Religions > Bible > ~DEAR AMERICA, I'M AN OIL SOLDIER. PLEASE HEAR ME~
| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"T. Jefferson" |
| Date: |
05 Oct 2004 09:28:53 PM |
| Object: |
~DEAR AMERICA, I'M AN OIL SOLDIER. PLEASE HEAR ME~ |
Dear Mike, Iraq sucks
Civilian contractors are fleecing taxpayers; US troops don't have proper
equipment; and supposedly liberated Iraqis hate them. After the release
of Fahrenheit 9/11, Michael Moore received a flood of letters and emails
from disillusioned and angry American soldiers serving in Iraq. Here, in
an exclusive extract from his new book, we print a selection
10/05/04 "The Guardian"
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From: RH
To:
Sent: Monday, July 12, 2003 4:57 PM
Subject: Iraqi freedom veteran supports you
Dear Mr Moore,
I went to Iraq with thoughts of killing people who I thought were
horrible. I was like, "***** Iraq, ***** these people, I hope we kill
thousands." I believed my president. He was taking care of business and
wasn't going to let al Qaeda push us around. I was with the 3rd
Squadron, 7th Cavalry, 3rd Infantry division out of Fort Stewart,
Georgia. My unit was one of the first to Baghdad. I was so scared.
Didn't know what to think. Seeing dead bodies for the first time. People
blown in half. Little kids with no legs. It was overwhelming, the
sights, sounds, fear. I was over there from Jan'03 to Aug'03. I hated
every minute. It was a daily battle to keep my spirits up. I hate the
army and my job. I am supposed to get out next February but will now be
unable to because the ***** in the White House decided that now would
be a great time to put a stop-loss in effect for the army. So I get to
do a second tour in Iraq and be away from those I love again because
some guy has the audacity to put others' lives on the line for his
personal war. I thought we were the good guys.
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From: Michael W
Sent: Tuesday July 13 2004 12.28pm
Subject: Dude, Iraq sucks
My name is Michael W and I am a 30-year-old National Guard infantryman
serving in southeast Baghdad. I have been in Iraq since March of 04 and
will continue to serve here until March of 05.
In the few short months my unit has been in Iraq, we have already lost
one man and have had many injured (including me) in combat operations.
And for what? At the very least, the government could have made sure
that each of our vehicles had the proper armament to protect us
soldiers.
In the early morning hours of May 10, one month to the day from my 30th
birthday, I and 12 other men were attacked in a well-executed roadside
ambush in south-east Baghdad. We were attacked with small-arms fire, a
rocket-propelled grenade, and two well-placed roadside bombs. These
roadside bombs nearly destroyed one of our Hummers and riddled my
friends with shrapnel, almost killing them. They would not have had a
scratch if they had the "Up Armour" kits on them. So where was [George]
W [Bush] on that one?
It's just so ridiculous, which leads me to my next point. A Blackwater
contractor makes $15,000 [£8,400] a month for doing the same job as my
pals and me. I make about $4,000 [£2,240] a month over here. What's up
with that?
Beyond that, the government is calling up more and more troops from the
reserves. For what? Man, there is a huge fucking scam going on here!
There are civilian contractors crawling all over this country.
Blackwater, Kellogg Brown & Root, Halliburton, on and on. These
contractors are doing everything you can think of from security to
catering lunch!
We are spending money out the ***** for this *****, and very few of the
projects are going to the Iraqi people. Someone's back is getting
scratched here, and it ain't the Iraqis'!
My life is left to chance at this point. I just hope I come home alive.
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From: Specialist Willy
Sent: Tuesday March 9 2004 1.23pm
Subject: Thank you
Mike, I'd like to thank you for all of the support you're showing for
the soldiers here in Iraq. I am in Baghdad right now, and it's such a
relief to know that people still care about the lemmings who are forced
to fight in this conflict.
It's hard listening to my platoon sergeant saying, "If you decide you
want to kill a civilian that looks threatening, shoot him. I'd rather
fill out paperwork than get one of my soldiers killed by some raghead."
We are taught that if someone even looks threatening we should do
something before they do something to us. I wasn't brought up in fear
like that, and it's going to take some getting used to.
It's also very hard talking to people here about this war. They don't
like to hear that the reason they are being torn away from their
families is *****, or that their "president" doesn't care about them.
A few people here have become quite upset with me, and at one point I
was going to be discharged for constantly inciting arguments and
disrespect to my commander-in-chief (Dubya). It's very hard to be
silenced about this when I see the same 150 people every day just going
through the motions, not sure why they are doing it.
[ Willy sent an update in early August ]
People's perceptions of this war have done a complete 180 since we got
here. We had someone die in a mortar attack the first week, and ever
since then, things have changed completely. Soldiers are calling their
families urging them to support John Kerry. If this is happening
elsewhere, it looks as if the overseas military vote that Bush is used
to won't be there this time around.
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From: Kyle Waldman
Sent: Friday February 27 2004 2.35am
Subject: None
As we can all obviously see, Iraq was not and is not an imminent threat
to the United States or the rest of the world. My time in Iraq has
taught me a little about the Iraqi people and the state of this
war-torn, poverty-stricken country.
The illiteracy rate in this country is phenomenal. There were some
farmers who didn't even know there was an Operation Iraqi Freedom. This
was when I realised that this war was initiated by the few who would
profit from it and not for its people. We, as the coalition forces, did
not liberate these people; we drove them even deeper into poverty. I
don't foresee any economic relief coming soon to these people by the way
Bush has already diverted its oil revenues to make sure there will be
enough oil for our SUVs.
We are here trying to keep peace when all we have been trained for is to
destroy. How are 200,000 soldiers supposed to take control of this
country? Why didn't we have an effective plan to rebuild Iraq's
infrastructure? Why aren't the American people more aware of these
atrocities?
My fiancee and I have seriously looked into moving to Canada as
political refugees.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Anonymous
Sent: Thursday April 15 2004 12.41am
Subject: From KBR truck driver now in Iraq
Mike, I am a truck driver right now in Iraq. Let me give you this one
small fact because I am right here at the heart of it: since I started
this job several months ago, 100% (that's right, not 99%) of the workers
I am aware of are inflating the hours they claim on their time sheets.
There is so much more I could tell you. But the fact is that MILLIONS
AND MILLIONS of dollars are being raped from both the American taxpayers
and the Iraqi people because of the unbelievable amount of greed and
abuse over here. And yes, my conscience does bother me because I am
participating in this rip-off.
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From: Andrew Balthazor
Sent: Friday August 27 2004 1.53pm
Subject: Iraqi war vet - makes me sound so old
Mr Moore, I am an ex-military intelligence officer who served 10 months
in Baghdad; I was the senior intelligence officer for the area of
Baghdad that included the UN HQ and Sadr City.
Since Bush exposed my person and my friends, peers, and subordinates to
unnecessary danger in a war apparently designed to generate income for a
select few in the upper echelon of America, I have become wholeheartedly
anti-Bush, to the chagrin of much of my pro-Republican family.
As a "foot soldier" in the "war on terror" I can personally testify that
Bush's administration has failed to effectively fight terrorists or the
root causes of terror. The White House and the DoD failed to plan for
reconstruction of Iraq. Contracts weren't tendered until Feb-Mar of
2003, and the Office of Reconstruction and Humanitarian Assistance (the
original CPA) didn't even come into existence until January 2003. This
failure to plan for the "peace" is a direct cause for the insecurity of
Iraq today.
Immediately after the "war" portion of the fighting (which really ended
around April 9 2003), we should have been prepared to send in a massive
reconstruction effort. Right away we needed engineers to diagnose
problems, we needed contractors repairing problems, we needed immediate
food, water, shelter, and fuel for the Iraqi people, and we needed more
security for all of this to work - which we did not have because we did
not have enough troops on the ground, and CPA decided to disband the
Iraqi army. The former Iraqi police were engaged far too late; a plan
should have existed to bring them into the fold right away.
I've left the military. If there is anything I can do to help get Bush
out of office, let me know.
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From: Anthony Pietsch
Sent: Thursday August 5 2004 6.13pm
Subject: Soldier for sale
Dear Mr Moore, my name is Tony Pietsch, and I am a National Guardsman
who has been stationed in Kuwait and Iraq for the past 15 months. Along
with so many other guard and reserve units, my unit was put on convoy
escorts. We were on gun trucks running from the bottom of Iraq to about
two hours above Baghdad.
The Iraqi resistance was insanity. I spent many nights lying awake after
mortar rounds had just struck areas nearby, some coming close enough to
throw rocks against my tent. I've seen roadside bombs go off all over,
Iraqis trying to ram the side of our vehicle. Small children giving us
the finger and throwing rocks at the soldiers in the turrets. We were
once lost in Baghdad and received nothing but dirty looks and angry
gestures for hours.
I have personally been afraid for my life more days than I can count. We
lost our first man only a few weeks before our tour was over, but it
seems that all is for nothing because all we see is hostility and anger
over our being there. They are angry over the abuse scandal and the
collateral damages that are always occurring.
I don't know how the rest of my life will turn out, but I truly regret
being a 16-year-old kid looking for some extra pocket money and a way to
college.
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From: Sean Huze
Sent: Sunday March 28 2004 7.56pm
Subject: "Dude, Where's My Country?"
I am an LCPL in the US Marine Corps and veteran of Operation Iraqi
Freedom. Mr Moore, please keep pounding away at Bush. I'm not some *****
when it comes to war. However, the position we were put in - fighting an
enemy that used women, children, and other civilians as shields; forcing
us to choose between firing at "area targets" (nice way of saying firing
into crowds) or being killed by the bastards using the crowds for cover
- is indescribably horrible.
I saw more than a few dead children littering the streets in Nasiriyah,
along with countless other civilians. And through all this, I held on to
the belief that it had to be for some greater good.
Months have passed since I've been back home and the unfortunate
conclusion I've come to is that Bush is a lying, manipulative
***** who cares nothing for the lives of those of us who serve in
uniform. Hell, other than playing dress-up on aircraft carriers, what
would he know about serving this nation in uniform?
His silence and refusal to speak under oath to the 9/11 Commission
further mocks our country. The Patriot Act violates every principle we
fight and die for. And all of this has been during his first term. Can
you imagine his policies when he doesn't have to worry about
re-election? We can't allow that to happen, and there are so many like
me in the military who feel this way. We were lied to and used. And
there aren't words to describe the sense of betrayal I feel as a result.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: Joseph Cherwinski
Sent: Saturday July 3 2004 8.33pm
Subject: "Fahrenheit 9/11"
I am a soldier in the United States army. I was in Iraq with the Fourth
Infantry Division.
I was guarding some Iraqi workers one day. Their task was to fill
sandbags for our base. The temperature was at least 120. I had to sit
there with full gear on and monitor them. I was sitting and drinking
water, and I could barely tolerate the heat, so I directed the workers
to go to the shade and sit and drink water. I let them rest for about 20
minutes. Then a staff sergeant told me that they didn't need a break,
and that they were to fill sandbags until the cows come home. He told
the Iraqis to go back to work.
After 30 minutes, I let them have a break again, thus disobeying orders.
If these were soldiers working, in this heat, those soldiers would be
bound to a 10-minute work, 50-minute rest cycle, to prevent heat
casualties. Again the staff sergeant came and sent the Iraqis back to
work and told me I could sit in the shade. I told him no, I had to be
out there with them so that when I started to need water, then they
would definitely need water. He told me that wasn't necessary, and that
they live here, and that they are used to it.
After he left, I put the Iraqis back into the shade. I could tell that
some were very dehydrated; most of them were thin enough to be on an
international food aid commercial. I would not treat my fellow soldiers
in this manner, so I did not treat the Iraqi workers this way either.
This went on for eight months while I was in Iraq, and going through it
told me that we were not there for their freedom, we were not there for
WMD. We had no idea what we were fighting for anymore.
Will They Ever Trust Us Again? Letters from the Warzone to Michael Moore
by Michael Moore, to be published by Allen Lane on October 7 at £12.99.
Copyright © Michael Moore 2004. To order a copy for £12.34 with free UK
p&p, call the Guardian Book Service on 0870 836 0875, or go to
www.guardian.co.uk/bookshop.
© Guardian Newspapers Limited 2004
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| User: "rander3127" |
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| Title: Re: ~DEAR AMERICA, I'M AN OIL SOLDIER. PLEASE HEAR ME~ |
05 Oct 2004 10:24:35 PM |
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Assuming it's real (we know the penchant Democratic supporters
have for fabrication) I'd say to the soldier;
"Too bad!" "I guess you never thought you'd actually have to DO
you job!"
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| User: "Jake WK" |
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| Title: Re: ~DEAR AMERICA, I'M AN OIL SOLDIER. PLEASE HEAR ME~ |
06 Oct 2004 07:49:14 AM |
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On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 23:24:35 -0400, rander3127 <rander3127@rogers.com> wrote:
Assuming it's real (we know the penchant Democratic supporters
have for fabrication) I'd say to the soldier;
"Too bad!" "I guess you never thought you'd actually have to DO
you job!"
If you think everything described in those letters is what the job of a U.S.
soldier is supposed to be....then you really are an amoral pig.
Ever put your own sorry ***** in harm's way for your country, you Canadian thug?
Certainly not, since you are unfit.
In case you didn't know it, as American citizens we have a sacred pact with
those honorable men and women who serve in our military---and we always have.
We ask them to defend us and be the first line of defense (note that word) to
protect this great nation and, in exchange, we have an obligation to never do so
needlessly or squander that service or their lives with disregard. The same
applies to Canadian forces who serve and protect their country to keep it safe
and free for the creeps like you who despise them and think they could ever get
paid enough to sacrifice their lives blithely or needlessly just because its "a
job".
The men and women who have served in our military are us----our sons and
daughters. The men and women who have served in our military over all these
generations for little pay, limited benefits, and scant personal appreciation
are not hired mercenaries or cannon fodder----nor are their lives to be used as
venture capital for overseas oil or economic development.
And you, Rander, are unfit to shine their boots, whether they be U.S. boots or
Canadian boots. Your opinion of such fighting men and women who serve is
beneath contempt; and your contempt for them as a whole and individually---and
your contempt for their service except as disposable tools to a greedy end---is
duly noted.
Jake
(also a Vet)
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| User: "rander3127" |
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| Title: Re: ~DEAR AMERICA, I'M AN OIL SOLDIER. PLEASE HEAR ME~ |
06 Oct 2004 01:50:56 PM |
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On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 07:49:14 -0500, Jake WK <jakeyake@gimmejam.com>
wrote:
On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 23:24:35 -0400, rander3127 <rander3127@rogers.com> wrote:
Assuming it's real (we know the penchant Democratic supporters
have for fabrication) I'd say to the soldier;
"Too bad!" "I guess you never thought you'd actually have to DO
you job!"
If you think everything described in those letters is what the job of a U.S.
soldier is supposed to be....then you really are an amoral pig.
Ever put your own sorry ***** in harm's way for your country, you Canadian thug?
Certainly not, since you are unfit.
In case you didn't know it, as American citizens we have a sacred pact with
those honorable men and women who serve in our military---and we always have.
We ask them to defend us and be the first line of defense (note that word) to
protect this great nation and, in exchange, we have an obligation to never do so
needlessly or squander that service or their lives with disregard. The same
applies to Canadian forces who serve and protect their country to keep it safe
and free for the creeps like you who despise them and think they could ever get
paid enough to sacrifice their lives blithely or needlessly just because its "a
job".
Look idiot; Every time there is a war, some people will oppose it.
They may even think they have good reasons for opposing it.
But it doesn't change the fact that to fight is a soldier's job.
No one conscripted them, drafted them, they CHOSE that
profession.
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| User: "Nick Demola" |
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| Title: Re: ~DEAR AMERICA, I'M AN OIL SOLDIER. PLEASE HEAR ME~ |
07 Oct 2004 03:36:13 AM |
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It is our job to ensure that the soldiers are treated honestly and with the
best intentions. It IS their job to serve, it is our job to make sure we
are not putting their lives on the line for nothing.
And yes... that is OUR job. If our president will not do his part, it is
our job to make sure he is no longer president.
I just hope he loses. For no other reason than it's been 41 years since we
had a presidential assassination. And I don't want to see that streak end.
"rander3127" <rander3127@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:shf8m0l7amreobog7ftprv6obog5q82ol2@4ax.com...
On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 07:49:14 -0500, Jake WK <jakeyake@gimmejam.com>
wrote:
On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 23:24:35 -0400, rander3127 <rander3127@rogers.com>
wrote:
Assuming it's real (we know the penchant Democratic supporters
have for fabrication) I'd say to the soldier;
"Too bad!" "I guess you never thought you'd actually have to DO
you job!"
If you think everything described in those letters is what the job of a
U.S.
soldier is supposed to be....then you really are an amoral pig.
Ever put your own sorry ***** in harm's way for your country, you Canadian
thug?
Certainly not, since you are unfit.
In case you didn't know it, as American citizens we have a sacred pact
with
those honorable men and women who serve in our military---and we always
have.
We ask them to defend us and be the first line of defense (note that
word) to
protect this great nation and, in exchange, we have an obligation to
never do so
needlessly or squander that service or their lives with disregard. The
same
applies to Canadian forces who serve and protect their country to keep it
safe
and free for the creeps like you who despise them and think they could
ever get
paid enough to sacrifice their lives blithely or needlessly just because
its "a
job".
Look idiot; Every time there is a war, some people will oppose it.
They may even think they have good reasons for opposing it.
But it doesn't change the fact that to fight is a soldier's job.
No one conscripted them, drafted them, they CHOSE that
profession.
.
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| User: "rander3127" |
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| Title: Re: ~DEAR AMERICA, I'M AN OIL SOLDIER. PLEASE HEAR ME~ |
07 Oct 2004 03:33:08 PM |
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On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:36:13 GMT, "Nick Demola"
<nickdemola@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
It is our job to ensure that the soldiers are treated honestly and with the
best intentions. It IS their job to serve, it is our job to make sure we
are not putting their lives on the line for nothing.
And yes... that is OUR job. If our president will not do his part, it is
our job to make sure he is no longer president.
I just hope he loses. For no other reason than it's been 41 years since we
had a presidential assassination. And I don't want to see that streak end.
Who the Hell are YOU to second-guess the administration?
So everytime a bunch of leftist (or rightist) malcontents think
"it isn't right to go to war" you get to say no?
If you want that, then form a government by acclimation,
you do not deserve a representative government.
Good luck!
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| User: "Allan" |
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| Title: Re: ~DEAR AMERICA, I'M AN OIL SOLDIER. PLEASE HEAR ME~ |
08 Oct 2004 12:55:51 AM |
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On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 16:33:08 -0400, rander3127 <rander3127@rogers.com>
wrote:
Who the Hell are YOU to second-guess the administration?
Shut the ***** up Racist boy.
So everytime a bunch of leftist (or rightist) malcontents think
"it isn't right to go to war" you get to say no?
So every time some a president gives a complete ***** rationale for
invading a country... you should believe it?.... that might be for
you.
If you want that, then form a government by acclimation,
you do not deserve a representative government.
Good luck!
Or just ask for the truth. Seems weird doesn't it. Old Racist Rich
isn't used to that.
"Arguing with anonymous strangers on the Internet is a sucker's game
because they almost always turn out to be -- or to be indistinguishable from
-- self-righteous sixteen-year-olds possessing infinite amounts of free time."
- Neil Stephenson, _Cryptonomicon_
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| User: "Jake WK" |
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| Title: Re: ~DEAR AMERICA, I'M AN OIL SOLDIER. PLEASE HEAR ME~ |
08 Oct 2004 12:31:35 PM |
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On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 16:33:08 -0400, rander3127 <rander3127@rogers.com> wrote:
On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:36:13 GMT, "Nick Demola"
<nickdemola@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
It is our job to ensure that the soldiers are treated honestly and with the
best intentions. It IS their job to serve, it is our job to make sure we
are not putting their lives on the line for nothing.
And yes... that is OUR job. If our president will not do his part, it is
our job to make sure he is no longer president.
I just hope he loses. For no other reason than it's been 41 years since we
had a presidential assassination. And I don't want to see that streak end.
Who the Hell are YOU to second-guess the administration?
So everytime a bunch of leftist (or rightist) malcontents think
"it isn't right to go to war" you get to say no?
If you want that, then form a government by acclimation,
you do not deserve a representative government.
Good luck!
This country was founded on the right of every citizen to second-guess the
administration and government. It is, in fact, their patriotic duty if they
disagree with their government's actions.
We know you hate everything the founders of this country and our Constitution
stand for; but this is the way it was meant to be. Live with it. Idiots like
you who never bothered to learn history, muchless the history of this nation,
are too dim to realize that one of the most fundamental tenets upon which this
country was founded was freedom of tyranny from the majority and the right to
dissent openly if you think your government is wrong---and the right to campaign
openly to change the course of a sitting government. They work for us; we don't
work for them.
"Dissent is the highest form of patriotism."
- President Thomas Jefferson
"It is the duty of the patriot to protect his country from the government.
- Thomas Paine
"Patriotism means to stand by the country. It does not mean to stand by the
President."
- President Theodore Roosevelt
"The President is merely the most important among a large number of public
servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is
warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in
rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the nation as a whole.
Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell
the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly as necessary to
blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other
attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile. To announce that there
must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President,
right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any
one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or
unpleasant, about him than about any one else."
- President Theodore Roosevelt, 1912
"A President is impeachable if he attempts to subvert the Constitution".
-- President James Madison
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety
deserve neither."
- Ben Franklin
"If ever time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest
seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots
to prevent its ruin."
- Samuel Adams
"The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing."
- Edmund Burke
"This country, with its institutions, belongs to the people who inhabit it.
Whenever they shall grow weary of the existing government, they can exercise
their constitutional right of amending it, or exercise their revolutionary right
to overthrow it."
- President Abraham Lincoln
"In the beginning of a change, the patriot is a scarce and brave man, hated and
scorned. When his cause succeeds however, the timid join him, for then it costs
nothing to be a patriot."
- 'Mark Twain'
"I love America more than any other country in this world, and, exactly for this
reason, I insist on the right to criticize her perpetually."
- James Baldwin, Notes of a Native Son
"So long as we have enough people in this country willing to fight for their
rights, we'll be called a democracy."
- Roger Baldwin
"Disobedience, in the eyes of any one who has read history, is man's original
virtue. It is through disobedience that progress has been made, through
disobedience and through rebellion."
- Oscar Wilde
"Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it."
- George Bernard Shaw
"The ultimate measure of a man is not where he stands in moments of comfort, and
convenience, but where he stands at times of challenge and controversy."
- Dr. Martin Luther King
"Throughout history, it has been the inaction of those who could have acted; the
indifference of those who should have known better; the silence of the voice of
justice when it mattered most; that has made it possible for evil to triumph."
- Haile Selassie
"Our lives begin to end the day we become silent about things that matter."
- Reverend Martin Luther King Jr.
"The darkest places in hell are reserved for those who maintain their neutrality
in times of moral crisis."
- Dante
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| User: "Tom Zielinski" |
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| Title: Re: ~DEAR AMERICA, I'M AN OIL SOLDIER. PLEASE HEAR ME~ |
08 Oct 2004 12:37:01 PM |
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"Jake WK" <jakeyake@gimmejam.com> wrote in message
news:OM1mQTr7YsdxAMhWK8OLQG3Sy+0b@4ax.com...
On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 16:33:08 -0400, rander3127 <rander3127@rogers.com>
wrote:
This country was founded on the right of every citizen to second-guess the
administration and government. It is, in fact, their patriotic duty if
they
disagree with their government's actions.
We know you hate everything the founders of this country and our
Constitution
stand for; but this is the way it was meant to be. Live with it. Idiots
like
you who never bothered to learn history, muchless the history of this
nation,
are too dim to realize that one of the most fundamental tenets upon which
this
country was founded was freedom of tyranny from the majority and the right
to
dissent openly if you think your government is wrong---and the right to
campaign
openly to change the course of a sitting government. They work for us; we
don't
work for them.
Excellent post. I find that this last sentence is way too often forgotten.
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| User: "Clockwork Orange" |
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| Title: Re: ~DEAR AMERICA, I'M AN OIL SOLDIER. PLEASE HEAR ME~ |
08 Oct 2004 01:36:58 PM |
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Oh, I'm a lumberjack, and I'm okay, "Tom Zielinski"
<rtomz@comcast.net>!
They work for us; we don't work for them.
Excellent post. I find that this last sentence is way too often
forgotten.
Try it on a cop sometime.
--
Cheers,
--Jeff
"We have two quarterbacks now who can play,"
said Pasqualoni. "Both are still
developmental players."
HUH???
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| User: "Paul G. Wenthold" |
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| Title: Re: ~DEAR AMERICA, I'M AN OIL SOLDIER. PLEASE HEAR ME~ |
07 Oct 2004 04:00:03 PM |
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rander3127 wrote:
On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:36:13 GMT, "Nick Demola"
<nickdemola@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
It is our job to ensure that the soldiers are treated honestly and with the
best intentions. It IS their job to serve, it is our job to make sure we
are not putting their lives on the line for nothing.
And yes... that is OUR job. If our president will not do his part, it is
our job to make sure he is no longer president.
I just hope he loses. For no other reason than it's been 41 years since we
had a presidential assassination. And I don't want to see that streak end.
Who the Hell are YOU to second-guess the administration?
Me? I'm a citizen, which makes it not only my right but my duty to
question my government. Constantly.
Dissent when I disagree is not a priviledge in the US, it is our
patriotic duty.
Of course, you'd think now that those who were "second-guessing" the
government's justification for war have been shown to be right all along
(at least according to the CIA) that more people would wake up and
realize that it might not be such a bad thing. But instead, they just
dodge and claim things like that it really _wasn't_ about Iraq having
WMDs, it was that he thought maybe someday he'd like to get rebuild his
weapons arsenal.
[kill thread attempt]The German Nazis were great about never questioning
their government and would never thought to second-guess the actions of
Hitler.[/kill thread]
paul
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| User: "rander3127" |
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| Title: Re: ~DEAR AMERICA, I'M AN OIL SOLDIER. PLEASE HEAR ME~ |
07 Oct 2004 07:19:26 PM |
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On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 16:00:03 -0500, "Paul G. Wenthold"
<pgwNOTTHIS@purdue.NOTTHIS.edu> wrote:
rander3127 wrote:
On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:36:13 GMT, "Nick Demola"
<nickdemola@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
It is our job to ensure that the soldiers are treated honestly and with the
best intentions. It IS their job to serve, it is our job to make sure we
are not putting their lives on the line for nothing.
And yes... that is OUR job. If our president will not do his part, it is
our job to make sure he is no longer president.
I just hope he loses. For no other reason than it's been 41 years since we
had a presidential assassination. And I don't want to see that streak end.
Who the Hell are YOU to second-guess the administration?
Me? I'm a citizen, which makes it not only my right but my duty to
question my government. Constantly.
Fine. Go parade in the streets. Otherwise, get elected and you
can make decisions for the rest of the country, little leftist wannabe
dictator.
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| User: "Allan" |
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| Title: Re: ~DEAR AMERICA, I'M AN OIL SOLDIER. PLEASE HEAR ME~ |
08 Oct 2004 12:48:05 AM |
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On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 20:19:26 -0400, rander3127 <rander3127@rogers.com>
wrote:
Fine. Go parade in the streets. Otherwise, get elected and you
can make decisions for the rest of the country, little leftist wannabe
dictator.
Hey Sparky... you live in Canada... get over it.
"Arguing with anonymous strangers on the Internet is a sucker's game
because they almost always turn out to be -- or to be indistinguishable from
-- self-righteous sixteen-year-olds possessing infinite amounts of free time."
- Neil Stephenson, _Cryptonomicon_
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| User: "Ima Pseudonym" |
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| Title: Re: ~DEAR AMERICA, I'M AN OIL SOLDIER. PLEASE HEAR ME~ |
07 Oct 2004 09:03:52 PM |
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On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 20:19:26 -0400, rander3127 <rander3127@rogers.com>
wrote:
On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 16:00:03 -0500, "Paul G. Wenthold"
<pgwNOTTHIS@purdue.NOTTHIS.edu> wrote:
rander3127 wrote:
On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:36:13 GMT, "Nick Demola"
<nickdemola@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
It is our job to ensure that the soldiers are treated honestly and with the
best intentions. It IS their job to serve, it is our job to make sure we
are not putting their lives on the line for nothing.
And yes... that is OUR job. If our president will not do his part, it is
our job to make sure he is no longer president.
I just hope he loses. For no other reason than it's been 41 years since we
had a presidential assassination. And I don't want to see that streak end.
Who the Hell are YOU to second-guess the administration?
Me? I'm a citizen, which makes it not only my right but my duty to
question my government. Constantly.
Fine. Go parade in the streets. Otherwise, get elected and you
can make decisions for the rest of the country, little leftist wannabe
dictator.
Heh. You actually are saying that dissent is dictatorial.
Have you thought about going to Hollywood and writing a sitcom? Your
material is hilarious.
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| User: "Brian Rost" |
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| Title: Re: ~DEAR AMERICA, I'M AN OIL SOLDIER. PLEASE HEAR ME~ |
07 Oct 2004 03:53:53 PM |
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rander3127 wrote:
Who the Hell are YOU to second-guess the administration?
As a veteran, I second-guess it all the time.
I was proud to serve but I did so to serve my country not some yoyo who
couldn't be bothered to complete his guard duty.
I dig the cross posting BTW...
--
Brian Rost
Stargen, Inc.
**********************************************************************
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| User: "Jake WK" |
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| Title: RONGWAY RANDER: WRONGHEADED (was Re: ~DEAR AMERICA, I'M AN OIL SOLDIER. PLEASE HEAR ME~) |
07 Oct 2004 08:57:10 AM |
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On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 14:50:56 -0400, rander3127 <rander3127@rogers.com> wrote:
On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 07:49:14 -0500, Jake WK <jakeyake@gimmejam.com>
wrote:
On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 23:24:35 -0400, rander3127 <rander3127@rogers.com> wrote:
Assuming it's real (we know the penchant Democratic supporters
have for fabrication) I'd say to the soldier;
"Too bad!" "I guess you never thought you'd actually have to DO
you job!"
If you think everything described in those letters is what the job of a U.S.
soldier is supposed to be....then you really are an amoral pig.
Ever put your own sorry ***** in harm's way for your country, you Canadian thug?
Certainly not, since you are unfit.
In case you didn't know it, as American citizens we have a sacred pact with
those honorable men and women who serve in our military---and we always have.
We ask them to defend us and be the first line of defense (note that word) to
protect this great nation and, in exchange, we have an obligation to never do so
needlessly or squander that service or their lives with disregard. The same
applies to Canadian forces who serve and protect their country to keep it safe
and free for the creeps like you who despise them and think they could ever get
paid enough to sacrifice their lives blithely or needlessly just because its "a
job".
Look idiot; Every time there is a war, some people will oppose it.
They may even think they have good reasons for opposing it.
But it doesn't change the fact that to fight is a soldier's job.
No one conscripted them, drafted them, they CHOSE that
profession.
They chose it with the understanding that they would not be engaged in combat by
their government needlessly or foolishly. They joined the U.S. Armed Forces;
they did not sign on as mercenaries. Ask any president of the United States or
any general who ever served if that is not supposed to be the case. Even the
ones who've misused and abuse it (like George Bush) will tell you that
officially.
And, like I said, you fucking gutless Canook----if you think everything
described in those letters constitutes what is supposed to the duty of a
soldier, including the shooting of civilians for mere suspicion and without
cause (which is an illegal order), then you're an even bigger amoral thug than
we thought you were. Defrauding the government of funds is also a crime.
Having actually served in the military (which I can tell you never have, you
scummy chickenhawk), I can attest firsthand to the fact that you are instructed
in basic training that a soldier should never obey an illegal order and, in
fact, it is their duty to report it. The truth, however, is that most in such
situations are afraid to report such illegal activities within the military for
fear of reprisal from their superiors.
Ever hear of the Nuremberg Trials, you little neo-Nazi? Well, their defense was
that they were just "following orders". Read up if you can muster a smidgen of
guts or a sliver of a spine:
http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/militarylaw1/a/obeyingorders.htm
That's reality. The other reality is that you're a pustule on the ***** of
humanity.
It is really sick what guys like you who never served think our military men and
women are meant to be used for. You think they are simply killing and torturing
and ***** detail machines to be used however the powers that be see fit; but
that's not how it is. You have absolutely no working knowledge or sense of
military code or military law; muchless the Constitution of the United States.
Therefore, you are unfit to make judgements in this area.
Jake
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| User: "Jake WK" |
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| Title: BUSH IS DRINKING AGAIN - Refuses to take physical |
07 Oct 2004 09:56:06 PM |
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Common knowledge in Washington DC is that George Bush is drinking again. He
refuses to take his annual physical until after the election.
http://dailykos.com/story/2004/10/6/204615/743
----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000 Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption =---
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| User: "Dore" |
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| Title: Re: BUSH IS DRINKING AGAIN - Refuses to take physical |
08 Oct 2004 07:31:21 PM |
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"Jake WK" <jakeyake@gimmejam.com> wrote in message
news:uAFmQf9CXg2cuJ06ZSD7ZSH7Lm9R@4ax.com...
Common knowledge in Washington DC is that George Bush is drinking again.
He
refuses to take his annual physical until after the election.
Why wouldn't he? The globalists have set him up to be the fall guy, and take
the heat for their decisions. He doesn't make any decisions, but does
exactly what the New World Order, Illuminati elitists tell him to, and now
the cat is out of the bag, the 911 attacks have been exposed as governmental
implementation, The Iraq war was implemented on all lies, also being
exposed, and the people who are wise and in the know about these murderous
events are shouting for his blood, while the real perpetrators, the
Illuminati globalists are the real demons behind the public faces, let him
take the fall. Let him drink and drown his sorrows, he has allot to be
sorry for, since he willingly sold his soul to the SATANIC globalists for
power, glory, riches and rule on American soil and payment is coming due.
--
Dore
www.dorewilliamson.com
"Jake WK" <jakeyake@gimmejam.com> wrote in message
news:uAFmQf9CXg2cuJ06ZSD7ZSH7Lm9R@4ax.com...
Common knowledge in Washington DC is that George Bush is drinking again.
He
refuses to take his annual physical until after the election.
http://dailykos.com/story/2004/10/6/204615/743
----== Posted via Newsfeed.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
News==----
http://www.newsfeed.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >100,000
Newsgroups
---= 19 East/West-Coast Specialized Servers - Total Privacy via Encryption
=---
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| User: "Scott" |
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| Title: Re: BUSH IS DRINKING AGAIN - Refuses to take physical |
07 Oct 2004 10:02:10 PM |
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Jackie aka "Jake WK" <jakeyake@gimmejam.com> wrote in message
news:uAFmQf9CXg2cuJ06ZSD7ZSH7Lm9R@4ax.com...
Common knowledge in Washington DC is that George Bush is drinking again. He
refuses to take his annual physical until after the election.
http://dailykos.com/story/2004/10/6/204615/743
Jackie, is there some reason you're afraid to post in a political newsgroup?
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| User: "Doug Sorensen" |
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| Title: Re: BUSH IS DRINKING AGAIN - Refuses to take physical |
07 Oct 2004 10:21:47 PM |
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Jake WK <jakeyake@gimmejam.com> wrote in
news:uAFmQf9CXg2cuJ06ZSD7ZSH7Lm9R@4ax.com:
Common knowledge in Washington DC is that George Bush is drinking
again. He refuses to take his annual physical until after the
election.
http://dailykos.com/story/2004/10/6/204615/743
Common knowledge is that Kerry backers are pathetically desparate. I
thought the unfounded draft stuff was low. This is 18th century muck-
raker stuff.
Doug
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| User: "Trevor Zion Bauknight" |
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| Title: Re: BUSH IS DRINKING AGAIN - Refuses to take physical |
08 Oct 2004 10:10:12 AM |
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In article <Xns957BE37E4C940dougsorensencomcastn@204.127.204.17>,
Doug Sorensen <doug.NOSPAMsorensen@comcast.net> wrote:
Jake WK <jakeyake@gimmejam.com> wrote in
news:uAFmQf9CXg2cuJ06ZSD7ZSH7Lm9R@4ax.com:
Common knowledge in Washington DC is that George Bush is drinking
again. He refuses to take his annual physical until after the
election.
http://dailykos.com/story/2004/10/6/204615/743
Common knowledge is that Kerry backers are pathetically desparate. I
thought the unfounded draft stuff was low. This is 18th century muck-
raker stuff.
And if it's 18th Century, it has to be wrong...
--
Trev
"Every Democratic Senator is to the right of Kerry..including
Kucinich." - C. Beauchamp
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| User: "rander3127" |
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| Title: Re: RONGWAY RANDER: WRONGHEADED (was Re: ~DEAR AMERICA, I'M AN OIL SOLDIER. PLEASE HEAR ME~) |
07 Oct 2004 03:36:36 PM |
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On Thu, 07 Oct 2004 08:57:10 -0500, Jake WK <jakeyake@gimmejam.com>
wrote:
On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 14:50:56 -0400, rander3127 <rander3127@rogers.com> wrote:
On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 07:49:14 -0500, Jake WK <jakeyake@gimmejam.com>
wrote:
On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 23:24:35 -0400, rander3127 <rander3127@rogers.com> wrote:
Assuming it's real (we know the penchant Democratic supporters
have for fabrication) I'd say to the soldier;
"Too bad!" "I guess you never thought you'd actually have to DO
you job!"
If you think everything described in those letters is what the job of a U.S.
soldier is supposed to be....then you really are an amoral pig.
Ever put your own sorry ***** in harm's way for your country, you Canadian thug?
Certainly not, since you are unfit.
In case you didn't know it, as American citizens we have a sacred pact with
those honorable men and women who serve in our military---and we always have.
We ask them to defend us and be the first line of defense (note that word) to
protect this great nation and, in exchange, we have an obligation to never do so
needlessly or squander that service or their lives with disregard. The same
applies to Canadian forces who serve and protect their country to keep it safe
and free for the creeps like you who despise them and think they could ever get
paid enough to sacrifice their lives blithely or needlessly just because its "a
job".
Look idiot; Every time there is a war, some people will oppose it.
They may even think they have good reasons for opposing it.
But it doesn't change the fact that to fight is a soldier's job.
No one conscripted them, drafted them, they CHOSE that
profession.
They chose it with the understanding that they would not be engaged in combat by
their government needlessly or foolishly. They joined the U.S. Armed Forces;
they did not sign on as mercenaries. Ask any president of the United States or
any general who ever served if that is not supposed to be the case. Even the
ones who've misused and abuse it (like George Bush) will tell you that
officially.
And who is to decide that the combat they engage in is foolish, you?
Don't make me laugh. No one elected you, idiot.
.
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| User: "Jake WK" |
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| Title: Re: ~DEAR AMERICA, I'M AN OIL SOLDIER. PLEASE HEAR ME~ |
06 Oct 2004 03:17:55 PM |
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On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 14:50:56 -0400, rander3127 <rander3127@rogers.com> wrote:
On Wed, 06 Oct 2004 07:49:14 -0500, Jake WK <jakeyake@gimmejam.com>
wrote:
On Tue, 05 Oct 2004 23:24:35 -0400, rander3127 <rander3127@rogers.com> wrote:
Assuming it's real (we know the penchant Democratic supporters
have for fabrication) I'd say to the soldier;
"Too bad!" "I guess you never thought you'd actually have to DO
you job!"
If you think everything described in those letters is what the job of a U.S.
soldier is supposed to be....then you really are an amoral pig.
Ever put your own sorry ***** in harm's way for your country, you Canadian thug?
Certainly not, since you are unfit.
In case you didn't know it, as American citizens we have a sacred pact with
those honorable men and women who serve in our military---and we always have.
We ask them to defend us and be the first line of defense (note that word) to
protect this great nation and, in exchange, we have an obligation to never do so
needlessly or squander that service or their lives with disregard. The same
applies to Canadian forces who serve and protect their country to keep it safe
and free for the creeps like you who despise them and think they could ever get
paid enough to sacrifice their lives blithely or needlessly just because its "a
job".
Look idiot; Every time there is a war, some people will oppose it.
They may even think they have good reasons for opposing it.
But it doesn't change the fact that to fight is a soldier's job.
No one conscripted them, drafted them, they CHOSE that
profession.
They chose it with the understanding that they would not be engaged in combat by
their government needlessly or foolishly. They joined the U.S. Armed Forces;
they did not sign on as mercenaries. Ask any president of the United States or
any general who ever served if that is not supposed to be the case. Even the
ones who've misused and abuse it (like George Bush) will tell you that
officially.
And, like I said, you fucking gutless Canook----if you think everything
described in those letters constitutes what is supposed to the duty of a
soldier, including the shooting of civilians for mere suspicion and without
cause (which is an illegal order), then you're an even bigger amoral thug than
we thought you were. Defrauding the government of funds is also a crime.
Having actually served in the military (which I can tell you never have, you
scummy chickenhawk), I can attest firsthand to the fact that you are instructed
in basic training that a soldier should never obey an illegal order and, in
fact, it is their duty to report it. The truth, however, is that most in such
situations are afraid to report such illegal activities within the military for
fear of reprisal from their superiors.
Ever hear of the Nuremberg Trials, you little neo-Nazi? Well, their defense was
that they were just "following orders". Read up if you can muster a smidgen of
guts or a sliver of a spine:
http://usmilitary.about.com/cs/militarylaw1/a/obeyingorders.htm
That's reality. The other reality is that you're a pustule on the ***** of
humanity.
Jake
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| User: "Randolph M. Jones" |
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| Title: Re: ~DEAR AMERICA, I'M AN OIL SOLDIER. PLEASE HEAR ME~ |
06 Oct 2004 09:59:44 AM |
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T. Jefferson wrote:
It's hard listening to my platoon sergeant saying, "If you decide you
want to kill a civilian that looks threatening, shoot him. I'd rather
fill out paperwork than get one of my soldiers killed by some raghead."
We are taught that if someone even looks threatening we should do
something before they do something to us. I wasn't brought up in fear
like that, and it's going to take some getting used to.
If I were convinced these are real, I'd say something snarky here. But
I'm not.
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