"gatekeeper" <gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1179557833.000359.198820@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...

On May 18, 11:45 pm, "Mistylien" <yardhol...@charter.net> wrote:

"gatekeeper" <gatekeeper.eastg...@hotmail.com> wrote in message

news:1179468415.771128.284030@q75g2000hsh.googlegroups.com...

On May 17, 11:25 pm, "Mistylien" <yardhol...@charter.net> wrote:

"KlugeHans" <Clever-H...@smartnag.com> wrote in message

news:Clever-Hans-1805071241570001@192.168.0.3...

In article <qstp4391q5iaf78oockthqa6dfn8eai...@4ax.com>, Pastor Dave
<n...@nowhere.com> wrote:

Before beginning, it might interest some to know,
that there have been a total of 27 sieges on
Jerusalem. That totals 3X9. 3 is Divine completeness
and 9 is a judgment number in Scripture. This seems
to indicate that all has been fulfilled for Jerusalem,
Biblically. And there have been a total of 3 Temples.
Solomon's, Herod's and now the Church, as it says in
the Bible (Church = 1 Cor 3:16 / Believer = 1 Cor 6:19).

( 1 Cor 3:16 )
this is not a temple that could be torn down.
(1 Cor 6:19 )
Nor is this a temple that can be torn down.
Neither were built by human hands.

I am not sure what your referring to by quoting this from 1 Cor? What
is your point?

I was looking at that temple in there to see if it could be any way torn
down by the prince like the one that happened in 70 AD.
but the Temple in 1Cor 3 is not any temple that humans can knock down
because it is not man made but is being made By God himself.
the total of all Christians make up that city. and it is
my point that it can not be torn down by human hands.

M, that reference to those who said, "Let us remove hence!" Who was
this great multitude that was heard speaking?

Give BCV so we also can see where you are getting that info from.

This is from the record of Josephus, and others, as written in the
first post by Dave in the thread. No BCV specifically! There were
recorded reports of this great multitude in the temple, when at the
same time there were other reports of the signs of the apocalypse
occurring which fulfilled Mathew 24!

Ok so it may be Historically correct then??
BCV does not necessarily mean Bible passages you all know.
it also may mean what book of Josephus it was found in or
even some place else.

I do not find in Matt 24 any prophecy of any multitude that would
come ,but I will read it closer in a min. to see if there is
any reference to it that I may have missed.

I think some place in the Bible also it is stated that the graves were open
because of some earth quake and many came out of the graves and were
walking around for people to see.
The earth quake was when he died on thee cross was one but there may
have been another one where the graves were opened and let the people come
walking out.

This happened when the priest went in the night to minister in the
temple. There would not have been a multitude of people in the
temple, in the middle of the night. Where did this multitude come
from. Could it have been the multitude who had been resurrected of
which I told you about in the other thread?

Again where are you refering this is stated??

In the historical records of the event!

Ok.

This is who I have come to understand they were, and with all the
other signs fulfilling the requirement of prophetic fulfillment of
Matt 24, you can choose to believe or not! I choose to believe that
Matt 24 has been fulfilled in 70 AD, and this then is the foundation
of many other startling beliefs which may not fit with pop-
Christianity, but then I have never been satisfied with the party
line!

Well then you have a very narrow sight of what was being prophesied
in Matt 24.

AS I read it that whole chapter is a lot of prophesies and it covers a long
lenght of time even up to "today".

Yes it even inclueded 70 AD but also a lot more and a long way beyond
70 AD as well.

M,

As I continued to watch your conversation with Fred, I must warn you
that you are getting dangerously close to crossing that party line as
well! Smile though, it is a beautiful and wonderful frontier of
lovely vistas of long grass and sweet water that refreshes the soul!

The Eastgate is open, the King is in Residence!
Whosoever will, may come in@

Gatekeeper- Hide quoted text -

You are correct to say that I have a very short vision of its
fulfillment. That is why I believe it was all completed back there in
70 AD. I find no reason to look for ongoing fulfillments up to and
beyond the current time! What occurred in 70 AD, precluded anything
happening in the Future from the view of prophecies previously
recorded regarding national Israel . That does not mean that we have
no concept of the future, as some may foolishly claim, just that
national Israel does not figure into any prophecy subsequent to 70
AD.

Well Revelation was written like 95 AD and it has a continuatoin of
prophesies that are in Daniel.

I do not agree with you when you say,

AS I read it that whole chapter is a lot of prophesies and it covers a long
lenght of time even up to "today".

Yes it even inclueded 70 AD but also a lot more and a long way beyond
70 AD as well.

That you agree it included 70 AD is a step in the right direction, but
where do you get that it has anything to do with us today, other than
your pop-Christian eschatology. You show me BCV, not your
calculations about 2300 and that foolishness! People have been trying
to figure out some future fulfillment scheme for ages, and strangely
they always have it figured out, so that they are in the middle of all
that is going on! They act as if God had been waiting all these
years, to finally have them come along, and open their Bible, so that
now He can reveal the rest of His plans about how the Beast is going
to rise out of the sea, and there will be a revived Roman empire, and
then a rebuilt temple so that He will have a bed to sleep on for a
1000 years while Heaven is being remodeled with a bunch of mansions
for us to stay in when we get there.

I 'm sorry M, but I don't find any BCV to support the futurist line of
eschatology! Now I understand that you have a scheme about 2300 years,
that you are all excited about, but I find that this is all a
deception, and not found in Scripture!

No it is a glitch in the King James Version of the Bible that has
the 2300 Days and it is suppose to be 2300 evenings and mornings to
read correctly like it is in all other versions.
Days in prophecy means Literal Years but;
Evenings and morings mean literal days.

In Genesis evening and morning denotes one day. as God checked them
off as one , then 2 then 3 and so on.

You Are welcome to show me otherwise if you really think you can!

Ok Most prophesies have the Word "Days" right behind them.
to indicate it is a prophetic time, and it needs to be treated as a prophetic
time period. for the most part we just need a starting date. and off we
go to put it in some time line.

To understand "days" we need to get Bible authority for the KEY
to "days".

And we get that from Numbers 14:34 for one
and from Ezekiel 4:4-6 for 2 more times. so now we have it
3 times for proof.

it says like "days for years" or years for days" as god is making
prophecy there for the first time.

He is not going to give us that key code every time He makes prophecy.

So that is why He says the wise will know how to do it.

But He does give us the same prophecy in different ways so it is
not so easy to be deciphered by all and anyone.
But once you have the keys it is easy to recognize we need
to combine some prophesies to get the idea out of them and the
proper or correct lenght of time as is needed in a correct way.

M,

On 18 May 2007 23:57:13 -0700, gatekeeper
<gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> claimed:

On May 18, 11:45 pm, "Mistylien"
<yardhol...@charter.net> wrote:

( 1 Cor 3:16 )
this is not a temple that could be torn down.
(1 Cor 6:19 )
Nor is this a temple that can be torn down.
Neither were built by human hands.

I am not sure what your referring to by quoting
this from 1 Cor? What is your point?

I think her point is to show that the Temple
of God now, is the church and each individual
believer.

On 18 May 2007 23:57:13 -0700, gatekeeper
<gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> claimed:

On May 18, 11:45 pm, "Mistylien"
<yardhol...@charter.net> wrote:

( 1 Cor 3:16 )
this is not a temple that could be torn down.
(1 Cor 6:19 )
Nor is this a temple that can be torn down.
Neither were built by human hands.

I am not sure what your referring to by quoting
this from 1 Cor? What is your point?

I think her point is to show that the Temple
of God now, is the church and each individual
believer.

You see, while the Dispy's wait for a physical
third Temple *building* (which Scripture never
says there would be), they missed the boat,
because Scripture tells us that the third Temple
is the church and each individual believer,
which is what makes up the church.

If we read each passage, instead of this interpretation
of hers, then we can see that.

M, that reference to those who said,
"Let us remove hence!" Who was this
great multitude that was heard speaking?

Give BCV so we also can see where you
are getting that info from.

This is from the record of Josephus, and others,
as written in the first post by Dave in the thread.
No BCV specifically!

I don't know what "BVC" means, but I did give
a specific reference. And both Josephus, a Jew
and Tacitus, a Roman who was not a Christian
and had no interest in making them look powerful.

You are correct to say that I have a very short vision
of its fulfillment. That is why I believe it was all
completed back there in 70 AD. I find no reason
to look for ongoing fulfillments up to and beyond
the current time!

The sad part is, that even though THEY KNOW
that the events of 70 AD fulfilled the prophecies,
they intentionally ignore it and try to claim it
has yet to happen. Some are even willing to
admit that it happened, but claim it will happen
again. Now what is this, if not ego and vanity?

This would be like talking about anything that
has happened in history and then turning around
and either saying that it hasn't happened yet,
or that it will happen again. Why? Because it
has to be about US TODAY! I mean, didn't you
know that Jesus came in the 1st century, because
He really wanted to ignore everyone He looked at
and spoke to, because He really wanted to talk
right past them, so He could talk to us?! I mean,
why would He come in the 21st century, if He
wanted to talk to the people in the 21st century!

It makes so much more sense to address people
in the 21st century, by coming in the 1st century
and talking right past those folks! I mean, if I
wanted to communicate with someone in the
41st century, I would definitely make sure to
gather up some people and talk to them as if
I was addressing them and actually be ignoring
them, without telling them, you know, so that
I could make sure to confuse them! After all,
God is the author of confusion, isn't He? :)

What occurred in 70 AD, precluded anything
happening in the Future from the view of
prophecies previously recorded regarding
national Israel. That does not mean that
we have no concept of the future, as some
may foolishly claim, just that national Israel
does not figure into any prophecy subsequent
to 70 AD.

Amen! And Paul told us clearly, that it is
the church that is "the Israel of God" now,
in Galatians 6:15-16.

I do not agree with you when you say,

AS I read it that whole chapter is a lot
of prophesies and it covers a long
lenght of time even up to "today".

Yes it even inclueded 70 AD but also
a lot more and a long way beyond
70 AD as well.

That you agree it included 70 AD is a step in
the right direction, but where do you get that
it has anything to do with us today, other than
your pop-Christian eschatology.

Amen! As I said, they know what happened,
because I have made sure to educate them.
But the best they will offer, because their doctrine
is the most important thing to them, is that 70 AD
figures in there somehow, but not in any big way,
even though what Jesus Himself said was going
to happen, did happen in 70 AD.

And they do not care at all, to investigate.
They are too busy looking at the news,
to see what, today, they can claim is a
fulfillment of the Bible prophecies! And
of course, this "fulfillment" changes with
each new story on the news, while they
never once admit that they were wrong!

And so now, we an official of the EU, being
called "The AntiChrist" and the EU being
labeled by Dispy's, as the "revived Roman
Empire", even though it is no such thing.
But they label it that and so, they make up
their own "prophecies", which wrap around
the news and so, when the next step happens,
they say, "See! We were right! It is about us!".

And they don't even realize what they're doing!

They act as if God had been waiting all these
years, to finally have them come along, and
open their Bible, so that now He can reveal
the rest of His plans

And they actually do believe that! Many of them
actually do believe that the church was not capable
of understanding it, until Darby came along! And
I'm not kidding! Furthermore, some of them, once
it has been proved to them that yes, both Jesus
and the Apostles preached a return of Christ
within that generation, they actually say that
they were wrong!

Can you imagine how big someone's head has to be,
to think that they're right and Jesus and the Apostles
were wrong?!

And when it is shown what heresy this is, they try to
claim, "Well, it isn't that important of an issue anyway",
because they cannot support that claim and they
know it!

And this they say, after spending so much time arguing
about it! So they think they can save face by exiting the
discussion at that point, to pretend that it isn't that
important anyway.

And where do they go? to another thread, to start
telling people how "The prophecies of the Bible are
being fulfilled right before our very eyes!".

You know, because it isn't that important of an issue
anyway, right? :)

--

Pastor Dave

People are so afraid to reject doctrine, that they just
don't give a damn what the Bible actually says! (:

On 18 May 2007 23:57:13 -0700, gatekeeper
<gatekeeper.eastg...@hotmail.com> claimed:

On May 18, 11:45 pm, "Mistylien"
<yardhol...@charter.net> wrote:

( 1 Cor 3:16 )
this is not a temple that could be torn down.
(1 Cor 6:19 )
Nor is this a temple that can be torn down.
Neither were built by human hands.

I am not sure what your referring to by quoting
this from 1 Cor? What is your point?

I think her point is to show that the Temple
of God now, is the church and each individual
believer.

You see, while the Dispy's wait for a physical
third Temple *building* (which Scripture never
says there would be), they missed the boat,
because Scripture tells us that the third Temple
is the church and each individual believer,
which is what makes up the church.

If we read each passage, instead of this interpretation
of hers, then we can see that.

M, that reference to those who said,
"Let us remove hence!" Who was this
great multitude that was heard speaking?

Give BCV so we also can see where you
are getting that info from.

This is from the record of Josephus, and others,
as written in the first post by Dave in the thread.
No BCV specifically!

I don't know what "BVC" means, but I did give
a specific reference. And both Josephus, a Jew
and Tacitus, a Roman who was not a Christian
and had no interest in making them look powerful.

You are correct to say that I have a very short vision
of its fulfillment. That is why I believe it was all
completed back there in 70 AD. I find no reason
to look for ongoing fulfillments up to and beyond
the current time!

The sad part is, that even though THEY KNOW
that the events of 70 AD fulfilled the prophecies,
they intentionally ignore it and try to claim it
has yet to happen. Some are even willing to
admit that it happened, but claim it will happen
again. Now what is this, if not ego and vanity?

This would be like talking about anything that
has happened in history and then turning around
and either saying that it hasn't happened yet,
or that it will happen again. Why? Because it
has to be about US TODAY! I mean, didn't you
know that Jesus came in the 1st century, because
He really wanted to ignore everyone He looked at
and spoke to, because He really wanted to talk
right past them, so He could talk to us?! I mean,
why would He come in the 21st century, if He
wanted to talk to the people in the 21st century!
It makes so much more sense to address people
in the 21st century, by coming in the 1st century
and talking right past those folks! I mean, if I
wanted to communicate with someone in the
41st century, I would definitely make sure to
gather up some people and talk to them as if
I was addressing them and actually be ignoring
them, without telling them, you know, so that
I could make sure to confuse them! After all,
God is the author of confusion, isn't He? :)

What occurred in 70 AD, precluded anything
happening in the Future from the view of
prophecies previously recorded regarding
national Israel. That does not mean that
we have no concept of the future, as some
may foolishly claim, just that national Israel
does not figure into any prophecy subsequent
to 70 AD.

Amen! And Paul told us clearly, that it is
the church that is "the Israel of God" now,
in Galatians 6:15-16.

I do not agree with you when you say,

AS I read it that whole chapter is a lot
of prophesies and it covers a long
lenght of time even up to "today".

Yes it even inclueded 70 AD but also
a lot more and a long way beyond
70 AD as well.

That you agree it included 70 AD is a step in
the right direction, but where do you get that
it has anything to do with us today, other than
your pop-Christian eschatology.

Amen! As I said, they know what happened,
because I have made sure to educate them.
But the best they will offer, because their doctrine
is the most important thing to them, is that 70 AD
figures in there somehow, but not in any big way,
even though what Jesus Himself said was going
to happen, did happen in 70 AD.

And they do not care at all, to investigate.
They are too busy looking at the news,
to see what, today, they can claim is a
fulfillment of the Bible prophecies! And
of course, this "fulfillment" changes with
each new story on the news, while they
never once admit that they were wrong!

And so now, we an official of the EU, being
called "The AntiChrist" and the EU being
labeled by Dispy's, as the "revived Roman
Empire", even though it is no such thing.
But they label it that and so, they make up
their own "prophecies", which wrap around
the news and so, when the next step happens,
they say, "See! We were right! It is about us!".

And they don't even realize what they're doing!

They act as if God had been waiting all these
years, to finally have them come along, and
open their Bible, so that now He can reveal
the rest of His plans

And they actually do believe that! Many of them
actually do believe that the church was not capable
of understanding it, until Darby came along! And
I'm not kidding! Furthermore, some of them, once
it has been proved to them that yes, both Jesus
and the Apostles preached a return of Christ
within that generation, they actually say that
they were wrong!

Can you imagine how big someone's head has to be,
to think that they're right and Jesus and the Apostles
were wrong?!

And when it is shown what heresy this is, they try to
claim, "Well, it isn't that important of an issue anyway",
because they cannot support that claim and they
know it!

And this they say, after spending so much time arguing
about it! So they think they can save face by exiting the
discussion at that point, to pretend that it isn't that
important anyway.

And where do they go? to another thread, to start
telling people how "The prophecies of the Bible are
being fulfilled right before our very eyes!".

You know, because it isn't that important of an issue
anyway, right? :)

--

Pastor Dave

People are so afraid to reject doctrine, that they just
don't give a damn what the Bible actually says! (: