| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Fred A Stover" |
| Date: |
18 Aug 2007 06:30:33 PM |
| Object: |
Codex Sinaiticus |
In the margin of my Bible, this note accompanies Mark 16:9: "Some of the
oldest manuscripts do not contain Mark 16:9-20."
It refers to the two Alexandian texts, Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus.
In the Codex Vaticanus, the copyist was aware of the verses, for he normally
began the next book at the top of the next column, except at the end of Mark
where there is a blank column between the end of Mark and the next book. It
is the only blank column in the text.
The Codex Sinaiticus is different. In the Codex Sinaiticus the verses were
removed, pumiced out, but not completely as you can see for yourself at:
http://www.csntm.org/Manuscripts/GA%2001/GA01_029a.jpg
To get to the page, search Codex Sinaiticus for Mark 16:8, the verse before
the erasure.
His,
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon hota akoueto Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
.
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| User: "r m r m@hotmailDOTcom" |
|
| Title: Re: Codex Sinaiticus |
19 Aug 2007 12:56:24 AM |
|
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"Fred A Stover" <fredstover7@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:uiLxi.4134$i75.1230@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net...
In the margin of my Bible, this note accompanies Mark 16:9: "Some of the
oldest manuscripts do not contain Mark 16:9-20."
It refers to the two Alexandian texts, Codex Sinaiticus and Codex
Vaticanus.
In the Codex Vaticanus, the copyist was aware of the verses, for he
normally
began the next book at the top of the next column, except at the end of
Mark
where there is a blank column between the end of Mark and the next book.
It
is the only blank column in the text.
The Codex Sinaiticus is different. In the Codex Sinaiticus the verses
were
removed, pumiced out, but not completely as you can see for yourself at:
Fred, the ghosty bit in that image is the 'bleed' from the back side of the
page (the ghost text is mirror reversed and runs under the regular text as
well). The space left in the second column is not enough to fit the
standard ending. About a third down in that second colum, the final words
reads "According to Mark"
Luke starts on the third column from the left: it reads "According to Luke"
just above the beginning of the text.
Cheers.
http://www.csntm.org/Manuscripts/GA%2001/GA01_029a.jpg
To get to the page, search Codex Sinaiticus for Mark 16:8, the verse
before
the erasure.
His,
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon hota akoueto Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as
a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
.
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| User: "Fred A Stover" |
|
| Title: Re: Codex Sinaiticus |
19 Aug 2007 01:57:22 AM |
|
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"r m" <r m@hotmailDOTcom> wrote in message
news:46c7db6d$0$22253$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"Fred A Stover" <fredstover7@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:uiLxi.4134$i75.1230@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net...
In the margin of my Bible, this note accompanies Mark 16:9: "Some of the
oldest manuscripts do not contain Mark 16:9-20."
It refers to the two Alexandian texts, Codex Sinaiticus and Codex
Vaticanus.
In the Codex Vaticanus, the copyist was aware of the verses, for he
normally
began the next book at the top of the next column, except at the end of
Mark
where there is a blank column between the end of Mark and the next book.
It
is the only blank column in the text.
The Codex Sinaiticus is different. In the Codex Sinaiticus the verses
were
removed, pumiced out, but not completely as you can see for yourself at:
Fred, the ghosty bit in that image is the 'bleed' from the back side of
the
page (the ghost text is mirror reversed and runs under the regular text as
well). The space left in the second column is not enough to fit the
standard ending. About a third down in that second colum, the final words
reads "According to Mark"
Luke starts on the third column from the left: it reads "According to
Luke"
just above the beginning of the text.
Cheers.
There is nothing on the backside and the x's marking what to remove are on
the front side.
Textual critics and scholars who have seen the text have been commenting on
the erasure as far back as I can remember, but until recectly you had to go
to London to see it. So, when I heard it was going to be on-line I started
looking for it, and it shows up.
His,
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon hota akoueto Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon hota akoueto Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
There was nothing on the back and its at the British Museum in London to see
for yourself. The erasure has been widely reported by textual critics and
scholars who have seen the text, but it is now online and it shows up
online.
His,
.
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| User: "r m r m@hotmailDOTcom" |
|
| Title: Re: Codex Sinaiticus |
19 Aug 2007 03:36:54 AM |
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"Fred A Stover" <fredstover7@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:mRRxi.34020$2v1.3249@newssvr14.news.prodigy.net...
"r m" <r m@hotmailDOTcom> wrote in message
news:46c7db6d$0$22253$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
"Fred A Stover" <fredstover7@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:uiLxi.4134$i75.1230@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net...
In the margin of my Bible, this note accompanies Mark 16:9: "Some of
the
oldest manuscripts do not contain Mark 16:9-20."
It refers to the two Alexandian texts, Codex Sinaiticus and Codex
Vaticanus.
In the Codex Vaticanus, the copyist was aware of the verses, for he
normally
began the next book at the top of the next column, except at the end
of
Mark
where there is a blank column between the end of Mark and the next
book.
It
is the only blank column in the text.
The Codex Sinaiticus is different. In the Codex Sinaiticus the verses
were
removed, pumiced out, but not completely as you can see for yourself
at:
Fred, the ghosty bit in that image is the 'bleed' from the back side of
the
page (the ghost text is mirror reversed and runs under the regular text
as
well). The space left in the second column is not enough to fit the
standard ending. About a third down in that second colum, the final
words
reads "According to Mark"
Luke starts on the third column from the left: it reads "According to
Luke"
just above the beginning of the text.
Cheers.
There is nothing on the backside and the x's marking what to remove are
on
the front side.
I can't explain the markings except they look like decorative elements to
terminate the passage. It differs at every gospel or letter ending.
A codex is like a book. "Codex: manuscript book, especially of Scripture,
early literature, or ancient mythological or historical annals. The
earliest type of manuscript in the form of a modern book (i.e., a
collection of written pages stitched together along one side), the codex
replaced the earlier rolls of papyrus and wax tablets. The codex had
several advantages over the roll, or scroll. It could be opened at once to
any point in the text, it enabled one to write on both sides of the leaf,
and it could contain long texts. " Enc Brit.
As far as I can tell, Sinaitcus follows that description (see also
http://ekthesis.blogspot.com/2007/02/binding-of-codex-sinaiticus.html).
For example; this is end of John's gospel
http://www.csntm.org/Manuscripts/GA%2001/GA01_061a.jpg and the mirror
reverse showing thru the vellum
http://www.csntm.org/Manuscripts/GA%2001/GA01_061b.jpg.
So, to the end of Mark
http://www.csntm.org/Manuscripts/GA%2001/GA01_029a.jpg , the other side of
the leaf http://www.csntm.org/Manuscripts/GA%2001/GA01_029b.jpg shows the
reversed "Kata Lukan" above the second column where expected. The scan
numbering indicates that "a" is the front-side, and "b" the back-side of
leaf 29.
Textual critics and scholars who have seen the text have been commenting
on
the erasure as far back as I can remember, but until recectly you had to
go
to London to see it. So, when I heard it was going to be on-line I
started
looking for it, and it shows up.
I don' think the new scans are available yet. Methinks we are looking at
older scans at the mo until the scanning project is completed in 2010.
Cheers.
His,
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon hota akoueto Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as
a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon hota akoueto Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as
a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
There was nothing on the back and its at the British Museum in London to
see
for yourself. The erasure has been widely reported by textual critics and
scholars who have seen the text, but it is now online and it shows up
online.
His,
.
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| User: "Fred A Stover" |
|
| Title: Re: Codex Sinaiticus |
19 Aug 2007 03:01:08 AM |
|
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"r m" <r m@hotmailDOTcom> wrote in message
news:46c7db6d$0$22253$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
I owe you an apology. I got an email telling me there was bleeding through
from the original page on his monitor screen. I assumed you were referring
to bleeding through from the photo itself, where there was nothing to bleed
through. He's going to try some special effects with some photo software to
see if he can determine if its residual from the erasure or bleedthrough and
let me know if he can determine it..
In the meantime, all I can suggest is look at how the other books end, which
is different.
His,
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon hota akoueto Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
.
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| User: "r m r m@hotmailDOTcom" |
|
| Title: Re: Codex Sinaiticus |
19 Aug 2007 03:43:21 AM |
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"Fred A Stover" <fredstover7@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:9NSxi.4193$i75.3745@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net...
"r m" <r m@hotmailDOTcom> wrote in message
news:46c7db6d$0$22253$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
I owe you an apology. ...
No worries.
... I got an email telling me there was bleeding through
from the original page on his monitor screen. I assumed you were
referring
to bleeding through from the photo itself, where there was nothing to
bleed
through. He's going to try some special effects with some photo software
to
see if he can determine if its residual from the erasure or bleedthrough
and
let me know if he can determine it..
In the meantime, all I can suggest is look at how the other books end,
which
is different.
I reversed the image of sides A and B in Photoshop and did the same for the
B side at the end of John' gospel, and am inclined toward the bleeding
thingy for the mo.
Cheers.
His,
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon hota akoueto Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as
a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
.
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| User: "Jude de Garbage" |
|
| Title: Re: Codex Sinaiticus |
19 Aug 2007 10:23:18 AM |
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"Fred A Stover" <fredstover7@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:9NSxi.4193$i75.3745@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net...
"r m" <r m@hotmailDOTcom> wrote in message
news:46c7db6d$0$22253$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
I owe you an apology. I got an email telling me there was bleeding through
from the original page on his monitor screen. I assumed you were referring
to bleeding through from the photo itself, where there was nothing to
bleed
through. He's going to try some special effects with some photo software
to
see if he can determine if its residual from the erasure or bleedthrough
and
let me know if he can determine it..
In the meantime, all I can suggest is look at how the other books end,
which
is different.
Damn if is isn't a bleed through. On just a short inspection, you can see
the opposite slant to a couple of "As" and a single "Y" for one thing.
His,
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon hota akoueto Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
.
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| User: "Fred A Stover" |
|
| Title: Re: Codex Sinaiticus |
19 Aug 2007 01:13:44 PM |
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"Jude de Garbage" <Cajun@thebayou.wet> wrote in message
news:acZxi.22933$t9.3337@bignews7.bellsouth.net...
"Fred A Stover" <fredstover7@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:9NSxi.4193$i75.3745@newssvr19.news.prodigy.net...
"r m" <r m@hotmailDOTcom> wrote in message
news:46c7db6d$0$22253$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au...
I owe you an apology. I got an email telling me there was bleeding
through
from the original page on his monitor screen. I assumed you were
referring
to bleeding through from the photo itself, where there was nothing to
bleed
through. He's going to try some special effects with some photo software
to
see if he can determine if its residual from the erasure or bleedthrough
and
let me know if he can determine it..
In the meantime, all I can suggest is look at how the other books end,
which
is different.
Damn if is isn't a bleed through. On just a short inspection, you can see
the opposite slant to a couple of "As" and a single "Y" for one thing.
Not on my monitor you can't, but I got a email from someone who could see
it, who did see some characters (lamba and epsilon) pointing in the right
direction (ie written on the side facing, and he thought a kappa pointing
the other way (bleeding through). He's going to see if he can use some of
the visual-effects on his photography software to see if he can be certain
one way or the other.
His,
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon hota akoueto Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
.
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| User: "Sam Taylor" |
|
| Title: Re: Codex Sinaiticus |
19 Aug 2007 07:34:19 PM |
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On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 18:30:33 -0500, "Fred A Stover"
<fredstover7@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
acording to the newberry refernce bible (KJV Krugel)
You must incluse the Syriatic, and other text including the and of the
4 alexandrinus text as well as any of the numerus Sinaticus texts.
and the scripture notes any text before 436 CE
In the margin of my Bible, this note accompanies Mark 16:9: "Some of the
oldest manuscripts do not contain Mark 16:9-20."
It refers to the two Alexandian texts, Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus.
In the Codex Vaticanus, the copyist was aware of the verses, for he normally
began the next book at the top of the next column, except at the end of Mark
where there is a blank column between the end of Mark and the next book. It
is the only blank column in the text.
The Codex Sinaiticus is different. In the Codex Sinaiticus the verses were
removed, pumiced out, but not completely as you can see for yourself at:
http://www.csntm.org/Manuscripts/GA%2001/GA01_029a.jpg
To get to the page, search Codex Sinaiticus for Mark 16:8, the verse before
the erasure.
His,
.
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| User: "Fred A Stover" |
|
| Title: Re: Codex Sinaiticus |
20 Aug 2007 01:08:33 AM |
|
|
"Sam Taylor" <cygnet@cncnet.com> wrote in message
news:u5ohc392mqvqvp689du4nrbfhd21m63j2v@4ax.com...
On Sat, 18 Aug 2007 18:30:33 -0500, "Fred A Stover"
<fredstover7@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
acording to the newberry refernce bible (KJV Krugel)
You must incluse the Syriatic, and other text including the and of the
4 alexandrinus text as well as any of the numerus Sinaticus texts.
and the scripture notes any text before 436 CE
Except the later copies derive from from earlier copies than the earliest
extant copies.
His,
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon hota akoueto Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
In the margin of my Bible, this note accompanies Mark 16:9: "Some of the
oldest manuscripts do not contain Mark 16:9-20."
It refers to the two Alexandian texts, Codex Sinaiticus and Codex
Vaticanus.
In the Codex Vaticanus, the copyist was aware of the verses, for he
normally
began the next book at the top of the next column, except at the end of
Mark
where there is a blank column between the end of Mark and the next book.
It
is the only blank column in the text.
The Codex Sinaiticus is different. In the Codex Sinaiticus the verses
were
removed, pumiced out, but not completely as you can see for yourself at:
http://www.csntm.org/Manuscripts/GA%2001/GA01_029a.jpg
To get to the page, search Codex Sinaiticus for Mark 16:8, the verse
before
the erasure.
.
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| User: "Nomen Nescio" |
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| Title: Re: Codex Sinaiticus |
18 Aug 2007 09:10:06 PM |
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On Sat, 18 Aug 2007, "Fred A Stover" <fredstover7@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In the margin of my Bible, this note accompanies Mark 16:9: "Some of the
oldest manuscripts do not contain Mark 16:9-20."
It refers to the two Alexandian texts, Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus.
In the Codex Vaticanus, the copyist was aware of the verses, for he normally
began the next book at the top of the next column, except at the end of Mark
where there is a blank column between the end of Mark and the next book. It
is the only blank column in the text.
The Codex Sinaiticus is different. In the Codex Sinaiticus the verses were
removed, pumiced out, but not completely as you can see for yourself at:
http://www.csntm.org/Manuscripts/GA%2001/GA01_029a.jpg
To get to the page, search Codex Sinaiticus for Mark 16:8, the verse before
the erasure.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Also, these same verses appear in the Latin Vulgate,
at a time when original texts were far more extant:
"9 surgens autem mane prima sabbati apparuit primo
Mariae Magdalenae de qua eiecerat septem daemonia
10 illa vadens nuntiavit his qui ***** eo fuerant
lugentibus et flentibus
11 et illi audientes quia viveret et visus esset
ab ea non crediderunt
12 post haec autem duobus ex eis ambulantibus
ostensus est in alia effigie euntibus in villam
13 et illi euntes nuntiaverunt ceteris nec illis
crediderunt
14 novissime recumbentibus illis undecim apparuit
et exprobravit incredulitatem illorum et duritiam
cordis quia his qui viderant eum resurrexisse non
crediderant
15 et dixit eis euntes in mundum universum
praedicate evangelium omni creaturae
16 qui crediderit et baptizatus fuerit salvus
erit qui vero non crediderit condemnabitur
17 signa autem eos qui crediderint haec sequentur
in nomine meo daemonia eicient linguis loquentur
novis
18 serpentes tollent et si mortiferum quid
biberint non eos nocebit super aegrotos manus
inponent et bene habebunt
19 et Dominus quidem postquam locutus est eis
adsumptus est in caelum et sedit a dextris Dei
20 illi autem profecti praedicaverunt ubique
Domino cooperante et sermonem confirmante
sequentibus signis" [end quote]
In Vigilance,
Daniel Joseph Min
http://www.2hot2cool.com/11/danieljosephmin/
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
iQA/AwUBRseQHJljD7YrHM/nEQJQkwCgqrxEM6cW8duA8PDZ1cBXzQQ7inMAoIfL
p4ZC1z1HlklJ5+pa5H76Agcu
=1p0n
-----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
.
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| User: "Fred A Stover" |
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| Title: Re: Codex Sinaiticus |
18 Aug 2007 09:29:23 PM |
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"Nomen Nescio" <nobody@dizum.com> wrote in message
news:739741534a0d505145e7066a2d0446fe@dizum.com...
On Sat, 18 Aug 2007, "Fred A Stover" <fredstover7@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In the margin of my Bible, this note accompanies Mark 16:9: "Some of the
oldest manuscripts do not contain Mark 16:9-20."
It refers to the two Alexandian texts, Codex Sinaiticus and Codex
Vaticanus.
In the Codex Vaticanus, the copyist was aware of the verses, for he
normally
began the next book at the top of the next column, except at the end of
Mark
where there is a blank column between the end of Mark and the next book.
It
is the only blank column in the text.
The Codex Sinaiticus is different. In the Codex Sinaiticus the verses
were
removed, pumiced out, but not completely as you can see for yourself at:
http://www.csntm.org/Manuscripts/GA%2001/GA01_029a.jpg
To get to the page, search Codex Sinaiticus for Mark 16:8, the verse
before
the erasure.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Also, these same verses appear in the Latin Vulgate,
at a time when original texts were far more extant:
"9 surgens autem mane prima sabbati apparuit primo
Mariae Magdalenae de qua eiecerat septem daemonia
10 illa vadens nuntiavit his qui ***** eo fuerant
lugentibus et flentibus
11 et illi audientes quia viveret et visus esset
ab ea non crediderunt
12 post haec autem duobus ex eis ambulantibus
ostensus est in alia effigie euntibus in villam
13 et illi euntes nuntiaverunt ceteris nec illis
crediderunt
14 novissime recumbentibus illis undecim apparuit
et exprobravit incredulitatem illorum et duritiam
cordis quia his qui viderant eum resurrexisse non
crediderant
15 et dixit eis euntes in mundum universum
praedicate evangelium omni creaturae
16 qui crediderit et baptizatus fuerit salvus
erit qui vero non crediderit condemnabitur
17 signa autem eos qui crediderint haec sequentur
in nomine meo daemonia eicient linguis loquentur
novis
18 serpentes tollent et si mortiferum quid
biberint non eos nocebit super aegrotos manus
inponent et bene habebunt
19 et Dominus quidem postquam locutus est eis
adsumptus est in caelum et sedit a dextris Dei
20 illi autem profecti praedicaverunt ubique
Domino cooperante et sermonem confirmante
sequentibus signis" [end quote]
In Vigilance,
Daniel Joseph Min
http://www.2hot2cool.com/11/danieljosephmin/
From the extant copies, which don't include the verses, it's apparent that
the text from which they were copied included them.
I had always suspected that it was marred and illegible, but they were
removed in the Sinaiticus. Someone didn't like them.
His,
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon hota akoueto Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
.
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| User: "Jude Alexander" |
|
| Title: Re: Codex Sinaiticus |
19 Aug 2007 10:14:45 AM |
|
|
"Fred A Stover" <fredstover7@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:7WNxi.2228$LL7.494@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...
"Nomen Nescio" <nobody@dizum.com> wrote in message
news:739741534a0d505145e7066a2d0446fe@dizum.com...
On Sat, 18 Aug 2007, "Fred A Stover" <fredstover7@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In the margin of my Bible, this note accompanies Mark 16:9: "Some of the
oldest manuscripts do not contain Mark 16:9-20."
It refers to the two Alexandian texts, Codex Sinaiticus and Codex
Vaticanus.
In the Codex Vaticanus, the copyist was aware of the verses, for he
normally
began the next book at the top of the next column, except at the end of
Mark
where there is a blank column between the end of Mark and the next book.
It
is the only blank column in the text.
The Codex Sinaiticus is different. In the Codex Sinaiticus the verses
were
removed, pumiced out, but not completely as you can see for yourself at:
http://www.csntm.org/Manuscripts/GA%2001/GA01_029a.jpg
To get to the page, search Codex Sinaiticus for Mark 16:8, the verse
before
the erasure.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Also, these same verses appear in the Latin Vulgate,
at a time when original texts were far more extant:
"9 surgens autem mane prima sabbati apparuit primo
Mariae Magdalenae de qua eiecerat septem daemonia
10 illa vadens nuntiavit his qui ***** eo fuerant
lugentibus et flentibus
11 et illi audientes quia viveret et visus esset
ab ea non crediderunt
12 post haec autem duobus ex eis ambulantibus
ostensus est in alia effigie euntibus in villam
13 et illi euntes nuntiaverunt ceteris nec illis
crediderunt
14 novissime recumbentibus illis undecim apparuit
et exprobravit incredulitatem illorum et duritiam
cordis quia his qui viderant eum resurrexisse non
crediderant
15 et dixit eis euntes in mundum universum
praedicate evangelium omni creaturae
16 qui crediderit et baptizatus fuerit salvus
erit qui vero non crediderit condemnabitur
17 signa autem eos qui crediderint haec sequentur
in nomine meo daemonia eicient linguis loquentur
novis
18 serpentes tollent et si mortiferum quid
biberint non eos nocebit super aegrotos manus
inponent et bene habebunt
19 et Dominus quidem postquam locutus est eis
adsumptus est in caelum et sedit a dextris Dei
20 illi autem profecti praedicaverunt ubique
Domino cooperante et sermonem confirmante
sequentibus signis" [end quote]
In Vigilance,
Daniel Joseph Min
http://www.2hot2cool.com/11/danieljosephmin/
From the extant copies, which don't include the verses, it's apparent that
the text from which they were copied included them.
I had always suspected that it was marred and illegible, but they were
removed in the Sinaiticus. Someone didn't like them.
This is your fanciful thinking that you got on your own or you read it
somewhere. There is no way that we can know why the first text didn't
include them and then they were included. There could a number of different
reasons. It could have been discovered to be a fake insertion after the
originals. Whos to know?
.
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| User: "Fred A Stover" |
|
| Title: Re: Codex Sinaiticus |
19 Aug 2007 01:08:15 PM |
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"Jude Alexander" <Cajun@thebayou.wet> wrote in message
news:94Zxi.22925$t9.14209@bignews7.bellsouth.net...
"Fred A Stover" <fredstover7@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:7WNxi.2228$LL7.494@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...
"Nomen Nescio" <nobody@dizum.com> wrote in message
news:739741534a0d505145e7066a2d0446fe@dizum.com...
On Sat, 18 Aug 2007, "Fred A Stover" <fredstover7@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In the margin of my Bible, this note accompanies Mark 16:9: "Some of
the
oldest manuscripts do not contain Mark 16:9-20."
It refers to the two Alexandian texts, Codex Sinaiticus and Codex
Vaticanus.
In the Codex Vaticanus, the copyist was aware of the verses, for he
normally
began the next book at the top of the next column, except at the end
of
Mark
where there is a blank column between the end of Mark and the next
book.
It
is the only blank column in the text.
The Codex Sinaiticus is different. In the Codex Sinaiticus the verses
were
removed, pumiced out, but not completely as you can see for yourself
at:
http://www.csntm.org/Manuscripts/GA%2001/GA01_029a.jpg
To get to the page, search Codex Sinaiticus for Mark 16:8, the verse
before
the erasure.
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Also, these same verses appear in the Latin Vulgate,
at a time when original texts were far more extant:
"9 surgens autem mane prima sabbati apparuit primo
Mariae Magdalenae de qua eiecerat septem daemonia
10 illa vadens nuntiavit his qui ***** eo fuerant
lugentibus et flentibus
11 et illi audientes quia viveret et visus esset
ab ea non crediderunt
12 post haec autem duobus ex eis ambulantibus
ostensus est in alia effigie euntibus in villam
13 et illi euntes nuntiaverunt ceteris nec illis
crediderunt
14 novissime recumbentibus illis undecim apparuit
et exprobravit incredulitatem illorum et duritiam
cordis quia his qui viderant eum resurrexisse non
crediderant
15 et dixit eis euntes in mundum universum
praedicate evangelium omni creaturae
16 qui crediderit et baptizatus fuerit salvus
erit qui vero non crediderit condemnabitur
17 signa autem eos qui crediderint haec sequentur
in nomine meo daemonia eicient linguis loquentur
novis
18 serpentes tollent et si mortiferum quid
biberint non eos nocebit super aegrotos manus
inponent et bene habebunt
19 et Dominus quidem postquam locutus est eis
adsumptus est in caelum et sedit a dextris Dei
20 illi autem profecti praedicaverunt ubique
Domino cooperante et sermonem confirmante
sequentibus signis" [end quote]
In Vigilance,
Daniel Joseph Min
http://www.2hot2cool.com/11/danieljosephmin/
From the extant copies, which don't include the verses, it's apparent
that
the text from which they were copied included them.
I had always suspected that it was marred and illegible, but they were
removed in the Sinaiticus. Someone didn't like them.
This is your fanciful thinking that you got on your own or you read it
somewhere. There is no way that we can know why the first text didn't
include them and then they were included. There could a number of
different
reasons. It could have been discovered to be a fake insertion after the
originals. Whos to know?
You haven't heard either? He's alive!
His,
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon hota akoueto Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
.
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| User: "Nomen Nescio" |
|
| Title: Re: Codex Sinaiticus |
19 Aug 2007 02:10:02 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 19 Aug 2007, "Jude Alexander" <Cajun@thebayou.wet> wrote:
"Fred A Stover" <fredstover7@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:7WNxi.2228$LL7.494@nlpi069.nbdc.sbc.com...
"Nomen Nescio" <nobody@dizum.com> wrote in message
news:739741534a0d505145e7066a2d0446fe@dizum.com...
On Sat, 18 Aug 2007, "Fred A Stover" <fredstover7@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
In the margin of my Bible, this note accompanies Mark 16:9: "Some of the
oldest manuscripts do not contain Mark 16:9-20."
It refers to the two Alexandian texts, Codex Sinaiticus and Codex Vaticanus.
In the Codex Vaticanus, the copyist was aware of the verses, for he normally
began the next book at the top of the next column, except at the end of Mark
where there is a blank column between the end of Mark and the next book. It
is the only blank column in the text.
The Codex Sinaiticus is different. In the Codex Sinaiticus the verses were
removed, pumiced out, but not completely as you can see for yourself at:
http://www.csntm.org/Manuscripts/GA%2001/GA01_029a.jpg
To get to the page, search Codex Sinaiticus for Mark 16:8, the verse before
the erasure.
Also, these same verses appear in the Latin Vulgate,
at a time when original texts were far more extant:
"9 surgens autem mane prima sabbati apparuit primo
Mariae Magdalenae de qua eiecerat septem daemonia
10 illa vadens nuntiavit his qui ***** eo fuerant
lugentibus et flentibus
11 et illi audientes quia viveret et visus esset
ab ea non crediderunt
12 post haec autem duobus ex eis ambulantibus
ostensus est in alia effigie euntibus in villam
13 et illi euntes nuntiaverunt ceteris nec illis
crediderunt
14 novissime recumbentibus illis undecim apparuit
et exprobravit incredulitatem illorum et duritiam
cordis quia his qui viderant eum resurrexisse non
crediderant
15 et dixit eis euntes in mundum universum
praedicate evangelium omni creaturae
16 qui crediderit et baptizatus fuerit salvus
erit qui vero non crediderit condemnabitur
17 signa autem eos qui crediderint haec sequentur
in nomine meo daemonia eicient linguis loquentur
novis
18 serpentes tollent et si mortiferum quid
biberint non eos nocebit super aegrotos manus
inponent et bene habebunt
19 et Dominus quidem postquam locutus est eis
adsumptus est in caelum et sedit a dextris Dei
20 illi autem profecti praedicaverunt ubique
Domino cooperante et sermonem confirmante
sequentibus signis" [end quote]
From the extant copies, which don't include the verses, it's apparent that
the text from which they were copied included them.
I had always suspected that it was marred and illegible, but they were
removed in the Sinaiticus. Someone didn't like them.
This is your fanciful thinking that you got on your own or you read it
somewhere. There is no way that we can know why the first text didn't
include them and then they were included. There could a number of different
reasons. It could have been discovered to be a fake insertion after the
originals. Whos to know?
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Only the millions of devout believers in Jesus Christ believe on
Him & in His testimony, and in the 1000 & two witnesses who bear
faithful witness to Him that He, Jesus, is the Christ Son of the
Living God, the Rock of Ages. That's the genesis of Christianity.
Unless you're a true believer in Jesus Christ, you'll never know,
but shall continue to perish, and shall not be spared the second
death. IMHO, the first step to believing is to learn to see your
own ego-self objectively. That takes practice, practice, practice...
Do What Thou Wilt (Leviticus 5:17),
Daniel Joseph Min
http://www.2hot2cool.com/11/danieljosephmin/
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HJ2SDTtdKvrb6/dzPfh2oLd3
=DNnS
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