| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Mark Earnest" |
| Date: |
22 Dec 2004 12:41:23 PM |
| Object: |
Can Christians and Atheists Coexist? |
It may seem like atheists and Christians cannot coexist, since their views
on reality are so different. One has to see it to believe it, and the other
has to believe it to see it.
But I think that Christians and atheists just have to different and valid
perspectives of the same reality.
Atheists know that when the body is gone, the person does not exist in the
truest sense of the word. That is true, because how can one fully exist
without a body,
even if a spirit in some sense?
And Christians know that the spirit continues after death; they just do not
know that the continuation is not a full state of being alive.
After death, we exist, and yet we do not exist.
No wonder Christians and atheists are able to coexist in the work world.
The ironies of life.
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| User: "John Ings" |
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| Title: Re: Can Christians and Atheists Coexist? |
24 Dec 2004 05:23:12 AM |
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On Thu, 23 Dec 2004 21:58:40 -0600, Tim McGaughy <teekem@ispwest.com>
wrote:
Wrong with both definitions!
An atheist who will not answer the question "Is there a deity?" with
"No" is IMHO a very poor atheist.
I would answer "Is there a deity?" with
"I don't know, and neither do you!
But personally I don't believe in a deity."
That would make you an agnostic, not an atheist.
Sure! I am first and foremost an agnostic. But agnosticism is not a
way-station between atheism and theism. Agnosticm is about what you
think it is possible to know. Theism/atheism is about what you choose
to believe. You can be both an agnostic and an atheist.
Theism/atheism is about what you believe
Gnosticism/agnosticism is about what you think you can know.
Thus gnosticism/agnosticism is orthoganal to theism/atheism.
The agnostic doesn't just say HE doesn't know,
he argues nobody CAN know.
Thus you can be a gnostic-theist, who claims he knows there is a God
Or you can be a gnostic-atheist, a so-called 'hard' atheist who says
he knows there isn't a God.
Or you can be an agnostic-theist, who believes in a God he
acknowledges he has no actual knowledge of.
Or you can be an agnostic-atheist, who does not believe in a deity,
but who does not assert he can prove there isn't one.
The Bible says that "A fool in his heart says there is no God," and I
quite agree. To say that is as foolish as it is to say there is a God.
Either stance is to proclaim knowledge you don't posess.
Yep.
Just as a fool in his hear says there is no Wonko the magic elf.
Or no leprechauns. To try and prove there are no leprechauns or no
pink unicorns is as futile an exercise as trying to prove there are no
gods. It's a fool's game. The mystics can always retreat into their
(probably) imaginary supernatural world where all is anarchy and
nothing can ever be proven, and there's no point in trying to follow.
Now if you want to find out how you can be agnostic and atheist at the
same time, I suggest George H. Smith's book
"Atheism: The Case Against God"
## Presume not God to scan. The proper study of mankind is Man
.
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| User: "Tim McGaughy" |
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| Title: Re: Can Christians and Atheists Coexist? |
25 Dec 2004 09:38:09 PM |
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in article f8uns05e0c0v37vfq6o0itq5gl0hbs33h1@4ax.com, John Ings at
nodamned@spam.org wrote on 12/24/04 5:23 AM:
The Bible says that "A fool in his heart says there is no God," and I
quite agree. To say that is as foolish as it is to say there is a God.
Either stance is to proclaim knowledge you don't posess.
Yep.
Just as a fool in his heart says there is no Wonko the magic elf.
Or no leprechauns. To try and prove there are no leprechauns or no
pink unicorns is as futile an exercise as trying to prove there are no
gods. It's a fool's game. The mystics can always retreat into their
(probably) imaginary supernatural world where all is anarchy and
nothing can ever be proven, and there's no point in trying to follow.
That's great, but it's not what the bible passage refers to. It's talking
about opinions, not provability. What it says is that anyone of the opinion
that God does not exist is a fool, and I quite disagree.
Now if you want to find out how you can be agnostic and atheist at the
same time, I suggest George H. Smith's book
"Atheism: The Case Against God"
I find myself supremely uninterested.
.
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| User: "John Ings" |
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| Title: Re: Can Christians and Atheists Coexist? |
26 Dec 2004 05:18:18 AM |
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On Sat, 25 Dec 2004 21:38:09 -0600, Tim McGaughy <teekem@ispwest.com>
wrote:
The Bible says that "A fool in his heart says there is no God," and I
quite agree. To say that is as foolish as it is to say there is a God.
Either stance is to proclaim knowledge you don't posess.
Yep.
Just as a fool in his heart says there is no Wonko the magic elf.
Or no leprechauns. To try and prove there are no leprechauns or no
pink unicorns is as futile an exercise as trying to prove there are no
gods. It's a fool's game. The mystics can always retreat into their
(probably) imaginary supernatural world where all is anarchy and
nothing can ever be proven, and there's no point in trying to follow.
That's great, but it's not what the bible passage refers to. It's talking
about opinions, not provability.
No, I don't think that's a reference to opinion. The agnostic has
opinions about the existence or non-existence of deities, but the
devout think they know. Especially the ancient Hebrew devout
of the sort who composes psalms.
What it says is that anyone of the opinion
that God does not exist is a fool, and I quite disagree.
I don't. I doubt God exists, but I would never go so far as to even
have the opinion that he does not. My unbelief is an abstention in
other words, not a denial.
Now if you want to find out how you can be agnostic and atheist at the
same time, I suggest George H. Smith's book
"Atheism: The Case Against God"
I find myself supremely uninterested.
What's called 'invincibly ignorant' I suspect.
## A mind stretched by new ideas
## can never go back to its original dimensions.
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