| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Pastor Dave" |
| Date: |
25 Apr 2007 02:30:10 PM |
| Object: |
Did Jesus Fail? |
Dispensationalists believe that Jesus failed.
Now I believe God's word, in which He says that His word
would not come back void. Yet the Dispensationalist belief
says that Jesus came to set up an earthly kingdom and that
the people rejected Him and He was crucified and so, the
earthly kingdom was postponed.
They will deny that they believe this, but it is what they
believe and when cornered, it always comes out! (:
So I ask, what about the prophecies that Jesus would
be crucified?
In Isaiah and in Psalms and in other places, it says clearly
that Christ would die! So how could Christ have come to
set up an earthly kingdom and not get it done, when in
reality, He came to die?!?
It seems to ne that Dispensationalism contradicts
the Scriptures!!!
"For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked
have enclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet."
- Psalm 22:16
Mark 8:31-33
31) And he began to teach them, that the Son of man
must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders,
and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and
after three days rise again.
32) And he spake that saying openly. And Peter took him,
and began to rebuke him.
33) But when he had turned about and looked on his
disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me,
Satan: for thou savorest not the things that be of God,
but the things that be of men.
It seems to me that they are just as much Satan, as Peter was,
for saying what He said and they say the same thing today!!!
Acts 17:2-3
2) And Paul, as his manner was, went in unto them,
and three sabbath days reasoned with them OUT OF
THE SCRIPTURES,
3) Opening and alleging, that Christ MUST NEEDS
HAVE SUFFERED, and risen again from the dead;
and that this Jesus, whom I preach unto you, is Christ.
The Futurist/Dispensationalist view is defeated, by its claim
that Christ was defeated. It is not a Lord that they worship,
but a defeated man, who could not accomplish what He
came to do and it is a defeated God that they worship,
who could not send His word forth, so that it would not
come back void.
According to them, God's word was to set up an earthly
nation of Israel again and to be enthroned king on Earth
and He failed to do this, which places God at the mercy
of man's decisions, instead of the other way around!
When I say to them that their belief is based on what Darby
preached, which is that Jesus came to set up an earthly
kingdom, but that He failed and so, it was postponed,
they claim that I am wrong and that their beliefs were
not based on that idea.
Yet, here they are, when cornered, confessing that their
belief is indeed based on the idea that Jesus came to set
up an earthly kingdom and failed to do so and so it was
postponed!
So to them, Jesus came not to redeem man spiritually,
but to redeem some dirt. (:
And I don't accept the claim that "He didn't fail. It was
the people who failed to accept Him". That's a load of crap!
Either God's word cannot come back void, or God is a liar!
And THEY claim that His word states that Christ was supposed
to come and set up an earthly kingdom, but now say that
the people rejected Him and so it was postponed, thereby
by default claiming that God's word came back void,
while ignoring the prophecies of Christ's crucifixion and
on top of that, proving themselves liars when they claim
not to believe what Darby preached about this! (:
Shame, shame, shame on them and their Dispensational
cronies, people!!! (:
Here are the facts:
1) God said His word would not come back void.
God accomplishes all that he sets out to do.
Both of these ideas are very Biblical, as you know!
2) They claim that He came to do it and that it didn't happen!
That means that God sent His Son to do this and that
IT FAILED!!! Therefore, God's word came back void,
according to them!!!
3) The Scriptures say Jesus came to suffer and die. They say
that He came to live a life and set up an earthly kingdom
and failed and so, it was postponed.
You decide folks. Whom do you believe? Jesus Christ?
Or the Dispensationalists, which is pretty much all Futurists?
Luke 17:20-21
20) Now when He was asked by the Pharisees when
the kingdom of God would come, He answered them
and said; The kingdom of God does NOT come with
observation;
21) Nor will they say, ‘See here!’ or ‘See there!’
For indeed, the kingdom of God is WITHIN you.
Note that Jesus said the following:
The word "observation" is translated from a Greek word.
Parateresis - Inspection, that is, ocular evidence
Ocular = Of or relating to the eye; the sense of sight.
So let's compare what Jesus said, to what the Futurist
doctrine claims.
Jesus: The Kingdom of God does *NOT* come with observation
(seeing by the human eye).
Futurism: The Kingdom of God *WILL* come with observation
(seeing by the human eye).
Jesus: They will *NOT* be able to point at it and say,
"Look! There it is!".
Futurism: They *WILL* be able to point at it and say,
"Look! There it is!".
Hmmmm.... That doesn't seem to me to be an accurate
assessment of what the Bible says, on the part of the
Futurists. And yet, they keep claiming that what they're
saying, "is in the Bible". Does that seem right to you?
It seems ot me that Jesus repeatedly said that He didn't
come to set up an earthly kingdom and yet, the Futurists/
Dispensationalists repeatedly claim that He did and that
He failed and so, was crucified.
Thus, the crucifixion, which is the central point of our
faith...
"For I determined not to know any thing among you,
save Jesus Christ, and him crucified." - 1 Corinthians 2:2
....to them, is not the center of our faith, but rather,
has become a consolation prize. What a shame. (:
You know, maybe this post will sound mean to some,
but I guess I just can't understand how anyone could
look at our Lord on the cross, paying for our sins with
His blood, as a consolation prize. Something that
happened because He failed. (:
And one more thing... How can they claim that,
"Jesus is the Lord of my life!", when they don't
even believe that He accomplished what He came
to do?!?
"For this is my blood of the new testament, which is shed
for many for the remission of sins." - Matthew 26:28
"Now is my soul troubled; and what shall I say?
Father, save me from this hour: but for this cause
came I unto this hour." - John 12:27
"But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than
the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with
glory and honor; that he by the grace of God should
taste death for every man. Forasmuch then as the
children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also
himself likewise took part of the same; that through
death he might destroy him that had the power of
death, that is, the devil" - Hebrews 2:9,14a
Let us note that Jesus NEVER, EVER taught a physical
Kingdom of God on Earth, that people could see with
the eye and point at and say, "Look! There it is!".
NEVER AND NOT ONCE!
So when any Futurist, preaching this "national Israel
is God's people" doctrine claims that what they read
elsewhere in the Scriptures proves their claim, they
are really saying that Jesus was wrong and they are
pitting the Bible against itself! (:
So you decide. Did Jesus succeed? Or did He fail?
--
The torture of a bad conscience, is the Hell
of a living soul. - John Calvin
.
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| User: "Ghamph" |
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| Title: Re: Did Jesus Fail? |
25 Apr 2007 02:41:37 PM |
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"Pastor Dave" ...
Self proclaimed (pastor) Dave failed to prove that the non-existent God son
didn't fail.
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| User: "Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun]" |
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| Title: Re: Did Jesus Fail? |
26 Apr 2007 06:02:26 AM |
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Pastor Dave a ecrit :
Dispensationalists believe that Jesus failed.
FALSE.
Now I believe God's word, in which He says that His word
would not come back void. Yet the Dispensationalist belief
says that Jesus came to set up an earthly kingdom and that
the people rejected Him and He was crucified and so, the
earthly kingdom was postponed.
They will deny that they believe this, but it is what they
believe and when cornered, it always comes out! (:
So I ask, what about the prophecies
there are no such prophecies in the TaNaKh.
that Jesus would
be crucified?
as the 'worthless shepherd' the `yeshua bar aba` / Barabbas character
yielded to 'destiny".
.
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| User: "Mistylien" |
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| Title: Re: Did Jesus Fail? |
27 Apr 2007 01:11:59 AM |
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"Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun]" <hasatan@grex.cyberspace.org> wrote in message
news:1177585346.276272.283570@c18g2000prb.googlegroups.com...
Pastor Dave a ecrit :
Dispensationalists believe that Jesus failed.
FALSE.
Now I believe God's word, in which He says that His word
would not come back void. Yet the Dispensationalist belief
says that Jesus came to set up an earthly kingdom and that
the people rejected Him and He was crucified and so, the
earthly kingdom was postponed.
They will deny that they believe this, but it is what they
believe and when cornered, it always comes out! (:
So I ask, what about the prophecies
there are no such prophecies in the TaNaKh.
Do you have Daniel 9 in your book what ever you wish to call it??
that Jesus would
be crucified?
as the 'worthless shepherd' the `yeshua bar aba` / Barabbas character
yielded to 'destiny".
.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: Did Jesus Fail? |
25 Apr 2007 04:20:59 PM |
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Pastor Dave wrote:
Dispensationalists believe that Jesus failed.
Now I believe God's word, in which He says that His word
would not come back void. Yet the Dispensationalist belief
says that Jesus came to set up an earthly kingdom and that
the people rejected Him and He was crucified and so, the
earthly kingdom was postponed.
They will deny that they believe this, but it is what they
believe and when cornered, it always comes out! (:
So I ask, what about the prophecies that Jesus would
be crucified?
In Isaiah and in Psalms and in other places, it says clearly
that Christ would die!
===>That is a HUGE LIE.
There is no such thing said about any "Christ"
anywhere in Isaiah or Psalms.
How does it feel to be such a blatant deceiver? -- L.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
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| User: "KlugeHans" |
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| Title: Re: Did Jesus Fail? |
25 Apr 2007 09:41:20 PM |
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In article <462fabcf$0$23226$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>, Libertarius
<Libertarius@nothingbutthe.truth> wrote:
Pastor Dave wrote:
Dispensationalists believe that Jesus failed.
Now I believe God's word, in which He says that His word
would not come back void. Yet the Dispensationalist belief
says that Jesus came to set up an earthly kingdom and that
the people rejected Him and He was crucified and so, the
earthly kingdom was postponed.
They will deny that they believe this, but it is what they
believe and when cornered, it always comes out! (:
So I ask, what about the prophecies that Jesus would
be crucified?
In Isaiah and in Psalms and in other places, it says clearly
that Christ would die!
===>That is a HUGE LIE.
There is no such thing said about any "Christ"
anywhere in Isaiah or Psalms.
How does it feel to be such a blatant deceiver? -- L.
There is also negligible evidence that the Jesus of the Bible had any
real historical existence
On this level we have a non existent person failing to fulfil non existent
prophecies
Whilst the religious sing songs about it
People are weird
"Listen again. One Evening at the Close
Of Ramazan, ere the better Moon arose,
In that old Potter's Shop I stood alone
With the clay Population round in Rows.
And, strange to tell, among that Earthen Lot
Some could articulate, while others not:
And suddenly one more impatient cried---
"Who *is* the Potter, pray, and who the Pot?"
Khyaam
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| User: "Ha SATAN [Sin Tet Nun]" |
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| Title: Re: Did Jesus Fail? |
26 Apr 2007 06:12:17 AM |
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KlugeHans a ecrit :
In article <462fabcf$0$23226$88260bb3@free.teranews.com>, Libertarius
<Libertarius@nothingbutthe.truth> wrote:
Pastor Dave wrote:
Dispensationalists believe that Jesus failed.
Now I believe God's word, in which He says that His word
would not come back void. Yet the Dispensationalist belief
says that Jesus came to set up an earthly kingdom and that
the people rejected Him and He was crucified and so, the
earthly kingdom was postponed.
They will deny that they believe this, but it is what they
believe and when cornered, it always comes out! (:
So I ask, what about the prophecies that Jesus would
be crucified?
In Isaiah and in Psalms and in other places, it says clearly
that Christ would die!
===>That is a HUGE LIE.
There is no such thing said about any "Christ"
anywhere in Isaiah or Psalms.
How does it feel to be such a blatant deceiver? -- L.
There is also negligible evidence that the Jesus of the Bible had any
real historical existence
On this level we have a non existent person failing to fulfil non existent
prophecies
Whilst the religious sing songs about it
People are weird
"Listen again. One Evening at the Close
Of Ramazan, ere the better Moon arose,
In that old Potter's Shop I stood alone
With the clay Population round in Rows.
And, strange to tell, among that Earthen Lot
Some could articulate, while others not:
And suddenly one more impatient cried---
"Who *is* the Potter, pray, and who the Pot?"
Khyaam
http://www.okonlife.com/poems/index.htm
Apt in this case.
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