Religions > Bible > Christ is God, Owd is a damned heretic and deceiver
| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Randy" |
| Date: |
15 Dec 2006 11:20:23 AM |
| Object: |
Christ is God, Owd is a damned heretic and deceiver |
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with
God <2316>, and the Word was God <2316>.
The same word for God is used in both cases. When the Bible
says Christ is God, it means the same thing as when it says
God the Father is God.
Yet Owd claims Christ became a "God", when the Father made Him
a "Ruler":
On Sat, 25 Nov 2006 14:53:02 -0800,
in article <12mhiak483plc4e@corp.supernews.com>,
oldwetdog <g.aedhealic@yahoo.com> wrote:
**********************************************************
First, you mis-comprehend the meaning of the word "God."
The Term "God" means "Ruler," not "being" (although it is
sometimes used in that way.)
GOD The Father is that Being which Fathered One Son.
HE, GOD The Father, gave all power to His Only Son and sat Him on
HIS Throne -- Therefore the Son is Ruler (God) of His Kingdom.
**********************************************************
Christ did not sit on the right hand of the Father's throne
until after He died for our sins, rose, and ascended to
heaven:
Hebrews 1:3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the
express image of his person, and upholding all things by the
word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat
down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
Hebrews 10:12 But this man, after he had offered one
sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of
God;
Yet John 1:1 says in the beginning, Christ already "was"
"God". When Owd claims that the word "God", as applied to
Christ, only means delegated "Ruler", he denies that Christ
was already God, in the beginning, in the same exact sense God
the Father is God. Thus, Owd denies the true deity of Christ,
when he pretends to agree Christ is "God". This makes him a
damned heretic and deceiver.
--
Christ died for our sins, and God raised Him from the dead.
Rely on this work alone to escape hell and receive eternal
life (Jn. 3:16; 1 Cor. 15:1-3; Eph. 2:8-10; 2 Thess. 1:8-9).
.
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| User: "Zadok" |
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| Title: Re: Christ is God, Owd is a damned heretic and deceiver |
15 Dec 2006 12:02:51 PM |
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"Rany" <whose pulpit caught on fire> wrote in message ...
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with
God <2316>, and the Word was God <2316>.
The same word for God is used in both cases. When the Bible
says Christ is God, it means the same thing as when it says
God the Father is God.
Mark 13: 32 says - But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the
angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
How can God the Father know something that the Son does not know, if they
are both God??
It's simple folks - THEY CAN'T!!
Mark 13: 32 is confirmed by Matthew 24: 36, when Jesus says only his FATHER
KNOWS!!
In both cases we have Jesus himself talking!!
In John, we have John talking, and John is the only disciple who tells us
that we are all the sons of God.
It really is that simple.
Don't let clowns like Rany lead you astray!!
.
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| User: "oldwetdog" |
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| Title: Re: Christ is God, Owd is a damned heretic and deceiver |
15 Dec 2006 09:52:03 PM |
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Zadok wrote:
"Rany" <whose pulpit caught on fire> wrote in message ...
John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with
God <2316>, and the Word was God <2316>.
The same word for God is used in both cases. When the Bible
says Christ is God, it means the same thing as when it says
God the Father is God.
Mark 13: 32 says - But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the
angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.
How can God the Father know something that the Son does not know, if they
are both God??
It's simple folks - THEY CAN'T!!
Mark 13: 32 is confirmed by Matthew 24: 36, when Jesus says only his FATHER
KNOWS!!
In both cases we have Jesus himself talking!!
In John, we have John talking, and John is the only disciple who tells us
that we are all the sons of God.
It really is that simple.
Don't let clowns like Rany lead you astray!!
Zadok, I think you are a fruitcake... you know that...
Now, what I'm thinking is, that you are a fruitcake wasting energy
replying to someone who is hysterical...
A ding-a-ling replying to hysteria...
O.K., So Randy quotes Gen 1 and John 1, and neither one proves his pagan
doctrine...
Is Randy more hysterical than you?
ding, ding...
ding, ding...
Hello?
HELLO, Is there any mind out there?
.
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| User: "Zadok" |
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| Title: Re: Christ is God, Owd is a damned heretic and deceiver |
16 Dec 2006 05:18:14 AM |
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"oldwetdog" <> wrote in message
Zadok, I think you are a fruitcake... you know that...
What you think is hardly relevant!!
Now, what I'm thinking is, that you are a fruitcake wasting energy
replying to someone who is hysterical...
A ding-a-ling replying to hysteria...
O.K., So Randy quotes Gen 1 and John 1, and neither one proves his pagan
doctrine...
Is Randy more hysterical than you?
ding, ding...
ding, ding...
Hello?
HELLO, Is there any mind out there?
Dog, the three biggest stooges on the newsgroup are you, a dog still wet
behind the ears, pasta Davey, who ate a giant waffle and became a flower,
and rany, who's pulpit caught on fire.
I often read your posts more as comic book material, because it is a hoot.
If we took the three of you and combined you all, there might be one clue
between the three of you.
rany and davey have me killfiled, which in itself is a hoot.
Because every now and then davey will read one of my posts, and reply, all
the while maintaining that he has me killfiled. So like his posts, you know
he is lying.
rany ignores me, as he has no answers for anything I post.
And you, total clown.
Smile
.
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| User: "oldwetdog" |
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| Title: Re: Christ is God, Owd is a damned heretic and deceiver |
16 Dec 2006 10:50:05 AM |
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Zadok wrote:
"oldwetdog" <> wrote in message
Zadok, I think you are a fruitcake... you know that...
What you think is hardly relevant!!
Of course what I think is relevant.
If it weren't, you wouldn't comment.
Now, what I'm thinking is, that you are a fruitcake wasting energy
replying to someone who is hysterical...
A ding-a-ling replying to hysteria...
O.K., So Randy quotes Gen 1 and John 1, and neither one proves his pagan
doctrine...
Is Randy more hysterical than you?
ding, ding...
ding, ding...
Hello?
HELLO, Is there any mind out there?
Dog, the three biggest stooges on the newsgroup are you, a dog still wet
behind the ears, pasta Davey, who ate a giant waffle and became a flower,
and rany, who's pulpit caught on fire.
I often read your posts more as comic book material, because it is a hoot.
Thanks for reading!
If we took the three of you and combined you all, there might be one clue
between the three of you.
rany and davey have me killfiled, which in itself is a hoot.
Because every now and then davey will read one of my posts, and reply, all
the while maintaining that he has me killfiled. So like his posts, you know
he is lying.
rany ignores me, as he has no answers for anything I post.
And you, total clown.
Smile
Funny!
You call me the clown? then why am I laughing at your antics?
But you are right about Pasta Davie... he says he's killfiled someone,
then complains about what they are saying about him...?
What, Dave killfiles you -- and that means you're not supposed to post
what you think about him or his lies? Duh
-grin-
.
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| User: "Zadok" |
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| Title: Re: Christ is God, Owd is a damned heretic and deceiver |
16 Dec 2006 12:17:04 PM |
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"oldwetdog" <> wrote in message
What you think is hardly relevant!!
Of course what I think is relevant.
If it weren't, you wouldn't comment.
Listen Dog, I read comic books for a laugh!!
Not to learn anything.
It is the same with what you write. It is for laughs.
One certainly can't learn from you!!
Dog, the three biggest stooges on the newsgroup are you, a dog still wet
behind the ears, pasta Davey, who ate a giant waffle and became a
flower,
and rany, who's pulpit caught on fire.
I often read your posts more as comic book material, because it is a
hoot.
Thanks for reading!
Thanks for making me laugh!!
If we took the three of you and combined you all, there might be one
clue
between the three of you.
rany and davey have me killfiled, which in itself is a hoot.
Because every now and then davey will read one of my posts, and reply,
all
the while maintaining that he has me killfiled. So like his posts, you
know
he is lying.
rany ignores me, as he has no answers for anything I post.
And you, total clown.
Smile
Funny!
You call me the clown? then why am I laughing at your antics?
My guess would be, that you are simple minded.
I guess that, because everything you post confirms it!!
But you are right about Pasta Davie... he says he's killfiled someone,
then complains about what they are saying about him...?
What, Dave killfiles you -- and that means you're not supposed to post
what you think about him or his lies? Duh
Ah, Davey is not all that bad. Actually he is right that Jesus did return in
70AD!!
But after that, he goes off the deep end!!
Much like yourself in that regard!!
Smile.
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| User: "oldwetdog" |
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| Title: Re: Christ is God, Owd is a damned heretic and deceiver |
16 Dec 2006 02:33:10 PM |
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Zadok wrote:
"oldwetdog" <> wrote in message
What you think is hardly relevant!!
Of course what I think is relevant.
If it weren't, you wouldn't comment.
Listen Dog, I read comic books for a laugh!!
Not to learn anything.
It is the same with what you write. It is for laughs.
One certainly can't learn from you!!
Dog, the three biggest stooges on the newsgroup are you, a dog still wet
behind the ears, pasta Davey, who ate a giant waffle and became a
flower,
and rany, who's pulpit caught on fire.
I often read your posts more as comic book material, because it is a
hoot.
Thanks for reading!
Thanks for making me laugh!!
If we took the three of you and combined you all, there might be one
clue
between the three of you.
rany and davey have me killfiled, which in itself is a hoot.
Because every now and then davey will read one of my posts, and reply,
all
the while maintaining that he has me killfiled. So like his posts, you
know
he is lying.
rany ignores me, as he has no answers for anything I post.
And you, total clown.
Smile
Funny!
You call me the clown? then why am I laughing at your antics?
My guess would be, that you are simple minded.
I guess that, because everything you post confirms it!!
But you are right about Pasta Davie... he says he's killfiled someone,
then complains about what they are saying about him...?
What, Dave killfiles you -- and that means you're not supposed to post
what you think about him or his lies? Duh
Ah, Davey is not all that bad. Actually he is right that Jesus did return in
70AD!!
But after that, he goes off the deep end!!
Much like yourself in that regard!!
Smile.
-grin-
.
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| User: "Azaliah" |
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| Title: Re: Christ is God, Owd is a damned heretic and deceiver |
17 Dec 2006 04:37:02 AM |
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On Sat, 16 Dec 2006 12:33:10 -0800, while bungee jumping,
oldwetdog <g.aedhealic@yahoo.com> shouted thusly:
Zadok wrote:
-grin-
It's nice to know that you find so much fun with Zadok,
a God hater, who makes fun of the Bible. But then again,
you hate the Bible too.
So let's see, so far. you love those who hate the Bible
and hate those who love the Bible.
Yea, you're a real Christian rock!
--
Azaliah (ats-al-yaw'-hoo) "Jah has reserved"
<((>< <((>< <((><
"Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth."
- John 17:17
..
.
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| User: "Zadok" |
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| Title: Re: Christ is God, Owd is a damned heretic and deceiver |
17 Dec 2006 05:14:42 AM |
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"Azaliah" < who was pasta Davey, then ate a giant waffle and became a
flower> wrote in message
It's nice to know that you find so much fun with Zadok,
a God hater, who makes fun of the Bible. But then again,
you hate the Bible too.
So let's see, so far. you love those who hate the Bible
and hate those who love the Bible.
Yea, you're a real Christian rock!
God hater??
Makes fun of the bible??
Show us examples!!
But of course a LIAR like you can't do it.
What I hate is your idiotic twisting of what the bible says!!
.
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| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
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| Title: Re: Christ is God, Owd is a damned heretic and deceiver |
17 Dec 2006 10:41:11 AM |
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"Zadok" <nobler@accesswave.ca> wrote in message
news:CE9hh.75976$rv4.5600@edtnps90...
"Azaliah" < who was pasta Davey, then ate a giant waffle and became a
flower> wrote in message
It's nice to know that you find so much fun with Zadok,
a God hater, who makes fun of the Bible. But then again,
you hate the Bible too.
So let's see, so far. you love those who hate the Bible
and hate those who love the Bible.
Yea, you're a real Christian rock!
God hater??
Makes fun of the bible??
Show us examples!!
But of course a LIAR like you can't do it.
What I hate is your idiotic twisting of what the bible says!!
Too many people seem to think that if you disagree with their take on what
the Bible says, you 'must' disagree with the Bible, doncha know only they
understand the Bible 'correctly' ???
.
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| User: "Ben Mitts" |
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| Title: Re: Christ is God, Owd is a damned heretic and deceiver |
17 Dec 2006 01:47:26 PM |
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Glenn (Christian Mystic) wrote:
"Zadok" <nobler@accesswave.ca> wrote in message
news:CE9hh.75976$rv4.5600@edtnps90...
"Azaliah" < who was pasta Davey, then ate a giant waffle and became a
flower> wrote in message
It's nice to know that you find so much fun with Zadok,
a God hater, who makes fun of the Bible. But then again,
you hate the Bible too.
So let's see, so far. you love those who hate the Bible
and hate those who love the Bible.
Yea, you're a real Christian rock!
God hater??
Makes fun of the bible??
Show us examples!!
But of course a LIAR like you can't do it.
What I hate is your idiotic twisting of what the bible says!!
Too many people seem to think that if you disagree with their take on what
the Bible says, you 'must' disagree with the Bible, doncha know only they
understand the Bible 'correctly' ???
Then the obvious is how do non believers
know more than believers, at least their
claim is such, because they tell us we are
so wrong all the time.
--
Peace!
Sincerely,
Ben mitts :)
"Feed your faith,.... Starve your doubts"
From The Word of God: And as Moses lifted up the serpent
in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted
up; that whoever believes may in Him have eternal life."
Similarly, God so loved the world, that He gave His only
begotten Son, that who ever believes in Him should not
perish, but Have eternal life. Another: God did not send
the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the
world should be saved through Him. He spoke elsewhere:
I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me
shall live, even if he dies, and everyone who lives and
believes in Me shall never die. Believe you this?
Therefore we may, as many will to do so: "But as many as
received Him, to them He gave the right to become child-
ren of God, even to those who believe in His name,"
(John 1:12)
.
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| User: "Sensi" |
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| Title: Re: Christ is God, Owd is a damned heretic and deceiver |
18 Dec 2006 05:44:29 PM |
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Ben Mitts wrote:
Glenn (Christian Mystic) wrote:
"Zadok" <nobler@accesswave.ca> wrote in message
news:CE9hh.75976$rv4.5600@edtnps90...
"Azaliah" < who was pasta Davey, then ate a giant waffle and became a
flower> wrote in message
It's nice to know that you find so much fun with Zadok,
a God hater, who makes fun of the Bible. But then again,
you hate the Bible too.
So let's see, so far. you love those who hate the Bible
and hate those who love the Bible.
Yea, you're a real Christian rock!
God hater??
Makes fun of the bible??
Show us examples!!
But of course a LIAR like you can't do it.
What I hate is your idiotic twisting of what the bible says!!
Too many people seem to think that if you disagree with their take on
what the Bible says, you 'must' disagree with the Bible, doncha know
only they understand the Bible 'correctly' ???
Then the obvious is how do non believers
know more than believers, at least their
claim is such, because they tell us we are
so wrong all the time.
Sensi:
Have you ever considered that believing has such a wide
range of variations that it would be ridiculous to place
boundaries on what is or is not a belief.
I don't believe you know all there is to know about beliefs.
Does that make you a non believer?
Do you believe in the power of love?
Where do you in your belief draw a line to where you
*believe* love ceases to exist?
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| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
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| Title: Re: Christ is God, Owd is a damned heretic and deceiver |
17 Dec 2006 03:17:23 PM |
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I am speechless :-)
"Ben Mitts" <benmitts@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:45859ED0.1050207@sbcglobal.net...
Glenn (Christian Mystic) wrote:
"Zadok" <nobler@accesswave.ca> wrote in message
news:CE9hh.75976$rv4.5600@edtnps90...
"Azaliah" < who was pasta Davey, then ate a giant waffle and became a
flower> wrote in message
It's nice to know that you find so much fun with Zadok,
a God hater, who makes fun of the Bible. But then again,
you hate the Bible too.
So let's see, so far. you love those who hate the Bible
and hate those who love the Bible.
Yea, you're a real Christian rock!
God hater??
Makes fun of the bible??
Show us examples!!
But of course a LIAR like you can't do it.
What I hate is your idiotic twisting of what the bible says!!
Too many people seem to think that if you disagree with their take on
what the Bible says, you 'must' disagree with the Bible, doncha know only
they understand the Bible 'correctly' ???
Then the obvious is how do non believers
know more than believers, at least their
claim is such, because they tell us we are
so wrong all the time.
--
Peace!
Sincerely,
Ben mitts :)
"Feed your faith,.... Starve your doubts"
From The Word of God: And as Moses lifted up the serpent
in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted
up; that whoever believes may in Him have eternal life."
Similarly, God so loved the world, that He gave His only
begotten Son, that who ever believes in Him should not
perish, but Have eternal life. Another: God did not send
the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the
world should be saved through Him. He spoke elsewhere:
I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me
shall live, even if he dies, and everyone who lives and
believes in Me shall never die. Believe you this?
Therefore we may, as many will to do so: "But as many as
received Him, to them He gave the right to become child-
ren of God, even to those who believe in His name,"
(John 1:12)
.
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| User: "Ben Mitts" |
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| Title: Re: Christ is God, Owd is a damned heretic and deceiver |
17 Dec 2006 03:40:06 PM |
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Glenn (Christian Mystic) wrote:
I am speechless :-)
"Ben Mitts" <benmitts@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:45859ED0.1050207@sbcglobal.net...
Glenn (Christian Mystic) wrote:
"Zadok" <nobler@accesswave.ca> wrote in message
news:CE9hh.75976$rv4.5600@edtnps90...
"Azaliah" < who was pasta Davey, then ate a giant waffle and became a
flower> wrote in message
It's nice to know that you find so much fun with Zadok,
a God hater, who makes fun of the Bible. But then again,
you hate the Bible too.
So let's see, so far. you love those who hate the Bible
and hate those who love the Bible.
Yea, you're a real Christian rock!
God hater??
Makes fun of the bible??
Show us examples!!
But of course a LIAR like you can't do it.
What I hate is your idiotic twisting of what the bible says!!
Too many people seem to think that if you disagree with their take on
what the Bible says, you 'must' disagree with the Bible, doncha know only
they understand the Bible 'correctly' ???
Then the obvious is how do non believers
know more than believers, at least their
claim is such, because they tell us we are
so wrong all the time.
Why!
--
Peace!
Sincerely,
Ben mitts :)
"Feed your faith,.... Starve your doubts"
From The Word of God: And as Moses lifted up the serpent
in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted
up; that whoever believes may in Him have eternal life."
Similarly, God so loved the world, that He gave His only
begotten Son, that who ever believes in Him should not
perish, but Have eternal life. Another: God did not send
the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the
world should be saved through Him. He spoke elsewhere:
I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me
shall live, even if he dies, and everyone who lives and
believes in Me shall never die. Believe you this?
Therefore we may, as many will to do so: "But as many as
received Him, to them He gave the right to become child-
ren of God, even to those who believe in His name,"
(John 1:12)
.
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| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
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| Title: Re: Christ is God, Owd is a damned heretic and deceiver |
18 Dec 2006 07:20:24 PM |
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You left me with nothing to say, but I had to let you know that I read your
post....
"Ben Mitts" <benmitts@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:4585B937.7050006@sbcglobal.net...
Glenn (Christian Mystic) wrote:
I am speechless :-)
"Ben Mitts" <benmitts@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:45859ED0.1050207@sbcglobal.net...
Glenn (Christian Mystic) wrote:
"Zadok" <nobler@accesswave.ca> wrote in message
news:CE9hh.75976$rv4.5600@edtnps90...
"Azaliah" < who was pasta Davey, then ate a giant waffle and became a
flower> wrote in message
It's nice to know that you find so much fun with Zadok,
a God hater, who makes fun of the Bible. But then again,
you hate the Bible too.
So let's see, so far. you love those who hate the Bible
and hate those who love the Bible.
Yea, you're a real Christian rock!
God hater??
Makes fun of the bible??
Show us examples!!
But of course a LIAR like you can't do it.
What I hate is your idiotic twisting of what the bible says!!
Too many people seem to think that if you disagree with their take on
what the Bible says, you 'must' disagree with the Bible, doncha know
only they understand the Bible 'correctly' ???
Then the obvious is how do non believers
know more than believers, at least their
claim is such, because they tell us we are
so wrong all the time.
Why!
--
Peace!
Sincerely,
Ben mitts :)
"Feed your faith,.... Starve your doubts"
From The Word of God: And as Moses lifted up the serpent
in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted
up; that whoever believes may in Him have eternal life."
Similarly, God so loved the world, that He gave His only
begotten Son, that who ever believes in Him should not
perish, but Have eternal life. Another: God did not send
the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the
world should be saved through Him. He spoke elsewhere:
I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me
shall live, even if he dies, and everyone who lives and
believes in Me shall never die. Believe you this?
Therefore we may, as many will to do so: "But as many as
received Him, to them He gave the right to become child-
ren of God, even to those who believe in His name,"
(John 1:12)
.
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| User: "psalmsmith" |
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| Title: Re: Christ is God, Owd is a damned heretic and deceiver |
17 Dec 2006 02:16:08 PM |
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In article <45859ED0.1050207@sbcglobal.net>,
Ben Mitts <benmitts@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Glenn (Christian Mystic) wrote:
"Zadok" <nobler@accesswave.ca> wrote in message
news:CE9hh.75976$rv4.5600@edtnps90...
"Azaliah" < who was pasta Davey, then ate a giant waffle and became a
flower> wrote in message
It's nice to know that you find so much fun with Zadok,
a God hater, who makes fun of the Bible. But then again,
you hate the Bible too.
So let's see, so far. you love those who hate the Bible
and hate those who love the Bible.
Yea, you're a real Christian rock!
God hater??
Makes fun of the bible??
Show us examples!!
But of course a LIAR like you can't do it.
What I hate is your idiotic twisting of what the bible says!!
Too many people seem to think that if you disagree with their take on what
the Bible says, you 'must' disagree with the Bible, doncha know only they
understand the Bible 'correctly' ???
Then the obvious is how do non believers
know more than believers, at least their
claim is such, because they tell us we are
so wrong all the time.
OK, doctrinally subjective terms: please define "believers" and "non
believers" to the extent of at what point their input becomes valueless.
How can a Gentile value what you have seen in God, if you cannot value
what he has seen in God? He is one God! There is not one "Gentile God"
and another "Jewish God." If you and he have both seen God, then you
have seen the same God! Edifying one another /in this/, results in
tremendous growth towards eternity.
If you want him to value what you have seen, then you first have to
value what he has seen. It is as simple as, 'you reap what you sow..."
.
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| User: "Zadok" |
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| Title: Re: Christ is God, Owd is a damned heretic and deceiver |
18 Dec 2006 06:37:51 PM |
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"psalmsmith" <> wrote in message
How can a Gentile value what you have seen in God, if you cannot value
what he has seen in God? He is one God! There is not one "Gentile God" >
and another "Jewish God." If you and he have both seen God, then you
have seen the same God! Edifying one another /in this/, results in
tremendous growth towards eternity.
And using your logic!!
If there is only one creator!! Then there can be only one creator God.
Thus from the beginning of time, any civilization that had a creator God,
must have been worshipping the ONE GOD!!
And that is the fallacy of christianity!! Their God trumps other Gods.
Smile.
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| User: "psalmsmith" |
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| Title: agents of God and divinity. |
18 Dec 2006 10:33:05 PM |
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In article <zvGhh.88144$rv4.37347@edtnps90>,
"Zadok" <nobler@accesswave.ca> wrote:
"psalmsmith" <> wrote in message
How can a Gentile value what you have seen in God, if you cannot value
what he has seen in God? He is one God! There is not one "Gentile God" >
and another "Jewish God." If you and he have both seen God, then you
have seen the same God! Edifying one another /in this/, results in
tremendous growth towards eternity.
And using your logic!!
If there is only one creator!! Then there can be only one creator God.
Thus from the beginning of time, any civilization that had a creator God,
must have been worshipping the ONE GOD!!
And that is the fallacy of christianity!! Their God trumps other Gods.
Smile.
Simply because Messiah is the agent of creation, does not make Baal the
creator, neither does it make Marduk the slayer of the creature of
creation. "all gods" are not equally valid, there is ONE God, and he Is.
.
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| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
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| Title: Re: Christ is God, Owd is a damned heretic and deceiver |
17 Dec 2006 03:18:22 PM |
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Well said.
"psalmsmith" <psalmsmith@blyahoook.com> wrote in message
news:psalmsmith-E37F50.15160817122006@news.giganews.com...
In article <45859ED0.1050207@sbcglobal.net>,
Ben Mitts <benmitts@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Glenn (Christian Mystic) wrote:
"Zadok" <nobler@accesswave.ca> wrote in message
news:CE9hh.75976$rv4.5600@edtnps90...
"Azaliah" < who was pasta Davey, then ate a giant waffle and became a
flower> wrote in message
It's nice to know that you find so much fun with Zadok,
a God hater, who makes fun of the Bible. But then again,
you hate the Bible too.
So let's see, so far. you love those who hate the Bible
and hate those who love the Bible.
Yea, you're a real Christian rock!
God hater??
Makes fun of the bible??
Show us examples!!
But of course a LIAR like you can't do it.
What I hate is your idiotic twisting of what the bible says!!
Too many people seem to think that if you disagree with their take on
what
the Bible says, you 'must' disagree with the Bible, doncha know only
they
understand the Bible 'correctly' ???
Then the obvious is how do non believers
know more than believers, at least their
claim is such, because they tell us we are
so wrong all the time.
OK, doctrinally subjective terms: please define "believers" and "non
believers" to the extent of at what point their input becomes valueless.
How can a Gentile value what you have seen in God, if you cannot value
what he has seen in God? He is one God! There is not one "Gentile God"
and another "Jewish God." If you and he have both seen God, then you
have seen the same God! Edifying one another /in this/, results in
tremendous growth towards eternity.
If you want him to value what you have seen, then you first have to
value what he has seen. It is as simple as, 'you reap what you sow..."
.
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| User: "Ben Mitts" |
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| Title: Re: Christ is God, Owd is a damned heretic and deceiver |
17 Dec 2006 03:38:16 PM |
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psalmsmith wrote:
In article <45859ED0.1050207@sbcglobal.net>,
Ben Mitts <benmitts@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Glenn (Christian Mystic) wrote:
"Zadok" <nobler@accesswave.ca> wrote in message
news:CE9hh.75976$rv4.5600@edtnps90...
"Azaliah" < who was pasta Davey, then ate a giant waffle and became a
flower> wrote in message
It's nice to know that you find so much fun with Zadok,
a God hater, who makes fun of the Bible. But then again,
you hate the Bible too.
So let's see, so far. you love those who hate the Bible
and hate those who love the Bible.
Yea, you're a real Christian rock!
God hater??
Makes fun of the bible??
Show us examples!!
But of course a LIAR like you can't do it.
What I hate is your idiotic twisting of what the bible says!!
Too many people seem to think that if you disagree with their take on what
the Bible says, you 'must' disagree with the Bible, doncha know only they
understand the Bible 'correctly' ???
Then the obvious is how do non believers
know more than believers, at least their
claim is such, because they tell us we are
so wrong all the time.
OK, doctrinally subjective terms: please define "believers" and "non
believers" to the extent of at what point their input becomes valueless.
How can a Gentile value what you have seen in God, if you cannot value
what he has seen in God? He is one God! There is not one "Gentile God"
and another "Jewish God." If you and he have both seen God, then you
have seen the same God! Edifying one another /in this/, results in
tremendous growth towards eternity.
If you want him to value what you have seen, then you first have to
value what he has seen. It is as simple as, 'you reap what you sow..."
You gotta be kidding?!!
--
Peace!
Sincerely,
Ben mitts :)
"Feed your faith,.... Starve your doubts"
From The Word of God: And as Moses lifted up the serpent
in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted
up; that whoever believes may in Him have eternal life."
Similarly, God so loved the world, that He gave His only
begotten Son, that who ever believes in Him should not
perish, but Have eternal life. Another: God did not send
the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the
world should be saved through Him. He spoke elsewhere:
I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me
shall live, even if he dies, and everyone who lives and
believes in Me shall never die. Believe you this?
Therefore we may, as many will to do so: "But as many as
received Him, to them He gave the right to become child-
ren of God, even to those who believe in His name,"
(John 1:12)
.
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| User: "psalmsmith" |
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| Title: Is it April 1st and I just forgot? |
18 Dec 2006 11:59:40 PM |
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In article <4585B8CA.40305@sbcglobal.net>,
Ben Mitts <benmitts@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
psalmsmith wrote:
In article <45859ED0.1050207@sbcglobal.net>,
Ben Mitts <benmitts@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Glenn (Christian Mystic) wrote:
"Zadok" <nobler@accesswave.ca> wrote in message
news:CE9hh.75976$rv4.5600@edtnps90...
"Azaliah" < who was pasta Davey, then ate a giant waffle and became a
flower> wrote in message
It's nice to know that you find so much fun with Zadok,
a God hater, who makes fun of the Bible. But then again,
you hate the Bible too.
So let's see, so far. you love those who hate the Bible
and hate those who love the Bible.
Yea, you're a real Christian rock!
God hater??
Makes fun of the bible??
Show us examples!!
But of course a LIAR like you can't do it.
What I hate is your idiotic twisting of what the bible says!!
Too many people seem to think that if you disagree with their take on what
the Bible says, you 'must' disagree with the Bible, doncha know only they
understand the Bible 'correctly' ???
Then the obvious is how do non believers
know more than believers, at least their
claim is such, because they tell us we are
so wrong all the time.
OK, doctrinally subjective terms: please define "believers" and "non
believers" to the extent of at what point their input becomes valueless.
How can a Gentile value what you have seen in God, if you cannot value
what he has seen in God? He is one God! There is not one "Gentile God"
and another "Jewish God." If you and he have both seen God, then you
have seen the same God! Edifying one another /in this/, results in
tremendous growth towards eternity.
If you want him to value what you have seen, then you first have to
value what he has seen. It is as simple as, 'you reap what you sow..."
You gotta be kidding?!!
For heaven's sake, why?
--
Peace!
Sincerely,
Ben mitts :)
"Feed your faith,.... Starve your doubts"
From The Word of God: And as Moses lifted up the serpent
in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted
up; that whoever believes may in Him have eternal life."
Similarly, God so loved the world, that He gave His only
begotten Son, that who ever believes in Him should not
perish, but Have eternal life. Another: God did not send
the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the
world should be saved through Him. He spoke elsewhere:
I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me
shall live, even if he dies, and everyone who lives and
believes in Me shall never die. Believe you this?
Therefore we may, as many will to do so: "But as many as
received Him, to them He gave the right to become child-
ren of God, even to those who believe in His name,"
(John 1:12)
.
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| User: "oldwetdog" |
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| Title: Re: Christ is God, Owd is a damned heretic and deceiver |
17 Dec 2006 03:46:28 PM |
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psalmsmith wrote:
In article <45859ED0.1050207@sbcglobal.net>,
Ben Mitts <benmitts@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Glenn (Christian Mystic) wrote:
"Zadok" <nobler@accesswave.ca> wrote in message
news:CE9hh.75976$rv4.5600@edtnps90...
"Azaliah" < who was pasta Davey, then ate a giant waffle and became a
flower> wrote in message
It's nice to know that you find so much fun with Zadok,
a God hater, who makes fun of the Bible. But then again,
you hate the Bible too.
So let's see, so far. you love those who hate the Bible
and hate those who love the Bible.
Yea, you're a real Christian rock!
God hater??
Makes fun of the bible??
Show us examples!!
But of course a LIAR like you can't do it.
What I hate is your idiotic twisting of what the bible says!!
Too many people seem to think that if you disagree with their take on what
the Bible says, you 'must' disagree with the Bible, doncha know only they
understand the Bible 'correctly' ???
Then the obvious is how do non believers
know more than believers, at least their
claim is such, because they tell us we are
so wrong all the time.
OK, doctrinally subjective terms: please define "believers" and "non
believers" to the extent of at what point their input becomes valueless.
The problem here, is that trinitarians deny your claim of being
'Christian' because you deny their doctrine.
It is not that a hundred or more theologians, (see below) including
trinitarians, have confessed and acknowledged that "Trinity" is NOT in
the Bible...
It is NOT that one can not accept God the Father, His Holy Spirit and
the only begotten son, Jesus Christ as is described in Scripture...
No, if you don't accept their doctrine you are not Christian....
------------
John 11:24 Martha saith unto him, I know that he shall rise again in
the resurrection at the last day.
25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that
believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest
thou this?
27 She saith unto him, Yea, Lord: I believe that thou art the Christ,
the Son of God, which should come into the world.
-+-
Jesus did not inform Martha that she had to believe in Trinity Doctrine.
-------
The following IS Scripture
1) There is only one God (Deut. 6:4)
2) The Father is God (1 Cor. 8:6)
3) The Son is God (John 1:1)
4) The Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4).
What I believe
I believe there is only one God (Deut. 6:4)
I believe the Father is God (1 Cor. 8:6)
I believe the Son is God (John 1:1)
I believe the Holy Spirit is God (Acts 5:3-4).
What I do NOT believe is the Doctrine of the Trinity.
You can explain that doctrine of a triune god any way you want: like,
"a single being of three persona," Or, "three persons in a single being."
By any definition, the Doctrine of a triune god is NOT found in God's Word.
-----
A) "TRINITY" IS NOT IN GODS WORD
In the thread "TO REFUTE THE TRIUNE GOD," one of the posters has
confessed that,
Quote:
"Early Christians attempting to reconcile [scripture describing God, the
Son of God and Spirit of God] developed the doctrine of the Trinity as a
way of explaining them collectively."
End quote.
http://tinyurl.com/zaq7s
This admission that "... developed the doctrine of the Trinity" is PROOF
that the doctrine of "trinity" is NOT in the Bible, BUT WAS "DEVELOPED"
(formulated) by the mind of man in an attempt to explain scripture which
describes God, The Son of God and the Holy Spirit. That they needed to
"develop an explanation" is a confession that they did NOT comprehend
the subject they were attempting to explain.
-----
B) Greek Mystic Philosophy
This same poster then states,
quote:
The Bible makes a number of claims, and the doctrine of the Trinity is
an explanation of those claims.
end quote.
http://tinyurl.com/elwac
This is yet another confession that 'trintiy' doctrine is NOT in God's
Word, but that it is "an explanation." In fact, this doctrine is a Greek
Mythological explanation of pagan three headed gods "painted over"
(added into) the Bible in an attempt to explain the infinite God to the
finite mind of man.
-----
C) BUILDING BLOCKS OF FALSE DOCTRINE
This poster goes on to attempt to support the "development" of a
doctrine which is NOT in the Bible by stating,
Quote:
The foundational building blocks of the doctrine are right there in the
Bible.
End quote.
http://tinyurl.com/he5ab
Yet, again, this is an admission that the doctrine of the 'trinity' is
NOT in the Bible, but that its "building blocks" are... So you claim the
"building blocks" are in the Bible, but admit the doctrine is not.
The same 'building blocks' were used in Jonestown in Africa and by the
Branch Dividians' in Waco Texas, et al, ad infinitum in nauseous.
The "building blocks" found in the Bible have been used to build any
number of false doctrines ... and 'trinity' is just one more.
-----
D) FALSE DOCTRINE DERIVED FROM THE BIBLE
Almost all Christians are aware of the many false doctrines some false
prophet claims "is in the Bible." That someone can "derive" or "deduce"
doctrine from the Bible is NOT proof that it is sound doctrine. Yet
this poster makes exactly that claim,
Quote:
The doctrine of the Trinity is derived from the Bible. The Bible makes a
number of claims, and the doctrine of the Trinity pieces those claims
together.
End quote.
http://tinyurl.com/hr8s9
That a doctrine is "derived" FROM the Bible is proof that that doctrine
is not IN the Bible.
-----
E) FALSE DOCTRINE IMPLIED
If there is anything further needed to prove that some doctrine is NOT
found in God's Word, it is the claim that "The Bible implies the
doctrine of the Trinity."
http://tinyurl.com/hr8s9
-----
F) Athanasius has also admitted that the triune gods was added to the
church after the Bible was completed -- and that those who believe what
IS in the Bible will be judged for what they find IN God's Word:
see.
http://tinyurl.com/edrvk
or try
http://tinyurl.com/zdg6k
-----
CONCLUSION
The false doctrine of the "trinity" was "formulated" and or "developed"
during the three or four hundred years after the passing of the Apostles
-- after the Bible was complete.
The false doctrine of the triune god was institutionalized by the pagan
man/god Constantine in AD 325. The "trinity" is a Greek Metaphysical
explanation of pagan triune gods 'painted over' (added into) scripture.
The idea that God is a "triune god" is not found in the Word of God.
owd
-+-
http://xprt.net/~sertvitum/main/trinity.html
..
There are _over_ 700 Bible references to God, the Spirit of God, the Son
of God, and "My Father", ALL of which prove the doctrine of the triune
god is false.
.
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| User: "psalmsmith" |
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| Title: Do Trinitarians consider Psalmsmith a Christian? |
17 Dec 2006 04:00:46 PM |
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In article <12obelo6vs4cg53@corp.supernews.com>,
oldwetdog <g.aedhealic@yahoo.com> wrote:
psalmsmith wrote:
In article <45859ED0.1050207@sbcglobal.net>,
Ben Mitts <benmitts@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Glenn (Christian Mystic) wrote:
"Zadok" <nobler@accesswave.ca> wrote in message
news:CE9hh.75976$rv4.5600@edtnps90...
"Azaliah" < who was pasta Davey, then ate a giant waffle and became a
flower> wrote in message
It's nice to know that you find so much fun with Zadok,
a God hater, who makes fun of the Bible. But then again,
you hate the Bible too.
So let's see, so far. you love those who hate the Bible
and hate those who love the Bible.
Yea, you're a real Christian rock!
God hater??
Makes fun of the bible??
Show us examples!!
But of course a LIAR like you can't do it.
What I hate is your idiotic twisting of what the bible says!!
Too many people seem to think that if you disagree with their take on
what
the Bible says, you 'must' disagree with the Bible, doncha know only they
understand the Bible 'correctly' ???
Then the obvious is how do non believers
know more than believers, at least their
claim is such, because they tell us we are
so wrong all the time.
OK, doctrinally subjective terms: please define "believers" and "non
believers" to the extent of at what point their input becomes valueless.
The problem here, is that trinitarians deny your claim of being
'Christian' because you deny their doctrine.
Really? Would you care to test that theory?
I have made it no secret that I do not hold the doctrine of the Trinity.
What do you say, Trinitarians, am I a Christian? 8-)
It is not that a hundred or more theologians, (see below) including
trinitarians, have confessed and acknowledged that "Trinity" is NOT in
the Bible...
It is NOT that one can not accept God the Father, His Holy Spirit and
the only begotten son, Jesus Christ as is described in Scripture...
No, if you don't accept their doctrine you are not Christian....
------------
You have stated your hypothesis, for which we now await evidence:
.
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| User: "Samuel W. Heywood" |
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| Title: Re: Do Trinitarians consider Psalmsmith a Christian? |
18 Dec 2006 10:02:33 AM |
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On Sun, 17 Dec 2006, psalmsmith wrote:
In article <12obelo6vs4cg53@corp.supernews.com>,
oldwetdog <g.aedhealic@yahoo.com> wrote:
psalmsmith wrote:
In article <45859ED0.1050207@sbcglobal.net>,
Ben Mitts <benmitts@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Glenn (Christian Mystic) wrote:
"Zadok" <nobler@accesswave.ca> wrote in message
news:CE9hh.75976$rv4.5600@edtnps90...
"Azaliah" < who was pasta Davey, then ate a giant waffle and became a
flower> wrote in message
<snip>
What do you say, Trinitarians, am I a Christian? 8-)
No, if you don't accept their doctrine you are not Christian....
All Christians ought to simply just accept a catch-all and
all-inclusive definition of Christian which would define one as
any person who endevours to follow and uphold the teachings of
Jesus according to one's understanding.
If all Christians were smart enough to accept an all-inclusive
definition of Christian the various sects would not be quarreling
so much among themselves and accusing each other of not being
Christians.
Sam Heywood
-- Message handled by Pine, Version 4.62
.
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| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
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| Title: Re: Do Trinitarians consider Psalmsmith a Christian? |
23 Dec 2006 07:23:17 PM |
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Agreed
"Samuel W. Heywood" <sheywood@MyRealBox.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.NEB.4.62.0612181046350.13863@sdf.lonestar.org...
On Sun, 17 Dec 2006, psalmsmith wrote:
In article <12obelo6vs4cg53@corp.supernews.com>,
oldwetdog <g.aedhealic@yahoo.com> wrote:
psalmsmith wrote:
In article <45859ED0.1050207@sbcglobal.net>,
Ben Mitts <benmitts@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Glenn (Christian Mystic) wrote:
"Zadok" <nobler@accesswave.ca> wrote in message
news:CE9hh.75976$rv4.5600@edtnps90...
"Azaliah" < who was pasta Davey, then ate a giant waffle and became
a
flower> wrote in message
<snip>
What do you say, Trinitarians, am I a Christian? 8-)
No, if you don't accept their doctrine you are not Christian....
All Christians ought to simply just accept a catch-all and
all-inclusive definition of Christian which would define one as
any person who endevours to follow and uphold the teachings of
Jesus according to one's understanding.
If all Christians were smart enough to accept an all-inclusive
definition of Christian the various sects would not be quarreling
so much among themselves and accusing each other of not being
Christians.
Sam Heywood
-- Message handled by Pine, Version 4.62
.
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| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
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| Title: Re: Do Trinitarians consider Psalmsmith a Christian? |
20 Dec 2006 03:18:48 PM |
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Agreed :-)
"Samuel W. Heywood" <sheywood@MyRealBox.com> wrote in message
news:Pine.NEB.4.62.0612181046350.13863@sdf.lonestar.org...
On Sun, 17 Dec 2006, psalmsmith wrote:
In article <12obelo6vs4cg53@corp.supernews.com>,
oldwetdog <g.aedhealic@yahoo.com> wrote:
psalmsmith wrote:
In article <45859ED0.1050207@sbcglobal.net>,
Ben Mitts <benmitts@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Glenn (Christian Mystic) wrote:
"Zadok" <nobler@accesswave.ca> wrote in message
news:CE9hh.75976$rv4.5600@edtnps90...
"Azaliah" < who was pasta Davey, then ate a giant waffle and became
a
flower> wrote in message
<snip>
What do you say, Trinitarians, am I a Christian? 8-)
No, if you don't accept their doctrine you are not Christian....
All Christians ought to simply just accept a catch-all and
all-inclusive definition of Christian which would define one as
any person who endevours to follow and uphold the teachings of
Jesus according to one's understanding.
If all Christians were smart enough to accept an all-inclusive
definition of Christian the various sects would not be quarreling
so much among themselves and accusing each other of not being
Christians.
Sam Heywood
-- Message handled by Pine, Version 4.62
.
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| User: "john w" |
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| Title: Re: Do Trinitarians consider Psalmsmith a Christian? |
17 Dec 2006 10:32:14 PM |
|
|
x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 17:00:46 -0500, psalmsmith
<psalmsmith@blyahoook.com> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
In article <12obelo6vs4cg53@corp.supernews.com>,
oldwetdog <g.aedhealic@yahoo.com> wrote:
psalmsmith wrote:
In article <45859ED0.1050207@sbcglobal.net>,
Ben Mitts <benmitts@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Glenn (Christian Mystic) wrote:
"Zadok" <nobler@accesswave.ca> wrote in message
news:CE9hh.75976$rv4.5600@edtnps90...
"Azaliah" < who was pasta Davey, then ate a giant waffle and became a
flower> wrote in message
It's nice to know that you find so much fun with Zadok,
a God hater, who makes fun of the Bible. But then again,
you hate the Bible too.
So let's see, so far. you love those who hate the Bible
and hate those who love the Bible.
Yea, you're a real Christian rock!
God hater??
Makes fun of the bible??
Show us examples!!
But of course a LIAR like you can't do it.
What I hate is your idiotic twisting of what the bible says!!
Too many people seem to think that if you disagree with their take on
what
the Bible says, you 'must' disagree with the Bible, doncha know only they
understand the Bible 'correctly' ???
Then the obvious is how do non believers
know more than believers, at least their
claim is such, because they tell us we are
so wrong all the time.
OK, doctrinally subjective terms: please define "believers" and "non
believers" to the extent of at what point their input becomes valueless.
The problem here, is that trinitarians deny your claim of being
'Christian' because you deny their doctrine.
Really? Would you care to test that theory?
I have made it no secret that I do not hold the doctrine of the Trinity.
What do you say, Trinitarians, am I a Christian? 8-)
It is not that a hundred or more theologians, (see below) including
trinitarians, have confessed and acknowledged that "Trinity" is NOT in
the Bible...
It is NOT that one can not accept God the Father, His Holy Spirit and
the only begotten son, Jesus Christ as is described in Scripture...
No, if you don't accept their doctrine you are not Christian....
------------
You have stated your hypothesis, for which we now await evidence:
Sorry, psalmsmith. I have not been following along. I therefore do not
know what you believe or don't.
Yet I gather that the discussion at the present concerns
Christian/scripture teaching related to the nature of Deity / God, and
the reality or non-reality of the teaching called "Trinitarian" or
more accurately (some believe) the teaching regarding the "Tri-Unity".
What exactly is your question, or what is it that you believe
regarding the true nature of the Biblical God?
I might also say that many claim to believe in the infallibility of
the Bible, yet I can find NO single reference to "The Bible" in the
Bible.
That said, the mere fact that the word "trinity" does not appear in
scripture does not negate the truth that the Bible teaches the
concepts we encapsulate in the label "Trinity."
What say you about God's nature and the teaching called "The Trinity?"
I for one do not say categorically that one must accept the label
"Trinity" so long as one DOES accept all the teachings that fall under
that label:
There is God the Father
There is God the Son
There is God the Holy Spirit
The three are essentially interchangeable. That is, the Son is the
Father, the Father is the Son, and the Holy Spirit is both.
John 1 says the Son existed from the beginning, was WITH God, and WAS
GOD.
John also says that God the Father/Son took flesh. (Jesus)
Thomas saw His scars and called Him "God" (The Father)
Colossians 2 says of Jesus Christ (in Him dwelt the fullness of the
Godhead (Father/Son/Holy Spirit) in flesh. (all that God can be,
Jesus Christ was and is)
john w
.
|
|
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| User: "psalmsmith" |
|
| Title: Re: Do Trinitarians consider Psalmsmith a Christian? |
18 Dec 2006 06:04:28 AM |
|
|
In article <u16co2prornomtp6kg3e41bgcdrjibbqch@4ax.com>,
john w <johnw<no>@yoo.how> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 17:00:46 -0500, psalmsmith
<psalmsmith@blyahoook.com> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
In article <12obelo6vs4cg53@corp.supernews.com>,
oldwetdog <g.aedhealic@yahoo.com> wrote:
psalmsmith wrote:
In article <45859ED0.1050207@sbcglobal.net>,
Ben Mitts <benmitts@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Glenn (Christian Mystic) wrote:
"Zadok" <nobler@accesswave.ca> wrote in message
news:CE9hh.75976$rv4.5600@edtnps90...
"Azaliah" < who was pasta Davey, then ate a giant waffle and became a
flower> wrote in message
It's nice to know that you find so much fun with Zadok,
a God hater, who makes fun of the Bible. But then again,
you hate the Bible too.
So let's see, so far. you love those who hate the Bible
and hate those who love the Bible.
Yea, you're a real Christian rock!
God hater??
Makes fun of the bible??
Show us examples!!
But of course a LIAR like you can't do it.
What I hate is your idiotic twisting of what the bible says!!
Too many people seem to think that if you disagree with their take on
what
the Bible says, you 'must' disagree with the Bible, doncha know only
they
understand the Bible 'correctly' ???
Then the obvious is how do non believers
know more than believers, at least their
claim is such, because they tell us we are
so wrong all the time.
OK, doctrinally subjective terms: please define "believers" and "non
believers" to the extent of at what point their input becomes valueless.
The problem here, is that trinitarians deny your claim of being
'Christian' because you deny their doctrine.
Really? Would you care to test that theory?
I have made it no secret that I do not hold the doctrine of the Trinity.
What do you say, Trinitarians, am I a Christian? 8-)
It is not that a hundred or more theologians, (see below) including
trinitarians, have confessed and acknowledged that "Trinity" is NOT in
the Bible...
It is NOT that one can not accept God the Father, His Holy Spirit and
the only begotten son, Jesus Christ as is described in Scripture...
No, if you don't accept their doctrine you are not Christian....
------------
You have stated your hypothesis, for which we now await evidence:
Sorry, psalmsmith. I have not been following along. I therefore do not
know what you believe or don't.
Yet I gather that the discussion at the present concerns
Christian/scripture teaching related to the nature of Deity / God, and
the reality or non-reality of the teaching called "Trinitarian" or
more accurately (some believe) the teaching regarding the "Tri-Unity".
What exactly is your question, or what is it that you believe
regarding the true nature of the Biblical God?
I might also say that many claim to believe in the infallibility of
the Bible, yet I can find NO single reference to "The Bible" in the
Bible.
That said, the mere fact that the word "trinity" does not appear in
scripture does not negate the truth that the Bible teaches the
concepts we encapsulate in the label "Trinity."
What say you about God's nature and the teaching called "The Trinity?"
I for one do not say categorically that one must accept the label
"Trinity" so long as one DOES accept all the teachings that fall under
that label:
There is God the Father
There is God the Son
There is God the Holy Spirit
All very true,
The three are essentially interchangeable. That is, the Son is the
Father, the Father is the Son, and the Holy Spirit is both.
Now, I would have a hard time agreeing with the idea that they were
"interchangeable" in the same way that I'd have a problem with saying
that one human's mind, heart, and soul were likewise interchangeable.
I see God as one being; in simile, the Father is like God's heart, the
Son is like His mind, and the Spirit is like His soul. In a more
realistic description, the Father is the source of all that is God, the
Son is His expression, the image of all that God has expressed, and the
Holy Spirit is that which moves in them and everywhere, in their will.
This means that God is one being, and not three; the three aspects of
His person are wholly integral. Not really interchangeable, because if
you were able to "remove" one of the three aspects altogether, what
remains would no longer be God.
John 1 says the Son existed from the beginning, was WITH God, and WAS
GOD.
John also says that God the Father/Son took flesh. (Jesus)
Thomas saw His scars and called Him "God" (The Father)
Colossians 2 says of Jesus Christ (in Him dwelt the fullness of the
Godhead (Father/Son/Holy Spirit) in flesh. (all that God can be,
Jesus Christ was and is)
john w
.
|
|
|
| User: "john w" |
|
| Title: Re: Do Trinitarians consider Psalmsmith a Christian? |
18 Dec 2006 07:26:43 AM |
|
|
x-no-archive: yes
On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 07:04:28 -0500, psalmsmith
<psalmsmith@blyahoook.com> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
In article <u16co2prornomtp6kg3e41bgcdrjibbqch@4ax.com>,
john w <johnw<no>@yoo.how> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 17:00:46 -0500, psalmsmith
<psalmsmith@blyahoook.com> wrote:
© 2006 John Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this
article may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
In article <12obelo6vs4cg53@corp.supernews.com>,
oldwetdog <g.aedhealic@yahoo.com> wrote:
psalmsmith wrote:
In article <45859ED0.1050207@sbcglobal.net>,
Ben Mitts <benmitts@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
Glenn (Christian Mystic) wrote:
"Zadok" <nobler@accesswave.ca> wrote in message
news:CE9hh.75976$rv4.5600@edtnps90...
"Azaliah" < who was pasta Davey, then ate a giant waffle and became a
flower> wrote in message
It's nice to know that you find so much fun with Zadok,
a God hater, who makes fun of the Bible. But then again,
you hate the Bible too.
So let's see, so far. you love those who hate the Bible
and hate those who love the Bible.
Yea, you're a real Christian rock!
God hater??
Makes fun of the bible??
Show us examples!!
But of course a LIAR like you can't do it.
What I hate is your idiotic twisting of what the bible says!!
Too many people seem to think that if you disagree with their take on
what
the Bible says, you 'must' disagree with the Bible, doncha know only
they
understand the Bible 'correctly' ???
Then the obvious is how do non believers
know more than believers, at least their
claim is such, because they tell us we are
so wrong all the time.
OK, doctrinally subjective terms: please define "believers" and "non
believers" to the extent of at what point their input becomes valueless.
The problem here, is that trinitarians deny your claim of being
'Christian' because you deny their doctrine.
Really? Would you care to test that theory?
I have made it no secret that I do not hold the doctrine of the Trinity.
What do you say, Trinitarians, am I a Christian? 8-)
It is not that a hundred or more theologians, (see below) including
trinitarians, have confessed and acknowledged that "Trinity" is NOT in
the Bible...
It is NOT that one can not accept God the Father, His Holy Spirit and
the only begotten son, Jesus Christ as is described in Scripture...
No, if you don't accept their doctrine you are not Christian....
------------
You have stated your hypothesis, for which we now await evidence:
Sorry, psalmsmith. I have not been following along. I therefore do not
know what you believe or don't.
Yet I gather that the discussion at the present concerns
Christian/scripture teaching related to the nature of Deity / God, and
the reality or non-reality of the teaching called "Trinitarian" or
more accurately (some believe) the teaching regarding the "Tri-Unity".
What exactly is your question, or what is it that you believe
regarding the true nature of the Biblical God?
I might also say that many claim to believe in the infallibility of
the Bible, yet I can find NO single reference to "The Bible" in the
Bible.
That said, the mere fact that the word "trinity" does not appear in
scripture does not negate the truth that the Bible teaches the
concepts we encapsulate in the label "Trinity."
What say you about God's nature and the teaching called "The Trinity?"
I for one do not say categorically that one must accept the label
"Trinity" so long as one DOES accept all the teachings that fall under
that label:
There is God the Father
There is God the Son
There is God the Holy Spirit
All very true,
Then we are off to a very good beginning.
Beware, as we continue, of one VITAL truth. I have listened to The
Scholars of our generation. They have been my pastors, the men who
have translated from the ancient texts the Bibles we use today.
I bring this up to say this: I have been in churches where we had
half-a-dozen Ph D ( "Dr"s) as our "senior pastors". I've been in
Sunday evening, Tuesday evening, Thursday evening Bible studies where
the congregation (all 5,000 of us) were INVITED to "pick the brains of
the elders / "scholars". And since we had such scholarship available
"on staff" those meetings were PACKED to the rafters.
And I have heard NUMEROUS "friendly arguments" break out over "exactly
who and what is "God?""
God-- being infinite-- is ABSOLUTELY BEYOND finite man's
understanding, reckoning, descriptions, or WORDS.
When you try to define God... "God is".. you are doomed to failure.
Yet... we can know things about Him from the text He left us. The
Bible.
And so all I do is to COMPARE THE VARIOUS PASSAGES and TRY to form
some "majority determination" on SOME ASPECTS/CHARACTERISTICS of Who
God is.
The three are essentially interchangeable. That is, the Son is the
Father, the Father is the Son, and the Holy Spirit is both.
Now, I would have a hard time agreeing with the idea that they were
"interchangeable" in the same way that I'd have a problem with saying
that one human's mind, heart, and soul were likewise interchangeable.
Kindly try to not challenge a concept that is quite scriptural just
because you have an issue with the words, and then give me concepts of
men.
Try to give me scripture if you are going to disagree.
Let me put it this way. We say, The Father is the Creator. I don't
think ANYONE would argue with that one. God the Father created all
that is.
Yet, look at Genesis 1:2. And the Spirit of God (the Holy Spirit)
hovered over the water.
The Holy Spirit was there, and If He was there, I can PROMISE you
He was not merely WATCHING. He was PARTICIPATING in Creation.
So now, we have the Father Creator, and we have the Holy Spirit the
Creator.
Then, in John 1, we have John claiming that God (the Holy Spirit) told
HIM that The Son was INTRICATELY involved in creation!
Sounds like God the Son, God the Father, and God the Holy Spirit are
terms that can be "interchanged."
Oops! That is what I call "interchangeable". NOT that we can DISPENSE
with either. How do we "hack away" part of God?
Try to see a different meaning to what I said than merely HUMAN
interpretation.
What I meant by "interchangeable" is that anything the Father can do,
the Son can do. Any quality the Father has, the Son has.
IF the Father is God we have (algebraic expression)
Father = God
therefore God = Father
Son = God
therefore God = Son
Holy Spirit = God
therefore, God = Holy Spirit
Or,
Apple = Apple
Apple = Apple
Apple = Apple
in this way of expressing it
If God = Father
If God = Son
Then Son = Father.
simple math.
IF any of the three = God
Then the Three = each other.
I see God as one being; in simile, the Father is like God's heart, the
Son is like His mind, and the Spirit is like His soul. In a more
realistic description, the Father is the source of all that is God, the
Son is His expression,
I have this problem with what you have said.
Yes, the Son is the Image of God the invisible. Yet HE is more.
Colossians 1 says "He (Son) is the IMAGE of the invisible..."
Then Colossians 2 says: For in Him (Jesus Christ) dwelt all the
FULLNESS of the Godhead (Father/Son/Holy Spirit) in flesh.
All that God is capable of being in HUMAN FORM, was Jesus Christ.
Jesus Christ was / is God the Father, God the Son, and God the
Holy Spirit in flesh.
Now, look at this:
What did Jesus call Himself on several occasions: "The Son of Man."
What title did Jesus accept from Peter on one occasion: "You are The
Son of the Living God." To shorten it, Peter called Him
"The Son of God." or, as we discussed earlier, "God the Son."
Well, then, what did Thomas call Him? "My Lord, and my GOD!"
Jesus had at LEAST those 3 titles. And accepted all 3.
Son of Man, Son of God, God.
He was all 3.
And what did He call Himself to a Jew one day?
"Before Abraham was, I AM."
A CLEAR reference to Yhwh (the Father) calling Himself "I AM"
to Moses. Jesus knew that! And He took for Himself the
Title "I AM" that is reserved for God the Father."
So, if you are going to disagree with my analysis, kindly do so
with scripture!
the image of all that God has expressed, and the
Holy Spirit is that which moves in them and everywhere, in their will.
No. "God is Spirit." "God is Spirit (Holy Spirit) and those who
would worship Him must worship him in spirit and in Truth."
This means that God is one being, and not three;
Kindly do not superimpose false meaning on a label. I know of NO
Christian who believe in the Trinity who believes that the Trinity
means "3 gods" or even "3 beings".
AGAIN, you are trying to reduce an AWESOME concept, and a feeble
label (Trinity) to what YOU can understand.
the three aspects of
His person are wholly integral. Not really interchangeable, because if
you were able to "remove" one of the three aspects altogether, what
remains would no longer be God.
Interesting turn of words, "if you were able to remove..."
I never said anything about "removing" anything. And you continue to
try to reduce God to terms YOU can understand, which for the rest of
your life will be an exercise in futility.
v v v v v I also note with interest that you didn't
even deal with these scriptures!
v v v v v
John 1 says the Son existed from the beginning, was WITH God, and WAS
GOD.
John also says that God the Father/Son took flesh. (Jesus)
Thomas saw His scars and called Him "God" (The Father)
Colossians 2 says of Jesus Christ (in Him dwelt the fullness of the
Godhead (Father/Son/Holy Spirit) in flesh. (all that God can be,
Jesus Christ was and is)
john w
.
|
|
|
| User: "psalmsmith" |
|
| Title: Re: Do Trinitarians consider Psalmsmith a Christian? |
18 Dec 2006 09:32:31 PM |
|
|
In article <re4do2tinfp3lqouadcdu4ba5nb6t6t4j8@4ax.com>, john w
<johnw<no>@yoo.how> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes On Mon, 18 Dec 2006 07:04:28 -0500, psalmsmith
<psalmsmith@blyahoook.com> wrote: © 2006 John Weatherly; all
rights reserved; no portion of this article may be used
elsewhere without express written consent of the author
In article <u16co2prornomtp6kg3e41bgcdrjibbqch@4ax.com>,
john w <johnw<no>@yoo.how> wrote:
x-no-archive: yes On Sun, 17 Dec 2006 17:00:46 -0500,
psalmsmith <psalmsmith@blyahoook.com> wrote: © 2006 John
Weatherly; all rights reserved; no portion of this article
may be used elsewhere without express written consent of the
author
In article <12obelo6vs4cg53@corp.supernews.com>,
oldwetdog <g.aedhealic@yahoo.com> wrote:
<-bandwidth-snip->
You have stated your hypothesis, for which we now await
evidence:
Sorry, psalmsmith. I have not been following along. I
therefore do not know what you believe or don't.
Yet I gather that the discussion at the present concerns
Christian/scripture teaching related to the nature of Deity /
God, and the reality or non-reality of the teaching called
"Trinitarian" or more accurately (some believe) the teaching
regarding the "Tri-Unity".
What exactly is your question, or what is it that you believe
regarding the true nature of the Biblical God?
I might also say that many claim to believe in the
infallibility of the Bible, yet I can find NO single
reference to "The Bible" in the Bible.
That said, the mere fact that the word "trinity" does not
appear in scripture does not negate the truth that the Bible
teaches the concepts we encapsulate in the label "Trinity."
What say you about God's nature and the teaching called "The
Trinity?"
I for one do not say categorically that one must accept the
label "Trinity" so long as one DOES accept all the teachings
that fall under that label: There is God | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
