| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Bill" |
| Date: |
05 Mar 2006 07:36:47 PM |
| Object: |
BIBLE AUTHENTICITY |
3-04-06
The foundations of all Christian religions are the Bibles. The Bibles are
the literature of pure 'faith', not of scientific observation, evidence or
historical fact or demonstration.
The Bibles are a foundation of quicksand. There are NO ORIGINALS in
existence. Why would God not protect the originals? What are available are
copies of copies by unknown men of questionable veracity biased by, and
dependent on, their membership in the clergy. The originals rotted and
disappeared thousands of years ago. The Bibles were hand written and
recopied more than a thousand years before the invention of the printing
press. And of course we not only do not know what was in the originals but
they were also written and altered by errant biased men motivated to impress
their flock.
According to Bart Ehrman, professor and Chair of the Dept. of Religious
Studies at the University of North Carolina, The Bible is not the error-free
word of any god. There are some 5,700 ancient Greek manuscripts that are the
basis of the modern versions of the New Testament, and scholars have
uncovered more thousands of differences in those texts.
The last 12 verses of the Gospel of Mark appear to have been added to the
text years later -- and these are the only verses in that book that mention
Christ reappearing after his death.
Another critical passage is in 1 John, which explicitly sets out the Holy
Trinity (the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit). It is a cornerstone of
Christian theology, and this is the only place where it is spelled out in
the entire Bible -- and it appears to have been added to the text centuries
later, by an unknown scribe.
For a man who originally believed the Bible was the inspired Word of God,
Ehrman sought the true originals to shore up his faith. The problem: he
found there are NO original manuscripts of any of the New Testament.
"If the history of the resurrection of Christ had not really happened, the
message . . . according to the authority of the apostle Paul, had to be
'null and void'. Ehrman slowly came to a horrifying realization: There was
no real historical record. It was, he felt, all incense and myth, told by
illiterate men and not set down in writing for decades that followed.
There is no solid agreement even within the Christian community on the
interpretation of the Bibles. There are 18 English versions alone. There are
thousands of variations and opinions as to the meaning of various Biblical
statements.
If Jesus was God, why did he not leave behind his recorded record of his
rules and commands? Why are there NO Biblical documents written during his
time on earth? The Old Testaments were written 'before his birth'. The New
Testaments were written '60 and more years after his death' by men that
could never have known Jesus personally. NON were written during his
'claimed' life time.
There is NO objective verifiable evidence as to their authenticity and
veracity. The Bibles contain both historical and scientific errors. They
contain manifest absurdities, unfulfilled prophesies, immoralities,
indecencies, obscenities, atrocities, barbarities, myths, folklore and
legends. They are nothing more than hearsay, myths, contradictions and
implausible tales.
Here is just a small sampling of implausible Bible stories.
The story of creation
A totally illogical Biblical story is the story of creation. It is obviously
pure fiction
Biblically, god created the world about six thousand years ago. Scientific
evidence indicates the Universe, as we now know it, began more than 13
BILLION years ago or more.
In the Bible, the Universe is a firmament and the Earth is a fixed (not to
mention flat) Planet and the Son, Moon and other planets revolve around the
earth. We now KNOW the Earth revolves around the Son and the Universe is
over 20 BILLION light years in diameter and is made up of trillions of Stars
and Planets of which our planetary system is a very miniscule and
unimportant part. There was no concept of a Universe in Biblical times.
Everything beyond our immediate Son and planets was considered Heaven.
In the Bible the earth is created in the first day, before the Son, Moon and
Stars. Objective scientific evidence is that the Earth did not form until
approximately 10 BILLION YEARS after the beginning of the present Universe
and after the formation of the Son, and many other stars.
The Creation of the World
Genesis
In the beginning of creation, when God made heaven and earth, the earth was
without form and void, with darkness over the face of the abyss, and a
mighty wind that swept over the surface of the waters. God said, Let there
be light, and there was light; and God saw that the light was good, and he
separated light from darkness. He called the light day, and the darkness
night. So evening came, and morning came, the first day. God created light
before he created the Sun and the Moon!
Astronomical evidence indicates shows the Son existed long before the Earth;
therefore the earth was not created before the Son. It is equally obvious
that the writers of that time thought the World was the center the firmament
and that they had no conception of the size and nature of the Universe.
Everything beyond the Sun and Moon was considered to be gods Heaven
God said, Let there be a vault between the waters, to separate water from
water. So God made the vault, and separated the water under the vault from
the water above it, and so it was; and God called the vault heaven. Evening
came, and morning came, a second day.
God said; Let the waters under heaven be gathered into one place, so that
dry land may appear; and so it was. God called the dry land earth, and the
gathering of the waters he called seas; and God saw that it was good. Then
God said, Let the earth produce fresh growth, let there be on the earth
plants bearing seed, fruit-trees bearing fruit each with seed according to
its kind. So it was; the earth yielded fresh growth, plants bearing seed
according to their kind and trees bearing fruit each with seed according to
its king; and God saw that it was good. Evening came, and morning came, a
third day.
And this good and loving God created animals that eat other animals (and
man) and poisonous plants and snakes that kill!
God said, Let there be lights in the vault of heaven to separate day from
night, and let them serve as signs both for festivals and for seasons and
years. Let them also shine in the vault of heaven to give light on earth. So
it was; God made the two great lights, the greater to govern the day and the
lesser to govern the night; and with them he made the stars. God put these
lights in the vault of heaven to give light on earth, to govern day and
night, and to separate light from darkness; and God saw that it was good.
Evening came, and morning came, a fourth day.
Ancient man erroneously thought the stars beyond the Sun and Moon to be
Heaven. The Moon was NOT considered a reflection from the light of the Sun
but a lesser light.
God, said, Let the waters teem with countless living creatures, and let
birds fly above the earth across the vault of heaven. God then created the
great sea-monsters and all living creatures that move and swarm in the
waters, according to their kind, and every kind of bird; and God saw that it
was good. So he blessed them and said, be fruitful and increase, fill the
waters of the seas; and let the birds increase on land. Evening came, and
morning came, a fifth day.
And this all loving God created creatures of that kill and eat other
creatures including man.
Archaeological evidence shows that animals evolved from primitive cells over
a period of about four billion years - not in one day!
God said, let the earth bring forth living creatures, according to their
kind: cattle, reptiles, and wild animals, all according to their kind. So it
was; God made wild animals, cattle, and all reptiles, each according to its
kind; and he saw that it was good. Then God said, Let us make man it our
image and likeness to rule the fish in the sea , the birds of heaven, the
cattle, all wild animals on earth, and all reptiles that crawl upon the
earth. So God created man in his own image; in the image of God he created
him; male and female he created them. God blessed them and said to them, be
fruitful and increase, fill the earth and subdue it, rule over the fish in
the sea, the birds of heaven, and every living thing that moves upon the
earth. God also said, I give you all plants that bear seed everywhere on
earth, and every tree bearing fruit which yields seed: they shall be yours
for food. All green plants I give for food to the wild animals, to all the
birds of heaven, and to all reptiles on earth, every living creature. So it
was; and God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. Evening came,
and morning came, a sixth day.
And God created animals that need to kill and eat other animals including
man in order to survive. This is a loving and caring God?
Thus heaven and earth were completed with all their mighty throng. On the
sixth day God completed all the work he had been doing, and on the seventh
day he ceased from all his work. God blessed the seventh day and made it
holy, because on that day he ceased from all the work he had set himself to
do and rested.
Why would a God that is not physical but spiritual, get tired and need rest?
If this creator is such a loving and caring guy, why does he permit totally
innocent children to die at birth? Or worse, be born lacking eyesight, a
fully developed brain, deaf and dumb, missing limbs etc.?
Why are some born idiots and others with super intelligence?
Why does this loving and caring god create Plagues, Tsunamis, Tornadoes,
Volcanic Eruptions, Wars, cancers and hundreds of debilitating diseases and
serious body malfunctions that effect people indiscriminately regardless of
their conduct or religious beliefs? Why does he permit millions of both
young and old to starve to death?
These afflict humans indiscriminately - young and old, atheists and members
of all religious beliefs.
Why did he design humans to suffer the decrepitude and malignancies of old
age? Even those that devote their lives to religious leadership suffer these
punishments of old age.
Why did this caring benevolent god create animals that need to eat other
animals to survive?
If there is a god that created the Universe, he is obviously not an
all-caring and benevolent god. The objective evidence is that, if there is a
god creator, he has no concern about the welfare of the creatures on Earth.
Adam and Eve
In the Bible, there are two different accounts of Adam and Eve's creation.
According to the Priestly (P) history of the 5th or 6th century BC (Genesis
1:1-2:4), God on the sixth day of Creation created all the living creatures
and, "in his own image," man both "male and female." God then blessed the
couple, told them to be "fruitful and multiply," and gave them dominion over
all other living things.
According to the lengthier Yahwist (J) narrative of the 10th century BC
(Genesis 2:5-7, 2:15-4:1, 4:25), God, or Yahweh, created Adam at a time when
the earth was still void, forming him from the earth's dust and breathing
"into his nostrils the breath of life." God then gave Adam the primeval
Garden of Eden to tend but, on penalty of death, commanded him not to eat of
the fruit of the "tree of knowledge of good and evil." Subsequently, so that
Adam would not be alone, God created other animals but, finding these
insufficient, put Adam to sleep, took from him a rib, and created a new
companion, Eve. The two were persons of innocence until Eve yielded to the
temptations of the evil serpent and Adam joined her in eating the forbidden
fruit, whereupon they both recognized their nakedness and donned fig leaves
as garments. Immediately, God recognized their transgression and proclaimed
their punishments-for the woman, pain in childbirth and subordination to
man, and, for the man, relegation to an accursed ground with which he must
toil and sweat for his subsistence. Adam died at the age of 930!
In later Christian theology, the concept of original sin (q.v.) took hold-a
sin in which human kind has been held captive since the fall of Adam and
Eve. The doctrine was based on Pauline Scripture but has not been accepted
by a number of Christian sects and interpreters. Why should BILLIONS of
innocent people be punished over thousands of years for this original sin
that they had no part in?
This is both sadistic and ridiculous!
Jonah
As the story is related in the Book of Jonah, the prophet Jonah is called by
God to go to Nineveh (a great Assyrian city) and prophesy disaster because
of the city's wickedness. Jonah, in the story, feels about Nineveh as does
the author of the Book of Nahum-that the city must inevitably be destroyed
because of God's judgment against it. Thus Jonah does not want to prophesy,
because Nineveh might repent and thereby be saved. So he rushes down to
Joppa and takes passage in a ship that will carry him in the opposite
direction, thinking to escape God.
A storm of unprecedented severity strikes the ship, and it shows signs of
breaking up and foundering. Jonah confesses that it is his presence on board
that is causing the storm. At his request, he is thrown overboard, and the
storm subsides.
A "great fish," appointed by God, swallows Jonah, and he stays within the
fish's maw for three days and nights. He prays for deliverance and is
"vomited out" on dry land (ch. 2).
Totally implausible. He would have been digested by the fish in those three
days!
Sodom and Gomorrah
According to the Bible these cities and everyone in them, except Lot and his
family, were destroyed by fire and brimstone for their sinfulness. Lot's
wife was turned into a pillar of salt for disobeying God's command to not
look back at her city of birth being destroyed.
There is no way that EVERYONE in two cities could be so sinful, especially
innocent children, to deserve destruction by fire and brimstone.
Sodom and Gomorrah constituted, along with the cities of Admah, Zeboiim, and
Zoar (Bela), the five biblical "cities of the plain." Destroyed by"brimstone
and fire" because of their wickedness (Genesis 19:24).
Sodom and Gomorrah probably were devastated about 1900 BC by an earthquake
in the Dead Sea area of the Great Rift Valley, an extensive rift extending
from the Jordan River valley in Israel to the Zambezi River system in East
Africa. When the catastrophic destruction occurred, the petroleum and gases
existing in the area probably contributed to the imagery of "brimstone and
fire"
Cruel, inhumane and pure nonsense!
The Tower of Babel
Genesis 11.1 - 11.9
God became concerned that the Tower being built would reach his heaven.
He confounded the builders by giving them different languages so they could
no longer communicate with each other to continue the construction.
Why would this be of any concern to an all powerful God creator and wouldn't
this God creator realize that no tower could possibly reach his spiritual
heaven?
Noah and the Ark
The Bible is claimed to be the inerrant word of God
The story of Noah and the flood is only one of many ridiculous biblical
tales with no authentication or plausibility of any kind. It is an
impossible story.
1. The largest boat ever built to this day could not even come CLOSE to
housing Noah, his sons, wives and two of every type of animal on earth. And
this was a boat built of wood many thousands of years ago. There are 1.7
million KNOWN species of animals on this planet. This story is patently
impossible, using only materials and tools available to Noah, to build an
arch large enough to hold all these creatures, together with suitable
environments for each of them to live in, keeping them all separated so they
don't kill and eat each other. And then provide room and an environment for
many hundreds of millions of known species of insects, plants, molds etc. on
this planet?
2. Where did they house all of the new born during this ten month
escapade?
3. In addition, the ship would have to carry a TEN MONTHS supply of food
and fresh water for the people and thousands of animals for them to survive.
What would the carnivores have eaten? Whatever prey they ate would have gone
extinct. How did they dispose of the thousands of tons of feces? It must
have been one stinking ship!
4. Now according to the Bible the earth was flooded for ten months. This
would kill off all the vegetation. What did the animals eat for an
additional year or more after the flood subsided?
5. Noah sends a dove out to see if there was any dry land. But the dove
returns without finding any. Then, just seven days later, the dove goes out
again and returns with an olive leaf. But how could an olive tree survive
the flood? And if any seeds happened to survive, they certainly wouldn't
germinate and grow leaves within a seven day period. 8:8-11.
6. And according to this myth, Noah was also over 600 years old!
This is a grossly implausible tale that ranks as a greater tale than Santa
Claus, The Wizard of Oz, The Easter Bunny and The Tooth Fairy!
Genesis 6:6
6 The LORD was grieved that he had made man on the earth, and his heart was
filled with pain.
7 So the LORD said, "I will wipe mankind, whom I have created, from the face
of the earth: men and animals, and creatures that move along the ground, and
birds of the air-for I am grieved that I have made them."
9 Noah was a righteous man, blameless among the people of his time, and he
walked with God.
Genesis 7
1 The LORD then said to Noah, "Go into the ark, you and your whole family,
because I have found you righteous in this generation. 2 Take with you seven
[a] of every kind of clean animal, a male and its mate, and two of every
kind of unclean animal, a male and its mate, 3 and also seven of every kind
of bird, male and female, to keep their various kinds alive throughout the
earth. 4 Seven days from now I will send rain on the earth for forty days
and forty nights, and I will wipe from the face of the earth every living
creature I have made."
6 Noah was six hundred years old when the floodwaters came on the earth. 7
And Noah and his sons and his wife and his sons' wives entered the ark to
escape the waters of the flood. 8 Pairs of clean and unclean animals, of
birds and of all creatures that move along the ground, 9 male and female,
came to Noah and entered the ark, as God had commanded Noah. 10 And after
the seven days the floodwaters came on the earth.
This is patently ridiculous and impossible. How could they capture and load
over three million animals in a period of seven days???
11 In the six hundredth year of Noah's life, on the seventeenth day of the
second month-on that day all the springs of the great deep burst forth, and
the floodgates of the heavens were opened. 12 And rain fell on the earth
forty days and forty nights.
13 On that very day Noah and his sons, Shem, Ham and Japheth, together with
his wife and the wives of his three sons, entered the ark. 14 They had with
them every wild animal according to its kind, all livestock according to
their kinds, every creature that moves along the ground according to its
kind and every bird according to its kind, everything with wings. 15 Pairs
of all creatures that have the breath of life in them came to Noah and
entered the ark. 16 The animals going in were male and female of every
living thing, as God had commanded Noah. Then the LORD shut him in.
17 For forty days the flood kept coming on the earth, and as the waters
increased they lifted the ark high above the earth. 18 The waters rose and
increased greatly on the earth, and the ark floated on the surface of the
water. 19 They rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under
the entire heavens were covered. 20 The waters rose and covered the
mountains to a depth of more than twenty feet. [, 21 Every living thing that
moved on the earth perished-birds, livestock, wild animals, all the
creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind. 22 Everything on dry
land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. 23 Every living thing
on the face of the earth was wiped out; men and animals and the creatures
that move along the ground and the birds of the air were wiped from the
earth. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark.
24 The waters flooded the earth for a hundred and fifty days.
This of course would have also killed all the vegetation on Earth!
Genesis 7:6 (New International Version)
6 Noah was "six hundred" years old when the floodwaters came on the earth.
7 And Noah and his sons and his wife and his sons' wives entered the ark to
escape the waters of the flood
Genesis 8
1 But God remembered Noah and all the wild animals and the livestock that
were with him in the ark, and he sent a wind over the earth, and the waters
receded.
3 The water receded steadily from the earth. At the end of the hundred and
fifty days the water had gone down,
4 and on the seventeenth day of the seventh month the ark came to rest on
the mountains of Ararat.
5 The waters continued to recede until the tenth month, and on the first day
of the tenth month the tops of the mountains became visible
And what did they eat until all the vegetation recovered from the flood???
Genesis 9 God's Covenant with Noah
1 Then God blessed Noah and his sons, saying to them, "Be fruitful and
increase in number and fill the earth.
2 The fear and dread of you will fall upon all the beasts of the earth and
all the birds of the air, upon every creature that moves along the ground,
and upon all the fish of the sea; they are given into your hands.
3 Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you
the green plants, I now give you everything.
4 "But you must not eat meat that has its lifeblood still in it.
5 And for your lifeblood I will surely demand an accounting. I will demand
an accounting from every animal. And from each man, too, I will demand an
accounting for the life of his fellow man.
Before man learned how to create a fire, he had no choice but to eat raw
meat!
Samson
Hebrew Shimshon, Israelite hero portrayed in an epic narrative in the Old
Testament (Judg. 13-16). He was a Nazirite (q.v.) and a legendary warrior
whose incredible exploits hint at the weight of Philistine pressure on
Israel during much of the early, tribal period of Israel in Canaan
(1200-1000).
Samson was claimed to possess extraordinary physical strength, and the moral
of his saga relates the disastrous loss of his power to the violation of his
Nazirite vow. Credited with remarkable exploits-e.g., the slaying of a lion
and moving the gates of Gaza-he first broke his religious promises by
feasting with a woman from the neighboring town of Timnah, who was also a
Philistine, one of Israel's mortal enemies. Other remarkable deeds follow;
e.g., his decimating the Philistines in a private war. On another occasion
he repulsed their assault on him at Gaza, where he had gone to visit a
harlot. He finally fell victim to his foes through love of Delilah, a woman
of the valley of Sorek, who beguiled him into revealing the secret of his
strength: his long Nazirite hair. As he slept, Delilah had his hair cut and
betrayed him. He was captured, blinded, and enslaved by the Philistines, but
in the end he was granted his revenge; through the return of his old
strength, he supposedly demolished the great Philistine temple of the god
Dagon, at Gaza, destroying his captors and himself (Judg.16:4-30).
A truly implausible tale!
God created a three level Universe - Heaven above, a flat World resting on
water. Genesis 1:6-10; 7:11; 8:2; 11:11-9; 19:24; 28:12-13; Exodus 20:4;
Numbers 16:30-33; Deuteronomy 33:17.
God created the Sun and the Moon on the fourth day but created light on the
first day! Genesis1:1-9; 14-19
It is claimed that the Eve, first woman, was created from one of Adam's
ribs.
Genesis 3:1-5 Men and women have the same number of ribs on each side of
their body? And in any case why would a god that has created the Universe
and everything in it need to tale rib from Adam to create Eve???
The Bibles claim that a talking snake talked Eve into eating the forbidden
fruit.
The Bibles claim that Adam lived 930 years, Seth 912 years, Enosh 905 years,
Kenan910 years, Mahalael 895 years, Jared 962 years, Methuselah 969 years;
Lamech 777 years, and Noah 950 years. Genesis 5:-31; 9:29
God commanded that every baby boy at age of eight days be circumcised.
At that time sterilization (of knives) was unknown and many died of
infection for which they new no cure. Why did this almighty and all caring
God create baby boys with foreskins on their penis that he then required to
be painfully and dangerously removed?
This all caring and loving God sent ten horrible plagues upon the Egyptians
Exodus 7:14-12:32 and in his loving generosity gave Israel the land of the
Canaanites and the Israelites slaughtered every person of seven nations.
Twenty one million, men women and innocent children, were slaughtered
according to the Bible. Exodus 12:1-2
This is a loving god???
According to the verse, Jesus was being tempted by Satan, for forty
days. Assuming that Jesus is God, we are required to believe that God
was tempted by Satan, who was created by God in the first place.
[NIV, Mark 1:12-13]
Again, the devil took him to a very high mountain and showed him all
the kingdoms of the world and their splendor. "All this I will give
you," he said, "if you will bow down and worship me." Jesus said to
him, "Away from me, Satan! For it is written: 'Worship the Lord your
God, and serve him only.' " [NIV, Matthew 4:8-10] If Jesus is God,
would the Devil promise him that he will give him the kingdoms of the
world when all the all kingdoms of the world were created by and already
belong to God??
======================================================
God in the Bibles classifies bats as birds when anyone with an elementary
knowledge of biology knows that bats are flying MAMMALS!
Letiviticus11:13, 19
This God can't control his temper resulting in killing thousands of people.
Numbers 11:31-35; 25:1-9
He and Moses ordered the Israelites to kill all the male and Female
Medianites who had ever had sex but to spare the young women who were
virgins and keep them for themselves to enjoy. Numbers 31:14-1
Jeremiah:16:1: The word of the LORD came also unto me, saying,
2: Thou shall not take thee a wife, neither shall thou have sons or
daughters in this place.
3: For thus saith the LORD concerning the sons and concerning the daughters
that are born in this place, and concerning their mothers that bare them,
and concerning their fathers that begat them in this land;
4: They shall die of grievous deaths; they shall not be lamented; neither
shall they be buried; but they shall be as dung upon the face of the earth:
and they shall be consumed by the sword, and by famine; and their carcasses
shall be meat for the fowls of heaven, and for the beasts of the earth.
5: For thus saith the LORD, Enter not into the house of mourning, neither go
to lament nor bemoan them: for I have taken away my peace from this people,
saith the LORD, even loving kindness and mercies.
======================================================
According to the unerring Bible, the earth is the oldest object in the
Universe. (Genesis 1:1), snakes can talk (Genesis 3:1-5), and Man had
dominion over the dinosaurs (Genesis 1:26, 28)."
Really??? The Earth did not come into existence until 10 BILLION years after
the Universe. Man came into existence MILLIONS of years AFTER the extinction
of the Dinosaurs.
======================================================
God is satisfied with his works
[Gen 1:31]
God is dissatisfied with his works.
[Gen 6:6]
God dwells in chosen temples
[2 Chron 7:12,16]
God dwells not in temples
[Acts 7:48]
======================================================
Jesus' claimed last words on the cross, 'My God, my God, why hast thou
forsaken me?' Hardly seems like the words of a god that created and
controlled the whole world and who planned his entry and exit on earth.
More obvious nonsense!
======================================================
Additional Bible nonsense too voluminous to quote fully;
Mt.4:8: Gen. 1:6; Deut. 30.4; Job. 9:6,22:13, 26:11; PSA 75.3, 103.12;
1 Sam 2.8; Isa. 13.5, 40.21-22; Dan 4.10-11; Re. 7.1, 20.8; Psa 93:1, 96:10,
105.5Job. 22.14; Rev. 6.14; Acts 10:11; Rev. 6:13, 8:14; Mat. 2:9; Gen 1:16;
Lev.19.27, 11.7,10-12: Mat. 5:17-19; Luke 16:17; Lev. 19.19; Luke 16:1-9;
Amos 3:6; Isa. 45:7; Lev, 18.22, 20.13; Deut. 13.6; Judges 14.20; 1 Sam
16:21-23, 18.1-3; Sam 1:26, 13:3, 15:37, 16:16-17: Mat. 2:13-15; Luke 2:1-7,
21; Gen. 11.6, 18:21, 27:33; Exod. 9:14, 12:12; Num 33.4; Deut. 3.23; Exod.
18:11; Eccl. 9.5-6, 9:10; Job 7.9-10, 13:28, 14:1-2, 14:1-2, 10-12, 21; Prov
2:18-19; Eccl. 10:17, 17:27, 28, 30, 19.3, 44:9; wisdom 2:1-5
This is just a sampling of ridiculous Bible tales. The Bibles are obviously
a mixture of fiction, fables, folklore and pure nonsense.
And these Bibles were dictated by God??? Then this God must be a demented
idiot.
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
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| Title: Re: BIBLE AUTHENTICITY |
06 Mar 2006 04:17:12 AM |
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"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:bkMOf.5291$c76.5075@bignews4.bellsouth.net...
3-04-06
The foundations of all Christian religions are the Bibles. The Bibles are
the literature of pure 'faith', not of scientific observation, evidence
or historical fact or demonstration.
The Bibles are a foundation of quicksand. There are NO ORIGINALS in
existence. Why would God not protect the originals? What are available are
copies of copies by unknown men of questionable veracity biased by, and
dependent on, their membership in the clergy. The originals rotted and
disappeared thousands of years ago. The Bibles were hand written and
recopied more than a thousand years before the invention of the printing
press. And of course we not only do not know what was in the originals but
they were also written and altered by errant biased men motivated to
impress their flock.
According to Bart Ehrman, professor and Chair of the Dept. of Religious
Studies at the University of North Carolina, The Bible is not the
error-free word of any god. There are some 5,700 ancient Greek manuscripts
that are the basis of the modern versions of the New Testament, and
scholars have uncovered more thousands of differences in those texts.
Much of the Bible are recollections of witnesses etc. there is no
requirement for recollections to be uniform. In fact were all recollections
identical, then there would be reason to believe them to be copies of one
original. Hence "thousands of differences" are not only to be expected, but
are essential to show independent authors.
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| User: "Rockett Crawford" |
|
| Title: Re: BIBLE AUTHENTICITY |
06 Mar 2006 07:30:59 AM |
|
|
"Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in message
news:440c21f0$0$27800$6d36acad@titian.nntpserver.com...
Much of the Bible are recollections of witnesses etc. there is no
requirement for recollections to be uniform. In fact were all
recollections identical, then there would be reason to believe them to be
copies of one original. Hence "thousands of differences" are not only to
be expected, but are essential to show independent authors.
Actually I guess you are aware that the Gospels of Matthew and Luke were
largely copied from Mark and an unknown Gospel refered to by scholars as
"Q?"
Also supposed eyewitnesses accounts need not be identical, but they
shouldn't contradict each other as they do frequently in the Bible.
Capella #5
Jonah's Underwater Stomach Vacation
http://www.goatstar.org/jonahs-underwater-stomach-vacation/
.
|
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| User: "Amangi Machque" |
|
| Title: Re: BIBLE AUTHENTICITY |
06 Mar 2006 06:17:45 AM |
|
|
"Pastor Frank" wrote
: Much of the Bible are recollections of witnesses etc. there is no
: requirement for recollections to be uniform. In fact were all
recollections
: identical, then there would be reason to believe them to be copies of one
: original. Hence "thousands of differences" are not only to be expected,
but
: are essential to show independent authors.
How do you reconcile "thousands of differences" with inerrancy?
--
Machque
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past, Wisdom is of the
future." Lumbee
"The one who tells the stories rules the world." Hopi
"Sing your death song and die like a hero going home." Shawnee
.
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
|
| Title: Re: BIBLE AUTHENTICITY |
06 Mar 2006 03:03:42 PM |
|
|
"Amangi Machque" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> wrote in message
news:M42dnfqToLP3tZHZRVn-pQ@comcast.com...
"Pastor Frank" wrote
:
: Much of the Bible are recollections of witnesses etc. there is no
: requirement for recollections to be uniform. In fact were all
recollections
: identical, then there would be reason to believe them to be copies of
one
: original. Hence "thousands of differences" are not only to be expected,
: but are essential to show independent authors.
How do you reconcile "thousands of differences" with inerrancy?
Inerrancy concerns the central theme, the spiritual content of
scripture, not whether all i-s are dotted and all t-s are crossed.
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|
|
|
| User: "Rockett Crawford" |
|
| Title: Re: BIBLE AUTHENTICITY |
06 Mar 2006 06:17:47 PM |
|
|
"Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in message
news:440ccf5d$0$944$6d36acad@titian.nntpserver.com...
"Amangi Machque" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> wrote in message
news:M42dnfqToLP3tZHZRVn-pQ@comcast.com...
"Pastor Frank" wrote
:
: Much of the Bible are recollections of witnesses etc. there is no
: requirement for recollections to be uniform. In fact were all
recollections
: identical, then there would be reason to believe them to be copies of
one
: original. Hence "thousands of differences" are not only to be expected,
: but are essential to show independent authors.
How do you reconcile "thousands of differences" with inerrancy?
Inerrancy concerns the central theme, the spiritual content of
scripture, not whether all i-s are dotted and all t-s are crossed.
It's almost comical to read what James says about works and faith and how
that completely contradicts Paul's version of Christianity:
From: http://www.goatstar.org/bible-contradictions/ :
James: (James 2:24 NRSV) You see that a person is justified by works and not
by faith alone.
Paul: (Gal 2:16 NRSV) yet we know that a person is justified not by the
works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ.
James: (James 2:17 NRSV) So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.
Paul: (Titus 3:5 NRSV) he saved us, not because of any works of
righteousness that we had done,
James: (James 2:20 NRSV) Do you want to be shown, you senseless person, that
faith apart from works is barren?
Paul: (Rom 3:28 NRSV) For we hold that a person is justified by faith apart
from works prescribed by the law.
James: (James 2:14 NRSV) What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if you
say you have faith but do not have works? Can faith save you?
Paul: (Rom 4:5 NRSV) But to one who without works trusts him who justifies
the ungodly, such faith is reckoned as righteousness.
Capella #5
Jonah's Underwater Stomach Vacation
http://www.goatstar.org/jonahs-underwater-stomach-vacation/
.
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| User: "Bill" |
|
| Title: Re: BIBLE AUTHENTICITY |
06 Mar 2006 07:25:30 PM |
|
|
"Rockett Crawford" <capella@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:120pk9e7uqd3iaf@corp.supernews.com...
"Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in message
news:440ccf5d$0$944$6d36acad@titian.nntpserver.com...
"Amangi Machque" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> wrote in message
news:M42dnfqToLP3tZHZRVn-pQ@comcast.com...
"Pastor Frank" wrote
:
: Much of the Bible are recollections of witnesses etc. there is no
: requirement for recollections to be uniform. In fact were all
recollections
: identical, then there would be reason to believe them to be copies of
one
: original. Hence "thousands of differences" are not only to be
expected,
: but are essential to show independent authors.
How do you reconcile "thousands of differences" with inerrancy?
Inerrancy concerns the central theme, the spiritual content of
scripture, not whether all i-s are dotted and all t-s are crossed.
It's almost comical to read what James says about works and faith and how
that completely contradicts Paul's version of Christianity:
From: http://www.goatstar.org/bible-contradictions/ :
James: (James 2:24 NRSV) You see that a person is justified by works and
not by faith alone.
Paul: (Gal 2:16 NRSV) yet we know that a person is justified not by the
works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ.
James: (James 2:17 NRSV) So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.
Paul: (Titus 3:5 NRSV) he saved us, not because of any works of
righteousness that we had done, .
James: (James 2:20 NRSV) Do you want to be shown, you senseless person,
that faith apart from works is barren?
Paul: (Rom 3:28 NRSV) For we hold that a person is justified by faith
apart from works prescribed by the law.
James: (James 2:14 NRSV) What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if you
say you have faith but do not have works? Can faith save you?
Paul: (Rom 4:5 NRSV) But to one who without works trusts him who justifies
the ungodly, such faith is reckoned as righteousness.
Capella #5
Jonah's Underwater Stomach Vacation
http://www.goatstar.org/jonahs-underwater-stomach-vacation/
The Bible thumpers ignor and gloss over these thousands of inconsistencies
and contradictions.
This is why there are hundreds of 'different' Christian religions. And there
is little evidence that
'any' of them are true.
.
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| User: "Rockett Crawford" |
|
| Title: Re: BIBLE AUTHENTICITY |
06 Mar 2006 08:22:13 PM |
|
|
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:lf5Pf.41782$Ly6.34018@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
"Rockett Crawford" <capella@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:120pk9e7uqd3iaf@corp.supernews.com...
It's almost comical to read what James says about works and faith and how
that completely contradicts Paul's version of Christianity:
From: http://www.goatstar.org/bible-contradictions/ :
James: (James 2:24 NRSV) You see that a person is justified by works and
not by faith alone.
Paul: (Gal 2:16 NRSV) yet we know that a person is justified not by the
works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ.
James: (James 2:17 NRSV) So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.
Paul: (Titus 3:5 NRSV) he saved us, not because of any works of
righteousness that we had done, .
James: (James 2:20 NRSV) Do you want to be shown, you senseless person,
that faith apart from works is barren?
Paul: (Rom 3:28 NRSV) For we hold that a person is justified by faith
apart from works prescribed by the law.
James: (James 2:14 NRSV) What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if you
say you have faith but do not have works? Can faith save you?
Paul: (Rom 4:5 NRSV) But to one who without works trusts him who
justifies the ungodly, such faith is reckoned as righteousness.
Capella #5
Jonah's Underwater Stomach Vacation
http://www.goatstar.org/jonahs-underwater-stomach-vacation/
The Bible thumpers ignor and gloss over these thousands of inconsistencies
and contradictions.
This is why there are hundreds of 'different' Christian religions. And
there is little evidence that
'any' of them are true.
That's true. The "sinner's prayer" for example, the point of salvation for
Baptist Christians is nowhere to be found in the Bible.
One would think that the very recitation that prevents someone from going to
hell, might be in the Bible somewhere amongst thousands of pages, but it's
MIA.
So is the Trinity. Nowhere to be found in the Bible (except a mistranslation
in the KJ only). The Trinity was a concept that the Roman Catholic Church
came up with hundreds of years after Jesus.
Capella #5
Jonah's Underwater Stomach Vacation
http://www.goatstar.org/jonahs-underwater-stomach-vacation/
.
|
|
|
| User: "One In Christ" |
|
| Title: Re: BIBLE AUTHENTICITY |
09 Mar 2006 08:00:32 AM |
|
|
On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 20:22:13 -0600, "Rockett Crawford"
<capella@airmail.net> wrote:
"Bill" <wmech@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:lf5Pf.41782$Ly6.34018@bignews5.bellsouth.net...
"Rockett Crawford" <capella@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:120pk9e7uqd3iaf@corp.supernews.com...
It's almost comical to read what James says about works and faith and how
that completely contradicts Paul's version of Christianity:
From: http://www.goatstar.org/bible-contradictions/ :
James: (James 2:24 NRSV) You see that a person is justified by works and
not by faith alone.
Paul: (Gal 2:16 NRSV) yet we know that a person is justified not by the
works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ.
James: (James 2:17 NRSV) So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.
Paul: (Titus 3:5 NRSV) he saved us, not because of any works of
righteousness that we had done, .
James: (James 2:20 NRSV) Do you want to be shown, you senseless person,
that faith apart from works is barren?
Paul: (Rom 3:28 NRSV) For we hold that a person is justified by faith
apart from works prescribed by the law.
James: (James 2:14 NRSV) What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if you
say you have faith but do not have works? Can faith save you?
Paul: (Rom 4:5 NRSV) But to one who without works trusts him who
justifies the ungodly, such faith is reckoned as righteousness.
Capella #5
Jonah's Underwater Stomach Vacation
http://www.goatstar.org/jonahs-underwater-stomach-vacation/
The Bible thumpers ignor and gloss over these thousands of inconsistencies
and contradictions.
This is why there are hundreds of 'different' Christian religions. And
there is little evidence that
'any' of them are true.
That's true. The "sinner's prayer" for example, the point of salvation for
Baptist Christians is nowhere to be found in the Bible.
One would think that the very recitation that prevents someone from going to
hell, might be in the Bible somewhere amongst thousands of pages, but it's
MIA.
So is the Trinity. Nowhere to be found in the Bible (except a mistranslation
in the KJ only). The Trinity was a concept that the Roman Catholic Church
came up with hundreds of years after Jesus.
Capella #5
Jonah's Underwater Stomach Vacation
http://www.goatstar.org/jonahs-underwater-stomach-vacation/
Joh 6:26 Jesus answered them and said, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Ye seek me, not because ye saw the miracles, but because ye did eat of the loaves, and were filled.
Joh 6:27 Labor not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat
which endureth unto everlasting life, which the Son of man shall give
unto you: for him hath God the Father sealed.
Joh 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might
work the works of God?
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God,
that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
Joh 6:30 They said therefore unto him, What sign showest thou then,
that we may see, and believe thee? what dost thou work?
Joh 6:31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert; as it is written,
He gave them bread from heaven to eat.
Joh 6:32 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you,
Moses gave you not that bread from heaven; but my Father giveth you
the true bread from heaven.
Joh 6:33 For the bread of God is he which cometh down from heaven,
and giveth life unto the world.
Joh 6:34 Then said they unto him, Lord, evermore give us this bread.
Joh 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that
cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall
never thirst.
Joh 6:36 But I said unto you, That ye also have seen me, and believe
not.
Joh 6:37 All that the Father giveth me shall come to me; and him that
cometh to me I will in no wise cast out.
The work James was talking about is in two verses.
Joh 6:28 Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might
work the works of God?
Joh 6:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God,
that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.
The work of God is Faith. But you try to find fault in Gods Word YOU
just condemn yourself to a life of torment when you die and leave this
world. God does not condemn you, you do this to yourself because you
do not believe the Word of God he is real. But you will never know or
understand this or his word (Bible) un till you accept Jesus. You try
to find fault with the Bible because you do not want to give up the
things of the world you want to have your Good times as you see them
drink, lust, riches. But these are temporal some day you will die.
Then what nothing? that's just what the devil wants you to think he's
already got you and unless you change the devil will keep you forever.
The work of Faith is telling people about Jesus, Loving others as you
love yourself and all the other fruits of the Spirit.
.
|
|
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| User: "Rockett Crawford" |
|
| Title: Re: BIBLE AUTHENTICITY |
10 Mar 2006 10:32:08 AM |
|
|
"One In Christ" <wwwwtd@wwwcd.com> wrote in message
news:etc012tv72qdthm0tui3rt24snsv5dlv39@4ax.com...
The work of God is Faith. But you try to find fault in Gods Word YOU
just condemn yourself to a life of torment when you die and leave this
world.
I'm not trying to find fault in the Bible. I've just noticed such
inconsistencies over the years.
God does not condemn you, you do this to yourself because you
do not believe the Word of God he is real. But you will never know or
understand this or his word (Bible) un till you accept Jesus.
Actually I have accepted Jesus Christ as my savior. I have said and meant
the "sinner's prayer."
I can easily recite the sinner's prayer to you if you like and explain what
each section means if you are skeptical? I've actually led many other people
in the prayer.
You try
to find fault with the Bible because you do not want to give up the
things of the world you want to have your Good times as you see them
drink, lust, riches. But these are temporal some day you will die.
Actually I came from the other direction. I gave up Christianity.
Then what nothing? that's just what the devil wants you to think he's
already got you and unless you change the devil will keep you forever.
The work of Faith is telling people about Jesus, Loving others as you
love yourself and all the other fruits of the Spirit.
Thanks for your comments. I know exactly where you are coming from because I
used to be involved in ministries.
take care,
Capella
Animal Cruise - The Love Ark
http://www.goatstar.org/animal-cruise-%e2%80%93-the-love-ark
.
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| User: "wbarwell" |
|
| Title: Re: BIBLE AUTHENTICITY |
06 Mar 2006 08:06:08 PM |
|
|
Rockett Crawford wrote:
"Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in message
news:440ccf5d$0$944$6d36acad@titian.nntpserver.com...
"Amangi Machque" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> wrote in message
news:M42dnfqToLP3tZHZRVn-pQ@comcast.com...
"Pastor Frank" wrote
:
: Much of the Bible are recollections of witnesses etc. there is no
: requirement for recollections to be uniform. In fact were all
recollections
: identical, then there would be reason to believe them to be copies of
one
: original. Hence "thousands of differences" are not only to be
: expected, but are essential to show independent authors.
How do you reconcile "thousands of differences" with inerrancy?
Inerrancy concerns the central theme, the spiritual content of
scripture, not whether all i-s are dotted and all t-s are crossed.
It's almost comical to read what James says about works and faith and how
that completely contradicts Paul's version of Christianity:
From: http://www.goatstar.org/bible-contradictions/ :
James: (James 2:24 NRSV) You see that a person is justified by works and
not by faith alone.
Paul: (Gal 2:16 NRSV) yet we know that a person is justified not by the
works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ.
James: (James 2:17 NRSV) So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead.
Paul: (Titus 3:5 NRSV) he saved us, not because of any works of
righteousness that we had done,
James: (James 2:20 NRSV) Do you want to be shown, you senseless person,
that faith apart from works is barren?
Paul: (Rom 3:28 NRSV) For we hold that a person is justified by faith
apart from works prescribed by the law.
James: (James 2:14 NRSV) What good is it, my brothers and sisters, if you
say you have faith but do not have works? Can faith save you?
Paul: (Rom 4:5 NRSV) But to one who without works trusts him who justifies
the ungodly, such faith is reckoned as righteousness.
Matthew 25, do works or burn.
--
An Inuit hunter asked the local missionary priest: "If I did not know about
God and sin, would I go to hell?" "No," said the priest, "not if you did
not know." "Then why," asked the Inuit earnestly, "did you tell me?"
-Annie Dillard, Pilgrim at Tinker Creek
Cheerful Charlie
.
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| User: "Amangi Machque" |
|
| Title: Re: BIBLE AUTHENTICITY |
06 Mar 2006 07:19:52 PM |
|
|
"Pastor Frank" wrote
: "Amangi Machque" wrote
: > "Pastor Frank" wrote
: > :
: > : Much of the Bible are recollections of witnesses etc. there is no
: > : requirement for recollections to be uniform. In fact were all
: > recollections
: > : identical, then there would be reason to believe them to be copies of
: > one
: > : original. Hence "thousands of differences" are not only to be
expected,
: > : but are essential to show independent authors.
: >
: > How do you reconcile "thousands of differences" with inerrancy?
: >
: Inerrancy concerns the central theme, the spiritual content of
: scripture, not whether all i-s are dotted and all t-s are crossed.
Oh look, Frankie boy is trying to be slick. I wasn't talking about dotting
"i"s or crossing "t"s. I was talking about the different recollections of
your so-called witnesses. Also, Frankie boy, an error is an error. Either
the Bible is inerrant or it is not. There is no middle ground.
--
Machque
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past, Wisdom is of the
future." Lumbee
"The one who tells the stories rules the world." Hopi
"Sing your death song and die like a hero going home." Shawnee
.
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
|
| Title: Re: BIBLE AUTHENTICITY |
07 Mar 2006 03:43:17 AM |
|
|
"Amangi Machque" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> wrote in message
news:jMGdne0pVbQqQpHZRVn-jQ@comcast.com...
"Pastor Frank" wrote
: "Amangi Machque" wrote
: > "Pastor Frank" wrote
: > :
: > : Much of the Bible are recollections of witnesses etc. there is no
: > : requirement for recollections to be uniform. In fact were all
: > recollections
: > : identical, then there would be reason to believe them to be copies
of
: > one
: > : original. Hence "thousands of differences" are not only to be
expected,
: > : but are essential to show independent authors.
: >
: > How do you reconcile "thousands of differences" with inerrancy?
: >
: Inerrancy concerns the central theme, the spiritual content of
: scripture, not whether all i-s are dotted and all t-s are crossed.
Oh look, Frankie boy is trying to be slick. I wasn't talking about dotting
"i"s or crossing "t"s. I was talking about the different recollections of
your so-called witnesses. Also, Frankie boy, an error is an error. Either
the Bible is inerrant or it is not. There is no middle ground.
The Bible is inerrant in its spiritual content. All other differences
are irrelevant.
*** Free account sponsored by SecureIX.com ***
*** Encrypt your Internet usage with a free VPN account from http://www.SecureIX.com ***
.
|
|
|
| User: "Amangi Machque" |
|
| Title: Re: BIBLE AUTHENTICITY |
07 Mar 2006 05:23:10 AM |
|
|
"Pastor Frank" wrote
: "Amangi Machque" wrote
: > "Pastor Frank" wrote
: > : "Amangi Machque" wrote
: > : > "Pastor Frank" wrote
: > : > :
: > : > : Much of the Bible are recollections of witnesses etc. there is
no
: > : > : requirement for recollections to be uniform. In fact were all
: > : > recollections
: > : > : identical, then there would be reason to believe them to be
copies
: > of
: > : > one
: > : > : original. Hence "thousands of differences" are not only to be
: > expected,
: > : > : but are essential to show independent authors.
: > : >
: > : > How do you reconcile "thousands of differences" with inerrancy?
: > : >
: > : Inerrancy concerns the central theme, the spiritual content of
: > : scripture, not whether all i-s are dotted and all t-s are crossed.
: >
: > Oh look, Frankie boy is trying to be slick. I wasn't talking about
dotting
: > "i"s or crossing "t"s. I was talking about the different recollections
of
: > your so-called witnesses. Also, Frankie boy, an error is an error.
Either
: > the Bible is inerrant or it is not. There is no middle ground.
: >
: The Bible is inerrant in its spiritual content. All other differences
: are irrelevant.
Either it is inerrant or it is not Frankie boy.
--
Machque
"Seek wisdom, not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past, Wisdom is of the
future." Lumbee
"The one who tells the stories rules the world." Hopi
"Sing your death song and die like a hero going home." Shawnee
.
|
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| User: "Libertarius" |
|
| Title: Re: BIBLE AUTHENTICITY |
07 Mar 2006 05:21:21 PM |
|
|
Amangi Machque wrote:
"Pastor Frank" wrote
: "Amangi Machque" wrote
: > "Pastor Frank" wrote
: > : "Amangi Machque" wrote
: > : > "Pastor Frank" wrote
: > : > :
: > : > : Much of the Bible are recollections of witnesses etc. there is
no
: > : > : requirement for recollections to be uniform. In fact were all
: > : > recollections
: > : > : identical, then there would be reason to believe them to be
copies
: > of
: > : > one
: > : > : original. Hence "thousands of differences" are not only to be
: > expected,
: > : > : but are essential to show independent authors.
: > : >
: > : > How do you reconcile "thousands of differences" with inerrancy?
: > : >
: > : Inerrancy concerns the central theme, the spiritual content of
: > : scripture, not whether all i-s are dotted and all t-s are crossed.
: >
: > Oh look, Frankie boy is trying to be slick. I wasn't talking about
dotting
: > "i"s or crossing "t"s. I was talking about the different recollections
of
: > your so-called witnesses. Also, Frankie boy, an error is an error.
Either
: > the Bible is inerrant or it is not. There is no middle ground.
: >
: The Bible is inerrant in its spiritual content. All other differences
: are irrelevant.
Either it is inerrant or it is not Frankie boy.
===>Don't you get it?
It is his select verses and weir interpretations that he considers
"inerrant" declaring that "All other differences are irrelevant". -- L.
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.
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| User: "Virgil" |
|
| Title: Re: BIBLE AUTHENTICITY |
07 Mar 2006 02:43:03 PM |
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In article <440d6bed$0$23031$6d36acad@titian.nntpserver.com>,
"Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote:
"Amangi Machque" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> wrote in message
news:jMGdne0pVbQqQpHZRVn-jQ@comcast.com...
"Pastor Frank" wrote
: "Amangi Machque" wrote
: > "Pastor Frank" wrote
: > :
: > : Much of the Bible are recollections of witnesses etc. there is no
: > : requirement for recollections to be uniform. In fact were all
: > recollections
: > : identical, then there would be reason to believe them to be copies
of
: > one
: > : original. Hence "thousands of differences" are not only to be
expected,
: > : but are essential to show independent authors.
: >
: > How do you reconcile "thousands of differences" with inerrancy?
: >
: Inerrancy concerns the central theme, the spiritual content of
: scripture, not whether all i-s are dotted and all t-s are crossed.
Oh look, Frankie boy is trying to be slick. I wasn't talking about dotting
"i"s or crossing "t"s. I was talking about the different recollections of
your so-called witnesses. Also, Frankie boy, an error is an error. Either
the Bible is inerrant or it is not. There is no middle ground.
The Bible is inerrant in its spiritual content. All other differences
are irrelevant.
In other words, its errors are not really errors because its heart us
pure!
Balderdash! To invoke a different, though similar religion.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: BIBLE AUTHENTICITY |
07 Mar 2006 05:18:58 PM |
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Pastor Frank wrote:
"Amangi Machque" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> wrote in message
news:jMGdne0pVbQqQpHZRVn-jQ@comcast.com...
"Pastor Frank" wrote
: "Amangi Machque" wrote
: > "Pastor Frank" wrote
: > :
: > : Much of the Bible are recollections of witnesses etc. there is no
: > : requirement for recollections to be uniform. In fact were all
: > recollections
: > : identical, then there would be reason to believe them to be copies
of
: > one
: > : original. Hence "thousands of differences" are not only to be
expected,
: > : but are essential to show independent authors.
: >
: > How do you reconcile "thousands of differences" with inerrancy?
: >
: Inerrancy concerns the central theme, the spiritual content of
: scripture, not whether all i-s are dotted and all t-s are crossed.
Oh look, Frankie boy is trying to be slick. I wasn't talking about dotting
"i"s or crossing "t"s. I was talking about the different recollections of
your so-called witnesses. Also, Frankie boy, an error is an error. Either
the Bible is inerrant or it is not. There is no middle ground.
The Bible is inerrant in its spiritual content. All other differences
are irrelevant.
===>That is such a blatant cop-out, Sheeplover!
Whatever you wish to approve of, you consider "spiritual"
so you can escape from the reality of obvious discrepancies. -- L.
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| User: "AcesLucky" |
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| Title: Re: BIBLE AUTHENTICITY |
08 Mar 2006 05:04:08 AM |
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Pastor Frank wrote:
"Amangi Machque" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> wrote in message
news:jMGdne0pVbQqQpHZRVn-jQ@comcast.com...
"Pastor Frank" wrote
: "Amangi Machque" wrote
: > "Pastor Frank" wrote
: > :
: > : Much of the Bible are recollections of witnesses etc. there is no
: > : requirement for recollections to be uniform. In fact were all
: > recollections
: > : identical, then there would be reason to believe them to be copies
of
: > one
: > : original. Hence "thousands of differences" are not only to be
expected,
: > : but are essential to show independent authors.
: >
: > How do you reconcile "thousands of differences" with inerrancy?
: >
: Inerrancy concerns the central theme, the spiritual content of
: scripture, not whether all i-s are dotted and all t-s are crossed.
Oh look, Frankie boy is trying to be slick. I wasn't talking about dotting
"i"s or crossing "t"s. I was talking about the different recollections of
your so-called witnesses. Also, Frankie boy, an error is an error. Either
the Bible is inerrant or it is not. There is no middle ground.
The Bible is inerrant in its spiritual content. All other differences
are irrelevant.
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The bible errs even in its spiritual content.
God kills, and then Commands that killing is sin.
Etc.., etc...., etc....
What other differences are left?
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| User: "Jacques Pelletier" |
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| Title: Re: BIBLE AUTHENTICITY |
06 Mar 2006 11:26:33 PM |
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On Tue, 07 Mar 2006 05:03:42 +0800, Pastor Frank wrote:
"Amangi Machque" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> wrote in message
news:M42dnfqToLP3tZHZRVn-pQ@comcast.com...
"Pastor Frank" wrote
:
: Much of the Bible are recollections of witnesses etc. there is no
: requirement for recollections to be uniform. In fact were all
recollections
: identical, then there would be reason to believe them to be copies of
one
: original. Hence "thousands of differences" are not only to be
: expected, but are essential to show independent authors.
How do you reconcile "thousands of differences" with inerrancy?
Inerrancy concerns the central theme, the spiritual content of
scripture, not whether all i-s are dotted and all t-s are crossed.
Here is one of the many difficulties of the bible, concerning the
spiritual content:
In this verse, Paul says that jews and greek are aware of god through
creation.
" 20 For the invisible things of him since the creation of the world are
clearly seen, being perceived through the things that are made, even his
everlasting power and divinity; that they may be without excuse.
21 Because, knowing God, they didn’t glorify him as God, neither gave
thanks, but became vain in their reasoning, and their senseless heart
was darkened."
Romans 1:20-21
And these verses say: no one seeks after god, jews or greeks (or others).
" 9 What then? Are we better than they? No, in no way. For we previously
charged both Jews and Greeks, that they are all under sin. 10 As it is
written,
“There is no one righteous.
No, not one.
11 There is no one who understands.
There is no one who seeks after God.
12 They have all turned aside.
They have together become unprofitable. There is no one who does good, No,
not, so much as one.”
13 “Their throat is an open tomb.
With their tongues they have used deceit.”
“The poison of vipers is under their lips;”
14 “Whose mouth is full of cursing and bitterness.”
15 “Their feet are swift to shed blood. 16 Destruction and misery are
in their ways. 17 The way of peace, they haven’t known.”
18 “There is no fear of God before their eyes.”
"
Romans 3:9-18
Now this would contradicts this verse which says greeks of Athens are
religious;
" 22 Paul stood in the middle of the Areopagus, and said, “You men
of Athens, I perceive that you are very religious in all things. 23 For
as I passed along, and observed the objects of your worship, I found
also an altar with this inscription: ‘TO AN UNKNOWN GOD.’ What
therefore you worship in ignorance, this I announce to you. "
Acts 17:22-23
and this verse which talk about men's spiritual aspirations. " 10 I have
seen the burden which God has given to the sons of men to be
afflicted with.
11 He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set
eternity in their hearts, yet so that man can’t find out the work that
God has done from the beginning even to the end."
Ecclesiastes 3:10-11
Even the OT has many descriptions of peoples believing in idols or other
gods, so they're religious in a relative way.
So, "no one who does good; the way of peace, they haven’t known; no fear
of God" seems to have no basis in reality.
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JP
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: BIBLE AUTHENTICITY |
06 Mar 2006 12:23:46 PM |
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Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Pastor Frank
(PF@christfirst.edu) made the light shine upon us with this:
Much of the Bible are recollections of witnesses etc.
*****. All of the bible was written well enough after the "fact" to
be considered as nothing but hearsay. Jesus didn't write a word of it,
nor did anyone who would have witnessed Jesus and would have been old
enough to know what was happening. Beside that fact, there are other
considerations. The jesus myth looks shockingly similar to the pagan
god-man-savior-messiah mythology that predated Christianity by thousands
of years. Jesus is but a new-and-improved version of a legend handed
down over the ages. Also, we must consider the historical fact that
Emperor Constantine made a *lot* of changes in the scripture to make it
conform to his personal beliefs, which he wanted to impose on all of his
subjects. This is what became the Roman Catholic Church. Unless you
think time travels in reverse, the witnesses in the bible are merely
fictional characters, like jeebus and his 12 (or 11 or 13) merry men.
there is no
requirement for recollections to be uniform.
Not if you are already brainwashed into belief, no. If you think you
have something as big to gain as eternal life, you'll believe anything
they say. Even if what they say is X=Y and X=Y-1, or 1+1+1=1.
In fact were all
recollections identical, then there would be reason to believe them
to be copies of one original. Hence "thousands of differences" are not
only to be expected, but are essential to show independent authors.
They certainly fooled you, didn't they Frank?
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
Atheists get to live their lives in accordance with their own desires. I
call that a win, compared to the collossal waste of time being an active
Christian. Atheist: win. Christian: lose. "No win" never comes into
play, because there are no gods.
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
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| Title: Re: BIBLE AUTHENTICITY |
06 Mar 2006 03:34:02 PM |
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"Uncle Vic" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns977E699553877vicman@216.196.97.136...
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Pastor Frank
(PF@christfirst.edu) made the light shine upon us with this:
Much of the Bible are recollections of witnesses etc.
*****. All of the bible was written well enough after the "fact" to
be considered as nothing but hearsay. Jesus didn't write a word of it,
nor did anyone who would have witnessed Jesus and would have been old
enough to know what was happening. Beside that fact, there are other
considerations. The jesus myth looks shockingly similar to the pagan
god-man-savior-messiah mythology that predated Christianity by thousands
of years. Jesus is but a new-and-improved version of a legend handed
down over the ages. Also, we must consider the historical fact that
Emperor Constantine made a *lot* of changes in the scripture to make it
conform to his personal beliefs, which he wanted to impose on all of his
subjects. This is what became the Roman Catholic Church. Unless you
think time travels in reverse, the witnesses in the bible are merely
fictional characters, like jeebus and his 12 (or 11 or 13) merry men.
Whatever. You haven't shown lack of validity. You can relish your
cynical view if you want to, but you will earn nothing but paranoia from it
and despair. We choose to believe because we think the NT is a viable and
most inspiring philosophy of life.
Most atheists always know what they hate, and seem reluctant to tell
anyone what they love, fearing justifiably so, on meeting someone like
themselves, who is going to trash what they love and flame them for being so
stupid. Jesus is about the opposite of all that. See below
Pastor Frank
Jesus in Jn:13:34: A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one
another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
Jesus in Jn:13:35: By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples,
if ye have love one to another.
Jesus in Jn:15:12-13: This is my commandment: That ye love one another,
as I have loved you. Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down
his life for his friends.
Jesus in John 14:15 "If you love me, you will obey what I command...
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| User: "Melchizedek" |
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| Title: Re: BIBLE AUTHENTICITY |
14 Mar 2006 08:35:15 AM |
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"Pastor Frank" <PF@christfirst.edu> wrote in message
news:440ccf68$0$944$6d36acad@titian.nntpserver.com...
"Uncle Vic" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns977E699553877vicman@216.196.97.136...
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Pastor Frank
(PF@christfirst.edu) made the light shine upon us with this:
Much of the Bible are recollections of witnesses etc.
All of the bible was written well ...
A Lulu.Com Success
http://lulu.com/bibleweb/
All were published during a CCBI (Calvary Chapel Bible Institute)
program, and all these publications received an A+, and also have opened
doors for further serventhood. More are on the way!
Thank You, Lulu.com for providing a service that has made my work
contributions available and allowed me to make finished books out of them.
http://bibleweb.info/
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: BIBLE AUTHENTICITY |
06 Mar 2006 06:19:28 PM |
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Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Pastor Frank
(PF@christfirst.edu) made the light shine upon us with this:
"Uncle Vic" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns977E699553877vicman@216.196.97.136...
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Pastor Frank
(PF@christfirst.edu) made the light shine upon us with this:
Much of the Bible are recollections of witnesses etc.
*****. All of the bible was written well enough after the "fact"
to be considered as nothing but hearsay. Jesus didn't write a word
of it, nor did anyone who would have witnessed Jesus and would have
been old enough to know what was happening. Beside that fact, there
are other considerations. The jesus myth looks shockingly similar to
the pagan god-man-savior-messiah mythology that predated Christianity
by thousands of years. Jesus is but a new-and-improved version of a
legend handed down over the ages. Also, we must consider the
historical fact that Emperor Constantine made a *lot* of changes in
the scripture to make it conform to his personal beliefs, which he
wanted to impose on all of his subjects. This is what became the
Roman Catholic Church. Unless you think time travels in reverse, the
witnesses in the bible are merely fictional characters, like jeebus
and his 12 (or 11 or 13) merry men.
Whatever. You haven't shown lack of validity. You can relish your
cynical view if you want to, but you will earn nothing but paranoia
from it and despair.
Projecting now Frank? Atheists have faced death, and recognize it for
what it is. We've learned not to fear it, put it on the back burner, and
enjoy today. Death is what Christianity is all about, it's what you
focus your lives on. And you think we're paranoid?
We choose to believe because we think the NT is a
viable and most inspiring philosophy of life.
Death. You misspelled death.
Most atheists always know what they hate, and seem reluctant to
tell
anyone what they love, fearing justifiably so, on meeting someone like
themselves, who is going to trash what they love and flame them for
being so stupid.
Liar.
Jesus is about the opposite of all that. See below
http://www.jesusneverexisted.com
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
Atheists get to live their lives in accordance with their own desires. I
call that a win, compared to the collossal waste of time being an active
Christian. Atheist: win. Christian: lose. "No win" never comes into
play, because there are no gods.
.
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
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| Title: Re: BIBLE AUTHENTICITY |
07 Mar 2006 02:54:07 AM |
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"Uncle Vic" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns977EA5E388F1vicman@216.196.97.136...
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Pastor Frank
(PF@christfirst.edu) made the light shine upon us with this:
"Uncle Vic" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns977E699553877vicman@216.196.97.136...
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Pastor Frank
(PF@christfirst.edu) made the light shine upon us with this:
Much of the Bible are recollections of witnesses etc.
*****. All of the bible was written well enough after the "fact"
to be considered as nothing but hearsay. Jesus didn't write a word
of it, nor did anyone who would have witnessed Jesus and would have
been old enough to know what was happening. Beside that fact, there
are other considerations. The jesus myth looks shockingly similar to
the pagan god-man-savior-messiah mythology that predated Christianity
by thousands of years. Jesus is but a new-and-improved version of a
legend handed down over the ages. Also, we must consider the
historical fact that Emperor Constantine made a *lot* of changes in
the scripture to make it conform to his personal beliefs, which he
wanted to impose on all of his subjects. This is what became the
Roman Catholic Church. Unless you think time travels in reverse, the
witnesses in the bible are merely fictional characters, like jeebus
and his 12 (or 11 or 13) merry men.
Whatever. You haven't shown lack of validity. You can relish your
cynical view if you want to, but you will earn nothing but paranoia
from it and despair.
Projecting now Frank? Atheists have faced death, and recognize it for
what it is. We've learned not to fear it, put it on the back burner, and
enjoy today. Death is what Christianity is all about, it's what you
focus your lives on. And you think we're paranoid?
Wrong!!! Our God is of the living, not of the dead. The whole point of
Christianity is eternal life, not the eternal death atheists seek.
We choose to believe because we think the NT is a
viable and most inspiring philosophy of life.
Death. You misspelled death.
Most atheists always know what they hate, and seem reluctant to
tell
anyone what they love, fearing justifiably so, on meeting someone like
themselves, who is going to trash what they love and flame them for
being so stupid. Jesus is about the opposite of all that. See below
Liar.
LOL Thanks for proving my point of atheists only knowing what's wrong
and never what's right. They fancy themselves inundated by lies and liars,
much like yourself. It's part of the paranoia which grips atheist cynics.
Jesus Christ is waiting for you to acknowledge Him.
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| User: "Uncle Vic" |
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| Title: Re: BIBLE AUTHENTICITY |
07 Mar 2006 10:53:14 AM |
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Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Pastor Frank
(PF@christfirst.edu) made the light shine upon us with this:
Whatever. You haven't shown lack of validity. You can relish
your
cynical view if you want to, but you will earn nothing but paranoia
from it and despair.
Projecting now Frank? Atheists have faced death, and recognize it
for what it is. We've learned not to fear it, put it on the back
burner, and enjoy today. Death is what Christianity is all about,
it's what you focus your lives on. And you think we're paranoid?
Wrong!!! Our God is of the living, not of the dead. The whole
point of
Christianity is eternal life, not the eternal death atheists seek.
You worship a dead Jew. The highest holy day is the one where he was
killed. You wear his execution tool around your necks for crying out
loud. Christianity is a death cult. It's a placebo or those who fear
death, and only those who fear death seek it and hold it dearly. You
missed the Truth, though. Death is indeed eternal. If you don't think
so, provide evidence for your afterlife.
We all die, and we only die once. Death is not eternal. Death is but a
fleeting moment, the wall between life and non-life. Only time itself is
eternal.
--
Uncle Vic
aa Atheist #2011
Supervisor, EAC Department of little adhesive-backed "L" shaped
chrome-plastic doo-dads to add feet to Jesus fish department
Atheists get to live their lives in accordance with their own desires. I
call that a win, compared to the collossal waste of time being an active
Christian. Atheist: win. Christian: lose. "No win" never comes into
play, because there are no gods.
.
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| User: "Pastor Frank" |
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| Title: Re: BIBLE AUTHENTICITY |
07 Mar 2006 05:27:30 PM |
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"Uncle Vic" <address@withheld.com> wrote in message
news:Xns977F5A3B964F8vicman@216.196.97.136...
Once upon a time in alt.atheism, dear sweet Pastor Frank
(PF@christfirst.edu) made the light shine upon us with this:
Whatever. You haven't shown lack of validity. You can relish
your
cynical view if you want to, but you will earn nothing but paranoia
from it and despair.
Projecting now Frank? Atheists have faced death, and recognize it
for what it is. We've learned not to fear it, put it on the back
burner, and enjoy today. Death is what Christianity is all about,
it's what you focus your lives on. And you think we're paranoid?
Wrong!!! Our God is of the living, not of the dead. The whole
point of Christianity is eternal life, not the eternal death atheists
seek.
Death is indeed eternal. If you don't think
so, provide evidence for your afterlife.
We all die, and we only die once. Death is not eternal.
I think you got yourself mixed up here. Try that one again. I think our
relationship with God is akin to the one the dreamt has with his dreamer. In
that case death is not the oblivion atheists seek, but the waking up point
to a greater reality. There is no evidence either way, so don't break your
head thinking about it.
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| User: "bob young" |
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| Title: Re: BIBLE AUTHENTICITY |
07 Mar 2006 11:52:01 PM |
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