| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Pastor Dave" |
| Date: |
22 Oct 2007 04:13:27 PM |
| Object: |
CROSSWALK.COM - DO THEY REALLY USE STRONG'S??? |
I am quoting my response I wrote to someone, who believes
in the Rapture (I do not) and when I said that the word
"air" in 1 Thes 4:17 does not mean the air in the sky,
but the air we breathe and the air that immediately
surrounds us, she claimed I was wrong and quoted what
she claimed was Strong's, but it was not.
I'm not telling you that you have to believe what I do.
If you want to believe in the Rapture, that is your choice.
But I will prove to you, in this case, it actually says the
air we breathe and that which surrounds us and not
the air in the sky and I have shown folks proof from
the Bible, of the "clouds" being used symbolically.
I have also shown proof many times, that in Jewish thought
in that time, it also simply meant the air that we breathe
and that which was circumambient. This is of course,
always ignored, but there it is none-the-less.
I don't know about you, but I always thought that truth
came first. And I will not change that motto and just
pay lip service to it, just because I don't like what it
does to my doctrine!
And you can choose to pick Thayer's over Strong's,
because you like what it says. I will show you both
of them in this message.
But the word means what it means, whether we want
to hear it or not. And we can choose to keep saying it
means what we wanted to hear and bring other people
down a false path, that we will now know is indeed false,
or we can stick to the truth, amen?
And majority opinion does not equal truth. If it did,
the prophets would not have died and Christ would
not have been crucified and if it did, you should all
believe in evolution! :)
It is not my intent to judge you, just to educate you.
And so, I ask you to read this for educational purposes
and not to argue about. I have simply stated facts
below that you all should be aware of, when using
"Bible" web sites, that claim to be showing you Strong's
definitions, or at least appear to be, to the uneducated.
The fact is, the Greek word behind the word "air" in
1 Thes 4:17 does NOT mean the air in the sky and it
is NOT Strongs' definitions that they're showing you
on these web sites! And you can bet that they chose
Thayer's, because it says what they want it to!
This is very important, since Strong's is the de facto
standard in Hebrew & Greek lexicons, which is why
almost every lexicon uses Strongs' numbering system,
including Thayer's!
The problem with some other lexicons, like Thayer's,
is that they add definitions to words, as time goes by
and as new doctrines come along. Is that the Christian
way, people?!
But why is this bad anyway? Not that this should need
explanation, but the answer is really quite simple. :)
Because as Christians, we spend a lot of time in the
New Testament!
So why does that matter? Again... Simple! :)
Because the New Testament was written in what's called
"Koine Greek". This was the "street Greek" of the common
man. The exceptions are Luke and Acts, which were written
by Luke and while sort of Koine Greek, do approach what
is called "Classical Greek".
The point I'm making here, is that the language that
the New Testament is a DEAD LANGUAGE and therefore,
cannot possibly change! And besides this, it wouldn't
matter even if it were still around, since it is what the
words meant BACK THEN when the NT was written
that is important, amen?
And so, when lexicons add definitions to suit doctrines,
such as Thayer's does, thereby ending up with sometimes
12 to 14 definitions for a single word (that is true), which
means that it ends up meaning just about anything you
want it to, which actually ends up making the word
meaningless, then the lexicon is useless as a tool of
truth, amen?
This is repeated further down, but I just wanted to set
the tone for the response I wrote to this person, who
insisted that "crosswalk.com" uses Strong's, when they
don't. I have been a user of Strong's for almost 20 years
and I think I know what it looks like! :)
Therefore, someone looking at a web page and not
understanding the difference between "Strong's definitions"
and merely using the "Strong's numbering system" and
then claiming they are teaching me and calling me a liar
(I have snipped all of that for the purpose of this message)
as this person had done, will simply not wash! (:
This is NOT a matter of ego. This is a matter of FACT!
And I feel that it is important for people to know what
the actual facts are. Don't you?
First let me say that...
<ALL CAPS AND EXCLAMATION MARKS ARE FOR
EMPHASIS ONLY AND NOT MEANT AS SHOUTING>
So please, review this for the information only and
I hope you will be blessed by it and that it will help
your studies along! :)
So let us begin with this person's words quoted...
Go to www.crosswalk.com
Go to Bible Study Tools.
Select "New Testament"
Select: KJV with Strong's Numbers.
And now I will break it up, to respond to each part...
Go to www.crosswalk.com
I've been there. They use Thayer's lexicon, which uses
Strong's NUMBERS. Thayer's has always used Strong's
numbering system. Almost all lexicons do. This is so
people can easily go from one lexicon to another and
easily look up the same word.
But hey, why believe me? Go here and read what
Crosswalk themselves say they use for a lexicon:
http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/
And I quote now from that web page:
New Testament Greek
The New Testament Greek lexicon based on Thayer's
and Smith's Bible Dictionary plus others; this is keyed
to the large Kittel and the "Theological Dictionary of
the New Testament."
Notice folks... NO STRONG'S lexicon!!! It is not used
by Crosswalk.Com!!!
You need to get more humble (as we all should)
and stop pretending you are my teacher and I'm
just some "know nothing" idiot, who just opened
a Bible for the first time!
I have been using Strong's for almost 20 years,
including in book form, going back many editions!
Strong's does *_NOT_* number their definitions!
If you see numbered definitions for a word on
ANY web site, it is NOT Strongs' definitions!
THAT IS A FACT!!! Email them, if you don't believe me!
Select: KJV with Strong's Numbers.
What you are using, is a different lexicon with
Strong's *_NUMBERS_*, as I PROVED above.
Notice, it does not say, "Strong's definitions".
It says "KJV with Strong's NUMBERS"!
What you don't understand, is that the Strong's
numbering system is THE standard and almost
all lexicons use the Strong's numbering system!
I had another guy try to argue this with me.
I had to email the publisher and forward him
a copy of their response, to prove it to him.
Do I need to do the same thing with you?!
Why do you come in here and think you're going
to teach a Pastor, who has been using the system
for almost 20 years, what's what with Strong's,
because you found a we page that says,
"Strong's NUMBERS" are used?!? Are you really
this arrogant and foolish?!? That's a question,
not an insult.
The reason I don't use others, like Thayer's,
which is what they're quoting the definition from,
is because Thayer's, for example, keeps adding
definitions to words over time, with every wind
of doctrine that comes around! Compare the
very first Thayer's, or at least a much older one
with what is currently published, if you don't
believe me!
Koine Greek, which is what is in the New Testament,
was the "street Greek" (in contrast to Classical Greek,
which was the formal, educated man's Greek, which
is what Luke and Acts are closer to) is a dead language
and therefore, cannot change!!! But even if it could,
the only thing that would be important, is what a
word meant back then, amen?
Compare Thayer's with itself, for example, over the years
and compare it to doctrines that have come around and
you'll find that afterward, magically, the word had another
definition in Thayer's!
Now here is a DIRECT QUOTE from Strong's, regarding
the word "air" in 1 Thessalonians 4:17, which you claim
means the air in the sky and quoted what you thought
was Strong's to try to prove, but was really Thayer's
and was not accurate!
Strong's actually says...
G109
aer
ah-ayr'
(to breathe unconsciously, that is, respire;
by analogy to blow); “air” (as naturally
circumambient): - air.
Air that is circumambient! It is the air you breathe
and that which surrounds you, which is what the
word "circumambient" means, not the air in the sky!
Now I will explain Strong's to you once, so please,
pay attention! :)
The Strong's word number appears first (G109).
The "G" is for "Greek". There is both an Hebrew
and a Greek lexicon in Strong's.
Next is the transliteration of the word (aer).
Next is the pronunciation of the word (ah-ayr').
Next is the definition of the word...
To breathe unconsciously, that is, respire; by analogy
to blow; “air” (as naturally circumambient).
Then you see a dash ( - air ).
What is after the dash is NOT a definition, but is merely
all of the words that this word was translated into, in
the KJV. It is not an endorsement of the translation!
It is merely reporting what word(s) the word was
translated into, in the KJV. Only the definition portion,
is the definition of the word!
Do you get it now???
IT DOES NOT MEAN THE AIR IN THE SKY!!!
Paul also used this same word to say (think boxing here
and I will show you which Greek word is there, within
the parenthesis)...
"I therefore so run, not as uncertainly; so fight I,
not as one that beateth the air (aer)" - 1 Cor 9:26
Now was he talking about floating up in the sky, to fight
the sky? Of course not!!! He used the example of a
fighter, like a boxer today, shadow boxing and was
basically saying that he doesn't waste time shadow boxing
(using today's example), but rather, gets right down to
fighting his opponent and he fights to win!
But when speaking of the air in the sky, this is what
we see (it is Jesus speaking)...
"Behold the fowls of the air (ouranos): for they sow not,
neither do they reap, nor gather into barns; yet your
heavenly Father feedeth them. Are ye not much better
than they?" - Mat 6:26
Now again, a COMPLETE quote DIRECT from Strong's!:
G3772
ouranos
oo-ran-os'
the sky; by extension heaven (as the abode of God);
by implication happiness, power, eternity; specifically
the Gospel (Christianity): - air, heaven ([-ly]), sky.
Now notice, it says "THE SKY"!!!
Also, compare the following passages, which speak of
the air in the sky:
Mat 8:20; 13:32; Mark 4:4; 4:32; Luke 8:5; 9:58;
Acts 10:12; 11:6
All of these use the word "ouranos" and all mention
"the fowls of the air", which we know means the
birds in the sky.
But now go to Acts 22:23 and notice that the word "aer"
is used there, not "ouranos" and look at what the verse
says and what is happening! Surely they didn't throw
their clothes all the way up to where the clouds are,
but only made it a couple, or maybe a few feet up!
"And as they cried out, and cast off their clothes,
and threw dust into the air (aer)." - Acts 22:23
Now, do you wish to continue acting the way you are
about this, because you think your misunderstanding
of what a web page is presenting is more powerful
evidence than a direct quote from Strong's, along with
the FACT that they don't number their definitions and
the web site itself saying that they use Thayer's?
Or do you wish to concede this point? :)
You can be honest here, or you can decide that your
doctrine is more important to you than the facts of
the language and what God's word actually says.
It is your choice <name deleted>.
And for your edification, here is a web site that uses
straight Strong's:
http://www.eliyah.com/lexicon.html
Go to the second box down and type in "109", which is
the word number. It'll show a few different words with
their numbers, because it is done in one long list, but
"109" will be there and you'll see that it matches what
I posted here perfectly!
I know this word in Strong's well! But still, just for you,
I rechecked in the printed book, my Strong's software
and this web site and they all match perfectly!
Remember, use the second box down, which is the
lexicon box, which is what we are talking about here!
<big snip>
That was the end of the message I was quoting folks.
Please, please, please!!! Take the lesson from this
message! The word means what it mean and example
after example provided from the NT has proved that
to you in this message!
Now will you listen to what GOD'S WORD (NOT ME)
says? Or will you be foolish enough to insist that
what I showed you is true, oh, but except for that
one verse, in which you will insist that it still means
the air in the sky, only for the reason that YOU WANT
IT TO MEAN THAT?!?
Your choice folks, but please, don't think you're
fooling me, nor yourselves, NOR GOD!!!
And just so you know, yes, I will entertain civil
discussion, but attacking me, or demanding answers
to questions other than this word in these verses
and thinking that demanding to know, "Oh yea?!
Well then, when did this and this and that happen?!"
means that you've somehow disproved what I said,
is pure stupidity and desperation and we all know it!!!
So please, discuss THE POINTS POSTED, or don't
bother discussing it AT ALL!
And you can claim that I fire off at people, while
ignoring the fact that it is the attacks on me that
I am responding to if you wish, but that would
also be a lie!
So do yourself a favor and take the FACTUAL information
provided here and utilize it, instead of being stupid, okay?
--
If you wouldn't say it in person, why say it online?
To email me, just remove the underscores.
.
|
|
| User: " ::: good news :::" |
|
| Title: Re: CROSSWALK.COM - DO THEY REALLY USE STRONG'S??? |
22 Oct 2007 04:38:22 PM |
|
|
In news:km0qh39q2ghkoddcd5nuct29d5mmrjd6s8@4ax.com,
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> typed:
I am quoting my response I wrote to someone, who believes
in the Rapture (I do not) and when I said that the word
"air" in 1 Thes 4:17 does not mean the air in the sky,
but the air we breathe and the air that immediately
surrounds us,
What????????
He surely could not give a verse that gave proof of this nonsense, could
he?
she claimed I was wrong
She was right.
and quoted what
she claimed was Strong's, but it was not.
I'm not telling you that you have to believe what I do.
If you want to believe in the Rapture, that is your choice.
Correct!
But I will prove to you, in this case, it actually says the
air we breathe and that which surrounds us and not
the air in the sky and I have shown folks proof from
the Bible, of the "clouds" being used symbolically.
Book, chapter, verse, please, and put it right there:
___________________________________
___________________________________
___________________________________
As long as "Pastor" Dave cannot give any proof for his wildest dreams,
the rest of his post should be ignored for what it is: a blasphemous
attempt of indoctrinating people with no base in Scripture.
As long as the fruits of this "pastor" are like demonstrated in the
following post, he should be ignored completely:
*************************
"Pastor" Dave wrote in
news:dqt4g3l66hrhi9mr6fpu093ov3suqk7m11@4ax.com as follows:
Sorry, your ***** accusations that you made
You're a ***** liar
Screw you! You're an *****!
Yet you are stupid enough
*****!!!
Listen, you dumb *****!
*****!
You are a liar!
fucking
You are one dumb, lying *****
you are everything that men hate about women!
And you should be smacked right upside your head!
I hate women LIKE YOU!!!
You're the dumb ***** that lies to men and says
that you would never hurt them and then marries them and
tries to control their every fucking move!
I didn't marry a dumb ***** like you!
I just watched my
friends do it and now they regret being anywhere near
their wives, because they're dumb ***** liars, LIKE YOU!
you fucking moron!
To email me, just remove the underscores.
******************
Please do not listen to this counterfeit Christian "Pastor" Dave or any
of his various handles.
[snip]
--
___________________________________________________
::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::::::
::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::::::
::::::: http://www.e-sword.net :::::::
::::::: http://alpha.org/default.asp :::::::
.
|
|
|
|
|
Related Articles |
|
|
