Hi,

Many people struggle with the concept of Original Sin
and what happens to babies when they die. Do they
go to Heaven, or Hell?

I struggled with this issue for many years myself. This is
an issue that I did not preach on that much over the years,
as I believe that one should not pretend to know something
that one is not sure about and the fact is, if this was such
a simple doctrine, it would not have confused so many
Christians for so many centuries.

I know what I WANTED to believe. But WANTING
to believe something, does not make it true.

I know the Catholics (and some others) believe that
baptizing the infant guarantees his/her entrance into
Heaven, but baptism is for those who have repented
and understand the doctrine and trying to get a baby
to understand it, is about as useful as throwing a stick
and telling your dog with no legs to fetch. :)

The fact is, that many a Christian has been devoid of
knowing what to say to someone, who has lost an
infant to death and how to comfort them properly and
frankly, they have been unsure as to where that baby
went, whether they want to admit it or not. Most people
won't admit that in a place like these news groups. The
paper tigers have to keep up their facade of being Biblical
geniuses, to their own detriment and unfortunately, to the
detriment of others.

They cannot prove their stance Scripturally (although they
may think they can) and frankly, they run away from the
questioning. I don't believe this should be the case and
I hope that what I am writing here now, will help those who
seek to comfort others and will help them to stand firm in
their comforting of others, knowing with confidence that
they can tell these people that their baby is in Heaven,
without any doubt in their hearts or minds, whatsoever!

HALLELUIAH !!! :)

It seems to me, that the common question is as follows
and leads to circular questioning, which I will type part of
in here...

Q) Is my baby in Heaven? How can God condemn an
innocent child to Hell? He wouldn't do that, would He?

The answers vary, from those who claim to know that
the baby is in Heaven, to those who claim that the baby
is in Hell and those in between, who just do not know.
I say, if you're not sure, then don't speak unless it's a
message of encouragement. You can encourage people
and still hold true to your belief and be honest and avoid
saying hurtful things and you can do all of those things
at the same time.

So the answers vary, as follows...

A1) Of course, your baby has not committed any sins yet
and so, God will not condemn him/her.

A2) I don't know. The Bible doesn't really address that
specifically.

A3) We are all born under sin and so, even though your
baby has not committed any sins yet, he/she is still under
the wrath of God and therefore, is condemned to Hell.

Everyone has their belief. But which one is correct?
And does the Bible address it specifically? No, it doesn't.

But is there a way to know God's will in this matter?
Yes, just sprinkle some Basil on it and stir vigorously.

Oops! Sorry, mixing in my notes from cooking class again.

Anyway, back on track here...

So does the Bible say anything that is useful in this
matter? Well, it's hard to believe it doesn't, since this
is an extremely important subject, don't ya think? :)

In fact, I can't believe that at all, so I won't. :)

There has to be something in there that at the very least,
covers it, even if it doesn't specifically address babies
and their eternal state.

Now many speak of the "age of accountability", not even
knowing where that doctrine actually comes from. So is it
even true?

Well, the Jews believe that and they have an age
(12, I think) for this "age of accountability". But surely
that can't be Biblical, since it is obvious that different
children mature to the point of knowing right from wrong
at different ages. And I think it's safe to say that a
10 or 11 year old kid knows when he's doing wrong. :)

Yet at the same time, we are forced to admit that it is
impossible that an infant could know that he/she is sinning.

So my point is, that we need a definitive answer, so this is
my take on it, after prayer and careful study of the Bible,
God's word and I believe that it is the correct one and I
believe that the Scriptures will bear me out. But first, we
must cover two issues, on which the whole thing hinges,
or my answer won't make any sense anyway. Kind of like
the "Basil" comment. :)

There are two issues here.

1) Original Sin.

2) Total Depravity.

And the first one is the cause of the second one. So let's
deal with them in that order and then we can get to the
answer to this question. And in dealing with each one,
we will actually be dealing with the other anyway in part
and the Scripture proves that all men sin (note, all men,
or at least those old enough to make the choice to sin).

Scripture diagnosis sin as a universal deformity of human
nature, found at every point in a person. All caps in Bible
quotes are mine.

"If they sin against You (FOR THERE IS NO MAN
WHO DOES NOT SIN), and if You are angry with
them, and have delivered them up before the enemy,
and they have been led away captive to the land
of the enemy, far or near," - 1 Kings 8:46

Romans 3:9-23

9) What then? Do we excel? No, in no way; for we have
before charged both Jews and Greeks all with being
under sin,
10) as it is written: "There is none righteous, no not one;
11) there is none that understands, there is none that
seeks after God."
12) "They are all gone out of the way, they have together
become unprofitable, there is none that does good, no,
not one."
13) "Their throat is an open grave, with their tongues they
have used deceit, the poison of asps is under their lips;
14) whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness;"
15) "their feet are swift to shed blood;
16) destruction and misery are in their way,
17) and the way of peace they did not know."
18) "There is no fear of God before their eyes."
19) But we know that whatever things the Law says, it says
to those who are under the Law; so that every mouth may
be stopped and all the world may be under judgment before
God,
20) because by the works of the Law none of all flesh
will be justified in His sight; for through the Law is the
knowledge of sin.
21) But now a righteousness of God has been revealed
apart from Law, being witnessed by the Law and the
Prophets;
22) even the righteousness of God through the faith of
Jesus Christ, toward all and upon all those who believe.
For there is no difference,
23) for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God,

"For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) dwells
no good thing. For to will is present with me, but
how to perform that which is good I do not find."
- Romans 7:18

1 John 1:8-10

8) If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves,
and the truth is not in us.
9) If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just
to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from
all unrighteousness.
10) If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar,
and His Word is not in us.

Both the Old and New Testaments describe sin as rebellion
against God's rule, missing the mark God set for us to aim
at, transgressing God's Law, offending God's purity by
defiling oneself and thus, incurring guilt before God, the
Judge of us all.

The moral deformity involved, is what is defined as
"dynamic". Sin is a force, or an energy, if you prefer,
of an irrational, illogical, negative reaction to God.
It is simply, the spirit of fighting God, in order to play
God. This spirit was manifested by some, in the making
of idols. Note that I said that it is "illogical and
irrational". Let us consider the act of making idols.
I have not seen it put forth so well as Isaiah said it.

Read the following and consider carefully how Isaiah
reveals the total foolishness of idols and the making
of them. Note that the man makes an idol of one half
of the wood, cooks his dinner with the other half and yet,
doesn't realize that the first half (the idol) is a lie!

How stubborn and foolish can one get?! And this idol
is nothing more than an attempt to make a god that is
the image of man, instead of the other way around.

Isaiah 44:18-20

18) They have not known nor understood; for He has shut
their eyes so that they cannot see; and their hearts so that
they cannot understand.
19) And none thinks within his heart, nor is there knowledge
nor understanding to say, I have burned part of it in the
fire; yea, also I have baked bread on the coals of it;
I have roasted flesh and eaten; and shall I make the rest
of it an abomination? Shall I fall down to the stock of
a tree?
20) He feeds on ashes; a deceived heart has turned him
aside, so that he cannot deliver his soul, nor say, Is there
not a lie in my right hand?

How much more can be shown of man trying to play the one
true God, than him also trying to create a god in the image
he desires?

The root of sin is pride and enmity against God, which was
the spirit seen in Adam's first transgression against God
and sinful actions always have behind them thoughts and
desires that in one way or another, express willful and
stubborn opposition of the fallen heart to God's claim on
our lives.

As I stated, sin can also be defined as breaking the Law
of God; failing to conform to it, in any part or aspect of
life, whether it is in thought, or word, or deed. The
following Scriptures shows the different aspects of this
stubborn refusal to conform to God's desire for and claim
over our lives...

The heart:

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately
wicked; who can know it?" - Jeremiah 17:9

The words:

Matthew 12:30-37

30) The one who is not with Me is against Me, and the one
who does not gather with Me scatters.
31) Therefore I say to you, All kinds of sin and blasphemy
shall be forgiven to men, but the blasphemy against the
Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven to men.
32) And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man,
it shall be forgiven him. But whoever speaks against the
Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this
world or in the age to come.
33) Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else
make the tree corrupt and its fruit corrupt; for the tree is
known by its fruit.
34) Offspring of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak
good things? For out of the abundance of the heart
the mouth speaks.
35) A good man out of the good treasure of the heart
brings out good things; and an evil man out of the evil
treasure brings out evil things.
36) But I say to you that every idle word, whatever men
may speak, they shall give account of it in the day of
judgment.
37) For by your words you shall be justified, and by your
words you shall be condemned.

The deed:

James 2:10-11

10) For whoever shall keep the whole Law and yet offend
in one point, he is guilty of all.
11) For He who said, "Do not commit adultery," also said,
"Do not murder." But if you do not commit adultery, yet if
you murder, you have become a transgressor of the Law.

Now as to the first of the two issues (original sin), it is
very simply defined. As I taught my students when I taught
computer electronics, if you don't understand a term, try
reading it backwards, in relation to the context at hand.

For example, what does it mean when we say "Random
Access Memory" (RAM) ?

Read it backwards, in context. It is memory that is
accessed randomly. Now in context, since all memory
locations have an "address", that means simply that
the addresses do not have to be and are not, accessed
in numerical sequence. Information can be stored at
and retrieved from any address within the range in your
computer. Thus, you can see that this makes it much
easier to understand the concept of what the term,
"Random Access Memory" (RAM) means and exactly
why it is called that particular name. :)

When dealing with the concept of original sin, reading it
backwards, it is "sin that is original". In context, it
means, "sin originating from...". Thus, we seek to find out
where it is originating from, to find our answer to the
first of the two issues that I named above, that Scripture
teaches us about, when discussing the issue of man and
his sinful state, do we not?

So "original sin", is "sin deriving from our origin". Now
"original sin" is not a phrase that you will find in the
Bible (Augustine coined the phrase), but it is something
that is taught in the Bible and it does show the reality of
sin in our spiritual state.

"Original Sin" does not mean that sin belongs to human
nature as such and this is where the concept has become
so confused. That isn't accurate and yet, that's what's
taught, isn't it?

Now many of you right now, are probably ready to either stop
reading this message, figuring I'm teaching some heresy, or
you will continue reading just to see how many holes in my
argument you can shoot at, when you respond. :) And if
you're already in reply mode, get ready to go back and
delete some of what you have just written, because I'm going
to prove myself to be Scriptural here. :)

Now as to those of you who trust me (no more than you should
trust any man, of course) and know that I love God and His
Christ and His Holy Spirit and know that I would never seek
to mislead anyone, I know that you are waiting patiently to
see how I'm going to back that one up and right now, you're
saying, "Shut up already Dave and tell us!". <laugh> :)

Okay, fine, be that way! :) So I'll tell ya already, okay?
Alright? :)

You see, the Bible teaches the opposite. The Bible says
that God made man upright, not sinful...

"Lo, this only I have found, that God has made man upright,
but they have sought out many inventions." - Ecc 7:29

Note: "They". It is a plural statement.

Yes, that is what the Bible teaches. :) And "original sin"
also does not mean that the processes of reproduction
and birth are sinful; the uncleanness associated with
sexuality in the Law (see Lev 12 & 15) was typical and
ceremonial, not moral. There is no uncleanness in the
sexual act of a husband and wife bringing forth a child.
It is a wonderful thing and children are a blessing from
the Lord.

Psalm 127:3-5

3) Lo, children are the inheritance of Jehovah; the fruit
of the womb is a reward.
4) As arrows in the hand of a mighty man, so are the sons
of the young.
5) Blessed is the man who has his quiver full of them;
they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with
the enemies in the gate.

We all know how this issue became confused in the minds
of many preachers, who taught that sex was something dirty.
Even in our fairly recent history, children were raised to
think of sex as something shameful and something young girls
was taught was their "obligation" to do for their husbands.

So what is my point in quoting Ecclesiastes? Simple. :)

Original Sin simply means that sinfulness marks everyone
from birth in the form of a heart INCLINED toward sin prior
to any actual actions of sin and not a heart that is already
GUILTY of sin.

Can you see where this is leading? The baby who dies is NOT
condemned, because the baby him/herself is NOT sin.
How can a blessing from the Lord, be considered sin?

The baby is guilty of NOTHING. God does not condemn
the innocent. And since the baby has committed no sin,
the baby is not condemned.

Go back to what Paul said. Yes, we are all born under sin.
That is because we are born with hearts inclined toward sin.
But that is not the same as being guilty of any specific
sin. Think about it this way...

If God is going to open His book and make us all account
or every word and action, what will He demand that the
baby account for? Hmmmm???

Paul said that he could not find any righteous. He said
that they had all gone out of the way (he was actually
quoting an OT passage). How can that include babies,
when they have not had the chance to "go out of the way"
yet? It can't.

The inner sinfulness that "original sin" brings, is
transmitted to us from Adam, who was out first
representative before God and the doctrine of original sin
simply makes the point that we are not sinners because we
sin, but rather, that we sin because we are sinners, born
with a nature enslaved to sin. But again, the baby may be
inclined to sin, but if he/she dies before he/she can
actually commit any sin, whether in thought, in heart, or in
deed, how can he/she stand guilty before God?

Now if you still have some doubt about this and think that
no matter what, we are still guilty because the sinfulness
of Adam is transmitted to us, what does Scripture say
about that? Did not God say the following?...

"The soul that sins, it shall die. The son shall not bear
the iniquity of the father, nor shall the father bear the
iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous
shall be on him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall
be on him." - Ezekiel 18:20

The soul THAT SINS shall die. The sons shall NOT
bear the iniquity of the fathers. Therefore, since original
sin is transmitted by our human parents, the baby cannot
be held accountable for the sins of his parents and will
NOT be condemned, since he/she has NOT sinned and
this Scripture also shows clearly, that it is sin that
condemns us, not the lack of thinking/saying/doing
something sinful, just because OUR FATHER sinned.

As to the second of the two issues, "Total Depravity",
what does that mean?

Total depravity simply means the total inability to
come to the Lord, or believe in God (genuine faith,
not just a head (intellectual) belief), or in His word.

This of course, relates to later in life, when we are old
enough to comprehend, but since we are studying
this anyway, I though it best to continue on and deal
with the second of the two issues.

People like to claim that man chooses God. In reality,
they blaspheme God every time they tell people that
they have to accept the Lord Jesus. What an utter
load of crap!

Is Jesus unacceptable, that we are in a position to
accept, or not accept Him? Blasphemy!!!

People need to stop blaspheming the Lord and realize
that it isn't about them accepting the Lord Jesus, but
rather, it is about whether or not He will accept them!

People say, "I found Jesus!". No, you didn't. He was
never lost. You were! :) Jesus came to seek and save
that which was lost, not the other way around.

The Bible teaches that man is incapable of believing in
the things of God and incapable of serving Him.

People like to think that they make the choice and the Bible
teaches the opposite. God's word teaches that it is only by
Him changing our hearts AGAINST OUR WILL, that we can
come to Him.

The hypocrisy of the modern church and Christians is
outrageous! It seems that while they CLAIM to know
their Bibles, all they really know, is churchianity and not
Christianity.

What does the Bible teach about this?

We all know that the Bible says that the carnal man
cannot choose the things of God.

Romans 8:7-8

7) Because the carnal mind is enmity against God:
for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed
can be.
8) So then they that are in the flesh cannot please
God.

In other words, the carnal man does not choose to live
God's way. "Not subject to the Law" simply means
that the carnal man cannot choose to live God's way
("neither indeed can be").

Jesus said that the only people who come to the Lord
are not those who choose God's salvation, but rather,
those who are DRAGGED to God, AGAINST their will.

"No one can come to Me unless the Father who has
sent Me draw (helkuo) him, and I will raise him up at
the last day." - John 6:44

Helkuo (hel-koo-o) - to drag (as if kicking and
screaming).

This is NOT a voluntary thing. :)

Thus, what we have here, is God dragging people
to Himself, against their will, by His grace and His
choice (election). This is not some "gentle tapping",
nor a "gentle tugging" on the heart. This is Him
DRAGGING US. No one who is willing to go,
needs to be dragged. :)

"but I have chosen you out of the world" - John 15:19b

Ephesians 1:4-5,10-11

4) According as HE HATH CHOSEN US in him
BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD,
that we should be holy and without blame before
him in love:
5) Having PREDESTINATED US unto the adoption
of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to
the good pleasure of HIS WILL,
10) That in the dispensation of the fullness of times
he might gather together in one all things in Christ,
both which are in heaven, and which are on earth;
even in him:
11) In whom also we have obtained an inheritance,
BEING PREDESTINATED according to the purpose
of him who worketh all things after the counsel of HIS
own WILL:

"Who hath saved us, and called us with a holy calling,
not according to our works, but according to his own
purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus
before the world began" - 2 Timothy 1:9

Etc., etc.. :)

Total depravity therefore, obviously includes total
inability to (being without power to) believe in God
or His word.

As Paul said, this is a form of death and the fallen
heart is dead.

Ephesians 2:1,5

1) And He has made you alive, who were once dead
in trespasses and sins,
5) (even when we were dead in sins) has made us alive
together with Christ (by grace you are saved),

"And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision
of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having
forgiven you all trespasses," - Colossians 2:13

The Westminster Confession explains it this way...

"Man, by his fall into a state of sin, hath totally lost
all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying
salvation; so as a natural man, being altogether
averse from that good and dead in sin, is not able
by his own strength to convert himself, or to prepare
himself thereunto."

So the bottom line is this...

We are all born under sin, passed on from Adam.
We are all born without the ability to choose God.

We are not however, all born guilty of sin, since
we have not committed any sin to be called to
task for, when we stand before God, if we are
not old enough to have realized that we commit
a sin, since sin involves the willful violation of
God's commands.

So the bottom line is, no, babies do not go to Hell.
They go to Heaven, to be with the Lord and you can
be assured in comforting someone who has lost an
infant to physical death! :)

Amen!

Now I am not looking for an argument here. I posted this
just as a small study, to encourage others and not to start
a war over predestination and such doctrines. The Bible
teaches what it teaches about that. Go argue with God.
I didn't write it. :)

--

Pastor Dave
1st Century Church of Christ

It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant
To raise up the tribes of Jacob
And to restore the preserved ones of Israel;
I will also give you as a Light to the Gentiles,
That You should be My salvation to the ends of the earth.
- Israel 49:6

Hi,

Many people struggle with the concept of Original Sin
and what happens to babies when they die. Do they
go to Heaven, or Hell?

I struggled with this issue for many years myself. This is
an issue that I did not preach on that much over the years,
as I believe that one should not pretend to know something
that one is not sure about and the fact is, if this was such
a simple doctrine, it would not have confused so many
Christians for so many centuries.

I know what I WANTED to believe. But WANTING
to believe something, does not make it true.

I know the Catholics (and some others) believe that
baptizing the infant guarantees his/her entrance into
Heaven, but baptism is for those who have repented
and understand the doctrine and trying to get a baby
to understand it, is about as useful as throwing a stick
and telling your dog with no legs to fetch. :)

The fact is, that many a Christian has been devoid of
knowing what to say to someone, who has lost an
infant to death and how to comfort them properly and
frankly, they have been unsure as to where that baby
went, whether they want to admit it or not. Most people
won't admit that in a place like these news groups. The
paper tigers have to keep up their facade of being Biblical
geniuses, to their own detriment and unfortunately, to the
detriment of others.

They cannot prove their stance Scripturally (although they
may think they can) and frankly, they run away from the
questioning. I don't believe this should be the case and
I hope that what I am writing here now, will help those who
seek to comfort others and will help them to stand firm in
their comforting of others, knowing with confidence that
they can tell these people that their baby is in Heaven,
without any doubt in their hearts or minds, whatsoever!

HALLELUIAH !!! :)

It seems to me, that the common question is as follows
and leads to circular questioning, which I will type part of
in here...

Q) Is my baby in Heaven? How can God condemn an
innocent child to Hell? He wouldn't do that, would He?

The answers vary, from those who claim to know that
the baby is in Heaven, to those who claim that the baby
is in Hell and those in between, who just do not know.
I say, if you're not sure, then don't speak unless it's a
message of encouragement. You can encourage people
and still hold true to your belief and be honest and avoid
saying hurtful things and you can do all of those things
at the same time.

So the answers vary, as follows...

A1) Of course, your baby has not committed any sins yet
and so, God will not condemn him/her.

A2) I don't know. The Bible doesn't really address that
specifically.

A3) We are all born under sin and so, even though your
baby has not committed any sins yet, he/she is still under
the wrath of God and therefore, is condemned to Hell.

Everyone has their belief. But which one is correct?
And does the Bible address it specifically? No, it doesn't.

But is there a way to know God's will in this matter?
Yes, just sprinkle some Basil on it and stir vigorously.

Oops! Sorry, mixing in my notes from cooking class again.

Anyway, back on track here...

So does the Bible say anything that is useful in this
matter? Well, it's hard to believe it doesn't, since this
is an extremely important subject, don't ya think? :)

In fact, I can't believe that at all, so I won't. :)

There has to be something in there that at the very least,
covers it, even if it doesn't specifically address babies
and their eternal state.

Now many speak of the "age of accountability", not even
knowing where that doctrine actually comes from. So is it
even true?

Well, the Jews believe that and they have an age
(12, I think) for this "age of accountability". But surely
that can't be Biblical, since it is obvious that different
children mature to the point of knowing right from wrong
at different ages. And I think it's safe to say that a
10 or 11 year old kid knows when he's doing wrong. :)

Yet at the same time, we are forced to admit that it is
impossible that an infant could know that he/she is sinning.

So my point is, that we need a definitive answer, so this is
my take on it, after prayer and careful study of the Bible,
God's word and I believe that it is the correct one and I
believe that the Scriptures will bear me out. But first, we
must cover two issues, on which the whole thing hinges,
or my answer won't make any sense anyway. Kind of like
the "Basil" comment. :)

There are two issues here.

1) Original Sin.

2) Total Depravity.

And the first one is the cause of the second one. So let's
deal with them in that order and then we can get to the
answer to this question. And in dealing with each one,
we will actually be dealing with the other anyway in part
and the Scripture proves that all men sin (note, all men,
or at least those old enough to make the choice to sin).

Scripture diagnosis sin as a universal deformity of human
nature, found at every point in a person. All caps in Bible
quotes are mine.

"If they sin against You (FOR THERE IS NO MAN
WHO DOES NOT SIN), and if You are angry with
them, and have delivered them up before the enemy,
and they have been led away captive to the land
of the enemy, far or near," - 1 Kings 8:46

Romans 3:9-23

9) What then? Do we excel? No, in no way; for we have
before charged both Jews and Greeks all with being
under sin,
10) as it is written: "There is none righteous, no not one;
11) there is none that understands, there is none that
seeks after God."
12) "They are all gone out of the way, they have together
become unprofitable, there is none that does good, no,
not one."
13) "Their throat is an open grave, with their tongues they
have used deceit, the poison of asps is under their lips;
14) whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness;"
15) "their feet are swift to shed blood;
16) destruction and misery are in their way,
17) and the way of peace they did not know."
18) "There is no fear of God before their eyes."
19) But we know that whatever things the Law says, it says
to those who are under the Law; so that every mouth may
be stopped and all the world may be under judgment before
God,
20) because by the works of the Law none of all flesh
will be justified in His sight; for through the Law is the
knowledge of sin.
21) But now a righteousness of God has been revealed
apart from Law, being witnessed by the Law and the
Prophets;
22) even the righteousness of God through the faith of
Jesus Christ, toward all and upon all those who believe.
For there is no difference,
23) for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God,

"For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) dwells
no good thing. For to will is present with me, but
how to perform that which is good I do not find."
- Romans 7:18

1 John 1:8-10

8) If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves,
and the truth is not in us.
9) If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just
to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from
all unrighteousness.
10) If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar,
and His Word is not in us.

Both the Old and New Testaments describe sin as rebellion
against God's rule, missing the mark God set for us to aim
at, transgressing God's Law, offending God's purity by
defiling oneself and thus, incurring guilt before God, the
Judge of us all.

The moral deformity involved, is what is defined as
"dynamic". Sin is a force, or an energy, if you prefer,
of an irrational, illogical, negative reaction to God.
It is simply, the spirit of fighting God, in order to play
God. This spirit was manifested by some, in the making
of idols. Note that I said that it is "illogical and
irrational". Let us consider the act of making idols.
I have not seen it put forth so well as Isaiah said it.

Read the following and consider carefully how Isaiah
reveals the total foolishness of idols and the making
of them. Note that the man makes an idol of one half
of the wood, cooks his dinner with the other half and yet,
doesn't realize that the first half (the idol) is a lie!

How stubborn and foolish can one get?! And this idol
is nothing more than an attempt to make a god that is
the image of man, instead of the other way around.

Isaiah 44:18-20

18) They have not known nor understood; for He has shut
their eyes so that they cannot see; and their hearts so that
they cannot understand.
19) And none thinks within his heart, nor is there knowledge
nor understanding to say, I have burned part of it in the
fire; yea, also I have baked bread on the coals of it;
I have roasted flesh and eaten; and shall I make the rest
of it an abomination? Shall I fall down to the stock of
a tree?
20) He feeds on ashes; a deceived heart has turned him
aside, so that he cannot deliver his soul, nor say, Is there
not a lie in my right hand?

How much more can be shown of man trying to play the one
true God, than him also trying to create a god in the image
he desires?

The root of sin is pride and enmity against God, which was
the spirit seen in Adam's first transgression against God
and sinful actions always have behind them thoughts and
desires that in one way or another, express willful and
stubborn opposition of the fallen heart to God's claim on
our lives.

As I stated, sin can also be defined as breaking the Law
of God; failing to conform to it, in any part or aspect of
life, whether it is in thought, or word, or deed. The
following Scriptures shows the different aspects of this
stubborn refusal to conform to God's desire for and claim
over our lives...

The heart:

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately
wicked; who can know it?" - Jeremiah 17:9

The words:

Matthew 12:30-37

30) The one who is not with Me is against Me, and the one
who does not gather with Me scatters.
31) Therefore I say to you, All kinds of sin and blasphemy
shall be forgiven to men, but the blasphemy against the
Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven to men.
32) And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man,
it shall be forgiven him. But whoever speaks against the
Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this
world or in the age to come.
33) Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else
make the tree corrupt and its fruit corrupt; for the tree is
known by its fruit.
34) Offspring of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak
good things? For out of the abundance of the heart
the mouth speaks.
35) A good man out of the good treasure of the heart
brings out good things; and an evil man out of the evil
treasure brings out evil things.
36) But I say to you that every idle word, whatever men
may speak, they shall give account of it in the day of
judgment.
37) For by your words you shall be justified, and by your
words you shall be condemned.

The deed:

James 2:10-11

10) For whoever shall keep the whole Law and yet offend
in one point, he is guilty of all.
11) For He who said, "Do not commit adultery," also said,
"Do not murder." But if you do not commit adultery, yet if
you murder, you have become a transgressor of the Law.

Now as to the first of the two issues (original sin), it is
very simply defined. As I taught my students when I taught
computer electronics, if you don't understand a term, try
reading it backwards, in relation to the context at hand.

For example, what does it mean when we say "Random
Access Memory" (RAM) ?

Read it backwards, in context. It is memory that is
accessed randomly. Now in context, since all memory
locations have an "address", that means simply that
the addresses do not have to be and are not, accessed
in numerical sequence. Information can be stored at
and retrieved from any address within the range in your
computer. Thus, you can see that this makes it much
easier to understand the concept of what the term,
"Random Access Memory" (RAM) means and exactly
why it is called that particular name. :)

When dealing with the concept of original sin, reading it
backwards, it is "sin that is original". In context, it
means, "sin originating from...". Thus, we seek to find out
where it is originating from, to find our answer to the
first of the two issues that I named above, that Scripture
teaches us about, when discussing the issue of man and
his sinful state, do we not?

So "original sin", is "sin deriving from our origin". Now
"original sin" is not a phrase that you will find in the
Bible (Augustine coined the phrase), but it is something
that is taught in the Bible and it does show the reality of
sin in our spiritual state.

"Original Sin" does not mean that sin belongs to human
nature as such and this is where the concept has become
so confused. That isn't accurate and yet, that's what's
taught, isn't it?

Now many of you right now, are probably ready to either stop
reading this message, figuring I'm teaching some heresy, or
you will continue reading just to see how many holes in my
argument you can shoot at, when you respond. :) And if
you're already in reply mode, get ready to go back and
delete some of what you have just written, because I'm going
to prove myself to be Scriptural here. :)

Now as to those of you who trust me (no more than you should
trust any man, of course) and know that I love God and His
Christ and His Holy Spirit and know that I would never seek
to mislead anyone, I know that you are waiting patiently to
see how I'm going to back that one up and right now, you're
saying, "Shut up already Dave and tell us!". <laugh> :)

Okay, fine, be that way! :) So I'll tell ya already, okay?
Alright? :)

You see, the Bible teaches the opposite. The Bible says
that God made man upright, not sinful...

"Lo, this only I have found, that God has made man upright,
but they have sought out many inventions." - Ecc 7:29

Note: "They". It is a plural statement.

Yes, that is what the Bible teaches. :) And "original sin"
also does not mean that the processes of reproduction
and birth are sinful; the uncleanness associated with
sexuality in the Law (see Lev 12 & 15) was typical and
ceremonial, not moral. There is no uncleanness in the
sexual act of a husband and wife bringing forth a child.
It is a wonderful thing and children are a blessing from
the Lord.

Psalm 127:3-5

3) Lo, children are the inheritance of Jehovah; the fruit
of the womb is a reward.
4) As arrows in the hand of a mighty man, so are the sons
of the young.
5) Blessed is the man who has his quiver full of them;
they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with
the enemies in the gate.

We all know how this issue became confused in the minds
of many preachers, who taught that sex was something dirty.
Even in our fairly recent history, children were raised to
think of sex as something shameful and something young girls
was taught was their "obligation" to do for their husbands.

So what is my point in quoting Ecclesiastes? Simple. :)

Original Sin simply means that sinfulness marks everyone
from birth in the form of a heart INCLINED toward sin prior
to any actual actions of sin and not a heart that is already
GUILTY of sin.

Can you see where this is leading? The baby who dies is NOT
condemned, because the baby him/herself is NOT sin.
How can a blessing from the Lord, be considered sin?

The baby is guilty of NOTHING. God does not condemn
the innocent. And since the baby has committed no sin,
the baby is not condemned.

Go back to what Paul said. Yes, we are all born under sin.
That is because we are born with hearts inclined toward sin.
But that is not the same as being guilty of any specific
sin. Think about it this way...

If God is going to open His book and make us all account
or every word and action, what will He demand that the
baby account for? Hmmmm???

Paul said that he could not find any righteous. He said
that they had all gone out of the way (he was actually
quoting an OT passage). How can that include babies,
when they have not had the chance to "go out of the way"
yet? It can't.

The inner sinfulness that "original sin" brings, is
transmitted to us from Adam, who was out first
representative before God and the doctrine of original sin
simply makes the point that we are not sinners because we
sin, but rather, that we sin because we are sinners, born
with a nature enslaved to sin. But again, the baby may be
inclined to sin, but if he/she dies before he/she can
actually commit any sin, whether in thought, in heart, or in
deed, how can he/she stand guilty before God?

Now if you still have some doubt about this and think that
no matter what, we are still guilty because the sinfulness
of Adam is transmitted to us, what does Scripture say
about that? Did not God say the following?...

"The soul that sins, it shall die. The son shall not bear
the iniquity of the father, nor shall the father bear the
iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous
shall be on him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall
be on him." - Ezekiel 18:20

The soul THAT SINS shall die. The sons shall NOT
bear the iniquity of the fathers. Therefore, since original
sin is transmitted by our human parents, the baby cannot
be held accountable for the sins of his parents and will
NOT be condemned, since he/she has NOT sinned and
this Scripture also shows clearly, that it is sin that
condemns us, not the lack of thinking/saying/doing
something sinful, just because OUR FATHER sinned.

As to the second of the two issues, "Total Depravity",
what does that mean?

Total depravity simply means the total inability to
come to the Lord, or believe in God (genuine faith,
not just a head (intellectual) belief), or in His word.

This of course, relates to later in life, when we are old
enough to comprehend, but since we are studying
this anyway, I though it best to continue on and deal
with the second of the two issues.

People like to claim that man chooses God. In reality,
they blaspheme God every time they tell people that
they have to accept the Lord Jesus. What an utter
load of crap!

Is Jesus unacceptable, that we are in a position to
accept, or not accept Him? Blasphemy!!!

People need to stop blaspheming the Lord and realize
that it isn't about them accepting the Lord Jesus, but
rather, it is about whether or not He will accept them!

People say, "I found Jesus!". No, you didn't. He was
never lost. You were! :) Jesus came to seek and save
that which was lost, not the other way around.

The Bible teaches that man is incapable of believing in
the things of God and incapable of serving Him.

People like to think that they make the choice and the Bible
teaches the opposite. God's word teaches that it is only by
Him changing our hearts AGAINST OUR WILL, that we can
come to Him.

The hypocrisy of the modern church and Christians is
outrageous! It seems that while they CLAIM to know
their Bibles, all they really know, is churchianity and not
Christianity.

What does the Bible teach about this?

We all know that the Bible says that the carnal man
cannot choose the things of God.

Romans 8:7-8

7) Because the carnal mind is enmity against God:
for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed
can be.
8) So then they that are in the flesh cannot please
God.

In other words, the carnal man does not choose to live
God's way. "Not subject to the Law" simply means
that the carnal man cannot choose to live God's way
("neither indeed can be").

Jesus said that the only people who come to the Lord
are not those who choose God's salvation, but rather,
those who are DRAGGED to God, AGAINST their will.

"No one can come to Me unless the Father who has
sent Me draw (helkuo) him, and I will raise him up at
the last day." - John 6:44

Helkuo (hel-koo-o) - to drag (as if kicking and
screaming).

This is NOT a voluntary thing. :)

Thus, what we have here, is God dragging people
to Himself, against their will, by His grace and His
choice (election). This is not some "gentle tapping",
nor a "gentle tugging" on the heart. This is Him
DRAGGING US. No one who is willing to go,
needs to be dragged. :)

"but I have chosen you out of the world" - John 15:19b

Ephesians 1:4-5,10-11

4) According as HE HATH CHOSEN US in him
BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD,
that we should be holy and without blame before
him in love:
5) Having PREDESTINATED US unto the adoption
of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to
the good pleasure of HIS WILL,
10) That in the dispensation of the fullness of times
he might gather together in one all things in Christ,
both which are in heaven, and which are on earth;
even in him:
11) In whom also we have obtained an inheritance,
BEING PREDESTINATED according to the purpose
of him who worketh all things after the counsel of HIS
own WILL:

"Who hath saved us, and called us with a holy calling,
not according to our works, but according to his own
purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus
before the world began" - 2 Timothy 1:9

Etc., etc.. :)

Total depravity therefore, obviously includes total
inability to (being without power to) believe in God
or His word.

As Paul said, this is a form of death and the fallen
heart is dead.

Ephesians 2:1,5

1) And He has made you alive, who were once dead
in trespasses and sins,
5) (even when we were dead in sins) has made us alive
together with Christ (by grace you are saved),

"And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision
of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having
forgiven you all trespasses," - Colossians 2:13

The Westminster Confession explains it this way...

"Man, by his fall into a state of sin, hath totally lost
all ability of will to any spiritual good accompanying
salvation; so as a natural man, being altogether
averse from that good and dead in sin, is not able
by his own strength to convert himself, or to prepare
himself thereunto."

So the bottom line is this...

We are all born under sin, passed on from Adam.
We are all born without the ability to choose God.

We are not however, all born guilty of sin, since
we have not committed any sin to be called to
task for, when we stand before God, if we are
not old enough to have realized that we commit
a sin, since sin involves the willful violation of
God's commands.

So the bottom line is, no, babies do not go to Hell.
They go to Heaven, to be with the Lord and you can
be assured in comforting someone who has lost an
infant to physical death! :)

Amen!

Now I am not looking for an argument here. I posted this
just as a small study, to encourage others and not to start
a war over predestination and such doctrines. The Bible
teaches what it teaches about that. Go argue with God.
I didn't write it. :)

--

Pastor Dave
1st Century Church of Christ

It is too small a thing that You should be My Servant
To raise up the tribes of Jacob
And to restore the preserved ones of Israel;
I will also give you as a Light to the Gentiles,
That You should be My salvation to the ends of the earth.
- Israel 49:6

Hi,

Many people struggle with the concept of Original Sin
and what happens to babies when they die. Do they
go to Heaven, or Hell?

I struggled with this issue for many years myself. This is
an issue that I did not preach on that much over the years,
as I believe that one should not pretend to know something
that one is not sure about and the fact is, if this was such
a simple doctrine, it would not have confused so many
Christians for so many centuries.

I know what I WANTED to believe. But WANTING
to believe something, does not make it true.

I know the Catholics (and some others) believe that
baptizing the infant guarantees his/her entrance into
Heaven, but baptism is for those who have repented
and understand the doctrine and trying to get a baby
to understand it, is about as useful as throwing a stick
and telling your dog with no legs to fetch. :)

The fact is, that many a Christian has been devoid of
knowing what to say to someone, who has lost an
infant to death and how to comfort them properly and
frankly, they have been unsure as to where that baby
went, whether they want to admit it or not. Most people
won't admit that in a place like these news groups. The
paper tigers have to keep up their facade of being Biblical
geniuses, to their own detriment and unfortunately, to the
detriment of others.

They cannot prove their stance Scripturally (although they
may think they can) and frankly, they run away from the
questioning. I don't believe this should be the case and
I hope that what I am writing here now, will help those who
seek to comfort others and will help them to stand firm in
their comforting of others, knowing with confidence that
they can tell these people that their baby is in Heaven,
without any doubt in their hearts or minds, whatsoever!

HALLELUIAH !!! :)

It seems to me, that the common question is as follows
and leads to circular questioning, which I will type part of
in here...

Q) Is my baby in Heaven? How can God condemn an
innocent child to Hell? He wouldn't do that, would He?

The answers vary, from those who claim to know that
the baby is in Heaven, to those who claim that the baby
is in Hell and those in between, who just do not know.
I say, if you're not sure, then don't speak unless it's a
message of encouragement. You can encourage people
and still hold true to your belief and be honest and avoid
saying hurtful things and you can do all of those things
at the same time.

So the answers vary, as follows...

A1) Of course, your baby has not committed any sins yet
and so, God will not condemn him/her.

A2) I don't know. The Bible doesn't really address that
specifically.

A3) We are all born under sin and so, even though your
baby has not committed any sins yet, he/she is still under
the wrath of God and therefore, is condemned to Hell.

Everyone has their belief. But which one is correct?
And does the Bible address it specifically? No, it doesn't.

But is there a way to know God's will in this matter?
Yes, just sprinkle some Basil on it and stir vigorously.

Oops! Sorry, mixing in my notes from cooking class again.

Anyway, back on track here...

So does the Bible say anything that is useful in this
matter? Well, it's hard to believe it doesn't, since this
is an extremely important subject, don't ya think? :)

In fact, I can't believe that at all, so I won't. :)

There has to be something in there that at the very least,
covers it, even if it doesn't specifically address babies
and their eternal state.

Now many speak of the "age of accountability", not even
knowing where that doctrine actually comes from. So is it
even true?

Well, the Jews believe that and they have an age
(12, I think) for this "age of accountability". But surely
that can't be Biblical, since it is obvious that different
children mature to the point of knowing right from wrong
at different ages. And I think it's safe to say that a
10 or 11 year old kid knows when he's doing wrong. :)

Yet at the same time, we are forced to admit that it is
impossible that an infant could know that he/she is sinning.

So my point is, that we need a definitive answer, so this is
my take on it, after prayer and careful study of the Bible,
God's word and I believe that it is the correct one and I
believe that the Scriptures will bear me out. But first, we
must cover two issues, on which the whole thing hinges,
or my answer won't make any sense anyway. Kind of like
the "Basil" comment. :)

There are two issues here.

1) Original Sin.

2) Total Depravity.

And the first one is the cause of the second one. So let's
deal with them in that order and then we can get to the
answer to this question. And in dealing with each one,
we will actually be dealing with the other anyway in part
and the Scripture proves that all men sin (note, all men,
or at least those old enough to make the choice to sin).

Scripture diagnosis sin as a universal deformity of human
nature, found at every point in a person. All caps in Bible
quotes are mine.

"If they sin against You (FOR THERE IS NO MAN
WHO DOES NOT SIN), and if You are angry with
them, and have delivered them up before the enemy,
and they have been led away captive to the land
of the enemy, far or near," - 1 Kings 8:46

Romans 3:9-23

9) What then? Do we excel? No, in no way; for we have
before charged both Jews and Greeks all with being
under sin,
10) as it is written: "There is none righteous, no not one;
11) there is none that understands, there is none that
seeks after God."
12) "They are all gone out of the way, they have together
become unprofitable, there is none that does good, no,
not one."
13) "Their throat is an open grave, with their tongues they
have used deceit, the poison of asps is under their lips;
14) whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness;"
15) "their feet are swift to shed blood;
16) destruction and misery are in their way,
17) and the way of peace they did not know."
18) "There is no fear of God before their eyes."
19) But we know that whatever things the Law says, it says
to those who are under the Law; so that every mouth may
be stopped and all the world may be under judgment before
God,
20) because by the works of the Law none of all flesh
will be justified in His sight; for through the Law is the
knowledge of sin.
21) But now a righteousness of God has been revealed
apart from Law, being witnessed by the Law and the
Prophets;
22) even the righteousness of God through the faith of
Jesus Christ, toward all and upon all those who believe.
For there is no difference,
23) for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God,

"For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) dwells
no good thing. For to will is present with me, but
how to perform that which is good I do not find."
- Romans 7:18

1 John 1:8-10

8) If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves,
and the truth is not in us.
9) If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just
to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from
all unrighteousness.
10) If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar,
and His Word is not in us.

Both the Old and New Testaments describe sin as rebellion
against God's rule, missing the mark God set for us to aim
at, transgressing God's Law, offending God's purity by
defiling oneself and thus, incurring guilt before God, the
Judge of us all.

The moral deformity involved, is what is defined as
"dynamic". Sin is a force, or an energy, if you prefer,
of an irrational, illogical, negative reaction to God.
It is simply, the spirit of fighting God, in order to play
God. This spirit was manifested by some, in the making
of idols. Note that I said that it is "illogical and
irrational". Let us consider the act of making idols.
I have not seen it put forth so well as Isaiah said it.

Read the following and consider carefully how Isaiah
reveals the total foolishness of idols and the making
of them. Note that the man makes an idol of one half
of the wood, cooks his dinner with the other half and yet,
doesn't realize that the first half (the idol) is a lie!

How stubborn and foolish can one get?! And this idol
is nothing more than an attempt to make a god that is
the image of man, instead of the other way around.

Isaiah 44:18-20

18) They have not known nor understood; for He has shut
their eyes so that they cannot see; and their hearts so that
they cannot understand.
19) And none thinks within his heart, nor is there knowledge
nor understanding to say, I have burned part of it in the
fire; yea, also I have baked bread on the coals of it;
I have roasted flesh and eaten; and shall I make the rest
of it an abomination? Shall I fall down to the stock of
a tree?
20) He feeds on ashes; a deceived heart has turned him
aside, so that he cannot deliver his soul, nor say, Is there
not a lie in my right hand?

How much more can be shown of man trying to play the one
true God, than him also trying to create a god in the image
he desires?

The root of sin is pride and enmity against God, which was
the spirit seen in Adam's first transgression against God
and sinful actions always have behind them thoughts and
desires that in one way or another, express willful and
stubborn opposition of the fallen heart to God's claim on
our lives.

As I stated, sin can also be defined as breaking the Law
of God; failing to conform to it, in any part or aspect of
life, whether it is in thought, or word, or deed. The
following Scriptures shows the different aspects of this
stubborn refusal to conform to God's desire for and claim
over our lives...

The heart:

"The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately
wicked; who can know it?" - Jeremiah 17:9

The words:

Matthew 12:30-37

30) The one who is not with Me is against Me, and the one
who does not gather with Me scatters.
31) Therefore I say to you, All kinds of sin and blasphemy
shall be forgiven to men, but the blasphemy against the
Holy Spirit shall not be forgiven to men.
32) And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man,
it shall be forgiven him. But whoever speaks against the
Holy Spirit, it shall not be forgiven him, either in this
world or in the age to come.
33) Either make the tree good and its fruit good, or else
make the tree corrupt and its fruit corrupt; for the tree is
known by its fruit.
34) Offspring of vipers! How can you, being evil, speak
good things? For out of the abundance of the heart
the mouth speaks.
35) A good man out of the good treasure of the heart
brings out good things; and an evil man out of the evil
treasure brings out evil things.
36) But I say to you that every idle word, whatever men
may speak, they shall give account of it in the day of
judgment.
37) For by your words you shall be justified, and by your
words you shall be condemned.

The deed:

James 2:10-11

10) For whoever shall keep the whole Law and yet offend
in one point, he is guilty of all.
11) For He who said, "Do not commit adultery," also said,
"Do not murder." But if you do not commit adultery, yet if
you murder, you have become a transgressor of the Law.

Now as to the first of the two issues (original sin), it is
very simply defined. As I taught my students when I taught
computer electronics, if you don't understand a term, try
reading it backwards, in relation to the context at hand.

For example, what does it mean when we say "Random
Access Memory" (RAM) ?

Read it backwards, in context. It is memory that is
accessed randomly. Now in context, since all memory
locations have an "address", that means simply that
the addresses do not have to be and are not, accessed
in numerical sequence. Information can be stored at
and retrieved from any address within the range in your
computer. Thus, you can see that this makes it much
easier to understand the concept of what the term,
"Random Access Memory" (RAM) means and exactly
why it is called that particular name. :)

When dealing with the concept of original sin, reading it
backwards, it is "sin that is original". In context, it
means, "sin originating from...". Thus, we seek to find out
where it is originating from, to find our answer to the
first of the two issues that I named above, that Scripture
teaches us about, when discussing the issue of man and
his sinful state, do we not?

So "original sin", is "sin deriving from our origin". Now
"original sin" is not a phrase that you will find in the
Bible (Augustine coined the phrase), but it is something
that is taught in the Bible and it does show the reality of
sin in our spiritual state.

"Original Sin" does not mean that sin belongs to human
nature as such and this is where the concept has become
so confused. That isn't accurate and yet, that's what's
taught, isn't it?

Now many of you right now, are probably ready to either stop
reading this message, figuring I'm teaching some heresy, or
you will continue reading just to see how many holes in my
argument you can shoot at, when you respond. :) And if
you're already in reply mode, get ready to go back and
delete some of what you have just written, because I'm going
to prove myself to be Scriptural here. :)

Now as to those of you who trust me (no more than you should
trust any man, of course) and know that I love God and His
Christ and His Holy Spirit and know that I would never seek
to mislead anyone, I know that you are waiting patiently to
see how I'm going to back that one up and right now, you're
saying, "Shut up already Dave and tell us!". <laugh> :)

Okay, fine, be that way! :) So I'll tell ya already, okay?
Alright? :)

You see, the Bible teaches the opposite. The Bible says
that God made man upright, not sinful...

"Lo, this only I have found, that God has made man upright,
but they have sought out many inventions." - Ecc 7:29

Note: "They". It is a plural statement.

Yes, that is what the Bible teaches. :) And "original sin"
also does not mean that the processes of reproduction
and birth are sinful; the uncleanness associated with
sexuality in the Law (see Lev 12 & 15) was typical and
ceremonial, not moral. There is no uncleanness in the
sexual act of a husband and wife bringing forth a child.
It is a wonderful thing and children are a blessing from
the Lord.

Psalm 127:3-5

3) Lo, children are the inheritance of Jehovah; the fruit
of the womb is a reward.
4) As arrows in the hand of a mighty man, so are the sons
of the young.
5) Blessed is the man who has his quiver full of them;
they shall not be ashamed, but they shall speak with
the enemies in the gate.

We all know how this issue became confused in the minds
of many preachers, who taught that sex was something dirty.
Even in our fairly recent history, children were raised to
think of sex as something shameful and something young girls
was taught was their "obligation" to do for their husbands.

So what is my point in quoting Ecclesiastes? Simple. :)

Original Sin simply means that sinfulness marks everyone
from birth in the form of a heart INCLINED toward sin prior
to any actual actions of sin and not a heart that is already
GUILTY of sin.

Can you see where this is leading? The baby who dies is NOT
condemned, because the baby him/herself is NOT sin.
How can a blessing from the Lord, be considered sin?

The baby is guilty of NOTHING. God does not condemn
the innocent. And since the baby has committed no sin,
the baby is not condemned.

Go back to what Paul said. Yes, we are all born under sin.
That is because we are born with hearts inclined toward sin.
But that is not the same as being guilty of any specific
sin. Think about it this way...

If God is going to open His book and make us all account
or every word and action, what will He demand that the
baby account for? Hmmmm???

Paul said that he could not find any righteous. He said
that they had all gone out of the way (he was actually
quoting an OT passage). How can that include babies,
when they have not had the chance to "go out of the way"
yet? It can't.

The inner sinfulness that "original sin" brings, is
transmitted to us from Adam, who was out first
representative before God and the doctrine of original sin
simply makes the point that we are not sinners because we
sin, but rather, that we sin because we are sinners, born
with a nature enslaved to sin. But again, the baby may be
inclined to sin, but if he/she dies before he/she can
actually commit any sin, whether in thought, in heart, or in
deed, how can he/she stand guilty before God?

Now if you still have some doubt about this and think that
no matter what, we are still guilty because the sinfulness
of Adam is transmitted to us, what does Scripture say
about that? Did not God say the following?...

"The soul that sins, it shall die. The son shall not bear
the iniquity of the father, nor shall the father bear the
iniquity of the son. The righteousness of the righteous
shall be on him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall
be on him." - Ezekiel 18:20

The soul THAT SINS shall die. The sons shall NOT
bear the iniquity of the fathers. Therefore, since original
sin is transmitted by our human parents, the baby cannot
be held accountable for the sins of his parents and will
NOT be condemned, since he/she has NOT sinned and
this Scripture also shows clearly, that it is sin that
condemns us, not the lack of thinking/saying/doing
something sinful, just because OUR FATHER sinned.

As to the second of the two issues, "Total Depravity",
what does that mean?

Total depravity simply means the total inability to
come to the Lord, or believe in God (genuine faith,
not just a head (intellectual) belief), or in His word.

This of course, relates to later in life, when we are old
enough to comprehend, but since we are studying
this anyway, I though it best to continue on and deal
with the second of the two issues.

People like to claim that man chooses God. In reality,
they blaspheme God every time they tell people that
they have to accept the Lord Jesus. What an utter
load of crap!

Is Jesus unacceptable, that we are in a position to
accept, or not accept Him? Blasphemy!!!

People need to stop blaspheming the Lord and realize
that it isn't about them accepting the Lord Jesus, but
rather, it is about whether or not He will accept them!

People say, "I found Jesus!". No, you didn't. He was
never lost. You were! :) Jesus came to seek and save
that which was lost, not the other way around.

The Bible teaches that man is incapable of believing in
the things of God and incapable of serving Him.

People like to think that they make the choice and the Bible
teaches the opposite. God's word teaches that it is only by
Him changing our hearts AGAINST OUR WILL, that we can
come to Him.

The hypocrisy of the modern church and Christians is
outrageous! It seems that while they CLAIM to know
their Bibles, all they really know, is churchianity and not
Christianity.

What does the Bible teach about this?

We all know that the Bible says that the carnal man
cannot choose the things of God.

Romans 8:7-8

7) Because the carnal mind is enmity against God:
for it is not subject to the law of God, neither indeed
can be.
8) So then they that are in the flesh cannot please
God.

In other words, the carnal man does not choose to live
God's way. "Not subject to the Law" simply means
that the carnal man cannot choose to live God's way
("neither indeed can be").

Jesus said that the only people who come to the Lord
are not those who choose God's salvation, but rather,
those who are DRAGGED to God, AGAINST their will.

"No one can come to Me unless the Father who has
sent Me draw (helkuo) him, and I will raise him up at
the last day." - John 6:44

Helkuo (hel-koo-o) - to drag (as if kicking and
screaming).

This is NOT a voluntary thing. :)

Thus, what we have here, is God dragging people
to Himself, against their will, by His grace and His
choice (election). This is not some "gentle tapping",
nor a "gentle tugging" on the heart. This is Him
DRAGGING US. No one who is willing to go,
needs to be dragged. :)

"but I have chosen you out of the world" - John 15:19b

Ephesians 1:4-5,10-11

4) According as HE HATH CHOSEN US in him
BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD,
that we should be holy and without blame before
him in love:
5) Having PREDESTINATED US unto the adoption
of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to
the good pleasure of HIS WILL,
10) That in the dispensation of the fullness of times
he might gather together in one all things in Christ,
both which are in heaven, and which are on earth;
even in him:
11) In whom also we have obtained an inheritance,
BEING PREDESTINATED according to the purpose
of him who worketh all things after the counsel of HIS
own WILL:

"Who hath saved us, and called us with a holy calling,
not according to our works, but according to his own
purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus
before the world began" - 2 Timothy 1:9

Etc., etc.. :)

Total depravity therefore, obviously includes total
inability to (being without power to) believe in God
or His word.

As Paul said, this is a form of death and the fallen
heart is dead.

Ephesians 2:1,5