| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Martin Willett" |
| Date: |
02 Sep 2004 09:32:47 AM |
| Object: |
Corruption of the written word |
Can any experts on the Bible clarify a point with me, does Jesus at
any time tell his disciples not to leave a written record because it
will be corrupted?
I have this from a very unreliable source, about as unreliable as they
come.
If the answer is yes then a cite of chapter and verse would be handy.
Thank you,
Martin Willett
.
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| User: "Gnos Theos" |
|
| Title: Re: Corruption of the written word |
04 Sep 2004 03:44:13 AM |
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"Martin Willett" <ignoredmailbox@ntlworld.com> wrote in message news:<2pop87Fjm2hgU1@uni-berlin.de>...
Can any experts on the Bible clarify a point with me, does Jesus at
any time tell his disciples not to leave a written record because it
will be corrupted?
I have this from a very unreliable source, about as unreliable as they
come.
If the answer is yes then a cite of chapter and verse would be handy.
Thank you,
Martin Willett
I can think of no verse where Jesus commands the disciples
to do either, write or not write. God did promise to preserve
His word, and it has been. You can go to a major library and
look up ancient texts today. The Dead Sea scrolls had a
complete copy of Isaiah. There are 26,000 manuscripts. In
comparison most of Shakespear's plays are incomplete, i.e.
there is no complete copy in existence. It is harder to
prove that Shakespear existed than Jesus. To deny the authenticity
of the Bible is tantamount to denying all of history for
lack of evidence.
Jesus did promise that the Holy Spirit would call into remembrance
all that He had said. Two of the Gospels are firsthand accounts,
Matthew and John.
Dr. James MacDonald, "God Wrote a Book",
http://walkintheword.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=Books
God promised to preserve the Bible, but He didn't promise to
teach everyone to read Greek or Hebrew.
.
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| User: "sheep defender" |
|
| Title: Re: Corruption of the written word |
04 Sep 2004 01:30:56 PM |
|
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In article <60586629.0409040044.1869c497@posting.google.com>,
spam@gnostheos.org (Gnos Theos) wrote:
"Martin Willett" <ignoredmailbox@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:<2pop87Fjm2hgU1@uni-berlin.de>...
Can any experts on the Bible clarify a point with me, does Jesus at
any time tell his disciples not to leave a written record because it
will be corrupted?
I have this from a very unreliable source, about as unreliable as they
come.
If the answer is yes then a cite of chapter and verse would be handy.
Thank you,
Martin Willett
I can think of no verse where Jesus commands the disciples
to do either, write or not write. God did promise to preserve
His word, and it has been. You can go to a major library and
look up ancient texts today. The Dead Sea scrolls had a
complete copy of Isaiah. There are 26,000 manuscripts. In
comparison most of Shakespear's plays are incomplete, i.e.
there is no complete copy in existence. It is harder to
prove that Shakespear existed than Jesus. To deny the authenticity
of the Bible is tantamount to denying all of history for
lack of evidence.
How does one authenticate any edition of the Bible when they assert such
supernatural and contradictory claims?
Jesus did promise that the Holy Spirit would call into remembrance
all that He had said. Two of the Gospels are firsthand accounts,
Matthew and John.
All that he said? Can this spirit recall what Jesus said to his parents
when he was very young? That would be instructive.
Dr. James MacDonald, "God Wrote a Book",
http://walkintheword.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=Books
God promised to preserve the Bible, but He didn't promise to
teach everyone to read Greek or Hebrew.
Do you know a person who God taught Greek or Hebrew to? That would be
interesting.
Defender
.
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| User: "sheep defender" |
|
| Title: Re: Corruption of the written word |
02 Sep 2004 08:28:44 PM |
|
|
In article <2pop87Fjm2hgU1@uni-berlin.de>, "Martin Willett"
<ignoredmailbox@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Can any experts on the Bible clarify a point with me, does Jesus at
any time tell his disciples not to leave a written record because it
will be corrupted?
I have this from a very unreliable source, about as unreliable as they
come.
If the answer is yes then a cite of chapter and verse would be handy.
Thank you,
Martin Willett
Jesus was only concerned with his fellow poor Jews from the settlements
and more specifically, ending the Roman attrocities against them by the
virtue in his new kingdom of God theology. In his mind, the rich urban
Jews were ungodly wicked and the Gentiles were worse. He was outside of,
or at least on the very edge of, the strict laws and customs of his
setting - and so the writing down of an account of his activities would
have been a very low priority.
Defender
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: Corruption of the written word |
03 Sep 2004 06:07:24 AM |
|
|
While skydiving off of the Empire State Building on
Thu, 02 Sep 2004 19:28:44 -0600,
sdsdsdsdsd@waithingforthelight.com (sheep defender)
screamed out:
In article <2pop87Fjm2hgU1@uni-berlin.de>, "Martin Willett"
<ignoredmailbox@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Can any experts on the Bible clarify a point with me, does Jesus at
any time tell his disciples not to leave a written record because it
will be corrupted?
I have this from a very unreliable source, about as unreliable as they
come.
If the answer is yes then a cite of chapter and verse would be handy.
Thank you,
Martin Willett
Jesus was only concerned with his fellow poor Jews from the settlements
and more specifically, ending the Roman attrocities against them by the
virtue in his new kingdom of God theology. In his mind, the rich urban
Jews were ungodly wicked and the Gentiles were worse. He was outside of,
or at least on the very edge of, the strict laws and customs of his
setting - and so the writing down of an account of his activities would
have been a very low priority.
And you prove this how?
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"Were they ashamed when they made an abomination?
They were not at all ashamed, nor did they know
to blush. So they shall fall among those who fall.
At the time I visit them, they shall be cast down,
says Jehovah." - Jeremiah 6:15
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"Prevent truth decay. Brush up on your Bible."
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
.
|
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| User: "sheep defender" |
|
| Title: Re: Corruption of the written word |
03 Sep 2004 06:24:15 PM |
|
|
In article <13kgj0po18qofg6t8iokkcf0umh4movgok@4ax.com>, Pastor Dave
<pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote:
While skydiving off of the Empire State Building on
Thu, 02 Sep 2004 19:28:44 -0600,
sdsdsdsdsd@waithingforthelight.com (sheep defender)
screamed out:
In article <2pop87Fjm2hgU1@uni-berlin.de>, "Martin Willett"
<ignoredmailbox@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Can any experts on the Bible clarify a point with me, does Jesus at
any time tell his disciples not to leave a written record because it
will be corrupted?
I have this from a very unreliable source, about as unreliable as they
come.
If the answer is yes then a cite of chapter and verse would be handy.
Thank you,
Martin Willett
Jesus was only concerned with his fellow poor Jews from the settlements
and more specifically, ending the Roman attrocities against them by the
virtue in his new kingdom of God theology. In his mind, the rich urban
Jews were ungodly wicked and the Gentiles were worse. He was outside of,
or at least on the very edge of, the strict laws and customs of his
setting - and so the writing down of an account of his activities would
have been a very low priority.
And you prove this how?
I can't think of how we can prove anything about this Jesus. Proof is
more than wishful thinking of faith.
Defender
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: Corruption of the written word |
05 Sep 2004 08:16:16 AM |
|
|
While skydiving off of the Empire State Building on
Fri, 03 Sep 2004 17:24:15 -0600,
sdsdsdsdsd@waithingforthelight.com (sheep defender)
screamed out:
In article <13kgj0po18qofg6t8iokkcf0umh4movgok@4ax.com>, Pastor Dave
<pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote:
While skydiving off of the Empire State Building on
Thu, 02 Sep 2004 19:28:44 -0600,
sdsdsdsdsd@waithingforthelight.com (sheep defender)
screamed out:
In article <2pop87Fjm2hgU1@uni-berlin.de>, "Martin Willett"
<ignoredmailbox@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Can any experts on the Bible clarify a point with me, does Jesus at
any time tell his disciples not to leave a written record because it
will be corrupted?
I have this from a very unreliable source, about as unreliable as they
come.
If the answer is yes then a cite of chapter and verse would be handy.
Thank you,
Martin Willett
Jesus was only concerned with his fellow poor Jews from the settlements
and more specifically, ending the Roman attrocities against them by the
virtue in his new kingdom of God theology. In his mind, the rich urban
Jews were ungodly wicked and the Gentiles were worse. He was outside of,
or at least on the very edge of, the strict laws and customs of his
setting - and so the writing down of an account of his activities would
have been a very low priority.
And you prove this how?
I can't think of how we can prove anything about this Jesus. Proof is
more than wishful thinking of faith.
So then you admit that you presented speculation as if
it were truth.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"Were they ashamed when they made an abomination?
They were not at all ashamed, nor did they know
to blush. So they shall fall among those who fall.
At the time I visit them, they shall be cast down,
says Jehovah." - Jeremiah 6:15
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"To belittle is to be little."
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
.
|
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: Corruption of the written word |
04 Sep 2004 08:38:02 AM |
|
|
While skydiving off of the Empire State Building on
Fri, 03 Sep 2004 17:24:15 -0600,
sdsdsdsdsd@waithingforthelight.com (sheep defender)
screamed out:
In article <13kgj0po18qofg6t8iokkcf0umh4movgok@4ax.com>, Pastor Dave
<pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote:
While skydiving off of the Empire State Building on
Thu, 02 Sep 2004 19:28:44 -0600,
sdsdsdsdsd@waithingforthelight.com (sheep defender)
screamed out:
In article <2pop87Fjm2hgU1@uni-berlin.de>, "Martin Willett"
<ignoredmailbox@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Can any experts on the Bible clarify a point with me, does Jesus at
any time tell his disciples not to leave a written record because it
will be corrupted?
I have this from a very unreliable source, about as unreliable as they
come.
If the answer is yes then a cite of chapter and verse would be handy.
Thank you,
Martin Willett
Jesus was only concerned with his fellow poor Jews from the settlements
and more specifically, ending the Roman attrocities against them by the
virtue in his new kingdom of God theology. In his mind, the rich urban
Jews were ungodly wicked and the Gentiles were worse. He was outside of,
or at least on the very edge of, the strict laws and customs of his
setting - and so the writing down of an account of his activities would
have been a very low priority.
And you prove this how?
I can't think of how we can prove anything about this Jesus. Proof is
more than wishful thinking of faith.
So then you admit that you presented speculation as if
it were truth.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"Were they ashamed when they made an abomination?
They were not at all ashamed, nor did they know
to blush. So they shall fall among those who fall.
At the time I visit them, they shall be cast down,
says Jehovah." - Jeremiah 6:15
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
http://www.delusionresistance.org/creation/christ_scientific_creation.html
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
.
|
|
|
| User: "sheep defender" |
|
| Title: Re: Corruption of the written word |
04 Sep 2004 01:21:47 PM |
|
|
In article <89hjj09p3vrs9ie2kacoqm8qvqdehsaomh@4ax.com>, Pastor Dave
<pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote:
While skydiving off of the Empire State Building on
Fri, 03 Sep 2004 17:24:15 -0600,
sdsdsdsdsd@waithingforthelight.com (sheep defender)
screamed out:
In article <13kgj0po18qofg6t8iokkcf0umh4movgok@4ax.com>, Pastor Dave
<pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote:
While skydiving off of the Empire State Building on
Thu, 02 Sep 2004 19:28:44 -0600,
sdsdsdsdsd@waithingforthelight.com (sheep defender)
screamed out:
In article <2pop87Fjm2hgU1@uni-berlin.de>, "Martin Willett"
<ignoredmailbox@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Can any experts on the Bible clarify a point with me, does Jesus at
any time tell his disciples not to leave a written record because it
will be corrupted?
I have this from a very unreliable source, about as unreliable as they
come.
If the answer is yes then a cite of chapter and verse would be handy.
Thank you,
Martin Willett
Jesus was only concerned with his fellow poor Jews from the settlements
and more specifically, ending the Roman attrocities against them by the
virtue in his new kingdom of God theology. In his mind, the rich urban
Jews were ungodly wicked and the Gentiles were worse. He was outside of,
or at least on the very edge of, the strict laws and customs of his
setting - and so the writing down of an account of his activities would
have been a very low priority.
And you prove this how?
I can't think of how we can prove anything about this Jesus. Proof is
more than the wishful thinking of faith.
So then you admit that you presented speculation as if
it were truth.
No. I admit that I can't know the "truth" about characters from a bible
compilation. Nor can you, or anyone else, because the requisite reliable
evidence has been intentionally destroyed or lost.
Defender
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
.
|
|
|
| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: Corruption of the written word |
05 Sep 2004 08:25:16 AM |
|
|
While skydiving off of the Empire State Building on
Sat, 04 Sep 2004 12:21:47 -0600,
sdsdsdsdsd@waithingforthelight.com (sheep defender)
screamed out:
In article <89hjj09p3vrs9ie2kacoqm8qvqdehsaomh@4ax.com>, Pastor Dave
<pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote:
While skydiving off of the Empire State Building on
Fri, 03 Sep 2004 17:24:15 -0600,
sdsdsdsdsd@waithingforthelight.com (sheep defender)
screamed out:
In article <13kgj0po18qofg6t8iokkcf0umh4movgok@4ax.com>, Pastor Dave
<pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote:
While skydiving off of the Empire State Building on
Thu, 02 Sep 2004 19:28:44 -0600,
sdsdsdsdsd@waithingforthelight.com (sheep defender)
screamed out:
In article <2pop87Fjm2hgU1@uni-berlin.de>, "Martin Willett"
<ignoredmailbox@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Can any experts on the Bible clarify a point with me, does Jesus at
any time tell his disciples not to leave a written record because it
will be corrupted?
I have this from a very unreliable source, about as unreliable as they
come.
If the answer is yes then a cite of chapter and verse would be handy.
Thank you,
Martin Willett
Jesus was only concerned with his fellow poor Jews from the settlements
and more specifically, ending the Roman attrocities against them by the
virtue in his new kingdom of God theology. In his mind, the rich urban
Jews were ungodly wicked and the Gentiles were worse. He was outside of,
or at least on the very edge of, the strict laws and customs of his
setting - and so the writing down of an account of his activities would
have been a very low priority.
And you prove this how?
I can't think of how we can prove anything about this Jesus. Proof is
more than the wishful thinking of faith.
So then you admit that you presented speculation as if
it were truth.
No. I admit that I can't know the "truth" about characters from a bible
compilation. Nor can you, or anyone else, because the requisite reliable
evidence has been intentionally destroyed or lost.
Now you make yourself a liar. You made a statement, as
if it were truth. Then when proof of your statement is
requested, you retreat to this position. If you were
honest, you would have said it like this to begin with.
Of course, that doesn't mean your claim that no one can
know is accurate. It does mean however, that you don't
think anyone can know.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"Were they ashamed when they made an abomination?
They were not at all ashamed, nor did they know
to blush. So they shall fall among those who fall.
At the time I visit them, they shall be cast down,
says Jehovah." - Jeremiah 6:15
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"The mark of a society that's on its last leg, is when
there is no fear of God." - Adrian Rogers
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
.
|
|
|
| User: "sheep defender" |
|
| Title: Re: Corruption of the written word |
06 Sep 2004 04:17:57 PM |
|
|
In article <fr4mj05kiemgrdp431j0ncf72jfu11mgmq@4ax.com>, Pastor Dave
<pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote:
While skydiving off of the Empire State Building on
Sat, 04 Sep 2004 12:21:47 -0600,
sdsdsdsdsd@waithingforthelight.com (sheep defender)
screamed out:
In article <89hjj09p3vrs9ie2kacoqm8qvqdehsaomh@4ax.com>, Pastor Dave
<pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote:
While skydiving off of the Empire State Building on
Fri, 03 Sep 2004 17:24:15 -0600,
sdsdsdsdsd@waithingforthelight.com (sheep defender)
screamed out:
In article <13kgj0po18qofg6t8iokkcf0umh4movgok@4ax.com>, Pastor Dave
<pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote:
While skydiving off of the Empire State Building on
Thu, 02 Sep 2004 19:28:44 -0600,
sdsdsdsdsd@waithingforthelight.com (sheep defender)
screamed out:
In article <2pop87Fjm2hgU1@uni-berlin.de>, "Martin Willett"
<ignoredmailbox@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Can any experts on the Bible clarify a point with me, does Jesus at
any time tell his disciples not to leave a written record because it
will be corrupted?
I have this from a very unreliable source, about as unreliable as they
come.
If the answer is yes then a cite of chapter and verse would be handy.
Thank you,
Martin Willett
Jesus was only concerned with his fellow poor Jews from the settlements
and more specifically, ending the Roman attrocities against them by the
virtue in his new kingdom of God theology. In his mind, the rich urban
Jews were ungodly wicked and the Gentiles were worse. He was outside of,
or at least on the very edge of, the strict laws and customs of his
setting - and so the writing down of an account of his activities would
have been a very low priority.
And you prove this how?
I can't think of how we can prove anything about this Jesus. Proof is
more than the wishful thinking of faith.
So then you admit that you presented speculation as if
it were truth.
No. I admit that I can't know the "truth" about characters from a bible
compilation. Nor can you, or anyone else, because the requisite reliable
evidence has been intentionally destroyed or lost.
Now you make yourself a liar. You made a statement, as
if it were truth. Then when proof of your statement is
requested, you retreat to this position. If you were
honest, you would have said it like this to begin with.
Of course, that doesn't mean your claim that no one can
know is accurate. It does mean however, that you don't
think anyone can know.
No, I'd be disingenuous if I said I can know the "truth" about characters
from stories in the Bible. Why is this so hard to understand? 'Maybe
you should look up the definitions of the word "truth".
Defender
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
.
|
|
|
| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: Corruption of the written word |
07 Sep 2004 05:40:22 PM |
|
|
While skydiving off of the Empire State Building on
Mon, 06 Sep 2004 15:17:57 -0600,
sdsdsdsdsd@waithingforthelight.com (sheep defender)
screamed out:
In article <fr4mj05kiemgrdp431j0ncf72jfu11mgmq@4ax.com>, Pastor Dave
<pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote:
While skydiving off of the Empire State Building on
Sat, 04 Sep 2004 12:21:47 -0600,
sdsdsdsdsd@waithingforthelight.com (sheep defender)
screamed out:
In article <89hjj09p3vrs9ie2kacoqm8qvqdehsaomh@4ax.com>, Pastor Dave
<pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote:
While skydiving off of the Empire State Building on
Fri, 03 Sep 2004 17:24:15 -0600,
sdsdsdsdsd@waithingforthelight.com (sheep defender)
screamed out:
In article <13kgj0po18qofg6t8iokkcf0umh4movgok@4ax.com>, Pastor Dave
<pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote:
While skydiving off of the Empire State Building on
Thu, 02 Sep 2004 19:28:44 -0600,
sdsdsdsdsd@waithingforthelight.com (sheep defender)
screamed out:
In article <2pop87Fjm2hgU1@uni-berlin.de>, "Martin Willett"
<ignoredmailbox@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Can any experts on the Bible clarify a point with me, does Jesus at
any time tell his disciples not to leave a written record because it
will be corrupted?
I have this from a very unreliable source, about as unreliable as they
come.
If the answer is yes then a cite of chapter and verse would be handy.
Thank you,
Martin Willett
Jesus was only concerned with his fellow poor Jews from the settlements
and more specifically, ending the Roman attrocities against them by the
virtue in his new kingdom of God theology. In his mind, the rich urban
Jews were ungodly wicked and the Gentiles were worse. He was outside of,
or at least on the very edge of, the strict laws and customs of his
setting - and so the writing down of an account of his activities would
have been a very low priority.
And you prove this how?
I can't think of how we can prove anything about this Jesus. Proof is
more than the wishful thinking of faith.
So then you admit that you presented speculation as if
it were truth.
No. I admit that I can't know the "truth" about characters from a bible
compilation. Nor can you, or anyone else, because the requisite reliable
evidence has been intentionally destroyed or lost.
Now you make yourself a liar. You made a statement, as
if it were truth. Then when proof of your statement is
requested, you retreat to this position. If you were
honest, you would have said it like this to begin with.
Of course, that doesn't mean your claim that no one can
know is accurate. It does mean however, that you don't
think anyone can know.
No, I'd be disingenuous if I said I can know the "truth" about characters
from stories in the Bible. Why is this so hard to understand? 'Maybe
you should look up the definitions of the word "truth".
Maybe you should learn what a truth claim is. Even if
you say there is no truth, you have made a truth claim
(that there is no truth) and therefore, contradict
yourself. When you say that no one can know, then you
are making a truth claim that you cannot verify. And
if you cannot verify it, then you should not be making
that truth claim, since you can't prove it is the
truth.
You also presented a picture of Jesus, based on
speculation and stated it as if it were truth. That is
two truth claims that you cannot verify.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"Were they ashamed when they made an abomination?
They were not at all ashamed, nor did they know
to blush. So they shall fall among those who fall.
At the time I visit them, they shall be cast down,
says Jehovah." - Jeremiah 6:15
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
"Faith is not an intellectual belief. Faith is
a belief with legs on it." - Adrian Rogers
-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----
.
|
|
|
| User: "sheep defender" |
|
| Title: Re: Corruption of the written word |
07 Sep 2004 08:30:56 PM |
|
|
In article <46esj0lkof68kirnst6996hfi41bjabrst@4ax.com>, Pastor Dave
<pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote:
Maybe you should learn what a truth claim is. Even if
you say there is no truth, you have made a truth claim
(that there is no truth) and therefore, contradict
yourself. When you say that no one can know, then you
are making a truth claim that you cannot verify. And
if you cannot verify it, then you should not be making
that truth claim, since you can't prove it is the
truth.
You also presented a picture of Jesus, based on
speculation and stated it as if it were truth. That is
two truth claims that you cannot verify.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
OK, since you're merely spinning words, make a truth claim and I'll call
you a liar.
Otherwise, explain to me why your faith makes you feel good. I'd like to know.
Defender
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Corruption of the written word |
08 Sep 2004 06:27:04 AM |
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While skydiving off of the Empire State Building on
Tue, 07 Sep 2004 19:30:56 -0600,
sdsdsdsdsd@waithingforthelight.com (sheep defender)
screamed out:
In article <46esj0lkof68kirnst6996hfi41bjabrst@4ax.com>, Pastor Dave
<pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote:
Maybe you should learn what a truth claim is. Even if
you say there is no truth, you have made a truth claim
(that there is no truth) and therefore, contradict
yourself. When you say that no one can know, then you
are making a truth claim that you cannot verify. And
if you cannot verify it, then you should not be making
that truth claim, since you can't prove it is the
truth.
You also presented a picture of Jesus, based on
speculation and stated it as if it were truth. That is
two truth claims that you cannot verify.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
OK, since you're merely spinning words, make a truth claim and I'll call
you a liar.
Otherwise, explain to me why your faith makes you feel good. I'd like to know.
You still have not been able to bring yourself to admit
that you have been making truth claims and then
attacking the person who calls you on them. You don't
like the truth, so you claim I'm spinning words. The
fact is, that I made a truth claim about what you're
doing and your words are my proof.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
"Were they ashamed when they made an abomination?
They were not at all ashamed, nor did they know
to blush. So they shall fall among those who fall.
At the time I visit them, they shall be cast down,
says Jehovah." - Jeremiah 6:15
"And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of
the Spirit, which is the word of God:" - Ephesians 6:17
/
o{}xxxxx[]::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::::>
\
Theistic evolutionists are out to please men,
rather than God. They claim to believe in a
virgin birth, people rising from the dead, water
turned into wine and yet, they don't believe that
God created the heaven and the earth in six literal
days, thereby making hypocrites of themselves. Why?
Because man says it isn't so and they would rather
try to please men, instead of choosing to believe
God and stand up for Him. Preachers who claim
theistic evolution are the biggest hypocrites of all
and are in the most danger. Why? Read Isaiah 9:16;
Jeremiah 23:1, 50:6. What do YOU stand for?
"...choose this day whom you will serve. ...as for
me and my house, we will serve the Lord." - Jos 24:15
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| User: "sheep defender" |
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| Title: Re: Corruption of the written word |
08 Sep 2004 08:28:55 PM |
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In article <s1rtj0d50abhfgibrv64effmncbqhsvvld@4ax.com>, Pastor Dave
<pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote:
While skydiving off of the Empire State Building on
Tue, 07 Sep 2004 19:30:56 -0600,
sdsdsdsdsd@waithingforthelight.com (sheep defender)
screamed out:
In article <46esj0lkof68kirnst6996hfi41bjabrst@4ax.com>, Pastor Dave
<pastordave38@nospam-yahoo.com> wrote:
Maybe you should learn what a truth claim is. Even if
you say there is no truth, you have made a truth claim
(that there is no truth) and therefore, contradict
yourself. When you say that no one can know, then you
are making a truth claim that you cannot verify. And
if you cannot verify it, then you should not be making
that truth claim, since you can't prove it is the
truth.
You also presented a picture of Jesus, based on
speculation and stated it as if it were truth. That is
two truth claims that you cannot verify.
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
OK, since you're merely spinning words, make a truth claim and I'll call
you a liar.
Otherwise, explain to me why your faith makes you feel good. I'd like
to know.
You still have not been able to bring yourself to admit
that you have been making truth claims and then
attacking the person who calls you on them.
How do you know I was making truth claims?
You don't
like the truth, so you claim I'm spinning words.
Which truth don't I like?
The
fact is, that I made a truth claim about what you're
doing and your words are my proof.
But what was I doing? Making truth claims or speculating?
Defender
--
Pastor Dave Raymond
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| User: "Martin Willett" |
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| Title: Re: Corruption of the written word |
03 Sep 2004 02:33:41 AM |
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sheep defender wrote:
In article <2pop87Fjm2hgU1@uni-berlin.de>, "Martin Willett"
<ignoredmailbox@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Can any experts on the Bible clarify a point with me, does Jesus at
any time tell his disciples not to leave a written record because
it
will be corrupted?
I have this from a very unreliable source, about as unreliable as
they come.
If the answer is yes then a cite of chapter and verse would be
handy.
Thank you,
Martin Willett
Jesus was only concerned with his fellow poor Jews from the
settlements and more specifically, ending the Roman attrocities
against them by the virtue in his new kingdom of God theology. In
his mind, the rich urban Jews were ungodly wicked and the Gentiles
were worse. He was outside of, or at least on the very edge of, the
strict laws and customs of his setting - and so the writing down of
an account of his activities would have been a very low priority.
Defender
Can you confirm that the Bible contains no message from Jesus advising
the disciples not to leave a written record?
--
Martin Willett
http://mwillett.org/
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| User: "sheep defender" |
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| Title: Re: Corruption of the written word |
03 Sep 2004 06:21:28 PM |
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In article <2pql22Fnpg83U1@uni-berlin.de>, "Martin Willett"
<ignoredmailbox@ntlworld.com> wrote:
sheep defender wrote:
In article <2pop87Fjm2hgU1@uni-berlin.de>, "Martin Willett"
<ignoredmailbox@ntlworld.com> wrote:
Can any experts on the Bible clarify a point with me, does Jesus at
any time tell his disciples not to leave a written record because
it
will be corrupted?
I have this from a very unreliable source, about as unreliable as
they come.
If the answer is yes then a cite of chapter and verse would be
handy.
Thank you,
Martin Willett
Jesus was only concerned with his fellow poor Jews from the
settlements and more specifically, ending the Roman attrocities
against them by the virtue in his new kingdom of God theology. In
his mind, the rich urban Jews were ungodly wicked and the Gentiles
were worse. He was outside of, or at least on the very edge of, the
strict laws and customs of his setting - and so the writing down of
an account of his activities would have been a very low priority.
Defender
Can you confirm that the Bible contains no message from Jesus advising
the disciples not to leave a written record?
--
Martin Willett
http://mwillett.org/
Yes, no message from Jesus.
Defeneder
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