Christians ready to refute 'Da Vinci Code' movie



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Topic: Religions > Bible
User: "Steve Dufour"
Date: 22 Mar 2006 09:10:32 AM
Object: Christians ready to refute 'Da Vinci Code' movie
Christians ready to refute 'Da Vinci Code' movie
Rather than organize protests or boycotts, Evangelicals and Catholics
are mobilizing 'truth squads.'
By Jane Lampman | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor
In a world accepting of docudramas and reality TV shows that aren't
real, how does one counter a blockbuster movie whose theme challenges
the orthodox religious history of the Western world?
That's the task facing Christians already distressed by Dan Brown's
wildly popular novel, "The Da Vinci Code," and his claim that the
thriller is based on historical facts.
With sales of more than 40 million, the book has become a cultural
phenomenon. Unless the copyright-infringement trial in London (which
now awaits the judge's decision) brings an injunction against use of
the material, the May release of the film starring Tom Hanks will
surely magnify its global impact.
Rather than organize protests or boycotts - steps taken in the past
against controversial films - Evangelicals and Catholics instead are
mobilizing "truth squads." They're producing books, websites, TV
documentaries, DVDs, and study guides. Some hope to use the film as a
"teachable moment" that could turn the occasion to their advantage.
"Our task is to be the missionary to the unbelievers," says the Rev.
James Garlow, pastor of Skyline Wesleyan Church in San Diego, Calif.
He's developed a four-phase strategy for churches leading up to the
film's release.
Yet others suggest there's more involved than a question of historical
accuracy. They say part of the book's appeal is that it raises deeper
issues about the nature of Christianity that many people, including
devout Christians, want to talk about.
Eric Plumer, a theology professor at the University of Scranton, a
Catholic institution in Pennsylvania, has been surprised by the intense
interest he's encountered when giving talks about "The Da Vinci Code"
in public libraries, colleges, and senior-citizen centers.
"The turnouts have been mainly standing room only," he says. "Some want
to know how to refute the book; some want their belief in it
strengthened.... Even if people can't wholly accept what Dan Brown has
to say, they feel he has touched on something they want to discuss."
Dr. Plumer is now writing a book on why the novel has struck such a
chord despite dozens and dozens of books published to debunk its
claims.
Those claims include that Jesus married Mary Magdalene and their
bloodline still survives; that the idea of Jesus' divinity did not
exist until Emperor Constantine formed the Council of Nicea to
establish it; and that the Roman Catholic Church has conspired to hide
this throughout history, even to the point of murder.
The novel is first and foremost a fantastical murder mystery, an
intriguing page turner that grabs even those wholly opposed to its
thesis. It catches people's imaginations, many say, because it involves
a conspiracy.
"Americans love a conspiracy theory," says Lynn Garrett, religion
editor at Publishers Weekly. "It also tapped into people's
disillusionment with the Catholic Church following the sexual abuse
scandals."
Some say Mr. Brown's controversial approach to history plays on
people's limited knowledge.
"One reason it works so well on readers is that he tends to begin with
a kernel of something historical and then quickly spins off into
fiction - or you could say falsehood, since he represents it as
something researched," says Timothy Beal, professor of religion at Case
Western Reserve University in Cleveland.
Professor Beal used Brown's novel last fall in a course on the New
Testament and early Christianity, illustrating pop culture interest in
the topic. "Half of the students had already read the book and many
believed it," he says.
Yet people agree, too, that the novel appeals because it offers a
different way of seeing Christian tradition, particularly issues of
patriarchy and women in the early church. This appeal has helped spur
new subcategories in the publishing business, Ms. Garrett says, with
each season bringing new books on Mary Magdalene and on what's now
called "alternative Christianity."
For Catholics, the primary concern is countering the historical charges
as well as the representation of the church and the lay Catholic group,
Opus Dei. The US Conference of Catholic Bishops is mounting a campaign
tied to the film, with an extensive website launched this month and a
TV documentary. "Jesus Decoded," presenting Catholic teaching on
Christ, will be offered to NBC-TV affiliates for broadcast the week the
movie opens. In addition, Opus Dei, which is controversial even among
Catholics for its secrecy, has begun a PR campaign.
William Donohue, president of the Catholic League for Religious and
Civil Rights, has pressed Sony Pictures and director Ron Howard to put
a disclaimer at the start of the film saying it is fiction. "We have a
deceitful writer who has said it's based on historical facts, and a
co-producer who has called the movie 'conservatively anti-Catholic,' "
says Mr. Donohue.
The filmmakers have not responded to his request. Instead, they've
encouraged Christians to discuss the issues on a Sony-sponsored
website: www.thedavincidialogue.com. A number of prominent Evangelicals
are providing essays, while others suggest they're being co-opted.
The concern is global: The Russian Orthodox Church has complained about
the film, and Evangelicals in South Korea are even trying to keep it
out of theaters. One Christian leader, according to Yonghap News
Agency, has compared it to the Danish cartoons denigrating Islam.
Evangelicals in the US plan to launch their own website in late April.
Backed by an anonymous philanthropist and hosted by Westminster
Theological Seminary (WTS) in Philadelphia, the project also involves
people close to Billy Graham.
"While we recognize the right to present a good yarn, we're concerned
the mix of fact and fiction is sure to lead many to question the
Bible's integrity, its message, and Christianity's impact on history,"
says William Edgar, a professor of apologetics at WTS. "We want to help
the curious viewer ... set the record straight, or at least put some
doubt into the doubting."
Some church leaders aim to equip their congregations to handle the
claims. Wheatland Presbyterian Church in Lancaster, Pa., plans a
seven-week Sunday School class beginning in April to cover key issues
raised by the novel. "We also hope to have an evening event for the
community ... and encourage our members to invite neighbors to
home-group discussions," says the Rev. Bruce Mawhinney, senior pastor.
Others, particularly leaders who have written debunking books, are more
ambitious - packaging books, DVDs, and outreach materials. Dr. Garlow,
author of "The Da Vinci Codebreaker," hopes his strategy for churches
will lead people to throw Da Vinci parties, or gatherings at work to
discuss the film with "unbelievers."
Yet some say Evangelicals are less likely than others to have even read
the novel. Moviegoers who have read it may have other interests in
mind.
"In our sort of postsecular society, there is a question out there
among many: 'Is this all there is?' " Case Western's Beal says. "Given
the socioeconomic realities and the established institutions, there's a
desire to discover something more that's been there, but that we didn't
know. A longing for something spiritual that is not possessed or
controlled by established institutional religion."
.

User: "Patty Winter"

Title: Re: Christians ready to refute 'Da Vinci Code' movie 22 Mar 2006 12:30:47 PM

By Jane Lampman | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

In a world accepting of docudramas and reality TV shows that aren't
real, how does one counter a blockbuster movie whose theme challenges
the orthodox religious history of the Western world?
That's the task facing Christians already distressed by Dan Brown's
wildly popular novel, "The Da Vinci Code," and his claim that the
thriller is based on historical facts.
Those claims include that Jesus married Mary Magdalene and their
bloodline still survives; that the idea of Jesus' divinity did not
exist until Emperor Constantine formed the Council of Nicea to
establish it; and that the Roman Catholic Church has conspired to hide
this throughout history, even to the point of murder.

NONE of those aspects of the book are claimed by Brown to be factual.
The frontispiece, after mentions of the Priory of Sion and Opus Dei,
says, "All descriptions of artwork, architecture, documents, and secret
rituals in this novel are accurate." It claims nothing about the
authenticity of the historical theories listed above. People who are
arguing against the book on that basis either never bothered to read
the frontispiece, or can't tell the difference between fact and fiction.
Patty
.
User: "The PhAnToM"

Title: Re: Christians ready to refute 'Da Vinci Code' movie 22 Mar 2006 02:46:35 PM
Patty Winter wrote:

By Jane Lampman | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

In a world accepting of docudramas and reality TV shows that aren't
real, how does one counter a blockbuster movie whose theme challenges
the orthodox religious history of the Western world?
That's the task facing Christians already distressed by Dan Brown's
wildly popular novel, "The Da Vinci Code," and his claim that the
thriller is based on historical facts.


Those claims include that Jesus married Mary Magdalene and their
bloodline still survives; that the idea of Jesus' divinity did not
exist until Emperor Constantine formed the Council of Nicea to
establish it; and that the Roman Catholic Church has conspired to hide
this throughout history, even to the point of murder.


NONE of those aspects of the book are claimed by Brown to be factual.
The frontispiece, after mentions of the Priory of Sion and Opus Dei,
says, "All descriptions of artwork, architecture, documents, and secret
rituals in this novel are accurate." It claims nothing about the
authenticity of the historical theories listed above. People who are
arguing against the book on that basis either never bothered to read
the frontispiece, or can't tell the difference between fact and fiction.

And yet Dan Brown himself said that by the end of completing his novel,
he became a believer in the conspiracy. His conspiracy is based upon
theories put forth in a non-fiction book. The plot is fiction, but the
underlying assertions, he, and many people, really believe.
Pat Conroy novels are fiction, too, but most of the stuff he has
written is based upon his own childhood.
.

User: ""

Title: Re: Christians ready to refute 'Da Vinci Code' movie 23 Mar 2006 02:33:51 AM
Patty Winter wrote:

By Jane Lampman | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

In a world accepting of docudramas and reality TV shows that aren't
real, how does one counter a blockbuster movie whose theme challenges
the orthodox religious history of the Western world?
That's the task facing Christians already distressed by Dan Brown's
wildly popular novel, "The Da Vinci Code," and his claim that the
thriller is based on historical facts.

Distressed? Hardly. Irritated? Indeed, as was intended.

Those claims include that Jesus married Mary Magdalene and their
bloodline still survives; that the idea of Jesus' divinity did not
exist until Emperor Constantine formed the Council of Nicea to
establish it; and that the Roman Catholic Church has conspired to hide
this throughout history, even to the point of murder.


NONE of those aspects of the book are claimed by Brown to be factual.

All of them are being treated as fact routinely online, no doubt by
people who read the book.

People who are arguing against the book on that basis either never
bothered to read the frontispiece, or can't tell the difference between
fact and fiction.

Isn't it curious how the evil effects of the book are apparently, in
the eyes of its apologists, the fault of those who criticise it?
But we have all seen this stale old marketting line before.
All the best,
Roger Pearse
.
User: "Midjis"

Title: Re: Christians ready to refute 'Da Vinci Code' movie 23 Mar 2006 05:22:56 AM

Distressed? Hardly. Irritated? Indeed, as was intended.

If Christians become 'irritated' at every book, film, article or argument
that questions the 'truth' of their faith then they must have a pretty
lousy quality of life. In much the same way, those who embrace science
cannot afford to get 'irritated' every time a Christian spouts on about
how evolution is impossible and that the world was really created by
magic by an omnipotent God that nevertheless took six whole days to do
the job.
You need not accept what either book claims. Others will, perhaps - but
there will always be those who would rather embrace groundless fiction
and call it fact that look for evidence.

NONE of those aspects of the book are claimed by Brown to be factual.


All of them are being treated as fact routinely online, no doubt by
people who read the book.

Anyone who takes any part of the book to be 'factual' has badly
misunderstood. The same can be said for the Holy Blood and the Holy
Grail - which is at least marketed as potential 'fact'. Both books are
based on the initial premise that Jesus existed as a historical figure -
yet there is no real evidence outside the Bible to support this notion.

Isn't it curious how the evil effects of the book are apparently, in
the eyes of its apologists, the fault of those who criticise it?

But we have all seen this stale old marketting line before.

We have indeed. We saw it with the Harry Potter books, too - the stale
old marketing line that says such books are 'evil' or have 'evil
effects' simply because they do not conform to specific Christian dogma.
.
User: ""

Title: Re: Christians ready to refute 'Da Vinci Code' movie 23 Mar 2006 12:16:35 PM
Midjis wrote:

Distressed? Hardly. Irritated? Indeed, as was intended.


If Christians become 'irritated' at every book, film, article or argument
that questions the 'truth' of their faith ...

Oh PLEASE!! If you must jeer, at least do it in your own words.
Those who set out to give offence are the first to complain when
offence is taken.

You need not accept what either book claims. Others will, perhaps - but
there will always be those who would rather embrace groundless fiction
and call it fact that look for evidence.

Indeed there are. All of them your co-religionists, I notice.

NONE of those aspects of the book are claimed by Brown to be factual.


All of them are being treated as fact routinely online, no doubt by
people who read the book.


Anyone who takes any part of the book to be 'factual' has badly
misunderstood.

No doubt. But the point is that it happens.

The same can be said for the Holy Blood and the Holy
Grail - which is at least marketed as potential 'fact'. Both books are
based on the initial premise that Jesus existed as a historical figure -
yet there is no real evidence outside the Bible to support this notion.

Atheists keep saying this. It sort of shows that atheism must be
false, if that's what it does to one's perceptions.

Isn't it curious how the evil effects of the book are apparently, in
the eyes of its apologists, the fault of those who criticise it?

But we have all seen this stale old marketting line before.


We have indeed..

[Tu quoque snipped]
Isn't it curious how the evil effects of the book are apparently, in
the eyes of its apologists, the fault of those who criticise it?
Deal with your bigotry before you post further. None of us give a damn
about it, and it's very very boring.
All the best,
Roger Pearse
.
User: "Midjis"

Title: Re: Christians ready to refute 'Da Vinci Code' movie 23 Mar 2006 07:10:49 PM

If Christians become 'irritated' at every book, film, article or
argument that questions the 'truth' of their faith ...


Oh PLEASE!! If you must jeer, at least do it in your own words.

By all means reference the source of this plagiarised material if you
believe it is such.

Those who set out to give offence are the first to complain when
offence is taken.

Do not mistake my comments for complaints. They are simply observations.

Indeed there are. All of them your co-religionists, I notice.

And once AGAIN someone seeks to suggest to me what my religion is. Come
on, Roger, tell me outright: what is it?

Anyone who takes any part of the book to be 'factual' has badly
misunderstood.


No doubt. But the point is that it happens.

Indeed. But if you are not one of those people then the battle is not
yours to fight. You need only offer your Truth, and those whom your God
has selected to save will comply.

The same can be said for the Holy Blood and the Holy
Grail - which is at least marketed as potential 'fact'. Both books
are based on the initial premise that Jesus existed as a historical
figure - yet there is no real evidence outside the Bible to support
this notion.


Atheists keep saying this. It sort of shows that atheism must be
false, if that's what it does to one's perceptions.

Oh? So while a moment ago I had 'co-religionists', now I am an atheist?
I presume you are one of those types who consider atheism a religion in
itself?
It might be considered a religious or philosophical standpoint - it is
not a religion.
And I note that, despite your rather high-handed dismissal of us
'atheists', you elected NOT to refute the point made.

Deal with your bigotry before you post further. None of us give a
damn about it, and it's very very boring.

You have not been particularly stimulating yourself, so far. But I will
post where and when and how I please. If you cannot deal with it, then
it is your choice to reply or not. Whether I bore you is of absolutely
no consequence to me.
.





User: "Midjis"

Title: Re: Christians ready to refute 'Da Vinci Code' movie 22 Mar 2006 10:46:28 AM
Steve Dufour wrote:

Christians ready to refute 'Da Vinci Code' movie

Rather than organize protests or boycotts, Evangelicals and Catholics
are mobilizing 'truth squads.'
By Jane Lampman | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

In a world accepting of docudramas and reality TV shows that aren't
real, how does one counter a blockbuster movie whose theme challenges
the orthodox religious history of the Western world?
That's the task facing Christians already distressed by Dan Brown's
wildly popular novel, "The Da Vinci Code," and his claim that the
thriller is based on historical facts.

If 'The Da Vinci Code' is NOT based on historical facts, then it is no
different from modern Christianity in that regard. Christians can
'refute' it as much as they wish. Although I do not rule out that such a
man existed (although I do not accept that he was the manifest God), there
is no real evidence for the existence of the historical Jesus. Thus,
without such evidence, 'The Holy Blood and the Holy Grail', 'The Da Vinci
Code' and Christianity itself are all equally based on speculation and
faith.
.
User: "George Peatty"

Title: Re: Christians ready to refute 'Da Vinci Code' movie 22 Mar 2006 01:51:44 PM
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 10:46:28 -0600, Midjis <midwinter_m@hotmail.co.uk>
wrote:

there is no real evidence for the existence of the historical Jesus.

Yes, there is. They're called the Gospels.







































--
NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth
.
User: "Midjis"

Title: Re: Christians ready to refute 'Da Vinci Code' movie 22 Mar 2006 06:11:56 PM
George Peatty wrote:

Yes, there is. They're called the Gospels.

A predictable if understandable response from one who chooses to believe
that assertion - if the Gospels can even be called that - is evidence of
fact.
Why should they not be called assertion, though, if they say that "Jesus
said" or "Jesus did"? They are not asking if we think it happened - they
are saying it did. Yet the content of most novels takes this form - but we
do not assume in all cases that the existence of the novel is proof of the
truth of the events it describes.
.

User: "John Harkness"

Title: Re: Christians ready to refute 'Da Vinci Code' movie 22 Mar 2006 02:33:21 PM
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:51:44 -0500, George Peatty
<peattyg47-1230@copper.net> wrote:

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 10:46:28 -0600, Midjis <midwinter_m@hotmail.co.uk>
wrote:

there is no real evidence for the existence of the historical Jesus.


Yes, there is. They're called the Gospels.




There's similar evidence to the existence of King Arthur, Santa Claus
and The Easter Bunny.
John Harkness
.
User: ""

Title: Re: Christians ready to refute 'Da Vinci Code' movie 22 Mar 2006 03:54:55 PM
John Harkness wrote:

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:51:44 -0500, George Peatty

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 10:46:28 -0600, Midjis <midwinter_m@hotmail.co.uk>

there is no real evidence for the existence of the historical Jesus.


Yes, there is. They're called the Gospels.


There's similar evidence to the existence of King Arthur, Santa Claus
and The Easter Bunny.

I don't understand you. I've questioned your sense of spirituality, or
of the sacred, on other threads; and you self-righteously and rather
brutally take exception, and state how you visit art museums when in
Rome.
Then you turn around and make post after post that jeer and belittle
me, Mr. Peatty, and others who have the temerity to voice our faith.
You use these Usenet groups to show off and boast about your great
(admittedly great) knowledge in a very specific field and to belittle
others. I don't believe I've ever gotten ad hominem with you, not in
the way you repeatedly have with me. But as of this craven and
disrespectful answer to Mr. Peatty, I'm saying what I really feel about
you, and it's "on-topic," and it's that you're a boor.
.
User: "George Peatty"

Title: Re: Christians ready to refute 'Da Vinci Code' movie 22 Mar 2006 04:29:22 PM
On 22 Mar 2006 13:54:55 -0800,
wrote:

But as of this craven and disrespectful answer to Mr. Peatty, I'm saying what I really feel about
you, and it's "on-topic," and it's that you're a boor.

Thank you for this defense. John Harkness, for all his faults, comes off
very favorably in comparison with most of the online denizens of the
religious newsgroups. He is a bit too blunt sometimes, and his words sting
sometimes, but in the main I like reading what he has to say in the *films
groups. He just has a blind spot on religious subjects. Were he to apply
his considerable intelligence to analyzing his prejudices, he might see that
himself, but that's asking too much, at least in the short term.







































--
NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth
.
User: "Midjis"

Title: Re: Christians ready to refute 'Da Vinci Code' movie 22 Mar 2006 06:14:19 PM
George Peatty wrote:

Were he to apply
his considerable intelligence to analyzing his prejudices, he might
see that himself, but that's asking too much, at least in the short
term.

"That's asking too much".
Is this not prejudice?
.
User: ""

Title: Re: Christians ready to refute 'Da Vinci Code' movie 23 Mar 2006 05:38:33 AM
Midjis wrote:

George Peatty wrote:

Were he to apply
his considerable intelligence to analyzing his prejudices, he might
see that himself, but that's asking too much, at least in the short
term.


"That's asking too much".

Is this not prejudice?

Whoever you are, you and Harkness share a bully's consistent lack of
respect--in this case, to a response full of respect to Harkness'
intelligence.
What a mutual admiration society r.a.m.c.f is--one self-righteous
pompous mocker of Christians congratulating the other on how incisive
his/her put-downs are. Christians are such an easy target. You can
always drag the gutters and turn up at least one other lowlife who'll
toss in a snide sentence at the keyboard.
I hope your pudgy faces stream with hot melted butter at the very first
showing of Da Vinci Code. Just think of how many other nerds will be
with you. You might even meet a girl-nerd or boy-nerd, and make
nerd-love around 4PM.
.
User: "deering24"

Title: Re: Christians ready to refute 'Da Vinci Code' movie 23 Mar 2006 07:46:15 AM
wrote:

What a mutual admiration society r.a.m.c.f is--one self-righteous
pompous mocker of Christians congratulating the other on how incisive
his/her put-downs are. Christians are such an easy target.

You are a lot of things, mute, but a real Christian ain't one of them.
You lack judgement, objectivity, and tolerance--and you just _love_ to
condemm whole groups of people. If anything, you are a megachurch
Christian--you figure that because you are saved, that makes you
automatically superior to everyone else...and justifies any bitchery or
meanness you dish out. Do you ever help anyone who needs help? Do you
care about making the world a better place? Do you do _anything_ but
post online and go to church and tilt your nose in the air about how
much a woman of faith you are?

I hope your pudgy faces stream with hot melted butter at the very first
showing of Da Vinci Code. Just think of how many other nerds will be
with you. You might even meet a girl-nerd or boy-nerd, and make
nerd-love around 4PM.

Whoa, now there's a mature, well-reasoned retort.
C.
**
(Christ, I am _so_ sick of these self-righteous snots...)
.
User: ""

Title: Re: Christians ready to refute 'Da Vinci Code' movie 23 Mar 2006 02:49:08 PM
deering24 wrote:


You are a lot of things, mute, but a real Christian ain't one of them.
You lack judgement, objectivity, and tolerance--and you just _love_ to
condemm whole groups of people. If anything, you are a megachurch
Christian--you figure that because you are saved, that makes you
automatically superior to everyone else...and justifies any bitchery or
meanness you dish out. Do you ever help anyone who needs help? Do you
care about making the world a better place? Do you do _anything_ but
post online and go to church and tilt your nose in the air about how
much a woman of faith you are?

No, I've never done anything good in my life, not one thing ever.
But as long as you're a pathetic Usenet sadist in to rhetorical
questions today: R U 4 ever in luv with John Harnkess or do U just have
a nasty crush on him?
.

User: "trotsky"

Title: Re: Christians ready to refute 'Da Vinci Code' movie 23 Mar 2006 08:33:23 AM
deering24 wrote:


mutefan@yahoo.com wrote:


What a mutual admiration society r.a.m.c.f is--one self-righteous
pompous mocker of Christians congratulating the other on how incisive
his/her put-downs are. Christians are such an easy target.



You are a lot of things, mute, but a real Christian ain't one of them.
You lack judgement, objectivity, and tolerance--and you just _love_ to
condemm whole groups of people.

That's what Christianity has always been about.
.


User: "Midjis"

Title: Re: Christians ready to refute 'Da Vinci Code' movie 23 Mar 2006 09:03:43 AM

Whoever you are, you and Harkness share a bully's consistent lack of
respect--in this case, to a response full of respect to Harkness'
intelligence.

I am not really concerned about that. I simply ask if your comment whilst
criticising this person's prejudice was not in itself prejudiced. That
question is still open, since you have chosen not to address it.

What a mutual admiration society r.a.m.c.f is--one self-righteous
pompous mocker of Christians congratulating the other on how incisive
his/her put-downs are. Christians are such an easy target. You can
always drag the gutters and turn up at least one other lowlife who'll
toss in a snide sentence at the keyboard.

I hope your pudgy faces stream with hot melted butter at the very first
showing of Da Vinci Code. Just think of how many other nerds will be
with you. You might even meet a girl-nerd or boy-nerd, and make
nerd-love around 4PM.

I simply asked a question. The fact that you cannot answer it without
resorting to the above - which I assume you feel is a good demonstration of
your Christian righteousness - is solely your own problem.
.




User: "John Harkness"

Title: Re: Christians ready to refute 'Da Vinci Code' movie 22 Mar 2006 04:30:48 PM
On 22 Mar 2006 13:54:55 -0800,
wrote:

John Harkness wrote:

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:51:44 -0500, George Peatty

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 10:46:28 -0600, Midjis <midwinter_m@hotmail.co.uk>

there is no real evidence for the existence of the historical Jesus.


Yes, there is. They're called the Gospels.


There's similar evidence to the existence of King Arthur, Santa Claus
and The Easter Bunny.


I don't understand you. I've questioned your sense of spirituality, or
of the sacred, on other threads; and you self-righteously and rather
brutally take exception, and state how you visit art museums when in
Rome.

Then you turn around and make post after post that jeer and belittle
me, Mr. Peatty, and others who have the temerity to voice our faith.
You use these Usenet groups to show off and boast about your great
(admittedly great) knowledge in a very specific field and to belittle
others. I don't believe I've ever gotten ad hominem with you, not in
the way you repeatedly have with me. But as of this craven and
disrespectful answer to Mr. Peatty, I'm saying what I really feel about
you, and it's "on-topic," and it's that you're a boor.

And you're a moron and a hypocrite.
John Harkness
.


User: "The PhAnToM"

Title: Re: Christians ready to refute 'Da Vinci Code' movie 22 Mar 2006 04:06:35 PM
John Harkness wrote:

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 14:51:44 -0500, George Peatty
<peattyg47-1230@copper.net> wrote:

On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 10:46:28 -0600, Midjis <midwinter_m@hotmail.co.uk>
wrote:

there is no real evidence for the existence of the historical Jesus.


Yes, there is. They're called the Gospels.





There's similar evidence to the existence of King Arthur, Santa Claus
and The Easter Bunny.

Actually, the so-called "evidence" of these being in history is in no
way similar.
.
User: "Midjis"

Title: Re: Christians ready to refute 'Da Vinci Code' movie 22 Mar 2006 06:12:46 PM
The PhAnToM wrote:

There's similar evidence to the existence of King Arthur, Santa Claus
and The Easter Bunny.


Actually, the so-called "evidence" of these being in history is in no
way similar.

This is true. There is some historical evidence of a man on whom the King
Arthur stories may originally have been based.
.


User: "George Peatty"

Title: Re: Christians ready to refute 'Da Vinci Code' movie 22 Mar 2006 04:19:59 PM
On Wed, 22 Mar 2006 15:33:21 -0500, John Harkness <jharkness@sympatico.ca>
wrote:

There's similar evidence to the existence of King Arthur, Santa Claus
and The Easter Bunny.

I am not familiar with the Gospel according to Sir Gawain ..







































--
NewsGuy.Com 30Gb $9.95 Carry Forward and On Demand Bandwidth
.




User: "rick++"

Title: Re: Christians ready to refute 'Da Vinci Code' movie 23 Mar 2006 10:13:46 AM
The myths explored in the DaVinci book and movie have
been floating around for centuries. I first read about them in
"New Age" books in the 1960s. It amuses me there is
big plagarism trial about this in London. Browns innovation was
to weave these myths into a boilerplate crime mystery.
.

User: "rick++"

Title: Re: Christians ready to refute 'Da Vinci Code' movie 23 Mar 2006 10:10:26 AM
There seems to be an increase in what I call "Christian [science]
fiction" cinema.
Besides Da Vinci, there are the two Narnia movies (the lion subplot),
the Left Behind series, and possibly Mel Gibson's coming Apocoluto
movie.
Though Mel's new movie is about some catastrophic event causing Mayans
to leave their cities for the jungles, it supposedly parallels
Revelations.
.

User: "Wide Eyed in Wonder"

Title: Re: Christians ready to refute 'Da Vinci Code' movie 22 Mar 2006 09:15:01 AM
Why would they need to refute what the movie's own producers admit (at
their own site) call false.
The movie company's own site...
http://thedavincichallenge.com/
Steve Dufour wrote:

Christians ready to refute 'Da Vinci Code' movie

Rather than organize protests or boycotts, Evangelicals and Catholics
are mobilizing 'truth squads.'
By Jane Lampman | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

In a world accepting of docudramas and reality TV shows that aren't
real, how does one counter a blockbuster movie whose theme challenges
the orthodox religious history of the Western world?
That's the task facing Christians already distressed by Dan Brown's
wildly popular novel, "The Da Vinci Code," and his claim that the
thriller is based on historical facts.

With sales of more than 40 million, the book has become a cultural
phenomenon. Unless the copyright-infringement trial in London (which
now awaits the judge's decision) brings an injunction against use of
the material, the May release of the film starring Tom Hanks will
surely magnify its global impact.

Rather than organize protests or boycotts - steps taken in the past
against controversial films - Evangelicals and Catholics instead are
mobilizing "truth squads." They're producing books, websites, TV
documentaries, DVDs, and study guides. Some hope to use the film as a
"teachable moment" that could turn the occasion to their advantage.

"Our task is to be the missionary to the unbelievers," says the Rev.
James Garlow, pastor of Skyline Wesleyan Church in San Diego, Calif.
He's developed a four-phase strategy for churches leading up to the
film's release.

Yet others suggest there's more involved than a question of historical
accuracy. They say part of the book's appeal is that it raises deeper
issues about the nature of Christianity that many people, including
devout Christians, want to talk about.

Eric Plumer, a theology professor at the University of Scranton, a
Catholic institution in Pennsylvania, has been surprised by the intense
interest he's encountered when giving talks about "The Da Vinci Code"
in public libraries, colleges, and senior-citizen centers.

"The turnouts have been mainly standing room only," he says. "Some want
to know how to refute the book; some want their belief in it
strengthened.... Even if people can't wholly accept what Dan Brown has
to say, they feel he has touched on something they want to discuss."

Dr. Plumer is now writing a book on why the novel has struck such a
chord despite dozens and dozens of books published to debunk its
claims.

Those claims include that Jesus married Mary Magdalene and their
bloodline still survives; that the idea of Jesus' divinity did not
exist until Emperor Constantine formed the Council of Nicea to
establish it; and that the Roman Catholic Church has conspired to hide
this throughout history, even to the point of murder.

The novel is first and foremost a fantastical murder mystery, an
intriguing page turner that grabs even those wholly opposed to its
thesis. It catches people's imaginations, many say, because it involves
a conspiracy.

"Americans love a conspiracy theory," says Lynn Garrett, religion
editor at Publishers Weekly. "It also tapped into people's
disillusionment with the Catholic Church following the sexual abuse
scandals."

Some say Mr. Brown's controversial approach to history plays on
people's limited knowledge.

"One reason it works so well on readers is that he tends to begin with
a kernel of something historical and then quickly spins off into
fiction - or you could say falsehood, since he represents it as
something researched," says Timothy Beal, professor of religion at Case
Western Reserve University in Cleveland.

Professor Beal used Brown's novel last fall in a course on the New
Testament and early Christianity, illustrating pop culture interest in
the topic. "Half of the students had already read the book and many
believed it," he says.

Yet people agree, too, that the novel appeals because it offers a
different way of seeing Christian tradition, particularly issues of
patriarchy and women in the early church. This appeal has helped spur
new subcategories in the publishing business, Ms. Garrett says, with
each season bringing new books on Mary Magdalene and on what's now
called "alternative Christianity."

For Catholics, the primary concern is countering the historical charges
as well as the representation of the church and the lay Catholic group,
Opus Dei. The US Conference of Catholic Bishops is mounting a campaign
tied to the film, with an extensive website launched this month and a
TV documentary. "Jesus Decoded," presenting Catholic teaching on
Christ, will be offered to NBC-TV affiliates for broadcast the week the
movie opens. In addition, Opus Dei, which is controversial even among
Catholics for its secrecy, has begun a PR campaign.

William Donohue, president of the Catholic League for Religious and
Civil Rights, has pressed Sony Pictures and director Ron Howard to put
a disclaimer at the start of the film saying it is fiction. "We have a
deceitful writer who has said it's based on historical facts, and a
co-producer who has called the movie 'conservatively anti-Catholic,' "
says Mr. Donohue.

The filmmakers have not responded to his request. Instead, they've
encouraged Christians to discuss the issues on a Sony-sponsored
website: www.thedavincidialogue.com. A number of prominent Evangelicals
are providing essays, while others suggest they're being co-opted.

The concern is global: The Russian Orthodox Church has complained about
the film, and Evangelicals in South Korea are even trying to keep it
out of theaters. One Christian leader, according to Yonghap News
Agency, has compared it to the Danish cartoons denigrating Islam.

Evangelicals in the US plan to launch their own website in late April.
Backed by an anonymous philanthropist and hosted by Westminster
Theological Seminary (WTS) in Philadelphia, the project also involves
people close to Billy Graham.

"While we recognize the right to present a good yarn, we're concerned
the mix of fact and fiction is sure to lead many to question the
Bible's integrity, its message, and Christianity's impact on history,"
says William Edgar, a professor of apologetics at WTS. "We want to help
the curious viewer ... set the record straight, or at least put some
doubt into the doubting."

Some church leaders aim to equip their congregations to handle the
claims. Wheatland Presbyterian Church in Lancaster, Pa., plans a
seven-week Sunday School class beginning in April to cover key issues
raised by the novel. "We also hope to have an evening event for the
community ... and encourage our members to invite neighbors to
home-group discussions," says the Rev. Bruce Mawhinney, senior pastor.

Others, particularly leaders who have written debunking books, are more
ambitious - packaging books, DVDs, and outreach materials. Dr. Garlow,
author of "The Da Vinci Codebreaker," hopes his strategy for churches
will lead people to throw Da Vinci parties, or gatherings at work to
discuss the film with "unbelievers."

Yet some say Evangelicals are less likely than others to have even read
the novel. Moviegoers who have read it may have other interests in
mind.

"In our sort of postsecular society, there is a question out there
among many: 'Is this all there is?' " Case Western's Beal says. "Given
the socioeconomic realities and the established institutions, there's a
desire to discover something more that's been there, but that we didn't
know. A longing for something spiritual that is not possessed or
controlled by established institutional religion."

Kenny Clifton
-author of the Red Letter Stories
http://www.christianjedi.com/redletterstories.html
.
User: "Steve Dufour"

Title: Re: Christians ready to refute 'Da Vinci Code' movie 22 Mar 2006 09:17:53 AM
Wide Eyed in Wonder wrote:

Why would they need to refute what the movie's own producers admit (at
their own site) call false.

The movie company's own site...
http://thedavincichallenge.com/

Are you sure you have the right site?


Steve Dufour wrote:

Christians ready to refute 'Da Vinci Code' movie

Rather than organize protests or boycotts, Evangelicals and Catholics
are mobilizing 'truth squads.'
By Jane Lampman | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

In a world accepting of docudramas and reality TV shows that aren't
real, how does one counter a blockbuster movie whose theme challenges
the orthodox religious history of the Western world?
That's the task facing Christians already distressed by Dan Brown's
wildly popular novel, "The Da Vinci Code," and his claim that the
thriller is based on historical facts.

With sales of more than 40 million, the book has become a cultural
phenomenon. Unless the copyright-infringement trial in London (which
now awaits the judge's decision) brings an injunction against use of
the material, the May release of the film starring Tom Hanks will
surely magnify its global impact.

Rather than organize protests or boycotts - steps taken in the past
against controversial films - Evangelicals and Catholics instead are
mobilizing "truth squads." They're producing books, websites, TV
documentaries, DVDs, and study guides. Some hope to use the film as a
"teachable moment" that could turn the occasion to their advantage.

"Our task is to be the missionary to the unbelievers," says the Rev.
James Garlow, pastor of Skyline Wesleyan Church in San Diego, Calif.
He's developed a four-phase strategy for churches leading up to the
film's release.

Yet others suggest there's more involved than a question of historical
accuracy. They say part of the book's appeal is that it raises deeper
issues about the nature of Christianity that many people, including
devout Christians, want to talk about.

Eric Plumer, a theology professor at the University of Scranton, a
Catholic institution in Pennsylvania, has been surprised by the intense
interest he's encountered when giving talks about "The Da Vinci Code"
in public libraries, colleges, and senior-citizen centers.

"The turnouts have been mainly standing room only," he says. "Some want
to know how to refute the book; some want their belief in it
strengthened.... Even if people can't wholly accept what Dan Brown has
to say, they feel he has touched on something they want to discuss."

Dr. Plumer is now writing a book on why the novel has struck such a
chord despite dozens and dozens of books published to debunk its
claims.

Those claims include that Jesus married Mary Magdalene and their
bloodline still survives; that the idea of Jesus' divinity did not
exist until Emperor Constantine formed the Council of Nicea to
establish it; and that the Roman Catholic Church has conspired to hide
this throughout history, even to the point of murder.

The novel is first and foremost a fantastical murder mystery, an
intriguing page turner that grabs even those wholly opposed to its
thesis. It catches people's imaginations, many say, because it involves
a conspiracy.

"Americans love a conspiracy theory," says Lynn Garrett, religion
editor at Publishers Weekly. "It also tapped into people's
disillusionment with the Catholic Church following the sexual abuse
scandals."

Some say Mr. Brown's controversial approach to history plays on
people's limited knowledge.

"One reason it works so well on readers is that he tends to begin with
a kernel of something historical and then quickly spins off into
fiction - or you could say falsehood, since he represents it as
something researched," says Timothy Beal, professor of religion at Case
Western Reserve University in Cleveland.

Professor Beal used Brown's novel last fall in a course on the New
Testament and early Christianity, illustrating pop culture interest in
the topic. "Half of the students had already read the book and many
believed it," he says.

Yet people agree, too, that the novel appeals because it offers a
different way of seeing Christian tradition, particularly issues of
patriarchy and women in the early church. This appeal has helped spur
new subcategories in the publishing business, Ms. Garrett says, with
each season bringing new books on Mary Magdalene and on what's now
called "alternative Christianity."

For Catholics, the primary concern is countering the historical charges
as well as the representation of the church and the lay Catholic group,
Opus Dei. The US Conference of Catholic Bishops is mounting a campaign
tied to the film, with an extensive website launched this month and a
TV documentary. "Jesus Decoded," presenting Catholic teaching on
Christ, will be offered to NBC-TV affiliates for broadcast the week the
movie opens. In addition, Opus Dei, which is controversial even among
Catholics for its secrecy, has begun a PR campaign.

William Donohue, president of the Catholic League for Religious and
Civil Rights, has pressed Sony Pictures and director Ron Howard to put
a disclaimer at the start of the film saying it is fiction. "We have a
deceitful writer who has said it's based on historical facts, and a
co-producer who has called the movie 'conservatively anti-Catholic,' "
says Mr. Donohue.

The filmmakers have not responded to his request. Instead, they've
encouraged Christians to discuss the issues on a Sony-sponsored
website: www.thedavincidialogue.com. A number of prominent Evangelicals
are providing essays, while others suggest they're being co-opted.

The concern is global: The Russian Orthodox Church has complained about
the film, and Evangelicals in South Korea are even trying to keep it
out of theaters. One Christian leader, according to Yonghap News
Agency, has compared it to the Danish cartoons denigrating Islam.

Evangelicals in the US plan to launch their own website in late April.
Backed by an anonymous philanthropist and hosted by Westminster
Theological Seminary (WTS) in Philadelphia, the project also involves
people close to Billy Graham.

"While we recognize the right to present a good yarn, we're concerned
the mix of fact and fiction is sure to lead many to question the
Bible's integrity, its message, and Christianity's impact on history,"
says William Edgar, a professor of apologetics at WTS. "We want to help
the curious viewer ... set the record straight, or at least put some
doubt into the doubting."

Some church leaders aim to equip their congregations to handle the
claims. Wheatland Presbyterian Church in Lancaster, Pa., plans a
seven-week Sunday School class beginning in April to cover key issues
raised by the novel. "We also hope to have an evening event for the
community ... and encourage our members to invite neighbors to
home-group discussions," says the Rev. Bruce Mawhinney, senior pastor.

Others, particularly leaders who have written debunking books, are more
ambitious - packaging books, DVDs, and outreach materials. Dr. Garlow,
author of "The Da Vinci Codebreaker," hopes his strategy for churches
will lead people to throw Da Vinci parties, or gatherings at work to
discuss the film with "unbelievers."

Yet some say Evangelicals are less likely than others to have even read
the novel. Moviegoers who have read it may have other interests in
mind.

"In our sort of postsecular society, there is a question out there
among many: 'Is this all there is?' " Case Western's Beal says. "Given
the socioeconomic realities and the established institutions, there's a
desire to discover something more that's been there, but that we didn't
know. A longing for something spiritual that is not possessed or
controlled by established institutional religion."


Kenny Clifton
-author of the Red Letter Stories
http://www.christianjedi.com/redletterstories.html

.
User: "Wide Eyed in Wonder"

Title: Re: Christians ready to refute 'Da Vinci Code' movie 22 Mar 2006 09:20:19 AM
Steve Dufour wrote:

Wide Eyed in Wonder wrote:

Why would they need to refute what the movie's own producers admit (at
their own site) call false.

The movie company's own site...
http://thedavincichallenge.com/


Are you sure you have the right site?

Absolutely, look at the FAQ. It is a Sony site.



Steve Dufour wrote:

Christians ready to refute 'Da Vinci Code' movie

Rather than organize protests or boycotts, Evangelicals and Catholics
are mobilizing 'truth squads.'
By Jane Lampman | Staff writer of The Christian Science Monitor

In a world accepting of docudramas and reality TV shows that aren't
real, how does one counter a blockbuster movie whose theme challenges
the orthodox religious history of the Western world?
That's the task facing Christians already distressed by Dan Brown's
wildly popular novel, "The Da Vinci Code," and his claim that the
thriller is based on historical facts.

With sales of more than 40 million, the book has become a cultural
phenomenon. Unless the copyright-infringement trial in London (which
now awaits the judge's decision) brings an injunction against use of
the material, the May release of the film starring Tom Hanks will
surely magnify its global impact.

Rather than organize protests or boycotts - steps taken in the past
against controversial films - Evangelicals and Catholics instead are
mobilizing "truth squads." They're producing books, websites, TV
documentaries, DVDs, and study guides. Some hope to use the film as a
"teachable moment" that could turn the occasion to their advantage.

"Our task is to be the missionary to the unbelievers," says the Rev.
James Garlow, pastor of Skyline Wesleyan Church in San Diego, Calif.
He's developed a four-phase strategy for churches leading up to the
film's release.

Yet others suggest there's more involved than a question of historical
accuracy. They say part of the book's appeal is that it raises deeper
issues about the nature of Christianity that many people, including
devout Christians, want to talk about.

Eric Plumer, a theology professor at the University of Scranton, a
Catholic institution in Pennsylvania, has been surprised by the intense
interest he's encountered when giving talks about "The Da Vinci Code"
in public libraries, colleges, and senior-citizen centers.

"The turnouts have been mainly standing room only," he says. "Some want
to know how to refute the book; some want their belief in it
strengthened.... Even if people can't wholly accept what Dan Brown has
to say, they feel he has touched on something they want to discuss."

Dr. Plumer is now writing a book on why the novel has struck such a
chord despite dozens and dozens of books published to debunk its
claims.

Those claims include that Jesus married Mary Magdalene and their
bloodline still survives; that the idea of Jesus' divinity did not
exist until Emperor Constantine formed the Council of Nicea to
establish it; and that the Roman Catholic Church has conspired to hide
this throughout history, even to the point of murder.

The novel is first and foremost a fantastical murder mystery, an
intriguing page turner that grabs even those wholly opposed to its
thesis. It catches people's imaginations, many say, because it involves
a conspiracy.

"Americans love a conspiracy theory," says Lynn Garrett, religion
editor at Publishers Weekly. "It also tapped into people's
disillusionment with the Catholic Church following the sexual abuse
scandals."

Some say Mr. Brown's controversial approach to history plays on
people's limited knowledge.

"One reason it works so well on readers is that he tends to begin with
a kernel of something historical and then quickly spins off into
fiction - or you could say falsehood, since he represents it as
something researched," says Timothy Beal, professor of religion at Case
Western Reserve University in Cleveland.

Professor Beal used Brown's novel last fall in a course on the New
Testament and early Christianity, illustrating pop culture interest in
the topic. "Half of the students had already read the book and many
believed it," he says.

Yet people agree, too, that the novel appeals because it offers a
different way of seeing Christian tradition, particularly issues of
patriarchy and women in the early church. This appeal has helped spur
new subcategories in the publishing business, Ms. Garrett says, with
each season bringing new books on Mary Magdalene and on what's now
called "alternative Christianity."

For Catholics, the primary concern is countering the historical charges
as well as the representation of the church and the lay Catholic group,
Opus Dei. The US Conference of Catholic Bishops is mounting a campaign
tied to the film, with an extensive website launched this month and a
TV documentary. "Jesus Decoded," presenting Catholic teaching on
Christ, will be offered to NBC-TV affiliates for broadcast the week the
movie opens. In addition, Opus Dei, which is controversial even among
Catholics for its secrecy, has begun a PR campaign.

William Donohue, president of the Catholic League for Religious and
Civil Rights, has pressed Sony Pictures and director Ron Howard to put
a disclaimer at the start of the film saying it is fiction. "We have a
deceitful writer who has said it's based on historical facts, and a
co-producer who has called the movie 'conservatively anti-Catholic,' "
says Mr. Donohue.

The filmmakers have not responded to his request. Instead, they've
encouraged Christians to discuss the issues on a Sony-sponsored
website: www.thedavincidialogue.com. A number of prominent Evangelicals
are providing essays, while others suggest they're being co-opted.

The concern is global: The Russian Orthodox Church has complained about
the film, and Evangelicals in South Korea are even trying to keep it
out of theaters. One Christian leader, according to Yonghap News
Agency, has compared it to the Danish cartoons denigrating Islam.

Evangelicals in the US plan to launch their own website in late April.
Backed by an anonymous philanthropist and hosted by Westminster
Theological Seminary (WTS) in Philadelphia, the project also involves
people close to Billy Graham.

"While we recognize the right to present a good yarn, we're concerned
the mix of fact and fiction is sure to lead many to question the
Bible's integrity, its message, and Christianity's impact on history,"
says William Edgar, a professor of apologetics at WTS. "We want to help
the curious viewer ... set the record straight, or at least put some
doubt into the doubting."

Some church leaders aim to equip their congregations to handle the
claims. Wheatland Presbyterian Church in Lancaster, Pa., plans a
seven-week Sunday School class beginning in April to cover key issues
raised by the novel. "We also hope to have an evening event for the
community ... and encourage our members to invite neighbors to
home-group discussions," says the Rev. Bruce Mawhinney, senior pastor.

Others, particularly leaders who have written debunking books, are more
ambitious - packaging books, DVDs, and outreach materials. Dr. Garlow,
author of "The Da Vinci Codebreaker," hopes his strategy for churches
will lead people to throw Da Vinci parties, or gatherings at work to
discuss the film with "unbelievers."

Yet some say Evangelicals are less likely than others to have even read
the novel. Moviegoers who have read it may have other interests in
mind.

"In our sort of postsecular society, there is a question out there
among many: 'Is this all there is?' " Case Western's Beal says. "Given
the socioeconomic realities and the established institutions, there's a
desire to discover something more that's been there, but that we didn't
know. A longing for something spiritual that is not possessed or
controlled by established institutional religion."


Kenny Clifton
-author of the Red Letter Stories
http://www.christianjedi.com/redletterstories.html
.




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