| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"" |
| Date: |
29 Mar 2005 05:09:52 AM |
| Object: |
CATHOLIC BELIEVERS? |
Given the general tenor of various posts within these groups, might it
not be asked whether Scripture is to be trusted when it states that,
"if you shall confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and shall believe
in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you shall be
saved" (Rom. 10:9)? Can a Catholic confess the Lord Jesus with his
mouth and believe in his heart that God has raised him from the dead?
Perhaps, while assigning others not completely of our persuasion to
perdition we would do well to consider as well the words of John, "He
who loves not knows not God" (I John 4:8) - not in relation to those
outside our immediate circles, but in light of the vast numbers of
"Bible believing" churches characterized by infighting, ill will and
contention within their own midsts. For as further stated by James,
"From whence come wars and fightings among you? Come they not hence,
even of your lusts that war in your members" (Js. 4:1)?
If, indeed, we are to proclaim ourselves as people of God, might it not
be appropriate to first clean up our own act? "For the time is come
that judgment must begin at the house of God" (I Pet. 4:17).
Burl Ratzsch
http://burlratzsch.blogspot.com/
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| User: "Dave Oldridge" |
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| Title: Re: CATHOLIC BELIEVERS? |
29 Mar 2005 10:27:43 AM |
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wrote in news:1112094592.032604.264810
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Given the general tenor of various posts within these groups, might it
not be asked whether Scripture is to be trusted when it states that,
"if you shall confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and shall believe
in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you shall be
saved" (Rom. 10:9)? Can a Catholic confess the Lord Jesus with his
mouth and believe in his heart that God has raised him from the dead?
As far as I know, this is a doctrine that is not negotiable. For the
RCC, the Orthodox, the Episcopalians, the Old Catholics--as far as I know
for all catholic rites. I did have an argument about it once with an LCC
bishop...we had sort of a falling out over his idea that the whole thing
was a symbolic allegory, while I took a more orthodox position (that
Jesus literally rose).
So what posts do you think reflect a different view on the part
(presumably of members of the RCC?). I realize there are many
Protestants who feel that the RCC is apostate. I do not believe they
are. They still use the Nicene Creed and, while they have attached some
extra-curricular stuff to their train, it's still more or less on the
same track as the early Christians. In fact, by redacting the canon and
repudiating Holy Orders, I think Luther went further off the rails rather
than coming back onto them.
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
A false witness is worse than no witness at all.
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| User: "Dr. Newto Joseph" |
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| Title: Re: CATHOLIC BELIEVERS? |
30 Mar 2005 08:43:32 PM |
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"Dave Oldridge" <doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> wrote in message
news:Xns9628561287BE0doldridgsprintca@24.71.223.159...
bdratzsch@aol.com wrote in news:1112094592.032604.264810
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
The Hypothesis
By New10.
One of man's worst enemies resulted from the use of untestable
hypotheses. Unless a hypothesis can be tested to see what answer nature
gives-the hypothesis is meaningless.
There are very few, if any, untestable hypotheses made today-most
of them having arisen in medieval times, the Dark Ages and earlier. The
foremost example is the belief is the belief in "God." Others are found in
various religions; the existence of the soul, eternal life, angels, devils,
evil spirits, reincarnation, survival of the consciousness are examples. The
New Age movement retains some of these and has added others such as
out-of-body experience, thought transfer, ESP and so on.
Testable hypothesis, on the other hand, are a gateway to
knowledge. Science is benefited by their use. If experiment seems to support
a hypothesis, other tests are drawn up and made. When exhaustive tests give
support and virtual approval and when verification by the tests of others
independent scientists the hypothesis advances to the status of a theory.
The propagation and acceptance of religious beliefs through the
ages has been to the detriment of society because they are unfounded and
divisive. They are divisive because they are in contradiction with each
other. Some are nationalistic; some are racial causing further divisiveness.
All of them arose out of superstition, fear, and ignorance.
Today it is sad to realize that millions if not billions of
people, because of their religious beliefs, are being kept from knowing the
beautiful and simple truth about themselves, their earth and their universe.
However, religious beliefs are a great comfort, an opiate, to millions of
the poor and the wretched of the world: as the old saying goes, it's an ill
wind that blows no good!
It has to be recognized however that religious beliefs arose at a
time when they did "make sense"-at a time when there was little knowledge
and no awareness of the meaning of knowledge. The meaning of knowledge
(epistemology) was seeded during the Scientific Renaissance (14th to the
16th century), grew during the Scientific Revolution that followed and came
to flower in the twentieth century.
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| User: "Dave Oldridge" |
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| Title: Re: CATHOLIC BELIEVERS? |
30 Mar 2005 11:18:39 PM |
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"Dr. Newto Joseph" <drnjoseph@socal.rr.com> wrote in
news:otJ2e.5135$e06.4197@twister.socal.rr.com:
"Dave Oldridge" <doldridg@leavethisoutshaw.ca> wrote in message
news:Xns9628561287BE0doldridgsprintca@24.71.223.159...
bdratzsch@aol.com wrote in news:1112094592.032604.264810
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
The Hypothesis
By New10.
One of man's worst enemies resulted from the use of
untestable
hypotheses. Unless a hypothesis can be tested to see what answer
nature gives-the hypothesis is meaningless.
There are very few, if any, untestable hypotheses made
today-most
of them having arisen in medieval times, the Dark Ages and earlier.
The foremost example is the belief is the belief in "God." Others are
found in various religions; the existence of the soul, eternal life,
angels, devils, evil spirits, reincarnation, survival of the
consciousness are examples. The New Age movement retains some of these
and has added others such as out-of-body experience, thought transfer,
ESP and so on.
Testable hypothesis, on the other hand, are a gateway to
knowledge. Science is benefited by their use. If experiment seems to
support a hypothesis, other tests are drawn up and made. When
exhaustive tests give support and virtual approval and when
verification by the tests of others independent scientists the
hypothesis advances to the status of a theory.
So you wouldn't object to a practical theurgy but otherwise you don't
like religion because it's mostly carried out by theorists rather than
actual experimenters?
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
A false witness is worse than no witness at all.
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| User: "Dave Oldridge" |
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| Title: Re: CATHOLIC BELIEVERS? |
03 Apr 2005 03:33:33 AM |
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bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in
news:424A4BC6.75B8985@netvigator.com:
Dave Oldridge wrote:
bdratzsch@aol.com wrote in news:1112094592.032604.264810
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Given the general tenor of various posts within these groups, might
it not be asked whether Scripture is to be trusted when it states
that, "if you shall confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and
shall believe in your heart that God has raised him from the dead,
you shall be saved" (Rom. 10:9)? Can a Catholic confess the Lord
Jesus with his mouth and believe in his heart that God has raised
him from the dead?
As far as I know, this is a doctrine that is not negotiable. For the
RCC, the Orthodox, the Episcopalians, the Old Catholics--as far as I
know for all catholic rites. I did have an argument about it once
with an LCC bishop...we had sort of a falling out over his idea that
the whole thing was a symbolic allegory, while I took a more orthodox
position (that Jesus literally rose).
He literally rose from the dead and floated upwards!?
Was dead and then was alive again. The floating thing is entirely
negotiable.
The old book says this, but of course in the days of the old book,
heaven was thought to be just above the clouds where today we fly
747's.
Time to grow up Buster, it is 2002 now; not year 5 !!!
Yawn.
So what posts do you think reflect a different view on the part
(presumably of members of the RCC?).
"Christians, it is needless to say, utterly detest each other. They
slander each other constantly with the vilest forms of abuse and
cannot come to any sort of agreement in their teachings. Each sect
brands its own, fills the head of its own with deceitful nonsense, and
makes perfect little pigs of those it wins over to its side."
[R.J.Hoffmann]
Christians hold that their faith does good, but other faiths do harm.
At any rate, they hold this about the Communist faith. What I wish to
maintain is that all faiths do harm. We may define 'faith' as a firm
belief in something for which there is no evidence. When there is
evidence, no one speaks of 'faith.' We do not speak of faith that two
and two are four or that the earth is round. We only speak of faith
when we wish to substitute emotion for evidence.
[Bertrand Russell]
And atheists point the finger at Christians yet fail to acknowledge the
harm that atheists have done. Believe me, getting rid of religion is not
a cure for what ails mankind.
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
A false witness is worse than no witness at all.
.
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| User: "Dave Oldridge" |
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| Title: Re: CATHOLIC BELIEVERS? |
13 Apr 2005 07:42:08 PM |
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bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in
news:4258DFFB.86EDB2C3@netvigator.com:
Dave Oldridge wrote:
bob young <alaspectrum@netvigator.com> wrote in
news:424A4BC6.75B8985@netvigator.com:
Dave Oldridge wrote:
bdratzsch@aol.com wrote in news:1112094592.032604.264810
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:
Given the general tenor of various posts within these groups,
might it not be asked whether Scripture is to be trusted when it
states that, "if you shall confess with your mouth the Lord
Jesus and shall believe in your heart that God has raised him
from the dead, you shall be saved" (Rom. 10:9)? Can a Catholic
confess the Lord Jesus with his mouth and believe in his heart
that God has raised him from the dead?
As far as I know, this is a doctrine that is not negotiable. For
the RCC, the Orthodox, the Episcopalians, the Old Catholics--as
far as I know for all catholic rites. I did have an argument
about it once with an LCC bishop...we had sort of a falling out
over his idea that the whole thing was a symbolic allegory, while
I took a more orthodox position (that Jesus literally rose).
He literally rose from the dead and floated upwards!?
Was dead and then was alive again. The floating thing is entirely
negotiable.
The old book says this, but of course in the days of the old book,
heaven was thought to be just above the clouds where today we fly
747's.
Time to grow up Buster, it is 2002 now; not year 5 !!!
Yawn.
No cogent argument so you yawn. Well done fella.
Good thing the designers of 747's didn't yawn whilst they were
designing 'em!
I only use cogent arguments to refute actual arguments. Puerile drivel
only gets a yawn.
--
Dave Oldridge+
ICQ 1800667
A false witness is worse than no witness at all.
.
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| User: "Bible Bob" |
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| Title: Re: CATHOLIC BELIEVERS? |
30 Mar 2005 03:36:25 PM |
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On 29 Mar 2005 03:09:52 -0800, wrote:
Given the general tenor of various posts within these groups, might it
not be asked whether Scripture is to be trusted when it states that,
"if you shall confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and shall believe
in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you shall be
saved" (Rom. 10:9)? Can a Catholic confess the Lord Jesus with his
mouth and believe in his heart that God has raised him from the dead?
Perhaps, while assigning others not completely of our persuasion to
perdition we would do well to consider as well the words of John, "He
who loves not knows not God" (I John 4:8) - not in relation to those
outside our immediate circles, but in light of the vast numbers of
"Bible believing" churches characterized by infighting, ill will and
contention within their own midsts. For as further stated by James,
"From whence come wars and fightings among you? Come they not hence,
even of your lusts that war in your members" (Js. 4:1)?
If, indeed, we are to proclaim ourselves as people of God, might it not
be appropriate to first clean up our own act? "For the time is come
that judgment must begin at the house of God" (I Pet. 4:17).
Burl Ratzsch
http://burlratzsch.blogspot.com/
Burl,
Those who do Roman's 10:9 are aved regardless of which denomination
they belong to. There is only one church, the body fo Christ which is
the church of God.
Non-commercial website where everything is free.
http://www.biblebob.net
BB
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: CATHOLIC BELIEVERS? |
29 Mar 2005 05:50:27 PM |
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On 29 Mar 2005 03:09:52 -0800, wrote:
Given the general tenor of various posts within these groups, might it
not be asked whether Scripture is to be trusted when it states that,
"if you shall confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and shall believe
in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you shall be
saved" (Rom. 10:9)? Can a Catholic confess the Lord Jesus with his
mouth and believe in his heart that God has raised him from the dead?
We've been doing that for 2000 years now.
Can you do the same if you reject his words in scripture?
Perhaps, while assigning others not completely of our persuasion to
perdition we would do well to consider as well the words of John, "He
who loves not knows not God" (I John 4:8) - not in relation to those
outside our immediate circles, but in light of the vast numbers of
"Bible believing" churches characterized by infighting, ill will and
contention within their own midsts. For as further stated by James,
"From whence come wars and fightings among you? Come they not hence,
even of your lusts that war in your members" (Js. 4:1)?
If, indeed, we are to proclaim ourselves as people of God, might it not
be appropriate to first clean up our own act? "For the time is come
that judgment must begin at the house of God" (I Pet. 4:17).
Burl Ratzsch
http://burlratzsch.blogspot.com/
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Doc: The absent-minded-professor!" |
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| Title: Re: CATHOLIC BELIEVERS? |
30 Mar 2005 11:56:16 AM |
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On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:50:27 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> sez the
following funny stuff:
We've been doing that for 2000 years now.
the romanist CULT is nothing but a manmade lot.
Can you do the same if you reject his words in scripture?
YOU Reject them every time you pray to Mary and fondle prayer beads.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: CATHOLIC BELIEVERS? |
29 Mar 2005 08:02:58 AM |
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Well said and a good sentiment, however, complete truth does not lie at the
door of just one or two verses.
Catholicism spends most of it's time, just as Satan does, thinking about God
and maybe talking about God but that is not the same as salvation.
Tell-tale signs that Catholicism is not born-again Christian faith are found
in such things as idolatry and lack of fellowship with real Christianity.
It is the duty of one who knows the truth to warn those who don't. Sure
modern Christian faith has problems but that is a sign that it is the real
thing.
<bdratzsch@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1112094592.032604.264810@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
Given the general tenor of various posts within these groups, might it
not be asked whether Scripture is to be trusted when it states that,
"if you shall confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and shall believe
in your heart that God has raised him from the dead, you shall be
saved" (Rom. 10:9)? Can a Catholic confess the Lord Jesus with his
mouth and believe in his heart that God has raised him from the dead?
Perhaps, while assigning others not completely of our persuasion to
perdition we would do well to consider as well the words of John, "He
who loves not knows not God" (I John 4:8) - not in relation to those
outside our immediate circles, but in light of the vast numbers of
"Bible believing" churches characterized by infighting, ill will and
contention within their own midsts. For as further stated by James,
"From whence come wars and fightings among you? Come they not hence,
even of your lusts that war in your members" (Js. 4:1)?
If, indeed, we are to proclaim ourselves as people of God, might it not
be appropriate to first clean up our own act? "For the time is come
that judgment must begin at the house of God" (I Pet. 4:17).
Burl Ratzsch
http://burlratzsch.blogspot.com/
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: CATHOLIC BELIEVERS? |
29 Mar 2005 05:51:23 PM |
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On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 09:02:58 -0500, <real@believer.com> wrote:
Well said and a good sentiment, however, complete truth does not lie at the
door of just one or two verses.
Catholicism spends most of it's time, just as Satan does, thinking about God
and maybe talking about God but that is not the same as salvation.
Tell-tale signs that Catholicism is not born-again Christian faith are found
in such things as idolatry
We don't do any of that.
and lack of fellowship with real Christianity.
Really. Where?
duke
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Doc: The absent-minded-professor!" |
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| Title: Re: CATHOLIC BELIEVERS? |
30 Mar 2005 11:55:59 AM |
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On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:51:23 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> sez the
following funny stuff:
idolatry
We don't do any of that.
Oh YES YOU DO.
Every time you pray to Mary, you are practicing idoloatry.
Every time you kneel before lifeless statues of her or anyone else,
you are practicing idolatry.
If you claim you domn't, you're also adding LIES to your list.
"The Mass mess is the most IMperfect form of Prayer."
.
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| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
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| Title: Re: CATHOLIC BELIEVERS? |
18 Apr 2005 09:15:47 AM |
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Sorry Doc, as I usually fully agree with you...I am non-denominational (I
see most all chueches as having *parts* of the truth, but unable to
recognize the other parts, held by others)...
"Doc: The absent-minded-professor!" <Doc@Watson.yup> wrote in message
news:b1ql411cm8v86gittokq0hnkl3j6mosbno@4ax.com...
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:51:23 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> sez the
following funny stuff:
idolatry
We don't do any of that.
Oh YES YOU DO.
Every time you pray to Mary, you are practicing idoloatry.
Every time you talk to a loved one at their grave sight, you are practicing
idoloatry? Or if you talk to them anywhere for that matter ?
Every time you kneel before lifeless statues of her or anyone else,
you are practicing idolatry.
Every timeyou kneel before your remoteless TV / Radio / CD player, or
whatever, to change channels, stations, recordings, er whatever, you are
practicing idoloatry/idolatry ?
If you claim you domn't, you're also adding LIES to your list.
"The Mass mess is the most IMperfect form of Prayer."
.
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| User: "Doc: The absent-minded-professor!" |
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| Title: Re: CATHOLIC BELIEVERS? |
18 Apr 2005 10:43:48 AM |
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On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 09:15:47 -0500, "Glenn \(Christian Mystic\)"
<christianmystic@ev1.net> sez the following funny stuff:
Sorry Doc, as I usually fully agree with you...I am non-denominational (I
see most all chueches as having *parts* of the truth, but unable to
recognize the other parts, held by others)...
Well, Glenn .. I have never made any claims to perfection!! :o)
"Doc: The absent-minded-professor!" <Doc@Watson.yup> wrote in message
news:b1ql411cm8v86gittokq0hnkl3j6mosbno@4ax.com...
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:51:23 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> sez the
following funny stuff:
idolatry
We don't do any of that.
Oh YES YOU DO.
Every time you pray to Mary, you are practicing idoloatry.
Every time you talk to a loved one at their grave sight, you are practicing
idoloatry? Or if you talk to them anywhere for that matter ?
I don't 'talk to loved ones at gravesites'. Why would I, when they
couldn't hear me?
Their souls are not in the grave; only the shell of them is!
Every time you kneel before lifeless statues of her or anyone else,
you are practicing idolatry.
Every timeyou kneel before your remoteless TV / Radio / CD player, or
whatever, to change channels, stations, recordings, er whatever, you are
practicing idoloatry/idolatry ?
I would be if I was praying to them, no doubt! But Glenn- all I do is
squat in front, change the channel, and stand up again - besides- it's
good exercise instead of constantly using a remote from a chair! :o)
.
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| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
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| Title: Re: CATHOLIC BELIEVERS? |
19 Apr 2005 08:02:47 AM |
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"Doc: The absent-minded-professor!" <Doc@Watson.yup> wrote in message
news:38l761t6flnegnq18g4dcchtm10frmgou1@4ax.com...
On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 09:15:47 -0500, "Glenn \(Christian Mystic\)"
<christianmystic@ev1.net> sez the following funny stuff:
Sorry Doc, as I usually fully agree with you...I am non-denominational (I
see most all chueches as having *parts* of the truth, but unable to
recognize the other parts, held by others)...
Well, Glenn .. I have never made any claims to perfection!! :o)
Nor I :0) (My Jewish nose is a bit bigger)
"Doc: The absent-minded-professor!" <Doc@Watson.yup> wrote in message
news:b1ql411cm8v86gittokq0hnkl3j6mosbno@4ax.com...
On Tue, 29 Mar 2005 17:51:23 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> sez the
following funny stuff:
idolatry
We don't do any of that.
Oh YES YOU DO.
Every time you pray to Mary, you are practicing idoloatry.
Every time you talk to a loved one at their grave sight, you are
practicing
idoloatry? Or if you talk to them anywhere for that matter ?
I don't 'talk to loved ones at gravesites'. Why would I, when they
couldn't hear me?
Mine hear me, they aren't dead, they just left their bodies. While I don't
hold to RC's communications with Mary, their words do seem to take on the
form of prayer, to me, but I don't know their hearts, I don't wrong, or
prayer in talking to/with angels (Rev.22:8-9), who have passed on. As long
as, of course, such doesn't cross the line into prayer / worship, remember
Satan was a fallen angel.
Their souls are not in the grave; only the shell of them is!
Agreed, whole heartingly, thing is, many protestants do talk with / to their
loved ones there, where they were buried.
Every time you kneel before lifeless statues of her or anyone else,
you are practicing idolatry.
Every timeyou kneel before your remoteless TV / Radio / CD player, or
whatever, to change channels, stations, recordings, er whatever, you are
practicing idoloatry/idolatry ?
I would be if I was praying to them, no doubt! But Glenn- all I do is
squat in front, change the channel, and stand up again - besides- it's
good exercise instead of constantly using a remote from a chair! :o)
They(Roman Catholics) may think that they only "squat in front" of their
"saints" as well...I don't have all the facts, so I can't judge them. The
line between talking to / with, and praying to them, is for me a fuzzy
thing, that only their hearts, and God can know.
Note, I am really not sticking up for them, but at the same time, I give
them the benifit of the doubt, that they might not be crossing that line (if
they so claim), I have though warned, as I have also heard some Catholic
priests do, them of the danger of doing so.
.
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| User: "Doc: The absent-minded-professor!" |
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| Title: Re: CATHOLIC BELIEVERS? |
19 Apr 2005 09:00:41 AM |
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On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 08:02:47 -0500, "Glenn \(Christian Mystic\)"
<christianmystic@ev1.net> sez the following funny stuff:
Mine hear me, they aren't dead, they just left their bodies. While I don't
hold to RC's communications with Mary, their words do seem to take on the
form of prayer, to me, but I don't know their hearts, I don't wrong, or
prayer in talking to/with angels (Rev.22:8-9), who have passed on. As long
as, of course, such doesn't cross the line into prayer / worship, remember
Satan was a fallen angel.
I do. hat's why I will not pray to anyone who is dead. There has been
a great gulf fixed, so that they who have passed through cannot reach
us, as the Bible says.
We CAN see ghosts, as the Bible has said. But to pray TO dead people,
you could well be getting a reply from a demon, and not the 'relative'
at all.
Plus, Jesus never authorized praying to dead people.
It's your choice, Glenn, and I won't knock you for it. But it does go
against what the Bible teaches, IMO. :o)
Their souls are not in the grave; only the shell of them is!
Agreed, whole heartingly, thing is, many protestants do talk with / to their
loved ones there, where they were buried.
Well, that's up to them. I'm just saying I won't, and gave what I
believe to be valid reasons why. :o)
They(Roman Catholics) may think that they only "squat in front" of their
"saints" as well...I don't have all the facts, so I can't judge them. The
line between talking to / with, and praying to them, is for me a fuzzy
thing, that only their hearts, and God can know.
Note, I am really not sticking up for them, but at the same time, I give
them the benifit of the doubt, that they might not be crossing that line (if
they so claim), I have though warned, as I have also heard some Catholic
priests do, them of the danger of doing so.
Well, IMO, while not trying to judge them sither, I CAN judge what I
see. And to me, praying to dead people is their own choice, but I
won't do it.
As for praying to statues, they HAVE crossed the line. The bible says
so, and I believe it. :o)
.
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| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
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| Title: Re: CATHOLIC BELIEVERS? |
22 Apr 2005 11:12:22 PM |
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Talking to / praying to aren't always the same thing, unless of course I am
presently praying to you
:-o
"Doc: The absent-minded-professor!" <Doc@Watson.yup> wrote in message
news:df3a61l97umfvb1ri5s7uml36q117o1pa7@4ax.com...
On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 08:02:47 -0500, "Glenn \(Christian Mystic\)"
<christianmystic@ev1.net> sez the following funny stuff:
Mine hear me, they aren't dead, they just left their bodies. While I don't
hold to RC's communications with Mary, their words do seem to take on the
form of prayer, to me, but I don't know their hearts, I don't wrong, or
prayer in talking to/with angels (Rev.22:8-9), who have passed on. As long
as, of course, such doesn't cross the line into prayer / worship, remember
Satan was a fallen angel.
I do. hat's why I will not pray to anyone who is dead. There has been
a great gulf fixed, so that they who have passed through cannot reach
us, as the Bible says.
We CAN see ghosts, as the Bible has said. But to pray TO dead people,
you could well be getting a reply from a demon, and not the 'relative'
at all.
Plus, Jesus never authorized praying to dead people.
It's your choice, Glenn, and I won't knock you for it. But it does go
against what the Bible teaches, IMO. :o)
Their souls are not in the grave; only the shell of them is!
Agreed, whole heartingly, thing is, many protestants do talk with / to
their
loved ones there, where they were buried.
Well, that's up to them. I'm just saying I won't, and gave what I
believe to be valid reasons why. :o)
They(Roman Catholics) may think that they only "squat in front" of their
"saints" as well...I don't have all the facts, so I can't judge them. The
line between talking to / with, and praying to them, is for me a fuzzy
thing, that only their hearts, and God can know.
Note, I am really not sticking up for them, but at the same time, I give
them the benifit of the doubt, that they might not be crossing that line
(if
they so claim), I have though warned, as I have also heard some Catholic
priests do, them of the danger of doing so.
Well, IMO, while not trying to judge them sither, I CAN judge what I
see. And to me, praying to dead people is their own choice, but I
won't do it.
As for praying to statues, they HAVE crossed the line. The bible says
so, and I believe it. :o)
.
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| User: "Constantin Tita" |
|
| Title: Re: CATHOLIC BELIEVERS? |
23 Apr 2005 04:28:12 PM |
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If you are really sensible you would rather consider retreating from your
statement.
There is rather one thing you forgot to mention in all your "well thought
gesture", permit say that, i.e. even the Jesus you are talking of also
"Died". So should as well not pray to Him. Please, don't believe the Bible,
believe in God, for if you believe the Bible then you can't testify that you
are a real believer, for believers are those who believe in one God, not
those who believe the Bible. Please, Read John 21:25.
God bless you
A Roman Catholic.
"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:116ji6olhsk1t07@corp.supernews.com...
Talking to / praying to aren't always the same thing, unless of course I
am presently praying to you
:-o
"Doc: The absent-minded-professor!" <Doc@Watson.yup> wrote in message
news:df3a61l97umfvb1ri5s7uml36q117o1pa7@4ax.com...
On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 08:02:47 -0500, "Glenn \(Christian Mystic\)"
<christianmystic@ev1.net> sez the following funny stuff:
Mine hear me, they aren't dead, they just left their bodies. While I
don't
hold to RC's communications with Mary, their words do seem to take on the
form of prayer, to me, but I don't know their hearts, I don't wrong, or
prayer in talking to/with angels (Rev.22:8-9), who have passed on. As
long
as, of course, such doesn't cross the line into prayer / worship,
remember
Satan was a fallen angel.
I do. hat's why I will not pray to anyone who is dead. There has been
a great gulf fixed, so that they who have passed through cannot reach
us, as the Bible says.
We CAN see ghosts, as the Bible has said. But to pray TO dead people,
you could well be getting a reply from a demon, and not the 'relative'
at all.
Plus, Jesus never authorized praying to dead people.
It's your choice, Glenn, and I won't knock you for it. But it does go
against what the Bible teaches, IMO. :o)
Their souls are not in the grave; only the shell of them is!
Agreed, whole heartingly, thing is, many protestants do talk with / to
their
loved ones there, where they were buried.
Well, that's up to them. I'm just saying I won't, and gave what I
believe to be valid reasons why. :o)
They(Roman Catholics) may think that they only "squat in front" of their
"saints" as well...I don't have all the facts, so I can't judge them. The
line between talking to / with, and praying to them, is for me a fuzzy
thing, that only their hearts, and God can know.
Note, I am really not sticking up for them, but at the same time, I give
them the benifit of the doubt, that they might not be crossing that line
(if
they so claim), I have though warned, as I have also heard some Catholic
priests do, them of the danger of doing so.
Well, IMO, while not trying to judge them sither, I CAN judge what I
see. And to me, praying to dead people is their own choice, but I
won't do it.
As for praying to statues, they HAVE crossed the line. The bible says
so, and I believe it. :o)
.
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| User: "Phineas J Whoopie" |
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| Title: Re: CATHOLIC BELIEVERS? |
25 Apr 2005 04:59:27 PM |
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|
"Constantin Tita" <dicapo@kawo1.rwth-aachen.de> wrote in message
news:3cvsvfF5gbkdhU1@news.dfncis.de...
If you are really sensible you would rather consider retreating from your
statement.
There is rather one thing you forgot to mention in all your "well thought
gesture", permit say that, i.e. even the Jesus you are talking of also
"Died". So should as well not pray to Him. Please, don't believe the
Bible, believe in God, for if you believe the Bible then you can't testify
that you are a real believer, for believers are those who believe in one
God, not those who believe the Bible. Please, Read John 21:25.
God bless you
A Roman Catholic.
A Roman Catholic says to believe in one god? A god they define as 3 people?
Irony or what.
A Catholic says Jesus died? As though anything is a big deal for a god?
Irony or what.
Unfortunately, Jesus had a bad weekend for your sins to make his old man
happy. Can you say *disfunctional family*? I wonder if there is a twelve
step program for the christian god.
PJW
<snip>
.
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| User: "Constantin Tita" |
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| Title: Re: CATHOLIC BELIEVERS? |
26 Apr 2005 04:17:15 AM |
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Sorry my good friend. Even those who don't say it out, that there are three
Gods in one still profess it day to day. They talk of Holy Spirit, Jesus
Christ and God the Father. You can't separate the three. They are three in
one. Remember what happened at the Baptism of Jesus at river Jordan. The
Three were present. God the Father speaking about God the Son and at the
same time God the Holy Spirit came down in the form of a dove on God the
Son.
Romanist.
"Phineas J Whoopie" <abc@tbeytel.net> wrote in message
news:AZGdnbOS6Zuy9fDfRVn-ig@tbaytel.net...
"Constantin Tita" <dicapo@kawo1.rwth-aachen.de> wrote in message
news:3cvsvfF5gbkdhU1@news.dfncis.de...
If you are really sensible you would rather consider retreating from your
statement.
There is rather one thing you forgot to mention in all your "well thought
gesture", permit say that, i.e. even the Jesus you are talking of also
"Died". So should as well not pray to Him. Please, don't believe the
Bible, believe in God, for if you believe the Bible then you can't
testify that you are a real believer, for believers are those who believe
in one God, not those who believe the Bible. Please, Read John 21:25.
God bless you
A Roman Catholic.
A Roman Catholic says to believe in one god? A god they define as 3
people? Irony or what.
A Catholic says Jesus died? As though anything is a big deal for a god?
Irony or what.
Unfortunately, Jesus had a bad weekend for your sins to make his old man
happy. Can you say *disfunctional family*? I wonder if there is a twelve
step program for the christian god.
PJW
<snip>
.
|
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| User: "Phineas J Whoopie" |
|
| Title: Re: CATHOLIC BELIEVERS? |
08 Jun 2005 05:52:12 PM |
|
|
"Constantin Tita" <dicapo@kawo1.rwth-aachen.de> wrote in message
news:3d6f8iF6pbl93U1@news.dfncis.de...
Sorry my good friend. Even those who don't say it out, that there are
three Gods in one still profess it day to day.
Does that mean if you say something long enough and loud enough that it
becomes true?
They talk of Holy Spirit, Jesus Christ and God the Father. You can't
separate the three.
That is an oxymoron since appartently someone along the way has in fact made
a distinction between them.
They are three in one.
How is that relevant to anything?
Remember what happened at the Baptism of Jesus at river Jordan. The Three
were present. God the Father speaking about God the Son and at the same
time God the Holy Spirit came down in the form of a dove on God the Son.
Romanist.
Have another drink my dellusional friend.
PJW
"Phineas J Whoopie" <abc@tbeytel.net> wrote in message
news:AZGdnbOS6Zuy9fDfRVn-ig@tbaytel.net...
"Constantin Tita" <dicapo@kawo1.rwth-aachen.de> wrote in message
news:3cvsvfF5gbkdhU1@news.dfncis.de...
If you are really sensible you would rather consider retreating from
your statement.
There is rather one thing you forgot to mention in all your "well
thought gesture", permit say that, i.e. even the Jesus you are talking
of also "Died". So should as well not pray to Him. Please, don't
believe the Bible, believe in God, for if you believe the Bible then you
can't testify that you are a real believer, for believers are those who
believe in one God, not those who believe the Bible. Please, Read John
21:25.
God bless you
A Roman Catholic.
A Roman Catholic says to believe in one god? A god they define as 3
people? Irony or what.
A Catholic says Jesus died? As though anything is a big deal for a god?
Irony or what.
Unfortunately, Jesus had a bad weekend for your sins to make his old man
happy. Can you say *disfunctional family*? I wonder if there is a twelve
step program for the christian god.
PJW
<snip>
.
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| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
|
| Title: Re: CATHOLIC BELIEVERS? |
29 Apr 2005 09:20:19 PM |
|
|
Got me confused, I don't recall saying anything like you seem to be implying
that I had.
"Constantin Tita" <dicapo@kawo1.rwth-aachen.de> wrote in message
news:3cvsvfF5gbkdhU1@news.dfncis.de...
If you are really sensible you would rather consider retreating from your
statement.
There is rather one thing you forgot to mention in all your "well thought
gesture", permit say that, i.e. even the Jesus you are talking of also
"Died". So should as well not pray to Him. Please, don't believe the
Bible, believe in God, for if you believe the Bible then you can't testify
that you are a real believer, for believers are those who believe in one
God, not those who believe the Bible. Please, Read John 21:25.
God bless you
A Roman Catholic.
"Glenn (Christian Mystic)" <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote in message
news:116ji6olhsk1t07@corp.supernews.com...
Talking to / praying to aren't always the same thing, unless of course I
am presently praying to you
:-o
"Doc: The absent-minded-professor!" <Doc@Watson.yup> wrote in message
news:df3a61l97umfvb1ri5s7uml36q117o1pa7@4ax.com...
On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 08:02:47 -0500, "Glenn \(Christian Mystic\)"
<christianmystic@ev1.net> sez the following funny stuff:
Mine hear me, they aren't dead, they just left their bodies. While I
don't
hold to RC's communications with Mary, their words do seem to take on
the
form of prayer, to me, but I don't know their hearts, I don't wrong, or
prayer in talking to/with angels (Rev.22:8-9), who have passed on. As
long
as, of course, such doesn't cross the line into prayer / worship,
remember
Satan was a fallen angel.
I do. hat's why I will not pray to anyone who is dead. There has been
a great gulf fixed, so that they who have passed through cannot reach
us, as the Bible says.
We CAN see ghosts, as the Bible has said. But to pray TO dead people,
you could well be getting a reply from a demon, and not the 'relative'
at all.
Plus, Jesus never authorized praying to dead people.
It's your choice, Glenn, and I won't knock you for it. But it does go
against what the Bible teaches, IMO. :o)
Their souls are not in the grave; only the shell of them is!
Agreed, whole heartingly, thing is, many protestants do talk with / to
their
loved ones there, where they were buried.
Well, that's up to them. I'm just saying I won't, and gave what I
believe to be valid reasons why. :o)
They(Roman Catholics) may think that they only "squat in front" of their
"saints" as well...I don't have all the facts, so I can't judge them.
The
line between talking to / with, and praying to them, is for me a fuzzy
thing, that only their hearts, and God can know.
Note, I am really not sticking up for them, but at the same time, I give
them the benifit of the doubt, that they might not be crossing that line
(if
they so claim), I have though warned, as I have also heard some Catholic
priests do, them of the danger of doing so.
Well, IMO, while not trying to judge them sither, I CAN judge what I
see. And to me, praying to dead people is their own choice, but I
won't do it.
As for praying to statues, they HAVE crossed the line. The bible says
so, and I believe it. :o)
.
|
|
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| User: "Doc: The absent-minded-professor!" |
|
| Title: Re: CATHOLIC BELIEVERS? |
24 Apr 2005 12:54:16 PM |
|
|
On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 23:28:12 +0200, "Constantin Tita"
<dicapo@kawo1.rwth-aachen.de> sez the following funny stuff:
If you are really sensible you would rather consider retreating from your
statement.
There is rather one thing you forgot to mention in all your "well thought
gesture", permit say that, i.e. even the Jesus you are talking of also
"Died". So should as well not pray to Him. Please, don't believe the Bible,
believe in God, for if you believe the Bible then you can't testify that you
are a real believer, for believers are those who believe in one God, not
those who believe the Bible. Please, Read John 21:25.
God bless you
A Roman Catholic.
That was easy to see you're a romanist, by your confounded confusion.
Since Jesus IS God Incarnate, there is nothing wrong whatsoever in
praying to Him, since HE and HE ALONE intervenes to God, the REAL Holy
Father on our behalf.
Mary doesn't. Mary is dead, and her body awaits the resurrectoin just
the same as all others who have died in Christ.
Her soul is in Heaven, yes- so are the souls of those who also have
all died in Christ, and those souls are not to be prayed to either.
You're being led astray by the false teachings of papa-roma.
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of
her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye
receive not of her plagues.
.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
|
| Title: Re: CATHOLIC BELIEVERS? - |
24 Apr 2005 02:58:48 PM |
|
|
"Doc: The absent-minded-professor!" wrote:
On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 23:28:12 +0200, "Constantin Tita"
<dicapo@kawo1.rwth-aachen.de> sez the following funny stuff:
If you are really sensible you would rather consider retreating from your
statement.
There is rather one thing you forgot to mention in all your "well thought
gesture", permit say that, i.e. even the Jesus you are talking of also
"Died". So should as well not pray to Him. Please, don't believe the Bible,
believe in God, for if you believe the Bible then you can't testify that you
are a real believer, for believers are those who believe in one God, not
those who believe the Bible. Please, Read John 21:25.
God bless you
A Roman Catholic.
That was easy to see you're a romanist, by your confounded confusion.
Since Jesus IS God Incarnate, there is nothing wrong whatsoever in
praying to Him, since HE and HE ALONE intervenes to God, the REAL Holy
Father on our behalf.
===>The only real "God" is NATURE, the ETERNAL COSMIC PROCESS,
and everything that exists is thus "GOD INCARNATE".
But nothing that exists is worthy of worship. Certainly not the idol
deities invented by humans. -- L.
.
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| User: "Mark T hellofundyf@head004" |
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| Title: Re: CATHOLIC BELIEVERS? |
24 Apr 2005 06:16:24 PM |
|
|
"Doc: The absent-minded-professor!" wrote:
That was easy to see you're a romanist, by your confounded confusion.
#################################################
.... quoting from James Barr's book "Fundamentalism" on the three
distinguishing features of the Fundamentalist '... an assurance that those
who do not share their religious viewpoint are not really true Christians at
all.' - Peter Cameron "Heretic" (Doubleday; Sydney: 1994) p. 178
#################################################
.
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| User: "Constantin Tita" |
|
| Title: Re: CATHOLIC BELIEVERS? |
24 Apr 2005 01:34:55 PM |
|
|
I am happy you say Jesus IS God Incarnate, that is irrefutable. But never
forget the fact that the ONLY link between God and man is Mary. God didn't
chose your own mother to be that link. and remember at the cross Christ
dedicated his mother to the he loved i.e. John. see John 19Vs 25-27. Keep
your believe to yourself and don't judge whatsoever other people believe and
neither should you call any teachings false teachings. Your believe in God
should never be influenced by what romanists do. Just believe in your God
and know you will have your eternal life at the end.
"Doc: The absent-minded-professor!" <Doc@Watson.yup> wrote in message
news:sbfn61dvtkmb1ecj0c7a3qhpdqhbhcbdpc@4ax.com...
On Sat, 23 Apr 2005 23:28:12 +0200, "Constantin Tita"
<dicapo@kawo1.rwth-aachen.de> sez the following funny stuff:
If you are really sensible you would rather consider retreating from your
statement.
There is rather one thing you forgot to mention in all your "well thought
gesture", permit say that, i.e. even the Jesus you are talking of also
"Died". So should as well not pray to Him. Please, don't believe the
Bible,
believe in God, for if you believe the Bible then you can't testify that
you
are a real believer, for believers are those who believe in one God, not
those who believe the Bible. Please, Read John 21:25.
God bless you
A Roman Catholic.
That was easy to see you're a romanist, by your confounded confusion.
Since Jesus IS God Incarnate, there is nothing wrong whatsoever in
praying to Him, since HE and HE ALONE intervenes to God, the REAL Holy
Father on our behalf.
Mary doesn't. Mary is dead, and her body awaits the resurrectoin just
the same as all others who have died in Christ.
Her soul is in Heaven, yes- so are the souls of those who also have
all died in Christ, and those souls are not to be prayed to either.
You're being led astray by the false teachings of papa-roma.
Rev 18:4 And I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of
her, my people, that ye be not partakers of her sins, and that ye
receive not of her plagues.
.
|
|
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| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
|
| Title: Re: CATHOLIC BELIEVERS? |
30 Apr 2005 07:07:54 AM |
|
|
"Constantin Tita" <dicapo@kawo1.rwth-aachen.de> wrote in message
news:3d2769F6pnuc5U1@news.dfncis.de...
I am happy you say Jesus IS God Incarnate, that is irrefutable. But never
forget the fact that the ONLY link between God and man is Mary.
1Tim.2:5
<snip>
.
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| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
|
| Title: Re: CATHOLIC BELIEVERS? |
30 Apr 2005 04:01:11 AM |
|
|
"Werner -the Christian Agnostic- Kurator" <werner@peace-with.all> wrote in
message news:slrnd6vit1.136.werner@not_known_to.me...
Top-posting moved below:
That is plain mean to the disabled / handicaped
<snipped>
.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: CATHOLIC BELIEVERS? |
24 Apr 2005 05:46:51 PM |
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Constantin Tita wrote:
I am happy you say Jesus IS God Incarnate, that is irrefutable.
===>HOW can it be "irrefutable"?
Jesus was a MAN, a fellow from Galilee.
What qualifies a man to be God? -- L.
.
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| User: "Doc: The absent-minded-professor!" |
|
| Title: Re: CATHOLIC BELIEVERS? |
25 Apr 2005 05:32:23 AM |
|
|
On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 16:46:51 -0600, Libertarius
<Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> done went and wrote as Gospel
Truth in these here little old Usenet News'FROUPS:
Constantin Tita wrote:
I am happy you say Jesus IS God Incarnate, that is irrefutable.
===>HOW can it be "irrefutable"?
Jesus was a MAN, a fellow from Galilee.
What qualifies a man to be God? -- L.
BECAUSE Jesus was born as a man on earth, at GOD's command, that's
why.
HE IS THE SON OF GOD, who is the REAL HOLY FATHER.......... IOW, God
Incarnate.
-------------------------------------------------------
JESUS IS THE ROCK
God doesn't call the qualified; He qualifies the called
-------------------------------------------------------
.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: CATHOLIC BELIEVERS? |
25 Apr 2005 11:18:53 AM |
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"Doc: The absent-minded-professor!" wrote:
On Sun, 24 Apr 2005 16:46:51 -0600, Libertarius
<Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> done went and wrote as Gospel
Truth in these here little old Usenet News'FROUPS:
Constantin Tita wrote:
I am happy you say Jesus IS God Incarnate, that is irrefutable.
===>HOW can it be "irrefutable"?
Jesus was a MAN, a fellow from Galilee.
What qualifies a man to be God? -- L.
BECAUSE Jesus was born as a man on earth, at GOD's command, that's
why.
===>Can you prove that, or are you simply quoting a myth?
NOTE: There are many other such myths about a god being incarnate or
a man being really a son of a god. -- L.
.
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