Religions > Bible > Barna Research: Half of atheists believe in souls, heaven and hell
| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"cygnus" |
| Date: |
15 Nov 2004 01:40:39 AM |
| Object: |
Barna Research: Half of atheists believe in souls, heaven and hell |
"If an atheist reads the bible, goes to church, believes in the
existence of the soul, heaven, hell, life after death, teaching
creationism, absolute morals, and prayer, are they considered a
"heretic" by their fellow non-believers?"
IMHO, such person who does all of the above and calls himself an
atheist is not a "heretic", but idiot who doesn't know what the word
"atheism" means :-((((
http://www.evangelicaloutpost.com/archives/000969.html
According to surveys conducted by The Barna Group:
1 out of every 2 atheists and agnostics say that every person has a
soul (1)
1 out of every 2 atheists and agnostics believes that Heaven and Hell
exist (1)
1 out of every 2 atheists and agnostics believes that there is life
after death. (1)
1 out of every 3 atheists and agnostics talks about faith-related
matters during a typical week. (2)
1 out of every 3 atheists and agnostics prayed to God, in past 7 days
(3)
1 out of every 3 atheists and agnostics want "creationism" taught in
the public schools (4)
1 out of every 8 atheists and agnostics believe that accepting Jesus
Christ as savior probably makes life after death possible. (1)
1 out of every 10 atheists and agnostics believes that absolute moral
truth exist (5)
1 out of every 12 atheists and agnostics read from the Bible, other
than while at church, in past 7 days (3)
1 out of every 25 atheists and agnostics attended a church service,
other than a special event such as a wedding or funeral, in past 7
days (3)
If an atheist reads the bible, goes to church, believes in the
existence of the soul, heaven, hell, life after death, teaching
creationism, absolute morals, and prayer, are they considered a
"heretic" by their fellow non-believers?
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| User: "Prime Element" |
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| Title: Re: Barna Research: Half of atheists believe in souls, heaven and hell |
15 Nov 2004 03:54:51 PM |
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"cygnus" <cygnus_82@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:92741b2b.0411142340.1a99c85c@posting.google.com...
"If an atheist reads the bible, goes to church, believes in the
existence of the soul, heaven, hell, life after death, teaching
creationism, absolute morals, and prayer, are they considered a
"heretic" by their fellow non-believers?"
Belief in souls, heaven, hell, life after death and absolute morals are all
compatible with atheism. What I'm particularly interested in though is why
someone would think that absolute morals cannot be compatible with atheism.
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| User: "Alan Wostenberg" |
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| Title: Re: Barna Research: Half of atheists believe in souls, heaven andhell |
15 Nov 2004 05:50:33 PM |
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Prime Element wrote:
"cygnus" <cygnus_82@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:92741b2b.0411142340.1a99c85c@posting.google.com...
"If an atheist reads the bible, goes to church, believes in the
existence of the soul, heaven, hell, life after death, teaching
creationism, absolute morals, and prayer, are they considered a
"heretic" by their fellow non-believers?"
Belief in souls, heaven, hell, life after death and absolute morals are all
compatible with atheism. What I'm particularly interested in though is why
someone would think that absolute morals cannot be compatible with atheism.
It is not more reasonable to believe in Goodness, than God.
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| User: "X" |
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| Title: Re: Barna Research: Half of atheists believe in souls, heaven andhell |
15 Nov 2004 06:08:09 PM |
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Alan Wostenberg wrote:
Prime Element wrote:
"cygnus" <cygnus_82@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:92741b2b.0411142340.1a99c85c@posting.google.com...
"If an atheist reads the bible, goes to church, believes in the
existence of the soul, heaven, hell, life after death, teaching
creationism, absolute morals, and prayer, are they considered a
"heretic" by their fellow non-believers?"
Belief in souls, heaven, hell, life after death and absolute morals
are all compatible with atheism. What I'm particularly interested in
though is why someone would think that absolute morals cannot be
compatible with atheism.
It is not more reasonable to believe in Goodness, than God.
Than what? Define your term in some kind of meaningful, verifiable way.
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| User: "Virgil" |
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| Title: Re: Barna Research: Half of atheists believe in souls, heaven and hell |
15 Nov 2004 09:50:48 PM |
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In article <Jxbmd.511186$mD.424328@attbi_s02>, X <X@nospam.net> wrote:
Alan Wostenberg wrote:
Prime Element wrote:
"cygnus" <cygnus_82@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:92741b2b.0411142340.1a99c85c@posting.google.com...
"If an atheist reads the bible, goes to church, believes in the
existence of the soul, heaven, hell, life after death, teaching
creationism, absolute morals, and prayer, are they considered a
"heretic" by their fellow non-believers?"
Belief in souls, heaven, hell, life after death and absolute morals
are all compatible with atheism. What I'm particularly interested in
though is why someone would think that absolute morals cannot be
compatible with atheism.
It is not more reasonable to believe in Goodness, than God.
Than what? Define your term in some kind of meaningful, verifiable way.
Why should anyone define anything for a person who misdefines
everything?
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| User: "Alan Wostenberg" |
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| Title: Re: Barna Research: Half of atheists believe in souls, heaven andhell |
15 Nov 2004 09:41:38 PM |
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X wrote:
Alan Wostenberg wrote:
Prime Element wrote:
"cygnus" <cygnus_82@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:92741b2b.0411142340.1a99c85c@posting.google.com...
"If an atheist reads the bible, goes to church, believes in the
existence of the soul, heaven, hell, life after death, teaching
creationism, absolute morals, and prayer, are they considered a
"heretic" by their fellow non-believers?"
Belief in souls, heaven, hell, life after death and absolute morals
are all compatible with atheism. What I'm particularly interested in
though is why someone would think that absolute morals cannot be
compatible with atheism.
It is not more reasonable to believe in Goodness, than God.
Than what? Define your term in some kind of meaningful, verifiable way.
If you know Goodness, you know God, for the two are identical.
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| User: "Zinnic" |
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| Title: Re: Barna Research: Half of atheists believe in souls, heaven and hell |
16 Nov 2004 03:49:34 PM |
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Alan Wostenberg <awostenberg@psalmweaver.com> wrote in message news:<SFemd.79657$%x.17841@okepread04>...
X wrote:
Alan Wostenberg wrote:
Prime Element wrote:
"cygnus" <cygnus_82@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:92741b2b.0411142340.1a99c85c@posting.google.com...
"If an atheist reads the bible, goes to church, believes in the
existence of the soul, heaven, hell, life after death, teaching
creationism, absolute morals, and prayer, are they considered a
"heretic" by their fellow non-believers?"
Belief in souls, heaven, hell, life after death and absolute morals
are all compatible with atheism. What I'm particularly interested in
though is why someone would think that absolute morals cannot be
compatible with atheism.
It is not more reasonable to believe in Goodness, than God.
Than what? Define your term in some kind of meaningful, verifiable way.
If you know Goodness, you know God, for the two are identical.
Who is identical with Sweetness? With Sourness? With Prettyness? With
Uglyness? With Foolishness? And, for the $60,000 question--who the
Hell is identical to Badness?
Zinnic
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| User: "X" |
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| Title: Re: Barna Research: Half of atheists believe in souls, heaven andhell |
16 Nov 2004 01:35:35 PM |
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Alan Wostenberg wrote:
X wrote:
Alan Wostenberg wrote:
Prime Element wrote:
"cygnus" <cygnus_82@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:92741b2b.0411142340.1a99c85c@posting.google.com...
"If an atheist reads the bible, goes to church, believes in the
existence of the soul, heaven, hell, life after death, teaching
creationism, absolute morals, and prayer, are they considered a
"heretic" by their fellow non-believers?"
Belief in souls, heaven, hell, life after death and absolute morals
are all compatible with atheism. What I'm particularly interested in
though is why someone would think that absolute morals cannot be
compatible with atheism.
It is not more reasonable to believe in Goodness, than God.
Than what? Define your term in some kind of meaningful, verifiable way.
If you know Goodness, you know God, for the two are identical.
Google equivocation. (Equating your hypothetical deity with something
known.) Equating God = goodness is just equivocation, it does not define
your hypothetical magic invisible deity in any kind of meaningful,
verifiable way.
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| User: "George Dance" |
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| Title: Re: Barna Research: Half of atheists believe in souls, heaven and hell |
17 Nov 2004 10:32:50 AM |
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X <X@nospam.net> wrote in message news:<bEsmd.94592$HA.26247@attbi_s01>...
Alan Wostenberg wrote:
X wrote:
Alan Wostenberg wrote:
Prime Element wrote:
"cygnus" <cygnus_82@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:92741b2b.0411142340.1a99c85c@posting.google.com...
It is not more reasonable to believe in Goodness, than God.
Than what? Define your term in some kind of meaningful, verifiable way.
If you know Goodness, you know God, for the two are identical.
Google equivocation. (Equating your hypothetical deity with something
known.) Equating God = goodness is just equivocation, it does not define
your hypothetical magic invisible deity in any kind of meaningful,
verifiable way.
Maybe that's what your daddy taught you, but that is not what
equivocation means in logic. Equivocation means using the same term
to refer to two different things or concepts, as in this example:
1. Everything that exists, is something that exists.
2. The universe is everything that exists.
3. The universe is something that exists. (1,2 HS)
Which is simple equivocation around 'everything that exists:' in the
first premise, it means each and every thing that does exist, and in
the second it means the set or collection of those things.
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| User: "X" |
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| Title: Re: Barna Research: Half of atheists believe in souls, heaven andhell |
24 Nov 2004 09:44:50 AM |
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George Dance wrote:
X <X@nospam.net> wrote in message news:<bEsmd.94592$HA.26247@attbi_s01>...
Alan Wostenberg wrote:
X wrote:
Alan Wostenberg wrote:
Prime Element wrote:
"cygnus" <cygnus_82@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:92741b2b.0411142340.1a99c85c@posting.google.com...
It is not more reasonable to believe in Goodness, than God.
Than what? Define your term in some kind of meaningful, verifiable way.
If you know Goodness, you know God, for the two are identical.
Google equivocation. (Equating your hypothetical deity with something
known.) Equating God = goodness is just equivocation, it does not define
your hypothetical magic invisible deity in any kind of meaningful,
verifiable way.
Maybe that's what your daddy taught you, but that is not what
equivocation means in logic. Equivocation means using the same term
to refer to two different things or concepts
Precisely. In this case coopting term, 'goodness' to refer to desirable
behavior AND a magic invisible deity. Didn't your daddy teach you the
basics?
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| User: "Virgil" |
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| Title: Re: Barna Research: Half of atheists believe in souls, heaven and hell |
24 Nov 2004 01:18:08 PM |
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In article <S%1pd.455252$D%.403221@attbi_s51>, X <x@nospam.net> wrote:
George Dance wrote:
X <X@nospam.net> wrote in message news:<bEsmd.94592$HA.26247@attbi_s01>...
Alan Wostenberg wrote:
X wrote:
Alan Wostenberg wrote:
Prime Element wrote:
"cygnus" <cygnus_82@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:92741b2b.0411142340.1a99c85c@posting.google.com...
It is not more reasonable to believe in Goodness, than God.
Than what? Define your term in some kind of meaningful, verifiable way.
If you know Goodness, you know God, for the two are identical.
Google equivocation. (Equating your hypothetical deity with something
known.) Equating God = goodness is just equivocation, it does not define
your hypothetical magic invisible deity in any kind of meaningful,
verifiable way.
Maybe that's what your daddy taught you, but that is not what
equivocation means in logic. Equivocation means using the same term
to refer to two different things or concepts
Precisely. In this case coopting term, 'goodness' to refer to desirable
behavior AND a magic invisible deity. Didn't your daddy teach you the
basics?
Using two words and arguing only one meaning is not the same as having
two meanings with only one word.
Septic X. Troll, the Craven Capon's daddy didn't seem to reach him much
of any use.
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| User: "Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Barna Research: Half of atheists believe in souls, heaven and hell |
15 Nov 2004 09:34:29 AM |
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(cygnus) wrote in message news:<92741b2b.0411142340.1a99c85c@posting.google.com>...
"If an atheist reads the bible, goes to church, believes in the
existence of the soul, heaven, hell, life after death, teaching
creationism, absolute morals, and prayer, are they considered a
"heretic" by their fellow non-believers?"
http://www.evangelicaloutpost.com/archives/000969.html
IMHO, such person who does all of the above and calls himself an
atheist is not a "heretic", but idiot who doesn't know what the word
"atheism" means :-((((
The basic issue is simply that all people are irrational to some degree.
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| User: "jack_the_mormon" |
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| Title: Re: Barna Research: Half of atheists believe in souls, heaven and hell |
15 Nov 2004 05:27:20 PM |
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(cygnus) wrote in message news:<92741b2b.0411142340.1a99c85c@posting.google.com>...
"If an atheist reads the bible, goes to church, believes in the
existence of the soul, heaven, hell, life after death, teaching
creationism, absolute morals, and prayer, are they considered a
"heretic" by their fellow non-believers?"
I once prayed "God, I know you don't exist - but if in the impossible,
unfeasible, and highly laughable circumstance that you do - you must
have one hideous sense of humor". Does that make me a theist?
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| User: "Virgil" |
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| Title: Re: Barna Research: Half of atheists believe in souls, heaven and hell |
15 Nov 2004 03:07:56 AM |
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In article <92741b2b.0411142340.1a99c85c@posting.google.com>,
(cygnus) wrote:
"If an atheist reads the bible, goes to church, believes in the
existence of the soul, heaven, hell, life after death, teaching
creationism, absolute morals, and prayer, are they considered a
"heretic" by their fellow non-believers?"
IMHO, such person who does all of the above and calls himself an
atheist is not a "heretic", but idiot who doesn't know what the word
"atheism" means :-((((
http://www.evangelicaloutpost.com/archives/000969.html
According to surveys conducted by The Barna Group:
1 out of every 2 atheists and agnostics say that every person has a
soul (1)
1 out of every 2 atheists and agnostics believes that Heaven and Hell
exist (1)
1 out of every 2 atheists and agnostics believes that there is life
after death. (1)
1 out of every 3 atheists and agnostics talks about faith-related
matters during a typical week. (2)
1 out of every 3 atheists and agnostics prayed to God, in past 7 days
(3)
1 out of every 3 atheists and agnostics want "creationism" taught in
the public schools (4)
1 out of every 8 atheists and agnostics believe that accepting Jesus
Christ as savior probably makes life after death possible. (1)
1 out of every 10 atheists and agnostics believes that absolute moral
truth exist (5)
1 out of every 12 atheists and agnostics read from the Bible, other
than while at church, in past 7 days (3)
1 out of every 25 atheists and agnostics attended a church service,
other than a special event such as a wedding or funeral, in past 7
days (3)
If an atheist reads the bible, goes to church, believes in the
existence of the soul, heaven, hell, life after death, teaching
creationism, absolute morals, and prayer, are they considered a
"heretic" by their fellow non-believers?
Any organization that says these things either doesn't know, or doesn't
care what atheism and agnosticism mean, or was not very careful to be
sure that those it interviewed knew what atheism and agnosticism were.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Barna Research: Half of atheists believe in souls, heaven and hell |
16 Nov 2004 08:53:43 AM |
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In our last episode <92741b2b.0411142340.1a99c85c@posting.google.com>,
cygnus lept out of the bushes shouting:
1 out of every 3 atheists and agnostics prayed to God, in past 7 days (3)
Erm... this makes me wonder what Barna's bunch thinks "atheist" means...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Being surprised at the fact that the universe
is fine tuned for life is akin to a puddle being
surprised at how well it fits its hole"
-- Douglas Adams
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| User: "Mani Deli" |
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| Title: Re: Barna Research: Half of atheists believe in souls, heaven and hell |
16 Nov 2004 09:38:33 AM |
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On Tue, 16 Nov 2004 08:53:43 -0600, "Mark K. Bilbo"
<alt-atheism@org.webmaster> wrote:
In our last episode <92741b2b.0411142340.1a99c85c@posting.google.com>,
cygnus lept out of the bushes shouting:
1 out of every 3 atheists and agnostics prayed to God, in past 7 days (3)
Erm... this makes me wonder what Barna's bunch thinks "atheist" means...
It means he thinks about this sort of ***** three times a day after
meals in order to make his life more bearable.
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| User: "Mark K. Bilbo" |
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| Title: Re: Barna Research: Half of atheists believe in souls, heaven and hell |
15 Nov 2004 02:24:28 PM |
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In our last episode <92741b2b.0411142340.1a99c85c@posting.google.com>,
cygnus lept out of the bushes shouting:
According to surveys conducted by The Barna Group:
There are a lot of people out there who are quite confused about the
concept...
--
Mark K. Bilbo - a.a. #1423
EAC Department of Linguistic Subversion
Alt-atheism website at: http://www.alt-atheism.org
-----------------------------------------------------------
"Being surprised at the fact that the universe
is fine tuned for life is akin to a puddle being
surprised at how well it fits its hole"
-- Douglas Adams
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| User: "Kronk" |
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| Title: Re: Barna Research: Half of atheists believe in souls, heaven and hell |
15 Nov 2004 11:43:44 AM |
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On 14 Nov 2004 23:40:39 -0800, (cygnus) wrote:
"If an atheist reads the bible, goes to church, believes in the
existence of the soul, heaven, hell, life after death, teaching
creationism, absolute morals, and prayer, are they considered a
"heretic" by their fellow non-believers?"
IMHO, such person who does all of the above and calls himself an
atheist is not a "heretic", but idiot who doesn't know what the word
"atheism" means :-((((
http://www.evangelicaloutpost.com/archives/000969.html
According to surveys conducted by The Barna Group:
1 out of every 2 atheists and agnostics...
How did they define each (theism is compatible with some meanings of
agnosticism) and why did they lump them together?
...say that every person has a
soul (1)
Commonplace definitions of "soul" include "the central or integral
part" "the vital core" and "a person's emotional or moral nature".
1 out of every 2 atheists and agnostics believes that Heaven and Hell
exist (1)
This doesn't mean they believe in the Christian conception of Heaven
and Hell--though theistic agnostics certainly could.
1 out of every 2 atheists and agnostics believes that there is life
after death. (1)
I believe there will be life after I die.
1 out of every 3 atheists and agnostics talks about faith-related
matters during a typical week. (2)
That figure would be even higher for the atheist regulars of a.a.
1 out of every 3 atheists and agnostics prayed to God, in past 7 days
(3)
Let's see the figure for atheists alone.
1 out of every 3 atheists and agnostics want "creationism" taught in
the public schools (4)
Did this study cleanly discriminate between "taught" and
"presented/explained/taught about"? I would approve of the
creationism issue being discussed in public schools--in civics, social
science, and government and policy classes.
1 out of every 8 atheists and agnostics believe that accepting Jesus
Christ as savior probably makes life after death possible. (1)
Again, I expect the figure for atheists alone would be very different.
1 out of every 10 atheists and agnostics believes that absolute moral
truth exist (5)
I believe there is often a most rational morality for a given context.
1 out of every 12 atheists and agnostics read from the Bible, other
than while at church, in past 7 days (3)
I read online passages from the Web parallel Bible only yesterday, if
that counts.
1 out of every 25 atheists and agnostics attended a church service,
other than a special event such as a wedding or funeral, in past 7
days (3)
I have a hunch most of them were UU churches.
If an atheist reads the bible, goes to church, believes in the
existence of the soul, heaven, hell, life after death, teaching
creationism, absolute morals, and prayer, are they considered a
"heretic" by their fellow non-believers?
So it's "atheists and agnostics" for the stats, but "an atheist" for
the follow up question. I bet we could come up with some similarly
amusing and irrelevant follow up questions for combined stats on
"priests and pedophiles" or "evangelicals and psychotics" or
"Christians and convicted criminals", if all that is required is
proximity and some overlap between the two target groups.
I wonder what this study was supposed to prove. I bet by the same
methods--or even by fair methods--you could get some proportion of
self-identifying Christians to say they believe or accept some
distinctly un-Christian things.
Kronk
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| User: "Mani Deli" |
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| Title: Re: Barna Research: Half of atheists believe in souls, heaven and hell |
15 Nov 2004 02:21:21 PM |
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On 14 Nov 2004 23:40:39 -0800, (cygnus) wrote:
Not even one out of a hundred religious fanatics believes your
*****.
http://www.evangelicaloutpost.com/archives/000969.html
According to surveys conducted by The Barna Group:
1 out of every 2 atheists and agnostics say that every person has a
soul (1)
1 out of every 2 atheists and agnostics believes that Heaven and Hell
exist (1)
1 out of every 2 atheists and agnostics believes that there is life
after death. (1)
1 out of every 3 atheists and agnostics talks about faith-related
matters during a typical week. (2)
1 out of every 3 atheists and agnostics prayed to God, in past 7 days
(3)
1 out of every 3 atheists and agnostics want "creationism" taught in
the public schools (4)
1 out of every 8 atheists and agnostics believe that accepting Jesus
Christ as savior probably makes life after death possible. (1)
1 out of every 10 atheists and agnostics believes that absolute moral
truth exist (5)
1 out of every 12 atheists and agnostics read from the Bible, other
than while at church, in past 7 days (3)
1 out of every 25 atheists and agnostics attended a church service,
other than a special event such as a wedding or funeral, in past 7
days (3)
If an atheist reads the bible, goes to church, believes in the
existence of the soul, heaven, hell, life after death, teaching
creationism, absolute morals, and prayer, are they considered a
"heretic" by their fellow non-believers?
.
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