Religions > Bible > Carl Walther again confirms his polytheism and contempt for the Bible
| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Pastor Steve Winter" |
| Date: |
13 May 2005 11:42:56 PM |
| Object: |
Carl Walther again confirms his polytheism and contempt for the Bible |
"Carl Walther" <no_no_no_splam@hotmail.com> spake thusly and
wrote:
Of course it defy's logic. Christianity defy's logic all the time. But
if you make God the Father and God the Son the same person, you are
making Him a liar. Why does God the Son pray to the Father if it
himself (the person of the Father)? Was he just pretending (lying) when
He did that?
It is the filthy false-christian scum Carl Walther who calls the
Bible and its author a liar.
John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with
you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me
hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the
Father?
It is the filthy false-christian scum Carl Walther who calls the
Bible and its author a liar.
Let's have another good Bible study then!
Though we humans (created in God's image) have body, soul and
spirit we are not each "three separate persons". Though God
manifested Himself as "Father, Son, and Holy Ghost" he is not
"three separate persons".
1) God is a Spirit.
John 4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must
worship [him] in spirit and in truth.
2) God is holy.
I Samuel 2:2 [There is] none holy as the LORD: for [there is]
none beside thee: neither [is there] any rock like our God.
3) God is a "Holy Spirit".
4) Jesus is the "Spirit of truth"
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the
life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
5) Jesus was "dwelling with them" and promised to be "in them".
John 14:17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot
receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye
know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
6) The "comforter" is the "Spirit of Christ"
John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
7) The "Spirit of Christ" is the "Holy Spirit" is the "Spirit of
Truth"
John 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the
Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and
bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto
you.
8) The Spirit of God visited His creation robed in flesh as the
"Son".
I Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of
godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the
Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on
in the world, received up into glory.
9) The fullness of God is in Jesus Christ
Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead
bodily.
Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of
all principality and power:
10) Jesus IS the "everlasting Father".
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:
and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall
be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting
Father, The Prince of Peace.
11) Those who believe that Jesus is a "seperate person" from the
"Father" don't really know Jesus at all.
John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with
you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me
hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the
Father?
Pastor sTeve Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
.
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| User: "alt" |
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| Title: Re: Carl Walther again confirms his polytheism and contempt for the Bible |
14 May 2005 02:19:54 AM |
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On Sat, 14 May 2005 00:42:56 -0400, Pastor Steve Winter wrote:
"Carl Walther" <no_no_no_splam@hotmail.com> spake thusly and
wrote:
Of course it defy's logic. Christianity defy's logic all the time. But
if you make God the Father and God the Son the same person, you are
making Him a liar. Why does God the Son pray to the Father if it
himself (the person of the Father)? Was he just pretending (lying) when
He did that?
It is the filthy false-christian scum Carl Walther who calls the
Bible and its author a liar.
John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with
you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me
hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the
Father?
It is the filthy false-christian scum Carl Walther who calls the
Bible and its author a liar.
Let's have another good Bible study then!
Though we humans (created in God's image) have body, soul and
spirit we are not each "three separate persons". Though God
manifested Himself as "Father, Son, and Holy Ghost" he is not
"three separate persons".
1) God is a Spirit.
John 4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must
worship [him] in spirit and in truth.
2) God is holy.
I Samuel 2:2 [There is] none holy as the LORD: for [there is]
none beside thee: neither [is there] any rock like our God.
3) God is a "Holy Spirit".
4) Jesus is the "Spirit of truth"
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the
life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
5) Jesus was "dwelling with them" and promised to be "in them".
John 14:17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot
receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye
know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
6) The "comforter" is the "Spirit of Christ"
John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
7) The "Spirit of Christ" is the "Holy Spirit" is the "Spirit of
Truth"
John 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the
Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and
bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto
you.
8) The Spirit of God visited His creation robed in flesh as the
"Son".
I Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of
godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the
Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on
in the world, received up into glory.
9) The fullness of God is in Jesus Christ
Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead
bodily.
Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of
all principality and power:
10) Jesus IS the "everlasting Father".
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:
and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall
be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting
Father, The Prince of Peace.
11) Those who believe that Jesus is a "seperate person" from the
"Father" don't really know Jesus at all.
John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with
you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me
hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the
Father?
John 20:17 - Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet
ascended to My Father; but go to my brethren and say to them, 'I am
ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'"
Steve, have you even read the gospels? It is littered with Jesus saying
that he is God and that he is not the Father. How can you possibly and in
good conscience call anyone who believes in the Trinity "false christian
scum"?
John 2:16 - And He said to those who sold doves, "Take these things away!
Do not make My Father's house a house of merchandise!"
John 3:17 - For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the
world, but that the world through him might be saved.
John 5:17 - But Jesus said to them, "My Father has been working until now,
and I have been working."
John 5:19-23 - Then Jesus answered them, "Most assuredly, I say to you,
the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for
whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner. For the Father loves
the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does; and He will show
Him greater works than these, that you may marvel. For as the Father
raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom
He will. For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgement to
the Son, that all should honour the Son just as they honour the Father. He
who does no honour the Son does not honour the Father who sent Him.
John 5:26 - "For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the
Son to have life in Himself."
John 5:30 - "I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My
judgement is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of
the Father who sent Me."
John 5:45 - "Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father;...."
(at this point I'm not going to type in all the verses where Jesus says
any phrase relating to the Father having sent him... there's just too many)
John 7:16 - Jesus answered them and said, "My doctrine is not Mine, but
His who sent Me."
John 8:19 - Then they said to him, "Where is Your Father?" Jesus answered,
"You know neither Me nor My Father. If you had known Me, you would have
known My Father also."
John 8:28 - Then Jesus said to them, "When you lift up the Son of Man,
then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing of Myself, but as
My Father taught Me, I speak these things."
John 8:54 - Jesus answered, "If I honour Myself, My honour is nothing. It
is My Father who honours Me, of whom you say that He is your God. Yet you
have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, 'I do not know Him.' I
shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word."
John 10:15 - "As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father;...."
John 10:17 - "Therefore My Father loves Me...."
John 10:18 - "...This command I have received from My Father."
John 10:25 - "..The works that I do in My Father's name, they bear witness
of Me."
John 11:41 - .... "Father, I thank You that You have heard Me."
John 12:26 - "If any serves Me, let him follow Me; and where I am, there
My servant will be also. If anyone serves Me, him My Father will honour."
John 12:27 - "... Father, save Me from this hour..."
John 12:28 - "Father, glorify your name." Then a voice came from heaven
saying, "I have both glorified it and will glorify it again."
John 14:11 - "Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me..."
[Note: it says "I am IN the Father", not "I AM the Father"]
John 14:23 - .."If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father
will love him, and _WE_ will come to him and make _OUR_ home with him."
John 14:28 - ..."I said, 'I am going to the Father,' for My Father is
greater than I."
At this point, I think I've quoted enough scripture to elaborate on what
these say.
There are two types of unity expressed in the Gospels.
The first is that God is one which is what we term as Monotheism. NO ONE
WHO BELIEVES THE TRINITY BELIEVES OTHERWISE. This is expressed in verses
like, "If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father."
The second is that Jesus is one with the Father. This is a unity of wills
and desires. ie, "I and the Father are one."
It is extremely important to know that Jesus is not the Father and yet
they are God. In the above are verses where Jesus proclaims the Father to
be greater than Himself (John 14:28). In no way does this mean that Jesus
isn't God or that he's separate from God. But Jesus does submit his will
to that of the Father.
To deny the separate person of Jesus is to deny much of what is written in
the Bible. To support a polytheistic belief is also to deny key scriptures
that support a monotheistic God. Both of these would be adding or
subtracting scripture, something warned against in Revelations 22:18-19.
The only logical explanation that I can come up with for what is written
in the Bible is the Monotheistic Trinity.
Say what you will, Steve, but the Bible is truth and I will not ignore
verses just to appease my own beliefs.
.
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| User: "Pastor Steve Winter" |
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| Title: Re: Carl Walther again confirms his polytheism and contempt for the Bible |
14 May 2005 06:52:43 PM |
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alt <spamtrap@lazyeyez.net> spake thusly and wrote:
Say what you will, Steve, but the Bible is truth and I will not ignore
verses just to appease my own beliefs.
Don't be such a hypocrite! Donovan Hill ignores all verses that
don't fit his filthy trinity religion.
I have never suggested that false-christian scum like Donovan
Hill don't have scriptures that they think support their
polytheism. I simply point out that when polytheists like
Donovan Hill or devils like Carl Walther try to defend their
polytheism that they are clearly admitting that they are
polytheists.
I hope this helps....
Pastor Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
.
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| User: "Pastor Steve Winter" |
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| Title: Jesus called filth like Carl Walther names like scum |
15 May 2005 09:57:26 PM |
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"Carl Walther" <no_no_no_splam@hotmail.com> spake thusly and
wrote:
I have never suggested that false-christian scum like Donovan
Hill don't have scriptures that they think support their
polytheism. I simply point out that when polytheists like
Donovan Hill or devils like Carl Walther try to defend their
polytheism that they are clearly admitting that they are
polytheists.
See my post as " Foul-mouthed Steve Winter and his lack of theology"
Wow... it's romper room theology whenever you write something Steve.
Look at a particular situation that shows us the Lord exhibiting
unusual behaviour; and that is, when he encountered false
preachers, false religionists, deceivers, pompous, pride
engorged, falsely religious scum like Carl Walther.
Matthew 23:33 [Ye] serpents, [ye] generation of vipers, how can
ye escape the damnation of hell?
Matthew 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites!
for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear
beautiful outward, but are within full of dead [men's] bones, and
of all uncleanness.
Looking carefully at verse 27. In our modern language "full of
dead men's bones and all uncleanliness" would roughly translate
as the modern term "scum". That tells me that if the Lord was
walking our streets today and encountered a denominal trinitarian
preacher, or some scum like Carl Walther, that He would call
him/her/it "scum", "snake", "hypocrite".
"Love incarnate" didn't coddle false preachers. The Apostle Paul
instructs us should we encounter anyone preaching other than the
original Acts 2:38 message:
Galatians 1:8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any
other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you,
let him be accursed.
(Check out Acts 19, if you have any doubts that Paul adhered to
the Acts 2:38 re-birth of WATER and SPIRIT.)
Would Jesus Christ call you and/or your preacher "scum" ? If
he's not preaching the Acts 2:38 Apostolic message, He sure
would!
Jesus is another "name caller" that the deceiving falsely
religious filth hate.
I hope this helps.
Pastor sTeve Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
.
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| User: "Rod" |
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| Title: Re: Carl Walther again confirms his polytheism and contempt for theBible |
14 May 2005 06:31:12 PM |
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alt wrote:
On Sat, 14 May 2005 00:42:56 -0400, Pastor Steve Winter wrote:
"Carl Walther" <no_no_no_splam@hotmail.com> spake thusly and
wrote:
Of course it defy's logic. Christianity defy's logic all the time. But
if you make God the Father and God the Son the same person, you are
making Him a liar. Why does God the Son pray to the Father if it
himself (the person of the Father)? Was he just pretending (lying) when
He did that?
It is the filthy false-christian scum Carl Walther who calls the
Bible and its author a liar.
John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with
you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me
hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the
Father?
It is the filthy false-christian scum Carl Walther who calls the
Bible and its author a liar.
Let's have another good Bible study then!
Though we humans (created in God's image) have body, soul and
spirit we are not each "three separate persons". Though God
manifested Himself as "Father, Son, and Holy Ghost" he is not
"three separate persons".
1) God is a Spirit.
John 4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must
worship [him] in spirit and in truth.
2) God is holy.
I Samuel 2:2 [There is] none holy as the LORD: for [there is]
none beside thee: neither [is there] any rock like our God.
3) God is a "Holy Spirit".
4) Jesus is the "Spirit of truth"
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the
life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
5) Jesus was "dwelling with them" and promised to be "in them".
John 14:17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot
receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye
know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
6) The "comforter" is the "Spirit of Christ"
John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
7) The "Spirit of Christ" is the "Holy Spirit" is the "Spirit of
Truth"
John 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the
Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and
bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto
you.
8) The Spirit of God visited His creation robed in flesh as the
"Son".
I Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of
godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the
Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on
in the world, received up into glory.
9) The fullness of God is in Jesus Christ
Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead
bodily.
Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of
all principality and power:
10) Jesus IS the "everlasting Father".
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:
and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall
be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting
Father, The Prince of Peace.
11) Those who believe that Jesus is a "seperate person" from the
"Father" don't really know Jesus at all.
John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with
you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me
hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the
Father?
John 20:17 - Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet
ascended to My Father; but go to my brethren and say to them, 'I am
ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'"
Steve, have you even read the gospels? It is littered with Jesus saying
that he is God and that he is not the Father. How can you possibly and in
good conscience call anyone who believes in the Trinity "false christian
scum"?
John 2:16 - And He said to those who sold doves, "Take these things away!
Do not make My Father's house a house of merchandise!"
John 3:17 - For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the
world, but that the world through him might be saved.
John 5:17 - But Jesus said to them, "My Father has been working until now,
and I have been working."
John 5:19-23 - Then Jesus answered them, "Most assuredly, I say to you,
the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for
whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner. For the Father loves
the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does; and He will show
Him greater works than these, that you may marvel. For as the Father
raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to whom
He will. For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgement to
the Son, that all should honour the Son just as they honour the Father. He
who does no honour the Son does not honour the Father who sent Him.
John 5:26 - "For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the
Son to have life in Himself."
John 5:30 - "I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My
judgement is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of
the Father who sent Me."
John 5:45 - "Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father;...."
(at this point I'm not going to type in all the verses where Jesus says
any phrase relating to the Father having sent him... there's just too many)
John 7:16 - Jesus answered them and said, "My doctrine is not Mine, but
His who sent Me."
John 8:19 - Then they said to him, "Where is Your Father?" Jesus answered,
"You know neither Me nor My Father. If you had known Me, you would have
known My Father also."
John 8:28 - Then Jesus said to them, "When you lift up the Son of Man,
then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing of Myself, but as
My Father taught Me, I speak these things."
John 8:54 - Jesus answered, "If I honour Myself, My honour is nothing. It
is My Father who honours Me, of whom you say that He is your God. Yet you
have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, 'I do not know Him.' I
shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word."
John 10:15 - "As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father;...."
John 10:17 - "Therefore My Father loves Me...."
John 10:18 - "...This command I have received from My Father."
John 10:25 - "..The works that I do in My Father's name, they bear witness
of Me."
John 11:41 - .... "Father, I thank You that You have heard Me."
John 12:26 - "If any serves Me, let him follow Me; and where I am, there
My servant will be also. If anyone serves Me, him My Father will honour."
John 12:27 - "... Father, save Me from this hour..."
John 12:28 - "Father, glorify your name." Then a voice came from heaven
saying, "I have both glorified it and will glorify it again."
John 14:11 - "Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me..."
[Note: it says "I am IN the Father", not "I AM the Father"]
John 14:23 - .."If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father
will love him, and _WE_ will come to him and make _OUR_ home with him."
John 14:28 - ..."I said, 'I am going to the Father,' for My Father is
greater than I."
At this point, I think I've quoted enough scripture to elaborate on what
these say.
There are two types of unity expressed in the Gospels.
The first is that God is one which is what we term as Monotheism. NO ONE
WHO BELIEVES THE TRINITY BELIEVES OTHERWISE. This is expressed in verses
like, "If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father."
The second is that Jesus is one with the Father. This is a unity of wills
and desires. ie, "I and the Father are one."
It is extremely important to know that Jesus is not the Father and yet
they are God. In the above are verses where Jesus proclaims the Father to
be greater than Himself (John 14:28). In no way does this mean that Jesus
isn't God or that he's separate from God. But Jesus does submit his will
to that of the Father.
To deny the separate person of Jesus is to deny much of what is written in
the Bible. To support a polytheistic belief is also to deny key scriptures
that support a monotheistic God. Both of these would be adding or
subtracting scripture, something warned against in Revelations 22:18-19.
The only logical explanation that I can come up with for what is written
in the Bible is the Monotheistic Trinity.
Say what you will, Steve, but the Bible is truth and I will not ignore
verses just to appease my own beliefs.
Tell me, have you bothered to read any verses I had posted, or is it
the trinitarian approach to ignore that which doesn't endorse your
theologies (one for each of your gods).
Please explain the following verse WITHOUT reading anything into it,
just take it as it is and then explain it !
John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with
you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me
hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the
Father?
And no this verse;
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:
and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall
be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting
Father, The Prince of Peace.
Has it ocurred to you that there is a reason He is called the
everlasting Father ?
.
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| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
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| Title: Re: Carl Walther again confirms his polytheism and contempt for the Bible |
27 May 2005 07:38:41 AM |
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Being *called* something, and being that something aren't always the same
thing...
"Rod" <freelance74601@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:118d2i5fsqrok10@corp.supernews.com...
alt wrote:
On Sat, 14 May 2005 00:42:56 -0400, Pastor Steve Winter wrote:
"Carl Walther" <no_no_no_splam@hotmail.com> spake thusly and
wrote:
Of course it defy's logic. Christianity defy's logic all the time. But
if you make God the Father and God the Son the same person, you are
making Him a liar. Why does God the Son pray to the Father if it
himself (the person of the Father)? Was he just pretending (lying) when
He did that?
It is the filthy false-christian scum Carl Walther who calls the
Bible and its author a liar.
John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with
you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me
hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the
Father?
It is the filthy false-christian scum Carl Walther who calls the
Bible and its author a liar.
Let's have another good Bible study then!
Though we humans (created in God's image) have body, soul and
spirit we are not each "three separate persons". Though God
manifested Himself as "Father, Son, and Holy Ghost" he is not
"three separate persons".
1) God is a Spirit.
John 4:24 God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must
worship [him] in spirit and in truth.
2) God is holy.
I Samuel 2:2 [There is] none holy as the LORD: for [there is]
none beside thee: neither [is there] any rock like our God.
3) God is a "Holy Spirit".
4) Jesus is the "Spirit of truth"
John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the
life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.
5) Jesus was "dwelling with them" and promised to be "in them".
John 14:17 [Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot
receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye
know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
6) The "comforter" is the "Spirit of Christ"
John 14:18 I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you.
7) The "Spirit of Christ" is the "Holy Spirit" is the "Spirit of
Truth"
John 14:26 But the Comforter, [which is] the Holy Ghost, whom the
Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and
bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto
you.
8) The Spirit of God visited His creation robed in flesh as the
"Son".
I Timothy 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of
godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the
Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on
in the world, received up into glory.
9) The fullness of God is in Jesus Christ
Colossians 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead
bodily.
Colossians 2:10 And ye are complete in him, which is the head of
all principality and power:
10) Jesus IS the "everlasting Father".
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:
and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall
be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting
Father, The Prince of Peace.
11) Those who believe that Jesus is a "seperate person" from the
"Father" don't really know Jesus at all.
John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with
you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me
hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou [then], Shew us the
Father?
John 20:17 - Jesus said to her, "Do not cling to Me, for I have not yet
ascended to My Father; but go to my brethren and say to them, 'I am
ascending to My Father and your Father, and to My God and your God.'"
Steve, have you even read the gospels? It is littered with Jesus saying
that he is God and that he is not the Father. How can you possibly and in
good conscience call anyone who believes in the Trinity "false christian
scum"?
John 2:16 - And He said to those who sold doves, "Take these things away!
Do not make My Father's house a house of merchandise!"
John 3:17 - For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the
world, but that the world through him might be saved.
John 5:17 - But Jesus said to them, "My Father has been working until
now,
and I have been working."
John 5:19-23 - Then Jesus answered them, "Most assuredly, I say to you,
the Son can do nothing of Himself, but what He sees the Father do; for
whatever He does, the Son also does in like manner. For the Father loves
the Son, and shows Him all things that He Himself does; and He will show
Him greater works than these, that you may marvel. For as the Father
raises the dead and gives life to them, even so the Son gives life to
whom
He will. For the Father judges no one, but has committed all judgement to
the Son, that all should honour the Son just as they honour the Father.
He
who does no honour the Son does not honour the Father who sent Him.
John 5:26 - "For as the Father has life in Himself, so He has granted the
Son to have life in Himself."
John 5:30 - "I can of Myself do nothing. As I hear, I judge; and My
judgement is righteous, because I do not seek My own will but the will of
the Father who sent Me."
John 5:45 - "Do not think that I shall accuse you to the Father;...."
(at this point I'm not going to type in all the verses where Jesus says
any phrase relating to the Father having sent him... there's just too
many)
John 7:16 - Jesus answered them and said, "My doctrine is not Mine, but
His who sent Me."
John 8:19 - Then they said to him, "Where is Your Father?" Jesus
answered,
"You know neither Me nor My Father. If you had known Me, you would have
known My Father also."
John 8:28 - Then Jesus said to them, "When you lift up the Son of Man,
then you will know that I am He, and that I do nothing of Myself, but as
My Father taught Me, I speak these things."
John 8:54 - Jesus answered, "If I honour Myself, My honour is nothing. It
is My Father who honours Me, of whom you say that He is your God. Yet you
have not known Him, but I know Him. And if I say, 'I do not know Him.' I
shall be a liar like you; but I do know Him and keep His word."
John 10:15 - "As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father;...."
John 10:17 - "Therefore My Father loves Me...."
John 10:18 - "...This command I have received from My Father."
John 10:25 - "..The works that I do in My Father's name, they bear
witness
of Me."
John 11:41 - .... "Father, I thank You that You have heard Me."
John 12:26 - "If any serves Me, let him follow Me; and where I am, there
My servant will be also. If anyone serves Me, him My Father will honour."
John 12:27 - "... Father, save Me from this hour..."
John 12:28 - "Father, glorify your name." Then a voice came from heaven
saying, "I have both glorified it and will glorify it again."
John 14:11 - "Believe Me that I am in the Father and the Father in Me..."
[Note: it says "I am IN the Father", not "I AM the Father"]
John 14:23 - .."If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father
will love him, and _WE_ will come to him and make _OUR_ home with him."
John 14:28 - ..."I said, 'I am going to the Father,' for My Father is
greater than I."
At this point, I think I've quoted enough scripture to elaborate on what
these say.
There are two types of unity expressed in the Gospels. The first is that
God is one which is what we term as Monotheism. NO ONE
WHO BELIEVES THE TRINITY BELIEVES OTHERWISE. This is expressed in verses
like, "If you have seen Me, you have seen the Father."
The second is that Jesus is one with the Father. This is a unity of wills
and desires. ie, "I and the Father are one."
It is extremely important to know that Jesus is not the Father and yet
they are God. In the above are verses where Jesus proclaims the Father to
be greater than Himself (John 14:28). In no way does this mean that Jesus
isn't God or that he's separate from God. But Jesus does submit his will
to that of the Father.
To deny the separate person of Jesus is to deny much of what is written
in
the Bible. To support a polytheistic belief is also to deny key
scriptures
that support a monotheistic God. Both of these would be adding or
subtracting scripture, something warned against in Revelations 22:18-19.
The only logical explanation that I can come up with for what is written
in the Bible is the Monotheistic Trinity. Say what you will, Steve, but
the Bible is truth and I will not ignore
verses just to appease my own beliefs.
Tell me, have you bothered to read any verses I had posted, or is it
the trinitarian approach to ignore that which doesn't endorse your
theologies (one for each of your gods).
Please explain the following verse WITHOUT reading anything into it,
just take it as it is and then explain it !
John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with
you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me
hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the
Father?
And no this verse;
Isaiah 9:6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given:
and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall
be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting
Father, The Prince of Peace.
Has it ocurred to you that there is a reason He is called the
everlasting Father ?
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| User: "alt" |
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| Title: Re: Carl Walther again confirms his polytheism and contempt for the Bible |
17 May 2005 01:34:35 AM |
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On Sat, 14 May 2005 18:31:12 -0500, Rod wrote:
Say what you will, Steve, but the Bible is truth and I will not ignore
verses just to appease my own beliefs.
Tell me, have you bothered to read any verses I had posted, or is it
the trinitarian approach to ignore that which doesn't endorse your
theologies (one for each of your gods).
I only have one God. Once you understand that we can talk.
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| User: "Rod" |
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| Title: Re: Carl Walther again confirms his polytheism and contempt for theBible |
17 May 2005 09:34:59 PM |
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alt wrote:
On Sat, 14 May 2005 18:31:12 -0500, Rod wrote:
Say what you will, Steve, but the Bible is truth and I will not ignore
verses just to appease my own beliefs.
Tell me, have you bothered to read any verses I had posted, or is it
the trinitarian approach to ignore that which doesn't endorse your
theologies (one for each of your gods).
I only have one God. Once you understand that we can talk.
Silence is golden.
--
John 14:6-10: Jesus saith unto him: "I am the way, the truth,
and the life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye
had known me, ye should have known my Father also, and from
henceforth YE KNOW HIM AND HAVE SEEN HIM."
.
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| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
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| Title: Re: Carl Walther again confirms his polytheism and contempt for the Bible |
27 May 2005 11:09:35 AM |
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"Rod" <freelance74601@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:118laetl528kve9@corp.supernews.com...
alt wrote:
On Sat, 14 May 2005 18:31:12 -0500, Rod wrote:
Say what you will, Steve, but the Bible is truth and I will not ignore
verses just to appease my own beliefs.
Tell me, have you bothered to read any verses I had posted, or is it
the trinitarian approach to ignore that which doesn't endorse your
theologies (one for each of your gods).
I only have one God. Once you understand that we can talk.
Silence is golden.
--
John 14:6-10: Jesus saith unto him: "I am the way, the truth,
and the life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye
had known me, ye should have known my Father also, and from
henceforth YE KNOW HIM AND HAVE SEEN HIM."
Gen.1:27-28
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| User: "alt" |
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| Title: Re: Carl Walther again confirms his polytheism and contempt for the Bible |
18 May 2005 09:40:18 PM |
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On Tue, 17 May 2005 21:34:59 -0500, Rod wrote:
alt wrote:
On Sat, 14 May 2005 18:31:12 -0500, Rod wrote:
Say what you will, Steve, but the Bible is truth and I will not ignore
verses just to appease my own beliefs.
Tell me, have you bothered to read any verses I had posted, or is it
the trinitarian approach to ignore that which doesn't endorse your
theologies (one for each of your gods).
I only have one God. Once you understand that we can talk.
Silence is golden.
You don't like me avoiding your straw man? You assume that I'm a
polytheist then base your arguments upon that assumption. But I am not a
polytheist and I will not play your game.
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| User: "Rod" |
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| Title: Re: Carl Walther again confirms his polytheism and contempt for theBible |
19 May 2005 12:04:45 PM |
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alt wrote:
On Tue, 17 May 2005 21:34:59 -0500, Rod wrote:
alt wrote:
On Sat, 14 May 2005 18:31:12 -0500, Rod wrote:
Say what you will, Steve, but the Bible is truth and I will not ignore
verses just to appease my own beliefs.
Tell me, have you bothered to read any verses I had posted, or is it
the trinitarian approach to ignore that which doesn't endorse your
theologies (one for each of your gods).
I only have one God. Once you understand that we can talk.
Silence is golden.
You don't like me avoiding your straw man?
The trouble with using strawmen is that you are seldom given an
honest answer, and thats all I wanted from you.
You assume that I'm a
polytheist then base your arguments upon that assumption.
That assumption comes from reading your posts. If you look like
a polytheist to me or anyone else, it's you own fault as the posts
written by you.
But I am not a
polytheist and I will not play your game.
I'm not playing games, and you don't have any answers that
can stand the light of day, and this assumption is also
derived from your posts.
Rod
--
John 14:6-10: Jesus saith unto him: "I am the way, the truth,
and the life; no man cometh unto the Father, but by me. If ye
had known me, ye should have known my Father also, and from
henceforth YE KNOW HIM AND HAVE SEEN HIM."
.
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| User: "alt" |
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| Title: Re: Carl Walther again confirms his polytheism and contempt for the Bible |
19 May 2005 10:50:05 PM |
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On Thu, 19 May 2005 12:04:45 -0500, Rod wrote:
alt wrote:
On Tue, 17 May 2005 21:34:59 -0500, Rod wrote:
alt wrote:
On Sat, 14 May 2005 18:31:12 -0500, Rod wrote:
Say what you will, Steve, but the Bible is truth and I will not ignore
verses just to appease my own beliefs.
Tell me, have you bothered to read any verses I had posted, or is it
the trinitarian approach to ignore that which doesn't endorse your
theologies (one for each of your gods).
I only have one God. Once you understand that we can talk.
Silence is golden.
You don't like me avoiding your straw man?
The trouble with using strawmen is that you are seldom given an
honest answer, and thats all I wanted from you.
First, you are the one creating a strawman argument.
Second, You wanted an honest answer from me by first assuming I was a
polytheist and then ignoring my correction on the issue? *boggle*
Third: Here's an honest answer: I am a monotheist.
You assume that I'm a
polytheist then base your arguments upon that assumption.
That assumption comes from reading your posts. If you look like
a polytheist to me or anyone else, it's you own fault as the posts
written by you.
I have stated before, and I will state it again. I am a monotheist. I will
not pretend to fully understand God nor will I limit him as he is an
unlimited God.
I choose to converse with and about his as if he were three persons
because it's a lot easier for me to relate to him that way and to relate
him to others that way. I also choose to use this model because it has a
solid biblical foundation.
But I am not a
polytheist and I will not play your game.
I'm not playing games, and you don't have any answers that
can stand the light of day, and this assumption is also
derived from your posts.
You are playing games, whether you want to admit it or not. You
make the dishonest assumption that the doctrine of the Trinity is
polytheistic and then, when corrected, ignore that correction. That's
called "willful ignorance" and is the mark of the dishonest.
It is Sabellian modalists like yourself that don't have answers that can
stand the light of day.
There are so many verses in the Gospels where Jesus proclaims his oneness
with the Father, and there are so many verses where Jesus proclaims
himself to not BE the Father. The only logical conclusion is the trinity,
a monotheistic belief in one God who manifests himself as three "persons"
simultaneously.
When you are prepared to read up and understand the doctrine of the
Trinity, you and I can discuss God in a rational matter. But until then, I
bid you adieu.
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| User: "Pastor Steve Winter" |
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| Title: Re: Carl Walther again confirms his polytheism and contempt for the Bible |
20 May 2005 01:17:20 PM |
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alt <spamtrap@lazyeyez.net> spake thusly and wrote:
It is Sabellian modalists like yourself that don't have answers that can
stand the light of day.
We see generic "three god" false christian filth (often without
the guts or integrity to even post with their true identity)
trying to classify the real "One God" Christian as some sort of
cult and they will often bring up some group that the RCC were
killing when they had free reign to do so. It is good to
remember that the same group doing the killing was also writing
history.
Since we know from the Word of God that trinitarians are the
spiritual whores and harlots in the Bible, we should also be
aware that when such spiritual filth were allowed to murder true
Christians, that they would accuse them of some type of "heresy".
One of the names that the ***** and harlots would use is "modal
monarchist" which basically means that the individual was a
monotheist instead of a "three god" *****.
It is not surprising that the "three god" harlots would also
"claim" to be "christian" today. It is also not surprising that
such spiritual scum would still have nice little "categories" to
"categorize" the true Christians as they used to do when they
would murder them.
The "harlot daughters" are the denominations that worship the
same false gods as the "Great *****" (the Catholic trinity).
Most of the false christian churches are daughters of the RCC.
That is another reason that no one can be saved in a trinity
church.
Revelation 17:1 And there came one of the seven angels which had
the seven vials, and talked with me, saying unto me, Come hither;
I will shew unto thee the judgment of the great ***** that
sitteth upon many waters:
The RCC "sitteth on many waters", she is international as are her
filthy harlot daughters.
Revelation 17:2 With whom the kings of the earth have committed
fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth have been made
drunk with the wine of her fornication.
Catholic "indulgences" and false religion have made many "drunk"
with her false religion.
Revelation 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the
wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast,
full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.
The "beast" is the economic community that the "*****" (the RCC)
rides on. The drunken nations support the Vatican.
Revelation 17:4 And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet
colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls,
having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and
filthiness of her fornication:
The pomp and jewelry and scarlet robes of the RCC etc.
Revelation 17:5 And upon her forehead [was] a name written,
MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND
ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH.
The RCC is the mother of all of the trinity denomintations
(harlots).
Revelation 17:6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the
saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I
saw her, I wondered with great admiration.
When the ***** and her harlots would murder the real Christians,
they would call them "heretics" also instead of calling them "One
God Apostolic Christians" they would call them "modal
monarchists". I am sure that some of the souls that the *****
murdered were really heretics, but not the majority.
We need to consider also that the ***** and her denominations
were certainly not above simply LYING about the true saints that
they were butchering.
No organization has murdered (as "heretics") so many real
Apostolic Christians as the Roman Catholic Church! History knows
no other possible organization than the RCC to fit verse Rev
17:6. Her harlot daughters are every bit as filthy as their
mother. Speaking of abomination, several of the three god cults
are even now ordaining Sodomites (see
http://www.prime.org/Sewers.html
I guess I find it kind of amazing that, given the historical
accounts of the murderous roots of the RCC, AND the blatant
disregard for so much of the Bible's commandments; that so many
people can be so deceived into a blind loyalty to such a filthy,
ungodly cult.
To be a happy catholic or trinitarian one must simply close one's
mind to historical events. One must reject most of the Bible that
pertains to the new testament church (including the teachings of
Peter). The RCC must simultaneously claim Peter as "infallible
pope" while declaring that he disobeyed Jesus by teaching JESUS
NAME baptism (Acts 2:38). They must teach that Acts 2:38 is
disobedience to Matt 28:19 (rather than the FULFILLMENT that it
*really* was).
They must disregard the mentions of Jesus' earthly flesh brothers
to continue their "mother god" cultism (which is actually the
worship of Diana). It is no wonder that they found needful to
murder much of the early Christian church (who knew only one God,
Jesus[Jehovah Saviour]).
Galatians 1:19 But other of the apostles saw I none, save James
the Lord's brother.
Acts 1:14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and
supplication, with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and
with his brethren.
They must attempt to Biblically prove three gods, while knowing
that they are going to tack a "one god" disclaimer on the end to
try to appear "scriptural". Yet their gods are a "they" rather
than a "he".
When pinned down concerning areas of gross disobedience they want
to talk about "love" and try to appear gentle and "loving", while
their cup still drips with the blood of thousands of true
Christians.
There's nothing "Christian" about the RCC OR her harlot
denominal daughters.
The RCC is the Great *****. It is no surprise when her members
brazenly blaspheme against God, it is the nature of a harlot.
Prov 30:20 Such is the way of an adulterous woman; she eateth,
and wipeth her mouth, and saith, I have done no wickedness.
Rev 17:5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY,
BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE
EARTH.
The church of "mystery trinity" and Donovan Hill, and "vera" and
scum like Charles "Quartus Stanley, and Stephen Adams and of
course the pride engorged bumbler Carl Walther.
Pastor sTeve Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
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| User: "Pastor Steve Winter" |
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| Title: Re: Carl Walther again confirms his polytheism and contempt for the Bible |
20 May 2005 01:14:56 PM |
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alt <spamtrap@lazyeyez.net> spake thusly and wrote:
Third: Here's an honest answer: I am a monotheist.
Is this that filthy scum Donovan Hill still lying?
But the false-christian scum Donovan Hill worships the SAME
TRINITY GOD SQUAD that the pope did and she is headed to the same
lake.
In what way is Donovan Hill's three headed Roman idol god squad
different from the popes three headed Roman idol god squad?
In what way is Donovan Hill's trinity cult baptism different
than the pope's trinity cult baptism?
Donovan Hill is merely "Catholic lite"<tm>, polytheistic,
false-christian scum.
Pastor Winter
--
Apostolic Oneness Pentecostal /*/ PreRapture Ministry
http://www.apostolic.biz for Bible studies (text and audio)
Have you obeyed Acts 2:38 as Paul taught in Acts 19:4-6?
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| User: "Quartus" |
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| Title: Re: Carl Walther again confirms his polytheism and contempt for theBible |
14 May 2005 08:28:53 PM |
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Rod wrote:
Please explain the following verse WITHOUT reading anything into it,
just take it as it is and then explain it !
John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with
you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me
hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the
Father?
I've explained this verse to you several times, Rod. You choose to
ignore the fact that your interpretation of this verse does not square
with other scriptures which clearly show that Jesus Christ, though God,
is not the Father.
In essence, you are pitting God against Himself when you force an
interpretation upon a solitary verse whilst ignoring other scriptures
which plainly show your view as wrong.
Moreover, your false view makes God a mocker of man, by deceiving man
into believing that He is praying to another, when, in your view, He is
actually praying to Himself.
Carl has repeatedly asked a very revealing question of your mentor
Steve, which Steve steadfastly refuses to answer (not surprising).
"Are you your own father?"
The scripture comes to mind which says, 'Is any ignorant? Let him be
ignorant still.'
Steve Winter is blind, and you are following him.
Quartus, a brother.
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| User: "Rod" |
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| Title: Re: Carl Walther again confirms his polytheism and contempt for theBible |
15 May 2005 07:33:21 PM |
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Quartus wrote:
Rod wrote:
Please explain the following verse WITHOUT reading anything into it,
just take it as it is and then explain it !
John 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with
you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me
hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the
Father?
I've explained this verse to you several times, Rod. You choose to
ignore the fact that your interpretation of this verse does not square
with other scriptures which clearly show that Jesus Christ, though God,
is not the Father.
In essence, you are pitting God against Himself when you force an
interpretation upon a solitary verse whilst ignoring other scriptures
which plainly show your view as wrong.
Moreover, your false view makes God a mocker of man, by deceiving man
into believing that He is praying to another, when, in your view, He is
actually praying to Himself.
Carl has repeatedly asked a very revealing question of your mentor
Steve, which Steve steadfastly refuses to answer (not surprising).
"Are you your own father?"
The scripture comes to mind which says, 'Is any ignorant? Let him be
ignorant still.'
Steve Winter is blind, and you are following him.
Quartus, a brother.
I've heard what you have to say, quartus. I was replying to alt, and
am interested in his opinion, unless of course you have to give him
an opinion ?
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