Dave's Preterism Already Defeated



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Topic: Religions > Bible
User: "Carl"
Date: 24 Jan 2008 03:58:37 AM
Object: Dave's Preterism Already Defeated
1 Tim 3:2-3
Now the overseer must be above reproach, the husband of but one wife,
temperate, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not
given to drunkenness, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover
of money. (NIV)
A bishop then must be blameless, the husband of one wife, vigilant, sober,
of good behaviour, given to hospitality, apt to teach; Not given to wine, no
striker, not greedy of filthy lucre; but patient, not a brawler, not
covetous; (KJV)
it behoveth, therefore, the overseer to be blameless, of one wife a husband,
vigilant, sober, decent, a friend of strangers, apt to teach, not given to
wine, not a striker, not given to filthy lucre, but gentle, not contentious,
not a lover of money, (YLT)
Titus 1:6-8
An elder must be blameless, the husband of but one wife, a man whose
children believe and are not open to the charge of being wild and
disobedient. Since an overseer is entrusted with God's work, he must be
blameless - not overbearing, not quick-tempered, not given to drunkenness,
not violent, not pursuing dishonest gain. Rather he must be hospitable, one
who loves what is good, who is self-controlled, upright, holy and
disciplined. (NIV)
If any be blameless, the husband of one wife, having faithful children not
accused of riot or unruly. For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of
God; not selfwilled, not soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not
given to filthy lucre; But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men,
sober, just, holy, temperate; (KJV)
if any one is blameless, of one wife a husband, having children stedfast,
not under accusation of riotous living or insubordinate - for it behoveth
the overseer to be blameless, as God's steward, not self-pleased, nor
irascible, not given to wine, not a striker, not given to filthy lucre; but
a lover of strangers, a lover of good men, sober-minded, righteous, kind,
self-controlled, (YLT)
BISHOP
An overseer, elder, or pastor charged with the responsibility of spiritual
leadership in a local church in New Testament times. Before the church was
founded, the Greek word for bishop was used in a general sense to refer to
local gods as those who watched over people or countries. The word was later
applied to men, including those who held positions as magistrates or other
government offices. And eventually the term was extended to refer to
officials in religious communities with various functions, including those
who supervised the revenues of pagan temples. The SEPTUAGINT (Greek
translation of the Old Testament) uses bishop to refer to those who exercise
power; sometimes it indicates those who hold positions of authority. It
represents a Hebrew term that refers to those who are overseers or officers
(Num 4:16; Neh 9:9).
In the New Testament, Jesus is called the "Overseer of your souls" (1 Peter
2:25). In this passage the word is associated with the term shepherd. It is
also used to identify the leader of a Christian community or the one who
filled the office of overseer. In Acts 20:28 the elders of the church at
Ephesus summoned to meet Paul are identified as overseers. Their
responsibility, given by the Holy Spirit, was "to shepherd the church of
God." In Phil 1 bishops are associated with deacons, and the qualifications
are outlined in 1 Tim 3:2-7 and Titus 1:7-9. Included are standards for his
personal and home life, as well as the bishop's relationships with
non-believers.
In Acts 20:17,28 and Titus 1:5,7, the terms bishop and elder are used
synonymously. Also the word bishop, or its related words, appears to be
synonymous with the word shepherd, or its equivalents (Acts 20:28; 1 Peter
2:25; 5:2). In his work, the bishop was to oversee the flock of God, to
shepherd his people, to protect them from enemies, and to teach, exhort, and
encourage. He was to accomplish this primarily by being an example to his
people. He was to do this willingly and with an eager spirit, not by
coercion or for financial gain. To desire a position as bishop, the apostle
Paul declared, was to desire a good work (1 Tim 3:1). Also see ELDER.
(from Nelson's Illustrated Bible Dictionary)
ELDER
A term used throughout the Bible but designating different ideas at various
times in biblical history. The word may refer to age, experience, and
authority, as well as specific leadership roles. In ancient times authority
was given to older people with wider experience. These were often considered
the most qualified to hold places of leadership. The basic meaning of the
Hebrew and Greek words for elder is "old age." In the Old Testament those
leaders associated with Moses in governing the nation of Israel were called
"the elders of Israel" (Ex 3:16; 24:1), "the elders of the people" (Ex
19:7), or the "seventy elders" (Ex 24:1). Moses called these elders together
to give them instructions for the observance of the Passover before the
Exodus from Egypt. Later, after the years of wandering in the wilderness,
bodies of elders ruled in each city. These elders were viewed as the
representatives of the nation and its people. The term elder eventually came
to be applied to those who governed in the local communities, the rulers of
the various tribes, and those who ruled all of Israel. These leaders were
responsible for legal, political and military guidance and supervision.
During the years of Israel's captivity in Babylon and the following
centuries, elders again appeared as leaders who were responsible for
governing in the Jewish communities. These elders became the upper class,
forming a type of ruling aristocracy. Later in this period, a council of
elders of 71 members, called the SANHEDRIN, emerged. This council had both
religious and political authority among all the Jewish people in Palestine,
particularly in New Testament times. The HIGH PRIEST was the chairman of the
Sanhedrin. Local Jewish synagogues, which emerged in the period between the
Old and New Testaments, were also governed by a council of elders.
A governing structure similar to the ruling elders among the Jews was
followed in the early church. The title elder was continued, but the
significance of the office changed. Thus, the term elder is used in the New
Testament to refer to the Jewish elders of the synagogue, to the members of
the Sanhedrin, and to certain persons who held office in the church. It also
implied seniority by reason of age (1 Tim 5:2; 1 Peter 5:5). The presence of
elders in the church in the New Testament indicates that this office was
taken over from the synagogue. Elders were associated with James in
Jerusalem in the local church's government (Acts 11:30; 21:18) and, with the
apostles, in the decision of the early church council (Acts 15). Elders were
also appointed in the churches established during the apostle Paul's first
missionary journey (Acts 14:23). Paul addressed the elders at Ephesus (Acts
20:17-35). Elders played an important role in church life through their
ministry to the sick (James 5:14,15). They were apparently the teachers also
in a local congregation. In addition to ministering to the sick, their
duties consisted of explaining the Scriptures and teaching doctrine (1 Tim
5:17; 1 Peter 5:5).
(from Nelson's Illustrated Bible Dictionary)
Let us consider the qualifications of a Christian Bishop, and then we shall
soon discover who is fit for the office.
1. This Christian Bishop must be blameless; anepileepton, a person against
whom no evil can be proved; one who is everywhere invulnerable; for the word
is a metaphor, taken from the case of an expert and skillful pugilist, who
so defends every part of his body that it is impossible for his antagonist
to give one hit. So this Christian Bishop is one that has so conducted
himself, as to put it out of the reach of any person to prove that he is
either unsound in a single article of the Christian faith, or deficient in
the fulfilment of any duty incumbent on a Christian. He must be
irreprehensible; for how can he reprove that in others which they can
reprove in him?
2. He must be the husband of one wife. He should be a married man, but he
should be no polygamist; and have only one wife, i.e. one at a time. It does
not mean that, if he has been married, and his wife die, he should never
marry another. Some have most foolishly spiritualized this, and say, that by
one wife the church is intended! This silly quibbling needs no refutation.
The apostle's meaning appears to be this: that he should not be a man who
has divorced his wife and married another; nor one that has two wives at a
time. It does not appear to have been any part of the apostle's design to
prohibit second marriages, of which some have made such a serious business.
But it is natural for some men to tithe mint and cummin in religion, while
they neglect the weightier matters of the law.
3. He must be vigilant; neephaleon, from nee, not and pino, to drink.
Watchful; for as one who drinks is apt to sleep, so he who abstains from it
is more likely to keep awake, and attend to his work and charge. A Bishop
has to watch over the church, and watch for it; and this will require all
his care and circumspection. Instead of neephaleon, many MSS. read
neephalion, this may be the better orthography, but makes no alteration in
the sense.
4. He must be sober; soophrona, prudent, or, according to the etymology of
the word, from soos, sound (healthy), and phreen, mind, a man of a sound
mind; having a good understanding, and the complete government of all his
passions. A Bishop should be a man of learning, of an extensive and well
cultivated mind, dispassionate,
prudent, and sedate.
5. He must be of good behaviour; kosmion, orderly, decent, grave, and
correct in the whole of his appearance, carriage, and conduct. The preceding
term, soophrona, refers to the mind; this latter, kosmion, to the external
manners. A clownish, rude, or boorish man should never have the rule of the
church of God; the sour, the sullen, and the boisterous should never be
invested with a dignity which they would most infallibly disgrace.
6. He must be given to hospitality; philoxenon, literally, a lover of
strangers; one who is ready to receive into his house and relieve every
necessitous stranger. Hospitality, in those primitive times, was a great and
necessary virtue; then there were few inns, or places of public
entertainment; to those who were noted for benevolence the necessitous
stranger had recourse. A Christian Bishop, professing love to God and all
mankind, preaching a religion, one half of the morality of which was
included in, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, would naturally be
sought to by those who were in distress and destitute of friends. To enable
them to entertain such, the church over which they presided must have
furnished them with the means.
Such a Bishop as Paul, who was often obliged to labour with his hands for
his own support, could have little to give away. But there is a considerable
difference between an Apostolical Bishop and an Ecclesiastical Bishop: the
one was generally itinerant, the other comparatively local; the former had
neither house nor home, the latter had both; the Apostolical Bishop had
charge of the church of Christ universally, the Ecclesiastical Bishop of the
churches in a particular district. Such should be addicted to hospitality,
or works of charity; especially in these modern times, in which, besides the
spiritualities, they possess the temporalities, of the church.
7. He should be apt to teach; didaktikon, one capable of teaching; not only
wise himself, but ready to communicate his wisdom to others. One whose
delight is, to instruct the ignorant and those who are out of the way. He
must be a preacher; an able, zealous, fervent, and assiduous preacher. He is
no Bishop who has health and strength, and yet seldom or never preaches;
i.e. if he can preach-if he have the necessary gifts for the office.
8. An eighth article in his character is, he must not be given to wine; mee
paroinon. This word not only signifies one who is inordinately attached to
wine, a winebibber or tippler, but also one who is imperious, abusive,
insolent, whether through wine or otherwise. Kypke contends for this latter
acceptation here. See his proofs and examples.
9. He must be no striker; mee pleekteen, not quarrelsome; not ready to
strike a person who may displease him; no persecutor of those who may differ
from him; not prone, as one wittily said: To prove his doctrine orthodox By
apostolic blows and knocks? It is said of Bishop Bonner, of infamous memory,
that, when examining the poor Protestants whom he termed "heretics", when
worsted by them in argument he was used to smite them with his fists, and
sometimes scourge and whip them: But though he was a most ignorant and
consummate savage, yet from such a scripture as this he might have seen the
necessity of surrendering his mitre.
10. He must not be greedy of filthy lucre; mee aischrokerdee, not desirous
of base gain; not using base and unjustifiable methods to raise and increase
his revenues; not trading or trafficking; for what would be honourable in a
secular character, would be base and dishonourable in a bishop. Though such
a trait should never appear in the character of a Christian prelate, yet
there is much reason to suspect that the words above are not authentic; they
are omitted by ADFG, many others, the Syriac, all the Arabic, Coptic (and
Sahidic), AEthiopic, Armenian, later Syriac (but it appears in the margin),
the Vulgate and Itala, and by most of the Greek fathers. Griesbach has left
it out of the text, in which it does not appear that it ever had a
legitimate place. The word covetous, which we have below, expresses all the
meaning of this; and it is not likely that the apostle would insert in the
same sentence two words of the same meaning, because they were different in
sound. It appears to have been borrowed from 1 Tim 3:8.
11. He must be patient; epieikee, meek, gentle; the opposite to pleekteen, a
quarrelsome person, which it immediately follows when the spurious word
aischrokerdee is removed. Where meekness and patience do not reign, gravity
cannot exist, and the love of God cannot dwell.
12. He must not be a brawler; amachon, not contentious or litigious, but
quiet and peaceable.
13. He must not be covetous; aphilarguron, not a lover of money; not
desiring the office for the sake of its emoluments. He who loves money will
stick at nothing in order to get it. Fair and foul methods are to him alike,
provided they may be equally productive. For the sake of reputation he may
wish to get all honourably; but if that cannot be, he will not scruple to
adopt other methods. A brother pagan gives him this counsel: "Get money if
thou canst by fair means; if not, get it by hook and by crook."
(from Adam Clarke's Commentary)
Titus 1:6-8
[If any be blameless] See the notes at 1 Tim 3:2, etc.
[Having faithful children] Whose family is converted to God. It would have
been absurd to employ a man to govern the church whose children were not in
subjection to himself; for it is an apostolic maxim, that he who cannot rule
his own house, cannot rule the church of God; 1 Tim 3:5.
For a bishop must be blameless, as the steward of God; not selfwilled, not
soon angry, not given to wine, no striker, not given to filthy lucre;
[Not self-willed] Mee authadee. Not one who is determined to have his own
way in everything; setting up his own judgment to that of all others;
expecting all to pay homage to his understanding. Such a governor in the
church of God can do little good, and may do much mischief.
[Not soon angry] Mee orgilon. Not a choleric man; one who is irritable; who
is apt to be inflamed on every opposition; one who has not proper command
over his own temper.
But a lover of hospitality, a lover of good men, sober, just, holy,
temperate;
[A lover of hospitality] Philoxenon. A lover of strangers. See the note at 1
Tim 3:2. Instead of philoxenon, one manuscript has philoptoochon, a lover of
the poor. That minister who neglects the poor, but is frequent in his visits
to the rich, knows little of his Master's work, and has little of his
Master's spirit.
[A lover of good men] Philagathon. A lover of goodness or of good things in
general.
[Sober] Prudent in all his conduct. Just in all his dealings. Holy in his
heart. Temperate-self-denying and abstemious, in his food and raiment; not
too nice on points of honour, nor magisterially rigid in the exercise of his
ecclesiastical functions. Qualifications rarely found in spiritual
governors.
(from Adam Clarke's Commentary)
Folks, take at look at the qualifications set out by God Himself and take
note of how many of them Dave Raymond violates. It is numerous enough that
he disqualifies himself from any leadership position in any Christian
church. According to God's standards as set out the verses I cited above,
Dave Raymond is not a legitimate "Pastor" nor qualified to be a leader in
any Christian church. Keep those passages in mind each and every time Dave
Raymond tries to claim to be a "Pastor" while behaving in a ungodly and
unholy manner.
May God bless,
Carl
my website -- http://www.nettally.com/saints/
my blog -- http://www.anniemayhem.com/cgi-bin/wordpress/
[Say, Dave, why don't you email Pastor Jim West
(Pastor@CovenantReformedChurch.org) and Dr. Kenneth Gentry
(KennethGentry@CompuServe.COM) and discuss Preterism with them so they may
explain in greater detail where you err? Or are you too cowardly to do so?]
.


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