| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"martus" |
| Date: |
18 Nov 2006 08:06:29 PM |
| Object: |
Demons in the house! |
Devout Christians flocking to French church after 'sightings' of Jesus
17.11.06
Add your view
Devout Christians are flocking to a church on the French riviera where
both Jesus and the Virgin Mary are said to have appeared to
worshippers.
The holy 'visions' are being taken so seriously they are being
investigated by a French Bishop and the Pope has been informed.
But the signs that a divine presence is in the room are not the
traditional dazzling lights or gentle breeze. Instead, the chosen ones
are suffering vomiting and convulsions more akin to scenes from The
Exorcist.
The so-called apparitions are taking place during meetings of the
Cap-Verdi prayer group at St Paul's Catholic Church in the glitzy Cote
d'Azur resort of Cannes. Believers say that Christ and the Virgin Mary
have been appearing to them on a regular basis over the past six
months.
Church-goer Rita Gomez, who helps run the prayer group, said: "The
visions usually begin with the whole building trembling in the middle
of a prayer meeting.
"Then various worshippers will fall off their seats shaking violently
or being sick. When they come round a few minutes later, they say
Christ or the Holy Virgin has appeared and spoken to them."
One 14-year-old girl had fits and began smashing windows, then began
bleeding 'pinkish-yellow' blood, Miss Gomez said.
She added: "This might sound like the work of the devil rather than
God, but everyone who experiences a vision says it was Jesus and Mary
that appeared to them."
Worshipper Emmanuel Duchamp, 38, said he saw Christ 'standing before
him' in the church.
He added: "I wasn't ill, but I was overcome with a very warm feeling.
Then Jesus started talking and I began writing down everything he told
me. It was about cleaning my house and cleaning the homes of others to
prepare for the coming of the Lord."
Father Paul Fazzi, the parish priest of St Paul's, insisted there was
nothing extreme or 'cultish' about the Cap Verdi prayer group.
He said: "They are just a group of devout young people who come here
each week to pray. There has never been any strange business going on
that has ever given us cause for concern.
"We are keeping an open mind until we find out more, but all those who
have had experiences are very shaken by them and insist they are real."
Since news of the visions had spread over the past months, his Sunday
congregations had doubled and scores of new religious devotees had been
visiting the church each week in the hope of having an apparition of
their own, Father Fazzi said.
Bishop of Nice Monseigneur Louis Sankale sent his deputy, Father
Stephane Drillon, to investigate the phenomena at St Paul's.
A spokesman for the Bishop said a letter had also been sent to the
Vatican informing church leaders of the events in Cannes, adding: "We
are taking no official view at present on the veracity of what is going
on at St Paul's, but it has roused enough interest for us to send
someone to find out more.
The bishop's envoy Father Drillon said: "We are taking detailed
statements from everyone who claims to have experienced anything. On
the surface there appears to be something exceptional going on at St
Paul's Church, but we need to dig deeper to investigate the
authenticity of this.
"The church never dismisses these kinds of claims out of hand, but it
is our policy to remain prudent."
The last apparition of the Virgin Mary officially acknowledged by the
Vatican is also said to have taken place in France.
The mother of Jesus is said to have appeared to 14-year-old farmer's
daughter Bernadette Soubirous in February 1858 in a mountain grotto in
the Pyrenees mountain town of Lourdes. The shrine, whose waters are
said to have miraculous healing powers, now attracts five milion
visitors a year.
______________________________________________________________________________
Luke 9
37The next day, when they came down from the mountain, a large crowd
met him. 38A man in the crowd called out, "Teacher, I beg you to look
at my son, for he is my only child. 39A spirit seizes him and he
suddenly screams; it throws him into convulsions so that he foams at
the mouth. It scarcely ever leaves him and is destroying him. 40I
begged your disciples to drive it out, but they could not."
41"O unbelieving and perverse generation," Jesus replied, "how long
shall I stay with you and put up with you? Bring your son here."
42Even while the boy was coming, the demon threw him to the ground in
a convulsion. But Jesus rebuked the evil[b] spirit, healed the boy and
gave him back to his father. 43And they were all amazed at the
greatness of God.
While everyone was marveling at all that Jesus did, he said to his
disciples, 44"Listen carefully to what I am about to tell you: The Son
of Man is going to be betrayed into the hands of men." 45But they did
not understand what this meant. It was hidden from them, so that they
did not grasp it, and they were afraid to ask him about it.
2 Peter 2
21It would have been better for them not to have known the way of
righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on
the sacred command that was passed on to them. 22Of them the proverbs
are true: "A dog returns to its vomit,"and, "A sow that is washed goes
back to her wallowing in the mud."
End times:
http://mart1963.tripod.com/docs/16-SATAN.html
.
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| User: "Concorde" |
|
| Title: Re: Demons in the house! |
19 Nov 2006 03:35:13 PM |
|
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In article <1163901988.896768.79030@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
"martus" <marttila69@hotmail.com> wrote:
The mother of Jesus is said to have appeared to 14-year-old farmer's
daughter Bernadette Soubirous in February 1858 in a mountain grotto in
the Pyrenees mountain town of Lourdes. The shrine, whose waters are
said to have miraculous healing powers, now attracts five milion
visitors a year.
You seem to be saying that here aren't a heck of a lot of virgins left
So, on that basis, it is small wonder they flocked to see one.
Next time O.L. turns up maybe they could settle a few arguements by taking
a hymen photo.
Then Christianity could move on to saner pursuits.
:-)
.
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| User: "Bill M" |
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| Title: Re: Demons in the house! |
19 Nov 2006 03:13:44 PM |
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This god must be some kind of magician!
"martus" <marttila69@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1163901988.896768.79030@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Devout Christians flocking to French church after 'sightings' of Jesus
17.11.06
Add your view
Devout Christians are flocking to a church on the French riviera where
both Jesus and the Virgin Mary are said to have appeared to
worshippers.
The holy 'visions' are being taken so seriously they are being
investigated by a French Bishop and the Pope has been informed.
But the signs that a divine presence is in the room are not the
traditional dazzling lights or gentle breeze. Instead, the chosen ones
are suffering vomiting and convulsions more akin to scenes from The
Exorcist.
The so-called apparitions are taking place during meetings of the
Cap-Verdi prayer group at St Paul's Catholic Church in the glitzy Cote
d'Azur resort of Cannes. Believers say that Christ and the Virgin Mary
have been appearing to them on a regular basis over the past six
months.
Church-goer Rita Gomez, who helps run the prayer group, said: "The
visions usually begin with the whole building trembling in the middle
of a prayer meeting.
"Then various worshippers will fall off their seats shaking violently
or being sick. When they come round a few minutes later, they say
Christ or the Holy Virgin has appeared and spoken to them."
One 14-year-old girl had fits and began smashing windows, then began
bleeding 'pinkish-yellow' blood, Miss Gomez said.
She added: "This might sound like the work of the devil rather than
God, but everyone who experiences a vision says it was Jesus and Mary
that appeared to them."
Worshipper Emmanuel Duchamp, 38, said he saw Christ 'standing before
him' in the church.
He added: "I wasn't ill, but I was overcome with a very warm feeling.
Then Jesus started talking and I began writing down everything he told
me. It was about cleaning my house and cleaning the homes of others to
prepare for the coming of the Lord."
Father Paul Fazzi, the parish priest of St Paul's, insisted there was
nothing extreme or 'cultish' about the Cap Verdi prayer group.
He said: "They are just a group of devout young people who come here
each week to pray. There has never been any strange business going on
that has ever given us cause for concern.
"We are keeping an open mind until we find out more, but all those who
have had experiences are very shaken by them and insist they are real."
Since news of the visions had spread over the past months, his Sunday
congregations had doubled and scores of new religious devotees had been
visiting the church each week in the hope of having an apparition of
their own, Father Fazzi said.
Bishop of Nice Monseigneur Louis Sankale sent his deputy, Father
Stephane Drillon, to investigate the phenomena at St Paul's.
A spokesman for the Bishop said a letter had also been sent to the
Vatican informing church leaders of the events in Cannes, adding: "We
are taking no official view at present on the veracity of what is going
on at St Paul's, but it has roused enough interest for us to send
someone to find out more.
The bishop's envoy Father Drillon said: "We are taking detailed
statements from everyone who claims to have experienced anything. On
the surface there appears to be something exceptional going on at St
Paul's Church, but we need to dig deeper to investigate the
authenticity of this.
"The church never dismisses these kinds of claims out of hand, but it
is our policy to remain prudent."
The last apparition of the Virgin Mary officially acknowledged by the
Vatican is also said to have taken place in France.
The mother of Jesus is said to have appeared to 14-year-old farmer's
daughter Bernadette Soubirous in February 1858 in a mountain grotto in
the Pyrenees mountain town of Lourdes. The shrine, whose waters are
said to have miraculous healing powers, now attracts five milion
visitors a year.
______________________________________________________________________________
Luke 9
37The next day, when they came down from the mountain, a large crowd
met him. 38A man in the crowd called out, "Teacher, I beg you to look
at my son, for he is my only child. 39A spirit seizes him and he
suddenly screams; it throws him into convulsions so that he foams at
the mouth. It scarcely ever leaves him and is destroying him. 40I
begged your disciples to drive it out, but they could not."
41"O unbelieving and perverse generation," Jesus replied, "how long
shall I stay with you and put up with you? Bring your son here."
42Even while the boy was coming, the demon threw him to the ground in
a convulsion. But Jesus rebuked the evil[b] spirit, healed the boy and
gave him back to his father. 43And they were all amazed at the
greatness of God.
While everyone was marveling at all that Jesus did, he said to his
disciples, 44"Listen carefully to what I am about to tell you: The Son
of Man is going to be betrayed into the hands of men." 45But they did
not understand what this meant. It was hidden from them, so that they
did not grasp it, and they were afraid to ask him about it.
2 Peter 2
21It would have been better for them not to have known the way of
righteousness, than to have known it and then to turn their backs on
the sacred command that was passed on to them. 22Of them the proverbs
are true: "A dog returns to its vomit,"and, "A sow that is washed goes
back to her wallowing in the mud."
End times:
http://mart1963.tripod.com/docs/16-SATAN.html
.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Who does go to hell? |
18 Nov 2006 09:09:01 PM |
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Who does go to hell?
Many people don't believe in hell at all. Non-Christian faiths have
their own take, of course. Judaism, the religion that birthed
Christianity, teaches of the eternal nature of the soul, a divine
judgment, and a mostly undefined "World to Come." But specifics are
left up to God.
Islam is more like Christianity, with concrete traditions of paradise
and hell. Who ends up where is a matter of how well the person
submitted to God's will while alive. Hindus and Buddhists believe in
karma and reincarnation, so the evil done in one life is atoned for
down the road - a road on earth.
Modern Christianity has many answers to who goes to hell. On the one
extreme are universalists who say that a loving God could leave nobody
in eternal torment. On the other are strict Calvinists who say that God
picked a small elect for paradise before the world was created, and
everyone else is simply stuck in the Handbasket to Hard Times.
The Christian discussion generally starts with this passage from the
Gospel of John: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes
to the Father except through me."
But how does Jesus decide who he'll take to the father - and who he
won't? Not every Christian claims to have a straight answer.
Former U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft fielded the question on
Comedy Central's Daily Show last month. Host Jon Stewart, who is
Jewish, jokingly asked Mr. Ashcroft to take a bet on the baseball
playoffs: If St. Louis won, Mr. Stewart would send him a Mets T-shirt.
If the Mets won, Mr. Ashcroft would get Mr. Stewart into heaven.
Mr. Ashcroft, famously a member of the conservative Assemblies of God,
laughed. Human beings don't have the job of deciding who goes where, he
suggested.
"You know, my dad was a preacher," he said. "He said he was in sales,
not in management."
Let's make the question concrete, with two examples that theologians
actually chew over:
Imagine a man who grows up alone on an island and has never heard of
Jesus. When he dies, does he go to hell?
Or consider Mahatma Mohandas Gandhi. He was saintly, but not a
Christian. (He was once quoted as saying, "I like your Christ, I do not
like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.")
_________________________________________________________________________
No one will get to heaven except through Jesus and for those who have
not heard of Jesus scripture says that their consciences will either
declare them guilty or innocent.
Romans2
7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and
immortality, he will give eternal life. 8But for those who are
self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be
wrath and anger. 9There will be trouble and distress for every human
being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10but
glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew,
then for the Gentile. 11For God does not show favoritism.
12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law,
and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is
not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is
those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when
Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the
law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the
law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on
their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their
thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place
on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as
my gospel declares.
End times:
http://mart1963.tripod.com/docs/16-SATAN.html
.
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| User: "Cipher" |
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| Title: Re: Who does go to hell? |
18 Nov 2006 09:11:59 PM |
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wrote in news:1163905741.216308.151400
@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Who does go to hell?
Nobody.
.
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| User: "James" |
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| Title: Re: Who does go to hell? (b) |
30 Dec 2006 10:14:49 AM |
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Cipher <oh@void.net>
Re: Who does go to hell?
marttila69@hotmail.com wrote in news:1163905741.216308.151400
@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:
Who does go to hell?
Nobody.
Hello,
The Bible would disagree with you. The Bible's "hell" is the common
grave of dead mankind, thus when a person dies, they go to "hell"
awaiting a resurrection. (see Acts 24:15)
It is taken from the Hebrew word "sheol" and the Greek word "hades".
And it means the common grave of dead mankind. For example, the World
Book Encyclopedia under "hell" says,
"In Old Testament times, the Israelites believed that all the dead,
both good and evil, went to a dark, unhappy place called Sheol."
That is why the righteous man Job wanted to END his suffering by going
to hell. (dying, going to the grave) Job 14:13,
"O that thou wouldest hide me in the grave, [sheol; hell] that thou
wouldest keep me secret, until thy wrath be past, that thou wouldest
appoint me a set time, and remember me!" (KJV) [brackets mine]
Obviously, if "hell" was a literal hot and painful place, that is the
last place that Job would want to go to. But he knew from God's word
that it was cold and silent; the grave. And notice that the KJV
correctly translated the word "sheol" to mean what it really does; the
grave.
The Hebrew word "sheol" (hell) is also found at Ps 16:10,
"For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell [sheol]; neither wilt thou
suffer thine Holy One to see corruption." (KJV) [brackets mine]
Yes, Jesus was in "hell" for 3 days because he was in his grave for 3
days. Mt 12:40,
"For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge
fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the
heart of the earth." (NIV)
And when the apostle Peter quoted Ps 16:10 at Ac 2:31, he just showed
the Greek word that was equivalent to the Hebrew word "sheol". It was
the Greek word "hades". Thus if "sheol" referred to a place where "all
the dead, both good and evil, went to a dark, unhappy place", then
"hades" represented that same place, since the Bible says that all
Scripture is inspired of God. (2 Ti 3:16)
This is the Bible's view of "hell". It may not agree with many
people's view if it, but according to Jesus, it is the truth. Joh
17:17,
"Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth." (NIV)
Sincerely, James
***********************************
Want a FREE home Bible study?
Have Jehovah's Witnesses questions?
Go to the authorized source:
http://www.watchtower.org
***********************************
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Who does go to hell? (b) |
30 Dec 2006 10:52:39 AM |
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On Sat, 30 Dec 2006 11:14:49 -0500, James <bireda@allvantage.com> wrote:
"In Old Testament times, the Israelites believed that all the dead,
both good and evil, went to a dark, unhappy place called Sheol."
We're in the New Testament times now.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "David Morgan \MAMS" |
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| Title: Re: Who does go to hell? |
18 Nov 2006 09:38:59 PM |
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Who does go to hell?
No one. Hell is a man-made figment of imagination. It helps to
contol the people by using fear.
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Who does go to hell? |
19 Nov 2006 07:32:26 AM |
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On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 03:38:59 GMT, "David Morgan \(MAMS\)"
<mams@NOSPAm-a-m-s.com> wrote:
Who does go to hell?
No one. Hell is a man-made figment of imagination. It helps to
contol the people by using fear.
Have you made out your will yet?
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
.
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| User: "James" |
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| Title: Re: Who does go to hell? |
30 Dec 2006 10:04:24 AM |
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marttila69@hotmail.com
Re: Who does go to hell?
Who does go to hell?
Hello,
The Bible does answer your question.
Many people don't believe in hell at all. Non-Christian faiths have
their own take, of course. Judaism, the religion that birthed
Christianity, teaches of the eternal nature of the soul,
Actually, the Bible does not teach of an 'immoral' soul. The Bible
tells us a "soul" can die, thus it is not immortal. Eze 18:4,
"Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the
soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die." (KJV)
a divine
judgment, and a mostly undefined "World to Come." But specifics are
left up to God.
Islam is more like Christianity, with concrete traditions of paradise
and hell. Who ends up where is a matter of how well the person
submitted to God's will while alive. Hindus and Buddhists believe in
karma and reincarnation, so the evil done in one life is atoned for
down the road - a road on earth.
Modern Christianity has many answers to who goes to hell. On the one
extreme are universalists who say that a loving God could leave nobody
in eternal torment. On the other are strict Calvinists who say that God
picked a small elect for paradise before the world was created, and
everyone else is simply stuck in the Handbasket to Hard Times.
The Christian discussion generally starts with this passage from the
Gospel of John: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes
to the Father except through me."
But how does Jesus decide who he'll take to the father - and who he
won't? Not every Christian claims to have a straight answer.
But the Bible does. Jesus said it very simply at 1 Jo 2:17,
"The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of
God lives forever." (NIV)
Notice the condition needed to get to live forever (be accepted by
God), "the man who does the will of God". And today we can find God's
will in the Bible. So those who go by the Bible's teachings are those
who will live forever.
And there is one more thing we can extract from this verse. The
'hellfire' teaching of Christendom claims that bad people will burn in
a literal fire forever. Thus according to them, they are 'living
forever', just not under ideal conditions. But Jesus said otherwise at
the above Scripture. He said the one's that get to live forever are
the ones that obey God's word. Thus the opposite would occur for those
who do not obey God's word; ie, that they do not get to live forever.
Former U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft fielded the question on
Comedy Central's Daily Show last month. Host Jon Stewart, who is
Jewish, jokingly asked Mr. Ashcroft to take a bet on the baseball
playoffs: If St. Louis won, Mr. Stewart would send him a Mets T-shirt.
If the Mets won, Mr. Ashcroft would get Mr. Stewart into heaven.
Mr. Ashcroft, famously a member of the conservative Assemblies of God,
laughed. Human beings don't have the job of deciding who goes where, he
suggested.
"You know, my dad was a preacher," he said. "He said he was in sales,
not in management."
Let's make the question concrete, with two examples that theologians
actually chew over:
Imagine a man who grows up alone on an island and has never heard of
Jesus. When he dies, does he go to hell?
The Bible "hell" is the common grave of mankind. It is taken from the
Hebrew word "sheol" and the corresponding Greek word "hades". For
example, the suffering Job wanted to go to HELL (the grave) to get
relief from his suffering, not add to it. Job 14:13,
"Who will grant me this, that thou mayst protect me in hell [sheol],
and hide me till thy wrath pass, and appoint me a time when thou wilt
remember me?" (Douay) (brackets mine)
Yes, your deserted island man went to "hell" (the grave) when he died
like most all mankind goes. And his hope is that God will later
resurrect him. Ac 24:15,
"and I have the same hope in God as these men, that there will be a
resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked." (NIV)
Or consider Mahatma Mohandas Gandhi. He was saintly, but not a
Christian. (He was once quoted as saying, "I like your Christ, I do not
like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.")
The same situation occurs for him as for your island man, since the
resurrection will be of both the good and the bad.
_________________________________________________________________________
No one will get to heaven except through Jesus and for those who have
not heard of Jesus scripture says that their consciences will either
declare them guilty or innocent.
Romans2
7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and
immortality, he will give eternal life. 8But for those who are
self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be
wrath and anger. 9There will be trouble and distress for every human
being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10but
glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew,
then for the Gentile. 11For God does not show favoritism.
12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law,
and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is
not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is
those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when
Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the
law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the
law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on
their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their
thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place
on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as
my gospel declares.
Paul was telling us here, that just because people in some places were
not under any direct laws from God (such as the ancient Jews who were
under the Mosaic Laws), God still holds people accountable because of
the God-given CONSCIENCE He placed in them. Thus they are not excused
for bad conduct by pleading ignorance of God's laws. (even in todays
legal justice system, ignorance of the law is not an accepted excuse)
But when such ones die, the act of dying REMOVES all sin, so that when
they are resurrected, God will not judge them on their past sins, but
rather what they will do FROM THEN ON. Ro 6:7,23,
"7 because anyone who has died has been freed from sin. 23 For the
wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ
Jesus our Lord." (NIV)
Yes, death itself makes a person "freed from sin". So all humans who
have died, both good and bad, will get a second chance to prove
themselves worthy to God.
These are the Bible's teachings, thus according to Jesus, they are the
truth. Joh 17:17,
"Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth." (NIV)
Sincerely, James
***********************************
Want a FREE home Bible study?
Have Jehovah's Witnesses questions?
Go to the authorized source:
http://www.watchtower.org
***********************************
End times:
http://mart1963.tripod.com/docs/16-SATAN.html
.
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| User: "Bill M" |
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| Title: Re: Who does go to hell? |
30 Dec 2006 01:01:58 PM |
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More biblical nonsense!
"James" <bireda@allvantage.com> wrote in message
news:1g3dp299149dq9f2kti08dc1tlb43e2027@4ax.com...
marttila69@hotmail.com
Re: Who does go to hell?
Who does go to hell?
Hello,
The Bible does answer your question.
Many people don't believe in hell at all. Non-Christian faiths have
their own take, of course. Judaism, the religion that birthed
Christianity, teaches of the eternal nature of the soul,
Actually, the Bible does not teach of an 'immoral' soul. The Bible
tells us a "soul" can die, thus it is not immortal. Eze 18:4,
"Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the
soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die." (KJV)
a divine
judgment, and a mostly undefined "World to Come." But specifics are
left up to God.
Islam is more like Christianity, with concrete traditions of paradise
and hell. Who ends up where is a matter of how well the person
submitted to God's will while alive. Hindus and Buddhists believe in
karma and reincarnation, so the evil done in one life is atoned for
down the road - a road on earth.
Modern Christianity has many answers to who goes to hell. On the one
extreme are universalists who say that a loving God could leave nobody
in eternal torment. On the other are strict Calvinists who say that God
picked a small elect for paradise before the world was created, and
everyone else is simply stuck in the Handbasket to Hard Times.
The Christian discussion generally starts with this passage from the
Gospel of John: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes
to the Father except through me."
But how does Jesus decide who he'll take to the father - and who he
won't? Not every Christian claims to have a straight answer.
But the Bible does. Jesus said it very simply at 1 Jo 2:17,
"The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of
God lives forever." (NIV)
Notice the condition needed to get to live forever (be accepted by
God), "the man who does the will of God". And today we can find God's
will in the Bible. So those who go by the Bible's teachings are those
who will live forever.
And there is one more thing we can extract from this verse. The
'hellfire' teaching of Christendom claims that bad people will burn in
a literal fire forever. Thus according to them, they are 'living
forever', just not under ideal conditions. But Jesus said otherwise at
the above Scripture. He said the one's that get to live forever are
the ones that obey God's word. Thus the opposite would occur for those
who do not obey God's word; ie, that they do not get to live forever.
Former U.S. Attorney General John Ashcroft fielded the question on
Comedy Central's Daily Show last month. Host Jon Stewart, who is
Jewish, jokingly asked Mr. Ashcroft to take a bet on the baseball
playoffs: If St. Louis won, Mr. Stewart would send him a Mets T-shirt.
If the Mets won, Mr. Ashcroft would get Mr. Stewart into heaven.
Mr. Ashcroft, famously a member of the conservative Assemblies of God,
laughed. Human beings don't have the job of deciding who goes where, he
suggested.
"You know, my dad was a preacher," he said. "He said he was in sales,
not in management."
Let's make the question concrete, with two examples that theologians
actually chew over:
Imagine a man who grows up alone on an island and has never heard of
Jesus. When he dies, does he go to hell?
The Bible "hell" is the common grave of mankind. It is taken from the
Hebrew word "sheol" and the corresponding Greek word "hades". For
example, the suffering Job wanted to go to HELL (the grave) to get
relief from his suffering, not add to it. Job 14:13,
"Who will grant me this, that thou mayst protect me in hell [sheol],
and hide me till thy wrath pass, and appoint me a time when thou wilt
remember me?" (Douay) (brackets mine)
Yes, your deserted island man went to "hell" (the grave) when he died
like most all mankind goes. And his hope is that God will later
resurrect him. Ac 24:15,
"and I have the same hope in God as these men, that there will be a
resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked." (NIV)
Or consider Mahatma Mohandas Gandhi. He was saintly, but not a
Christian. (He was once quoted as saying, "I like your Christ, I do not
like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.")
The same situation occurs for him as for your island man, since the
resurrection will be of both the good and the bad.
_________________________________________________________________________
No one will get to heaven except through Jesus and for those who have
not heard of Jesus scripture says that their consciences will either
declare them guilty or innocent.
Romans2
7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and
immortality, he will give eternal life. 8But for those who are
self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be
wrath and anger. 9There will be trouble and distress for every human
being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10but
glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew,
then for the Gentile. 11For God does not show favoritism.
12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law,
and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is
not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is
those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when
Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the
law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the
law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on
their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their
thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place
on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as
my gospel declares.
Paul was telling us here, that just because people in some places were
not under any direct laws from God (such as the ancient Jews who were
under the Mosaic Laws), God still holds people accountable because of
the God-given CONSCIENCE He placed in them. Thus they are not excused
for bad conduct by pleading ignorance of God's laws. (even in todays
legal justice system, ignorance of the law is not an accepted excuse)
But when such ones die, the act of dying REMOVES all sin, so that when
they are resurrected, God will not judge them on their past sins, but
rather what they will do FROM THEN ON. Ro 6:7,23,
"7 because anyone who has died has been freed from sin. 23 For the
wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ
Jesus our Lord." (NIV)
Yes, death itself makes a person "freed from sin". So all humans who
have died, both good and bad, will get a second chance to prove
themselves worthy to God.
These are the Bible's teachings, thus according to Jesus, they are the
truth. Joh 17:17,
"Sanctify them by the truth; your word is truth." (NIV)
Sincerely, James
***********************************
Want a FREE home Bible study?
Have Jehovah's Witnesses questions?
Go to the authorized source:
http://www.watchtower.org
***********************************
End times:
http://mart1963.tripod.com/docs/16-SATAN.html
.
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| User: "Peace Crusader" |
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| Title: Re: Who does go to hell? |
19 Nov 2006 03:52:16 AM |
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Dear Martila69 and my Fellowmen,
marttila69@hotmail.com wrote:
Who does go to hell?
My reply:
Please read what the Holy Spirit said about those in Heaven and in Hell
in the post entitled "How is it like in Heaven? In Hell?" in
alt.religion.christian.
The peace of the true God be with us now and always.
With love, your brother in Jesus,
Aristeo Canlas Fernando, Peace Crusader and Echo
Motto: pro aris et focis
http://www.geocities.com/peacecrusader888/
"The Internet is mightier than the sword."
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| User: "Concorde" |
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| Title: Re: Who does go to hell? |
19 Nov 2006 03:40:21 PM |
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In article <1163905741.216308.151400@h54g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
marttila69@hotmail.com wrote:
Who does go to hell?
Maybe JW or Wolfie could ring us from there and let us know
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Who does go to hell? |
26 Dec 2006 02:31:02 AM |
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On 18 Nov 2006 19:09:01 -0800, wrote:
Who does go to hell?
Many people don't believe in hell at all. Non-Christian faiths have
their own take, of course. Judaism, the religion that birthed
Christianity, teaches of the eternal nature of the soul, a divine
judgment, and a mostly undefined "World to Come." But specifics are
Jews will all go to hell because they killed Jesus. Jews are
condemned to hell before birth. Jews are all evil demons that come
directly from hell, and only enter earth to drag others to hell with
them.
.
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| User: "Brad Filippone" |
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| Title: Re: Who does go to hell? |
27 Dec 2006 05:30:23 AM |
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wrote:
: On 18 Nov 2006 19:09:01 -0800, wrote:
: >Who does go to hell?
: >
: >Many people don't believe in hell at all. Non-Christian faiths have
: >their own take, of course. Judaism, the religion that birthed
: >Christianity, teaches of the eternal nature of the soul, a divine
: >judgment, and a mostly undefined "World to Come." But specifics are
: Jews will all go to hell because they killed Jesus. Jews are
: condemned to hell before birth. Jews are all evil demons that come
: directly from hell, and only enter earth to drag others to hell with
: them.
And your religion rose from the Jews. What does that make you? :)
Brad
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| User: "•R L Measures" |
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| Title: Re: Who does go to hell? |
27 Dec 2006 06:43:35 AM |
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In article <emtlgf$haq$14@Kil-nws-1.UCIS.Dal.Ca>,
(Brad Filippone) wrote:
me@my.com wrote:
: On 18 Nov 2006 19:09:01 -0800, wrote:
: >Who does go to hell?
: >
: >Many people don't believe in hell at all. Non-Christian faiths have
: >their own take, of course. Judaism, the religion that birthed
: >Christianity, teaches of the eternal nature of the soul, a divine
: >judgment, and a mostly undefined "World to Come." But specifics are
: Jews will all go to hell because they killed Jesus. Jews are
: condemned to hell before birth. Jews are all evil demons that come
: directly from hell, and only enter earth to drag others to hell with
: them.
And your religion rose from the Jews. What does that make you? :)
Brad
• chortle. However, modern Christianity is largely a Roman invention
that is loosely based on the teaching of a rabbi from Judea.
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| User: "Father Haskell" |
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| Title: Re: Who does go to hell? |
26 Dec 2006 04:31:36 PM |
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wrote:
On 18 Nov 2006 19:09:01 -0800, wrote:
Who does go to hell?
Many people don't believe in hell at all. Non-Christian faiths have
their own take, of course. Judaism, the religion that birthed
Christianity, teaches of the eternal nature of the soul, a divine
judgment, and a mostly undefined "World to Come." But specifics are
Jews will all go to hell because they killed Jesus.
Which means you owe them.
Jews are
condemned to hell before birth. Jews are all evil demons that come
directly from hell, and only enter earth to drag others to hell with
them.
.
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| User: "suneejan" |
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| Title: Re: Who does go to hell? |
26 Dec 2006 07:59:55 AM |
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wrote:
On 18 Nov 2006 19:09:01 -0800, wrote:
Who does go to hell?
Many people don't believe in hell at all. Non-Christian faiths have
their own take, of course. Judaism, the religion that birthed
Christianity, teaches of the eternal nature of the soul, a divine
judgment, and a mostly undefined "World to Come." But specifics are
Jews will all go to hell because they killed Jesus. Jews are
condemned to hell before birth. Jews are all evil demons that come
directly from hell, and only enter earth to drag others to hell with
them.
The Jews are not demons. In fact, Jesus was a jew. God allowed the
cricifixion of Christ so thhat Jesus could pay the penalty of people's
sin ....Romans 6:23. T jewish leaders at the time of Christ was
instrumental in his death because they did not recognize Jesus for who
he actually was. Jesus himself ask God to foorgive the ones who
crucified him. Luke 23:34. Can you forgive them too?
1 John 5:11-13 is the question to ask to see if one will have eternal
life with God. A person needs to asked Christ in their heart and asked
for forgiveness of theiir sin. God gives every person a choice.Many
believe that good works will earn their way to heaven. This is untrue
foor one needs faith along with workks Ephesians 2:8-9
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| User: "Incitatus" |
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| Title: Re: Who does go to hell? |
26 Dec 2006 04:47:00 PM |
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In article <1167141595.796355.188830@n51g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
"suneejan" <suneejan2@gmail.com> wrote:
me@my.com wrote:
On 18 Nov 2006 19:09:01 -0800, wrote:
Who does go to hell?
Many people don't believe in hell at all. Non-Christian faiths have
their own take, of course. Judaism, the religion that birthed
Christianity, teaches of the eternal nature of the soul, a divine
judgment, and a mostly undefined "World to Come." But specifics are
Jews will all go to hell because they killed Jesus. Jews are
condemned to hell before birth. Jews are all evil demons that come
directly from hell, and only enter earth to drag others to hell with
them.
The Jews are not demons. In fact, Jesus was a jew. God allowed the
cricifixion of Christ so thhat Jesus could pay the penalty of people's
sin ....Romans 6:23. T jewish leaders at the time of Christ was
instrumental in his death because they did not recognize Jesus for who
he actually was. Jesus himself ask God to foorgive the ones who
crucified him. Luke 23:34. Can you forgive them too?
I know you mean well but this isn't enough and fortunately the churches
are finally beginning to recognise it.
The fact is that the Gospels are NOT divinely inspired, nor are they
factual accounts written by eyewitnesses. They are literary constructions
made by people over a generation after Jesuses death, out of what remained
of oral memory, and possibly pre-existing documentation that was either
lost or deliberately destroyed, in order that the orthodox version of the
story might have free reign
After the writing of the first Gospel, the story was further refined in
Matthew and Luke. By the second century - when "John" was written by
unknown writers in Ephesus - under the name of the disciple - the
antisemitism at the core of Christianity had developed even further. The
breach of cooperation between Christianity and Judaism was absolute and
irreconcilable, No longer could Christianity be regarded as part of
mainstream Judaism and practiced in the synagogues. The Temple itself was
gone - destroyed in the Wars around 70AD when many of the Jerusalem
Christians were massacred by the Romans. The Jewish dispersal - diaspora
- had taken place. There was no Judea.
The Gospels broke Jesuses religion from its Jewish roots - something Jesus
would never have done
The Slander against the Jews became endemic to Christianity for the next
two thousand years - culminating in the Holocaust. Christianity CAUSED all
this trauma - It is guilty of the slander and near destruction of Jesuses
own people. It is an appalling sin far worse than any it condemns in
individuals.
If we want to save the church then it is individuals who must walk away
from this appalling sin of antisemitism. Antisemitism is the first racism
in Christianity - the rest- slavery and the murder of indigenous peoples
that decimated Africa and ther Americas and aboriginal Australia and Maori
New Zealand - followed naturally as night follows day.
We will never solve the problems of the Middle East unless we first grasp
where this racism comes from - it comes from Paul and from the Gospels
themselves. We learnt from them a message Jesus never intended - we learnt
that people who do not think as we do are racially inferior and their
cultures less worthy before God and man. We learnt that those with a
differing credo are inferior and to be exploited in the machinery of
Christian Imperialism
If we want to put the world right we must put ourselves right. The
Fundamentalism that supports not only antisemitism but a battery of bad
behaviour has to be purged from Christianity, thrown on the rubbish heap
of theological history.
Our very theology must be purged of the nonsense built into it two
thousand years ago by people Jesus would have rebuked
Chief amongst them is the confused - spiritually , politically and
sexually - true founder of the Faith that replaced Jesuses teaching
Paul of Tarsus.
When we have done that - THEN - we can approach other cultures and peoples
and say "Let us work to be at peace - one with another - and let us be
reconciled"
Till then we have NOTHING to say and can bring only misery
++++++++++++++++++++++
1 John 5:11-13 is the question to ask to see if one will have eternal
life with God. A person needs to asked Christ in their heart and asked
for forgiveness of theiir sin. God gives every person a choice.Many
believe that good works will earn their way to heaven. This is untrue
foor one needs faith along with workks Ephesians 2:8-9
But not faith in lies
True faith demands search, understanding, reasoning, knowledge, analysis ,
consideration.
It demands to be free of threats of Hellfire if different conclusions are
reached- if a different theology is sought
Christianity HATES "faith" - it seeks to change its meaning into loyalty
to itself. It has exploited unreasoned belief to create a power base for
itself in a deranged and decimated concept of faith
And then it uses that power base to exploit and decimate others claiming
it does so "in Jesus name"
Reformation is what we need - what the people must demand
Not a blind faith
========
Up from Earth's Centre through the Seventh Gate
I rose, and on the Throne of Saturn sate,
And many Knots unravel'd by the Road;
But not the Knot of Human Death and Fate.
There was a Door to which I found no Key:
There was a Veil past which I could not see:
Some little Talk awhile of ME and THEE
There seemed---and then no more of THEE and ME.
Then to the rolling Heav'n itself I cried,
Asking, "What Lamp had Destiny to guide
"Her little Children stumbling in the Dark?"
And---"A blind Understanding!" Heav'n replied.
And that inverted Bowl we call The Sky,
Whereunder crawling coop't we live and die,
Lift not thy hands to *It* for help---for It
Rolls impotently on as Thou or I.
Myself when young did eagerly frequent
Doctor and Saint, and heard great Argument
About it and about: but evermore
Came out by the same Door as in I went.
With them the Seed of Wisdom did I sow,
And with my own hand labour'd it to grow:
And this was all the Harvest that I reap'd---
"I came like Water, and like Wind I go."
And this I know: whether the one True Light,
Kindle to Love, or Wrathconsume me quite,
One Glimpse of It within the Tavern caught
Better than in the Temple lost outright.
(Omar Khyaam)
++++++++++++
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| User: "Incitatus" |
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| Title: Re: Who does go to hell? |
26 Dec 2006 04:14:30 PM |
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In article <t4n1p2p6h2jnfb8ng14kt84rjsrekdaq77@4ax.com>, wrote:
On 18 Nov 2006 19:09:01 -0800, wrote:
Who does go to hell?
Many people don't believe in hell at all. Non-Christian faiths have
their own take, of course. Judaism, the religion that birthed
Christianity, teaches of the eternal nature of the soul, a divine
judgment, and a mostly undefined "World to Come." But specifics are
Jews will all go to hell because they killed Jesus. Jews are
condemned to hell before birth. Jews are all evil demons that come
directly from hell, and only enter earth to drag others to hell with
them.
We mostly have Saint Paul to thank for these antisemitic lies that are at
the core of Christianity with his Atonement Theology drivel.
Jesus was not killed by the Jews - that is a Pauline lie. He was killed
by the Romans under the direct orders of Pontius Pilate who supplied the
banner over Jesuses head. The banner is clear evidence of ROMAN
responsibility, for it described the victim as "Jesus of Nazareth King of
the Jews" - Its authenticity is attested to by the very fact that it so
strongly speaks AGAINST the Gospel theme of Jewish guilt. It is recorded
because eyewitnesses REMEMBERED it and it could not be conveniently
expunged from the story in order that the great antisemitic lie in the
Gospel could remain uncontested
Jesus was executed in the manner dictated by the Romans for sedition. Had
he been sentenced to death for blashemy - a highly unlikely event in that
the Sanhedrin would most likely have reprimanded him and kicked him out of
Jerusalem - he would have been stoned to death, The Romans would NOT have
intervened
The awful reality is that sometimes, in order to write the story of Jesus
within the framework of Paul's gentile and Roman version of the Jesus
story, the Gospels lie. They were written long after Jesuses death and
probably even after Pauls disappearnce from the scene through retirement,
natural death or martyrdom - no- one can be certain which, in around 65AD
By the time the Gospels were written Paul's antisemitic "gospel" dominated
Christianity. The evil at the core of it has resulted in the deaths of
millions of innocent people whose only crime was - like Jesus - to remain
loyal to their God to the end.
Forgive them Father for they know not what they do.
++++++++++++++++
.
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| User: "Eric Brze" |
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| Title: Re: Who does go to hell? |
26 Dec 2006 06:34:25 PM |
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On Wed, 27 Dec 2006 09:14:30 +1100, (Incitatus) wrote:
In article <t4n1p2p6h2jnfb8ng14kt84rjsrekdaq77@4ax.com>, wrote:
On 18 Nov 2006 19:09:01 -0800, wrote:
Who does go to hell?
Many people don't believe in hell at all. Non-Christian faiths have
their own take, of course. Judaism, the religion that birthed
Christianity, teaches of the eternal nature of the soul, a divine
judgment, and a mostly undefined "World to Come." But specifics are
Jews will all go to hell because they killed Jesus. Jews are
condemned to hell before birth. Jews are all evil demons that come
directly from hell, and only enter earth to drag others to hell with
them.
We mostly have Saint Paul to thank for these antisemitic lies that are at
the core of Christianity with his Atonement Theology drivel.
Jesus was not killed by the Jews - that is a Pauline lie. He was killed
by the Romans under the direct orders of Pontius Pilate who supplied the
banner over Jesuses head. The banner is clear evidence of ROMAN
responsibility, for it described the victim as "Jesus of Nazareth King of
the Jews" - Its authenticity is attested to by the very fact that it so
strongly speaks AGAINST the Gospel theme of Jewish guilt. It is recorded
because eyewitnesses REMEMBERED it and it could not be conveniently
expunged from the story in order that the great antisemitic lie in the
Gospel could remain uncontested
According to Pilate himself, he could not find fault in Jesus. That
shows the Jews conspired to kill Jesus using the hands of Romans.
Jesus was executed in the manner dictated by the Romans for sedition. Had
he been sentenced to death for blashemy - a highly unlikely event in that
the Sanhedrin would most likely have reprimanded him and kicked him out of
Jerusalem - he would have been stoned to death, The Romans would NOT have
intervened
The problem is, the Jews lost every debate every time they try to
corner Jesus. They simply had no opportunity to label Jesus with any
false accusations. The only thing they accomplished was to make
themselves losers in front of Jesus and the crowds. That is the reason
why they decided to use the Romans to kill Jesus.
The awful reality is that sometimes, in order to write the story of Jesus
within the framework of Paul's gentile and Roman version of the Jesus
story, the Gospels lie. They were written long after Jesuses death and
probably even after Pauls disappearnce from the scene through retirement,
natural death or martyrdom - no- one can be certain which, in around 65AD
By the time the Gospels were written Paul's antisemitic "gospel" dominated
Christianity. The evil at the core of it has resulted in the deaths of
millions of innocent people whose only crime was - like Jesus - to remain
loyal to their God to the end.
Forgive them Father for they know not what they do.
This statement only shows the compassion of Jesus of Nazareth. It does
not mean the evil conspirators were blameless. Jesus' teaching is
essentially against the evil Mosaic law. He even declared to pay taxes
to Caesar. Who really wants to kill Jesus is obvious for everyone to
see.
++++++++++++++++
.
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| User: "Brad Filippone" |
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| Title: Re: Who does go to hell? |
27 Dec 2006 05:29:30 AM |
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People who watch relity television.
Brad
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| User: "•R L Measures" |
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| Title: Re: Who does go to hell? |
27 Dec 2006 06:34:41 AM |
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In article <emtlep$haq$13@Kil-nws-1.UCIS.Dal.Ca>,
(Brad Filippone) wrote:
People who watch relity television.
Brad
• chortle. And the punishment is watching Gilligan's Island reruns 24/7.
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Who does go to hell? |
19 Nov 2006 12:14:58 AM |
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On 18 Nov 2006 19:09:01 -0800, wrote:
Who does go to hell?
All Republicans will go to hell !!!!
Thats a guarantee....
.
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Who does go to hell? |
19 Nov 2006 07:32:54 AM |
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On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 00:14:58 -0600, wrote:
On 18 Nov 2006 19:09:01 -0800, wrote:
Who does go to hell?
All Republicans will go to hell !!!!
Thats a guarantee....
Why?
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Who does go to hell? |
26 Dec 2006 03:06:44 AM |
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Heaven & Hell may be the same place,
But the state of your soul determines
if you bask in glory or burn in agony.
That is my theory.
Brian O
duke wrote:
On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 00:14:58 -0600, wrote:
On 18 Nov 2006 19:09:01 -0800, wrote:
Who does go to hell?
All Republicans will go to hell !!!!
Thats a guarantee....
Why?
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "duke" |
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| Title: Re: Who does go to hell? |
19 Nov 2006 07:31:52 AM |
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On 18 Nov 2006 19:09:01 -0800, wrote:
Who does go to hell?
The Christian discussion generally starts with this passage from the
Gospel of John: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes
to the Father except through me."
But how does Jesus decide who he'll take to the father - and who he
won't? Not every Christian claims to have a straight answer.
Here's your straight answer.
John 13:34 (New International Version)
34"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must
love one another.
You can't argue with the 11th Commandment.
duke, American-American
*****
"The Mass is the most perfect form of Prayer."
Pope Paul VI
*****
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| User: "Bill M" |
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| Title: Re: Who does go to hell? |
19 Nov 2006 10:33:52 AM |
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"duke" <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote in message
news:o1n0m2p2vj2u2phdp3pkb361bf6g6m7d6m@4ax.com...
On 18 Nov 2006 19:09:01 -0800, wrote:
Who does go to hell?
The Christian discussion generally starts with this passage from the
Gospel of John: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes
to the Father except through me."
But how does Jesus decide who he'll take to the father - and who he
won't? Not every Christian claims to have a straight answer.
Here's your straight answer.
John 13:34 (New International Version)
34"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you
must
love one another.
You can't argue with the 11th Commandment.
duke, American-American
For once your right! You can't argue with myths and fables.
.
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| User: "CB" |
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| Title: Re: Who does go to hell? |
19 Nov 2006 08:21:52 AM |
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On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 07:31:52 -0600, duke <duckgumbo32@cox.net> wrote:
On 18 Nov 2006 19:09:01 -0800, wrote:
Who does go to hell?
The Christian discussion generally starts with this passage from the
Gospel of John: "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes
to the Father except through me."
But how does Jesus decide who he'll take to the father - and who he
won't? Not every Christian claims to have a straight answer.
Here's your straight answer.
John 13:34 (New International Version)
34"A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must
love one another.
Why do you use the NIV?
Don't you have your own bible?
BTW, that's not a straight answer.
But nice try.
You can't argue with the 11th Commandment.
duke,
Acts 26:8 "Why is it considered incredible among you
people if God does raise the dead?
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| User: "Cazador" |
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| Title: Re: Demons in the house! |
18 Nov 2006 08:10:56 PM |
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martus wrote:
Devout Christians flocking to French church after 'sightings' of Jesus
17.11.06
Add your view
Devout Christians are flocking to a church on the French riviera where
both Jesus and the Virgin Mary are said to have appeared to
worshippers.
Give us a break, martus. This has been happening for centuries--and so
have been "investigations" by the Church.
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| User: "Concorde" |
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| Title: Re: Demons in the house! |
19 Nov 2006 03:38:00 PM |
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In article <1163902256.023410.89430@h48g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
"Cazador" <coaster132000@yahoo.com> wrote:
martus wrote:
Devout Christians flocking to French church after 'sightings' of Jesus
17.11.06
Add your view
Devout Christians are flocking to a church on the French riviera where
both Jesus and the Virgin Mary are said to have appeared to
worshippers.
Give us a break, martus. This has been happening for centuries--and so
have been "investigations" by the Church.
Yes but nowadays lots of people have digital cameras on their mobile phones
One quick snap and we can have it on the internet
And settle this argument as to OL's perpetual V-ity once and for all.
(Unless they repair them in Heaven)
:-)
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