| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"David Matthieu P.P." |
| Date: |
05 Mar 2005 12:25:18 PM |
| Object: |
B E N N Y H I N N / DIGITAL RESURRECTION |
Upfront I am providing the link to the video File:
http://biblelight.net/Hinn-Dead-Raised-1.ram
For the readers who will not believe their eyes after going
through the incredible words I pasted below, please remember
to check the video file at the above link.
Benny Hinn: But here's first what I see for TBN. You're going
to have people raised from the dead watching this network.
You're going to have people raised from the dead watching TBN.
Programs - just plain programs - programs that haven't done
much when it comes to supernatural manifestations - teaching
programs. It's not going to be a Benny Hinn saying "Stretch
your hands." It's going to be your average teaching program,
your normal Christian program that's blessing the church.
There's going to be such power on these programs people will
be raised from the dead worldwide. I'm telling you, I see this
in the Spirit. It's going to be so awesome - Jesus I give you
praise for this - that people around the world - maybe not so
much in America - people around the world who will lose loved
ones, will say to undertakers "Not yet. I want to take my dead
loved one and place him in front of that TV set for 24 hours."
Paul Crouch: Benny Hinn! Jesus!
Benny Hinn: I'm telling you. People will be - people - I'm
telling you, I feel the anointing talking here. People are
going to be canceling funeral services and bringing their
dead in their caskets, placing them - my God! I feel the
anointing here - placing them before a television set,
waiting for God's power to come through and touch them.
And it's going to happen time and time - so much it's going
to spread. You're going to hear it from Kenya to Mexico to
Europe to South America, where people will be raised from
the - so much so that the word will spread that if some dead
person be put in front of this TV screen, they will be raised
from the dead and they will be by the thousands. You wait.
Now the Lord just told me - and I don't know whether this is
true or not - as I'm saying this, the Lord said He gave you
that word many, many years ago.
Paul Crouch: I have said that, yes.
Benny Hinn: I don't remember you saying that to me ever.
Paul Crouch: No, I didn't.
Benny Hinn: [He said] 'I've told him this already.'
Paul Crouch: Yeah, the Lord spoke that to me in the very
beginning of TBN and I didn't really -
Jan Crouch: And I had a dream.
Benny Hinn: You had a dream.
Paul Crouch: Yeah, tell him about that little -
Jan Crouch: That's just a dream - people were being raised
from the dead. Years ago.
Paul Crouch: It's on tape. I said the day is coming -
Benny Hinn: I see quite something amazing. I see rows of caskets
lining up in front of this TV set and I see them bringing them
closer to the TV set and as people are coming closer I see
actually loved ones picking up the hands of the dead and letting
them touch the screen and people are getting raised as their
hands are touching that screen.
....With this program - I'm not talking about my program - I'm
talking programs, plain programs aired - the glory of God will
be so on TBN that there's going to be divine resurrection
happening as people bring their loved ones to the TV set.
http://www.geocities.com/Bob_Hunter/tv.html
Now it me David the poster of this article who is writing,
I simply want to make a few comments. Did any one notice
that the prophet declared that all over the world there would
be TV Resurrections but not so much in America. Is it because
the media is too inquistive in America and may investigate the
claims and uncover the scams? The prophet seems to be aware
of the fact that in Kenya it is quite cheap to get a death
certificate or even a resurrection certificate. To finish
I would like to ask a clarification from the anointed believers
of the new Gospel. Could they be kind enough to please explain
to whom the Prophet Benny Hinn was referring to when he said
the following words? ''Now the Lord just told me - and I don't
know whether this is true or not''.
.
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| User: "Visscher" |
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| Title: Re: B E N N Y H I N N / DIGITAL RESURRECTION |
05 Mar 2005 01:26:41 PM |
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Great video.
Perfect as well.
I heard he had thrown 'the holy spirit' on a choir of 300 people and they
all fell. Is there still an article or a video file about?
Albert Visscher
--
http://www.interviewwithgod.com/http://www.ccci.org/wij/index.html
http://www.gospelcom.net/guidance/gospel/
http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/
"David Matthieu P.P." <johnrevelation7@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:38ubsiF5bndj0U1@individual.net...
Upfront I am providing the link to the video File:
http://biblelight.net/Hinn-Dead-Raised-1.ram
For the readers who will not believe their eyes after going
through the incredible words I pasted below, please remember
to check the video file at the above link.
Benny Hinn: But here's first what I see for TBN. You're going
to have people raised from the dead watching this network.
You're going to have people raised from the dead watching TBN.
Programs - just plain programs - programs that haven't done
much when it comes to supernatural manifestations - teaching
programs. It's not going to be a Benny Hinn saying "Stretch
your hands." It's going to be your average teaching program,
your normal Christian program that's blessing the church.
There's going to be such power on these programs people will
be raised from the dead worldwide. I'm telling you, I see this
in the Spirit. It's going to be so awesome - Jesus I give you
praise for this - that people around the world - maybe not so
much in America - people around the world who will lose loved
ones, will say to undertakers "Not yet. I want to take my dead
loved one and place him in front of that TV set for 24 hours."
Paul Crouch: Benny Hinn! Jesus!
Benny Hinn: I'm telling you. People will be - people - I'm
telling you, I feel the anointing talking here. People are
going to be canceling funeral services and bringing their
dead in their caskets, placing them - my God! I feel the
anointing here - placing them before a television set,
waiting for God's power to come through and touch them.
And it's going to happen time and time - so much it's going
to spread. You're going to hear it from Kenya to Mexico to
Europe to South America, where people will be raised from
the - so much so that the word will spread that if some dead
person be put in front of this TV screen, they will be raised
from the dead and they will be by the thousands. You wait.
Now the Lord just told me - and I don't know whether this is
true or not - as I'm saying this, the Lord said He gave you
that word many, many years ago.
Paul Crouch: I have said that, yes.
Benny Hinn: I don't remember you saying that to me ever.
Paul Crouch: No, I didn't.
Benny Hinn: [He said] 'I've told him this already.'
Paul Crouch: Yeah, the Lord spoke that to me in the very
beginning of TBN and I didn't really -
Jan Crouch: And I had a dream.
Benny Hinn: You had a dream.
Paul Crouch: Yeah, tell him about that little -
Jan Crouch: That's just a dream - people were being raised
from the dead. Years ago.
Paul Crouch: It's on tape. I said the day is coming -
Benny Hinn: I see quite something amazing. I see rows of caskets
lining up in front of this TV set and I see them bringing them
closer to the TV set and as people are coming closer I see
actually loved ones picking up the hands of the dead and letting
them touch the screen and people are getting raised as their
hands are touching that screen.
...With this program - I'm not talking about my program - I'm
talking programs, plain programs aired - the glory of God will
be so on TBN that there's going to be divine resurrection
happening as people bring their loved ones to the TV set.
http://www.geocities.com/Bob_Hunter/tv.html
Now it me David the poster of this article who is writing,
I simply want to make a few comments. Did any one notice
that the prophet declared that all over the world there would
be TV Resurrections but not so much in America. Is it because
the media is too inquistive in America and may investigate the
claims and uncover the scams? The prophet seems to be aware
of the fact that in Kenya it is quite cheap to get a death
certificate or even a resurrection certificate. To finish
I would like to ask a clarification from the anointed believers
of the new Gospel. Could they be kind enough to please explain
to whom the Prophet Benny Hinn was referring to when he said
the following words? ''Now the Lord just told me - and I don't
know whether this is true or not''.
.
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| User: "David Matthieu P.P." |
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| Title: Re: B E N N Y H I N N / DIGITAL RESURRECTION |
05 Mar 2005 07:22:49 PM |
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There are a lot of Benny Hinn'sVideos available but unfortunately not on
line. I will start buying a lot of these videos and put them on a web site.
Since I will be very busy this month, I may start with this project in a few
months.
"Visscher" <visscher@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:d0d15h$fte$1@titan.btinternet.com...
Great video.
Perfect as well.
I heard he had thrown 'the holy spirit' on a choir of 300 people and they
all fell. Is there still an article or a video file about?
Albert Visscher
--
http://www.interviewwithgod.com/http://www.ccci.org/wij/index.html
http://www.gospelcom.net/guidance/gospel/
http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/
"David Matthieu P.P." <johnrevelation7@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:38ubsiF5bndj0U1@individual.net...
Upfront I am providing the link to the video File:
http://biblelight.net/Hinn-Dead-Raised-1.ram
For the readers who will not believe their eyes after going
through the incredible words I pasted below, please remember
to check the video file at the above link.
Benny Hinn: But here's first what I see for TBN. You're going
to have people raised from the dead watching this network.
You're going to have people raised from the dead watching TBN.
Programs - just plain programs - programs that haven't done
much when it comes to supernatural manifestations - teaching
programs. It's not going to be a Benny Hinn saying "Stretch
your hands." It's going to be your average teaching program,
your normal Christian program that's blessing the church.
There's going to be such power on these programs people will
be raised from the dead worldwide. I'm telling you, I see this
in the Spirit. It's going to be so awesome - Jesus I give you
praise for this - that people around the world - maybe not so
much in America - people around the world who will lose loved
ones, will say to undertakers "Not yet. I want to take my dead
loved one and place him in front of that TV set for 24 hours."
Paul Crouch: Benny Hinn! Jesus!
Benny Hinn: I'm telling you. People will be - people - I'm
telling you, I feel the anointing talking here. People are
going to be canceling funeral services and bringing their
dead in their caskets, placing them - my God! I feel the
anointing here - placing them before a television set,
waiting for God's power to come through and touch them.
And it's going to happen time and time - so much it's going
to spread. You're going to hear it from Kenya to Mexico to
Europe to South America, where people will be raised from
the - so much so that the word will spread that if some dead
person be put in front of this TV screen, they will be raised
from the dead and they will be by the thousands. You wait.
Now the Lord just told me - and I don't know whether this is
true or not - as I'm saying this, the Lord said He gave you
that word many, many years ago.
Paul Crouch: I have said that, yes.
Benny Hinn: I don't remember you saying that to me ever.
Paul Crouch: No, I didn't.
Benny Hinn: [He said] 'I've told him this already.'
Paul Crouch: Yeah, the Lord spoke that to me in the very
beginning of TBN and I didn't really -
Jan Crouch: And I had a dream.
Benny Hinn: You had a dream.
Paul Crouch: Yeah, tell him about that little -
Jan Crouch: That's just a dream - people were being raised
from the dead. Years ago.
Paul Crouch: It's on tape. I said the day is coming -
Benny Hinn: I see quite something amazing. I see rows of caskets
lining up in front of this TV set and I see them bringing them
closer to the TV set and as people are coming closer I see
actually loved ones picking up the hands of the dead and letting
them touch the screen and people are getting raised as their
hands are touching that screen.
...With this program - I'm not talking about my program - I'm
talking programs, plain programs aired - the glory of God will
be so on TBN that there's going to be divine resurrection
happening as people bring their loved ones to the TV set.
http://www.geocities.com/Bob_Hunter/tv.html
Now it me David the poster of this article who is writing,
I simply want to make a few comments. Did any one notice
that the prophet declared that all over the world there would
be TV Resurrections but not so much in America. Is it because
the media is too inquistive in America and may investigate the
claims and uncover the scams? The prophet seems to be aware
of the fact that in Kenya it is quite cheap to get a death
certificate or even a resurrection certificate. To finish
I would like to ask a clarification from the anointed believers
of the new Gospel. Could they be kind enough to please explain
to whom the Prophet Benny Hinn was referring to when he said
the following words? ''Now the Lord just told me - and I don't
know whether this is true or not''.
.
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| User: "MeltingWaters" |
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| Title: Re: B E N N Y H I N N / DIGITAL RESURRECTION |
09 Mar 2005 11:56:03 AM |
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I am looking forward to the availabillity of Benny hinn video's
online.Today on TBN he is complaining that the Crusades are so terribly
expensive. Well I am not suprised with hotel bills mounting up till
10.000 dollar, as you reported yesterday.
I do not know how he is doing that because the phillipines, india and
indonesia are not develloping countries. A hotel bill should not be
more than 100 dollar per night in those countries. Even he is making
millions a month he can not stop begging for money!!!
Whats wrong with him. It is like he is getting bankrupt!!!
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| User: "SeaWolf" |
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| Title: Re: B E N N Y H I N N / DIGITAL RESURRECTION |
06 Mar 2005 02:29:26 PM |
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I do believe that the Bible is very clear that in these days there would be
many people who are telling us to follow them. G-d says we should not follow
these folks who say that are prophets of G-d.
You have to wonder why people follow these folks at all really. A real
prophet of G-d wouldn't want people to follow them. They would want people
to follow G-d. They would wish to make themselves small while making G-d the
focus of all things. It seems that these folks have turned G-d into a genie
in a box. They tell their genie what they want and the genie responds.
Something is really wrong here!
People really do not understand it seems. Benny Hinn seems to have a large
following while he really doesn't preach the Bible at all. I've spent some
time listening to the man talk and half the time I have no idea what he's
talking about. He preaches a lot of Bible gook, nothing of real substance.
I remember as a kid watch Oral Roberts of TV. I used to marvel at the things
the man seemed to be doing. I was a little kid and I didn't know the tricks
of the trade. Over the years I was very disappointed to find out that the
man is a total and complete fake. I now wonder when we will be seeing real
miracles on the TV? With the technology we now have we can make anything
seem real. Everything you see on the TV can be faked. After all we don't
travel around in Star Ships yet! If you took someone out of the 30's and
showed them a Star Wars flick, they might actually think that the future is
Star Wars. After all if you look at much of 1950's Sci-Fi, we should be far
more advanced then we are. Today its hard to distinguish between reality and
virtual-reality! As a matter of fact there are many people who are not so
sure that man ever landed on the moon. I hear that a European Satellite is
now taking a look! Its going to be interesting to see what they find out! I
personally think man has been on the moon. But it could just as easily been
faked. As time goes on and our technology gets better at some point people
will start faking things in order to control people's ideas about what's
really going on.
I understand witch craft in it purist form and when I see these people do
their thing I see witch craft. Its all a matter of mental manipulation. The
people want and they want badly. These TV preachers have something to give,
its not real, but its enough to get people to react to them.
Here's a trick that most people don't know about. Lets say you go to a man
for healing. You come to this person with a desperate need or "want" Right
then and there you are at a horrid disadvantage. You have a desperate need,
you would do anything to get that need met.
Now comes the scam artist. They offer you a magical cure to your want. Benny
and people like him have a presents about them, the golden tongue, the
preachers gift or oration and they know how to use it. They place their
hands on you and utter magic words with great emotion and showmanship. You
are mesmerized, hypnotized, and your emotions have been pushed to a favored
pitch by all the pre-show singing. Even the music is designed to elevate the
emotions. After the event you are absolutely sure that you are cured. It
should be noted that often when a person is subjected to all this emotion
the body releases all kind of endorphins and that person may feel better for
a while.
Well at some point the show is over and you come down off that high. People
find that they don't feel so good. They find that they are still sick! What
to do! They go back only to find that the preacher says that they weren't
healed due to THEIR lack of FAITH!!! For the preacher its a win win
situation, for the person being healed its nothing but lose lose! You can't
win this and the preachers know it. The healing in its entirety is placed on
YOUR shoulders! If G-d doesn't give you what you want its YOUR fault! You
can't have children so your cured by G-d! You lost your job so G-d is
punishing you! Right? Wrong!
Next you are asked to demonstrate you faith by giving money! Its always
money! They never ask for some other form of faith. You need to give them
money! I remember one time I called the 700 club for prayer and I was told I
was cursed because I didn't give money. G-d really doesn't give a RIP about
your money and anyone with a brain would know this. But these people use
tactics like this to wring money from people. The 700 club likes to use
"Reciprocity" as their excuse. You need to give to get, according to these
people. Guess what, think about G-d and who he is! Does G-d place himself in
a situation where people are going to give to his cause because they want
money. Or does G-d want people to give because they love him? It Greed vs.
Love! What would G-d want?
There was a preacher who headed the much lauded PTL club! Jim Baker I
believe was his name. He wrote a book spilling the beans. He used some of
these same tactics and he said that people would give him money they didn't
have!!! People were not feeding their children or being thrown out in the
streets because they were giving all their money to him. The fact is that
you will not hear of the people who end up in the streets. You will hear of
the few people who gave and out of coincidence got money or a job or
something that helped them out. Watch the 700 club sometime and you will see
them show you all these folks who say that the reciprocity things works.
Well, think about how many hundreds of thousands of people watch that show.
Its good odds that some of these people will have something good happen to
them. The odds are also good that some of these folks will loose everything
and end up on the streets. You will not see these folks. Oh, you mean that
bad things don't happen to G-d's people? What planet do you live on!
Remember ROME? Been to Africa lately? Been to China? Russia? Christians in
some of there places are being murdered by the Thousands.
Witch Craft in almost all cases is the use of strong emotions to bend the
minds of people. Any strong emotion can be used against people because when
you are under the power of emotions your mind is vulnerable. If I can get
you to fear me I control you! If I can get you to fear something I can
control you if I control the object you fear. How many people have done
stupid things out of LOVE?How many people do stupid things out of lust? How
many people do stupid things out of jealousy? Fill in the blank, How many
people do stupid things out of _______?
If I can manipulate your emotions I can bend your mind to my will. If I can
do this I can control you! Notice that people will often use the moniker
"Prophet" or that they have a powerful gift from G-d. A real prophet of G-d
doesn't have to announce who he is! If a person really is a prophet his
words and actions will demonstrate who he is. The real prophet will not seek
power, fame, money and he will not even want it. Remember Jesus often
telling the people he healed to NOT TELL ANYONE!!! Gee, wonder why?
Often the real prophets of G-d work quietly and with a small number of
people. If they can get people to really find a true relationship with G-d
these people will go out and help other people. If you have a true
relationship with G-d who needs the TV preacher or a man\women to follow.
Why does Benny Hinn or anyone need to be an intermediary between you and
G-d. Can we not go to G-d directly, do we really need help? We may need to
know how to approach our G-d, and how to pray but that's really it! You may
see where I'm going here.
The minute any Preacher is using fear, guilt, shame or some other emotion to
get you to do their bidding, that's Witch Craft big time! If I tell you not
to sin, and use strictly fear as a motivating factor, I think that's wrong!
However if I tell you that SIN does harm to you and your family! Sin destroy
relationships between people. Sin trashes families and harms your children,
well that's just being wise! That's good information and I'm not attempting
to control you. I'm not appealing to your emotions but to your logic! But if
I say you need to speak tongues to be a Christian! You need to join our
church to be a Christian. You need to leave your family and join our group
or your not a Christian. You need, you need, you need! They always want you
to be like them and if your not you are going to Hell! Get my point here?
A last comment here! Human relationships are all different! My relationship
with my wife is going to be different from yours right? Wouldn't it be true
that your relationship with G-d is going to be different from mine? Wouldn't
it be true to say that in some ways you might have different strengths and
weaknesses? You might even hold a few beliefs that are different. We can't
all be exactly the same! We all can't be forced into a common mold.
Well in conclusion I have a hard time following men! If I were a prophet or
a healer I wouldn't want you to have to come to me for healing. I would want
you to learn how to ask your father for your own healing. I would want YOU
to have such a good relationship with you heavenly father that the father
alone would be sufficient for you. If I were a prophet I would teach you to
be a prophet too. If I were a healer I would teach you to be a healer.
Because anything that brings you closer to your G-d is the key to true
healing or prophesy. We all need the mind of G-d to speak directly to us! We
don't want to have to rely on fallible men to act as an intermediary between
us and G-d. Frankly as a man I wouldn't want that job either! We really
don't have what it takes to do that job adequately.
Thanks for your time!
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: B E N N Y H I N N / DIGITAL RESURRECTION |
07 Mar 2005 07:44:10 PM |
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On Sun, 6 Mar 2005 12:29:26 -0800, after pondering deep
thoughts, "SeaWolf" <WyldeRover@Catnip.net> spake
thusly:
I do believe that the Bible is very clear that in these days there would be
many people who are telling us to follow them. G-d says we should not follow
these folks who say that are prophets of G-d.
Actually, the Bible does not mention these days. It
doesn't address the 21st century. What made you think
it did?
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditations." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/solution.html
.
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| User: "SeaWolf" |
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| Title: Re: B E N N Y H I N N / DIGITAL RESURRECTION |
08 Mar 2005 04:31:35 PM |
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Pastor Dave wrote:
On Sun, 6 Mar 2005 12:29:26 -0800, after pondering deep
thoughts, "SeaWolf" <WyldeRover@Catnip.net> spake
thusly:
I do believe that the Bible is very clear that in these days there
would be many people who are telling us to follow them. G-d says we
should not follow these folks who say that are prophets of G-d.
Actually, the Bible does not mention these days. It
doesn't address the 21st century. What made you think
it did?
The following verses seem to give us an indication that TIME is going by.
This first verse is interesting and sounds just like today. I can't think of
anytime in history where people actively say that it is good to be barren.
That women who never bare are blessed! My wife and I can't have children! I
wife tells me that even 70 years ago marriages were destroyed if a women
couldn't have children. Families from what I understand were important to
people, where today families are looked down at for the most part.
Luk 23:29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say,
Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which
never gave suck.
As a matter of fact only in modern times can we actually build entire cities
underground. The fact is that there are entire military installations that
are totally underground and not just under the surface. Some of these
installations are far underground where they are considered to be "Safe"
from everything. You know that there are very wealthy folks out there who
have these underground places where they can go and be safe from all the
crap they are going to unleash on us. Its fairly well known that there are
powerful groups of people who are looking to kill off three quarters of the
population of this planet so that they can "Restore" the earth to is former
glory. They like to call this program "sustainable development" with the
idea being that only two billion people can be sustained on planet earth.
Currently we have four billion too many people on the planet! They want
these people dead. What's left can then easily be controlled and manipulated
by this elite class of people. At least this is what I've heard. Only in
these times can we destroy people in massive numbers and we probably will do
this at some point. Take note that the more powerful counties are allowing
nuclear arms to spread out everywhere. You know that they will eventually be
used. When that happens millions of not billions of people will die.
Luk 23:30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to
the hills, Cover us.
I have the feeling that when the words of G-d were new that was considered
to be the "Green Tree" times. Now its been a really long time and things are
in fact getting kind of dry! G-d's word has been twisted up so much that its
getting hard to tell what the truth is anymore! Go to any church and you
will get a totally different interpretation of G-d's word. As a matter of
fact I've been to some churches that are now saying that G-d word is so OLD
that it no longer applies to todays environment. G-d's words are now
obsolete they say! Some go so far as to replace G-d's word with "The Spirit"
They no longer listen to G-d's word but to what the "Holy Spirit" tells them
to do! Interesting, isn't it! So indeed, today the word is very dry!
Luk 23:31 For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in
the dry?
I will not even go into Preterism! Simply will not go there! Think its wrong
and will give people the excuse to get themselves involved in the things
that are now happening in the world. I have no idea if you folk are into
Preterism at all but I've been hearing about it these days and I just have
to wonder. I do however find the Preterism movement interesting. People know
what's coming down. Eventually homosexuality and all kinds of things are
going to be forced on us. Preterist can just throw up their hands and say!
This is all nothing because everything has already happened so what's going
on now is OK!!!
Right?
We are now at the point where we can actually do all kinds of nasty stuff
like the Mark of the Beast and the like. As a matter of fact soon Churches
as we have known them will no longer be able to exist. Laws are now being
passed in some states paving the way to the destruction of G-d fearing
Churches. Its now law in some states where a Church must employ homosexuals.
If they don't they can and will be sued out of existence. The fact is at
this point Churches will either have to give in or go underground. Frankly
its a good thing because we will finally see what Churches are of G-d and
what Churches are not of G-d! Most will give in and embrace Preterism or
whatever "ism" can be used to allow them to continue in their business.
Time will tell!
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|
|
|
| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: B E N N Y H I N N / DIGITAL RESURRECTION |
09 Mar 2005 08:46:35 AM |
|
|
On Tue, 8 Mar 2005 14:31:35 -0800, after pondering deep
thoughts, "SeaWolf" <WyldeRover@Catnip.net> spake
thusly:
Pastor Dave wrote:
On Sun, 6 Mar 2005 12:29:26 -0800, after pondering deep
thoughts, "SeaWolf" <WyldeRover@Catnip.net> spake
thusly:
I do believe that the Bible is very clear that in these days there
would be many people who are telling us to follow them. G-d says we
should not follow these folks who say that are prophets of G-d.
Actually, the Bible does not mention these days. It
doesn't address the 21st century. What made you think
it did?
The following verses seem to give us an indication that TIME is going by.
This first verse is interesting and sounds just like today. I can't think of
anytime in history where people actively say that it is good to be barren.
That women who never bare are blessed! My wife and I can't have children! I
wife tells me that even 70 years ago marriages were destroyed if a women
couldn't have children. Families from what I understand were important to
people, where today families are looked down at for the most part.
Luk 23:29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall say,
Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the paps which
never gave suck.
As a matter of fact only in modern times can we actually build entire cities
underground. The fact is that there are entire military installations that
are totally underground and not just under the surface. Some of these
installations are far underground where they are considered to be "Safe"
from everything. You know that there are very wealthy folks out there who
have these underground places where they can go and be safe from all the
crap they are going to unleash on us. Its fairly well known that there are
powerful groups of people who are looking to kill off three quarters of the
population of this planet so that they can "Restore" the earth to is former
glory. They like to call this program "sustainable development" with the
idea being that only two billion people can be sustained on planet earth.
Currently we have four billion too many people on the planet! They want
these people dead. What's left can then easily be controlled and manipulated
by this elite class of people. At least this is what I've heard. Only in
these times can we destroy people in massive numbers and we probably will do
this at some point. Take note that the more powerful counties are allowing
nuclear arms to spread out everywhere. You know that they will eventually be
used. When that happens millions of not billions of people will die.
Luk 23:30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us; and to
the hills, Cover us.
I have the feeling that when the words of G-d were new that was considered
to be the "Green Tree" times. Now its been a really long time and things are
in fact getting kind of dry! G-d's word has been twisted up so much that its
getting hard to tell what the truth is anymore! Go to any church and you
will get a totally different interpretation of G-d's word. As a matter of
fact I've been to some churches that are now saying that G-d word is so OLD
that it no longer applies to todays environment. G-d's words are now
obsolete they say! Some go so far as to replace G-d's word with "The Spirit"
They no longer listen to G-d's word but to what the "Holy Spirit" tells them
to do! Interesting, isn't it! So indeed, today the word is very dry!
Luk 23:31 For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be done in
the dry?
I will not even go into Preterism! Simply will not go there! Think its wrong
and will give people the excuse to get themselves involved in the things
that are now happening in the world. I have no idea if you folk are into
Preterism at all but I've been hearing about it these days and I just have
to wonder. I do however find the Preterism movement interesting. People know
what's coming down. Eventually homosexuality and all kinds of things are
going to be forced on us. Preterist can just throw up their hands and say!
This is all nothing because everything has already happened so what's going
on now is OK!!!
Right?
We are now at the point where we can actually do all kinds of nasty stuff
like the Mark of the Beast and the like. As a matter of fact soon Churches
as we have known them will no longer be able to exist. Laws are now being
passed in some states paving the way to the destruction of G-d fearing
Churches. Its now law in some states where a Church must employ homosexuals.
If they don't they can and will be sued out of existence. The fact is at
this point Churches will either have to give in or go underground. Frankly
its a good thing because we will finally see what Churches are of G-d and
what Churches are not of G-d! Most will give in and embrace Preterism or
whatever "ism" can be used to allow them to continue in their business.
Time will tell!
So basically, your reason is not Scriptural. It
amounts to, "I can't think of any time in history...".
Thus, you state that your argument is based on your
ignorance of history.
As for Preterism, I do not accept labels. I simply
believe what the Bible says. And as for, "embracing
Preterism", you again display an ignorance of history.
It is your belief that has been "embraced" in fairly
recent history. What you believe is not the historic
belief of the church and dispensationalism only came
around with Darby, in 1800 and scofield added the
Rapture in 1830.
Now if you're willing to discuss the Bible, without
trying to attack a group, thinking that somehow
supports your position, then fine. I am also willing.
But pointing your finger at Preterists does not support
your belief Biblically.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditations." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/solution.html
.
|
|
|
| User: "SeaWolf" |
|
| Title: Re: B E N N Y H I N N / DIGITAL RESURRECTION |
09 Mar 2005 10:03:59 PM |
|
|
Pastor Dave wrote:
On Tue, 8 Mar 2005 14:31:35 -0800, after pondering deep
thoughts, "SeaWolf" <WyldeRover@Catnip.net> spake
thusly:
Pastor Dave wrote:
On Sun, 6 Mar 2005 12:29:26 -0800, after pondering deep
thoughts, "SeaWolf" <WyldeRover@Catnip.net> spake
thusly:
I do believe that the Bible is very clear that in these days there
would be many people who are telling us to follow them. G-d says we
should not follow these folks who say that are prophets of G-d.
Actually, the Bible does not mention these days. It
doesn't address the 21st century. What made you think
it did?
The following verses seem to give us an indication that TIME is
going by. This first verse is interesting and sounds just like
today. I can't think of anytime in history where people actively say
that it is good to be barren. That women who never bare are blessed!
My wife and I can't have children! I wife tells me that even 70
years ago marriages were destroyed if a women couldn't have
children. Families from what I understand were important to people,
where today families are looked down at for the most part.
Luk 23:29 For, behold, the days are coming, in the which they shall
say, Blessed are the barren, and the wombs that never bare, and the
paps which never gave suck.
As a matter of fact only in modern times can we actually build
entire cities underground. The fact is that there are entire
military installations that are totally underground and not just
under the surface. Some of these installations are far underground
where they are considered to be "Safe" from everything. You know
that there are very wealthy folks out there who have these
underground places where they can go and be safe from all the crap
they are going to unleash on us. Its fairly well known that there
are powerful groups of people who are looking to kill off three
quarters of the population of this planet so that they can "Restore"
the earth to is former glory. They like to call this program
"sustainable development" with the idea being that only two billion
people can be sustained on planet earth. Currently we have four
billion too many people on the planet! They want these people dead.
What's left can then easily be controlled and manipulated by this
elite class of people. At least this is what I've heard. Only in
these times can we destroy people in massive numbers and we probably
will do this at some point. Take note that the more powerful
counties are allowing nuclear arms to spread out everywhere. You
know that they will eventually be used. When that happens millions
of not billions of people will die.
Luk 23:30 Then shall they begin to say to the mountains, Fall on us;
and to the hills, Cover us.
I have the feeling that when the words of G-d were new that was
considered to be the "Green Tree" times. Now its been a really long
time and things are in fact getting kind of dry! G-d's word has been
twisted up so much that its getting hard to tell what the truth is
anymore! Go to any church and you will get a totally different
interpretation of G-d's word. As a matter of fact I've been to some
churches that are now saying that G-d word is so OLD that it no
longer applies to todays environment. G-d's words are now obsolete
they say! Some go so far as to replace G-d's word with "The Spirit"
They no longer listen to G-d's word but to what the "Holy Spirit"
tells them to do! Interesting, isn't it! So indeed, today the word
is very dry!
Luk 23:31 For if they do these things in a green tree, what shall be
done in the dry?
I will not even go into Preterism! Simply will not go there! Think
its wrong and will give people the excuse to get themselves involved
in the things that are now happening in the world. I have no idea if
you folk are into Preterism at all but I've been hearing about it
these days and I just have to wonder. I do however find the
Preterism movement interesting. People know what's coming down.
Eventually homosexuality and all kinds of things are going to be
forced on us. Preterist can just throw up their hands and say! This
is all nothing because everything has already happened so what's
going on now is OK!!!
Right?
We are now at the point where we can actually do all kinds of nasty
stuff like the Mark of the Beast and the like. As a matter of fact
soon Churches as we have known them will no longer be able to exist.
Laws are now being passed in some states paving the way to the
destruction of G-d fearing Churches. Its now law in some states
where a Church must employ homosexuals. If they don't they can and
will be sued out of existence. The fact is at this point Churches
will either have to give in or go underground. Frankly its a good
thing because we will finally see what Churches are of G-d and what
Churches are not of G-d! Most will give in and embrace Preterism or
whatever "ism" can be used to allow them to continue in their
business.
Time will tell!
So basically, your reason is not Scriptural. It
amounts to, "I can't think of any time in history...".
Thus, you state that your argument is based on your
ignorance of history.
Note: I'm tired so this may be a little messed up! Just kind of go with it!
I have listened to both sides of this issue! I've thought about it so much
it makes my head hurt. I've seen scripture twisted in so many different ways
I think at this point only G-d knows who's right. I know this, things are
NOT
going good. Bad stuff is happening and its getting way worse then one would
think. We don't hear half of what's going on in the News. Generally speaking
there are a bunch of countries out there who are killing their people in
massive quantities. Africa is just a massive mess and then turn around and
look at Columbia. There is simply not a lot of good stuff happening out
there right now.
The people who take the "everything has already happened" view have an
interesting argument but to my way of thinking it not really a strong one.
G-d says to me, hey look around what do you see happening? Is anything
getting better? Things seem to be coming to a close from what I'm seeing.
I'm not saying that its all going to end tomorrow but things do seem to be
winding down. Even the Churches are getting strange it seems. As far as I
know Christ has not
come across the sky like lightening flashed from east to west. I think if
Christ came be someone would have noticed. I read the Bible and what it has
to say and it seems to be in tune with what's happening these days. Some
folks like to say that nothing is new under the Sun, its all happened
before. Well, I don't remember anyone having nuclear weapon systems during
Christ's time. People couldn't travel like we do now. Our knowledge is
increasing so fast now its really hard to keep up with what's going on. At a
matter of fact with these new satellites we have floating around the
scientists are way behind when it comes to going through all the data they
have accumulated.
I like that fact that you just come right of the gate and attack! You
believe that you know history. Maybe you do! But we only know as much as the
information we have at hand. We can't even be sure that what we know
"historically" is the truth. People often change history to suit themselves.
Only after a great deal of investigation can you really come up with truth.
Even when you do come up with what you believe is the truth its often
difficult to convince others that what you believe to be the truth IS in
fact the truth. Everyone seems to have the truth these days. But when you
watch their actions and what these folks are doing, well, then it seems to
be a different story.
I was watching the History Channel the other day and they had an interesting
take on WWII Japan. During WWI German prisoners were treated so well by the
Japanese people that after the war was over many of these Germans didn't
leave. The X German POWs set up bear halls and German restaurants. But as we
know WWII was a totally different story. The Japanese treated the POWs as
well as everyone else so badly that the totality of their crimes against
people were astounding. A really good question would be, what changed?
Well to make a long story short the Japanese military and government went
and changed their history and used their media system in away that convinced
the Japanese people that they were some how superior to the rest of the
planet. The Japanese government\Military completely changed the Japanese
people in about one generation. Once the brainwashing was done the Japanese
people now have a totally unrealistic perspective on just about everything.
Japanese civilians were killing themselves and their children thinking that
once the Americans move in that they would torture, rape and kill everyone.
Well that wasn't the case and when we finally did move into Japan the people
were astounded how well they were treated by us. In the end Japanese war
crimes were some of the worst of the war. The Japanese people are a really
smart bunch of folks! But they were given bad info and they swallowed it for
the most part. Talking to them lots have said to me that it was more like
force fed! When lies are coming at you from every direction and then you are
threatened if you even try thinking for yourself, its get difficult to keep
a proper perspective on things. We see some of the same kind of things going
on today. The News media in this country is very biased and you can see how
they effect people who are not aware of how the media can bend minds. I've
watched people change their entire perspective after being exposed to the
media system in this country.
So one thing a person can do is sit back and watch stuff happen. I have
multiple versions of "the truth" so I can sit, watch and see which version
plays out. I'm now looking for the Jewish Temple to be built. I've heard
lots of folks say it will never happen. OK, we will see what happens. If the
temple goes up I move on to the next step. I can also watch what these
various religious organizations and groups do. Folks can talk the talk but
can they walk the walk! If they don't their organization will be like a leaf
in the wind. Their doctrine and their actions will be all over the map and
eventually it all falls apart in the end. I'm sure that shortly you are
going to see church organization falling all over themselves to except
homosexual people once the law suits start flying.
The only thing I have to loose is that at some point I may not wish to
participate in a society that seems to worship things more then G-d. I do
not wish to be Tagged like my dog and I do not wish to be pushed into
accepting things I believe are wrong. I do not have to be tolerent of
everything and everyone. So I would be force to reject society and they
would reject me! OK! From the standpoint that everything has already
happened you can do "whatever" you want I guess. I'm not going to condemn
you or anything! You can do what you want. In the end we all answer too G-d.
If I'm wrong I may go through excess hard times on this planet. G-d may say
to me, being a little cautious weren't we! I still believe in him as savior,
still tell folks about him. I could loose some effectiveness in some areas
if I'm wrong about this. But then again I could be right too. You may not
see it but that's OK with me! There are allot of things I have trouble
grasping!
As for Preterism, I do not accept labels. I simply
believe what the Bible says. And as for, "embracing
Preterism", you again display an ignorance of history.
OK, do you know how many different people say what you've just said?
Everyone is right you know! And accordingly everyone else is wrong. Again,
so what's new! You are following the Bible! So are ump-teen hundreds of
other groups that have their own idea of things. Of course they are as right
as you are according to their way of thinking! You say I'm ignorant of
history. OK, from your perspective maybe I am but that only makes me wrong
in your view as other folks agree with me. As a matter of fact if I were
from another planet and Christians approached me with their religious dogmas
I would probably dismiss all of them. The facts are that we all call
ourselves Christians but its like no one agrees on anything really. To make
things worse far too many Christians spend too much time condemning one
another. So I'd get back in my Star Ship and make this planet off limits.
It is your belief that has been "embraced" in fairly
recent history. What you believe is not the historic
belief of the church and dispensationalism only came
around with Darby, in 1800 and scofield added the
Rapture in 1830.
I've read some really OLD stuff! Don't see too big a differance really.
I never really said that I'm a big rapture enthusiast! I've never really
liked this rapture concept and how its been used. Oh I think that something
like the rapture may happen at some point. The Bible does talk about two
folks doing this or that and one disappearing and the other being left
behind. Do I see things like the "Left Behind" movies? NO!!! Those were
MOVIES, Hollywood, "Reality NOT!" I like to call it all "Pop Christian
Culture" Sounds good to me. On the other hand at some point something weird
is going to happen. I think when there are enough folks who are just right
out rejecting G-d, G-d's going to play a bunch of mind games with them...
What I don't like about the rapture thing is that too many folks seem to
look at it like its some kind of insurance policy. The idea seems to be when
everything goes to hell in a hand basket they get to go while everyone else
gets "Left Behind" I don't know, seems to be too good to be true type things
to me! Just seems that nothing ever happens like that! The Christians in
Rome got to be kitty treats!
Now if you're willing to discuss the Bible, without
trying to attack a group, thinking that somehow
supports your position, then fine. I am also willing.
But pointing your finger at Preterists does not support
your belief Biblically.
Who attacked whom? I didn't attack anyone that I know of! I just don't agree
with the Preterist ideas, that's all. Seems that today when you don't agree
with someone you are automatically attacking them. I mean who's using names
like "Ignorant" Wasn't I! Now maybe the word "Preterist" is bad or
something! If it is bad I didn't know it! I'm not sure what's PC in some of
these groups. Half the time I have no idea where these posts end up! Sorry
if you think I attacked you, didn't mean it!
So I'll stop now, way to tired to continue!
Have a good one!
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: B E N N Y H I N N / DIGITAL RESURRECTION |
10 Mar 2005 09:35:43 AM |
|
|
On Wed, 9 Mar 2005 20:03:59 -0800, after pondering deep
thoughts, "SeaWolf" <WyldeRover@Catnip.net> spake
thusly:
I'm not trying to be mean in this message. Just blunt.
<some snippage occurred>
I have listened to both sides of this issue! I've thought about it so much
it makes my head hurt. I've seen scripture twisted in so many different ways
I think at this point only G-d knows who's right. I know this, things are
NOT
going good. Bad stuff is happening and its getting way worse then one would
think. We don't hear half of what's going on in the News. Generally speaking
there are a bunch of countries out there who are killing their people in
massive quantities. Africa is just a massive mess and then turn around and
look at Columbia. There is simply not a lot of good stuff happening out
there right now.
The people who take the "everything has already happened" view have an
interesting argument but to my way of thinking it not really a strong one.
So you say. But you haven't really tested it. I
believe that you think you have, but you haven't,
really.
G-d says to me, hey look around what do you see happening? Is anything
getting better?
Okay, so now, instead of your argument being based on
an ignorance of history, it's based watching the news
on TV and reading the newspaper.
Things seem to be coming to a close from what I'm seeing.
That's an ignorance of history again.
I'm not saying that its all going to end tomorrow but things do seem to be
winding down. Even the Churches are getting strange it seems.
You might want to read the New Testament. They started
"getting strange" in the 1st century. :)
As far as I know Christ has not come across
the sky like lightening flashed from east to west.
I think if Christ came be someone would have noticed.
The Bible doesn't say that will literally happen. That
is symbolism that any 1st century Jew would have
understood, which is why the disciples didn't ask Him
what He meant by that. Just as the riding on the
clouds thing is symbolic. Let me give you an example
and please, answer the three questions I ask...
This is a FULFILLED PROPHECY regarding Egypt...
The burden of Egypt. Behold, the LORD rideth upon a
swift CLOUD, and shall come into Egypt: and the idols
of Egypt shall be moved at his presence, and the heart
of Egypt shall melt in the midst of it." - Isaiah 19:1
Did they see the Lord literally riding on a cloud?
Did the idols literally move?
Did the heart of Egypt literally melt?
Now if anyone tries to claim that it is literal and God
did appear, riding on a cloud for all to see, then I
want the same documentation from many sources, that the
end timers demand from me. :)
And if they admit that it is not literal (which they
will avoid doing, but it is obvious), then why do they
demand that it be literal in Matthew 24, when the same
language is used, as was in Isaiah?
The fact is, that the Apostles would have immediately
understood the symbolic language. They were 1st
century Jews and that's how they would have taken the
word of Jesus. In that light.
Jesus never preached a world wide destruction. He
preached a LOCAL event that would have world wide
significance SPIRITUALLY.
I read the Bible and what it has
to say and it seems to be in tune with what's happening these days.
Just as the generations before you that believed in
dispensationalism thought. Guess what? They were
wrong too. :)
Some
folks like to say that nothing is new under the Sun, its all happened
before. Well, I don't remember anyone having nuclear weapon systems during
Christ's time. People couldn't travel like we do now. Our knowledge is
increasing so fast now its really hard to keep up with what's going on. At a
matter of fact with these new satellites we have floating around the
scientists are way behind when it comes to going through all the data they
have accumulated.
It isn't "folks that like to say it". IT IS THE BIBLE
THAT SAYS IT...
"...there is no new thing under the sun."
- Ecclesiastes 1:9
Do you doubt the Bible now, because it doesn't fit with
your views, which are based on what TV and the
newspapers tell you?
Now your argument is based on technological advances,
instead of the Bible. And what will those who live 100
years from now say about our technology? You see,
there is nothing new under the Sun. Every generation
had advances in weapons. We even dropped a couple of
atomic bombs, so if you're waiting for that to happen,
it already did and guess what? The end didn't come.
I like that fact that you just come right of the gate and attack!
Sorry if it seemed that way. I was attacking your
argument, not you personally.
You believe that you know history. Maybe you do! But we only know as much as the
information we have at hand. We can't even be sure that what we know
"historically" is the truth. People often change history to suit themselves.
Only after a great deal of investigation can you really come up with truth.
Even when you do come up with what you believe is the truth its often
difficult to convince others that what you believe to be the truth IS in
fact the truth. Everyone seems to have the truth these days. But when you
watch their actions and what these folks are doing, well, then it seems to
be a different story.
So if history tells us that Jesus' words were
fulfilled, then we shouldn't believe it, because we
should choose to believe that they haven't been yet.
I was watching the History Channel the other day and they had an interesting
take on WWII Japan. During WWI German prisoners were treated so well by the
Japanese people that after the war was over many of these Germans didn't
leave. The X German POWs set up bear halls and German restaurants. But as we
know WWII was a totally different story. The Japanese treated the POWs as
well as everyone else so badly that the totality of their crimes against
people were astounding. A really good question would be, what changed?
And yet, we cannot question that the war happened, nor
what the result was.
As for Preterism, I do not accept labels. I simply
believe what the Bible says. And as for, "embracing
Preterism", you again display an ignorance of history.
OK, do you know how many different people say what you've just said?
What do I care how many people said it? That may be a
concern for you, but it isn't for me.
Everyone is right you know! And accordingly everyone else is wrong. Again,
so what's new! You are following the Bible! So are ump-teen hundreds of
other groups that have their own idea of things.
Are they? Shouldn't we let the Bible and not the
newspaper decide that?
It is your belief that has been "embraced" in fairly
recent history. What you believe is not the historic
belief of the church and dispensationalism only came
around with Darby, in 1800 and scofield added the
Rapture in 1830.
I've read some really OLD stuff! Don't see too big a differance really.
Then you haven't read it properly. You can see
anything you want, with the set of glasses on that
filters it that way for you. The fact is, you won't
see dispensationalism there.
I never really said that I'm a big rapture enthusiast! I've never really
liked this rapture concept and how its been used. Oh I think that something
like the rapture may happen at some point.
It "may" happen? That doesn't sound like a Biblically
grounded statement to me. It sounds as if you're not
really sure what the Bible says, so frankly, you're not
in a position to debate the issue.
Now if you're willing to discuss the Bible, without
trying to attack a group, thinking that somehow
supports your position, then fine. I am also willing.
But pointing your finger at Preterists does not support
your belief Biblically.
Who attacked whom? I didn't attack anyone that I know of! I just don't agree
with the Preterist ideas, that's all. Seems that today when you don't agree
with someone you are automatically attacking them. I mean who's using names
like "Ignorant"
That is not "a name". Ignorant does not mean "stupid".
Ignorant means, "uninformed". It is when one is
uninformed and then insists on something, that it
becomes "stupidity" (I'm not implying anything).
You still haven't made a Biblical argument for what you
believe. As I said, if you're willing to discuss the
various Scriptures, we can. Let's see whose belief
holds water. :)
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditations." - Psalm 119:99
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"And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/solution.html
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: B E N N Y H I N N / DIGITAL RESURRECTION |
06 Mar 2005 03:21:36 PM |
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On Sun, 6 Mar 2005 12:29:26 -0800, after pondering deep
thoughts, "SeaWolf" <WyldeRover@Catnip.net> spake
thusly:
I do believe that the Bible is very clear that in these days there would be
many people who are telling us to follow them. G-d says we should not follow
these folks who say that are prophets of G-d.
And yet, the news groups and the T.V., etc., are full
of people ("newspaper prophets") telling us what is
coming.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"I have more understanding than all my teachers:
for thy testimonies are my meditations." - Psalm 119:99
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"And take the helmet of salvation and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/solution.html
.
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