| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Pastor Dave" |
| Date: |
20 Sep 2007 05:11:09 AM |
| Object: |
C.S. Lewis on Matthew 24:34 |
Say what you like, we shall be told, the apocalyptic
beliefs of the first Christians have been proved to be
false. It is clear from the New Testament that they
all expected the Second Coming in their own lifetime.
And, worse still, they had a reason, and one which
you will find very embarrassing. Their Master had
told them so. He shared, and indeed created, their
delusion. He said in so many words, 'This generation
shall not pass till all these things be done'. And he
was wrong. He clearly knew no more about the
end of the world than anyone else.
It is certainly the most embarrassing verse in the Bible.
Yet how teasing, also, that within fourteen words of it
should come the statement, 'But of that day and that hour
knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven,
neither the Son, but the Father'. The one exhibition
of error and the one confession of ignorance grow
side by side.
To this, the skeptic may reply, If Jesus incorrectly
predicted His return within the contemporaneous
generation, but actually did not know that He was
going to return within that time frame, then why
did He so confidently assert that all of the words
He had just spoken would come to pass in
Matthew 24:35? He said, 'Heaven and earth shall
pass away, but my words shall not pass away'.
--
To email me, just remove the underscores.
A liberal is someone who will give away everything
except his/her own possessions.
.
|
|
| User: "Fred A Stover" |
|
| Title: Re: C.S. Lewis on Matthew 24:34 |
21 Sep 2007 11:55:59 PM |
|
|
"Pastor Knave" < SATAN_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:pph4f31tjf151lmoe7slgh9d6q1f40k0ao@4ax.com...
Say what you like, we shall be told, the apocalyptic
beliefs of the first Christians have been proved to be
false. It is clear from the New Testament that they
all expected the Second Coming in their own lifetime.
ROLFL!!!
Wrong, Satan. Folks with discernment know what the scripture teaches. You
don't:
1 Cor. 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for
they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are
spiritually discerned.
The Rapture: What is it? When is it?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Early Church Father Tertullian (circa 160-225 AD):
"But we do confess that a kingdom is promised to us upon the earth, although
before heaven, only in another state of existence; inasmuch as it will be
after the resurrection for a thousand years in the divinely-built city of
Jerusalem, 'let down from heaven,'"
Early Church Father Justin Martyr (circa 100-165 AD):
"We have perceived, moreover, that the expression, 'The day of the Lord is
as a thousand years,' is connected with this subject. And further, there was
a certain man with us, whose name was John, one of the apostles of Christ,
who prophesied, by a revelation that was made to him, that those who
believed in our Christ would dwell a thousand years in Jerusalem; and that
thereafter the general, and, in short, the eternal resurrection and judgment
of all men would likewise take place. Just as our Lord also said, 'They
shall neither marry nor be given in marriage, but shall be equal to the
angels, the children of the God of the resurrection.'"[ THE SECOND APOLOGY
OF JUSTIN FOR THE CHRISTIANS ADDRESSED TO THE ROMAN SENATE, Chap 81]
Early Church Father Irenaeus (circa 130-202 AD):
"For in as many days as this world was made, in so many thousand years shall
it be concluded. And for this reason the Scripture says: Thus the heaven and
the earth were finished, and all their adornment. And God brought to a
conclusion upon the sixth day the works that He had made; and God rested
upon the seventh day from all His works.' This is an account of the things
formerly created, as also it is a prophecy of what is to come. For the day
of the Lord is as a thousand years; and in six days created things were
completed: it is evident, therefore, that they will come to an end at the
sixth thousand year. Irenaeus against Hersies, Book 5, Chap 28, sec 3
"But when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he
will reign for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at
Jerusalem; and then the Lord will come from heaven in the clouds, in the
glory of the Father, sending this man and those who follow him into the lake
of fire; but bringing in for the righteous the times of the kingdom, that
is, the rest, the hallowed seventh day; and restoring to Abraham the
promised inheritance, in which kingdom the Lord declared, that 'many coming
from the east and from the west should sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and
Jacob.'Irenaeus against Hersies, Book 5, Chap 30, sec 4
"The predicted blessing, therefore, belongs unquestionably to the times of
the kingdom, when the righteous shall bear rule upon their rising from the
dead." Irenaeus against Hersies, Book 5, Chap 33, sec 3
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In scripture the rapture is described in 1Thess 4:17 Then we which are alive
and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the
Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. It is our being
caught up to meet the Lord. As He promised I go to prepare a place for you
and I will come again, and receive you unto myself (John 14:2-3).
The word rapture comes from the Latin Vulgate version of the Bible deinde
nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur ***** illis in nubibus obviam
Domino in aera et sic semper ***** Domino erimus. The we...shall be caught up
in English is rapiemur in Latin. Rapiemur is the future passive of the Latin
verb for to seize away [rapio, -ere, rapui, raptum], and the English word
rapture comes from the future participle of rapio [rapturus, -a, -um], just
as the English word capture comes from the Latin word capio.
Our Lord was referring to the rapture in Matt 24:30-31 when He said, And
then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all
the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in
the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his
angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his
elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. However, the
rapture is only part of this thorough gathering of all His elect. In
addition to the Christians who will be gathered into His rest (Heb 4:9), and
go to the place prepared (John 14:2-3), the heavenly city (Heb 11:16). The
enemy-of-the-gospel elect are also gathered: As concerning the gospel, they
are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved
for the fathers' sakes (Rom 11:28). They enter His wrath instead of His
rest: Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest
(Ps 95:11). As we go to the place prepared for us, they are returned to
Israel: Ezek 37:12 Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause
you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel,
where they are saved after He has arrived And I will pour upon the house of
David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of
supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they
shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in
bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn (Zech
12:10) and For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their
sins (Rom 11:27). The gathering of his elect from the four winds, from one
end of heaven to the other is all of His elect.
In Matt 24:37 the Lord says, But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the
coming of the Son of man be, and in Gen 7:16-17 it is written And they that
went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and
the LORD shut him in. And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the
waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.
The door was shut and the flood was on the earth. The door to His rest is
shut when the last gentile enters-in: For I would not, brethren, that ye
should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own
conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of
the Gentiles be come in" (Rom 11:25)], as in the days of Noah, His wrath
will rain down upon the earth. We are also told that the rapture follows the
revealing of the man on sin: Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of
our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, that ye be
not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor
by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man
deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a
falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is
worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself
that he is God (2 Thess 2:1-4). These verses not only tell us that His
coming and our being gathered to Him will follow the revealing of the
antichrist, but also tell us how he will be revealed. He will sit in the
temple shewing himself to be God by sitting in God's place: the mercy seat
between the cherubim on the ark of the covenant.
The time of the rapture is at the time when the two witnesses ascend into
heaven in Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto
them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their
enemies beheld them. The two witnesses are part of all His elect which are
gathered from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other (Matt
24:31). They are changed, putting on immortality and ascending into heaven,
at the same time, the same twinkling of an eye, that we all are changed at
the last trump in Rev 11 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all
sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye,
at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised
incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on
incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality
(1Cor 15:51-53). The church enters His rest and the rest of mankind enters
His wrath.
The rest into which the church enters but His-enemy-of-the-gospel elect do
not enter is His day of rest Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in
David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear
his voice, harden not your hearts (Heb 4:7). It is the same day as the day
of the Lord But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in
the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements
shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein
shall be burned up (2Pet 3:10). It begins with His coming like a thief in
the night and ends at the end of His 1000 year reign when there is a new
heaven and a new earth And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first
heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea" (Rev
21:1) and His bride, the church, descends in the place He prepared for her
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of
heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband (Rev 21:2).
It is written in 2 Pet 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing,
that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as
one day, and the day of His rest, the day of the Lord, is a 1000 year day,
which is the third day of the prophecy in Hosea 6:2 to Jews who will live in
His millennial reign After two days will he revive us: in the third day he
will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.
What is revealed by the 1000 year days in scripture is a week of 1000 year
days with the last day of the week being the day of the Lord, the day of His
rest. The three days of Hosea 6:2, the three at the end of the week, are
what scripture calls the last days, and the first day is the day in which
Adam ate of the forbidden fruit and died at the age of 930 But of the tree
of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day
that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die (Gen 2:17).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
His,
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon ota akoueto Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
And, worse still, they had a reason, and one which
you will find very embarrassing. Their Master had
told them so. He shared, and indeed created, their
delusion. He said in so many words, 'This generation
shall not pass till all these things be done'. And he
was wrong. He clearly knew no more about the
end of the world than anyone else.
It is certainly the most embarrassing verse in the Bible.
Yet how teasing, also, that within fourteen words of it
should come the statement, 'But of that day and that hour
knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven,
neither the Son, but the Father'. The one exhibition
of error and the one confession of ignorance grow
side by side.
To this, the skeptic may reply, If Jesus incorrectly
predicted His return within the contemporaneous
generation, but actually did not know that He was
going to return within that time frame, then why
did He so confidently assert that all of the words
He had just spoken would come to pass in
Matthew 24:35? He said, 'Heaven and earth shall
pass away, but my words shall not pass away'.
--
To email me, just remove the underscores.
A liberal is someone who will give away everything
except his/her own possessions.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mistylien" |
|
| Title: Re: C.S. Lewis on Matthew 24:34 |
22 Sep 2007 01:49:50 AM |
|
|
"Fred A Stover" <fredstover7@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:zf1Ji.855$6p6.4@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
"Pastor Knave" < SATAN_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:pph4f31tjf151lmoe7slgh9d6q1f40k0ao@4ax.com...
Say what you like, we shall be told, the apocalyptic
beliefs of the first Christians have been proved to be
false. It is clear from the New Testament that they
all expected the Second Coming in their own lifetime.
ROLFL!!!
Wrong, Satan. Folks with discernment know what the scripture teaches. You don't:
1 Cor. 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are
foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.
The Rapture: What is it? When is it?
The "Rapture" is and always has been Jesus Building his Church with
Souls that Believe.
Just as the Bible show He was doing from the very day he was
Resurrected from the Dead.
Luke 24 and
John 20.
M, + + +
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Early Church Father Tertullian (circa 160-225 AD):
"But we do confess that a kingdom is promised to us upon the earth, although before
heaven, only in another state of existence; inasmuch as it will be after the
resurrection for a thousand years in the divinely-built city of Jerusalem, 'let down
from heaven,'"
Early Church Father Justin Martyr (circa 100-165 AD):
"We have perceived, moreover, that the expression, 'The day of the Lord is as a thousand
years,' is connected with this subject. And further, there was a certain man with us,
whose name was John, one of the apostles of Christ, who prophesied, by a revelation that
was made to him, that those who believed in our Christ would dwell a thousand years in
Jerusalem; and that thereafter the general, and, in short, the eternal resurrection and
judgment of all men would likewise take place. Just as our Lord also said, 'They shall
neither marry nor be given in marriage, but shall be equal to the angels, the children
of the God of the resurrection.'"[ THE SECOND APOLOGY OF JUSTIN FOR THE CHRISTIANS
ADDRESSED TO THE ROMAN SENATE, Chap 81]
Early Church Father Irenaeus (circa 130-202 AD):
"For in as many days as this world was made, in so many thousand years shall it be
concluded. And for this reason the Scripture says: Thus the heaven and the earth were
finished, and all their adornment. And God brought to a conclusion upon the sixth day
the works that He had made; and God rested upon the seventh day from all His works.'
This is an account of the things formerly created, as also it is a prophecy of what is
to come. For the day of the Lord is as a thousand years; and in six days created things
were completed: it is evident, therefore, that they will come to an end at the sixth
thousand year. Irenaeus against Hersies, Book 5, Chap 28, sec 3
"But when this Antichrist shall have devastated all things in this world, he will reign
for three years and six months, and sit in the temple at Jerusalem; and then the Lord
will come from heaven in the clouds, in the glory of the Father, sending this man and
those who follow him into the lake of fire; but bringing in for the righteous the times
of the kingdom, that is, the rest, the hallowed seventh day; and restoring to Abraham
the promised inheritance, in which kingdom the Lord declared, that 'many coming from the
east and from the west should sit down with Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.'Irenaeus against
Hersies, Book 5, Chap 30, sec 4
"The predicted blessing, therefore, belongs unquestionably to the times of the kingdom,
when the righteous shall bear rule upon their rising from the dead." Irenaeus against
Hersies, Book 5, Chap 33, sec 3
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In scripture the rapture is described in 1Thess 4:17 Then we which are alive
and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the
Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. It is our being
caught up to meet the Lord. As He promised I go to prepare a place for you
and I will come again, and receive you unto myself (John 14:2-3).
The word rapture comes from the Latin Vulgate version of the Bible deinde
nos qui vivimus qui relinquimur simul rapiemur ***** illis in nubibus obviam
Domino in aera et sic semper ***** Domino erimus. The we...shall be caught up
in English is rapiemur in Latin. Rapiemur is the future passive of the Latin
verb for to seize away [rapio, -ere, rapui, raptum], and the English word
rapture comes from the future participle of rapio [rapturus, -a, -um], just
as the English word capture comes from the Latin word capio.
Our Lord was referring to the rapture in Matt 24:30-31 when He said, And
then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all
the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in
the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. And he shall send his
angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his
elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. However, the
rapture is only part of this thorough gathering of all His elect. In
addition to the Christians who will be gathered into His rest (Heb 4:9), and
go to the place prepared (John 14:2-3), the heavenly city (Heb 11:16). The
enemy-of-the-gospel elect are also gathered: As concerning the gospel, they
are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved
for the fathers' sakes (Rom 11:28). They enter His wrath instead of His
rest: Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest
(Ps 95:11). As we go to the place prepared for us, they are returned to
Israel: Ezek 37:12 Behold, O my people, I will open your graves, and cause
you to come up out of your graves, and bring you into the land of Israel,
where they are saved after He has arrived And I will pour upon the house of
David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of
supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they
shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for his only son, and shall be in
bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for his firstborn (Zech
12:10) and For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their
sins (Rom 11:27). The gathering of his elect from the four winds, from one
end of heaven to the other is all of His elect.
In Matt 24:37 the Lord says, But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the
coming of the Son of man be, and in Gen 7:16-17 it is written And they that
went in, went in male and female of all flesh, as God had commanded him: and
the LORD shut him in. And the flood was forty days upon the earth; and the
waters increased, and bare up the ark, and it was lift up above the earth.
The door was shut and the flood was on the earth. The door to His rest is
shut when the last gentile enters-in: For I would not, brethren, that ye
should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own
conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of
the Gentiles be come in" (Rom 11:25)], as in the days of Noah, His wrath
will rain down upon the earth. We are also told that the rapture follows the
revealing of the man on sin: Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of
our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him, that ye be
not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor
by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand. Let no man
deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a
falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is
worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself
that he is God (2 Thess 2:1-4). These verses not only tell us that His
coming and our being gathered to Him will follow the revealing of the
antichrist, but also tell us how he will be revealed. He will sit in the
temple shewing himself to be God by sitting in God's place: the mercy seat
between the cherubim on the ark of the covenant.
The time of the rapture is at the time when the two witnesses ascend into
heaven in Rev 11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto
them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their
enemies beheld them. The two witnesses are part of all His elect which are
gathered from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other (Matt
24:31). They are changed, putting on immortality and ascending into heaven,
at the same time, the same twinkling of an eye, that we all are changed at
the last trump in Rev 11 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all
sleep, but we shall all be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye,
at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised
incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on
incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality
(1Cor 15:51-53). The church enters His rest and the rest of mankind enters
His wrath.
The rest into which the church enters but His-enemy-of-the-gospel elect do
not enter is His day of rest Again, he limiteth a certain day, saying in
David, To day, after so long a time; as it is said, To day if ye will hear
his voice, harden not your hearts (Heb 4:7). It is the same day as the day
of the Lord But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in
the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements
shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein
shall be burned up (2Pet 3:10). It begins with His coming like a thief in
the night and ends at the end of His 1000 year reign when there is a new
heaven and a new earth And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first
heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea" (Rev
21:1) and His bride, the church, descends in the place He prepared for her
And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of
heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband (Rev 21:2).
It is written in 2 Pet 3:8 But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing,
that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as
one day, and the day of His rest, the day of the Lord, is a 1000 year day,
which is the third day of the prophecy in Hosea 6:2 to Jews who will live in
His millennial reign After two days will he revive us: in the third day he
will raise us up, and we shall live in his sight.
What is revealed by the 1000 year days in scripture is a week of 1000 year
days with the last day of the week being the day of the Lord, the day of His
rest. The three days of Hosea 6:2, the three at the end of the week, are
what scripture calls the last days, and the first day is the day in which
Adam ate of the forbidden fruit and died at the age of 930 But of the tree
of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day
that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die (Gen 2:17).
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
His,
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon ota akoueto Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child,
he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
And, worse still, they had a reason, and one which
you will find very embarrassing. Their Master had
told them so. He shared, and indeed created, their
delusion. He said in so many words, 'This generation
shall not pass till all these things be done'. And he
was wrong. He clearly knew no more about the
end of the world than anyone else.
It is certainly the most embarrassing verse in the Bible.
Yet how teasing, also, that within fourteen words of it
should come the statement, 'But of that day and that hour
knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven,
neither the Son, but the Father'. The one exhibition
of error and the one confession of ignorance grow
side by side.
To this, the skeptic may reply, If Jesus incorrectly
predicted His return within the contemporaneous
generation, but actually did not know that He was
going to return within that time frame, then why
did He so confidently assert that all of the words
He had just spoken would come to pass in
Matthew 24:35? He said, 'Heaven and earth shall
pass away, but my words shall not pass away'.
--
To email me, just remove the underscores.
A liberal is someone who will give away everything
except his/her own possessions.
.
|
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| User: " ::: good news :::" |
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| Title: Re: C.S. Lewis on Matthew 24:34 |
20 Sep 2007 08:46:50 AM |
|
|
In news:pph4f31tjf151lmoe7slgh9d6q1f40k0ao@4ax.com,
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> typed:
Say what you like, we shall be told, the apocalyptic
beliefs of the first Christians have been proved to be
false. It is clear from the New Testament that they
all expected the Second Coming in their own lifetime.
Amen - and so do we.
::: vera :::
--
___________________________________________________
::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::::::
::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::::::
::::::: http://www.e-sword.net :::::::
::::::: http://alpha.org/default.asp :::::::
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: C.S. Lewis on Matthew 24:34 |
20 Sep 2007 11:02:14 AM |
|
|
On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:46:50 +0200, " ::: good news :::"
<veralein@lycos.com> wrote:
In news:pph4f31tjf151lmoe7slgh9d6q1f40k0ao@4ax.com,
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> typed:
Say what you like, we shall be told, the apocalyptic
beliefs of the first Christians have been proved to be
false. It is clear from the New Testament that they
all expected the Second Coming in their own lifetime.
Amen - and so do we.
So you admit that you believe that they were wrong.
So why do you trust your Bible?
--
To email me, just remove the underscores.
A liberal is someone who will give away everything
except his/her own possessions.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Fred A Stover" |
|
| Title: Re: C.S. Lewis on Matthew 24:34 |
22 Sep 2007 12:01:08 AM |
|
|
"Pastor Knave" < SATAN_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:fb65f3hpq9lvd5f3li0pc8snjvd4rviuoo@4ax.com...
On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:46:50 +0200, " ::: good news :::"
<veralein@lycos.com> wrote:
In news:pph4f31tjf151lmoe7slgh9d6q1f40k0ao@4ax.com,
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> typed:
Say what you like, we shall be told, the apocalyptic
beliefs of the first Christians have been proved to be
false. It is clear from the New Testament that they
all expected the Second Coming in their own lifetime.
Amen - and so do we.
So you admit that you believe that they were wrong.
No, Satan, like people today some are expecting him now, some know when to
expect him.
So why do you trust your Bible?
Because we know what it says. You don't.
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon ota akoueto Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
--
To email me, just remove the underscores.
A liberal is someone who will give away everything
except his/her own possessions.
.
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| User: "Mistylien" |
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| Title: Re: C.S. Lewis on Matthew 24:34 |
22 Sep 2007 01:54:26 AM |
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"Fred A Stover" <fredstover7@sbcglobal.net> wrote in message
news:ok1Ji.856$6p6.815@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
"Pastor Knave" < SATAN_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:fb65f3hpq9lvd5f3li0pc8snjvd4rviuoo@4ax.com...
On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:46:50 +0200, " ::: good news :::"
<veralein@lycos.com> wrote:
In news:pph4f31tjf151lmoe7slgh9d6q1f40k0ao@4ax.com,
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> typed:
Say what you like, we shall be told, the apocalyptic
beliefs of the first Christians have been proved to be
false. It is clear from the New Testament that they
all expected the Second Coming in their own lifetime.
Amen - and so do we.
So you admit that you believe that they were wrong.
No, Satan, like people today some are expecting him now, some know when to expect him.
His second coming (rapture) is a prophecy that has not beginning date
nor a fulfillment date attached to it so that tell us prophecy Theologians
It is an On going Prophecy and it started the very day He came up
out of the grave and started to chose His New Bride.
Luke 24
and
John 20.
M, + + +
So why do you trust your Bible?
Because we know what it says. You don't.
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon ota akoueto Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a little child,
he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
--
To email me, just remove the underscores.
A liberal is someone who will give away everything
except his/her own possessions.
.
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| User: " ::: good news :::" |
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| Title: Re: C.S. Lewis on Matthew 24:34 |
22 Sep 2007 08:04:53 AM |
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In news:ok1Ji.856$6p6.815@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net,
Fred A Stover <fredstover7@sbcglobal.net> typed:
"Pastor Knave" < SATAN_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:fb65f3hpq9lvd5f3li0pc8snjvd4rviuoo@4ax.com...
On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:46:50 +0200, " ::: good news :::"
<veralein@lycos.com> wrote:
In news:pph4f31tjf151lmoe7slgh9d6q1f40k0ao@4ax.com,
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> typed:
Say what you like, we shall be told, the apocalyptic
beliefs of the first Christians have been proved to be
false. It is clear from the New Testament that they
all expected the Second Coming in their own lifetime.
Amen - and so do we.
So you admit that you believe that they were wrong.
No, Satan, like people today some are expecting him now, some know
when to expect him.
So why do you trust your Bible?
Because we know what it says. You don't.
That is right.
Be blessed,
::: vera :::
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon ota akoueto Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God
as a little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
--
To email me, just remove the underscores.
A liberal is someone who will give away everything
except his/her own possessions.
.
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| User: " ::: good news :::" |
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| Title: Re: C.S. Lewis on Matthew 24:34 |
21 Sep 2007 09:14:11 AM |
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In news:fb65f3hpq9lvd5f3li0pc8snjvd4rviuoo@4ax.com,
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> typed:
On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:46:50 +0200, " ::: good news :::"
<veralein@lycos.com> wrote:
In news:pph4f31tjf151lmoe7slgh9d6q1f40k0ao@4ax.com,
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> typed:
Say what you like, we shall be told, the apocalyptic
beliefs of the first Christians have been proved to be
false. It is clear from the New Testament that they
all expected the Second Coming in their own lifetime.
Amen - and so do we.
So you admit that you believe that they were wrong.
So why do you trust your Bible?
Because the Bible is RIGHT - *THEY* were wrong.
::: vera :::
--
___________________________________________________
::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::::::
::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::::::
::::::: http://www.e-sword.net :::::::
::::::: http://alpha.org/default.asp :::::::
.
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| User: "Mark T moi@Kevin0700007" |
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| Title: Re: C.S. Lewis on Matthew 24:34 |
21 Sep 2007 06:32:36 PM |
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" ::: good news :::" <veralein@lycos.com> wrote:
the Bible is RIGHT
DESCRIPTION OF JESUS
Jesus has white hair, eyes of fire, feet of brass, and has a sword sticking
out of his mouth. 1:13-16
John repeats his description of Jesus, saying he has eyes of fire and
feet of brass. 2:18
With eyes aflame, many crowns on his head, clothes dripping with blood, a
sword sticking out of his mouth, and a secret name, Jesus leads the faithful
into holy war. 19:12-15
This verse refers to Jesus as the "bright and morning star", as is Lucifer
in Is.14:12. So is Jesus Lucifer? 22:16
--
"All things are probable. Try to believe." - Mark 17:1 (MTV)
"Really! Try to believe even if it's bloody stupid and irrational." - Mark
17:2 (MTV)
"Why? Because I said so, that's why! Don't ask questions. Just
believe." - Mark 17:3 (MTV)
--
My Blog - MARK T - my thoughts on Christianity & links
http://www.blognow.com.au/strooth/
FUNDY FUNHOUSE -
http://fundamentalistfunhouse.blogspot.com/
- a resource on the current Fundamentalist Dark Age and Christian
fundamentalism.
My Soundclick Page - download my original songs in mp3 format
http://www.soundclick.com/marktindall
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: C.S. Lewis on Matthew 24:34 |
21 Sep 2007 09:27:08 AM |
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On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 16:14:11 +0200, " ::: good news :::"
<veralein@lycos.com> wrote:
In news:fb65f3hpq9lvd5f3li0pc8snjvd4rviuoo@4ax.com,
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> typed:
On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:46:50 +0200, " ::: good news :::"
<veralein@lycos.com> wrote:
In news:pph4f31tjf151lmoe7slgh9d6q1f40k0ao@4ax.com,
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> typed:
Say what you like, we shall be told, the apocalyptic
beliefs of the first Christians have been proved to be
false. It is clear from the New Testament that they
all expected the Second Coming in their own lifetime.
Amen - and so do we.
So you admit that you believe that they were wrong.
So why do you trust your Bible?
Because the Bible is RIGHT - *THEY* were wrong.
I don't think you get it. *THEY* WROTE THE BIBLE!
So if they were wrong, then the Bible is wrong!
--
To email me, just remove the underscores.
A liberal is someone who will give away everything
except his/her own possessions.
.
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| User: "Fred A Stover" |
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| Title: Re: C.S. Lewis on Matthew 24:34 |
22 Sep 2007 12:06:09 AM |
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"Pastor Knave" < SATAN_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:b4l7f396iu0lrlkr6e64pqe9oobjcgdvb7@4ax.com...
On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 16:14:11 +0200, " ::: good news :::"
<veralein@lycos.com> wrote:
In news:fb65f3hpq9lvd5f3li0pc8snjvd4rviuoo@4ax.com,
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> typed:
On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:46:50 +0200, " ::: good news :::"
<veralein@lycos.com> wrote:
In news:pph4f31tjf151lmoe7slgh9d6q1f40k0ao@4ax.com,
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> typed:
Say what you like, we shall be told, the apocalyptic
beliefs of the first Christians have been proved to be
false. It is clear from the New Testament that they
all expected the Second Coming in their own lifetime.
Amen - and so do we.
So you admit that you believe that they were wrong.
So why do you trust your Bible?
Because the Bible is RIGHT - *THEY* were wrong.
I don't think you get it. *THEY* WROTE THE BIBLE!
So if they were wrong, then the Bible is wrong!
You don't get it. The ones that wrote the Bible knew are the ones who tell
us when He will be coming.
You don't see it, Satan, because scripture is spiritually discerned:
1 Cor. 2:14
But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for
they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are
spiritually discerned.
His,
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon ota akoueto Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
.
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| User: " ::: good news :::" |
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| Title: Re: C.S. Lewis on Matthew 24:34 |
21 Sep 2007 12:08:34 PM |
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In news:b4l7f396iu0lrlkr6e64pqe9oobjcgdvb7@4ax.com,
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> typed:
On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 16:14:11 +0200, " ::: good news :::"
<veralein@lycos.com> wrote:
In news:fb65f3hpq9lvd5f3li0pc8snjvd4rviuoo@4ax.com,
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> typed:
On Thu, 20 Sep 2007 15:46:50 +0200, " ::: good news :::"
<veralein@lycos.com> wrote:
In news:pph4f31tjf151lmoe7slgh9d6q1f40k0ao@4ax.com,
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> typed:
Say what you like, we shall be told, the apocalyptic
beliefs of the first Christians have been proved to be
false. It is clear from the New Testament that they
all expected the Second Coming in their own lifetime.
Amen - and so do we.
So you admit that you believe that they were wrong.
So why do you trust your Bible?
Because the Bible is RIGHT - *THEY* were wrong.
I don't think you get it. *THEY* WROTE THE BIBLE!
Sorry, but I would say *HE* wrote the Bible.
So if they were wrong, then the Bible is wrong!
Sorry, but I would say *THEY* were wrong, or *WE* are wrong, but *HE*
was right.
Seriously, Dave, do you really believe the Lord would leave His Church
in error over 2000 years? If you believe that, your faith into *HIM*
might be rather weak. I *know* He is the Leader of His Church, and He
would not allow His people to be deceived like that. All was done in 33
AD, and the Second Coming of Christ is still in the future - praise the
Lord, for this is pour chance to surrender! Otherwise we would all be
lost...
Christians can have a part of the Kingdom of God here on this earth
already when they pray or meet others in Jesus' name, but this is still
the old earth, and the old heavens above us - there is no way around
that. Like Adam and Eve were in Paradise - with a *body* that was
created there in Paradise - we will be in Heaven - with a body, a
perfect body, not a body that would ever have to die and is a subject to
pain and suffering. Believe it, Dave, just believe it - or walk into
death as you are precisely on that way.
Death only came with the fall of Adam and Eve.
"...but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat
of it: for in the day that you eat of it you will surely die." Gen 2:17
But in His great mercy He kept them alive for a while yet but far away
from Him. And that is where we still are. But the Spirit of the
Christians is One with Him, and God does not hold our past against us
anymore. All we have to do is die away from this place earth here to be
with Him forever, and be resurrected one day like Jesus was resurrected
from the dead - and remember, His grave was empty.
::: vera :::
--
___________________________________________________
::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::::::
::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::::::
::::::: http://www.e-sword.net :::::::
::::::: http://alpha.org/default.asp :::::::
.
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| User: "Mistylien" |
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| Title: Re: C.S. Lewis on Matthew 24:34 |
22 Sep 2007 01:41:00 AM |
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" ::: good news :::" <veralein@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:5lic4jF8dft1U1@mid.individual.net...
In news:b4l7f396iu0lrlkr6e64pqe9oobjcgdvb7@4ax.com,
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> typed:
On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 16:14:11 +0200, " ::: good news :::"
<veralein@lycos.com> wrote:
Because the Bible is RIGHT - *THEY* were wrong.
I don't think you get it. *THEY* WROTE THE BIBLE!
Sorry, but I would say *HE* wrote the Bible.
So if they were wrong, then the Bible is wrong!
Sorry, but I would say *THEY* were wrong, or *WE* are wrong, but *HE* was right.
Seriously, Dave, do you really believe the Lord would leave His Church in error over
2000 years? If you believe that, your faith into *HIM* might be rather weak. I *know* He
is the Leader of His Church, and He would not allow His people to be deceived like that.
All was done in 33 AD, and the Second Coming of Christ is still in the future - praise
the Lord, for this is pour chance to surrender! Otherwise we would all be lost...
Christians can have a part of the Kingdom of God here on this earth already when they
pray or meet others in Jesus' name, but this is still the old earth, and the old heavens
above us - there is no way around that. Like Adam and Eve were in Paradise - with a
*body* that was created there in Paradise - we will be in Heaven - with a body, a
perfect body, not a body that would ever have to die and is a subject to pain and
suffering. Believe it, Dave, just believe it - or walk into death as you are precisely
on that way.
Death only came with the fall of Adam and Eve.
"...but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat of it: for in
the day that you eat of it you will surely die." Gen 2:17
But in His great mercy He kept them alive for a while yet but far away from Him. And
that is where we still are. But the Spirit of the Christians is One with Him, and God
does not hold our past against us anymore. All we have to do is die away from this place
earth here to be with Him forever, and be resurrected one day like Jesus was resurrected
from the dead - and remember, His grave was empty.
If I may make a sugestion;
The Bible is God breathed and God inspired!
God Uses Creation or creatures to deal with creation of creatures.
Sometimes though God will deal directly with His Creation.
M, + + +
::: vera :::
--
___________________________________________________
::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::::::
::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::::::
::::::: http://www.e-sword.net :::::::
::::::: http://alpha.org/default.asp :::::::
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: C.S. Lewis on Matthew 24:34 |
21 Sep 2007 12:29:05 PM |
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On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 19:08:34 +0200, " ::: good news :::"
<veralein@lycos.com> wrote:
So if they were wrong, then the Bible is wrong!
Sorry, but I would say *THEY* were wrong, or *WE* are wrong, but *HE*
was right.
See new thread.. VERA: YOU SAID THE NT WRITERS WERE WRONG!
--
To email me, just remove the underscores.
A liberal is someone who will give away everything
except his/her own possessions.
.
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| User: "Fred A Stover" |
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| Title: Re: C.S. Lewis on Matthew 24:34 |
22 Sep 2007 12:06:10 AM |
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"Pastor Knave" < SATAN_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7qv7f3dda5ualb3a3hqaf8kt2qo3q5tfe0@4ax.com...
On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 19:08:34 +0200, " ::: good news :::"
<veralein@lycos.com> wrote:
So if they were wrong, then the Bible is wrong!
Sorry, but I would say *THEY* were wrong, or *WE* are wrong, but *HE*
was right.
See new thread.. VERA: YOU SAID THE NT WRITERS WERE WRONG!
No, Satan, You said that! Not her.
His,
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon ota akoueto Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
--
To email me, just remove the underscores.
A liberal is someone who will give away everything
except his/her own possessions.
.
|
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| User: " ::: good news :::" |
|
| Title: Re: C.S. Lewis on Matthew 24:34 |
21 Sep 2007 12:45:36 PM |
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In news:7qv7f3dda5ualb3a3hqaf8kt2qo3q5tfe0@4ax.com,
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> typed:
On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 19:08:34 +0200, " ::: good news :::"
<veralein@lycos.com> wrote:
So if they were wrong, then the Bible is wrong!
Sorry, but I would say *THEY* were wrong, or *WE* are wrong, but *HE*
was right.
See new thread.. VERA: YOU SAID THE NT WRITERS WERE WRONG!
N O.
--
To email me, just remove the underscores.
A liberal is someone who will give away everything
except his/her own possessions.
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: WERE THE WRITERS OF THE NT WRONG? |
21 Dec 2007 10:12:16 AM |
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On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 19:08:34 +0200, " ::: good news :::"
<veralein@lycos.com> wrote:
So you admit that you believe that they
were wrong. Why do you trust your Bible?
Because the Bible is RIGHT *THEY* were wrong.
I don't think you get it. *THEY* WROTE THE BIBLE!
Sorry, but I would say *HE* wrote the Bible.
Word games won't make the problem go away.
See below.
So if they were wrong, then the Bible is wrong!
Sorry, but I would say *THEY* were wrong,
or *WE* are wrong, but *HE* was right.
In other words, you are trying to claim that the writers
of the New Testament were wrong, when they wrote
that it would happen within their generation, but that
God was right and that God wrote the NT. I'm sorry,
that doesn't cut it, dear!
Why not? Simple! :)
Since what was written, was the words we have in the NT
and since you said that the writers of the NT were wrong,
that makes God wrong, since the words that they wrote,
are what God inspired them to write, by your own statement.
In other words, you can't have it both ways, Vera!
Knowing that there is no escape from this, since the facts
presented are by your own statements, do you now wish
to try to escape the NT and claim that they didn't write
by the inspiration of God?
If so, we come back to the same question...
"Why do you trust your Bible?".
--
"What else is the whole like of mortals, but a sort of
comedy, in which the various actors, disguised by various
costumes and masks, walk on and plays each one his part,
until the manager waves them off the stage " - Erasmus
.
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: WERE THE WRITERS OF THE NT WRONG? |
21 Dec 2007 02:15:31 PM |
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In a manner of speaking, yes.
They, like most of the prophets before them, thought that their prophecies
were about THEIR generations, and it seemed like they were. Little did they
know...
Ike
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: WERE THE WRITERS OF THE NT WRONG? |
28 Dec 2007 06:05:55 PM |
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On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 19:08:34 +0200, " ::: good news :::"
<veralein@lycos.com> wrote:
So you admit that you believe that they
were wrong. Why do you trust your Bible?
Because the Bible is RIGHT *THEY* were wrong.
I don't think you get it. *THEY* WROTE THE BIBLE!
Sorry, but I would say *HE* wrote the Bible.
Word games won't make the problem go away.
See below.
So if they were wrong, then the Bible is wrong!
Sorry, but I would say *THEY* were wrong,
or *WE* are wrong, but *HE* was right.
In other words, you are trying to claim that the writers
of the New Testament were wrong, when they wrote
that it would happen within their generation, but that
God was right and that God wrote the NT. I'm sorry,
that doesn't cut it, dear!
Why not? Simple! :)
Since what was written, was the words we have in the NT
and since you said that the writers of the NT were wrong,
that makes God wrong, since the words that they wrote,
are what God inspired them to write, by your own statement.
In other words, you can't have it both ways, Vera!
Knowing that there is no escape from this, since the facts
presented are by your own statements, do you now wish
to try to escape the NT and claim that they didn't write
by the inspiration of God?
If so, we come back to the same question...
"Why do you trust your Bible?".
--
If your bible is falling apart, chances are your life
is staying together.
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: WERE THE WRITERS OF THE NT WRONG? |
28 Dec 2007 06:06:20 PM |
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On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 19:08:34 +0200, " ::: good news :::"
<veralein@lycos.com> wrote:
So you admit that you believe that they
were wrong. Why do you trust your Bible?
Because the Bible is RIGHT *THEY* were wrong.
I don't think you get it. *THEY* WROTE THE BIBLE!
Sorry, but I would say *HE* wrote the Bible.
Word games won't make the problem go away.
See below.
So if they were wrong, then the Bible is wrong!
Sorry, but I would say *THEY* were wrong,
or *WE* are wrong, but *HE* was right.
In other words, you are trying to claim that the writers
of the New Testament were wrong, when they wrote
that it would happen within their generation, but that
God was right and that God wrote the NT. I'm sorry,
that doesn't cut it, dear!
Why not? Simple! :)
Since what was written, was the words we have in the NT
and since you said that the writers of the NT were wrong,
that makes God wrong, since the words that they wrote,
are what God inspired them to write, by your own statement.
In other words, you can't have it both ways, Vera!
Knowing that there is no escape from this, since the facts
presented are by your own statements, do you now wish
to try to escape the NT and claim that they didn't write
by the inspiration of God?
If so, we come back to the same question...
"Why do you trust your Bible?".
--
If your bible is falling apart, chances are your life
is staying together.
.
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| User: "Christopher Morris" |
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| Title: Re: WERE THE WRITERS OF THE NT WRONG? |
29 Dec 2007 09:02:39 AM |
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"Pastor Dave" <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:6r3bn39ubh6rk1td5uhr1nnhksj1vc4me1@4ax.com...
On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 19:08:34 +0200, " ::: good news :::"
<veralein@lycos.com> wrote:
So you admit that you believe that they
were wrong. Why do you trust your Bible?
Because the Bible is RIGHT *THEY* were wrong.
I don't think you get it. *THEY* WROTE THE BIBLE!
Sorry, but I would say *HE* wrote the Bible.
Word games won't make the problem go away.
See below.
So if they were wrong, then the Bible is wrong!
Sorry, but I would say *THEY* were wrong,
or *WE* are wrong, but *HE* was right.
In other words, you are trying to claim that the writers
of the New Testament were wrong, when they wrote
that it would happen within their generation, but that
God was right and that God wrote the NT. I'm sorry,
that doesn't cut it, dear!
Why not? Simple! :)
Since what was written, was the words we have in the NT
and since you said that the writers of the NT were wrong,
that makes God wrong, since the words that they wrote,
are what God inspired them to write, by your own statement.
In other words, you can't have it both ways, Vera!
Knowing that there is no escape from this, since the facts
presented are by your own statements, do you now wish
to try to escape the NT and claim that they didn't write
by the inspiration of God?
If so, we come back to the same question...
"Why do you trust your Bible?".
--
If your bible is falling apart, chances are your life
is staying together.
Dave the Bible was written by men many times removed from the situations
that they were indeed writting about and there is nothing to suggest they
thought that Jesus would not return within their own lifetimes. Of course
none of this matters because the message of the Bible is valid for those who
follow the faith and has been for over two thousand years. The fact though
is that the Bible need not be literally true for the moral lessons and the
ideals to be valid for the followers of the faith for they are Universal
concepts found in all faiths and valid to all who have the intellect to
understand them. The rest is the filler of Man and no more valid than the
Myth of any other faith in the world. Your Fables are no more valid than any
other all. All faiths of the world have the same validity and the same
Univeral Truths, thus all Faiths are Equal and Valid.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: WERE THE WRITERS OF THE NT WRONG? |
24 Jan 2008 03:28:22 AM |
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On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 19:08:34 +0200, " ::: good news :::"
<veralein@lycos.com> wrote:
So you admit that you believe that they
were wrong. Why do you trust your Bible?
Because the Bible is RIGHT *THEY* were wrong.
I don't think you get it. *THEY* WROTE THE BIBLE!
Sorry, but I would say *HE* wrote the Bible.
Word games won't make the problem go away.
See below.
So if they were wrong, then the Bible is wrong!
Sorry, but I would say *THEY* were wrong,
or *WE* are wrong, but *HE* was right.
In other words, you are trying to claim that the writers
of the New Testament were wrong, when they wrote
that it would happen within their generation, but that
God was right and that God wrote the NT. I'm sorry,
that doesn't cut it, dear!
Why not? Simple! :)
Since what was written, was the words we have in the NT
and since you said that the writers of the NT were wrong,
that makes God wrong, since the words that they wrote,
are what God inspired them to write, by your own statement.
In other words, you can't have it both ways, Vera!
Knowing that there is no escape from this, since the facts
presented are by your own statements, do you now wish
to try to escape the NT and claim that they didn't write
by the inspiration of God?
If so, we come back to the same question...
"Why do you trust your Bible?".
--
The church does not determine what Scripture teaches;
Scripture determines what the church teaches.
If a tradition or experience is contrary to the
teachings of Scripture, it is not of the Lord.
Reason is a significant authority. But it too,
must be placed under the dominion of Scripture.
In other words, we cannot seek Biblical truths,
while questioning the authority of the Bible.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: VERA: YOU SAID THE NT WRITERS WERE WRONG! |
21 Sep 2007 12:28:34 PM |
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On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 19:08:34 +0200, " ::: good news :::"
<veralein@lycos.com> wrote:
So you admit that you believe that they
were wrong. Why do you trust your Bible?
Because the Bible is RIGHT *THEY* were wrong.
I don't think you get it. *THEY* WROTE THE BIBLE!
Sorry, but I would say *HE* wrote the Bible.
Word games won't make the problem go away.
See below.
So if they were wrong, then the Bible is wrong!
Sorry, but I would say *THEY* were wrong,
or *WE* are wrong, but *HE* was right.
In other words, you are trying to claim that the writers
of the New Testament were wrong, when they wrote
that it would happen within their generation, but that
God was right and that God wrote the NT. I'm sorry,
that doesn't cut it, dear!
Why not? Simple! :)
Since what was written, was the words we have in the NT
and since you said that the writers of the NT were wrong,
that makes God wrong, since the words that they wrote,
are what God inspired them to write, by your own statement.
In other words, you can't have it both ways, Vera!
Knowing that there is no escape from this, since the facts
presented are by your own statements, do you now wish
to try to escape the NT and claim that they didn't write
by the inspiration of God?
If so, we come back to the same question...
"Why do you trust your Bible?".
--
To email me, just remove the underscores.
A liberal is someone who will give away everything
except his/her own possessions.
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| User: " ::: good news :::" |
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| Title: DAVE: YOU SAID THE NT WRITERS WERE WRONG! |
21 Sep 2007 12:43:30 PM |
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In news:t7v7f31d9ktdhrtsluv939rfo29sqo92i4@4ax.com,
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> typed:
[big snip]
I am prepared to discuss this in the thread where I wrote it - not here.
I will not play your games of making points by separating things from
their context. It is bad enough that you do this with Scripture all the
time. But while I cannot change that, I can refuse to play your tactical
games with me.
::: vera :::
--
___________________________________________________
::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::::::
::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::::::
::::::: http://www.e-sword.net :::::::
::::::: http://alpha.org/default.asp :::::::
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: DAVE: YOU SAID THE NT WRITERS WERE WRONG! |
22 Sep 2007 03:56:19 AM |
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On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 19:43:30 +0200, " ::: good news :::"
<veralein@lycos.com> wrote:
In news:t7v7f31d9ktdhrtsluv939rfo29sqo92i4@4ax.com,
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> typed:
[big snip]
I am prepared to discuss this in the thread where I wrote it - not here.
You keep naming threads the opposite of what happened.
I will not play your games of making points by separating things from
their context.
You're lying, Vera. No context was removed. You tried
to add more subjects in.
--
To email me, just remove the underscores.
A liberal is someone who will give away everything
except his/her own possessions.
.
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| User: " ::: good news :::" |
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| Title: Re: DAVE: YOU SAID THE NT WRITERS WERE WRONG! |
22 Sep 2007 09:24:39 AM |
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In news:44m9f359sad1v5l0cga811kp67h00l6t8g@4ax.com,
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> typed:
On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 19:43:30 +0200, " ::: good news :::"
<veralein@lycos.com> wrote:
In news:t7v7f31d9ktdhrtsluv939rfo29sqo92i4@4ax.com,
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> typed:
[big snip]
I am prepared to discuss this in the thread where I wrote it - not
here.
You keep naming threads the opposite of what happened.
I will not play your games of making points by separating things from
their context.
You're lying, Vera. No context was removed. You tried
to add more subjects in.
Starting a new thread is context removing - or why would someone start a
new thread in the middle of a debate? To cover what was written there.
And then you go and make it personal by adding the name in the subject
line, and pretend things that have never been said. It is always the
same, and you have been doing this for years now. It can easily be
proved.
You are one of the worst liars I have ever seen in my life so far, and
it is not that you only lie about the Bible, but about other people,
too, calling them names and discrediting them.
Know that whenever you start a new thread from an ongoing debate in the
future and make it a personal matter, I will make the topic of that YOU
and will expose your LIES.
I am not your judge, either, but know this - it is a part of the Book
from which you have taken your false Gospel:
"You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor." (Exodus
20:16 WEB)
"Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the
murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices
falsehood." (Revelation 22:15 WEB)
--
___________________________________________________
::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de :::::::
::::::: http://www.acc-growing-deeper.de/Israel.htm :::::::
::::::: http://www.e-sword.net :::::::
::::::: http://alpha.org/default.asp :::::::
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: DAVE: YOU SAID THE NT WRITERS WERE WRONG! |
22 Sep 2007 07:42:02 PM |
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On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 16:24:39 +0200, " ::: good news :::"
<veralein@lycos.com> wrote:
"Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the
murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices
falsehood." (Revelation 22:15 WEB)
And this is after the new heaven and earth,
which you claim is physically literal and only
believers live on! And yet, here are people
committing sexual immorality and other
forms of immorality outside the gates of
the New Jerusalem, which comes down
onto this new Earth, even though the sinners
are all supposed to be gone and thrown into
the lake of fire!
So tell us Vera, where did they come from?
If your doctrine is true, that would mean that
the only place they could have come from,
is believers who are on this new earth and have
their "super sci-fi, live forever human bodies"!
So now you have believers who were living
for eternity with God on this new planet Earth,
committing immoral acts, sorcery, etc!!
So tell us Vera... since according to you this
"new planet earth" is going to end up being
just like it is now again, why do you look
forward to living on it forever???
Oh, wait, never mind! That's right! I've already
asked you this a number of times and your response
is always to ignore the question and maybe paste in
the same passages, as if that someone answers the
question! <chuckle>
It isn't the passages that I have a problem with.
You are the one who has the problem with them,
since it is your doctrinal position that tortures
Scripture and makes it contradict itself. And even
after your shown this, you still act to dumb to
realize it and try to insist you're right! <chuckle>
--
To email me, just remove the underscores.
A liberal is someone who will give away everything
except his/her own possessions.
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| User: " ::: good news :::" |
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| Title: Re: DAVE: YOU SAID THE NT WRITERS WERE WRONG! |
22 Sep 2007 07:46:36 PM |
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"You shall not give false testimony against your neighbor." (Exodus
20:16 WEB)
"And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth,
neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which
are written in the Lamb's book of life." (Revelation 21:27 KJV)
"Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the
murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices
falsehood." (Revelation 22:15 WEB)
In news:d6dbf3h35j6fh41aqtase9qorvebn4jfr7@4ax.com,
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> typed:
On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 16:24:39 +0200, " ::: good news :::"
<veralein@lycos.com> wrote:
"Outside are the dogs, the sorcerers, the sexually immoral, the
murderers, the idolaters, and everyone who loves and practices
falsehood." (Revelation 22:15 WEB)
And this is after the new heaven and earth,
which you claim is physically literal and only
believers live on! And yet, here are people
committing sexual immorality and other
forms of immorality outside the gates of
the New Jerusalem, which comes down
onto this new Earth, even though the sinners
are all supposed to be gone and thrown into
the lake of fire!
So tell us Vera, where did they come from?
If your doctrine is true, that would mean that
the only place they could have come from,
is believers who are on this new earth and have
their "super sci-fi, live forever human bodies"!
So now you have believers who were living
for eternity with God on this new planet Earth,
committing immoral acts, sorcery, etc!!
So tell us Vera... since according to you this
"new planet earth" is going to end up being
just like it is now again, why do you look
forward to living on it forever???
Oh, wait, never mind! That's right! I've already
asked you this a number of times and your response
is always to ignore the question and maybe paste in
the same passages, as if that someone answers the
question! <chuckle>
It isn't the passages that I have a problem with.
You are the one who has the problem with them,
since it is your doctrinal position that tortures
Scripture and makes it contradict itself. And even
after your shown this, you still act to dumb to
realize it and try to insist you're right! <chuckle>
--
To email me, just remove the underscores.
A liberal is someone who will give away everything
except his/her own possessions.
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: DAVE: YOU SAID THE NT WRITERS WERE WRONG! |
22 Sep 2007 07:31:58 PM |
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On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 16:24:39 +0200, " ::: good news :::"
<veralein@lycos.com> wrote:
In news:44m9f359sad1v5l0cga811kp67h00l6t8g@4ax.com,
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> typed:
On Fri, 21 Sep 2007 19:43:30 +0200, " ::: good news :::"
<veralein@lycos.com> wrote:
In news:t7v7f31d9ktdhrtsluv939rfo29sqo92i4@4ax.com,
Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> typed:
[big snip]
I am prepared to discuss this in the thread where I wrote it - not
here.
You keep naming threads the opposite of what happened.
I will not play your games of making points by separating things from
their context.
You're lying, Vera. No context was removed. You tried
to add more subjects in.
Starting a new thread is context removing
No stupid, it isn't.
- or why would someone start a
new thread in the middle of a debate?
It wasn't in the middle of a debate, *****.
To cover what was written there.
No stupid, to make the subject line match the subject
of the debate. Some of us are not as rude as you
about this stuff and we don't hijack threads into
other subjects, not related to the subject line and
instead, start a new thread and move the text related
to the debate that is now occurring and make the
subject line match.
The truth is, you're upset because once again,
I proved what a deceiver you are!
You stated that the writers of the NT were wrong, Vera!
No lie you tell is going to change that!
--
To email me, just remove the underscores.
A liberal is someone who will give away everything
except his/her own possessions.
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: DAVE: YOU SAID THE NT WRITERS WERE WRONG! |
22 Sep 2007 07:35:23 PM |
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On Sat, 22 Sep 2007 16:24:39 +0200, " ::: good news :::"
<veralein@lycos.com> wrote:
I am prepared to discuss this in the thread where I wrote it
- not here.
You keep naming threads the opposite of what happened.
I will not play your games of making points by separating
things from their context.
You're lying, Vera. No context was removed. You tried
to add more subjects in.
Starting a new thread is context removing
Hey, stupid, YOU started THIS thread with text
from another thread! So you just convicted
yourself, *****!
- or why would someone start a
new thread in the middle of a debate?
To cover what was written there.
See above, *****!
--
To email me, just remove the underscores.
A liberal is someone who will give away everything
except his/her own possessions.
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