| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Pastor Dave" |
| Date: |
14 Dec 2007 09:40:48 PM |
| Object: |
CHUCK: Carnal Man Doctrine Post |
Chuck,
You never answered the following response from me:
On Fri, 7 Dec 2007 16:56:25 -0800, "Chuck Stamford"
<shell__stamford@cox.net> said the following:
<Text moved out of order.>
For the purpose of avoiding arguing a side issue,
I have moved the text immediately below to here,
at the top...
I love Him because He first loved me. That has
nothing to do with me being saved.
Sure it does. An unsaved person is not born again
and without being born again, you cannot love Him.
But you believe what you want. It isn't worth
arguing about. The point is with regard to how one
comes to Christ. I call it being saved, but for the
purpose of this discussion, I'm sure we can at least
agree on the term "born again". Thus I will use
that term for the rest of the message. :)
"Pastor Dave" <ananias917_@_gmail.com>
wrote in message
On Thu, 6 Dec 2007 01:10:46 -0800, "Chuck Stamford"
<shell__stamford@cox.net> said the following:
Omnipotent = Unlimited in power.
However, not everything that is possible to do
can be accomplished using power, unlimited
or otherwise.
Can God get me to love Him by an exertion
of His omnipotence?
Yes. Didn't you know that? You aren't saved
by your will, but His will and you only love Him,
because He saved you.
You like to say that you chose Christ, but the fact is,
you also like to say that the carnal man wouldn't
choose the things of God. Well, guess what you were?
Carnal! Therefore, neither did you choose the things
of God. He chose you!
Yes, He chose me, Dave, but He didn't force me.
Yes, He did. The carnal man would not choose
the things of God and you were carnal. Therefore,
without God forcing you to see it His way, you
would not have accepted the things of God in Christ.
"No man can come to me, except the Father
which hath sent me draw him: and I will
raise him up at the last day." - John 6:44
Who can come to the Christ, without the Father
drawing him/her? N-O O-N-E !!!
What word is there, that is translated into "draw"?
"Helkuo", which means, "to drag" and in common
usage, it would mean "to drag, as if kicking and
screaming". I.e., the person does NOT want to
go and is fighting the idea, just as we all did!
And those who claim they didn't, are those with
selective memory, because like most people,
they like to paint a pretty portrait of themselves!
So what does that passage tell us? You were
dragged against your will by the Father, to Christ.
You had no choice in the matter, period! And we
can go into the predestination passages, which
show that God chose His elect, even before the
foundation of the world and so, it had nothing
and I mean NOTHING to do with you choosing!
And no, I don't love Him because He saved me.
I am not saying that you say; "I love you because you
saved me". I'm saying that you have love for Him, as
the result of being born again. You could not love Him,
without that happening. Understand what I mean now?
For one thing He hasn't actually saved me yet.
I just have His perfectly reliable promise that
He will if I remain faithful to Him, and His
promise to aid me greatly, with everything
I could possibly need, in doing that.
So now it is by your works that you will be saved?
As I said, I don't wish to sidetrack into this issue,
but since you stated what you believe, I will just
tell you what i do and I'll leave it alone after that.
I believe that one is saved spiritually when they are
born again and that if that event truly happened,
then there is no chance of them falling away from
the faith. Of course, there is the actual act of God
saving them, which is after death and they are judged.
Anyway, that's how I see it. And now back to our
regularly scheduled programming. :)
And I would appreciate it in future if you would
stick to telling people why YOU love God, and
not presume to know why I do to others.
Yea right Chuck. You never get involved, huh?!
The fact is, if someone said they love God because
He is a three armed monkey, you'd jump right on it!
And that is why people call you a hypocrite! You
like to jump into peoples' discussions and act like
you're some great teacher of all that God knows
and wishes to share with those of us whom you
apparently consider a lower form of life, but it
seems that you think of it as gracing us with your
presence, for which you seem to think we should
be grateful. But the reality is, that you're not as
smart as you think you are and you are usually
more interested in appearing to a genius, than
you are with truth. Your hypocritical statement
above does not interest me.
Furthermore, you have gall telling me what I should
and should not say to you, when you call me a heretic
and say that I don't love God, you hypocrite!!!
--
Life has many choices. Eternity has two. What's yours?
.
|
|
| User: " ::: good news :::" |
|
| Title: Re: CHUCK: Carnal Man Doctrine Post |
14 Dec 2007 09:50:48 PM |
|
|
Chuck has left the group over the Christmas time and will be back in
2008. He announced this in ACC, and posters should read the posts before
discrediting others for not answering...
--
___________________________________________________
::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::::::
::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::::::
::::::: http://www.e-sword.net :::::::
::::::: http://alpha.org/default.asp :::::::
In news:n3j6m3d346il2p00aqospt4ehn3ndmp6l2@4ax.com,
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> typed:
Chuck,
You never answered the following response from me:
.
|
|
|
|
| User: " ::: good news :::" |
|
| Title: Re: CHUCK: Carnal Man Doctrine Post |
14 Dec 2007 09:50:54 PM |
|
|
Chuck has left the group over the Christmas time and will be back in
2008. He announced this in ACC, and posters should read the posts before
discrediting others for not answering...
--
___________________________________________________
::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::::::
::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::::::
::::::: http://www.e-sword.net :::::::
::::::: http://alpha.org/default.asp :::::::
In news:n3j6m3d346il2p00aqospt4ehn3ndmp6l2@4ax.com,
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> typed:
Chuck,
You never answered the following response from me:
.
|
|
|
|
| User: " ::: good news :::" |
|
| Title: Re: CHUCK: Carnal Man Doctrine Post |
14 Dec 2007 09:51:05 PM |
|
|
Chuck has left the group over the Christmas time and will be back in
2008. He announced this in ACC, and posters should read the posts before
discrediting others for not answering...
--
___________________________________________________
::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::::::
::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::::::
::::::: http://www.e-sword.net :::::::
::::::: http://alpha.org/default.asp :::::::
In news:n3j6m3d346il2p00aqospt4ehn3ndmp6l2@4ax.com,
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> typed:
Chuck,
You never answered the following response from me:
.
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
