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Alright, that was an excellent theory.
Now, may I ask you a very simple question.
How did the Universe and men came into existence?
"VBM" <v.mcalister@nospam.ejgd.com> wrote in message =
news:1ZnVe.9437$Wd7.8218@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Below you will find links to a number of Christian geocentrism pages:
=20
These geocentrists believe that the Bible clearly describes the solar =
system
(and the universe) as being geocentric, with the sun and stars =
revolving
around a fixed earth. They are convinced that heliocentrism (the =
current
scientific view, that the earth revolves on its axis and revolves =
around the
sun), is simply wrong since it contradicts Scripture and proper =
theology.
This was, indeed, the initial reaction of the Church and almost all
Christians when heliocentrism was first introduced, but it was =
gradually
accepted. But, as the sites below show, there are still some =
geocentric
"hold-outs".
=20
Let's say that a number of these geocentric ministries begin to gain
converts among the fundamentalist Christian groups. There are seminars =
and
books and pretty soon half of the American Christian community =
believes that
the Scripture plainly teaches that the sun and the stars revolve =
around a
fixed earth. They are out there making the following statements:
=20
1. Heliocentrism is directly contrary to Scripture, if it is true, =
Scripture
can not be trusted. And if you can't trust it when it teaches =
geocentrism,
then why would you trust it for the Gospels?
=20
2. A belief in heliocentrism is simply accepting Man's fallible =
science over
God's Word. It shows a lack of faith and a lack of trust in God. It is
compromising with the World in order to accommodate man's fallible
scientific understanding.
=20
3. The scientific belief in heliocentrism is based on a bunch of =
assumptions
and theories and just makes no sense. It takes more faith to believe =
that
the earth is spinning and revolves around the sun than to accept the =
Bible!
=20
And then they go on to present a bunch of psuedo-science to support =
their
propositions, of the type indicated on the sites linked below. They =
also
provide lots of theological arguments (again, see the sites), they say =
that
if the earth is not the center of God's Creation as it seems to be in
Genesis 1, then we are just another one of billions of planets! Our =
sun is
just one of billions in our galaxy alone, much less the universe. This
wholly undermines the clear teaching of Scripture that this planet =
earth was
the central stage for God's Creation. If we accept these cosmological
assertions by scientists, this will lead to a disbelief in God's role =
in
creation and Man's special relationship, etc, etc.
=20
They make a persuasive call to all Christians to get back to the =
truths of
Scripture, to the beliefs that all Christians had before the =
Copernican
Revolution, which was just Man's fallible attempt to understand things
without God, an atheistic philosophy intent on undermining God's Word!
=20
Now, pretty soon, most Christians in the United States are buying into =
this.
They are teaching from their pulpits and in their Sunday School =
classes that
Man's science is wrong, and the sun really revolves around a fixed =
earth.
That the stars also revolve around the earth, and that this is all =
confirmed
in Scripture. This becomes a pervasive Christian theological position =
and
kids are growing up being taught this and that heliocentrism is an =
atheistic
concept in opposition to God's Word.
=20
Next, they begin to petition to have geocentrism taught in the =
schools. They
say that their beliefs about origins should have equal time with the =
idea
that the earth revolves around the sun. They want science classes to =
teach
that some believes the earth spins, while some believe it is fixed. =
They
want THEIR scientific propositions taught as well as standard science. =
And,
amazingly, you begin to see it happening. There are teachers in the =
Bible
Belt actually being required to present the geocentric model as an
alternative!
=20
Now, you, as a Christian, don't believe any of this. You believe just =
as you
do right now, you accept heliocentrism because you interpret Scripture =
in a
way that does not conflict with heliocentrism and you believe the =
evidence
from the scientific community is persuasive. But when you go and =
attempt to
witness, you come across more and more non-Christians who say "why =
should I
believe in a Bible that teaches something as idiotic as the sun =
revolving
around the earth?!" You try to explain that those geocentric =
Christians are
wrong. They resist because every Christian they have ever met believes =
this
nonsense. Sometimes you can get through, sometimes you can't.
=20
Next, you are a youth and college worker at your church. More and =
more, you
are having kids coming up to you saying "hey, I have studying up on =
this
heliocentrism stuff, and it sounds like it is probably correct! The =
evidence
really DOES indicate that the earth revolves around the sun, but what =
does
that mean for Scripture. Is it just wrong? How do I know what to =
believe in
the Bible and what not?" You go through and show them how all those =
verses
can be read non-literally and that they need not accept geocentrism to
believe in Scripture. You explain to them that they CAN accept =
heliocentrism
and be a Christian.
=20
You see that these geocentrist ministries are building up to make an =
even
bigger push. They are on the radio, even on TV! You see non-Christians
denying a religion that is teaching scientific nonsense. You see our =
youth
facing crises of faith over this issue. You see Christianity becoming
associated with scientific propositions that are just wrong and =
undermining
the perceived legitimacy of Christianity overall.
=20
Whenever you talk to these Christian geocentrists, and try to explain =
the
interpretive problems with their position and/or explain the science, =
they
eventually just say that you trusting man's word over God's Word, that =
you
just need to accept Scripture the way it is written, that you just =
don't
have enough faith and trust in God.
=20
What would you do? Would you just sit back and let it all happen? =
Would you
just talk to these geocentrists in private and ask them to stop doing =
what
they are doing, even though you could not possibly stop all these =
ministries
from presenting geocentrism. Would you speak out publically so in an =
effort
to let everyone know that not all Christians are geocentrists?
=20
Now a couple of other thoughts. It is a common YEC theme that we =
should not
trust man's knowledge or wisdom, that God uses the foolish, etc, etc. =
If you
ever try to point out that their science just doesn't make sense, they =
say
that God's truth will always look foolish to man. Well, how about the
Biblical interpretation and scientific propositions stated in the =
geocentric
sites linked above? Do you not think that they are wrong, even
embarrassingly wrong? Is that the image of Christianity that we want =
to
present to the non-Christian? Not that we should be worried about =
pleasing
the world, but can you not see that this type of presentation of =
science and
theology would be damaging to the presentation of the Gospel?
=20
Well, I can tell you that the non-Christian who knows anything at all =
about
these issues views YEC'ism EXACTLY the same way. YEC'ism looks and =
sounds
just as scientifically ignorant and backward. And us theistic =
evolutionists
view YEC'ism as a movement EXACTLY as YEC's view geocentrism as a =
movement.
=20
As a fellow Christian, I implore Creationists to consider the
stumbling-block they are creating by their dogmatism.
=20
http://www.fixedearth.com/geni15.htm
=20
http://www.fixedearth.com/Size%20and%20Structure%20Part%20I.htm
=20
and more generally here:
=20
http://www.fixedearth.com/
=20
=20
------=_NextPart_000_012C_01C5B8BD.13643070
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<DIV><FONT face=3DGautami size=3D4>Alright, that was an excellent=20
theory.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DGautami size=3D4>Now, may I ask you a very simple=20
question.</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DGautami size=3D4>How did the Universe and men came =
into=20
existence?</FONT></DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2></FONT> </DIV>
<DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>"VBM" <</FONT><A=20
href=3D"mailto:v.mcalister@nospam.ejgd.com"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>v.mcalister@nospam.ejgd.com</FONT></A><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>> wrote=20
in message </FONT><A=20
href=3D"news:1ZnVe.9437$Wd7.8218@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net"><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>news:1ZnVe.9437$Wd7.8218@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net</FONT>=
</A><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>...</FONT></DIV><FONT face=3DArial size=3D2>> =
Below you will=20
find links to a number of Christian geocentrism pages:<BR>> <BR>> =
These=20
geocentrists believe that the Bible clearly describes the solar =
system<BR>>=20
(and the universe) as being geocentric, with the sun and stars =
revolving<BR>>=20
around a fixed earth. They are convinced that heliocentrism (the=20
current<BR>> scientific view, that the earth revolves on its axis and =
revolves around the<BR>> sun), is simply wrong since it contradicts =
Scripture=20
and proper theology.<BR>> This was, indeed, the initial reaction of =
the=20
Church and almost all<BR>> Christians when heliocentrism was first=20
introduced, but it was gradually<BR>> accepted. But, as the =
sites below=20
show, there are still some geocentric<BR>> "hold-outs".<BR>> =
<BR>>=20
Let's say that a number of these geocentric ministries begin to =
gain<BR>>=20
converts among the fundamentalist Christian groups. There are seminars=20
and<BR>> books and pretty soon half of the American Christian =
community=20
believes that<BR>> the Scripture plainly teaches that the sun and the =
stars=20
revolve around a<BR>> fixed earth. They are out there making the =
following=20
statements:<BR>> <BR>> 1. Heliocentrism is directly contrary to =
Scripture,=20
if it is true, Scripture<BR>> can not be trusted. And if you can't =
trust it=20
when it teaches geocentrism,<BR>> then why would you trust it for the =
Gospels?<BR>> <BR>> 2. A belief in heliocentrism is simply =
accepting Man's=20
fallible science over<BR>> God's Word. It shows a lack of faith and a =
lack of=20
trust in God. It is<BR>> compromising with the World in order to =
accommodate=20
man's fallible<BR>> scientific understanding.<BR>> <BR>> 3. The =
scientific belief in heliocentrism is based on a bunch of =
assumptions<BR>>=20
and theories and just makes no sense. It takes more faith to believe=20
that<BR>> the earth is spinning and revolves around the sun than to =
accept=20
the Bible!<BR>> <BR>> And then they go on to present a bunch of=20
psuedo-science to support their<BR>> propositions, of the type =
indicated on=20
the sites linked below. They also<BR>> provide lots of theological =
arguments=20
(again, see the sites), they say that<BR>> if the earth is not the =
center of=20
God's Creation as it seems to be in<BR>> Genesis 1, then we are just =
another=20
one of billions of planets! Our sun is<BR>> just one of billions in =
our=20
galaxy alone, much less the universe. This<BR>> wholly undermines the =
clear=20
teaching of Scripture that this planet earth was<BR>> the central =
stage for=20
God's Creation. If we accept these cosmological<BR>> assertions by=20
scientists, this will lead to a disbelief in God's role in<BR>> =
creation and=20
Man's special relationship, etc, etc.<BR>> <BR>> They make a =
persuasive=20
call to all Christians to get back to the truths of<BR>> Scripture, =
to the=20
beliefs that all Christians had before the Copernican<BR>> =
Revolution, which=20
was just Man's fallible attempt to understand things<BR>> without =
God, an=20
atheistic philosophy intent on undermining God's Word!<BR>> <BR>> =
Now,=20
pretty soon, most Christians in the United States are buying into =
this.<BR>>=20
They are teaching from their pulpits and in their Sunday School classes=20
that<BR>> Man's science is wrong, and the sun really revolves around =
a fixed=20
earth.<BR>> That the stars also revolve around the earth, and that =
this is=20
all confirmed<BR>> in Scripture. This becomes a pervasive Christian=20
theological position and<BR>> kids are growing up being taught this =
and that=20
heliocentrism is an atheistic<BR>> concept in opposition to God's=20
Word.<BR>> <BR>> Next, they begin to petition to have geocentrism =
taught=20
in the schools. They<BR>> say that their beliefs about origins should =
have=20
equal time with the idea<BR>> that the earth revolves around the sun. =
They=20
want science classes to teach<BR>> that some believes the earth =
spins, while=20
some believe it is fixed. They<BR>> want THEIR scientific =
propositions taught=20
as well as standard science. And,<BR>> amazingly, you begin to see it =
happening. There are teachers in the Bible<BR>> Belt actually being =
required=20
to present the geocentric model as an<BR>> alternative!<BR>> =
<BR>> Now,=20
you, as a Christian, don't believe any of this. You believe just as =
you<BR>>=20
do right now, you accept heliocentrism because you interpret Scripture =
in=20
a<BR>> way that does not conflict with heliocentrism and you believe =
the=20
evidence<BR>> from the scientific community is persuasive. But when =
you go=20
and attempt to<BR>> witness, you come across more and more =
non-Christians who=20
say "why should I<BR>> believe in a Bible that teaches something as =
idiotic=20
as the sun revolving<BR>> around the earth?!" You try to explain that =
those=20
geocentric Christians are<BR>> wrong. They resist because every =
Christian=20
they have ever met believes this<BR>> nonsense. Sometimes you can get =
through, sometimes you can't.<BR>> <BR>> Next, you are a youth and =
college=20
worker at your church. More and more, you<BR>> are having kids coming =
up to=20
you saying "hey, I have studying up on this<BR>> heliocentrism stuff, =
and it=20
sounds like it is probably correct! The evidence<BR>> really DOES =
indicate=20
that the earth revolves around the sun, but what does<BR>> that mean =
for=20
Scripture. Is it just wrong? How do I know what to believe in<BR>> =
the Bible=20
and what not?" You go through and show them how all those verses<BR>> =
can be=20
read non-literally and that they need not accept geocentrism to<BR>> =
believe=20
in Scripture. You explain to them that they CAN accept =
heliocentrism<BR>> and=20
be a Christian.<BR>> <BR>> You see that these geocentrist =
ministries are=20
building up to make an even<BR>> bigger push. They are on the radio, =
even on=20
TV! You see non-Christians<BR>> denying a religion that is teaching=20
scientific nonsense. You see our youth<BR>> facing crises of faith =
over this=20
issue. You see Christianity becoming<BR>> associated with scientific=20
propositions that are just wrong and undermining<BR>> the perceived=20
legitimacy of Christianity overall.<BR>> <BR>> Whenever you talk =
to these=20
Christian geocentrists, and try to explain the<BR>> interpretive =
problems=20
with their position and/or explain the science, they<BR>> eventually =
just say=20
that you trusting man's word over God's Word, that you<BR>> just need =
to=20
accept Scripture the way it is written, that you just don't<BR>> have =
enough=20
faith and trust in God.<BR>> <BR>> What would you do? Would you =
just sit=20
back and let it all happen? Would you<BR>> just talk to these =
geocentrists in=20
private and ask them to stop doing what<BR>> they are doing, even =
though you=20
could not possibly stop all these ministries<BR>> from presenting=20
geocentrism. Would you speak out publically so in an effort<BR>> to =
let=20
everyone know that not all Christians are geocentrists?<BR>> <BR>> =
Now a=20
couple of other thoughts. It is a common YEC theme that we should =
not<BR>>=20
trust man's knowledge or wisdom, that God uses the foolish, etc, etc. If =
you<BR>> ever try to point out that their science just doesn't make =
sense,=20
they say<BR>> that God's truth will always look foolish to man. Well, =
how=20
about the<BR>> Biblical interpretation and scientific propositions =
stated in=20
the geocentric<BR>> sites linked above? Do you not think that they =
are wrong,=20
even<BR>> embarrassingly wrong? Is that the image of Christianity =
that we=20
want to<BR>> present to the non-Christian? Not that we should be =
worried=20
about pleasing<BR>> the world, but can you not see that this type of=20
presentation of science and<BR>> theology would be damaging to the=20
presentation of the Gospel?<BR>> <BR>> Well, I can tell you that =
the=20
non-Christian who knows anything at all about<BR>> these issues views =
YEC'ism=20
EXACTLY the same way. YEC'ism looks and sounds<BR>> just as =
scientifically=20
ignorant and backward. And us theistic evolutionists<BR>> view =
YEC'ism as a=20
movement EXACTLY as YEC's view geocentrism as a movement.<BR>> =
<BR>> As a=20
fellow Christian, I implore Creationists to consider the<BR>> =
stumbling-block=20
they are creating by their dogmatism.<BR>> <BR>> </FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://www.fixedearth.com/geni15.htm"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>http://www.fixedearth.com/geni15.htm</FONT></A><BR><FONT =
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>> <BR>> </FONT><A=20
href=3D"http://www.fixedearth.com/Size%20and%20Structure%20Part%20I.htm">=
<FONT=20
face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>http://www.fixedearth.com/Size%20and%20Structure%20Part%20I.htm<=
/FONT></A><BR><FONT=20
face=3DArial size=3D2>> <BR>> and more generally here:<BR>> =
<BR>>=20
</FONT><A href=3D"http://www.fixedearth.com/"><FONT face=3DArial=20
size=3D2>http://www.fixedearth.com/</FONT></A><BR><FONT face=3DArial =
size=3D2>>=20
<BR>> <BR>></FONT></BODY></HTML>
------=_NextPart_000_012C_01C5B8BD.13643070--
.
