| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Gactimus" |
| Date: |
20 Dec 2004 07:52:40 PM |
| Object: |
Dems Silent on Anti-Christmas Campaign |
I was struck upon reading Charles Krauthammer's piece on Christmas in this
morning's Washington Post, which read in part:
"The attempts to de-Christianize Christmas are as absurd as they are
relentless. The United States today is the most tolerant and diverse
society in history. It celebrates all faiths with an open heart and open-
mindedness that, compared to even the most advanced countries in Europe,
are unique."
Yet more than 80 percent of Americans are Christian, and probably 95
percent of Americans celebrate Christmas. Christmas Day is an official
federal holiday, the only day of the entire year when, for example, the
Smithsonian museums are closed. Are we to pretend that Christmas is nothing
but an orgy of commerce in celebration of . . . what? The winter solstice?
The idea hit me that the recent spate of anti-Christmas absurdities
presents a fabulous "Sista Soulja moment" for the Democrats. After their
November 2nd drubbing, many – nay most – high level Dems promised to start
speaking to church-goers in middle America.
Just listen to three of the leading candidates for DNC Chair:
"'Our moral values are closer to the American people than the Republicans
are,' said Dean, a former Vermont governor who also passed out cans of his
state's maple syrup.
Simon Rosenberg, president of the centrist New Democrat Network, said, "We
cannot cede the debate about values and we need to embrace being a
Democrat."
Don Fowler of California told the crowd of more than 100 Democratic
leaders, 'I am a Democrat because I am a Christian, not in spite of it.'"
What better time, what better way to fulfill this commitment and show the
American people you mean business than to speak out now on behalf of
Christmas. Surely, that’s not too controversial a leap for the Dems, is it?
Alas, it is. Indeed, the silence from the left on these anti-Christmas
stories is chilling. Might they actually endorse such measures in towns
like Somerville, MA, which celebrated at a "Holiday Party" they
"mistakenly" called a "Christmas Party" (and later publicly apologized for
the mistake)? Or the canceling of a Christian rock band in a Toledo high
school for fear that it'd offend some kids?
Well, maybe. But more probably, Dems are just oblivious to these stories,
or rather don't know what the big deal is. That's because Democrats can
talk about talking to middle-Americans about values, but they can't
actually do it because they don't know who we are and they don't know what
the values we hold are all about. They don't know what we care about and
they don't know anything about the symbols that make those values stand out
in the public square. If they did, you'd hear Howard Dean condemning the
de-Christianization of Christmas while on the stump for DNC Chair.
Instead we get this from Frank Rich, the chief scribbler for the DNC’s
daily circular, the New York Times:
What is this about? How can those in this country's overwhelming religious
majority maintain that they are victims in a fiery battle with forces of
darkness? It is certainly not about actual victimization. Christmas is as
pervasive as it has ever been in America, where it wasn't even declared a
federal holiday until after the Civil War. What's really going on here is
yet another example of a post-Election-Day winner-takes-all power grab by
the "moral values" brigade. As Mr. Gibson shrewdly contrived his own
crucifixion all the way to the bank, trumping up nonexistent threats to his
movie to hype it, so the creation of imagined enemies and exaggerated
threats to Christianity by "moral values" mongers of the right has its own
secular purpose. The idea is to intimidate and marginalize anyone who
objects to their efforts to impose the most conservative of Christian dogma
on public policy. If you're against their views, you don't have a differing
opinion -- you're anti-Christian (even if you are a Christian).
And as long as the Frank Rich's of the world dictate what passes for high
thinking in the Democrat Party and the cultural left, you'll continue to
hear the crickets chirp when "moral values" comes up wherever two or more
Democrats assemble.
.
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|
| User: "Ninure Saunders" |
|
| Title: Re: Dems Silent on Anti-Christmas Campaign |
21 Dec 2004 07:21:22 AM |
|
|
=================================================================
The funny thing is, under the present climate, Jesus would not be able to
get a visa to enter the United States of America..would be called scum by
most conservatives....they demand his imprisonment and/or death because he
fits the profile of a terrorist:
Male, between 20-35, from the Middle East, no visible means of support...
The teachings of Jesus could be seen as offering aid and comfort to
terrorists since they don't seem to support war::
Matt. 5:38 You have heard that it was said, Eye for eye, and tooth for
tooth. 39 But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes
you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also. 40 And if someone
wants to sue you and take your tunic, let him have your cloak as well. 41
If someone forces you to go one mile, go with him two miles. 42 Give to
the one who asks you, and do not turn away from the one who wants to
borrow from you.
Matt. 5:43 You have heard that it was said, Love your neighbor and hate
your enemy. 44 But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who
persecute you, 45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes
his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous
and the unrighteous. 46 If you love those who love you, what reward will
you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47 And if you greet
only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even
pagans do that? 48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is
perfect.
====================================================================
Ninure Saunders aka Rainbow Christian
The Lord is my Shepherd and He knows I'm Gay
http://Ninure-Saunders.tk
Take my polls
http://ninure.100megsfree5.com
My Yahoo Group
http://Ninure.tk
Universal Fellowship of Metropolitan Community Churches
http://www.MCCchurch.org
The Bible Site - help provide free scripture
http://www.thebiblesite.org
To send e-mail, remove nohate from address
.
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|
|
| User: "Mike Williams" |
|
| Title: Re: Dems Silent on Anti-Christmas Campaign |
20 Dec 2004 08:33:14 PM |
|
|
Gactimus wrote:
"The attempts to de-Christianize Christmas are as absurd as they are
relentless. The United States today is the most tolerant and diverse
society in history.
Except for others like Canada, Australia, New Zealand, ...
.
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|
| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
|
| Title: Re: Dems Silent on Anti-Christmas Campaign |
14 Oct 2005 07:36:02 PM |
|
|
"Nimzo Indian CCC" <nimzoindianccc@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041220220745.08186.00002302@mb-m05.aol.com...
DO you honestly think that 95 out of 100 Americans are born-again
Christians
who are serving Christ?
MANY will say to him Lord Lord......few are chosen.
Even IF all Americans were born-again Christians, we are *only* 6% of the
world's population !
Please let that sink in.
Name a nation more inclined to obey Matt.25:31-46, when there is a flood,
drought, earthquake, tsunami, or whatever, who is the first to show up to
help ?
.
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| User: "Christopher Benson-Manica" |
|
| Title: Re: Dems Silent on Anti-Christmas Campaign |
20 Dec 2004 09:17:52 PM |
|
|
In talk.abortion Mike Williams <mike_nospam@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
Except for others like Canada, Australia, New Zealand, ...
Canada isn't tolerant; it's militantly politically correct.
--
Christopher Benson-Manica | I *should* know what I'm talking about - if I
ataru(at)cyberspace.org | don't, I need to know. Flames welcome.
.
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|
| User: "SDesk" |
|
| Title: Re: Dems Silent on Anti-Christmas Campaign |
20 Dec 2004 09:49:46 PM |
|
|
Christopher Benson-Manica wrote:
| In talk.abortion Mike Williams <mike_nospam@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
|
|| Except for others like Canada, Australia, New Zealand, ...
|
| Canada isn't tolerant; it's militantly politically correct.
What a generalization of 32 million people! Canada has a dynamic play of
elements some very 'politically correct' others not so. Political
correctness, however, will sometimes gain the upper hand because of the way
the Charter of Rights and Freedoms gets interpreted by the Supreme Court.
Some political correctness is good, of course, much is very bad.
There is a tremendous need in Canada to fight what is considered intolerance
and bigotry. There are *so* many divers groups and cultures sharing this
country that there's probably some need for political correctness.
Thankfully, there is no official separation of religion from State, so God
can be mentioned and prayed to officially. He tends to get very generic
treatment mind you, but He can be acknowledged all the same. Teachers can
mention Christmas in schools without the axe falling etc. as well as any
other holiday from any other religion. If a teacher were to rant against
Hinduism, though, I think that she would face censor as members of all
religions have the right to reasonably fair treatment.
However, don't take this as a rosy picture because there is incredible and
vicious injustice and crime in that the Canadian governments ( Fed. and
Prov. ) enable the abortion of a hundres thousand unborn every year.
In many ways our justice system *really* needs updating and to move very
much away from the American style which is so flawed and so wrong. I don't
know if Canada is socially ready for what is really needed they've been so
brainwashed by certain aspects of American culture. But there does seem to
be a leeway here that the States doesn't enjoy.
Also, the 'marriage' of homosexuals is legal here. This is not so bad as one
might think, at least not yet. We've decided not to make discriminations
based on sexual orientation .. this marriage business is a natural
conclusion of that. The married homosexual couples behave foolishly and get
'married' if they so wish, their behaviour is foolish already anyway. Yet
they remain free from arbitrary discrimination at work etc. .. which is
probably a good thing. Way back in the sixties the govenment decided to get
out of the nation's bedrooms so..
But there are plenty of people here, probably more than ever since a number
of years, who have turned back to Churches and have turned against abortion,
so I haven't given up hope on Canada yet. Prayer is a good thing.
.
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|
| User: "Gactimus" |
|
| Title: Re: Dems Silent on Anti-Christmas Campaign |
21 Dec 2004 07:33:34 AM |
|
|
"SDesk" <sdeskpassport@coldmail.com> wrote in
news:rvGdnR61qP3FAFrcRVn-pA@rogers.com:
Christopher Benson-Manica wrote:
| In talk.abortion Mike Williams <mike_nospam@optusnet.com.au> wrote:
|
|| Except for others like Canada, Australia, New Zealand, ...
|
| Canada isn't tolerant; it's militantly politically correct.
What a generalization of 32 million people! Canada has a dynamic play of
elements some very 'politically correct' others not so. Political
correctness, however, will sometimes gain the upper hand because of the
way the Charter of Rights and Freedoms gets interpreted by the Supreme
Court. Some political correctness is good, of course, much is very bad.
There is a tremendous need in Canada to fight what is considered
intolerance and bigotry. There are *so* many divers groups and cultures
sharing this country that there's probably some need for political
correctness.
Political correctness is polite fascism.
.
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|
| User: "Ray Fischer" |
|
| Title: Re: Dems Silent on Anti-Christmas Campaign |
21 Dec 2004 08:27:03 PM |
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|
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
Political correctness is polite fascism.
For example: The rabid political correctness of the neocons who accuse
anybody who dares to criticize the Bush regime of being traitors,
cowards, or unAmerican.
Except that you're not a polite fascist.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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| User: "Heidi Graw" |
|
| Title: Re: Dems Silent on Anti-Christmas Campaign |
22 Dec 2004 05:09:22 AM |
|
|
"Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
news:cqam1m$18c$1@bolt.sonic.net...
Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
Political correctness is polite fascism.
Ray wrote:
For example: The rabid political correctness of the neocons who accuse
anybody who dares to criticize the Bush regime of being traitors,
cowards, or unAmerican.
What I don't like about the term "unAmerican" is that it's meant to be a bad
thing...it's to be taken as an insult. As a Canadian, I am decidedly
unAmerican as are over 6 billion other people around the globe. So, to me
being unAmerican is actually a good thing and I would be among the
majority...a great vast huge majority!
Oh well...to any Americans who are accused of being unAmerican, feel free to
immigrate to Canada or other points around the globe. You'll be among
billions of other unAmericans. This should make you feel right at home and
welcome! And none of us unAmericans will feel insulted, will we? ;-)
Fröhliche Weihnachten! (translation: Happy Holy Nights....the German
greeting for this time of year.)
Heidi
.
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| User: "SDesk" |
|
| Title: Re: Dems Silent on Anti-Christmas Campaign |
22 Dec 2004 09:56:00 AM |
|
|
Heidi Graw wrote:
|| "Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
|| news:cqam1m$18c$1@bolt.sonic.net...
|| Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
||| Political correctness is polite fascism.
|
|| Ray wrote:
|| For example: The rabid political correctness of the neocons who accuse
|| anybody who dares to criticize the Bush regime of being traitors,
|| cowards, or unAmerican.
|
| What I don't like about the term "unAmerican" is that it's meant to be a
| bad thing...it's to be taken as an insult. As a Canadian, I am decidedly
| unAmerican as are over 6 billion other people around the globe. So, to me
| being unAmerican is actually a good thing and I would be among the
| majority...a great vast huge majority!
|
| Oh well...to any Americans who are accused of being unAmerican, feel free
| to immigrate to Canada or other points around the globe. You'll be among
| billions of other unAmericans. This should make you feel right at home
| and welcome! And none of us unAmericans will feel insulted, will we? ;-)
|
| Fröhliche Weihnachten! (translation: Happy Holy Nights....the German
| greeting for this time of year.)
|
| Heidi
The term is an insult of course, a way to exercise social control within
America. The idea is that the other's opinion or world-view is wrong -
almost traitorous - because it doesn't adhere to some vague sense of
American values - whatever they are - usually connected to the *insulter's*
opinions of course - so they had better conform to your opinion on threat of
shame and censure.
To Americans, Americans can be either American or unAmerican. To them,
people in other countries - non-Americans - can be either pro-American or
anti-American. It's all about America - it's an Ameri-centric way of
expressing oneself.
For "non-Americans" like you and me, if we want to feel better about it we
need to move 'America' out of the center of our expression.
Oh, and feel thankful that the term "unAmerican" falls flat on you and
doesn't have the controlling effect that the speaker intended it to have on
you. Be glad you can be free of America.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Glenn \Christian Mystic" |
|
| Title: Re: Dems Silent on Anti-Christmas Campaign |
13 Dec 2005 06:57:29 PM |
|
|
So, its ok to support the enemy ? If you don't support stopping the enemy,
you support what they(the enemy, presently terrorists) are doing, and the
deaths of our men and women in uniform.
Being from a military family, I know that most people wearing the uniforms,
and their families see "supporting the military" as supporting them to the
completion of their missions, and "bringing them home" before the missions
are successfully completed as bringing them home defeated, and making the
deaths of those who died trying to complete these missions a meanless waste,
in that they had died for *nothing*. If you support our young men and women
in uniform, you *back what they are doing* PERIOD
"SDesk" <sdeskpassport@coldmail.com> wrote in message
news:ZaydnUjissaWBFTcRVn-vg@rogers.com...
Heidi Graw wrote:
|| "Ray Fischer" <rfischer@bolt.sonic.net> wrote in message
|| news:cqam1m$18c$1@bolt.sonic.net...
|| Gactimus <gactimus@xrs.net> wrote:
||| Political correctness is polite fascism.
|
|| Ray wrote:
|| For example: The rabid political correctness of the neocons who accuse
|| anybody who dares to criticize the Bush regime of being traitors,
|| cowards, or unAmerican.
|
| What I don't like about the term "unAmerican" is that it's meant to be a
| bad thing...it's to be taken as an insult. As a Canadian, I am
decidedly
| unAmerican as are over 6 billion other people around the globe. So, to
me
| being unAmerican is actually a good thing and I would be among the
| majority...a great vast huge majority!
|
| Oh well...to any Americans who are accused of being unAmerican, feel
free
| to immigrate to Canada or other points around the globe. You'll be
among
| billions of other unAmericans. This should make you feel right at home
| and welcome! And none of us unAmericans will feel insulted, will we?
;-)
|
| Fröhliche Weihnachten! (translation: Happy Holy Nights....the German
| greeting for this time of year.)
|
| Heidi
The term is an insult of course, a way to exercise social control within
America. The idea is that the other's opinion or world-view is wrong -
almost traitorous - because it doesn't adhere to some vague sense of
American values - whatever they are - usually connected to the
*insulter's*
opinions of course - so they had better conform to your opinion on threat
of
shame and censure.
To Americans, Americans can be either American or unAmerican. To them,
people in other countries - non-Americans - can be either pro-American or
anti-American. It's all about America - it's an Ameri-centric way of
expressing oneself.
For "non-Americans" like you and me, if we want to feel better about it we
need to move 'America' out of the center of our expression.
Oh, and feel thankful that the term "unAmerican" falls flat on you and
doesn't have the controlling effect that the speaker intended it to have
on
you. Be glad you can be free of America.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ray Fischer" |
|
| Title: Re: Dems Silent on Anti-Christmas Campaign |
13 Dec 2005 08:42:22 PM |
|
|
Glenn \(Christian Mystic\) <christianmystic@ev1.net> wrote:
So, its ok to support the enemy ? If you don't support stopping the enemy,
you support what they(the enemy, presently terrorists) are doing, and the
deaths of our men and women in uniform.
Excellent propaganda. Probably very similar to the propaganda used to
justify 9/11.
Being from a military family, I know that most people wearing the uniforms,
and their families see "supporting the military" as supporting them to the
completion of their missions, and "bringing them home" before the missions
are successfully completed as bringing them home defeated, and making the
deaths of those who died trying to complete these missions a meanless waste,
in that they had died for *nothing*. If you support our young men and women
in uniform, you *back what they are doing* PERIOD
So having more soldiers die is the way to make the deaths of soldiers
"meaningful"?
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
|
|
|
| User: "Howard Brazee" |
|
| Title: Re: Dems Silent on Anti-Christmas Campaign |
13 Dec 2005 09:51:03 PM |
|
|
On 13 Dec 2005 18:42:22 -0800, (Ray Fischer)
wrote:
So having more soldiers die is the way to make the deaths of soldiers
"meaningful"?
Remember the line in Patton?
"Now I want you to remember that no ***** ever won a war by dying
for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb ***** die
for his country. "
.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
|
| Title: Re: Dems Silent on Anti-Christmas Campaign |
14 Dec 2005 12:01:33 PM |
|
|
Howard Brazee <howard@brazee.net> wrote:
Remember the line in Patton?
"Now I want you to remember that no ***** ever won a war by dying
for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb ***** die
for his country. "
"He who fights and runs away lives to fight another day."
The Princess Bride
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
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|
|
|
| User: "Ray Fischer" |
|
| Title: Re: Dems Silent on Anti-Christmas Campaign |
14 Dec 2005 12:45:47 AM |
|
|
Howard Brazee <howard@brazee.net> wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer)
So having more soldiers die is the way to make the deaths of soldiers
"meaningful"?
Remember the line in Patton?
"Now I want you to remember that no ***** ever won a war by dying
for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb ***** die
for his country. "
And the "poor dumb bastards" in Iraq aren't even dying for their own
country. They're dying for somebody else's country.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
|
|
|
| User: "Richard Eney" |
|
| Title: Re: Dems Silent on Anti-Christmas Campaign |
14 Dec 2005 08:46:43 AM |
|
|
In article <dnof2r$2l7$1@bolt.sonic.net>,
Ray Fischer <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote:
Howard Brazee <howard@brazee.net> wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer)
So having more soldiers die is the way to make the deaths of soldiers
"meaningful"?
Remember the line in Patton?
"Now I want you to remember that no ***** ever won a war by dying
for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb ***** die
for his country. "
And the "poor dumb bastards" in Iraq aren't even dying for their own
country. They're dying for somebody else's country.
Sure. Just like our guys in World War Twice were dying for England,
France and Russia.
And for poor dumb bastards who think that where a person dies is wy he
dies.
-- ***** Eney
OPERATION CRIFANAC PUBLICATIONS
http://www.crifanac.net/Index.htm
prozines and fanzines 'n' stuff
.
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|
|
| User: "Ray Fischer" |
|
| Title: Dems Silent on Anti-Christmas Campaign |
14 Dec 2005 12:01:58 PM |
|
|
Richard Eney <dicconf@radix.net> wrote:
Ray Fischer <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote:
Howard Brazee <howard@brazee.net> wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer)
So having more soldiers die is the way to make the deaths of soldiers
"meaningful"?
Remember the line in Patton?
"Now I want you to remember that no ***** ever won a war by dying
for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb ***** die
for his country. "
And the "poor dumb bastards" in Iraq aren't even dying for their own
country. They're dying for somebody else's country.
Sure. Just like our guys in World War Twice were dying for England,
France and Russia.
Since Nazi Germany had declared war against the United States and was
actually a threat to the US, your analogy is the typically stupid
idiocy we've come to expect from right-wing cultists who believe every
bit of ***** propaganda fed to them.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
|
|
|
| User: "Deuteros" |
|
| Title: Re: Dems Silent on Anti-Christmas Campaign |
14 Dec 2005 04:21:16 PM |
|
|
(Ray Fischer) wrote in
news:dnpmmm$pnq$1@bolt.sonic.net:
Richard Eney <dicconf@radix.net> wrote:
Ray Fischer <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote:
Howard Brazee <howard@brazee.net> wrote:
(Ray Fischer)
So having more soldiers die is the way to make the deaths of
soldiers "meaningful"?
Remember the line in Patton?
"Now I want you to remember that no ***** ever won a war by dying
for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb ***** die
for his country. "
And the "poor dumb bastards" in Iraq aren't even dying for their own
country. They're dying for somebody else's country.
Sure. Just like our guys in World War Twice were dying for England,
France and Russia.
Since Nazi Germany had declared war against the United States and was
actually a threat to the US, your analogy is the typically stupid
idiocy we've come to expect from right-wing cultists who believe every
bit of ***** propaganda fed to them.
FDR was waging a naval war against Germany long before Germany ever declared
war on us.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Ray Fischer" |
|
| Title: Re: Dems Silent on Anti-Christmas Campaign |
14 Dec 2005 04:59:48 PM |
|
|
Deuteros <deuteros@xrs.net> wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in
Richard Eney <dicconf@radix.net> wrote:
Ray Fischer <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote:
Howard Brazee <howard@brazee.net> wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer)
So having more soldiers die is the way to make the deaths of
soldiers "meaningful"?
Remember the line in Patton?
"Now I want you to remember that no ***** ever won a war by dying
for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb ***** die
for his country. "
And the "poor dumb bastards" in Iraq aren't even dying for their own
country. They're dying for somebody else's country.
Sure. Just like our guys in World War Twice were dying for England,
France and Russia.
Since Nazi Germany had declared war against the United States and was
actually a threat to the US, your analogy is the typically stupid
idiocy we've come to expect from right-wing cultists who believe every
bit of ***** propaganda fed to them.
FDR was waging a naval war against Germany long before Germany ever declared
war on us.
Revisionist history. Like most stupid neocons you depend upon such
lies in order to justify your fascist ideology.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
.
|
|
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| User: "Deuteros" |
|
| Title: Re: Dems Silent on Anti-Christmas Campaign |
15 Dec 2005 07:22:10 AM |
|
|
(Ray Fischer) wrote in
news:dnq854$lbc$1@bolt.sonic.net:
Deuteros <deuteros@xrs.net> wrote:
(Ray Fischer) wrote in
Richard Eney <dicconf@radix.net> wrote:
Ray Fischer <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote:
Howard Brazee <howard@brazee.net> wrote:
(Ray Fischer)
So having more soldiers die is the way to make the deaths of
soldiers "meaningful"?
Remember the line in Patton?
"Now I want you to remember that no ***** ever won a war by dying
for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb *****
die for his country. "
And the "poor dumb bastards" in Iraq aren't even dying for their own
country. They're dying for somebody else's country.
Sure. Just like our guys in World War Twice were dying for England,
France and Russia.
Since Nazi Germany had declared war against the United States and was
actually a threat to the US, your analogy is the typically stupid
idiocy we've come to expect from right-wing cultists who believe every
bit of ***** propaganda fed to them.
FDR was waging a naval war against Germany long before Germany ever
declared war on us.
Revisionist history. Like most stupid neocons you depend upon such
lies in order to justify your fascist ideology.
I bet you think the holocaust never happened either.
.
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|
|
|
| User: "Richard Eney" |
|
| Title: Re: Dems Silent on Anti-Christmas Campaign |
16 Dec 2005 08:30:48 PM |
|
|
In article <dnq854$lbc$1@bolt.sonic.net>,
Ray Fischer <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote:
Deuteros <deuteros@xrs.net> wrote:
FDR was waging a naval war against Germany long before Germany ever declared
war on us.
Revisionist history. Like most stupid neocons you depend upon such
lies in order to justify your fascist ideology.
Is it just me, or do the rest of you detect a hostile tone in Fischer's
responses?
-- ***** Eney
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| User: "BOB" |
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| Title: Re: Dems Silent on Anti-Christmas Campaign |
17 Dec 2005 01:22:14 PM |
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(Richard Eney) wrote in
news:11q6u2o5934ufe8@corp.supernews.com:
In article <dnq854$lbc$1@bolt.sonic.net>,
Ray Fischer <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote:
Deuteros <deuteros@xrs.net> wrote:
FDR was waging a naval war against Germany long before Germany ever
declared war on us.
Revisionist history. Like most stupid neocons you depend upon such
lies in order to justify your fascist ideology.
Is it just me, or do the rest of you detect a hostile tone in
Fischer's responses?
-- ***** Eney
Yes, it's just you *****.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Dems Silent on Anti-Christmas Campaign |
17 Dec 2005 12:58:00 PM |
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Richard Eney <dicconf@radix.net> wrote:
Ray Fischer <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote:
Deuteros <deuteros@xrs.net> wrote:
FDR was waging a naval war against Germany long before Germany ever declared
war on us.
Revisionist history. Like most stupid neocons you depend upon such
lies in order to justify your fascist ideology.
Is it just me, or do the rest of you detect a hostile tone in Fischer's
responses?
I don't like it when people use lies to justify atrocities.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "D. Patterson" |
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| Title: Re: Dems Silent on Anti-Christmas Campaign |
14 Dec 2005 04:46:02 PM |
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Deuteros wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in
news:dnpmmm$pnq$1@bolt.sonic.net:
Richard Eney <dicconf@radix.net> wrote:
Ray Fischer <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote:
Howard Brazee <howard@brazee.net> wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer)
So having more soldiers die is the way to make the deaths of
soldiers "meaningful"?
Remember the line in Patton?
"Now I want you to remember that no ***** ever won a war by dying
for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb ***** die
for his country. "
And the "poor dumb bastards" in Iraq aren't even dying for their own
country. They're dying for somebody else's country.
Sure. Just like our guys in World War Twice were dying for England,
France and Russia.
Since Nazi Germany had declared war against the United States and was
actually a threat to the US, your analogy is the typically stupid
idiocy we've come to expect from right-wing cultists who believe every
bit of ***** propaganda fed to them.
FDR was waging a naval war against Germany long before Germany ever declared
war on us.
False. The German Kreigsmarine U-boats began the clandestine war upon
upon the neutral merchant ships of the United States and other nations
in Septmeber 1939, which was prior to Roosevelt's response with the
Neutrality Patrol.
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| User: "Deuteros" |
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| Title: Re: Dems Silent on Anti-Christmas Campaign |
15 Dec 2005 07:24:45 AM |
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"D. Patterson" <nye@fidalgo.net> wrote in
news:43A0A0AA.7030506@fidalgo.net:
Deuteros wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in
news:dnpmmm$pnq$1@bolt.sonic.net:
Richard Eney <dicconf@radix.net> wrote:
Ray Fischer <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote:
Howard Brazee <howard@brazee.net> wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer)
So having more soldiers die is the way to make the deaths of
soldiers "meaningful"?
Remember the line in Patton?
"Now I want you to remember that no ***** ever won a war by dying
for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb ***** die
for his country. "
And the "poor dumb bastards" in Iraq aren't even dying for their own
country. They're dying for somebody else's country.
Sure. Just like our guys in World War Twice were dying for England,
France and Russia.
Since Nazi Germany had declared war against the United States and was
actually a threat to the US, your analogy is the typically stupid
idiocy we've come to expect from right-wing cultists who believe every
bit of ***** propaganda fed to them.
FDR was waging a naval war against Germany long before Germany ever
declared war on us.
False. The German Kreigsmarine U-boats began the clandestine war upon
upon the neutral merchant ships of the United States and other nations
in Septmeber 1939, which was prior to Roosevelt's response with the
Neutrality Patrol.
You mean the "neutral" merchant ships that were delivering supplies to
Germany's enemies?
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| User: "Richard Eney" |
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| Title: Re: Dems Silent on Anti-Christmas Campaign |
16 Dec 2005 08:28:36 PM |
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In article <43A0A0AA.7030506@fidalgo.net>,
D. Patterson <nye@fidalgo.net> wrote:
Deuteros wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in
news:dnpmmm$pnq$1@bolt.sonic.net:
Richard Eney <dicconf@radix.net> wrote:
Ray Fischer <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote:
Howard Brazee <howard@brazee.net> wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer)
Now, pay attention, people. There will be a pop quiz later to find out
which of you can figure out who said what.
FDR was waging a naval war against Germany long before Germany ever declared
war on us.
False. The German Kreigsmarine U-boats began the clandestine war upon
upon the neutral merchant ships of the United States and other nations
in Septmeber 1939, which was prior to Roosevelt's response with the
Neutrality Patrol.
Actually, I believe unrestricted warfare against ships entering the
"maritime exclusilon zone" around Britain began some months after the
outbreak of hostilities. However, your general proposition remains true:
the Nazis started shooting at us well before the Neutrality Patrol or the
destroyers-for-bases deal.
-- ***** Eney
OPERATION CRIFANAC PUBLICATIONS
http://www.crifanac.net/Index.htm
prozines and fanzines 'n' stuff
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| User: "D. Patterson" |
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| Title: Re: Dems Silent on Anti-Christmas Campaign |
16 Dec 2005 09:14:38 PM |
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Richard Eney wrote:
In article <43A0A0AA.7030506@fidalgo.net>,
D. Patterson <nye@fidalgo.net> wrote:
Deuteros wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer) wrote in
news:dnpmmm$pnq$1@bolt.sonic.net:
Richard Eney <dicconf@radix.net> wrote:
Ray Fischer <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote:
Howard Brazee <howard@brazee.net> wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer)
Now, pay attention, people. There will be a pop quiz later to find out
which of you can figure out who said what.
FDR was waging a naval war against Germany long before Germany ever declared
war on us.
False. The German Kreigsmarine U-boats began the clandestine war upon
upon the neutral merchant ships of the United States and other nations
in Septmeber 1939, which was prior to Roosevelt's response with the
Neutrality Patrol.
Actually, I believe unrestricted warfare against ships entering the
"maritime exclusilon zone" around Britain began some months after the
outbreak of hostilities. However, your general proposition remains true:
the Nazis started shooting at us well before the Neutrality Patrol or the
destroyers-for-bases deal.
-- ***** Eney
OPERATION CRIFANAC PUBLICATIONS
http://www.crifanac.net/Index.htm
prozines and fanzines 'n' stuff
Germany's publicly announced policy to sink neutral shipping in the war
zones was issued on 30 January 1941. Germany's clandestine sinking of
neutral shipping began in September 1939, although U.S. flagged merchant
ships were mostly exempted to avoid incidents which would bring the U.S.
into the war against Germany. Merchant shipping flagged under other
neutral nations, carrying U.S. cargoes, and lacking the seapower of the
U.S. were targeted for the clandestine sinkings under the false guise of
mistakes. U.S. flagged merchantman Robin Moor was sunk with torpedo and
gunfire by U-69 off the coast of West Africa on 21 May 1941.
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| User: "Howard Brazee" |
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| Title: Re: Dems Silent on Anti-Christmas Campaign |
14 Dec 2005 05:34:42 PM |
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On 14 Dec 2005 10:01:58 -0800, (Ray Fischer)
wrote:
Since Nazi Germany had declared war against the United States and was
actually a threat to the US, your analogy is the typically stupid
idiocy we've come to expect from right-wing cultists who believe every
bit of ***** propaganda fed to them.
But bin Laden is at war with the U.S., which is why we attacked Iraq
for him.
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| User: "Ray Fischer" |
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| Title: Re: Dems Silent on Anti-Christmas Campaign |
14 Dec 2005 11:23:33 AM |
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Richard Eney <dicconf@radix.net> wrote:
Ray Fischer <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote:
Howard Brazee <howard@brazee.net> wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer)
So having more soldiers die is the way to make the deaths of soldiers
"meaningful"?
Remember the line in Patton?
"Now I want you to remember that no ***** ever won a war by dying
for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb ***** die
for his country. "
And the "poor dumb bastards" in Iraq aren't even dying for their own
country. They're dying for somebody else's country.
Sure. Just like our guys in World War Twice were dying for England,
France and Russia.
Since Nazi Germany had declared war against the United States as was
actually a threat to the US, your analogy is the typically stupid
idiocy we've come to expect from right-wing cultists who believe every
bit of ***** propaganda fed to them.
--
Ray Fischer
rfischer@sonic.net
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| User: "Richard Eney" |
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| Title: Re: Dems Silent on Anti-Christmas Campaign |
16 Dec 2005 08:22:17 PM |
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In article <dnpkel$n9a$1@bolt.sonic.net>,
Ray Fischer <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote:
Richard Eney <dicconf@radix.net> wrote:
Ray Fischer <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote:
Howard Brazee <howard@brazee.net> wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer)
So having more soldiers die is the way to make the deaths of soldiers
"meaningful"?
Remember the line in Patton?
"Now I want you to remember that no ***** ever won a war by dying
for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb ***** die
for his country. "
And the "poor dumb bastards" in Iraq aren't even dying for their own
country. They're dying for somebody else's country.
Sure. Just like our guys in World War Twice were dying for England,
France and Russia.
Since Nazi Germany had declared war against the United States as was
actually a threat to the US, your analogy is the typically stupid
idiocy we've come to expect from right-wing cultists who believe every
bit of ***** propaganda fed to them.
*Sigh* The usual leftist kneejerk.
Nazi Germany's ability to mount a (transAtlantic) invasion of the United
States has not come to my attention in the course of a fairly extensive
reading of military history.
And if "right-wing cultists" include union organizers and land-reform
activists, send us more such cultists. And fewer leftists who see any
opposition to their Politically Correct line as "stupid idiocy".
-- ***** Eney
OPERATION CRIFANAC PUBLICATIONS
http://www.crifanac.net/Index.htm
prozines and fanzines 'n' stuff
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| User: "Scott Lurndal" |
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| Title: Re: Dems Silent on Anti-Christmas Campaign |
03 Jan 2006 07:37:50 PM |
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(Richard Eney) writes:
In article <dnpkel$n9a$1@bolt.sonic.net>,
Ray Fischer <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote:
Richard Eney < > wrote:
Ray Fischer <rfischer@sonic.net> wrote:
Howard Brazee <howard@brazee.net> wrote:
rfischer@bolt.sonic.net (Ray Fischer)
So having more soldiers die is the way to make the deaths of soldiers
"meaningful"?
Remember the line in Patton?
"Now I want you to remember that no ***** ever won a war by dying
for his country. He won it by making the other poor dumb ***** die
for his country. "
And the "poor dumb bastards" in Iraq aren't even dying for their own
country. They're dying for somebody else's country.
Sure. Just like our guys in World War Twice were dying for England,
France and Russia.
Since Nazi Germany had declared war against the United States as was
actually a threat to the US, your analogy is the typically stupid
idiocy we've come to expect from right-wing cultists who believe every
bit of ***** propaganda fed to them.
*Sigh* The usual leftist kneejerk.
C'est what?
Nazi Germany's ability to mount a (transAtlantic) invasion of the United
States has not come to my attention in the course of a fairly extensive
reading of military history.
if, however, germany had defeated britian and the USSR, a quite likely
possibility sans american involvment , they _would_ have been a
translatlantic threat, nicht wahr?
scott
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