Greetings...

On Mon, 18 Jun 2007 20:39:25 -0700, Libertarius <Libertarius@nothingbutthe.truth> wrote:

===>THE ANSWER IS:
The Eden story is a SATIRE depicting a thoughtless, bungling, lying,
jealous and vidictive deity worshipped by the Yahwist Cult.

In no way did the author consider EITHER "plan", since that clumsy
"creator" didn't have any plan. A few pages later he is admitting
that he is SORRY he made man and animals and is ready to kill them
all by drowning. Then he changes his incompetent mind and decides
to save a few of the humans and animals he is
so disturbed about. ;-) -- L.

I was just about to killfile you Liber - But then I remembered why I was here...
PEV! Pure Entertainment Value. And so far - you seem to fit the bill! I'll do my part
if you do yours...

You don't swear or name call (so far that I have seen YET) , you attempt to argue
logically (as best you can, given your limited knowledge of the Bible).

We'll see if you really are as open minded as you seem to be...

I have a simple question: Have you actually read the book for yourself, or do you base
your answers on what you have heard about the book.

the answer you have, will tell you a lot about where my respect for your abilities to
reason lie.

Come let us reason together...
Consider this:

The Eden Story - The Fall from Grace, or as I like to call it - The loss of innocence
story. Is not a satire as you describe - But is in fact a story about a long suffering
wizened father dealing with and putting up with some rather standard issue bratty
children, all the way to kicking them out of the house when they turn 18....

Substitute "Bottle of beer" for tree of knowledge, and Mother's milk for tree of life....
Replace "Eating" with learning, or in the beer case - drinking...

In fact - modernize the entire setting - And what do you get?

You get this story -

Liber was sitting in front of the TV after work one day, drinking a nice cold beer after a
hard days work, when his 4 year old son toddled into the room, saw the bottle and said
Daddy I want! Liber being a wise father replied - You have to wait until you are older
Son. Trust me son, you do NOT want to drink beer at your age. It would make you sick!

Many years later - say about 14 years later in fact - the son now being 18, His girlfriend
and some other tattooed dude are constantly hanging out at Liber's house, eating his food,
enjoying his heat in the winter, the air conditioning in the summer - not only will they
NOT mow the lawn, But they are stealing his beer!!

Yeah - It's time the little ingrate got a job, his own money, his own apartment and his
own damn beer isn't it? Yeah - Suddenly it's no longer a story about a thoughtless,
bungling, lying, jealous and vindictive deity - It's a story about children growing up and
a long suffering LOVING father finally kicking the little bastards out of his house...

Just how opened minded are you Liber? A little knowledge is a dangerous thing... Let no
man deceive you....

Let's consider the flood story now -
But the Eden story is much much more than all that Liber - It's also a declaration of war!

The Flood story is not only established History (we can get into that later)- It's also a
morality play - An episode of Your favorite TV program. Remember the Tattooed Guy and the
Girlfriend from my earlier example? - Well, they were such a BAD influence on your son -
They got him started stealing your beer - Well, now they are going to get him into Sex,
drugs and rock and roll! And pretty soon, your son is going to end up in jail, with
AIDS, or worse - Dead...

So what do you do?

You destroy his world - or rather his world view that carousing and partying and doing all
the feel-good things that in HIS mind are good - is really just foolishness and self
destruction - that that kind of behavior is just a path to death.

But you have to temper this entire concept with a sense of scale: You and your son in
this story corresponds to God and the entire Human race in Noah's Flood...

You see - The story applies on both scales...
And the lessons are exactly the same... The Wages of sin is DEATH.

Only when you finally GET-IT that there may be more to the story than what you have heard
about it - will you ever have even the beginnings of understanding. Which is why I asked
you earlier if you ACTUALLY read the book for yourself - Or were you just blindly
parroting something that someone else told you...

Let no man deceive you...

If there is only ONE Concept that you should get - It's this: Every relationship with
God is personal. You - Not some proxy are the one who must stand alone before God. If I
were you - I wouldn't trust some other dude's claims - I'd want to read it for myself and
make up my own mind...

You see - That's the essential difference between believers and non-believers. Believers
have a guaranteed Proxy who takes our place before God after judging us himself. Our
Proxy is Christ. God's Own Son. The ONLY one who can stand in the presence of God.
Non-Believers don't have that proxy. They choose to stand alone in life - so they stand
alone in death.

Liber - I'm not here to convert you - Honestly, I couldn't care less if you ever believe.
I'm here PURELY because it entertains me. And I just LOVE a good contentious argument,
and religion is one of the best argumentation tools known to man. An Endless supply of
entertainment...

Like I said Liber - (<churchlady voice> Satan hehee) - If you do your job - I'll do mine,
and together, maybe we'll both learn something and enjoy our time here together...












ll
Kanda'

<>SPAM-KILLER<>- If you really want to contact me, then -
kandaje<at>bresnan<dot>net
Providing good honest memes - even if you don't get it yet..
You figure it out...