| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Steve Dufour" |
| Date: |
16 Feb 2004 12:48:13 AM |
| Object: |
"Da Vinci Code" under attack |
Deconstructing 'Da Vinci'
By Julia Duin
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
"The Da Vinci Code," the best-selling novel that asserts as fact
that Jesus Christ had a daughter as well as a wife, has provoked
fierce opposition from Protestants and Catholics alike.
From Dallas Theological Seminary, whose faculty and students have
staged seminars debunking the novel, to "Christian History" magazine
in Carol Stream, Ill., which established a Da Vinci section on its Web
site (www.christianitytoday.com/history), Christians have denounced
the fabrications.
"What caused the stir, at least in part, was the author's claim
that the backdrop to his fictitious story is based on the truth," says
professor Darrell Bock of the Dallas seminary, who calls the book's
claims "ludicrous."
"Dan Brown's book isn't an innocent book," he said. "There is
something else going on here. At its very core is an attempt to
reshape our culture and Christian beliefs."
Mr. Bock's counterpunch book, "Breaking the Da Vinci Code," is due
out in April.
A thriller purporting to combine art, cryptology and religion,
"The Da Vinci Code" has sold 6.1 million copies to date and has topped
the New York Times best-seller list for 45 weeks. A movie by Columbia
Pictures is in the works.
America's religious elite ignored the book for months after it was
released in March. Then it became clear that many Americans,
particularly the unchurched, have taken the book as gospel according
to Dan Brown.
He writes that the Emperor Constantine originated the New
Testament during the fourth-century Council of Nicea, a large
gathering of Christian leaders that rewrote Jesus into a divine
figure, writing that the early church had venerated him merely as a
mortal prophet.
Other "facts" recited by Mr. Brown include assertions that
pre-Babylonian Judaism included temple prostitutes, that sex is a
prime way to God that has been squelched mainly by the Roman Catholic
Church for 2,000 years, that Gothic cathedrals are modeled after the
female body, and that Noah was an albino.
Not everyone is alarmed. David Klinghoffer, writing Dec. 8 for the
National Review, said the fact that Christians regard the novel as a
threat to their faith indicates that readers are taking the book far
too seriously.
"This also suggests that the problems in Catholic religious
education are every bit as severe as Catholic conservatives have been
alleging for some time now," he wrote. "If the professional educators
were doing their job, any believing Catholic past elementary-school
age would know that Brown's book is a total falsehood."
Leonardo Da Vinci is cited as the author of the "codes" because he
purportedly placed such clues in his paintings. One of them, according
to the novel, is that the person on Jesus' right in Da Vinci's
painting of "The Last Supper" is not the Apostle John but Mary
Magdalene. The Catholic Church, he writes, hid the "fact" that Jesus
and Mary were husband and wife and that she fled to France after the
Crucifixion, bearing him a daughter whose descendants are alive today.
Christian clerics were alarmed when a New York Daily News book
reviewer called the book's scholarship "impeccable" and the book
rocketed to the top of the best-seller charts.
"[The author] wins your trust with fascinating facts that are
true, then misleads you with insights that are not," says the Rev. Tim
Floyd, pastor of Providence Baptist Church in McLean whose Wednesday
night lecture series on the book typically draws 75 to 80 persons.
"The book easily deceives readers by cleverly mixing truths,
half-truths and complete falsehoods. Oliver Stone did the same thing
with the Kennedy assassination in his notorious [1991] movie 'JFK,'
which most people accepted as totally factual."
What spurred Mr. Floyd — and many other Christians — to action was
a Nov. 3 ABC special on whether Jesus had a wife. "I knew [such a
claim] was spurious, but people were talking about it, and I realized
I had to do something."
When the Rev. George Evans, pastor of Lutheran Church of the
Redeemer in McLean, scheduled a Da Vinci lecture for Jan. 14, "I
thought we'd get six to 10 people," he said. "We got 113 people, and
that was on a bad night, with rainy, freezing weather."
Mr. Evans was asked by a parishioner whether the word "companion"
in the gnostic Gospel of Philip meant "wife" in the Syriac language in
which the second-century manuscript was written.
"It could be used to mean 'companion,' 'friend' or maybe 'wife,'
but that stands against a flood of testimony of it being a different
relationship," he said. "The Gospels have her calling him 'rabbi,'
'lord' and 'teacher,' words you would not be saying to your husband
and lover."
Crisis magazine, a Catholic publication, took a swing at Mr.
Brown's book in its September issue.
Such debunkings might seem "like a pile driver applied to a gnat,"
author Sandra Miesel says, but "the blows are necessary to demonstrate
the utter falseness of Brown's material. His willful distortions of
documented history are more than matched by his outlandish claims
about controversial subjects. But to a postmodernist, one construct of
reality is as good as any other."
For the author, she says, "to state that the [Catholic] Church
burned five million women as witches shows a willful — and malicious —
ignorance of the historical record. The latest figures for deaths
during the European witch craze are between 30,000 to 50,000 victims."
.
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| User: "ZenIsWhen" |
|
| Title: Re: "Da Vinci Code" under attack |
16 Feb 2004 01:40:08 AM |
|
|
"Steve Dufour" <stevejdufour@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:744cc401.0402152248.c599035@posting.google.com...
Deconstructing 'Da Vinci'
By Julia Duin
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
"The Da Vinci Code," the best-selling novel that asserts as fact
that Jesus Christ had a daughter as well as a wife, has provoked
fierce opposition from Protestants and Catholics alike.
From Dallas Theological Seminary, whose faculty and students have
staged seminars debunking the novel, to "Christian History" magazine
in Carol Stream, Ill., which established a Da Vinci section on its Web
site (www.christianitytoday.com/history), Christians have denounced
the fabrications.
"What caused the stir, at least in part, was the author's claim
that the backdrop to his fictitious story is based on the truth," says
professor Darrell Bock of the Dallas seminary, who calls the book's
claims "ludicrous."
"Dan Brown's book isn't an innocent book," he said. "There is
something else going on here. At its very core is an attempt to
reshape our culture and Christian beliefs."
Mr. Bock's counterpunch book, "Breaking the Da Vinci Code," is due
out in April.
A thriller purporting to combine art, cryptology and religion,
"The Da Vinci Code" has sold 6.1 million copies to date and has topped
the New York Times best-seller list for 45 weeks. A movie by Columbia
Pictures is in the works.
America's religious elite ignored the book for months after it was
released in March. Then it became clear that many Americans,
particularly the unchurched, have taken the book as gospel according
to Dan Brown.
He writes that the Emperor Constantine originated the New
Testament during the fourth-century Council of Nicea, a large
gathering of Christian leaders that rewrote Jesus into a divine
figure, writing that the early church had venerated him merely as a
mortal prophet.
Other "facts" recited by Mr. Brown include assertions that
pre-Babylonian Judaism included temple prostitutes, that sex is a
prime way to God that has been squelched mainly by the Roman Catholic
Church for 2,000 years, that Gothic cathedrals are modeled after the
female body, and that Noah was an albino.
Not everyone is alarmed. David Klinghoffer, writing Dec. 8 for the
National Review, said the fact that Christians regard the novel as a
threat to their faith indicates that readers are taking the book far
too seriously.
"This also suggests that the problems in Catholic religious
education are every bit as severe as Catholic conservatives have been
alleging for some time now," he wrote. "If the professional educators
were doing their job, any believing Catholic past elementary-school
age would know that Brown's book is a total falsehood."
Leonardo Da Vinci is cited as the author of the "codes" because he
purportedly placed such clues in his paintings. One of them, according
to the novel, is that the person on Jesus' right in Da Vinci's
painting of "The Last Supper" is not the Apostle John but Mary
Magdalene. The Catholic Church, he writes, hid the "fact" that Jesus
and Mary were husband and wife and that she fled to France after the
Crucifixion, bearing him a daughter whose descendants are alive today.
Christian clerics were alarmed when a New York Daily News book
reviewer called the book's scholarship "impeccable" and the book
rocketed to the top of the best-seller charts.
"[The author] wins your trust with fascinating facts that are
true, then misleads you with insights that are not," says the Rev. Tim
Floyd, pastor of Providence Baptist Church in McLean whose Wednesday
night lecture series on the book typically draws 75 to 80 persons.
"The book easily deceives readers by cleverly mixing truths,
half-truths and complete falsehoods. Oliver Stone did the same thing
with the Kennedy assassination in his notorious [1991] movie 'JFK,'
which most people accepted as totally factual."
What spurred Mr. Floyd - and many other Christians - to action was
a Nov. 3 ABC special on whether Jesus had a wife. "I knew [such a
claim] was spurious, but people were talking about it, and I realized
I had to do something."
When the Rev. George Evans, pastor of Lutheran Church of the
Redeemer in McLean, scheduled a Da Vinci lecture for Jan. 14, "I
thought we'd get six to 10 people," he said. "We got 113 people, and
that was on a bad night, with rainy, freezing weather."
Mr. Evans was asked by a parishioner whether the word "companion"
in the gnostic Gospel of Philip meant "wife" in the Syriac language in
which the second-century manuscript was written.
"It could be used to mean 'companion,' 'friend' or maybe 'wife,'
but that stands against a flood of testimony of it being a different
relationship," he said. "The Gospels have her calling him 'rabbi,'
'lord' and 'teacher,' words you would not be saying to your husband
and lover."
Crisis magazine, a Catholic publication, took a swing at Mr.
Brown's book in its September issue.
Such debunkings might seem "like a pile driver applied to a gnat,"
author Sandra Miesel says, but "the blows are necessary to demonstrate
the utter falseness of Brown's material. His willful distortions of
documented history are more than matched by his outlandish claims
about controversial subjects. But to a postmodernist, one construct of
reality is as good as any other."
For the author, she says, "to state that the [Catholic] Church
burned five million women as witches shows a willful - and malicious -
ignorance of the historical record. The latest figures for deaths
during the European witch craze are between 30,000 to 50,000 victims."
Oh..............defenders of the bible are saying this book is based on
nothing but outrageous lies and fantasy fiction...instead of historical
truths.
Now THAT'S irony
.
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| User: "Steve Dufour" |
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| Title: Re: "Da Vinci Code" under attack |
16 Feb 2004 03:48:25 PM |
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Oh..............defenders of the bible are saying this book is based on
nothing but outrageous lies and fantasy fiction...instead of historical
truths.
Now THAT'S irony
I think God is one of the greatest writers of fiction. How about the Book of Job?
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: "Da Vinci Code" under attack |
18 Feb 2004 10:05:58 PM |
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Steve Dufour wrote:
Oh..............defenders of the bible are saying this book is based on
nothing but outrageous lies and fantasy fiction...instead of historical
truths.
Now THAT'S irony
I think God is one of the greatest writers of fiction. How about the Book of Job?
===>You don't really think it was written by "God", do you?
.
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| User: "€ R.L. Measures" |
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| Title: Re: "Da Vinci Code" under attack |
19 Feb 2004 04:59:00 AM |
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In article <40343626.C4BE6A63@Nothing_But_The.Truth>, Libertarius
<Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote:
Steve Dufour wrote:
Oh..............defenders of the bible are saying this book is based on
nothing but outrageous lies and fantasy fiction...instead of historical
truths.
Now THAT'S irony
I think God is one of the greatest writers of fiction. How about the
Book of Job?
===>You don't really think it was written by "God", do you?
*** chortle
--
€ R.L. Measures, 805-386-3734, www.somis.org. + in adr = spam trap
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| User: "€ R.L. Measures" |
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| Title: Re: "Da Vinci Code" under attack |
16 Feb 2004 12:43:20 PM |
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In article <1030sunbbiiu35c@corp.supernews.com>, "ZenIsWhen"
<ZenIsWhen@anywhere.com> wrote:
"Steve Dufour" <stevejdufour@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:744cc401.0402152248.c599035@posting.google.com...
Deconstructing 'Da Vinci'
By Julia Duin
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
"The Da Vinci Code," the best-selling novel that asserts as fact
that Jesus Christ had a daughter as well as a wife, has provoked
fierce opposition from Protestants and Catholics alike.
From Dallas Theological Seminary, whose faculty and students have
staged seminars debunking the novel, to "Christian History" magazine
in Carol Stream, Ill., which established a Da Vinci section on its Web
site (www.christianitytoday.com/history), Christians have denounced
the fabrications.
"What caused the stir, at least in part, was the author's claim
that the backdrop to his fictitious story is based on the truth," says
professor Darrell Bock of the Dallas seminary, who calls the book's
claims "ludicrous."
"Dan Brown's book isn't an innocent book," he said. "There is
something else going on here. At its very core is an attempt to
reshape our culture and Christian beliefs."
Mr. Bock's counterpunch book, "Breaking the Da Vinci Code," is due
out in April.
A thriller purporting to combine art, cryptology and religion,
"The Da Vinci Code" has sold 6.1 million copies to date and has topped
the New York Times best-seller list for 45 weeks. A movie by Columbia
Pictures is in the works.
America's religious elite ignored the book for months after it was
released in March. Then it became clear that many Americans,
particularly the unchurched, have taken the book as gospel according
to Dan Brown.
He writes that the Emperor Constantine originated the New
Testament during the fourth-century Council of Nicea, a large
gathering of Christian leaders that rewrote Jesus into a divine
figure, writing that the early church had venerated him merely as a
mortal prophet.
Other "facts" recited by Mr. Brown include assertions that
pre-Babylonian Judaism included temple prostitutes, that sex is a
prime way to God that has been squelched mainly by the Roman Catholic
Church for 2,000 years, that Gothic cathedrals are modeled after the
female body, and that Noah was an albino.
Not everyone is alarmed. David Klinghoffer, writing Dec. 8 for the
National Review, said the fact that Christians regard the novel as a
threat to their faith indicates that readers are taking the book far
too seriously.
"This also suggests that the problems in Catholic religious
education are every bit as severe as Catholic conservatives have been
alleging for some time now," he wrote. "If the professional educators
were doing their job, any believing Catholic past elementary-school
age would know that Brown's book is a total falsehood."
Leonardo Da Vinci is cited as the author of the "codes" because he
purportedly placed such clues in his paintings. One of them, according
to the novel, is that the person on Jesus' right in Da Vinci's
painting of "The Last Supper" is not the Apostle John but Mary
Magdalene. The Catholic Church, he writes, hid the "fact" that Jesus
and Mary were husband and wife and that she fled to France after the
Crucifixion, bearing him a daughter whose descendants are alive today.
Christian clerics were alarmed when a New York Daily News book
reviewer called the book's scholarship "impeccable" and the book
rocketed to the top of the best-seller charts.
"[The author] wins your trust with fascinating facts that are
true, then misleads you with insights that are not," says the Rev. Tim
Floyd, pastor of Providence Baptist Church in McLean whose Wednesday
night lecture series on the book typically draws 75 to 80 persons.
"The book easily deceives readers by cleverly mixing truths,
half-truths and complete falsehoods. Oliver Stone did the same thing
with the Kennedy assassination in his notorious [1991] movie 'JFK,'
which most people accepted as totally factual."
What spurred Mr. Floyd - and many other Christians - to action was
a Nov. 3 ABC special on whether Jesus had a wife. "I knew [such a
claim] was spurious, but people were talking about it, and I realized
I had to do something."
When the Rev. George Evans, pastor of Lutheran Church of the
Redeemer in McLean, scheduled a Da Vinci lecture for Jan. 14, "I
thought we'd get six to 10 people," he said. "We got 113 people, and
that was on a bad night, with rainy, freezing weather."
Mr. Evans was asked by a parishioner whether the word "companion"
in the gnostic Gospel of Philip meant "wife" in the Syriac language in
which the second-century manuscript was written.
"It could be used to mean 'companion,' 'friend' or maybe 'wife,'
but that stands against a flood of testimony of it being a different
relationship," he said. "The Gospels have her calling him 'rabbi,'
'lord' and 'teacher,' words you would not be saying to your husband
and lover."
Crisis magazine, a Catholic publication, took a swing at Mr.
Brown's book in its September issue.
Such debunkings might seem "like a pile driver applied to a gnat,"
author Sandra Miesel says, but "the blows are necessary to demonstrate
the utter falseness of Brown's material. His willful distortions of
documented history are more than matched by his outlandish claims
about controversial subjects. But to a postmodernist, one construct of
reality is as good as any other."
For the author, she says, "to state that the [Catholic] Church
burned five million women as witches shows a willful - and malicious -
ignorance of the historical record. The latest figures for deaths
during the European witch craze are between 30,000 to 50,000 victims."
Oh..............defenders of the bible are saying this book is based on
nothing but outrageous lies and fantasy fiction...instead of historical
truths.
Now THAT'S irony
** Indeed, Mr. Z, indeed. Additionally, TBRCs are upset by the Da Vinci
Code's material on Opus Dei, the Roman church's secret society that seems
to follow the Jesuit teaching on sin -- i.e., the Jesuits divide sin into
two types, malum prohibitum and malum in se -- the latter being by far the
more serious. Malum in se is a sin in the eyes of God. Malum prohibitum
can be equated to breaking one of man's rules -- but not one of God's
laws. In other words, Malum prohibitum is trivial-sin. For example,
"fixing" a parking ticket, laundering money for drug traffickers, or
killing persons who have substantially different religious beliefs comes
under malum prohibitum. For instance, the Huguenots were French Prots who
had numerous civil wars and numerous truces with French Catholics. The
most infamous conflict began on Saint Bartholomew's Day eve in October
1572. Under the sanction of God's Holy Church, French Catholics murdered
at least 10,000 Huguenot men, women, pregnant women, children and babies
during six weeks of slaughter. Some historians put the toll at over
20,000. Fortunately, no serious sin was being committed. The butchers were
only breaking man's rules -- i.e., malum prohibitum.
--
€ R.L. Measures, 805-386-3734, www.somis.org. + in adr = spam trap
.
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| User: "bam" |
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| Title: Re: "Da Vinci Code" under attack |
16 Feb 2004 08:09:18 PM |
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"€ R.L. Measures" <+r@somis.org> wrote The
most infamous conflict began on Saint Bartholomew's Day eve in October
1572. Under the sanction of God's Holy Church, French Catholics murdered
at least 10,000 Huguenot men, women, pregnant women, children and babies
during six weeks of slaughter. Some historians put the toll at over
20,000. Fortunately, no serious sin was being committed. The butchers were
only breaking man's rules -- i.e., malum prohibitum.
What a neat little history lesson. Taken what, straight from Foxes Book of
Martyrs?
Anyone who wants the real story:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13333b.htm
BAM
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| User: "€ R.L. Measures" |
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| Title: Re: "Da Vinci Code" under attack |
16 Feb 2004 10:26:09 PM |
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In article <pIeYb.14138$kR3.12398@bignews4.bellsouth.net>, "bam"
<mcca5761@bellsouthblahblah.net> wrote:
"€ R.L. Measures" <+r@somis.org> wrote The
most infamous conflict began on Saint Bartholomew's Day eve in October
1572. Under the sanction of God's Holy Church, French Catholics murdered
at least 10,000 Huguenot men, women, pregnant women, children and babies
during six weeks of slaughter. Some historians put the toll at over
20,000. Fortunately, no serious sin was being committed. The butchers were
only breaking man's rules -- i.e., malum prohibitum.
What a neat little history lesson. Taken what, straight from Foxes Book of
Martyrs?
€ no
Anyone who wants the real story:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13333b.htm
BAM
"The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie becane truth".
-- George Orwell, *1984*
--
€ R.L. Measures, 805-386-3734, www.somis.org. + in adr = spam trap
.
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| User: "Steve Dufour" |
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| Title: Re: "Da Vinci Code" under attack |
17 Feb 2004 10:42:34 AM |
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"The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie becane truth".
-- George Orwell, *1984*
But R.L., that's what all conspiracy fans say about their pet theories.
.
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| User: "€ R.L. Measures" |
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| Title: Re: "Da Vinci Code" under attack |
17 Feb 2004 02:46:45 PM |
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In article <744cc401.0402170842.2aff3281@posting.google.com>,
stevejdufour@yahoo.com (Steve Dufour) wrote:
"The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie becane truth".
-- George Orwell, *1984*
But R.L., that's what all conspiracy fans say about their pet theories.
** Taurine feces.
--
€ R.L. Measures, 805-386-3734, www.somis.org. + in adr = spam trap
.
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| User: "Alberich" |
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| Title: Re: "Da Vinci Code" under attack |
17 Feb 2004 04:52:29 PM |
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On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 12:46:45 -0800, +r@somis.org (€ R.L. Measures)
wrote:
In article <744cc401.0402170842.2aff3281@posting.google.com>,
stevejdufour@yahoo.com (Steve Dufour) wrote:
"The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie becane truth".
-- George Orwell, *1984*
But R.L., that's what all conspiracy fans say about their pet theories.
** Taurine feces.
Bovine effluvia.
.
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| User: "€ R.L. Measures" |
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| Title: Re: "Da Vinci Code" under attack |
17 Feb 2004 07:24:15 PM |
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In article <5p6530tm94ajc77bm3r1f8gsm6j6pd73tv@4ax.com>, Alberich
<Alberich@NoSpam.com> wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 12:46:45 -0800, +r@somis.org (€ R.L. Measures)
wrote:
In article <744cc401.0402170842.2aff3281@posting.google.com>,
stevejdufour@yahoo.com (Steve Dufour) wrote:
"The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie becane truth".
-- George Orwell, *1984*
But R.L., that's what all conspiracy fans say about their pet theories.
** Taurine feces.
Bovine effluvia.
no *****
--
€ R.L. Measures, 805-386-3734, www.somis.org. + in adr = spam trap
.
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| User: "Alberich" |
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| Title: Re: "Da Vinci Code" under attack |
17 Feb 2004 08:24:34 PM |
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On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:24:15 -0800, +r@somis.org (€ R.L. Measures)
wrote:
In article <5p6530tm94ajc77bm3r1f8gsm6j6pd73tv@4ax.com>, Alberich
<Alberich@NoSpam.com> wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 12:46:45 -0800, +r@somis.org (€ R.L. Measures)
wrote:
In article <744cc401.0402170842.2aff3281@posting.google.com>,
stevejdufour@yahoo.com (Steve Dufour) wrote:
"The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie becane truth".
-- George Orwell, *1984*
But R.L., that's what all conspiracy fans say about their pet theories.
** Taurine feces.
Bovine effluvia.
no *****
=)
.
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| User: "€ R.L. Measures" |
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| Title: Re: "Da Vinci Code" under attack |
18 Feb 2004 05:02:50 AM |
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In article <k6j5305e2iu7emb20tucl346akgpv39ie8@4ax.com>, Alberich
<Alberich@NoSpam.com> wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 17:24:15 -0800, +r@somis.org (€ R.L. Measures)
wrote:
In article <5p6530tm94ajc77bm3r1f8gsm6j6pd73tv@4ax.com>, Alberich
<Alberich@NoSpam.com> wrote:
On Tue, 17 Feb 2004 12:46:45 -0800, +r@somis.org (€ R.L. Measures)
wrote:
In article <744cc401.0402170842.2aff3281@posting.google.com>,
stevejdufour@yahoo.com (Steve Dufour) wrote:
"The past was erased, the erasure was forgotten, the lie becane
truth".
-- George Orwell, *1984*
But R.L., that's what all conspiracy fans say about their pet theories.
** Taurine feces.
Bovine effluvia.
no *****
=)
** any guess on how much I should put around our new gardenia jasminodes plant?
--
€ R.L. Measures, 805-386-3734, www.somis.org. + in adr = spam trap
.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: "Da Vinci Code" under attack |
18 Feb 2004 10:09:59 PM |
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bam wrote:
"€ R.L. Measures" <+r@somis.org> wrote The
most infamous conflict began on Saint Bartholomew's Day eve in October
1572. Under the sanction of God's Holy Church, French Catholics murdered
at least 10,000 Huguenot men, women, pregnant women, children and babies
during six weeks of slaughter. Some historians put the toll at over
20,000. Fortunately, no serious sin was being committed. The butchers were
only breaking man's rules -- i.e., malum prohibitum.
What a neat little history lesson. Taken what, straight from Foxes Book of
Martyrs?
Anyone who wants the real story:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13333b.htm
BAM
===>From the CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA???
What else would you expect but a denial and apologetic "history"??? -- L.
.
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| User: "€ R.L. Measures" |
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| Title: Re: "Da Vinci Code" under attack |
19 Feb 2004 05:06:12 AM |
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In article <40343717.FF4B341C@Nothing_But_The.Truth>, Libertarius
<Libertarius@Nothing_But_The.Truth> wrote:
bam wrote:
"€ R.L. Measures" <+r@somis.org> wrote The
most infamous conflict began on Saint Bartholomew's Day eve in October
1572. Under the sanction of God's Holy Church, French Catholics murdered
at least 10,000 Huguenot men, women, pregnant women, children and babies
during six weeks of slaughter. Some historians put the toll at over
20,000. Fortunately, no serious sin was being committed. The butchers were
only breaking man's rules -- i.e., malum prohibitum.
What a neat little history lesson. Taken what, straight from Foxes Book of
Martyrs?
Anyone who wants the real story:
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/13333b.htm
BAM
===>From the CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA???
What else would you expect but a denial and apologetic "history"??? -- L.
€€ On the cover of my Catholic Encyclopedia it says "Revised Edition".
After reading it, I must concur.
--
€ R.L. Measures, 805-386-3734, www.somis.org. + in adr = spam trap
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| User: "Steve Dufour" |
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| Title: Re: "Da Vinci Code" under attack |
17 Feb 2004 12:14:15 AM |
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** Indeed, Mr. Z, indeed. Additionally, TBRCs are upset by the Da Vinci
Code's material on Opus Dei, the Roman church's secret society that seems
to follow the Jesuit teaching on sin -- i.e., the Jesuits divide sin into
two types, malum prohibitum and malum in se -- the latter being by far the
more serious. Malum in se is a sin in the eyes of God. Malum prohibitum
can be equated to breaking one of man's rules -- but not one of God's
laws. In other words, Malum prohibitum is trivial-sin. For example,
"fixing" a parking ticket, laundering money for drug traffickers, or
killing persons who have substantially different religious beliefs comes
under malum prohibitum. For instance, the Huguenots were French Prots who
had numerous civil wars and numerous truces with French Catholics. The
most infamous conflict began on Saint Bartholomew's Day eve in October
1572. Under the sanction of God's Holy Church, French Catholics murdered
at least 10,000 Huguenot men, women, pregnant women, children and babies
during six weeks of slaughter. Some historians put the toll at over
20,000. Fortunately, no serious sin was being committed. The butchers were
only breaking man's rules -- i.e., malum prohibitum.
I would think that would be malum in se. "Thou shalt not kill."
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| User: "€ R.L. Measures" |
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| Title: Re: "Da Vinci Code" under attack |
17 Feb 2004 06:14:01 AM |
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In article <744cc401.0402162214.2bb85679@posting.google.com>,
stevejdufour@yahoo.com (Steve Dufour) wrote:
** Indeed, Mr. Z, indeed. Additionally, TBRCs are upset by the Da Vinci
Code's material on Opus Dei, the Roman church's secret society that seems
to follow the Jesuit teaching on sin -- i.e., the Jesuits divide sin into
two types, malum prohibitum and malum in se -- the latter being by far the
more serious. Malum in se is a sin in the eyes of God. Malum prohibitum
can be equated to breaking one of man's rules -- but not one of God's
laws. In other words, Malum prohibitum is trivial-sin. For example,
"fixing" a parking ticket, laundering money for drug traffickers, or
killing persons who have substantially different religious beliefs comes
under malum prohibitum. For instance, the Huguenots were French Prots who
had numerous civil wars and numerous truces with French Catholics. The
most infamous conflict began on Saint Bartholomew's Day eve in October
1572. Under the sanction of God's Holy Church, French Catholics murdered
at least 10,000 Huguenot men, women, pregnant women, children and babies
during six weeks of slaughter. Some historians put the toll at over
20,000. Fortunately, no serious sin was being committed. The butchers were
only breaking man's rules -- i.e., malum prohibitum.
I would think that would be malum in se. "Thou shalt not kill."
** Killing enemies of God's Holy Church is a holy act for which the
reward way up yonder could be quite substantial.
- Before he wrote the Los Angeles Times article "Where is the Pope on
Pedophilia" (Wednesday, 3/24/1993), Bill Buckley, Jr. was rumoured to be a
likely candidate for Opus Dei.
--
€ R.L. Measures, 805-386-3734, www.somis.org. + in adr = spam trap
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| User: "Steve Dufour" |
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| Title: Re: "Da Vinci Code" under attack |
18 Feb 2004 05:07:24 PM |
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I would think that would be malum in se. "Thou shalt not kill."
** Killing enemies of God's Holy Church is a holy act for which the
reward way up yonder could be quite substantial.
- Before he wrote the Los Angeles Times article "Where is the Pope on
Pedophilia" (Wednesday, 3/24/1993), Bill Buckley, Jr. was rumoured to be a
likely candidate for Opus Dei.
Wow! Interesting quote. Thanks.
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| User: "€ R.L. Measures" |
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| Title: Re: "Da Vinci Code" under attack |
18 Feb 2004 06:46:38 PM |
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In article <744cc401.0402181507.5d78f7ca@posting.google.com>,
stevejdufour@yahoo.com (Steve Dufour) wrote:
I would think that would be malum in se. "Thou shalt not kill."
** Killing enemies of God's Holy Church is a holy act for which the
reward way up yonder could be quite substantial.
- Before he wrote the Los Angeles Times article "Where is the Pope on
Pedophilia" (Wednesday, 3/24/1993), Bill Buckley, Jr. was rumoured to be a
likely candidate for Opus Dei.
Wow! Interesting quote. Thanks.
** ur welcome, Steve
--
€ R.L. Measures, 805-386-3734, www.somis.org. + in adr = spam trap
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: "Da Vinci Code" under attack -- IRONIC! |
18 Feb 2004 10:03:11 PM |
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ZenIsWhen wrote:
"Steve Dufour" <stevejdufour@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:744cc401.0402152248.c599035@posting.google.com...
Deconstructing 'Da Vinci'
By Julia Duin
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
"The Da Vinci Code," the best-selling novel that asserts as fact
that Jesus Christ had a daughter as well as a wife, has provoked
fierce opposition from Protestants and Catholics alike.
From Dallas Theological Seminary, whose faculty and students have
staged seminars debunking the novel, to "Christian History" magazine
in Carol Stream, Ill., which established a Da Vinci section on its Web
site (www.christianitytoday.com/history), Christians have denounced
the fabrications.
"What caused the stir, at least in part, was the author's claim
that the backdrop to his fictitious story is based on the truth," says
professor Darrell Bock of the Dallas seminary, who calls the book's
claims "ludicrous."
"Dan Brown's book isn't an innocent book," he said. "There is
something else going on here. At its very core is an attempt to
reshape our culture and Christian beliefs."
Mr. Bock's counterpunch book, "Breaking the Da Vinci Code," is due
out in April.
A thriller purporting to combine art, cryptology and religion,
"The Da Vinci Code" has sold 6.1 million copies to date and has topped
the New York Times best-seller list for 45 weeks. A movie by Columbia
Pictures is in the works.
America's religious elite ignored the book for months after it was
released in March. Then it became clear that many Americans,
particularly the unchurched, have taken the book as gospel according
to Dan Brown.
He writes that the Emperor Constantine originated the New
Testament during the fourth-century Council of Nicea, a large
gathering of Christian leaders that rewrote Jesus into a divine
figure, writing that the early church had venerated him merely as a
mortal prophet.
Other "facts" recited by Mr. Brown include assertions that
pre-Babylonian Judaism included temple prostitutes, that sex is a
prime way to God that has been squelched mainly by the Roman Catholic
Church for 2,000 years, that Gothic cathedrals are modeled after the
female body, and that Noah was an albino.
Not everyone is alarmed. David Klinghoffer, writing Dec. 8 for the
National Review, said the fact that Christians regard the novel as a
threat to their faith indicates that readers are taking the book far
too seriously.
"This also suggests that the problems in Catholic religious
education are every bit as severe as Catholic conservatives have been
alleging for some time now," he wrote. "If the professional educators
were doing their job, any believing Catholic past elementary-school
age would know that Brown's book is a total falsehood."
Leonardo Da Vinci is cited as the author of the "codes" because he
purportedly placed such clues in his paintings. One of them, according
to the novel, is that the person on Jesus' right in Da Vinci's
painting of "The Last Supper" is not the Apostle John but Mary
Magdalene. The Catholic Church, he writes, hid the "fact" that Jesus
and Mary were husband and wife and that she fled to France after the
Crucifixion, bearing him a daughter whose descendants are alive today.
Christian clerics were alarmed when a New York Daily News book
reviewer called the book's scholarship "impeccable" and the book
rocketed to the top of the best-seller charts.
"[The author] wins your trust with fascinating facts that are
true, then misleads you with insights that are not," says the Rev. Tim
Floyd, pastor of Providence Baptist Church in McLean whose Wednesday
night lecture series on the book typically draws 75 to 80 persons.
"The book easily deceives readers by cleverly mixing truths,
half-truths and complete falsehoods. Oliver Stone did the same thing
with the Kennedy assassination in his notorious [1991] movie 'JFK,'
which most people accepted as totally factual."
What spurred Mr. Floyd - and many other Christians - to action was
a Nov. 3 ABC special on whether Jesus had a wife. "I knew [such a
claim] was spurious, but people were talking about it, and I realized
I had to do something."
When the Rev. George Evans, pastor of Lutheran Church of the
Redeemer in McLean, scheduled a Da Vinci lecture for Jan. 14, "I
thought we'd get six to 10 people," he said. "We got 113 people, and
that was on a bad night, with rainy, freezing weather."
Mr. Evans was asked by a parishioner whether the word "companion"
in the gnostic Gospel of Philip meant "wife" in the Syriac language in
which the second-century manuscript was written.
"It could be used to mean 'companion,' 'friend' or maybe 'wife,'
but that stands against a flood of testimony of it being a different
relationship," he said. "The Gospels have her calling him 'rabbi,'
'lord' and 'teacher,' words you would not be saying to your husband
and lover."
Crisis magazine, a Catholic publication, took a swing at Mr.
Brown's book in its September issue.
Such debunkings might seem "like a pile driver applied to a gnat,"
author Sandra Miesel says, but "the blows are necessary to demonstrate
the utter falseness of Brown's material. His willful distortions of
documented history are more than matched by his outlandish claims
about controversial subjects. But to a postmodernist, one construct of
reality is as good as any other."
For the author, she says, "to state that the [Catholic] Church
burned five million women as witches shows a willful - and malicious -
ignorance of the historical record. The latest figures for deaths
during the European witch craze are between 30,000 to 50,000 victims."
Oh..............defenders of the bible are saying this book is based on
nothing but outrageous lies and fantasy fiction...instead of historical
truths.
Now THAT'S irony
===>It certainly is ironic, since their collection of fables and
speculations,
opinions and fantasies called "BIBLE" is no less fictional.
In fact there is more evidence for the claim that Jesus and Mary M. were
married than there is for most of the material in the Bible!
See e.g. the Gospel of Philip. Also, Bishop Spong's book:
BORN OF A WOMAN. -- L.
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| User: "Smacl Daddy" |
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| Title: Re: "Da Vinci Code" under attack |
17 Feb 2004 12:21:05 PM |
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"Steve Dufour" <stevejdufour@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:744cc401.0402152248.c599035@posting.google.com...
Deconstructing 'Da Vinci'
Bycalls the book's
Dan's book merely speaks to what the Roman church wants to hide. The Romans
were still looking for Jesus' descendants around 120ce. According to
Eusebius Roman authorities arrested Jesus' cousin.
Much implication is extant which points to a child by Jesus. Besides he
shacked up with Mary whenever he came into town. He partied hard, drank hard
and had these magical rituals regarding sex.....
He writes that the Emperor Constantine originated the New
Testament during the fourth-century Council of Nicea, a large
gathering of Christian leaders that rewrote Jesus into a divine
This is true. They decided what went into the NEw Testament., They had a
mini war killing many Christians and making heretics out of those who did
not believe the winners point of view..
pre-Babylonian Judaism included temple prostitutes,
They were called Kadesh...or holy women. The worship o the female was part
of Judaism. Yahvism..the fanatical sect which won out over old Judaism
squelched the worship of the female and rewrote hte Old Testament....
female body, and that Noah was an albino. This is stupid. This means Noah
had to have had a white child, a black child, a yellow (asiatic) child from
the same woman.
The Noah story is a story not a fact....
age would know that Brown's book is a total falsehood."
Roman catholicism has no relationship to the original Apostolic
'Christians'. Catholicism is built on the Paulinic schism which departed
from the Apostles and created a new religion based on a mythic Christ....
, victims."
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| User: "€ R.L. Measures" |
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| Title: Re: "Da Vinci Code" under attack |
17 Feb 2004 02:48:28 PM |
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In article <lYsYb.38848$hR.924978@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net>,
"Smacl Daddy" <joecamel09@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
"Steve Dufour" <stevejdufour@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:744cc401.0402152248.c599035@posting.google.com...
Deconstructing 'Da Vinci'
Bycalls the book's
Dan's book merely speaks to what the Roman church wants to hide. The Romans
were still looking for Jesus' descendants around 120ce. According to
Eusebius Roman authorities arrested Jesus' cousin.
Much implication is extant which points to a child by Jesus. Besides he
shacked up with Mary whenever he came into town. He partied hard, drank hard
and had these magical rituals regarding sex.....
He writes that the Emperor Constantine originated the New
Testament during the fourth-century Council of Nicea, a large
gathering of Christian leaders that rewrote Jesus into a divine
This is true. They decided what went into the NEw Testament., They had a
mini war killing many Christians and making heretics out of those who did
not believe the winners point of view..
pre-Babylonian Judaism included temple prostitutes,
They were called Kadesh...or holy women. ...
** Shouldn't that be spelled holey?
--
€ R.L. Measures, 805-386-3734, www.somis.org. + in adr = spam trap
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| User: "Passion of the Victim" |
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| Title: Image of Man |
05 Mar 2004 10:24:22 PM |
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--------------F9938E512BAB2806AB953864
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Adam eats from the tree of knowledge - Adam becomes self aware
Man is self aware - man becomes self worshipping - man is selfish -
original sin
Man discovers that self worship needs limits - man invents religion
The design of religion was to redirect man's desire to worship himself to
the worship of a god. The religions that use an image of a man as their
god become the most self serving of all men and thus the most self
centered self worshipping of all men. Woe be to the aboriginal men of the
earth, those that have a man as their god are the most evil murderous of
all men and they are to kill you in gods name.
------------------------------------------------------------------------
The Jeudo Christian history through Europe and Africa and then North and
South America is written in the blood of millions that were tortured by
the anthropocentric theists in the most heinous manner.
The idea that this movie "The Passion of the Christ" will implant in the
minds of the fattest of the self worshippers this planet has ever known,
that they are some how the victims rather than the victimizers is the most
disgusting distortion yet invented by the misguided mind of the self
worships.
One could take any page from the long history of torture that religion,
Christian religion, has perpetrated on men (especially men of color) and
we all could see why the sicko perverts that go in mass to see Jesus'
torture as separate from the rest. If he was alive and here today he would
flip Mel Gibson's money table and shame all those demented pin heads that
contributed money to be part of an orgy of violence like the good old days
of slave trading and genocide of indigenous peoples.
So much for being "Christ like"
Tell me how fat slobs walk like a camel through the eye of a needle?
Not gunna happen!
--------------F9938E512BAB2806AB953864
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
<br>Adam eats from the tree of knowledge - Adam becomes self aware
<p>Man is self aware - man becomes self worshipping - man is selfish -
original sin
<p>Man discovers that self worship needs limits - man invents religion
<p>The design of religion was to redirect man's desire to worship himself
to the worship of a god. The religions that use an image of a man as their
god become the most self serving of all men and thus the most self centered
self worshipping of all men. Woe be to the aboriginal men of the earth,
those that have a man as their god are the most evil murderous of all men
and they are to kill you in gods name.
<br>
<hr WIDTH="100%">
<p>The Jeudo Christian history through Europe and Africa and then North
and South America is written in the blood of millions that were tortured
by the anthropocentric theists in the most heinous manner.
<p>The idea that this movie "The Passion of the Christ" will implant
in the minds of the fattest of the self worshippers this planet has ever
known, that they are some how the victims rather than the victimizers is
the most disgusting distortion yet invented by the misguided mind of the
self worships.
<p>One could take any page from the long history of torture that religion,
Christian religion, has perpetrated on men (especially men of color) and
we all could see why the sicko perverts that go in mass to see Jesus' torture
as separate from the rest. If he was alive and here today he would flip
Mel Gibson's money table and shame all those demented pin heads that contributed
money to be part of an orgy of violence like the good old days of slave
trading and genocide of indigenous peoples.
<p>So much for being "Christ like"
<p>Tell me how fat slobs walk like a camel through the eye of a needle?
<p>Not gunna happen!</html>
--------------F9938E512BAB2806AB953864--
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| User: "Passion of the Profit" |
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| Title: Re: Image of Man |
05 Mar 2004 11:03:33 PM |
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--------------7E46B23FDB4F3B140B5C4966
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Passion of the Victim wrote:
Adam eats from the tree of knowledge - Adam becomes self aware
Man is self aware - man becomes self worshipping - man is selfish -
original sin
Man discovers that self worship needs limits - man invents religion
The design of religion was to redirect man's desire to worship himself
to the worship of a god. The religions that use an image of a man as
their god become the most self serving of all men and thus the most
self centered self worshipping of all men. Woe be to the aboriginal
men of the earth, those that have a man as their god are the most evil
murderous of all men and they are to kill you in gods name.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
The Jeudo Christian history through Europe and Africa and then North
and South America is written in the blood of millions that were
tortured by the anthropocentric theists in the most heinous manner.
The idea that this movie "The Passion of the Christ" will implant in
the minds of the fattest of the self worshippers this planet has ever
known, that they are some how the victims rather than the victimizers
is the most disgusting distortion yet invented by the misguided mind
of the self worships.
One could take any page from the long history of torture that
religion, Christian religion, has perpetrated on men (especially men
of color) and we all could see why the sicko perverts that go in mass
to see Jesus' torture as separate from the rest. If he was alive and
here today he would flip Mel Gibson's money table and shame all those
demented pin heads that contributed money to be part of an orgy of
violence like the good old days of slave trading and genocide of
indigenous peoples.
So much for being "Christ like"
Tell me how fat slobs walk like a camel through the eye of a needle?
Not gunna happen!
--------------7E46B23FDB4F3B140B5C4966
Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit
<!doctype html public "-//w3c//dtd html 4.0 transitional//en">
<html>
<p>Passion of the Victim wrote:
<blockquote TYPE=CITE>
<br>Adam eats from the tree of knowledge - Adam becomes self aware
<p>Man is self aware - man becomes self worshipping - man is selfish -
original sin
<p>Man discovers that self worship needs limits - man invents religion
<p>The design of religion was to redirect man's desire to worship himself
to the worship of a god. The religions that use an image of a man as their
god become the most self serving of all men and thus the most self centered
self worshipping of all men. Woe be to the aboriginal men of the earth,
those that have a man as their god are the most evil murderous of all men
and they are to kill you in gods name.
<br>
<hr WIDTH="100%">
<p>The Jeudo Christian history through Europe and Africa and then North
and South America is written in the blood of millions that were tortured
by the anthropocentric theists in the most heinous manner.
<p>The idea that this movie "The Passion of the Christ" will implant
in the minds of the fattest of the self worshippers this planet has ever
known, that they are some how the victims rather than the victimizers is
the most disgusting distortion yet invented by the misguided mind of the
self worships.
<p>One could take any page from the long history of torture that religion,
Christian religion, has perpetrated on men (especially men of color) and
we all could see why the sicko perverts that go in mass to see Jesus' torture
as separate from the rest. If he was alive and here today he would flip
Mel Gibson's money table and shame all those demented pin heads that contributed
money to be part of an orgy of violence like the good old days of slave
trading and genocide of indigenous peoples.
<p>So much for being "Christ like"
<p>Tell me how fat slobs walk like a camel through the eye of a needle?
<p>Not gunna happen!</blockquote>
</html>
--------------7E46B23FDB4F3B140B5C4966--
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| User: "John Norris" |
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| Title: Re: "Da Vinci Code" under attack |
16 Feb 2004 08:53:35 AM |
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(Steve Dufour) wrote in message news:<744cc401.0402152248.c599035@posting.google.com>...
Deconstructing 'Da Vinci'
By Julia Duin
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
"The Da Vinci Code," the best-selling novel that asserts as fact
that Jesus Christ had a daughter as well as a wife, has provoked
fierce opposition from Protestants and Catholics alike.
From Dallas Theological Seminary, whose faculty and students have
staged seminars debunking the novel, to "Christian History" magazine
in Carol Stream, Ill., which established a Da Vinci section on its Web
site (www.christianitytoday.com/history), Christians have denounced
the fabrications.
This news report brought to you by the newspaper owned by the Messiah:
Rev. Dr. Sun Myung Moom.
From his website--
http://www.unification.net/2004/20040127_1.html
"Ladies and gentlemen, Heaven sent Jesus to the earth 2,000 years ago
as the Messiah. Jesus was none other than the one who came to embrace
the children who had lost their parents and to restore them back to
the original ideal of Heaven. He was the True Parent.
"Reverend Moon, who stands here before you, is the one who has
appeared in this world bearing this incredible mission of the True
Parent."
JohnN
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| User: "€ R.L. Measures" |
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| Title: Re: "Da Vinci Code" under attack |
16 Feb 2004 12:45:00 PM |
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In article <d43864a.0402160653.7904827b@posting.google.com>,
jnorris53@hotmail.com (John Norris) wrote:
stevejdufour@yahoo.com (Steve Dufour) wrote in message
news:<744cc401.0402152248.c599035@posting.google.com>...
Deconstructing 'Da Vinci'
By Julia Duin
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
"The Da Vinci Code," the best-selling novel that asserts as fact
that Jesus Christ had a daughter as well as a wife, has provoked
fierce opposition from Protestants and Catholics alike.
From Dallas Theological Seminary, whose faculty and students have
staged seminars debunking the novel, to "Christian History" magazine
in Carol Stream, Ill., which established a Da Vinci section on its Web
site (www.christianitytoday.com/history), Christians have denounced
the fabrications.
This news report brought to you by the newspaper owned by the Messiah:
Rev. Dr. Sun Myung Moom.
From his website--
http://www.unification.net/2004/20040127_1.html
"Ladies and gentlemen, Heaven sent Jesus to the earth 2,000 years ago
as the Messiah. Jesus was none other than the one who came to embrace
the children who had lost their parents and to restore them back to
the original ideal of Heaven. He was the True Parent.
"Reverend Moon, who stands here before you, is the one who has
appeared in this world bearing this incredible mission of the True
Parent."
JohnN
** Reverend Moon invites comparison to a buffoon.
--
€ R.L. Measures, 805-386-3734, www.somis.org. + in adr = spam trap
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