In article <r-1108040519230001@192.168.1.100>,

In article <411998e0_1@news.iprimus.com.au>, "Peter Terry"
<mombassa@yahoo.com> wrote:

"Peter Terry" <mombassa@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4119924f_1@news.iprimus.com.au...

My point being that every Christian reformist
has stood forth and condemned the faith that he
or she is proposing to change. So did Hitler.

Furthermore take a look at the vicious character
assassination Jesus levied at Judaism. Matt 23

. Jesus/Yeshua was not criticising Judaism per se. He was merely
commenting on the religious authorities who controlled Judaism c. 25A.D.
Eventually, these same men would have him killed. The scribes and
Pharisees -- assassinated their own characters by their own deeds.

...

cheers, PeterT

Good posting, Jesus never criticized the Old Testament. Why would He, for
after all He wrote it.

Good posting, Jesus never criticized the Old Testament.

Good posting, Jesus never criticized the Old Testament.
Why would He, for after all He wrote it.

In article <r-1108040519230001@192.168.1.100>,

In article <411998e0_1@news.iprimus.com.au>, "Peter Terry"
<mombassa@yahoo.com> wrote:

"Peter Terry" <mombassa@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:4119924f_1@news.iprimus.com.au...

My point being that every Christian reformist
has stood forth and condemned the faith that he
or she is proposing to change. So did Hitler.

Furthermore take a look at the vicious character
assassination Jesus levied at Judaism. Matt 23

• Jesus/Yeshua was not criticising Judaism per se. He was merely
commenting on the religious authorities who controlled Judaism c. 25A.D.
Eventually, these same men would have him killed. The scribes and
Pharisees -- assassinated their own characters by their own deeds.

...

cheers, PeterT

Good posting,

Jesus never criticized the Old Testament. Why would He, for
after all He wrote it.

...

"Peter Terry" <mombassa@yahoo.com> wrote in message

"The Black Monk" <cherniymonakh@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c21219d5.0408110625.6f9da3a6@posting.google.com...

His overall statements speak for themselves (as do his life's works).

More political spin eh?

Consider.

Hitler's private notes show how the Bible influenced Hitler

http://www.nobeliefs.com/HitlerBible.htm

These were written before he got into politics, when he was in his
early 30's.

Quotes from Hitler's Henchmen and Nazi Sympathizers

http://www.nobeliefs.com/henchmen.htm

A lot mention of God, not much of Christ. But despite the wishes of
the compuiler of these quotes, truth seeps in. a quote from Rudolf
Hess:

"My father was really a bigot. He was very strict and fanatical. I
learned that my father took a religious oath at the time of the birth
of my younger sister, dedicating me to God and the priesthood, and
after that leading a Joseph married life [celibacy]. He directed my
entire youthful education toward the goal of making me a priest. I had
to pray and go to church endlessly, do penance over the slightest
misdeed-- praying as punishment for any little unkindness to my
sister, or something like that."

-Rudolf Hoess (Hitler's Elite, Shocking Profiles of the Reich's Most
Notorious Henchmen," Berkley Books, 1990)

It seems Rudolf Hess, who once claimed that Nazism was "applied
biology", was a bit rebellious towards his father's strict desire for
him to be, among other things, kind to others.

Another quote:

"We have a feeling that Germany has been transformed into a great
house of God, including all classes, professions and creeds, where the
Fuhrer as our mediator stood before the throne of the Almighty."

-Joseph Goebbels, in a broadcast, 19 April 1936

How is the above quote Christian?

Hitler compared to God/Jesus/Christians

http://www.nobeliefs.com/hitlerchristian.htm

From this section:

"Belief in Jesus serves as the only requirement for membership into
the Christian community. Christianity does not require adhering to Old
Testament laws or membership to any Church or abstaining from evil
deeds. One need only have faith in Jesus for its justification,
period.

Although Hitler did not attend church regularly and later criticized
the Church for their rejection of his reformation of a unified German
Church, at no time did Hitler criticize God or Jesus. He always
maintained an honor and belief in Jesus. This alone put him as a
Christian believer. But Hitler went beyond just belief in Jesus; he
devoted his entire political life to deeds aimed at creating a race of
people in the pure image of God."

The author here presents a *false* idea of Christianity - that one
need only claim belief in Jesus to be a Christian. This is an idea
taken from protestantism (along with a relentlessly literal
interpretation of the Bible) and presented incorrectly as fact. To
the extent that Hitler was a "Christian", he felt that Christ was a
Nietzschean super-man, an Aryan, a destroyer. He wanted to get rid of
the humility in Christianity in favor of some "super-human" heroism
and power-projection. How Christian is that?

The Christianity of Hitler revealed in his speeches and proclamations

http://www.nobeliefs.com/speeches.htm

Again, Hitler invoking the name of Christ for his un-Christian deeds
does not mean he is a Christian.

The relationship between Hitler and Christianity was outlined by the
Vatican itself in 1937:

http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Pius11/P11BRENN.HTM

Highlights:

7. Take care, Venerable Brethren, that above all, faith in God, the
first and irreplaceable foundation of all religion, be preserved in
Germany pure and unstained. THE BELIEVER IN GOD IS NOT HE WHO UTTERS
THE NAME IN HIS SPEECH, but he for whom this sacred word stands for a
true and worthy concept of the Divinity. Whoever identifies, by
pantheistic confusion, God and the universe, by either lowering God to
the dimensions of the world, or raising the world to the dimensions of
God, is not a believer in God. Whoever follows that so-called
pre-Christian Germanic conception of substituting a dark and
impersonal destiny for the personal God, denies thereby the Wisdom and
Providence of God who "Reacheth from end to end mightily, and ordereth
all things sweetly" (Wisdom viii. 1). Neither is he a believer in God.

8. Whoever exalts race, or the people, or the State, or a particular
form of State, or the depositories of power, or any other fundamental
value of the human community -- however necessary and honorable be
their function in worldly things -- whoever raises these notions above
their standard value and divinizes them to an idolatrous level,
distorts and perverts an order of the world planned and created by
God; he is far from the true faith in God and from the concept of life
which that faith upholds.

9. Beware, Venerable Brethren, of that growing abuse, in speech as in
writing, of the name of God as though it were a meaningless label, to
be affixed to any creation, more or less arbitrary, of human
speculation. Use your influence on the Faithful, that they refuse to
yield to this aberration. Our God is the Personal God, supernatural,
omnipotent, infinitely perfect, one in the Trinity of Persons,
tri-personal in the unity of divine essence, the Creator of all
existence. Lord, King and ultimate Consummator of the history of the
world, who will not, and cannot, tolerate a rival God by His side.

10. This God, this Sovereign Master, has issued commandments whose
value is independent of time and space, country and race. As God's sun
shines on every human face so His law knows neither privilege nor
exception. Rulers and subjects, crowned and uncrowned, rich and poor
are equally subject to His word. From the fullness of the Creators'
right there naturally arises the fullness of His right to be obeyed by
individuals and communities, whoever they are. This obedience
permeates all branches of activity in which moral values claim harmony
with the law of God, and pervades all integration of the ever-changing
laws of man into the immutable laws of God.

11. None but superficial minds could stumble into concepts of a
national God, of a national religion; or attempt to lock within the
frontiers of a single people, within the narrow limits of a single
race, God, the Creator of the universe, King and Legislator of all
nations before whose immensity they are "as a drop of a bucket"
(Isaiah xI, 15).

27. Humility in the spirit of the Gospel and prayer for the assistance
of grace are perfectly compatible with self-confidence and heroism.
The Church of Christ, which throughout the ages and to the present day
numbers more confessors and voluntary martyrs than any other moral
collectivity, needs lessons from no one in heroism of feeling and
action. The odious pride of reformers only covers itself with ridicule
when it rails at Christian humility as though it were but a cowardly
pose of self-degradation.

33. Thousands of voices ring into your ears a Gospel which has not
been revealed by the Father of Heaven. Thousands of pens are wielded
in the service of a Christianity, which is not of Christ. Press and
wireless daily force on you productions hostile to the Faith and to
the Church, impudently aggressive against whatever you should hold
venerable and sacred. Many of you, clinging to your Faith and to your
Church, as a result of your affiliation with religious associations
guaranteed by the concordat, have often to face the tragic trial of
seeing your loyalty to your country misunderstood, suspected, or even
denied, and of being hurt in your professional and social life. We are
well aware that there is many a humble soldier of Christ in your
ranks, who with torn feelings, but a determined heart, accepts his
fate, finding his one consolation in the thought of suffering insults
for the name of Jesus (Acts v. 41). Today, as We see you threatened
with new dangers and new molestations, We say to you: If any one
should preach to you a Gospel other than the one you received on the
knees of a pious mother, from the lips of a believing father, or
through teaching faithful to God and His Church, "let him be anathema"
(Gal. i. 9). If the State organizes a national youth, and makes this
organization obligatory to all, then, without prejudice to rights of
religious associations, it is the absolute right of youths as well as
of parents to see to it that this organization is purged of all
manifestations hostile to the Church and Christianity. These
manifestations are even today placing Christian parents in a painful
alternative, as they cannot give to the State what they owe to God
alone.

It is clear from the above that, whatever Hitler's lying words, the
Church saw itself as being threatened and it saw the Nazi regime as
evil, un-Christian, etc.

BM

Hitler's Christianity

http://www.nobeliefs.com/Hitler1.htm


PeterT