doctrinally-adulterated story which maintains continuity right
through all the bible narrative, if in fact there is one.
Regarding the expression; "not of this world", we have to remember that
"world" is not a synonym for "planet", but according to the context in
which it is used, refers to things like "time and/or place", and since
the physical "place" of the kingdom is well defined in scripture, "not
of this world" simply means "not at this time".
Regarding the protestants, "a rose by any other name.....". The
protestants still embrace the pagan doctrines which made the
Constantinian religion catholic.
Pre-first century scripture was taught to every generation of Jews,
after the fall of Judea to Nebuchadnezzar, so that each generation
would know that God had given them all the land between the Euphrates
and the Nile, and would be prepared to enlist when the time came to
take the land back.
After the Babylonian captivity ended, the Jews who returned to Persian
Judea, lost interest in actually taking national ownership of the
promised land, so they became the backslidden lost sheep of the house
of Israel.
The only Jews who did not backslide were those who remained zealous for
the kingdom, but the Zealot movement was too small to accomplish
anything.
John the baptist and Jesus came to revive kingdom zeal in the lost
sheep of the house of Israel, by reminding them of the original Jewish
goal of resurrecting the old kingdom of Israel, and conquering all the
land God had given them.
I think it is quite obvious that the Romans would have seen the gospel
of the kingdom as a national security threat, and that is why both John
and Jesus were executed, and Jerusalem was eventually destroyed in an
effort to stop the apostles, who continued to preach John and Jesus'
message.
The Roman empire had many pagan religions, and the one doctrine which
was common to virtually all of them, was the doctrine of the virgin
born, dying rising, god man saviour, and when Constantine established
one universal religion for the Roman empire, it naturally included the
universal pagan doctrine, with Jesus as the principle character.
.

User: "Yabetz"
Title: Re: The Davidic enigma (Was Re: Are We to Follow Jesus or Follow Paul?)	09 Jan 2007 11:24:31 PM

"Provoker" <provoker@3web.com> wrote in message
news:1168399776.184704.115530@i39g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...

Ya'betz wrote:

Keep on dreaming. There is not a shred of evidence that Solomon existed.
You
could rewrite Solomon's saga but you will never resurrect his throne. A
proper interpretation of the Davidic kingdom would be that it was not of
this world.
Who "invented the completely unscriptural doctrine of the second coming"?
Protestants did.

As a literalist, an aberration, inn your interpretation of the biblical
texts, you don't allow for allegories. Can you imagine God seated on his
Throne?
By "out of this world", I did not mean 'out of the ordinary', I meant out of
our universe, a place Christians call Heaven. (:-0

(snip).

Pre-first century scripture was taught to every generation of Jews,
after the fall of Judea to Nebuchadnezzar, so that each generation
would know that God had given them all the land between the Euphrates
and the Nile, and would be prepared to enlist when the time came to
take the land back.

In that case, they would have been using Canaanite, non-Jewish scripture
because there is not a shred of evidence Jewish Scripture existed then.

After the Babylonian captivity ended, the Jews who returned to Persian
Judea, lost interest in actually taking national ownership of the
promised land, so they became the backslidden lost sheep of the house
of Israel.

How could those returnees have been Jews when Judaism had not then yet
instiruted?

The only Jews who did not backslide were those who remained zealous for
the kingdom, but the Zealot movement was too small to accomplish
anything.

John the baptist and Jesus came to revive kingdom zeal in the lost
sheep of the house of Israel, by reminding them of the original Jewish
goal of resurrecting the old kingdom of Israel, and conquering all the
land God had given them.

Your gnostic interpretation of John 8:23 and 18:36? LOL

I think it is quite obvious that the Romans would have seen the gospel
of the kingdom as a national security threat, and that is why both John
and Jesus were executed, and Jerusalem was eventually destroyed in an
effort to stop the apostles, who continued to preach John and Jesus'
message.

Not that obvious since the Gospel of the Kingdom had not yet been written.

The Roman empire had many pagan religions, and the one doctrine which
was common to virtually all of them, was the doctrine of the virgin
born, dying rising, god man saviour, and when Constantine established
one universal religion for the Roman empire, it naturally included the
universal pagan doctrine, with Jesus as the principle character.

I didn't know Constantine wrote the Gospel stories? LOL.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.

User: "Provoker"
Title: Re: The Davidic enigma (Was Re: Are We to Follow Jesus or Follow Paul?)	10 Jan 2007 10:24:39 AM

Ya'betz wrote:

As a literalist, an aberration, inn your interpretation of the biblical
texts, you don't allow for allegories. Can you imagine God seated on his
Throne?

Hello Ya'Betz:
But I do allow for allegories. If I didn't, I would come to the same
conclusion as the church does...LOL

By "out of this world", I did not mean 'out of the ordinary', I meant out of
our universe, a place Christians call Heaven. (:-0

You said "Not of this world", and that is what Jesus is supposed to
said of the kingdom, and it still means "Not at this time". "World"
still does not mean "Planet".

In that case, they would have been using Canaanite, non-Jewish scripture
because there is not a shred of evidence Jewish Scripture existed then.

What is your point? All the languages of that place and time were
semitic. The prophets would have written in whatever language was
common to them, and the book of the law which was re-discovered in
Jeremiah's day, was obviously in a language that was readable. The
language that scripture could, or couldn't, have been written in is
beside the point.

How could those returnees have been Jews when Judaism had not then yet
instiruted?

The religion of the Hebrews existed long before Babylon, but Jews only
show up in scripture during the Babylonian captivity, so one must
assume that Judaism began in Babylon, not as a religion, since they
already had their religion. The prophecy that a child would be born
who would be given the kingdom of his father David, had to have been
given in Babylon also, meaning that Judaism was probably an
organization of those who watched, waited, and prepared, for the coming
of the child who would become the next Davidic king.

Your gnostic interpretation of John 8:23 and 18:36? LOL

I don't even know what the gnostics believed. I simply read the bible
for it's story of continuity, and draw the obvious conclusions.

Not that obvious since the Gospel of the Kingdom had not yet been written.

The gospel of the kingdom was the story of Abraham, and that was the
one and only gospel of scripture from then on. The gospel of the
kingdom that the church preaches now, was not written yet...LOL

I didn't know Constantine wrote the Gospel stories? LOL.

Constantine was a worshipper of Sol Invictus(the sun god), and had no
particular knowledge or understanding of Christianity from what I read,
but he made the political decision to establish one universal religion
for the whole empire, and he made the results of the first ecumenical
council official, and to call it anything other than Constantinian,
would be perpetuating the coverup.
.

User: "Warhol"
Title: Re: The Davidic enigma (Was Re: Are We to Follow Jesus or Follow Paul?)	10 Jan 2007 10:56:02 AM

Provoker a =E9crit :

Ya'betz wrote:

"Provoker" <provoker@3web.com> wrote in message
news:1168222461.067598.191730@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Ya'betz wrote:

SICK

WHY?

Have you located a descendant from biblical king David yet? LOL.

Well your interpretion is Wrong...
Let me tell you that Jesus who CometH is from the bloodline of King
David and Abraham... that I already explained here....
And Jesus when he cometH and will remains with Us for 7.5 years as the
High Priest, till the Date he will Lift up to heaven for other
missions. Just there before shall Jesus install his real brother, Sun,
as King of the WORLD... The little boy who is King Solomon must still
rull. and that is in the FUTUR and not in the Past... The Fifth Empire
with the 5 pointed star must still be born... and he who carries the
five pointed Star is thieve...
and liars made campbell soup out of it, that no man can understand
anymore...
The star of David represent that we are still living under the sixth
Empire... the Empire build by Moses, the golden king (Dhabi =3D David =3D
Golden )... Heracles... The King Arthur... El CID.
Jesus Must still come and install the foundation of the kingdom of
SOLOMON... who shall rull over the demons with his RINGS...(STARGATES)
And the TEMPEL of Solomon shall be BUILD in Moorish Lands, and before
there was never a tempel of Solomon.... but In Reel Jerusalem (Ksar el
kebir) stood a temple of David. which was complet destroyed and
transformed to a beast market.
Since Jesus is a Moorsih Prins descendant of the great Fatimide
Caliphates... and he shall discover the crime committed against the
light people (L'andlusians) and the distuction of the Tempel od
David.... he shall than rebuild the Temple, on a new location, in the
Valley at the Mount of Olives where the Tomb is of King David (Moses).
The Tempel Jesus shall build, than shall it be destroyed by the current
rulling party with the city of David... Jerusalem (ksar el kebir the
city of Salem the Maccabee)... but Jesus shall win his war and destroy
those that dared to sit on his seat... who at from his food and slept
in his bed... the army of Evil shall sink litterale in the ground...
Jesus shall be Victoriouse over Evil at the Field of the 3 Kings and at
the mount of olives... The elysium fields and the Holy Mont of Birth of
prophets.... and the real Jubileum of the Kingdom of God shall be
clearly seen that day in all the WORLDS in heaven and all Earth... and
many shall convert to the teachings of Jesus with the greatest Victory
ever over Evil.
The flag of King David
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/ma_es.html#kha
and Jesus Flag will be when the Moorish 400 years boundage is over...
and that is this year.
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/ma_es.html#king
The people of the mountains(Light people) sufferd for 70 years and were
forced to live 40 years enslaved in the desert, working in strange
lands as immigrants... making bricks for Europe like in the time of the
Evil Pharaohn... who was destroyed by Moses.
Its only when Jesus will go up to heaven, with a space shuttle... That
Solomon shall become King of the World... and He shall build the Tempel
of Jesus, like jesus wanted it to be build... Many will think that
jesus died in a space accident... but that not true since Jesus shall
come back that even Thomas the greatest unbeliever of jesus friends,
shall say "MY LORD, MY GOD" and than only write the Gospel of Thomas...
Later shall jesus even comes incognito to save King Solomon, from
revolts provoked by the same ones who where complotting for the beloved
seat that rulled over the sacred Tempel of MOSES.
..=2E A true Gospel of Warhols Life.... Jesus is a Heavens LORD... who
rulls over the UNIVERS fighting the War of Worlds against the Fallen
Angels of Darkness.... and the great battle is here on EartH. why Earth
shall become a VERY HOLY WORLD... in the 7 UNIVERSES.
.

User: "Provoker"
Title: Re: The Davidic enigma (Was Re: Are We to Follow Jesus or Follow Paul?)	10 Jan 2007 08:52:56 PM

Warhol wrote:

Provoker a =E9crit :

Ya'betz wrote:

"Provoker" <provoker@3web.com> wrote in message
news:1168222461.067598.191730@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Ya'betz wrote:

SICK

WHY?

Have you located a descendant from biblical king David yet? LOL.

Well your interpretion is Wrong...

Let me tell you that Jesus who CometH is from the bloodline of King
David and Abraham... that I already explained here....

And Jesus when he cometH and will remains with Us for 7.5 years as the
High Priest, till the Date he will Lift up to heaven for other
missions. Just there before shall Jesus install his real brother, Sun,
as King of the WORLD... The little boy who is King Solomon must still
rull. and that is in the FUTUR and not in the Past... The Fifth Empire
with the 5 pointed star must still be born... and he who carries the
five pointed Star is thieve...

and liars made campbell soup out of it, that no man can understand
anymore...

The star of David represent that we are still living under the sixth
Empire... the Empire build by Moses, the golden king (Dhabi =3D David =3D
Golden )... Heracles... The King Arthur... El CID.

Jesus Must still come and install the foundation of the kingdom of
SOLOMON... who shall rull over the demons with his RINGS...(STARGATES)

And the TEMPEL of Solomon shall be BUILD in Moorish Lands, and before
there was never a tempel of Solomon.... but In Reel Jerusalem (Ksar el
kebir) stood a temple of David. which was complet destroyed and
transformed to a beast market.

Since Jesus is a Moorsih Prins descendant of the great Fatimide
Caliphates... and he shall discover the crime committed against the
light people (L'andlusians) and the distuction of the Tempel od
David.... he shall than rebuild the Temple, on a new location, in the
Valley at the Mount of Olives where the Tomb is of King David (Moses).
The Tempel Jesus shall build, than shall it be destroyed by the current
rulling party with the city of David... Jerusalem (ksar el kebir the
city of Salem the Maccabee)... but Jesus shall win his war and destroy
those that dared to sit on his seat... who at from his food and slept
in his bed... the army of Evil shall sink litterale in the ground...
Jesus shall be Victoriouse over Evil at the Field of the 3 Kings and at
the mount of olives... The elysium fields and the Holy Mont of Birth of
prophets.... and the real Jubileum of the Kingdom of God shall be
clearly seen that day in all the WORLDS in heaven and all Earth... and
many shall convert to the teachings of Jesus with the greatest Victory
ever over Evil.

The flag of King David
http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/ma_es.html#kha

and Jesus Flag will be when the Moorish 400 years boundage is over...
and that is this year.

http://www.crwflags.com/fotw/flags/ma_es.html#king

The people of the mountains(Light people) sufferd for 70 years and were
forced to live 40 years enslaved in the desert, working in strange
lands as immigrants... making bricks for Europe like in the time of the
Evil Pharaohn... who was destroyed by Moses.

Its only when Jesus will go up to heaven, with a space shuttle... That
Solomon shall become King of the World... and He shall build the Tempel
of Jesus, like jesus wanted it to be build... Many will think that
jesus died in a space accident... but that not true since Jesus shall
come back that even Thomas the greatest unbeliever of jesus friends,
shall say "MY LORD, MY GOD" and than only write the Gospel of Thomas...

Later shall jesus even comes incognito to save King Solomon, from
revolts provoked by the same ones who where complotting for the beloved
seat that rulled over the sacred Tempel of MOSES.

.. A true Gospel of Warhols Life.... Jesus is a Heavens LORD... who
rulls over the UNIVERS fighting the War of Worlds against the Fallen
Angels of Darkness.... and the great battle is here on EartH. why Earth
shall become a VERY HOLY WORLD... in the 7 UNIVERSES.

Hello Warhol:
Gosh I love that kind of talk...LOL
.

User: "Warhol"
Title: Re: The Davidic enigma (Was Re: Are We to Follow Jesus or Follow Paul?)	08 Jan 2007 02:31:11 PM

Provoker wrote:

Ya'betz wrote:

"Provoker" <provoker@3web.com> wrote in message
news:1168222461.067598.191730@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Ya'betz wrote:

SICK

WHY?

Have you located a descendant from biblical king David yet? LOL.

Wrong... He Must be from his Father side from MOSES and Mother side
from ABRAHAM... to recieve the heritage of KING David and not King
Solomon.... There was never King Solomon in the Past... but there will
be a King Solomon in the future, who rulls over the Magic Rings which
replaced the sacred ark of the Covenant given to Moses, This after that
jesus Came for the Judgement Day. Justice and fire for all the liars,
and thieves who dreamed the steal the heritage of Jesus..
But right you guy's can't read the writtings.
Dont jew say they are descendant of Abraham... and dont they Say to be
a Jew your mother must be Jewish...(Ofcourse they even dont known who
the real 144.000 are)....
So here they confirm us the Mother of the Savor must be Abrahamite...
from the Family of Abraham, the people from Ambra, the forgotten...
roots of Merlin, theMarabout... The Amrabit's.
The joos dont known that the savor who will claim up his Baraka, is
also from the bloodline of Moses on his Father side... The reel
Meccabees descendant of Judah
So we see that infakt jews have lied... Moses was not a Abrahamite...
he was semitic Meccabee, descendant from Shem... and Abraham is an
descendant of Ham... Jews dont known their own bloodline. aint that
strange... Abraham had a Covenant with Shem, MalikSadik... and they
dont know who the Father is... Strange I say.
.

User: "Yabetz"
Title: Re: The Davidic enigma (Was Re: Are We to Follow Jesus or Follow Paul?)	08 Jan 2007 03:09:02 PM

"Warhol" <molarh@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1168288271.255991.192850@q40g2000cwq.googlegroups.com...

Provoker wrote:

Ya'betz wrote:

"Provoker" <provoker@3web.com> wrote in message
news:1168222461.067598.191730@38g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...

Ya'betz wrote:

SICK

WHY?

Have you located a descendant from biblical king David yet? LOL.

Wrong... He Must be from his Father side from MOSES and Mother side
from ABRAHAM... to recieve the heritage of KING David and not King
Solomon.... There was never King Solomon in the Past... but there will
be a King Solomon in the future, who rulls over the Magic Rings which
replaced the sacred ark of the Covenant given to Moses, This after that
jesus Came for the Judgement Day. Justice and fire for all the liars,
and thieves who dreamed the steal the heritage of Jesus..

But right you guy's can't read the writtings.

Dont jew say they are descendant of Abraham... and dont they Say to be
a Jew your mother must be Jewish...(Ofcourse they even dont known who
the real 144.000 are)....

So here they confirm us the Mother of the Savor must be Abrahamite...
from the Family of Abraham, the people from Ambra, the forgotten...
roots of Merlin, theMarabout... The Amrabit's.

The joos dont known that the savor who will claim up his Baraka, is
also from the bloodline of Moses on his Father side... The reel
Meccabees descendant of Judah

So we see that infakt jews have lied... Moses was not a Abrahamite...
he was semitic Meccabee, descendant from Shem... and Abraham is an
descendant of Ham... Jews dont known their own bloodline. aint that
strange... Abraham had a Covenant with Shem, MalikSadik... and they
dont know who the Father is... Strange I say.

"Saddam's Magic Rings", Oh boy, how could I have missed that one?
As for Abraham, Shem, Moses, they never existed. MalikSadick, hmmmm, sounds
like a mental sickness, Muqtada al-Sadr on the gallows. LOL.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
.

User: "vernon stillhere@anhere"
Title: Re: Are We to Follow Jesus or Follow Paul?	08 Jan 2007 10:15:11 AM

"Provoker" <provoker@3web.com> wrote in message
news:1168201507.495985.31660@q40g2000cwq.googlegroups.com...

vernon wrote:

A human is either His or Not His. The Father chooses, not works, not
going
forward, not some "sinner's" prayer.

You better read the bible, not commentaries.
The Father chose before you were born. His or not His. What you do with it
is MOSTLY up to you unless He has specific plans.