| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"snowpheonix" |
| Date: |
24 Aug 2007 12:01:35 PM |
| Object: |
Did Christ void the Law 4, The final proof. |
People commonly mistake the Ten Commandments as being first delivered
to the Nation of Israel on the Mt. but as your about to learn, it
actually predates them completely. The law is not just a "jewish"
covenant.
One interesting fact we learn about Abraham is that he kept God's law.
Notice Genesis 26:5: "Because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My
charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws." Interestingly, in
the midst of a narrative book, we read a comment that indicates
clearly that Abraham kept the laws of God, and that those laws, though
yet to be codified for the nation of Israel, were in existence well
before Sinai. Thus we see that Abraham, referred to as the "father of
the faithful" in the New Testament, was one who kept the commandments
of God.
From the very beginning, God established a family relationship with
man. In the Garden of Eden, man is described as walking and talking
freely with God (Genesis 2:19-25). Man and woman have a direct and
loving relation with God without fear or guilt. They look to God as
their Father, and God looks to them as His children.
Sin, the violation of God's law (1 John 3:4), has as a penalty-death
(Romans 6:23). This new factor of sin would radically change man's
standing before God (Genesis 3:19, 24). Paul notes, "Therefore, just
as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and
thus death spread to all men, because all sinned" (Romans 5:12).
Their disobedience was a monumental folly that drastically altered
their access to God. No longer would man have free access to God, nor
be without sin or have direct access to eternal life. Some generations
later, God saw that only Noah was following His ways and laws. This
means, it should be recognized, that God's basic commandments were
already in force.
Throughout Genesis, we see that man is to avoid sin, which throughout
the Bible means transgressing God's laws. He should keep the Sabbath
(compare 2:2-3), not murder (4:6-11), not commit adultery (39:7-9),
not steal (44:4), not envy (37:11), not take the name of God in
vain(12:8), not make idols and not follow false gods (35:1-2).
Regrettably, man's relations with God and his fellow man had
deteriorated so much by Noah's day due to the multiplication of sin
that God had no other recourse but to eliminate this totally corrupt
society and begin again with Noah's family.
After the Flood, Noah offered a sacrifice of gratitude to God for
having saved them.
Then, God established a new covenant with Noah, based on the same
basic commandments, but now with several new provisions to better
administer some of those laws.
The previous pact is thus "inserted" into the new one, though
amplified and modified. Man is authorized by God to stem violence by
applying capital punishment to murderers, a clear dispensation of
human government (Genesis 9:5-6). Other stipulations of the previous
covenant are still valid. The effects of Adam's transgression continue
to affect all of mankind. Women still give birth with pain, man has to
live and toil by the sweat of his brow due to the reduced fertility of
the soil and he has to fend off wild creatures. Death still reigns
over all men since they all sin. Sacrifices are still offered to God
as a sign of gratefulness and to recognize the penalty of sin as
death.
This new covenant also includes a promise never to destroy mankind in
the same manner no matter what happens in the future. As a sign of
this promise, God tells Noah, "The rainbow shall be in the cloud, and
I will look on it to remember the everlasting covenant between God and
every living creature of all flesh that is on the earth" (Genesis
9:16). Clearly, this provision of the Noachian covenant is,
thankfully, still in force today.
The next pact recorded is with Abraham. Through Abraham's faith and
obedience, God institutes a special relationship not only with
Abraham, but with his descendants through Isaac and Jacob. Great
promises would be made to Abraham-the physical promises to him and his
descendants and the spiritual promises of God's grace to all humanity,
through the promised Seed, Christ (Genesis 22:18; Galatians 3:15-18).
The sign of circumcision is given as a new covenant relationship with
Abraham's
descendants through Isaac and Jacob. God told Abraham: "As for you,
you shall keep My covenant, you and your descendants after you
throughout their generations. This is My covenant which you shall
keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you: Every male
child among you shall be circumcised" (Genesis 17:9-10). Though also
included later in the covenant at Sinai (Leviticus 12:3), circumcision
was originally introduced as a token of covenantal responsibilities
for all of Abraham's descendants, not just for the nations of Israel
and Judah. It came into existence as a token of covenant
responsibility, not as a badge of national superiority, as it was
later misrepresented in Judaism.
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| User: "randy" |
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| Title: Re: Did Christ void the Law 4, The final proof. |
25 Aug 2007 08:55:44 AM |
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"snowpheonix"
People commonly mistake the Ten Commandments as being
first delivered
to the Nation of Israel on the Mt. but as your about to
learn, it
actually predates them completely. The law is not just a
"jewish"
covenant.
1) The Law of Moses was in fact a "Jewish Covenant."
2) The Ten Commandments were first delivered on Mt.
Sinai/Horeb.
One interesting fact we learn about Abraham is that he
kept God's law.
Notice Genesis 26:5: "Because Abraham obeyed My voice and
kept My
charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws."
Interestingly, in
the midst of a narrative book, we read a comment that
indicates
clearly that Abraham kept the laws of God, and that those
laws, though
yet to be codified for the nation of Israel, were in
existence well
before Sinai. Thus we see that Abraham, referred to as the
"father of
the faithful" in the New Testament, was one who kept the
commandments
of God.
The existence of laws and customs prior to the codification
of the Law of Moses does not mean that the Law of Moses
preexisted itself!
randy
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| User: "snowpheonix" |
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| Title: Re: Did Christ void the Law 4, The final proof. |
25 Aug 2007 09:09:12 AM |
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On Aug 25, 11:55 pm, "randy" <rkl...@wavecable.com> wrote:
Gen 22:18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be
blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.
Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my
commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
2Ki 18:12 Because they obeyed not the voice of the LORD their God,
but transgressed his covenant, and all that Moses the servant of the
LORD commanded, and would not hear them, nor do them.
The existence of laws and customs prior to the codification
of the Law of Moses does not mean that the Law of Moses
preexisted itself!
randy-
Rev 22:13 "I am the 'Aleph' and the 'Taw', the Beginning and the End,
the First and the Last.
You keep calling Elohim's commandments, the Law of Moses and yet I've
clearly shown that the same words and Law were in the bible before
even the flood!
I know.. anything to keep your false religion.
Rev 22:14 "Blessed are those doing His commands, so that the authority
shall be theirs unto the tree of life, and to enter through the gates
into the city.
Rev 22:15 "But outside are the dogs and those who enchant with drugs,
and those who *****, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and all who
love and do falsehood.1 Footnote: 1See 21:27, 2 Thess. 2:11.
Jer 7:23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and
I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the
ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.
So tell me how it's only for the Jews...
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| User: "randy" |
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| Title: Re: Did Christ void the Law 4, The final proof. |
25 Aug 2007 11:16:10 AM |
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"snowpheonix"
"randy"
Gen 22:18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the
earth be
blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.
God's laws and commandments existed from the beginning. God
created man in His own image, meaning that moral imperatives
were built into the mind of Adam.
The laws of conscience are not to be confused with the laws
of Moses. The Law is a covenant system designed specifically
for Israel. The law of human conscience is written on the
heart of all men.
The existence of laws and customs prior to the
codification
of the Law of Moses does not mean that the Law of Moses
preexisted itself!
Rev 22:13 "I am the 'Aleph' and the 'Taw', the Beginning
and the End,
the First and the Last.
God remains holy through all ages, and yet He has offered
changing sets of laws. None of this reflects a change in
God's holiness, but only a change in human circumstances. Do
you question the fact that mankind *changes?*
You keep calling Elohim's commandments, the Law of Moses
and yet I've
clearly shown that the same words and Law were in the
bible before
even the flood!
The Law of Moses was a specific set of laws codified into a
particular covenant, given to Israel. This Law does not
include all previous laws and all law since! If I took a law
out of Buddhism that spelled out the need for peace, and
compared it with a Christian commandment that recommends
love for your neighbor, this does not thereby prove that
they represent identical systems!
So tell me how it's only for the Jews...
That's just what God and Moses said.
randy
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| User: "snowpheonix" |
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| Title: Re: Did Christ void the Law 4, The final proof. |
25 Aug 2007 01:02:02 PM |
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On Aug 26, 2:16 am, "randy" <rkl...@wavecable.com> wrote:
The Law of Moses was a specific set of laws codified into a
particular covenant, given to Israel. This Law does not
include all previous laws and all law since! If I took a law
out of Buddhism that spelled out the need for peace, and
compared it with a Christian commandment that recommends
love for your neighbor, this does not thereby prove that
they represent identical systems!
So tell me how it's only for the Jews...
That's just what RANDY said.
randy
Notice that you can't use a single scripture to support your point of
view and you can't even give a referance to it. That's becaue you
don't have it.. So you run around in denail but you've been warned by
the scriptures and I've put them in front of your eyes.
If you choose to make your own doctrine then call yourself a Suntian
and not a Christian because you ignore Christ. You make up a doctrine
based on
Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments
is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Mar 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart,
and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy
strength: this is the first commandment.
Mar 12:31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy
neighbor as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than
these.
Mar 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said
the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
Mar 12:33 And to love him with all the heart and with all the
understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and
to love his neighbor as himself, is more than all whole burnt
offerings and sacrifices.
Mar 12:34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly he said unto
him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that
durst ask him any question.
But had you loved God you would have loved his words and not said they
fell on your deaf ears saying everybody else is a sinner and I am
righteous.
The Law indeed is dead in you.
Zec 7:12 Yea, they made their hearts as an adamant stone, lest they
should hear the law, and the words which the LORD of hosts hath sent
in his spirit by the former prophets: therefore came a great wrath
from the LORD of hosts.
Zec 7:13 Therefore it is come to pass, that as he cried, and they
would not hear; so they cried, and I would not hear, saith the LORD of
hosts:
Zec 7:14 But I scattered them with a whirlwind among all the nations
whom they knew not. Thus the land was desolate after them, that no man
passed through nor returned: for they laid the pleasant land desolate.
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| User: "randy" |
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| Title: Re: Did Christ void the Law 4, The final proof. |
26 Aug 2007 10:33:33 AM |
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"snowpheonix"
"randy"
The Law of Moses was a specific set of laws codified into
a
particular covenant, given to Israel. This Law does not
include all previous laws and all law since! If I took a
law
out of Buddhism that spelled out the need for peace, and
compared it with a Christian commandment that recommends
love for your neighbor, this does not thereby prove that
they represent identical systems!
Notice that you can't use a single scripture to support
your point of
view and you can't even give a referance to it. That's
becaue you
don't have it.. So you run around in denail but you've
been warned by
the scriptures and I've put them in front of your eyes.
What isn't supported by Scriptures? The above points are so
well-defined by Scriptures that I felt no need to constantly
repeat the proofs. What in particular do you need proven in
Scriptures? Is it that the Law was directed to Israel? It is
stated repeatedly in the Law. You can also see it in the
prophets. One of the most well-quoted passages in the
prophets is Amos 3:1 ¶ Hear this word that the LORD has
spoken against you, O people of Israel, against the whole
family which I brought up out of the land of Egypt:
2 "You only have I known of all the families of the earth;
therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.
As for your claim that any previous law that resembles the
Law of Moses is necessarily to be identified as "the Law,"
that is so silly it doesn't need refutation. As I showed you
above, you wouldn't confuse Buddhism and Christianity simply
because they both call for peace. A particular covenant
system is defined by its own stated parameters. And the Law
of Moses defined itself by its own set of laws that all hung
together as a single system and which required that all of
the parts be functioning in order to make the whole system
work. It even defined its beginning point, when the
Israelites arrived at Mount Sinai. This means that not even
the first Passover was part of the Law of Moses until it
formally became part of the entire body of law we now refer
to as the "Law of Moses." Not even circumcision became part
of the Law until it was formally incorporated into that
particular system of law.
randy
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| User: "Mikal119" |
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| Title: Re: Did Christ void the Law 4, The final proof. |
25 Aug 2007 01:37:24 PM |
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On Aug 25, 1:02 pm, snowpheonix <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
On Aug 26, 2:16 am, "randy" <rkl...@wavecable.com> wrote:
The Law of Moses was a specific set of laws codified into a
particular covenant, given to Israel. This Law does not
include all previous laws and all law since! If I took a law
out of Buddhism that spelled out the need for peace, and
compared it with a Christian commandment that recommends
love for your neighbor, this does not thereby prove that
they represent identical systems!
So tell me how it's only for the Jews...
That's just what RANDY said.
randy
Notice that you can't use a single scripture to support your point of
view and you can't even give a referance to it. That's becaue you
don't have it.. So you run around in denail but you've been warned by
the scriptures and I've put them in front of your eyes.
If you choose to make your own doctrine then call yourself a Suntian
and not a Christian because you ignore Christ. You make up a doctrine
based on
Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments
is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Mar 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart,
and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy
strength: this is the first commandment.
Mar 12:31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy
neighbor as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than
these.
Mar 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said
the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
Mar 12:33 And to love him with all the heart and with all the
understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and
to love his neighbor as himself, is more than all whole burnt
offerings and sacrifices.
Mar 12:34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly he said unto
him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that
durst ask him any question.
But had you loved God you would have loved his words and not said they
fell on your deaf ears saying everybody else is a sinner and I am
righteous.
The Law indeed is dead in you.
Zec 7:12 Yea, they made their hearts as an adamant stone, lest they
should hear the law, and the words which the LORD of hosts hath sent
in his spirit by the former prophets: therefore came a great wrath
from the LORD of hosts.
Zec 7:13 Therefore it is come to pass, that as he cried, and they
would not hear; so they cried, and I would not hear, saith the LORD of
hosts:
Zec 7:14 But I scattered them with a whirlwind among all the nations
whom they knew not. Thus the land was desolate after them, that no man
passed through nor returned: for they laid the pleasant land desolate.
All the law and prophets rest on two commands.
Did you forget that?
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| User: "snowpheonix" |
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| Title: Re: Did Christ void the Law 4, The final proof. |
25 Aug 2007 02:30:18 PM |
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On Aug 26, 4:37 am, Mikal119 <adravi...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Aug 25, 1:02 pm, snowpheonix <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
On Aug 26, 2:16 am, "randy" <rkl...@wavecable.com> wrote:
The Law of Moses was a specific set of laws codified into a
particular covenant, given to Israel. This Law does not
include all previous laws and all law since! If I took a law
out of Buddhism that spelled out the need for peace, and
compared it with a Christian commandment that recommends
love for your neighbor, this does not thereby prove that
they represent identical systems!
So tell me how it's only for the Jews...
That's just what RANDY said.
randy
Notice that you can't use a single scripture to support your point of
view and you can't even give a referance to it. That's becaue you
don't have it.. So you run around in denail but you've been warned by
the scriptures and I've put them in front of your eyes.
If you choose to make your own doctrine then call yourself a Suntian
and not a Christian because you ignore Christ. You make up a doctrine
based on
Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments
is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:
Mar 12:30 And thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart,
and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind, and with all thy
strength: this is the first commandment.
Mar 12:31 And the second is like, namely this, Thou shalt love thy
neighbor as thyself. There is none other commandment greater than
these.
Mar 12:32 And the scribe said unto him, Well, Master, thou hast said
the truth: for there is one God; and there is none other but he:
Mar 12:33 And to love him with all the heart and with all the
understanding, and with all the soul, and with all the strength, and
to love his neighbor as himself, is more than all whole burnt
offerings and sacrifices.
Mar 12:34 And when Jesus saw that he answered discreetly he said unto
him, Thou art not far from the kingdom of God. And no man after that
durst ask him any question.
But had you loved God you would have loved his words and not said they
fell on your deaf ears saying everybody else is a sinner and I am
righteous.
The Law indeed is dead in you.
Zec 7:12 Yea, they made their hearts as an adamant stone, lest they
should hear the law, and the words which the LORD of hosts hath sent
in his spirit by the former prophets: therefore came a great wrath
from the LORD of hosts.
Zec 7:13 Therefore it is come to pass, that as he cried, and they
would not hear; so they cried, and I would not hear, saith the LORD of
hosts:
Zec 7:14 But I scattered them with a whirlwind among all the nations
whom they knew not. Thus the land was desolate after them, that no man
passed through nor returned: for they laid the pleasant land desolate.
All the law and prophets rest on two commands.
Did you forget that?
And had you loved the Lord you would have kept his Sabbath and Kept
his words but instead you have taken to anothers.
Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to
give every man according as his work shall be.
Rev 22:13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first
and the last.
Rev 22:14 Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may
have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates
into the city.
Rev 22:15 For without are dogs, and sorcerers, and whoremongers, and
murderers, and idolaters, and whosoever loveth and maketh a lie.
Rev 22:16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these
things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and
the bright and morning star.
Rev 22:17 And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that
heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever
will, let him take the water of life freely.
Rev 22:18 For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the
prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God
shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:
Rev 22:19 And if any man shall take away from the words of the book
of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of
life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written
in this book.
Rev 22:20 He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come
quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.
Rev 22:21 The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.
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| User: "Mistylien" |
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| Title: Re: Did Christ void the Law 4, The final proof. |
27 Aug 2007 01:39:40 AM |
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"snowpheonix" <snowpheonix@eck.net.au> wrote in message
news:1188050952.396778.84310@l22g2000prc.googlegroups.com...
On Aug 25, 11:55 pm, "randy" <rkl...@wavecable.com> wrote:
Gen 22:18 And in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be
blessed; because thou hast obeyed my voice.
I think some place in the new testament it tell of People
that were not of the Children of Israel that did not have the Law but
kept the law anyway with out even knowing it and their sins were
not counted against them.
Gen 26:5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my
commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
2Ki 18:12 Because they obeyed not the voice of the LORD their God,
but transgressed his covenant, and all that Moses the servant of the
LORD commanded, and would not hear them, nor do them.
The existence of laws and customs prior to the codification
of the Law of Moses does not mean that the Law of Moses
preexisted itself!
randy-
Rev 22:13 "I am the 'Aleph' and the 'Taw', the Beginning and the End,
the First and the Last.
You keep calling Elohim's commandments, the Law of Moses and yet I've
clearly shown that the same words and Law were in the bible before
even the flood!
I know.. anything to keep your false religion.
Rev 22:14 "Blessed are those doing His commands, so that the authority
shall be theirs unto the tree of life, and to enter through the gates
into the city.
Jesus was/is that tree of life some place it says that or implies that.
but it may be Hidden in the Words.
Rev 22:15 "But outside are the dogs and those who enchant with drugs,
and those who *****, and the murderers, and the idolaters, and all who
love and do falsehood.1 Footnote: 1See 21:27, 2 Thess. 2:11.
Jer 7:23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and
I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the
ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.
So tell me how it's only for the Jews...
Jews may well mean those that dwell in the New Jerusalem.
Jesus started to build that "New Jerusalem" the very day he came
out of the grave on resurrection day starting with Mary Magdalene.
See John 20:10-18,
and all of Luke 24.
M,
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| User: "cindys" |
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| Title: Re: Did Christ void the Law 4, The final proof. |
27 Aug 2007 08:22:46 AM |
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"Mistylien" <yardholler@charter.net> wrote in message
news:GmuAi.60$c47.51@newsfe03.lga...
"snowpheonix" <snowpheonix@eck.net.au> wrote in message
So tell me how it's only for the Jews...
Jews may well mean those that dwell in the New Jerusalem.
No, we don't mean that. I don't even know what "New Jerusalem" is, and the
Jewish perspective on Judaism never includes anything about Jesus...ever.
When Jews say the torah is only for Jews, we mean that God established a
covenant between Himself and the Jewish people at the foot of Mt. Sinai
after He took us out of Egypt. The torah is an everlasting covenant between
God and the Jewish people for all generations, and it's not remotely
connected to Jesus or "the messiah" or "the resurrection" or "New Jerusalem"
(whatever that is).
Best regards.
---Cindy S.
Jesus started to build that "New Jerusalem" the very day he came
out of the grave on resurrection day starting with Mary Magdalene.
See John 20:10-18,
and all of Luke 24.
M,
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| User: "Mistylien" |
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| Title: Re: Did Christ void the Law 4, The final proof. |
27 Aug 2007 11:33:33 PM |
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"cindys" <cstein1@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
news:46d2d02d$0$16515$4c368faf@roadrunner.com...
"Mistylien" <yardholler@charter.net> wrote in message
news:GmuAi.60$c47.51@newsfe03.lga...
"snowpheonix" <snowpheonix@eck.net.au> wrote in message
So tell me how it's only for the Jews...
Jews may well mean those that dwell in the New Jerusalem.
No, we don't mean that. I don't even know what "New Jerusalem" is, and the Jewish
perspective on Judaism never includes anything about Jesus...ever.
When Jews say the torah is only for Jews, we mean that God established a covenant
between Himself and the Jewish people at the foot of Mt. Sinai after He took us out of
Egypt. The torah is an everlasting covenant between God and the Jewish people for all
generations, and it's not remotely connected to Jesus or "the messiah" or "the
resurrection" or "New Jerusalem" (whatever that is).
Best regards.
---Cindy S.
Well here is a little accepted fact;
Jesus has been building that NEW JERUSALEM. from the very day He came
out of the grave.
Jesus was crucified dead and burried so that fulfilled the law that your
Messiah and that marriage was finished.
You need not look for another Messiah to come for the Children of Israel
for they rejected their Messiah 2,000 years ago thus cancelling that
Marriage contract for all Jews of the old covenant.
Now you all must come to Jesus one at a time under the new Covenant.
Just a partial introduction to the Messiah that then gave the covenant
to the Gentiles and we do not reject.
Our Lord and Messiah and redeemer is and has been the chief Corner stone
in the temple of the New Jerusalem.
However you can not walk in that temple as did you ancestors when the
Messiah was with you before Jerusalem was sacked in 70 AD.
Be blessed in you new search for the Messiah that was crucified in 31 AD
M,
Creator Lord God.
Jesus started to build that "New Jerusalem" the very day he came
out of the grave on resurrection day starting with Mary Magdalene.
See John 20:10-18,
and all of Luke 24.
M,
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| User: "" |
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| Title: Re: Did Christ void the Law 4, The final proof. |
01 Sep 2007 04:43:35 AM |
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On Aug 24, 10:01 am, snowpheonix <snowpheo...@eck.net.au> wrote:
People commonly mistake the Ten Commandments as being first delivered
to the Nation of Israel on the Mt. but as your about to learn, it
actually predates them completely. The law is not just a "jewish"
covenant.
One interesting fact we learn about Abraham is that he kept God's law.
Notice Genesis 26:5: "Because Abraham obeyed My voice and kept My
charge, My commandments, My statutes and My laws." Interestingly, in
the midst of a narrative book, we read a comment that indicates
clearly that Abraham kept the laws of God, and that those laws, though
yet to be codified for the nation of Israel, were in existence well
before Sinai. Thus we see that Abraham, referred to as the "father of
the faithful" in the New Testament, was one who kept the commandments
of God.
From the very beginning, God established a family relationship with
man. In the Garden of Eden, man is described as walking and talking
freely with God (Genesis 2:19-25). Man and woman have a direct and
loving relation with God without fear or guilt. They look to God as
their Father, and God looks to them as His children.
Sin, the violation of God's law (1 John 3:4), has as a penalty-death
(Romans 6:23). This new factor of sin would radically change man's
standing before God (Genesis 3:19, 24). Paul notes, "Therefore, just
as through one man sin entered the world, and death through sin, and
thus death spread to all men, because all sinned" (Romans 5:12).
Their disobedience was a monumental folly that drastically altered
their access to God. No longer would man have free access to God, nor
be without sin or have direct access to eternal life. Some generations
later, God saw that only Noah was following His ways and laws. This
means, it should be recognized, that God's basic commandments were
already in force.
Throughout Genesis, we see that man is to avoid sin, which throughout
the Bible means transgressing God's laws. He should keep the Sabbath
(compare 2:2-3), not murder (4:6-11), not commit adultery (39:7-9),
not steal (44:4), not envy (37:11), not take the name of God in
vain(12:8), not make idols and not follow false gods (35:1-2).
Regrettably, man's relations with God and his fellow man had
deteriorated so much by Noah's day due to the multiplication of sin
that God had no other recourse but to eliminate this totally corrupt
society and begin again with Noah's family.
After the Flood, Noah offered a sacrifice of gratitude to God for
having saved them.
Then, God established a new covenant with Noah, based on the same
basic commandments, but now with several new provisions to better
administer some of those laws.
The previous pact is thus "inserted" into the new one, though
amplified and modified. Man is authorized by God to stem violence by
applying capital punishment to murderers, a clear dispensation of
human government (Genesis 9:5-6). Other stipulations of the previous
covenant are still valid. The effects of Adam's transgression continue
to affect all of mankind. Women still give birth with pain, man has to
live and toil by the sweat of his brow due to the reduced fertility of
the soil and he has to fend off wild creatures. Death still reigns
over all men since they all sin. Sacrifices are still offered to God
as a sign of gratefulness and to recognize the penalty of sin as
death.
This new covenant also includes a promise never to destroy mankind in
the same manner no matter what happens in the future. As a sign of
this promise, God tells Noah, "The rainbow shall be in the cloud, and
I will look on it to remember the everlasting covenant between God and
every living creature of all flesh that is on the earth" (Genesis
9:16). Clearly, this provision of the Noachian covenant is,
thankfully, still in force today.
The next pact recorded is with Abraham. Through Abraham's faith and
obedience, God institutes a special relationship not only with
Abraham, but with his descendants through Isaac and Jacob. Great
promises would be made to Abraham-the physical promises to him and his
descendants and the spiritual promises of God's grace to all humanity,
through the promised Seed, Christ (Genesis 22:18; Galatians 3:15-18).
The sign of circumcision is given as a new covenant relationship with
Abraham's
descendants through Isaac and Jacob. God told Abraham: "As for you,
you shall keep My covenant, you and your descendants after you
throughout their generations. This is My covenant which you shall
keep, between Me and you and your descendants after you: Every male
child among you shall be circumcised" (Genesis 17:9-10). Though also
included later in the covenant at Sinai (Leviticus 12:3), circumcision
was originally introduced as a token of covenantal responsibilities
for all of Abraham's descendants, not just for the nations of Israel
and Judah. It came into existence as a token of covenant
responsibility, not as a badge of national superiority, as it was
later misrepresented in Judaism.
I really enjoyed reading this, thanks.
.
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| User: "snowpheonix" |
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| Title: Re: Did Christ void the Law 4, The final proof. |
24 Aug 2007 08:43:04 PM |
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The Expositor's Bible Commentary has an interesting comment on Genesis
26:5:
The Lord then added a remarkable note: Abraham "kept my requirements
[mismarti], my commands [miswotay], my decrees [huqqotay] and my laws
[wetorotay]" (v. 5). It is remarkable that this is precisely the way
in which obedience to the Sinai covenant is expressed in Deuteronomy
11:1: "Love the LORD your God and keep his requirements [mismarto],
his decrees [huqqotayw], his laws [mispatayw] and his commands
[miswotayw]".... Thus Abraham is an example of one who shows the law
written on his
heart (Jeremiah 31:33). He is the writer's ultimate example of true
obedience to the law, the one about whom the Lord could say, "Abraham
obeyed me" (v. 5). Thus, by showing Abraham to be an example of
"keeping the law," the writer has shown the nature of the relationship
between the law and faith. Abraham, a man who lived in faith, could be
described as one who kept the law (Vol. 2, pp. 186-187).
As a result of this covenant, God promised Abraham and his descendants
the land of Canaan. From a small family, the 12 descendants of Jacob
would become 12 tribes and Joseph's descendants would eventually
become a great nation and a company of nations (Genesis 48-49).
The Sinai Covenant
We now come to the covenant struck at Mount Sinai between God and the
nation of Israel, mediated by Moses (though the Ten Commandments were
given directly by God to Israel). As we review the terms and
conditions surrounding this covenant, we will see that it differs
radically from the previous covenants. For God was here initiating
what is later referred to as a marriage covenant with a special group
of people considered as one entity. In Exodus 19, in a preamble to
this "Old" covenant (though there was nothing old about it at the
time), the history of the relationship between God and Israel is
briefly surveyed (verse 4), and the covenant is proposed (verses 5-6).
If the people obey God's voice and keep His covenant, "you shall be a
special treasure to Me above all people; for all the earth is Mine.
And you shall be to Me a kingdom of priests and a holy nation." The
rapid, somewhat blithe assent of
the people in verse 8 suggests they focused on the promise of national
prominence, with little or
no attention to their own responsibilities in the covenant. Exodus 20
follows with the delivery of the Ten Commandments-an event of enormous
importance. Indeed the "Ten Words" are unique in the relationship
between God and Israel.
Unlike the large body of legislation delivered later as part of this
Sinaitic covenant, the Ten Commandments are unmediated. The people
hear the voice of God Himself, as these 10 points of supremely holy
law are uttered by the voice of the Almighty from atop Mount Sinai.
Without the mediating presence of Moses, the people of Israel hear the
Ten Commandments, the heart of the covenant.
Without a doubt, the Ten Commandments represent the heart and core of
the Old Covenant (Exodus 34:28; Deuteronomy 4:13). The portents and
the unmediated delivery of these Commandments raise them above the
many other laws to follow. But the observation that they are the heart
of the Old Covenant only begs the question of their status in the New
Covenant. Exodus 34:28 and Deuteronomy 4:13 say that they are
intrinsic to the Sinaitic covenant. But these verses make no prophetic
declaration about the status of the Commandments in the future New
Covenant to be enacted later by Jesus Christ. Yet it is a mistake to
misread these verses as saying that the Ten Commandments are limited
to the Old Covenant only (as some have claimed). The question of their
application in the New Testament will be examined later in this paper.
Israel was now a nation, and an extensive governmental system was
needed to better regulate their conduct in accordance with the
Commandments and promises given. At this time, God also adds an
elaborate section of laws to this new covenant that deals with the
problem of sin for an entire people that, on the whole, did not have
the attitude or conduct of Abraham. Moses knew that most of the
Israelites did not have the proper heart to keep God's covenant or His
Commandments. He told them at the end of his life, "...the LORD has not
given you a heart to perceive and eyes to see and ears to hear, to
this very day" (Deuteronomy 29:4).
He later adds, "Take this Book of the Law, and put it beside the ark
of the covenant of the LORD your God, that it may be there as a
witness against you; for I know your rebellion and your stiff neck. If
today, while I am yet alive with you, you have been rebellious against
the LORD, then how much more after my death?" (Deuteronomy 31:26-27).
Elements of the Sinai Covenant
Exodus chapters 21 through 23 are referred to as the "Book of the
Covenant" (Exodus 24:7), as they present many laws central to the
government of Israel, as decreed by God at that time. The Sinai
covenant differs from the one-man covenants in its degree of detail.
The legislation seeks to cover, at least in principle, every major
aspect of national life, including penalties for various criminal
acts, conduct of the priesthood, arrangement of the physical trappings
of the sanctuary, ceremonial laws governing cleanliness, laws of
sexual morality, animal control laws, matters such as tithing and
festivals, and many others. One gets the impression from the great
volume of requirements and the exhaustive detail that much of it is
necessitated by a lack of spiritual fiber on the part of this
covenant's recipients. Nowhere else in the pages of Scripture does God
enter into a covenant that places so many explicit stipulations on the
people.
Exodus 25 through 31 contains elaborate and specific details regarding
the design of the tabernacle, and the vestments, consecration and
responsibilities of Aaron and the other priests. Offerings, articles
and artisans for the tabernacle follow (35:4-36:1), along with a
detailed description of the construction of the tabernacle
(36:2-40:38).
Other aspects of the Old Covenant are included in the book of
Leviticus: detailed instructions for the Aaronic priesthood and for
the Levites; a listing of the annual festivals and Holy Days, combined
with instructions concerning the animal sacrifices for some of these
days (23:1-44); and delineation between clean and unclean animals
(11:1-47), with implications for diet and animal sacrifice. Toward the
end of this book, a lengthy list of blessings for obedience and curses
for disobedience is provided as a warning to the Israelites (26:3-45).
It is interesting to note that the blessings associated with this
covenant are all physical: if they are obedient, they will receive
agricultural blessings in the form of good crops (verses 4, 5 and 10)
and military success in battle (verses 6-8). A comparison of this list
of blessings in Leviticus 26:3-13 with the slightly longer list in
Deuteronomy 28:1-14 reveals an obvious omission: though God says He
will be their God, and they His people (Leviticus 26:11-13;
Deuteronomy 28:9), there is no promise of eternal life in this
covenant.
God did reveal to His especially selected servants throughout the Old
Testament the promise of a future resurrection and eternal life in His
Kingdom (1 Peter 1:10-12). But, at best, the carnal-minded Israelites
only received physical blessings from the Old Covenant-such as
bountiful harvests, security from their enemies, health and a
prosperous life. Eternal life was not promised to them. So all the
blessings of the Sinai covenant are primarily physical, not spiritual.
In reading the apostle Paul's much later writings on the subject of
the covenants, this fact becomes supremely important.
In all this legislation we find nothing short of a complete national
system, designed to cover in principle every aspect of national life
in Israel. Matters priestly, criminal, devotional, moral and
ceremonial are all included in the package. The laws of Moses,
presented to Israel, constitute a total package of laws designed for a
carnal, physical people in the service of God. A close examination
reveals that the laws are generally not presented with the expectation
that the people will respond in a spiritual manner. A physical,
potentially rebellious response is within the purview of most of these
laws.
So an entire system of sacrifices and persons to administer them was
set up. Sin would be a present reality in the nation of Israel, and
access to God would be limited. A tabernacle was needed to separate a
mostly sinful people from the holiness of God. God wanted to continue
a strong and loving relationship with these people, based on His
promises to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. But in order to do so, some
provisional laws had to be enacted to keep the sins of the people from
contaminating their privileged relation with God.
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| User: "snowpheonix" |
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| Title: Re: Did Christ void the Law 4, The final proof. |
25 Aug 2007 08:23:54 AM |
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I think it's funny. What? no law is dead preaching?
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| User: "Mistylien" |
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| Title: Re: Did Christ void the Law 4, The final proof. |
27 Aug 2007 01:28:10 AM |
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"snowpheonix" <snowpheonix@eck.net.au> wrote in message
news:1188048234.865761.98620@z24g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
I think it's funny. What? no law is dead preaching?
Sorry I can only post to 4 NGs at a time with my server.
No law dead!
Only fulfilled in Jesus Christ.
The He said on these 2 rules hang the whole law"
Love God and Love you neighbor as yourself.
M,
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