| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Streamer" |
| Date: |
14 Dec 2004 08:43:09 PM |
| Object: |
Consulting the dead. |
The Bible condemns necromancy (consulting the dead).
Prayers to "saints" who have died are sinful.
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Let there not be found among you anyone who immolates his son or daughter in
the fire, nor a fortune-teller, soothsayer, charmer, diviner, or caster of
spells, nor one who consults ghosts and spirits or seeks oracles from the
dead. (Deuteronomy 18:10-11)
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When Jesus' disciples asked him how they were to pray, Jesus didn't tell
them to consult dead "saints." He told them to pray directly to God, their
Father (Luke 11:1-4).
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| User: "Streamer" |
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| Title: Re: Clearing a misunderstanding |
17 Dec 2004 07:47:24 PM |
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"RS" <rswarts@bu.edu> wrote in message news:cpubd8$fem$1@news3.bu.edu...
"Streamer" <Stream_Haze@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:z2wwd.2583$FO1.942@fe12.lga...
If Christ is in you, why don't you follow the word of God instread of
following what RCC told you which is not in the Bible?
Streamer, do you know my actions? Do you hear my prayers? You know what
I have written here, which is a small fraction of what my faith is. I am
a Roman Catholic, yes. The Roman Catholic has doctrine which, in my eyes
and studies, is sound in scripture. I have given you evidence as to the
justifiation of Church doctrine within scripture yet you blindly ignore it
and keep asking for proof.
You just follow your own doctrines & ignore God's word.
I give you proof, you ignore it and ask for proof.
Your own man made doctrines & teachings is not a proof.
This is exactly what the Jews did in the gospel of John when they kept
asking Christ "Who are you?". Christ responded "I have told you who I am
yet you did not believe. And you still ask me "Who are you?"
Jesus answered them from the word of God.
You didn't.
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| User: "RS" |
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| Title: Re: Clearing a misunderstanding |
17 Dec 2004 11:39:35 PM |
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"Streamer" <Stream_Haze@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b4Mwd.2873$iD4.1937@fe12.lga...
"RS" <rswarts@bu.edu> wrote in message news:cpubd8$fem$1@news3.bu.edu...
"Streamer" <Stream_Haze@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:z2wwd.2583$FO1.942@fe12.lga...
If Christ is in you, why don't you follow the word of God instread of
following what RCC told you which is not in the Bible?
Streamer, do you know my actions? Do you hear my prayers? You know what
I have written here, which is a small fraction of what my faith is. I am
a Roman Catholic, yes. The Roman Catholic has doctrine which, in my eyes
and studies, is sound in scripture. I have given you evidence as to the
justifiation of Church doctrine within scripture yet you blindly ignore
it and keep asking for proof.
You just follow your own doctrines & ignore God's word.
I give you proof, you ignore it and ask for proof.
Your own man made doctrines & teachings is not a proof.
This is exactly what the Jews did in the gospel of John when they kept
asking Christ "Who are you?". Christ responded "I have told you who I am
yet you did not believe. And you still ask me "Who are you?"
Jesus answered them from the word of God.
You didn't.
Though I give you direct evidence, all you do is say "you just follow your
own doctrines and ignore GOd's word" or "Your own man made doctrines and
teachings is not proof."
I have given dozens of scriptural references and justifications FROM
SCRIPTURE and all of them have gone unanswered! Why? Because you do not
know how to answer them because you know them to be proper analyses.
Do not proclaim my argument based in scripture is man-made. When I offer
justifcation from scripture, that is not man-made justifcation, but
interpretation sent from God to those who are blind to the truth of the
Word, which you are.
When you offered me scriptural evidence, I analyzed it and responded to it.
My responses have gone ignored and unanswered. Why is that? Because the
Lord is not calling to you in this case. Only those whom the Lord calls can
handle the truth, and given the false and ignorant interpretations placed
forth by yourself and JW (I can look at all of your interpretations and
laugh, knowing that you are overreaching for broad assumptions to your
beliefs rather than reading what the passages really say in the context they
are written in), and ignoring... no... being BLIND to the truth of my faith
when it is presented to you.
You are the one who is coming here attacking my faith. I am defending the
gospel that Christ has given me.
-RS
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| User: "Streamer" |
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| Title: Re: Clearing a misunderstanding |
18 Dec 2004 12:20:32 AM |
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"RS" <rswarts@bu.edu> wrote in message news:cq0fr2$i7c$1@news3.bu.edu...
"Streamer" <Stream_Haze@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:b4Mwd.2873$iD4.1937@fe12.lga...
"RS" <rswarts@bu.edu> wrote in message news:cpubd8$fem$1@news3.bu.edu...
"Streamer" <Stream_Haze@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:z2wwd.2583$FO1.942@fe12.lga...
If Christ is in you, why don't you follow the word of God instread of
following what RCC told you which is not in the Bible?
Streamer, do you know my actions? Do you hear my prayers? You know
what I have written here, which is a small fraction of what my faith is.
I am a Roman Catholic, yes. The Roman Catholic has doctrine which, in
my eyes and studies, is sound in scripture. I have given you evidence
as to the justifiation of Church doctrine within scripture yet you
blindly ignore it and keep asking for proof.
You just follow your own doctrines & ignore God's word.
I give you proof, you ignore it and ask for proof.
Your own man made doctrines & teachings is not a proof.
This is exactly what the Jews did in the gospel of John when they kept
asking Christ "Who are you?". Christ responded "I have told you who I
am yet you did not believe. And you still ask me "Who are you?"
Jesus answered them from the word of God.
You didn't.
Though I give you direct evidence, all you do is say "you just follow your
own doctrines and ignore GOd's word" or "Your own man made doctrines and
teachings is not proof."
Which is true.
I have given dozens of scriptural references and justifications FROM
SCRIPTURE and all of them have gone unanswered! Why? Because you do not
know how to answer them because you know them to be proper analyses.
Do not proclaim my argument based in scripture is man-made. When I offer
justifcation from scripture, that is not man-made justifcation, but
interpretation sent from God to those who are blind to the truth of the
Word, which you are.
You gave your answer based on RCC doctrines & teachings.
When you offered me scriptural evidence, I analyzed it and responded to
it. My responses have gone ignored and unanswered. Why is that? Because
the Lord is not calling to you in this case. Only those whom the Lord
calls can handle the truth, and given the false and ignorant
interpretations placed forth by yourself and JW (I can look at all of your
interpretations and laugh, knowing that you are overreaching for broad
assumptions to your beliefs rather than reading what the passages really
say in the context they are written in), and ignoring... no... being BLIND
to the truth of my faith when it is presented to you.
Scriptures you've quoted either out of context or in no relation to the
topic.
Sometimes, you use scriptures to twist the truth and explained in using your
own personal translations.
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| User: "RS" |
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| Title: Re: Clearing a misunderstanding |
18 Dec 2004 12:34:27 AM |
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I want you to tell me, then, what scriptural passages I have quoted.
Without going back over my justifications, what have I quoted from scripture
in regards to what topic at hand?
I can do this for you because I paid attention to the scripture you gave to
me and I analyzed it. Can you do the same?
-RS
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| User: "Streamer" |
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| Title: Re: Clearing a misunderstanding |
18 Dec 2004 02:11:47 AM |
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"RS" <rswarts@bu.edu> wrote in message news:cq0j1t$c47$1@news3.bu.edu...
I want you to tell me, then, what scriptural passages I have quoted.
Without going back over my justifications, what have I quoted from
scripture in regards to what topic at hand?
I can do this for you because I paid attention to the scripture you gave
to me and I analyzed it. Can you do the same?
You know what. You totally deleted my post & didn't answer back ALL my
comments & questions, and you have the courage to tell me that?
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| User: "RS" |
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| Title: Re: Clearing a misunderstanding |
18 Dec 2004 02:18:37 PM |
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"Streamer" <Stream_Haze@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:AIRwd.2909$vg.2544@fe12.lga...
"RS" <rswarts@bu.edu> wrote in message news:cq0j1t$c47$1@news3.bu.edu...
I want you to tell me, then, what scriptural passages I have quoted.
Without going back over my justifications, what have I quoted from
scripture in regards to what topic at hand?
I can do this for you because I paid attention to the scripture you gave
to me and I analyzed it. Can you do the same?
You know what. You totally deleted my post & didn't answer back ALL my
comments & questions, and you have the courage to tell me that?
You apparently didn't get my question. I didn't delete your post, it is
written fully in the post right above mine. I read it and was responding to
one claim you made. If you don't remember what claim that was, you need to
step back and realize we are having a converation in a message group. Any
post you have made is still there. I don't need to copy and paste it over
and over again in order that we end up with a huge transcript of our
discussion at the end of the thread.
I asked you this:
Tell me what scriptural passages I have used without going back over my
posts. If you can do this, then I understand that you have actually read my
arguments. If you cannot do this, then I realize that you pushed them aside
or ignored them completely.
Here is a list of your comments from the post you claimed i didn't respond
to:
"Which is true" (where is the question and why would I respond)?
"You gave your answer based on RCC doctrine & teachings" (which is false
because I didn't cite Roman Catholic doctrine or teachings, but scripture)
"Scriptures you quoted either out of context or in no relation to the topic.
Somtimes, you use scriptures to twist the truth and explained in using your
own personal translations"
Firstly, I didn't translate scripture. I read it in english. I did,
however, interpret and derive meaning from it in a proper, faithful, and
learned way. Secondly, I asked you to show me (without overlooking my
posts) what scripture I did use. You can use the bible if you need to, in
order to recall the exact passage number. If, however, you can't do this
you have proven to me that you did nothing but ignore and overlook the
scripture I did give you and didn't read what I said about those passages.
When I examine and analyze scipture, you are to pull out your bible and read
the passage taking into light my justification. If you dont' do that, you
aren't participating equally in this debate BECAUSE you are not responding
to my SCRIPTURAL analysis. I am responding to your analyses. Why, then,
are you ignoring mine?
-RS
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| User: "j w" |
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| Title: Re: Clearing a misunderstanding |
15 Dec 2004 11:14:15 PM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 04:38:29 -0500, "RS" <rswarts@bu.edu> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
"Streamer" <Stream_Haze@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ahTvd.1666$xu.1438@fe12.lga...
Modernization that conflicts us to the original truth is wrong.
You forget, then, that it is your definition that was modernized. Church
doctrine has been steady and unwavering.
Okay. You don't pray but ask.
Did Jesus or His followers asks a dead person?
Jesus spoke directly to His father. Jesus had the power to answer prayers.
Why, then, would he pray to those whom He is saving?
As for the apostles in antiquity, little is known other than what they wrote
down. Many of their prayers are unknown, for their lives aren't explained
in much detail (only their mission).
We know they did not DEFY the commands of Christ. Who wrote the Bible
if not the apostles?
Sometimes/ too often, you merely spew what Rome has mistaught you.
You never seem to stop and consider that your rationalizing your sins
does NOT justify that the Bible says "X" and you instead decide "Y,"
and give 5 excuses.
Several of the apostles recorded that Jesus taught us to pray. So how
come you ignore His instructions? There are passages you follow to
the HILT. Why? Because Rome says so. Then there are passages you
IGNORE. Why? Because Rome says so! Does Rome save you? Or does
Christ?
As for the followers of Christ, millions (if not billions) have asked for
the intercession of the saints.
Don't call them "followers of Christ" as that heresy is not a teaching
of Christ or of His apostles.
Remember that we are followers of Christ,
and there have been followers before us.
And Paul took care of that. He said NO NEW teaching could be
introduced after the 1st C Bible was completed.
You commit apostasy when you follow OTHER teachings than scripture.
My asking the saints to join me in
prayer doesn't pull me further away from Christ, it brings me closer to Him.
Why are you praying to anyone BUT God? Jesus didn't give you
permission to do that?
Apparently, you choose to follow MEN, and NOT God. "You cannot serve
both God and mammon..."
jw
snipped the rest of the RCC vomit.
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| User: "RS" |
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| Title: Re: Clearing a misunderstanding |
16 Dec 2004 03:33:41 AM |
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"j w @yahoo.com>" <j_w<no> wrote in message
news:b462s0dgn68j1m9ikpqcj5t3cei7762h2c@4ax.com...
We know they did not DEFY the commands of Christ. Who wrote the Bible
if not the apostles?
What of when Paul rebuked Peter for acting improperly towards Gentiles?
Seems to me that they defied the commands of Christ in that matter.
Remember that Paul didn't know Jesus Christ during his mission. Everything
Paul knew was taught to him by the disciples or through visions, and a
certain number of the Pauline letters cannot be verified as being witten by
Paul. We still do not know the author of Mark, Luke, Matthew, and it is
even under descretion whether John was most suredly John the beloved
disciple.
Sometimes/ too often, you merely spew what Rome has mistaught you.
You never seem to stop and consider that your rationalizing your sins
does NOT justify that the Bible says "X" and you instead decide "Y,"
and give 5 excuses.
On the contary, most of what I placed forth in the chain of discussions
above were free from justification from apologetic websites. The vast
majority of it was discovered and clarified through my own religious studies
in university, with the guidance of many credible religious and historical
scholars.
Several of the apostles recorded that Jesus taught us to pray. So how
come you ignore His instructions? There are passages you follow to
the HILT.
Remember that the apostles asked Jesus how they should pray, and Jesus
taught them. When Jesus was teaching them how to pray, he wasn't talking to
me or to you. He was talking to the apostles who asked him. Jesus gave an
example of how to pray to the heavenly father. In that example, he didn't
say "this is exactly how you should pray and only how you should pray." If
He said that, everyone would be reciting the Lord's prayer and only the
Lord's prayer (which we don't).
Why? Because Rome says so.
Actually my prayers are my own, entirely free from Rome. Every prayer I say
is from my heart and therefore, my own individual prayer to God. Even
though certain prayers I recite were approved and worded by Catholic
leaders, if spoken from my heart, they become my own prayers to God. There
is one phenomenal prayer that I feel touches me very deeply, the prayer of
the millenium written for us by Pope John Paul II
Gracious God, we are your servants embraced by your love. We thank you for
your presence with us throughout all time. As we come to celebrate the life
before us, create us anew. Liberate us from that which keeps us from you.
Enable us to recreate this world and restore justice. Heal us from every
form of sin and violence. Transform us to live your Word more profoundly.
Reconcile us so that enemies become friends. Awaken us to the sacred,
nurture our relationship, enliven our parishes, and reunite our families.
Fill us with joy to celebrate teh fullness of life. Empower us to be a
community of love, growing in your likeness. Amen.
As for the followers of Christ, millions (if not billions) have asked for
the intercession of the saints.
Don't call them "followers of Christ" as that heresy is not a teaching
of Christ or of His apostles.
Why is it a heresy to call a Christian a follower of Christ? Do not
Christians follow Christ? If we do not follow Christ, then who do we
follow? I'm afraid I don't see heresy here. Christ's apostles were his
followers. We are disciples of Christ, are we not? Learning from Him and
His example, as well as from his apostles?
And Paul took care of that. He said NO NEW teaching could be
introduced after the 1st C Bible was completed.
The bible wasn't completed in the first century. It wasn't compiled until
around the year 200 CE. Where, as well, did Paul say this. Please point me
to the exact passage so I may analyze it and see what it is really saying.
You commit apostasy when you follow OTHER teachings than scripture.
Scripture is incomplete. It says so itself. Do you presume that God hasn't
sent us any prophets from the time the bible was collected until now?
Certainly there have been many people who recieved personal messages from
the Lord. I know I have recieved answers from the Lord. Though these
answers weren't written word for word in scripture, does that mean I am not
to follow them? No.
Why are you praying to anyone BUT God? Jesus didn't give you
permission to do that?
Here's what you keep doing:
Me: "My asking the saints to join me IN PRAYER doesn't pull me further away
from Christ, but brings me closer to Him."
You: "Why are you praying to anyone but God?"
Me: "I am not, I am asking the saints to join me in my prayers."
You: "Why are you praying to them?"
Me: "I am not, I am asking them to pray for me."
You: "That is praying to them, why are you praying to them?"
Me: "I am not, I am asking them to pray for me."
My point?
Asking someone to pray for you isn't praying to that person. Whether the
person is in heaven or on earth is no different. It is actually easier for
them to hear us in heaven, I presume, for they are not bound by any
imperfection in heaven (there are no confines in paradise).
In Revelations, John saw the elders and angels in heaven presenting to God
the prayers of the saints on earth. These elders and angels have to get
those prayers somehow. I feel that asking a saint who is already in heaven
with the Father to pray for a specific intention I may have is perfectly
justified. I am not asking the saint to give me secret information or show
me the future (an act of necromancy). I am merely asking the saint to pray
for me. That is not praying to the saint in your definition of the term
"prayer".
If you are going to argue against what our teachings are, at least know what
they are first rather than what you think they are.
In your "God and mammon" response, you are taking that completely out of
context.
Mammon is a pagan god of riches and money. This passage refers to the fact
that one has to store treasures in heaven and not on earth, not to worry
about material riches but spiritual ones and to live life like the birds in
the field and to concern oneself with clothing as the lilys do.
St. Francis, known for his preaching this passage before the Holy Father, is
a patron saint of mine, one I particularly study in order to grow in my
spiritual walk with God. I do follow men. It is not wrong to follow
someone. We do it all the time for we have many men and women who are
leaders, who lead us in many things. I do not follow them, however, as I
follow God. God is the center of my life. I attempt to do all things to
please Him. I only wish that you would look beyond your misunderstanding
and blind hatred and open your eyes to the common ground we share in Jesus
Christ.
You will be in my prayers.
-Rob
Apparently, you choose to follow MEN, and NOT God. "You cannot serve
both God and mammon..."
jw
snipped the rest of the RCC vomit.
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| User: "j w" |
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| Title: Re: Clearing a misunderstanding |
16 Dec 2004 10:35:05 AM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 04:33:41 -0500, "RS" <rswarts@bu.edu> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
"j w @yahoo.com>" <j_w<no> wrote in message
news:b462s0dgn68j1m9ikpqcj5t3cei7762h2c@4ax.com...
We know they did not DEFY the commands of Christ. Who wrote the Bible
if not the apostles?
What of when Paul rebuked Peter for acting improperly towards Gentiles?
Seems to me that they defied the commands of Christ in that matter.
Is it recorded? Yes. So we know that it happened, WHAT happened, and
WHY. And it is NOT an extra-Biblical teaching, which is what I was
referring to.
Jesus did NOT say, "pray, "Our Father..." and then John or James or
Paul said, "or you could pray to Moses..."
When Jesus said, repent and be baptized, Paul did NOT come after and
say, "or be baptized FIRST, as an infant, and then when you get ready,
believe."
The teachings of the apostles AMPLIFY what Jesus taught. They do NOT
CONTRADICT Him. Yet Rome contradicts Jesus and Yhwh almost with every
turn of the page.
I have said several times, Jesus gave us the OUTLINE, since He only
had 3 years. Paul and the other apostles, who had their entire
lifetimes, AMPLIFIED, and FILLED IN the outline given by Christ.
What the RCC has done, with YOUR CONSENT, is to trash the entire Bible
and write all new rules, taking God's power, and putting it in Rome.
Heresy!
Remember that Paul didn't know Jesus Christ during his mission.
Correct. Paul met the risen Christ on his way to Damascus. What's your
point?
Everything
Paul knew was taught to him by the disciples or through visions,
What is wrong with the concept of Paul being taught DIRECTLY BY THE
HOLY SPIRIT? Which is the claim Paul makes!
and a
certain number of the Pauline letters cannot be verified as being witten by
Paul.
How convenient! I have NEVER heard from any conservative scholar that
there is ANY question about who wrote 63 of the 66 books.
We still do not know the author of Mark, Luke, Matthew,
Says whom? Rome?
and it is
even under descretion whether John was most suredly John the beloved
disciple.
In such a case, the content is as important as the author. We also
don't know the author of Hebrews, but the teachings of Hebrews are
considered so VITAL to the Bible that it would have suffered had it
not been included.
Sometimes/ too often, you merely spew what Rome has mistaught you.
You never seem to stop and consider that your rationalizing your sins
does NOT justify that the Bible says "X" and you instead decide "Y,"
and give 5 excuses.
On the contary, most of what I placed forth in the chain of discussions
above were free from justification from apologetic websites.
I didn't mention any "apologetic websites." Some of you RCs are so
brainwashed, you have MEMORIZED the heresies perfectly. One GOOD case
in point is SL. Several who have quit posting or changed names are
VERY good with Roman Catholicism, but ***** puking poor when it comes
to basic Christianity and the Bible.
The vast
majority of it was discovered and clarified through my own religious studies
in university, with the guidance of many credible religious and historical
scholars.
Roman Catholic all.
Several of the apostles recorded that Jesus taught us to pray. So how
come you ignore His instructions? There are passages you follow to
the HILT.
Remember that the apostles asked Jesus how they should pray, and Jesus
taught them. When Jesus was teaching them how to pray, he wasn't talking to
me or to you. He was talking to the apostles who asked him.
Oh, PLEASE! You can ALWAYS find an excuse. How about 4 more, now.
Jesus taught us to pray. We are given 2 examples that I can think of.
If they were ONLY for the disciples who were there, they wouldn't have
needed recording. Besides, what is "cultural" about the Lord's Prayer
that would make it ineffective today?
Your "apologetics" is SO shallow, it's like popping balloons with a
pin. You tell me that those prayers were given to the apostles ALONE.
So why do YOU use them?
Jesus gave an
example of how to pray to the heavenly father.
Show me the word "example" in the passage. What He SAID was, "When YOU
pray, say, Our Father..."
In that example, he didn't
say "this is exactly how you should pray and only how you should pray."
That is EXACTLY what He said.
If
He said that, everyone would be reciting the Lord's prayer and only the
Lord's prayer (which we don't).
Oh, give me a break! You have never let the Bible or Jesus stop you
from doing as you damn well please.
And I'm about to puke again.
jw
snipped to puke
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| User: "RS" |
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| Title: Re: Clearing a misunderstanding |
16 Dec 2004 11:03:39 AM |
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"go to them, preach to them, baptize them"
"go to them, baptize them, preach to them"
Both those statements are equivalent.
A & B & C == A & C & B
I know many a number of scholars who understand that the authors of the
gospels and a certain number of the Pauline letters are unknown.
I am not talking about teachings from the Church. I told you already, the
vast majority of the things I say are from my scholastic studies which exist
independent of catholic apologetics. To tell you the truth, I haven't
opened my catechism once in the past four months.
You call me brainwashed. I would claim the exact opposite, that you are so
brainwashed by anti-Catholic heresy that you aren't open to true and
legitimate justification of Catholic doctrine. I have offered solid
justification yet you refute it without first reading or analyzing it.
I have been keeping track. 90% of what I write goes unanswered. 50% is
<snip>'ed and the rest is merely ignored, especially if it is something
which can justify my argument completely.
The most common argument against my claims are "It is Roman Catholic so it
is wrong" which you have only echoed over and over and over again.
when I refered to the religious studies in my university with the guidance
of credible religious and historical scholars, you called them all Roman
Catholic. Do you know that? One is anti-Catholic, left the Catholic Church
and converted to Judaism. Another was never Christian, but Buddhist. There
are more as well who never were Catholic, yet because they are open-minded
scholars, they analyze and are able to justify properly the possibility of
legitimacy of Catholic teachings and doctrine in light of certain symbolisms
and literary tools.
In ever said Jesus was talking to the apostles alone. I pointed out that in
scripture, He was talking to them. When I talk to someone, I am talking to
them and no one else. You chose to interpret that passage in your own way.
I choose a different way, a way that has led me to see it as a good example
of how one CAN pray, and how one should approach our Heavenly Father.
Your anti-Catholic crap is so shallow that it can't even fill a balloon, for
it is nothing that I haven't heard before. Your claims are so basic that I
have heard them a thousand times and am utterly tired of drawing out clear
and defined arguments every single time. After you faith has been bashed a
few hundred times and you defend it with the same legitimate justifications
every time, you tend to get lazy.
Look at the organization of language.
"Lord, how should we pray?"
"When you pray, [you should] say: "
My addition of [you should] clarifies more fully the intent and pattern of
the passage in that Jesus was associating with them in an informal setting
and hence using an less-formal pattern of speech.
Funny how you keep pushing me away though I keep asking you to look beyond
these differences... yet you keep judging me and you keep launching bombs at
my faith which you do not understand. I hope you feel good about yourself.
Whatever, though. Your attacks against my faith only strengthened me and
brought me closer to Christ.
-RS
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| User: "j w" |
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| Title: Re: Clearing a misunderstanding |
17 Dec 2004 07:14:03 AM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Thu, 16 Dec 2004 12:03:39 -0500, "RS" <rswarts@bu.edu> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
"go to them, preach to them, baptize them"
"go to them, baptize them, preach to them"
Both those statements are equivalent.
No, they are not. The first is the words of Christ. The 2nd is how you
have JUGGLED the words of God to justify your heresy.
A & B & C == A & C & B
NO!
There is an order to driving a car. You do NOT put oil in the radiator
and water in the fuel tank.
Do you use water and oil and fuel? Yes. But in their proper place!
Baptism does NOT precede salvation in the formula Jesus gave us.
And AGAIN, you IGNORE Jesus's words, "repent and be baptized..."
He did NOT say, "get baptized, and when you feel like it, or when
you're old enough, repent and get born again.
You also have N OT explained the necessity of "baptizing" infants.
Why do you baptize infants?
I know many a number of scholars who understand that the authors of the
gospels and a certain number of the Pauline letters are unknown.
Yes, the liberals who don't even believe the Bible to begin with. An
EXCELLENT source for your "apologetics."
I have seen Roman Catholics quote Karl Marx and Adolph Hitler, because
they said something Rome could use!
I am not talking about teachings from the Church. I told you already, the
vast majority of the things I say are from my scholastic studies which exist
independent of catholic apologetics.
They are either Roman Catholic, Roman Catholic-trained, or simply
extremely liberal and not believers in the authority of the Bible.
To tell you the truth, I haven't
opened my catechism once in the past four months.
Congrads! That's a good start.
You call me brainwashed.
Correct. That simply means that you are so steeped in one POV that you
have no interest and no room in your head for any other POV. That
means that your brain has literally been re-hard-wired to see things
one way only.
Sad, since I have learned SO much that my scholars didn't teach me. My
scholars merely spent 40 years teaching me how to study.
I would claim the exact opposite, that you are so
brainwashed by anti-Catholic heresy that you aren't open to true and
legitimate justification of Catholic doctrine.
I'm sure you would.
I have offered solid
justification yet you refute it without first reading or analyzing it.
What you don't get is that it may be solid as granite to you, but I
can turn it 1 nanoemeter and see a gaping hole you could drive a Mack
Truck through.
You have been simply taught to see it ONE WAY, and you don't seek or
see any other.
And what you think is "original argument or research" is not new or
original to ME.
I've heard or read 99.999999999 % of your arguments before.
And they are no more worthy today than they were in 1950.
I have been keeping track. 90% of what I write goes unanswered.
That means I see nothing to bother with. And as I have alluded
repeatedly, you waste a LOT of time regurgitating 100 year old, stale
arguments.
50% is
<snip>'ed and the rest is merely ignored, especially if it is something
which can justify my argument completely.
IN YOUR EYES.
Have you heard the concept of "stewardship?" You are responsible for
your money, your talents, and your time. And if I let you tie me up
for HOURS answering your same 200 RCC challenges to Christianity, I
can talk with no one else.
I'm not going to let you do that.
jw
snip
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| User: "RS" |
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| Title: Re: Clearing a misunderstanding |
17 Dec 2004 03:28:01 PM |
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Jesus wasn't instructing his apostles on driving a car. He was instructing
them to go out to the people of the nations.
Go out to them and preach to them and baptize them.
Go out to them and baptize them and preach to them.
One in the same.
As for the "formula" Jesus gave us, you act as if the gospel of Christ is a
mathematical plan.
You claim baptism doesn't precede salvation. I tell you that that is not
the case and here is some arguments as to why:
You claim that one must be born again and then be baptized. What if a
person were to be born again and die before they were to be baptized? Would
that person go to heaven as well? If that be the case, what salvic value is
there in baptisms?
In the Church, baptism is a sacrament. The Catholic Church has always
understood baptism differently than the MODERN Fundamentalists. The
sacrament of baptism accomplishes a number of things: remission of sin
(original and actual). You are cutting Acts 2:38 in half. Do not do that.
It must be taken as a whole passage:
"Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus for the
forgiveness of your sins; and you shall recieve the gift of the Holy
Spirit." Also, "Rise and be baptized, and wash away your sins, calling on
his name" (Acts 22:16). These commands make clear the connection between
baptism and salvation, further explained in 1 Peter 3:21: "And baptism,
which is prefigured, now saves you - not as a removal of dirt from teh body,
but as an appeal to God for a good conscience, through the resurrection of
Jesus Christ, who has gone into heaven and is at the right hand of God, with
the angels, authorities, and powers made subject to him."
Baptism now saves you! Hence, one can not be on the path to salvation until
one has been baptised.
BTW,
I opened my catechism today :)
You wrote:
"Correct. That simply means that you are so steeped in one POV that you have
no interest and no room in your head for any other POV. That means that your
brain has literally been re-hard-wired to see things
one way only."
Sounds familiar? You have no interest or room in your head for my point of
view. You proves that when you told me you pushed my arguments aside.
I have been taught very little by the Church. Sunday school (faith
formation as it is now called) or (Catechism class) was a joke to me. I
learned nothing of the doctrine of the Church. Now, however, I study it on
my own and teach myself. You know we are capable of doing that, don't you?
Teaching oureslves that is.
I have heard ALL of your arguments before and they are the same thing over
and over and over again, based in the same anti-Catholic hatred and
ignorance.
As for when you wrote:
"Have you heard the concept of "stewardship?" You are responsible for
your money, your talents, and your time. And if I let you tie me up
for HOURS answering your same 200 RCC challenges to Christianity, I
can talk with no one else.
I'm not going to let you do that."
You forget that I am responding to YOUR attacks on Roman Catholic faith in a
Roman Catholic newsgroup. You are asking questions, I am answering them.
Then you are asking more questions, and I am answering them.
I am defending my faith to your attacks and answering the questions you pose
to me, despite my knowing that you are going to ignore my answers.
-RS
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| User: "Streamer" |
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| Title: Re: Clearing a misunderstanding |
17 Dec 2004 07:43:40 PM |
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"RS" <rswarts@bu.edu> wrote in message news:cpvj1a$fkq$1@news3.bu.edu...
Jesus wasn't instructing his apostles on driving a car. He was
instructing them to go out to the people of the nations.
How old are you?
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| User: "RS" |
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| Title: Re: Clearing a misunderstanding |
17 Dec 2004 11:28:45 PM |
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Does it matter how old I am? Are you going to mock me because of my age, or
claim I cannot know anything because of my youth?
To answer your question, I am 21.
I tend to find that when someone asks how old the person is in the debate,
they are looking for another way to attack that person because they have run
out their own words.
-RS
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| User: "Streamer" |
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| Title: Re: Clearing a misunderstanding |
18 Dec 2004 12:16:35 AM |
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"RS" <rswarts@bu.edu> wrote in message news:cq0f6m$ds1$1@news3.bu.edu...
Jesus wasn't instructing his apostles on driving a car. He was
instructing them to go out to the people of the nations.
How old are you?
Does it matter how old I am? Are you going to mock me because of my age,
or claim I cannot know anything because of my youth?
To answer your question, I am 21.
I tend to find that when someone asks how old the person is in the debate,
they are looking for another way to attack that person because they have
run out their own words.
You're old enough not to act like child; like answering about that car.
Or maybe, you really didn't understand.
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| User: "Doc Watson -- the \Usenet GHOST!\ :O" |
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| Title: Re: Clearing a misunderstanding |
19 Dec 2004 01:43:55 PM |
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On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 00:28:45 -0500, "RS" <rswarts@bu.edu> spoke the
following words of wisdom:
Does it matter how old I am? Are you going to mock me because of my
age, or
claim I cannot know anything because of my youth?
To answer your question, I am 21.
I tend to find that when someone asks how old the person is in the
debate,
they are looking for another way to attack that person because they
have run
out their own words.
-RS
Rob, with all due respect, you're probably being asked because you did
state you needed to concentrate on doing your homework, and had to
leave in order to get to it.
Personally, I thought you were pretty young also, no insult intended.
I sometimes wish I was only 21 again, but then if I WAS, I'd have to
go through all over again what I already have, so I simply to prefer
to age gracefully!! I'm 56, and still a young person in body, mind,
and spirit.
I can still communicate quite well with kids, and in fact, only
recently my best friend's grand-daughter gave me a picture of a
'castle on top of a hill' ------ which I now proudly have on display
here at home. She gave it to me as her Christmas gift.
I thought it was really precious, and I was also quite touched by her
gesture :o)
She received a little toy bear bank from her Grandmother. (They had to
celebrate their Christmas early, due to work restraints, and
availablilty of family to visit)
Well, she got such a kick out of it when I deposited a few dollars
into her little bank------- as all kids will, she kept coming back for
more, and sucker that I am, I gave her the rest of my change!!!!
hehehe!! Her smiles and giggles were worth every blasted penny!!
Of course, her sister had a bank also, and between the two of them,.
now I'm BROKE!!!!!!!
Send me money!!!! :O)
God bless you and yours, and I sincerely hope you and I will be able
to continue conversing with open minds. hearts, and attitudes.
Merry Christmas :o)
--
The official Usenet GHOST....
haunting romanists EVERYWHERE!
BWAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAA! BOO!
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| User: "RS" |
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| Title: Re: Clearing a misunderstanding |
19 Dec 2004 02:50:49 PM |
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"Doc Watson -- the "Usenet GHOST!" :O)" <me@you.net> wrote in message
news:4odbs0hb6dsbmp2fg49c3q4l7ebsjbbith@4ax.com...
On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 00:28:45 -0500, "RS" <rswarts@bu.edu> spoke the
following words of wisdom:
Does it matter how old I am? Are you going to mock me because of my
age, or
claim I cannot know anything because of my youth?
To answer your question, I am 21.
I tend to find that when someone asks how old the person is in the
debate,
they are looking for another way to attack that person because they
have run
out their own words.
-RS
Rob, with all due respect, you're probably being asked because you did
state you needed to concentrate on doing your homework, and had to
leave in order to get to it.
Personally, I thought you were pretty young also, no insult intended.
I sometimes wish I was only 21 again,
At my man Peter Pan said:
I won't grow up!
I don't want to get older, no insult intended, but I feel my childhood
slipping away and it makes me sad, because as that goes, my imagination goes
with it, and my sense of adventure lessens. I am, however, maintaining my
child-like heart and hope that, though bestowed with wisdom of age, I may
always look at the world through the eyes of a child :)
but then if I WAS, I'd have to
go through all over again what I already have, so I simply to prefer
to age gracefully!! I'm 56, and still a young person in body, mind,
and spirit.
I can still communicate quite well with kids, and in fact, only
recently my best friend's grand-daughter gave me a picture of a
'castle on top of a hill' ------ which I now proudly have on display
here at home. She gave it to me as her Christmas gift.
I thought it was really precious, and I was also quite touched by her
gesture :o)
That really is a simple and beautiful present to be given. :)
She received a little toy bear bank from her Grandmother. (They had to
celebrate their Christmas early, due to work restraints, and
availablilty of family to visit)
Well, she got such a kick out of it when I deposited a few dollars
into her little bank------- as all kids will, she kept coming back for
more, and sucker that I am, I gave her the rest of my change!!!!
hehehe!! Her smiles and giggles were worth every blasted penny!!
Of course, her sister had a bank also, and between the two of them,.
now I'm BROKE!!!!!!!
Send me money!!!! :O)
God bless you and yours, and I sincerely hope you and I will be able
to continue conversing with open minds. hearts, and attitudes.
Merry Christmas :o)
And you, too
-RS
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| User: "Doc Watson -- the \Usenet GHOST!\ :O" |
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| Title: Re: Clearing a misunderstanding |
20 Dec 2004 03:26:10 PM |
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On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 15:50:49 -0500, "RS" <rswarts@bu.edu> spoke the
following words of wisdom:
"Doc Watson -- the "Usenet GHOST!" :O)" <me@you.net> wrote in message
news:4odbs0hb6dsbmp2fg49c3q4l7ebsjbbith@4ax.com...
Rob, with all due respect, you're probably being asked because you
did
state you needed to concentrate on doing your homework, and had to
leave in order to get to it.
Personally, I thought you were pretty young also, no insult
intended.
I sometimes wish I was only 21 again,
At my man Peter Pan said:
I won't grow up!
heheh!! :o)
Me either!! I WON'T !! And nobody can MAKE me!!!! :o)
I don't want to get older, no insult intended, but I feel my
childhood
slipping away and it makes me sad, because as that goes, my
imagination goes
with it, and my sense of adventure lessens. I am, however,
maintaining my
child-like heart and hope that, though bestowed with wisdom of age, I
may
always look at the world through the eyes of a child :)
WHY NOT????
Personally, I still think we need to retain SOME aspect of
childishness in order to help us cope with day-to-day frustrations.
Hey, at 56, I think NOTHING of going out in the snow, and digging out
that snow castle I have been talking about.
Some will no doubt call me either a child, retarded, or a fool.
Personally, I couldn't care less!!!!
I have ALWAYS enjoyed having fun in the snow. I have become a hater of
winter becuase I stopped having that fun.
Last year, I resolved to try harder to work WITH that season rather
than against it.
It's working!!!!
If I 'hate' a season, it lasts ten times longer, seemingly.
By working WITH IT, it lasts as long as the other seasons.
Snow-shovelling? No problem ----- I need the exercise.
Making a snow fort or a snow castle, whatever......... ENJOY the
seasons God gives us.
Another PLUS----------- Those areas which have the four seasons seem
to experience FAR LESS the earthquakes that the continually-hot places
do!!!!
So as for me, I intend to keep on working WITH the seasons...... and
enjoying every blasted one of 'em!!!!! :o)
I can still communicate quite well with kids, and in fact, only
recently my best friend's grand-daughter gave me a picture of a
'castle on top of a hill' ------ which I now proudly have on
display
here at home. She gave it to me as her Christmas gift.
I thought it was really precious, and I was also quite touched by
her
gesture :o)
That really is a simple and beautiful present to be given. :)
hehhe!! It sure was. Only nine years old ------- that drawing holds a
special place in my dining room, and when oure family (what is left of
us) gets together for Christmas, they will see it too :o)
snipped--------
God bless you and yours, and I sincerely hope you and I will be
able
to continue conversing with open minds. hearts, and attitudes.
Merry Christmas :o)
And you, too
-RS
thank you :o)
--
The official Usenet GHOST....
haunting romanists EVERYWHERE!
BWAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAA! BOO!
.
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| User: "j w" |
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| Title: Re: Clearing a misunderstanding |
19 Dec 2004 04:39:38 PM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 15:50:49 -0500, "RS" <rswarts@bu.edu> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
"Doc Watson -- the "Usenet GHOST!" :O)" <me@you.net> wrote in message
news:4odbs0hb6dsbmp2fg49c3q4l7ebsjbbith@4ax.com...
On Sat, 18 Dec 2004 00:28:45 -0500, "RS" <rswarts@bu.edu> spoke the
following words of wisdom:
Does it matter how old I am? Are you going to mock me because of my
age, or
claim I cannot know anything because of my youth?
To answer your question, I am 21.
I tend to find that when someone asks how old the person is in the
debate,
they are looking for another way to attack that person because they
have run
out their own words.
-RS
Rob, with all due respect, you're probably being asked because you did
state you needed to concentrate on doing your homework, and had to
leave in order to get to it.
Personally, I thought you were pretty young also, no insult intended.
I sometimes wish I was only 21 again,
At my man Peter Pan said:
I won't grow up!
I don't want to get older, no insult intended, but I feel my childhood
slipping away and it makes me sad, because as that goes, my imagination goes
with it, and my sense of adventure lessens. I am, however, maintaining my
child-like heart and hope that, though bestowed with wisdom of age, I may
always look at the world through the eyes of a child :)
AGAIN, you defy the Bible which commands us to "be mature."
jw
but then if I WAS, I'd have to
go through all over again what I already have, so I simply to prefer
to age gracefully!! I'm 56, and still a young person in body, mind,
and spirit.
I can still communicate quite well with kids, and in fact, only
recently my best friend's grand-daughter gave me a picture of a
'castle on top of a hill' ------ which I now proudly have on display
here at home. She gave it to me as her Christmas gift.
I thought it was really precious, and I was also quite touched by her
gesture :o)
That really is a simple and beautiful present to be given. :)
She received a little toy bear bank from her Grandmother. (They had to
celebrate their Christmas early, due to work restraints, and
availablilty of family to visit)
Well, she got such a kick out of it when I deposited a few dollars
into her little bank------- as all kids will, she kept coming back for
more, and sucker that I am, I gave her the rest of my change!!!!
hehehe!! Her smiles and giggles were worth every blasted penny!!
Of course, her sister had a bank also, and between the two of them,.
now I'm BROKE!!!!!!!
Send me money!!!! :O)
God bless you and yours, and I sincerely hope you and I will be able
to continue conversing with open minds. hearts, and attitudes.
Merry Christmas :o)
And you, too
-RS
.
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| User: "RS" |
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| Title: Re: Clearing a misunderstanding |
19 Dec 2004 05:03:27 PM |
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"j w @yahoo.com>" <j_w<no> wrote in message
news:6o0cs0lq3383c4rqeiokt4iarhg6j302oe@4ax.com...
<snip JW's idea of an organized response>
AGAIN, you defy the Bible which commands us to "be mature."
On the contrary, scripture tells us to look at the world as a child would.
We can be mature in that. My goal to hold onto my imagination and to think
like a child would doesn't make me immature. Most children, I find, are
more mature than adults who pretend they are mature.
<snip JW crap>
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| User: "Streamer" |
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| Title: Re: Clearing a misunderstanding |
20 Dec 2004 11:08:40 PM |
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"RS" <rswarts@bu.edu> wrote in message news:cq51cb$iv2$1@news3.bu.edu...
"j w @yahoo.com>" <j_w<no> wrote in message
news:6o0cs0lq3383c4rqeiokt4iarhg6j302oe@4ax.com...
<snip JW's idea of an organized response>
AGAIN, you defy the Bible which commands us to "be mature."
On the contrary, scripture tells us to look at the world as a child would.
We can be mature in that. My goal to hold onto my imagination and to
think like a child would doesn't make me immature. Most children, I find,
are more mature than adults who pretend they are mature.
To look at the world as a child would is not the Bible said.
You still didn't get the meaning of that "child like".
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| User: "Doc Watson -- the \Usenet GHOST!\ :O" |
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| Title: Re: Clearing a misunderstanding |
20 Dec 2004 03:26:12 PM |
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On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 18:03:27 -0500, "RS" <rswarts@bu.edu> spoke the
following words of wisdom:
"j w @yahoo.com>" <j_w<no> wrote in message
news:6o0cs0lq3383c4rqeiokt4iarhg6j302oe@4ax.com...
<snip JW's idea of an organized response>
AGAIN, you defy the Bible which commands us to "be mature."
On the contrary, scripture tells us to look at the world as a child
would.
We can be mature in that. My goal to hold onto my imagination and to
think
like a child would doesn't make me immature. Most children, I find,
are
more mature than adults who pretend they are mature.
<snip JW crap>
AGREED TWO hunf\dred percent, if that could be possible, Rob.
RIGHT ON.
--
The official Usenet GHOST....
haunting romanists EVERYWHERE!
BWAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAA! BOO!
.
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| User: "j w" |
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| Title: Re: Clearing a misunderstanding |
20 Dec 2004 02:00:01 AM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 18:03:27 -0500, "RS" <rswarts@bu.edu> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
"j w @yahoo.com>" <j_w<no> wrote in message
news:6o0cs0lq3383c4rqeiokt4iarhg6j302oe@4ax.com...
<snip JW's idea of an organized response>
AGAIN, you defy the Bible which commands us to "be mature."
On the contrary, scripture tells us to look at the world as a child would.
Rubbish.
You keep making these totally absurd statements, yet you NEVER back
them up with related scripture. Why is that?
"Be wise as serpents, yet innocent as doves."
MT 10:11 "Whatever town or village you enter, search for some
worthy person there and stay at his house until you leave. 12 As you
enter the home, give it your greeting. 13 If the home is deserving,
let your peace rest on it; if it is not, let your peace return to you.
14 If anyone will not welcome you or listen to your words, shake the
dust off your feet when you leave that home or town. 15 I tell you the
truth, it will be more bearable for Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of
judgment than for that town.
---> 16 I am sending you out like sheep among wolves. Therefore be as
shrewd as snakes and as innocent as doves. <---
Children and the immature cannot be "wise".
1CO 2:6 We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the
mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age,
who are coming to nothing. 7 No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a
wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before
time began. 8 None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if
they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
We can be mature in that. My goal to hold onto my imagination and to think
like a child would doesn't make me immature. Most children, I find, are
more mature than adults who pretend they are mature.
zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
jw>
<snip JW crap>
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| User: "RS" |
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| Title: Re: Clearing a misunderstanding |
20 Dec 2004 04:18:06 AM |
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"j w @yahoo.com>" <j_w<no> wrote in message
news:ec1ds0l3ee2qntd7228qnj5ii6nlmunnui@4ax.com...
x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 18:03:27 -0500, "RS" <rswarts@bu.edu> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
"j w @yahoo.com>" <j_w<no> wrote in message
news:6o0cs0lq3383c4rqeiokt4iarhg6j302oe@4ax.com...
<snip JW's idea of an organized response>
AGAIN, you defy the Bible which commands us to "be mature."
On the contrary, scripture tells us to look at the world as a child would.
Rubbish.
You keep making these totally absurd statements, yet you NEVER back
them up with related scripture. Why is that?
Because you can't name the passage in the scripture off the top of your head
I am wrong?
Luke 18:17 (New International Version)
17I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God like
a little child will never enter it."
Therefore we have to see the kingdom of heaven as a child would. We must
possess, as well, a child like heart.
One can still have wisdom and have a the heart of a child. I find children
to be the most wise in many occassions.
Children and the immature cannot be "wise".
Children can be quite wise in their innocense. They can point out the
solution to a problem they see as simple yet adults see as too complicated.
In their imagination they see the world for what it truly is, wonderous and
beautiful. We lose that as we grow up, and Christ has told us that if we
lose it completely, we will never know Him nor heaven.
<snip>
It appears that you are wrong here, my friend.
-RS
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| User: "Streamer" |
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| Title: Re: Clearing a misunderstanding |
20 Dec 2004 11:06:22 PM |
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"RS" <rswarts@bu.edu> wrote in message news:cq68t2$le$1@news3.bu.edu...
"j w @yahoo.com>" <j_w<no> wrote in message
news:ec1ds0l3ee2qntd7228qnj5ii6nlmunnui@4ax.com...
x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 18:03:27 -0500, "RS" <rswarts@bu.edu> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
"j w @yahoo.com>" <j_w<no> wrote in message
news:6o0cs0lq3383c4rqeiokt4iarhg6j302oe@4ax.com...
<snip JW's idea of an organized response>
AGAIN, you defy the Bible which commands us to "be mature."
On the contrary, scripture tells us to look at the world as a child
would.
Rubbish.
You keep making these totally absurd statements, yet you NEVER back
them up with related scripture. Why is that?
Because you can't name the passage in the scripture off the top of your
head I am wrong?
Luke 18:17 (New International Version)
17I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God
like a little child will never enter it."
Therefore we have to see the kingdom of heaven as a child would. We must
possess, as well, a child like heart.
The characteristic of a child is they believe whatever their parents said to
them.
God wants His children to be like a little child. Not in the sense that they
cannot understand so many things and say so many nonsense words. But to
believe in what ever God said. Not relying on their own understanding.
And you knbow what, the Holy Spirit teaches His children, and all of them
will enter the kingdom of God.
One can still have wisdom and have a the heart of a child. I find
children to be the most wise in many occassions.
Children and the immature cannot be "wise".
Children can be quite wise in their innocense. They can point out the
solution to a problem they see as simple yet adults see as too
complicated. In their imagination they see the world for what it truly is,
wonderous and beautiful. We lose that as we grow up, and Christ has told
us that if we lose it completely, we will never know Him nor heaven.
Read the above for your proper understanding of "child like".
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| User: "j w" |
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| Title: Re: Clearing a misunderstanding |
22 Dec 2004 08:05:44 PM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Tue, 21 Dec 2004 00:06:22 -0500, "Streamer" <Stream_Haze@yahoo.com>
wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
"RS" <rswarts@bu.edu> wrote in message news:cq68t2$le$1@news3.bu.edu...
"j w @yahoo.com>" <j_w<no> wrote in message
news:ec1ds0l3ee2qntd7228qnj5ii6nlmunnui@4ax.com...
x-no-archive: yes
On Sun, 19 Dec 2004 18:03:27 -0500, "RS" <rswarts@bu.edu> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
"j w @yahoo.com>" <j_w<no> wrote in message
news:6o0cs0lq3383c4rqeiokt4iarhg6j302oe@4ax.com...
<snip JW's idea of an organized response>
AGAIN, you defy the Bible which commands us to "be mature."
On the contrary, scripture tells us to look at the world as a child
would.
Rubbish.
You keep making these totally absurd statements, yet you NEVER back
them up with related scripture. Why is that?
Because you can't name the passage in the scripture off the top of your
head I am wrong?
Luke 18:17 (New International Version)
17I tell you the truth, anyone who will not receive the kingdom of God
like a little child will never enter it."
Therefore we have to see the kingdom of heaven as a child would. We must
possess, as well, a child like heart.
The characteristic of a child is they believe whatever their parents said to
them.
God wants His children to be like a little child. Not in the sense that they
cannot understand so many things and say so many nonsense words. But to
believe in what ever God said. Not relying on their own understanding.
And you knbow what, the Holy Spirit teaches His children, and all of them
will enter the kingdom of God.
One can still have wisdom and have a the heart of a child. I find
children to be the most wise in many occassions.
Children and the immature cannot be "wise".
Children can be quite wise in their innocense. They can point out the
solution to a problem they see as simple yet adults see as too
complicated. In their imagination they see the world for what it truly is,
wonderous and beautiful. We lose that as we grow up, and Christ has told
us that if we lose it completely, we will never know Him nor heaven.
Read the above for your proper understanding of "child like".
Well said.
jw
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| User: "Doc Watson -- the \Usenet GHOST!\ :O" |
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| Title: Re: Clearing a misunderstanding |
20 Dec 2004 03:26:13 PM |
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On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 00:00:01 -0800, j w <j_w<no>@yahoo.com> spoke the
following words of wisdom:
jw>
stop your perpetual whining
--
The official Usenet GHOST....
haunting romanists EVERYWHERE!
BWAHAHAHAHAAAAAAAAAA! BOO!
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| User: "j w" |
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| Title: Re: Clearing a misunderstanding |
22 Dec 2004 08:06:39 PM |
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x-no-archive: yes
On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 16:26:13 -0500, "Doc Watson -- the \"Usenet
GHOST!\" :O)" <me@you.net> wrote:
copyright 2004 John Weatherly all rights reserved (keep it in the
group)
On Mon, 20 Dec 2004 00:00:01 -0800, j w <j_w<no>@yahoo.com> spoke the
following words of wisdom:
jw>
stop your perpetual whining
Whimper! whimper!
I keep pleading to | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
