Difficult Questions for Futurists to Answer



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Topic: Religions > Bible
User: "Pastor Dave"
Date: 23 Feb 2006 09:41:37 AM
Object: Difficult Questions for Futurists to Answer
Difficult Questions For Futurists To Answer
New Heaven and New Earth
QUESTION #1:
Assuming the earth will be destroyed with fire,
and all the nations of the earth will be destroyed
along with it, why, when the "New Earth" or
"New Jerusalem" comes, why will the nations
need healing (Revelation 22:2)? How can you
heal something that is already dead and burned?
If the New Jerusalem is the saved of all ages, when
all things have ended and we have embarked into
eternity; when sin, death, Hades and Satan have
all been cast into the lake of fire; all evil has been
disposed of, sin has been finally purged; there is
no more sickness, no more hunger or thirst; the
former things shall not be remembered or even
come to mind; why would they need healing if
they are now in eternal bliss?
QUESTION #2:
Why would the gates of this city be left open
if everything outside this city is destroyed
(Revelation.21:25)? If everyone outside these
gates were burned up and there is nobody
left alive outside these gates, why are there
people still entering through the gates into
the city after the New Jerusalem comes down
from Heaven (Revelation 21:24)?
QUESTION #3:
If, in the New Heaven and New Earth, there will
be no more death, why does the Bible say there
WILL still be physical death in the New Heaven
and New Earth (Isaiah 65:20, 66:24)?
QUESTION #4:
If, after the New Heaven and New Earth come,
there will be no more sin, why does Isaiah say
there WILL still be sin (Isaiah 65:20)? Even
Jesus Christ said there would still be sin in
the next age (Matthew 12:32, Revelation 22:15).
And Revelation says that, after the New Jerusalem
comes, there will still be sinners (Revelation 21:27).
QUESTION #5:
If the New Jerusalem is a physical place, and it will
physically come down to earth, why did Jesus say it
would not come with observation, and that people
would not say "look here or look there"
(Luke 17:20-21)? Why not say "look" if it will come
with observation? Can it possibly be because it will
be a spiritual kingdom and not a physical one?
Return of Christ
This next question is concerning the question the
disciples asked in Matthew 24:3: "And what will
be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"
Here are a few facts first.
Jesus talked to his disciples about his death but
the apostles did not understand it at all (Matthew
16:21-22, Mark 8:31-32; 9:31-32, Luke 9:44-45;
18:31-34, John 13:33-14:6; 16:16-18). This last
account in the Gospel of John takes place after Jesus
had given them the Olivet discourse (Matthew 24)
and they still did not understand that Jesus was going
to leave them and die. After all, he was God...how can
God die? They had no idea of Jesus leaving, then
coming again (John 12:34).
The disciples expected Jesus to be their physical King
and set up a worldly Kingdom at his First Coming
(John 6:15, Luke 24:21), not at his Second Coming.
So did others (Luke 17:20-21; 19:11). Even after the
crucifixion, they still had no concept about his Second
Coming, because they still thought he was going to
give them a physical Kingdom at that time (Acts 1:6).
QUESTION #6:
If the apostles had no idea that Jesus was going
to leave them, why would they ask Him about
His return (Matthew 24:3)? How could the disciple
have asked a question about something they knew
nothing about?
QUESTION #7:
If Jesus is going to come down physically on
the Mount of Olives, why did Christ warn
"Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here
is Christ, or there; believe it not" (Matthew 24:23)?
Why can't we believe someone who would say,
"Lo there is Christ descending on the Mount of
Olives!"? Can it possibly be because it will be
a spiritual coming and not a physical one?
Passing of Mosaic Law
Matthew 5:17-18, "Think not that I am come
to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not
come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say
unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot
or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law,
till all be fulfilled."
QUESTION #8:
Jesus came to fulfil the law. He specifically stated
WHEN the Mosaic Law would pass. It would pass
when "heaven and earth pass" and when "all (prophesy)
be fulfilled". If heaven and earth did not pass, and
if all prophesy has not been fulfilled, why, dear
reader, are you not keeping the Mosaic law? Jesus
said it would not pass, and must be obeyed, until
these things happen.
Resurrected Body
QUESTION #9:
If Christ was actually in His eternal physical
resurrection body, will we be raised with the
same physical body and likeness as Christ was
raised with (1 John 3:2)?
a) Was He physical? Will we have that same
physical body?
b) Was He any age? What age? Will we be
the same age as Christ?
c) Will we too have scars that we had previously?
Christ did.
d) Will we all be raised male? Christ was.
e) What about babies? Will they be raised as babies?
Or will all people suddenly be raised at the prime age
of 30 like Christ?
f) What about the food Christ ate? Obviously it took
teeth to chew. Did the food get caught in His teeth?
Did it have to go into His colon and out His *****?
Did Christ take that into heaven?
g) Will we have genitalia? Christ did. If you believe
that Christ was raised with the exact same physical
body (just eternal now), then you must believe He
still has genitalia.
Back to the New Heaven and Earth
QUESTION #10:
If the world is destroyed and all sinners are cast into
the lake of fire and the New Jerusalem comes down
and is a physical city, then who are the sinners
outside the gates of the city (Revelation 22:14-15)?
And why does John call the city "the bride"? The
angel shows John "the bride of the Lamb", which
is the city, since that is what the angel shows John,
after saying that (Revelation 21:9-10). Isn't the
bride of Christ the church? Could it be that the
New Jerusalem is a symbolic representation of
the church?
http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/difficult.html
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
The Last Days were in the first century:
Matthew 3:7,10,12
7) But when He saw many of the Pharisees and
Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto
THEM, O generation of vipers, who hath warned
YOU to flee from the wrath to come?
10) And NOW also the axe is laid unto the root
of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth
not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into
the fire.
12) Whose fan is in his hand, and he will
throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat
into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff
with unquenchable fire.
.

User: "Cleo"

Title: Re: Difficult Questions for Futurists to Answer 23 Feb 2006 10:42:01 AM
"Pastor Dave" <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:onkrv19pqtktelrs3tcif9gjapvdat9ppj@4ax.com...



Difficult Questions For Futurists To Answer


New Heaven and New Earth

QUESTION #1:

Assuming the earth will be destroyed with fire,
and all the nations of the earth will be destroyed
along with it, why, when the "New Earth" or
"New Jerusalem" comes, why will the nations
need healing (Revelation 22:2)? How can you
heal something that is already dead and burned?
If the New Jerusalem is the saved of all ages, when
all things have ended and we have embarked into
eternity; when sin, death, Hades and Satan have
all been cast into the lake of fire; all evil has been
disposed of, sin has been finally purged; there is
no more sickness, no more hunger or thirst; the
former things shall not be remembered or even
come to mind; why would they need healing if
they are now in eternal bliss?


QUESTION #2:

Why would the gates of this city be left open
if everything outside this city is destroyed
(Revelation.21:25)? If everyone outside these
gates were burned up and there is nobody
left alive outside these gates, why are there
people still entering through the gates into
the city after the New Jerusalem comes down
from Heaven (Revelation 21:24)?


QUESTION #3:

If, in the New Heaven and New Earth, there will
be no more death, why does the Bible say there
WILL still be physical death in the New Heaven
and New Earth (Isaiah 65:20, 66:24)?


QUESTION #4:

If, after the New Heaven and New Earth come,
there will be no more sin, why does Isaiah say
there WILL still be sin (Isaiah 65:20)? Even
Jesus Christ said there would still be sin in
the next age (Matthew 12:32, Revelation 22:15).
And Revelation says that, after the New Jerusalem
comes, there will still be sinners (Revelation 21:27).


QUESTION #5:

If the New Jerusalem is a physical place, and it will
physically come down to earth, why did Jesus say it
would not come with observation, and that people
would not say "look here or look there"
(Luke 17:20-21)? Why not say "look" if it will come
with observation? Can it possibly be because it will
be a spiritual kingdom and not a physical one?


Return of Christ

This next question is concerning the question the
disciples asked in Matthew 24:3: "And what will
be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"

Here are a few facts first.

Jesus talked to his disciples about his death but
the apostles did not understand it at all (Matthew
16:21-22, Mark 8:31-32; 9:31-32, Luke 9:44-45;
18:31-34, John 13:33-14:6; 16:16-18). This last
account in the Gospel of John takes place after Jesus
had given them the Olivet discourse (Matthew 24)
and they still did not understand that Jesus was going
to leave them and die. After all, he was God...how can
God die? They had no idea of Jesus leaving, then
coming again (John 12:34).

The disciples expected Jesus to be their physical King
and set up a worldly Kingdom at his First Coming
(John 6:15, Luke 24:21), not at his Second Coming.
So did others (Luke 17:20-21; 19:11). Even after the
crucifixion, they still had no concept about his Second
Coming, because they still thought he was going to
give them a physical Kingdom at that time (Acts 1:6).

QUESTION #6:

If the apostles had no idea that Jesus was going
to leave them, why would they ask Him about
His return (Matthew 24:3)? How could the disciple
have asked a question about something they knew
nothing about?


QUESTION #7:

If Jesus is going to come down physically on
the Mount of Olives, why did Christ warn
"Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here
is Christ, or there; believe it not" (Matthew 24:23)?
Why can't we believe someone who would say,
"Lo there is Christ descending on the Mount of
Olives!"? Can it possibly be because it will be
a spiritual coming and not a physical one?


Passing of Mosaic Law

Matthew 5:17-18, "Think not that I am come
to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not
come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say
unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot
or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law,
till all be fulfilled."

QUESTION #8:

Jesus came to fulfil the law. He specifically stated
WHEN the Mosaic Law would pass. It would pass
when "heaven and earth pass" and when "all (prophesy)
be fulfilled". If heaven and earth did not pass, and
if all prophesy has not been fulfilled, why, dear
reader, are you not keeping the Mosaic law? Jesus
said it would not pass, and must be obeyed, until
these things happen.


Resurrected Body

QUESTION #9:

If Christ was actually in His eternal physical
resurrection body, will we be raised with the
same physical body and likeness as Christ was
raised with (1 John 3:2)?

a) Was He physical? Will we have that same
physical body?

b) Was He any age? What age? Will we be
the same age as Christ?

c) Will we too have scars that we had previously?
Christ did.

d) Will we all be raised male? Christ was.

e) What about babies? Will they be raised as babies?
Or will all people suddenly be raised at the prime age
of 30 like Christ?

f) What about the food Christ ate? Obviously it took
teeth to chew. Did the food get caught in His teeth?
Did it have to go into His colon and out His *****?
Did Christ take that into heaven?

g) Will we have genitalia? Christ did. If you believe
that Christ was raised with the exact same physical
body (just eternal now), then you must believe He
still has genitalia.


Back to the New Heaven and Earth

QUESTION #10:

If the world is destroyed and all sinners are cast into
the lake of fire and the New Jerusalem comes down
and is a physical city, then who are the sinners
outside the gates of the city (Revelation 22:14-15)?
And why does John call the city "the bride"? The
angel shows John "the bride of the Lamb", which
is the city, since that is what the angel shows John,
after saying that (Revelation 21:9-10). Isn't the
bride of Christ the church? Could it be that the
New Jerusalem is a symbolic representation of
the church?

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/difficult.html



--

"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34

The Last Days were in the first century:

Matthew 3:7,10,12

7) But when He saw many of the Pharisees and
Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto
THEM, O generation of vipers, who hath warned
YOU to flee from the wrath to come?
10) And NOW also the axe is laid unto the root
of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth
not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into
the fire.
12) Whose fan is in his hand, and he will
throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat
into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff
with unquenchable fire.

Interesting questions. I have saved them and will answer when I am finished.
Cleo


.

User: "jb"

Title: Re: Difficult Questions for Futurists to Answer 23 Feb 2006 05:39:26 PM
"Pastor Dave" <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:onkrv19pqtktelrs3tcif9gjapvdat9ppj@4ax.com...



Difficult Questions For Futurists To Answer


New Heaven and New Earth

QUESTION #1:

Assuming the earth will be destroyed with fire,
and all the nations of the earth will be destroyed
along with it, why, when the "New Earth" or
"New Jerusalem" comes, why will the nations
need healing (Revelation 22:2)? How can you
heal something that is already dead and burned?
If the New Jerusalem is the saved of all ages, when
all things have ended and we have embarked into
eternity; when sin, death, Hades and Satan have
all been cast into the lake of fire; all evil has been
disposed of, sin has been finally purged; there is
no more sickness, no more hunger or thirst; the
former things shall not be remembered or even
come to mind; why would they need healing if
they are now in eternal bliss?


QUESTION #2:

Why would the gates of this city be left open
if everything outside this city is destroyed
(Revelation.21:25)? If everyone outside these
gates were burned up and there is nobody
left alive outside these gates, why are there
people still entering through the gates into
the city after the New Jerusalem comes down
from Heaven (Revelation 21:24)?


QUESTION #3:

If, in the New Heaven and New Earth, there will
be no more death, why does the Bible say there
WILL still be physical death in the New Heaven
and New Earth (Isaiah 65:20, 66:24)?


QUESTION #4:

If, after the New Heaven and New Earth come,
there will be no more sin, why does Isaiah say
there WILL still be sin (Isaiah 65:20)? Even
Jesus Christ said there would still be sin in
the next age (Matthew 12:32, Revelation 22:15).
And Revelation says that, after the New Jerusalem
comes, there will still be sinners (Revelation 21:27).


QUESTION #5:

If the New Jerusalem is a physical place, and it will
physically come down to earth, why did Jesus say it
would not come with observation, and that people
would not say "look here or look there"
(Luke 17:20-21)? Why not say "look" if it will come
with observation? Can it possibly be because it will
be a spiritual kingdom and not a physical one?


Return of Christ

This next question is concerning the question the
disciples asked in Matthew 24:3: "And what will
be the sign of Your coming, and of the end of the age?"

Here are a few facts first.

Jesus talked to his disciples about his death but
the apostles did not understand it at all (Matthew
16:21-22, Mark 8:31-32; 9:31-32, Luke 9:44-45;
18:31-34, John 13:33-14:6; 16:16-18). This last
account in the Gospel of John takes place after Jesus
had given them the Olivet discourse (Matthew 24)
and they still did not understand that Jesus was going
to leave them and die. After all, he was God...how can
God die? They had no idea of Jesus leaving, then
coming again (John 12:34).

The disciples expected Jesus to be their physical King
and set up a worldly Kingdom at his First Coming
(John 6:15, Luke 24:21), not at his Second Coming.
So did others (Luke 17:20-21; 19:11). Even after the
crucifixion, they still had no concept about his Second
Coming, because they still thought he was going to
give them a physical Kingdom at that time (Acts 1:6).

QUESTION #6:

If the apostles had no idea that Jesus was going
to leave them, why would they ask Him about
His return (Matthew 24:3)? How could the disciple
have asked a question about something they knew
nothing about?


QUESTION #7:

If Jesus is going to come down physically on
the Mount of Olives, why did Christ warn
"Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here
is Christ, or there; believe it not" (Matthew 24:23)?
Why can't we believe someone who would say,
"Lo there is Christ descending on the Mount of
Olives!"? Can it possibly be because it will be
a spiritual coming and not a physical one?


Passing of Mosaic Law

Matthew 5:17-18, "Think not that I am come
to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not
come to destroy, but to fulfil. For verily I say
unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot
or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law,
till all be fulfilled."

QUESTION #8:

Jesus came to fulfil the law. He specifically stated
WHEN the Mosaic Law would pass. It would pass
when "heaven and earth pass" and when "all (prophesy)
be fulfilled". If heaven and earth did not pass, and
if all prophesy has not been fulfilled, why, dear
reader, are you not keeping the Mosaic law? Jesus
said it would not pass, and must be obeyed, until
these things happen.


Resurrected Body

QUESTION #9:

If Christ was actually in His eternal physical
resurrection body, will we be raised with the
same physical body and likeness as Christ was
raised with (1 John 3:2)?

a) Was He physical? Will we have that same
physical body?

b) Was He any age? What age? Will we be
the same age as Christ?

c) Will we too have scars that we had previously?
Christ did.

d) Will we all be raised male? Christ was.

e) What about babies? Will they be raised as babies?
Or will all people suddenly be raised at the prime age
of 30 like Christ?

f) What about the food Christ ate? Obviously it took
teeth to chew. Did the food get caught in His teeth?
Did it have to go into His colon and out His *****?
Did Christ take that into heaven?

g) Will we have genitalia? Christ did. If you believe
that Christ was raised with the exact same physical
body (just eternal now), then you must believe He
still has genitalia.


Back to the New Heaven and Earth

QUESTION #10:

If the world is destroyed and all sinners are cast into
the lake of fire and the New Jerusalem comes down
and is a physical city, then who are the sinners
outside the gates of the city (Revelation 22:14-15)?
And why does John call the city "the bride"? The
angel shows John "the bride of the Lamb", which
is the city, since that is what the angel shows John,
after saying that (Revelation 21:9-10). Isn't the
bride of Christ the church? Could it be that the
New Jerusalem is a symbolic representation of
the church?

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/difficult.html



--

"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34

The Last Days were in the first century:

Matthew 3:7,10,12

7) But when He saw many of the Pharisees and
Sadducees come to his baptism, he said unto
THEM, O generation of vipers, who hath warned
YOU to flee from the wrath to come?
10) And NOW also the axe is laid unto the root
of the trees: therefore every tree which bringeth
not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into
the fire.
12) Whose fan is in his hand, and he will
throughly purge his floor, and gather his wheat
into the garner; but he will burn up the chaff
with unquenchable fire.

I am more a Preterist and certainly not a Dispensational futurist, but I
would be interested in how you answer some of these. The book of
Revelations is pretty simple it tells you when it has to happen in the first
verse and a couple of other places. When does shortly not mean shortly? I
love it when people who claim to be literalists do just the opposite when it
comes to time frame with absolutely no scriptural justification. How can
you literally make a gap of years in a prophecy that really does not allow
for any? When it comes to Bible prophecy some people by their futurist
notions are literally saying the prophecy (s) are false. Which of course
they are not, but those that give us a clear time frame need to have
happened in that time frame. And this makes a lot of sense when you know
history and the figurative language used by prophets in the Old Testament.
(stars falling etc.)
.
User: "Pastor Dave"

Title: Re: Difficult Questions for Futurists to Answer 24 Feb 2006 05:50:25 AM
On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 16:39:26 -0700, "jb"
<jbenbo(4)@netscape.net> spake thusly:

I am more a Preterist and certainly not a Dispensational futurist, but I
would be interested in how you answer some of these.

No offense intended, but the idea isn't for me to
answer them, but for others to.
In other words, I do not wish to have people ignoring
the questions and trying to argue MY answers. I want
to see THEIR answers, if they can even provide any.
Thus far, all I have seen, is people ignoring the
questions and telling me what I'm supposed to believe.

The book of
Revelations is pretty simple it tells you when it has to happen in the first
verse and a couple of other places. When does shortly not mean shortly? I
love it when people who claim to be literalists do just the opposite when it
comes to time frame with absolutely no scriptural justification. How can
you literally make a gap of years in a prophecy that really does not allow
for any? When it comes to Bible prophecy some people by their futurist
notions are literally saying the prophecy (s) are false. Which of course
they are not, but those that give us a clear time frame need to have
happened in that time frame. And this makes a lot of sense when you know
history and the figurative language used by prophets in the Old Testament.
(stars falling etc.)

Agreed. These are points that I have stressed
repeatedly. They are also points that the vanity
of futurism does not wish to hear. Futurists
like the Bible just fine, until it says something
that means that it's not all about them today.
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
The Last Days were in the first century:
Romans 13:11-2
11) And that, knowing the time, that NOW it is
high time to awake out of sleep: for NOW is our
salvation nearer than when we believed.
12) The night is far spent, the day is AT HAND:
let us therefore cast off the works of darkness,
and let us put on the armor of light.
.
User: "jb"

Title: Re: Difficult Questions for Futurists to Answer 24 Feb 2006 08:41:59 AM
"Pastor Dave" <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:nhstv19ahjou8udv6g2fn51i9k2mc35dsa@4ax.com...

On Thu, 23 Feb 2006 16:39:26 -0700, "jb"
<jbenbo(4)@netscape.net> spake thusly:


I am more a Preterist and certainly not a Dispensational futurist, but I
would be interested in how you answer some of these.


No offense intended, but the idea isn't for me to
answer them, but for others to.

In other words, I do not wish to have people ignoring
the questions and trying to argue MY answers. I want
to see THEIR answers, if they can even provide any.
Thus far, all I have seen, is people ignoring the
questions and telling me what I'm supposed to believe.

****Your method of presenting things is ok I suppose, but first someone
has to sift though all the scriptures to see if you presented things
accurately. In some cases your questions may not be valid to begin with.
This of course must be investigated. I would rather just state a clear
position with the scriptures without demeaning anybody if they disagree or
have a different opinion. Someone who is secure in their position does
not have to resort to any intimidation or ridiculing tactics I find so
common on the newsgroups. Sometimes I wonder if some Christians don't
pick up the spirit of this age being full of bitterness and contention
rather than love , joy and peace. I am not saying that is necessarily
you.

.
User: "Pastor Dave"

Title: Re: Difficult Questions for Futurists to Answer 24 Feb 2006 08:58:16 AM
On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 07:41:59 -0700, "jb"
<jbenbo(4)@netscape.net> spake thusly:

****Your method of presenting things is ok I suppose, but first someone
has to sift though all the scriptures to see if you presented things
accurately.

Maybe it's time they did that, instead of believing
whatever the TV and modern church preachers
and the books and movies tell them, which is what
they do and then sift the Bible through their doctrine,
instead of the other way around.
Maybe that's why the questions were asked?

In some cases your questions may not be valid to begin with.

The Scripture references were given. Find out.
Unless someone is scared that the Bible wasn't
written just for them? I guess people want to
believe that Jesus walked around speaking to
people, but actually ignoring them, just to talk
to us. (:
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
The Last Days were in the first century:
"For then must he often have suffered since
the foundation of the world: but NOW once
in THE END OF THE AGE hath He appeared
to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself."
- Hebrews 9:26
.




User: "Adam"

Title: Re: Difficult Questions for Futurists to Answer 23 Feb 2006 05:14:55 PM
You are starting out with the wrong assumptions.
I've told you before that "heaven" and "earth" in prophecy usually refer to
the "ruling classes" and the "common people" respectively.
You have rejected this and so you continue down a path of error and drag
others down with you.
The current heaven and earth is the kingdom of men. This will be destroyed
at the return of Christ.
The second heaven and earth is the millennium rule of the saints under
Christ. The saints only will be resurrected and Abraham will inherit the
land and David will rule over the common people in Israel.
And the third heaven and earth begins after the final resurrection when
there is no more death.
The future of mankind is on earth not in heaven. Until you understand this
basic fact you will continue down the path of error.
Adam.
.
User: "Ian Zech"

Title: Re: Difficult Questions for Futurists to Answer 23 Feb 2006 05:45:59 PM
"Adam" <adam@dodo.com> wrote in message
news:43fe41c8$0$93450$c30e37c6@ken-reader.news.telstra.net...

You are starting out with the wrong assumptions.
I've told you before that "heaven" and "earth" in prophecy usually refer
to the "ruling classes" and the "common people" respectively.
You have rejected this and so you continue down a path of error and drag
others down with you.

The current heaven and earth is the kingdom of men. This will be destroyed
at the return of Christ.
The second heaven and earth is the millennium rule of the saints under
Christ. The saints only will be resurrected and Abraham will inherit the
land and David will rule over the common people in Israel.
And the third heaven and earth begins after the final resurrection when
there is no more death.

The future of mankind is on earth not in heaven. Until you understand this
basic fact you will continue down the path of error.
Adam.

You're lying. There will be no physical return of Jesus on this planet.
There will be no millenium in which your pseudo-saints will rule. That is
*****. Abraham and David never existed. When you die, your body goes back
to earth. You don't know what the resurrection is like and neither do I.
Until you understand this and stop reading Herbert W. Armstrong's idiocies,
you will be posting the same stupidities, the same lies. Get out of that
sect, get rid of those charlatans and use your brain. You are like a blind
leading other blinds. You turned scriptures into American science fiction.


.

User: "Pastor Dave"

Title: Re: Difficult Questions for Futurists to Answer 24 Feb 2006 05:44:49 AM
On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 09:14:55 +1000, "Adam"
<adam@dodo.com> spake thusly:

You are starting out with the wrong assumptions.
I've told you before that "heaven" and "earth" in prophecy usually refer to
the "ruling classes" and the "common people" respectively.
You have rejected this and so you continue down a path of error and drag
others down with you.

The current heaven and earth is the kingdom of men. This will be destroyed
at the return of Christ.
The second heaven and earth is the millennium rule of the saints under
Christ. The saints only will be resurrected and Abraham will inherit the
land and David will rule over the common people in Israel.
And the third heaven and earth begins after the final resurrection when
there is no more death.

The future of mankind is on earth not in heaven. Until you understand this
basic fact you will continue down the path of error.
Adam.

The Bible does not teach eternity on Earth. And as for
your scenario, you have a problem...
"Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the
time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye
together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to
burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."
- Matthew 13:30
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
The Last Days were in the first century:
James 5:8-9
8) Be YE also patient; establish YOUR hearts:
for the coming of the Lord DRAWETH NIGH.
9) Grudge not one against another, brethren,
lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge
STANDETH BEFORE THE DOOR.
.
User: "Adam"

Title: Re: Difficult Questions for Futurists to Answer 24 Feb 2006 07:19:28 PM
"Pastor Dave" <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5cstv11dn91tth64l9i1p3cbjqobs09onq@4ax.com...

On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 09:14:55 +1000, "Adam"
<adam@dodo.com> spake thusly:

You are starting out with the wrong assumptions.
I've told you before that "heaven" and "earth" in prophecy usually refer
to
the "ruling classes" and the "common people" respectively.
You have rejected this and so you continue down a path of error and drag
others down with you.

The current heaven and earth is the kingdom of men. This will be destroyed
at the return of Christ.
The second heaven and earth is the millennium rule of the saints under
Christ. The saints only will be resurrected and Abraham will inherit the
land and David will rule over the common people in Israel.
And the third heaven and earth begins after the final resurrection when
there is no more death.

The future of mankind is on earth not in heaven. Until you understand this
basic fact you will continue down the path of error.
Adam.


The Bible does not teach eternity on Earth. And as for
your scenario, you have a problem...

"Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the
time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye
together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to
burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."
- Matthew 13:30

--

"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34

The Last Days were in the first century:

James 5:8-9

8) Be YE also patient; establish YOUR hearts:
for the coming of the Lord DRAWETH NIGH.
9) Grudge not one against another, brethren,
lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge
STANDETH BEFORE THE DOOR.

As far as I can tell there will be two resurrections.
The first one is the harvest and will occur at the return of Christ and it
will be for approved saints only - that is those who have received and still
possess the Holy Spirit at the time of their death. The presence of the Holy
Spirit is neccessary for sainthood and participation in the first
resurrection. Those saints who fell away from the faith will have had the
Holy Spirit removed from them (as Saul did) and will not be raised at the
first resurrection but will be raised for judgement at the final
resurrection together with the sinners. Thus the tares (fallen saints) will
be gathered to be burnt later. By the time these resurrections occur
everybody will have been pre-judged because their names will either be in
the book of life or not. The saints had their names in that book since
before the foundation of the world but some have been blotted out for
misconduct.
"This generation" could well be those who will witness the signs of the
times when they occur and correctly interpret them.
The reason I look for a future fulfillment is because there are some
prophecies that have not yet come to pass.
The Medes have not yet destroyed Babylon and the Babylonians have not yet
destroyed Tyre. The land of Israel has not yet been divided up in accordance
with Ezekiel's temple prophecy. I know that you brush these things aside but
there are too many things to be explained away in your scenario. It's worth
another look at these prophecies rather than passing them off as "symbolic"
of something or other.
Adam.
.
User: "Ian Zech"

Title: Re: Difficult Questions for Futurists to Answer 24 Feb 2006 07:53:35 PM
"Adam" <adam@dodo.com> wrote in message
news:43ffb078$0$93447$c30e37c6@ken-reader.news.telstra.net...


"Pastor Dave" <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5cstv11dn91tth64l9i1p3cbjqobs09onq@4ax.com...

On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 09:14:55 +1000, "Adam"
<adam@dodo.com> spake thusly:

You are starting out with the wrong assumptions.
I've told you before that "heaven" and "earth" in prophecy usually refer
to
the "ruling classes" and the "common people" respectively.
You have rejected this and so you continue down a path of error and drag
others down with you.

The current heaven and earth is the kingdom of men. This will be
destroyed
at the return of Christ.
The second heaven and earth is the millennium rule of the saints under
Christ. The saints only will be resurrected and Abraham will inherit the
land and David will rule over the common people in Israel.
And the third heaven and earth begins after the final resurrection when
there is no more death.

The future of mankind is on earth not in heaven. Until you understand
this
basic fact you will continue down the path of error.
Adam.


The Bible does not teach eternity on Earth. And as for
your scenario, you have a problem...

"Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the
time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye
together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to
burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."
- Matthew 13:30

--

"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34

The Last Days were in the first century:

James 5:8-9

8) Be YE also patient; establish YOUR hearts:
for the coming of the Lord DRAWETH NIGH.
9) Grudge not one against another, brethren,
lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge
STANDETH BEFORE THE DOOR.

As far as I can tell there will be two resurrections.
The first one is the harvest and will occur at the return of Christ and it
will be for approved saints only - that is those who have received and
still possess the Holy Spirit at the time of their death. The presence of
the Holy Spirit is neccessary for sainthood and participation in the first
resurrection. Those saints who fell away from the faith will have had the
Holy Spirit removed from them (as Saul did) and will not be raised at the
first resurrection but will be raised for judgement at the final
resurrection together with the sinners. Thus the tares (fallen saints)
will be gathered to be burnt later. By the time these resurrections occur
everybody will have been pre-judged because their names will either be in
the book of life or not. The saints had their names in that book since
before the foundation of the world but some have been blotted out for
misconduct.
"This generation" could well be those who will witness the signs of the
times when they occur and correctly interpret them.
The reason I look for a future fulfillment is because there are some
prophecies that have not yet come to pass.
The Medes have not yet destroyed Babylon and the Babylonians have not yet
destroyed Tyre. The land of Israel has not yet been divided up in
accordance with Ezekiel's temple prophecy. I know that you brush these
things aside but there are too many things to be explained away in your
scenario. It's worth another look at these prophecies rather than passing
them off as "symbolic" of something or other.
Adam.

Adam, listen to me. Get Armstrong off your head and realize that the idot
was but a charlatan. Stop reading futurist idiocies and get back to earth.
All of what you and other idiots on this planet consider prophecies have
been accomplished. You and other idiots like you cannot fortell the future.
You and other idiots like you are liars, sacred fortune tellers, scums of
our society. Get an education, life is worth living, you and those who think
like you should get medical help.
.
User: "Douglas W. Thomas"

Title: Re: Difficult Questions for Futurists to Answer 07 Mar 2006 11:15:39 PM
"Ian Zech" <Get@education.com> wrote in message
news:rMOLf.26209$%14.695149@news20.bellglobal.com...


"Adam" <adam@dodo.com> wrote in message
news:43ffb078$0$93447$c30e37c6@ken-reader.news.telstra.net...


"Pastor Dave" <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:5cstv11dn91tth64l9i1p3cbjqobs09onq@4ax.com...

On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 09:14:55 +1000, "Adam"
<adam@dodo.com> spake thusly:

You are starting out with the wrong assumptions.
I've told you before that "heaven" and "earth" in prophecy usually refer
to
the "ruling classes" and the "common people" respectively.
You have rejected this and so you continue down a path of error and drag
others down with you.

The current heaven and earth is the kingdom of men. This will be
destroyed
at the return of Christ.
The second heaven and earth is the millennium rule of the saints under
Christ. The saints only will be resurrected and Abraham will inherit the
land and David will rule over the common people in Israel.
And the third heaven and earth begins after the final resurrection when
there is no more death.

The future of mankind is on earth not in heaven. Until you understand
this
basic fact you will continue down the path of error.
Adam.


The Bible does not teach eternity on Earth. And as for
your scenario, you have a problem...

"Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the
time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye
together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to
burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."
- Matthew 13:30

--

"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34

The Last Days were in the first century:

James 5:8-9

8) Be YE also patient; establish YOUR hearts:
for the coming of the Lord DRAWETH NIGH.
9) Grudge not one against another, brethren,
lest ye be condemned: behold, the judge
STANDETH BEFORE THE DOOR.

As far as I can tell there will be two resurrections.
The first one is the harvest and will occur at the return of Christ and
it will be for approved saints only - that is those who have received and
still possess the Holy Spirit at the time of their death. The presence of
the Holy Spirit is neccessary for sainthood and participation in the
first resurrection. Those saints who fell away from the faith will have
had the Holy Spirit removed from them (as Saul did) and will not be
raised at the first resurrection but will be raised for judgement at the
final resurrection together with the sinners. Thus the tares (fallen
saints) will be gathered to be burnt later. By the time these
resurrections occur everybody will have been pre-judged because their
names will either be in the book of life or not. The saints had their
names in that book since before the foundation of the world but some have
been blotted out for misconduct.
"This generation" could well be those who will witness the signs of the
times when they occur and correctly interpret them.
The reason I look for a future fulfillment is because there are some
prophecies that have not yet come to pass.
The Medes have not yet destroyed Babylon and the Babylonians have not yet
destroyed Tyre. The land of Israel has not yet been divided up in
accordance with Ezekiel's temple prophecy. I know that you brush these
things aside but there are too many things to be explained away in your
scenario. It's worth another look at these prophecies rather than passing
them off as "symbolic" of something or other.
Adam.

Adam, listen to me. Get Armstrong off your head and realize that the idot
was but a charlatan. Stop reading futurist idiocies and get back to earth.
All of what you and other idiots on this planet consider prophecies have
been accomplished. You and other idiots like you cannot fortell the
future. You and other idiots like you are liars, sacred fortune tellers,
scums of our society. Get an education, life is worth living, you and
those who think like you should get medical help.


Oh ... I get it....everybody is an idiot but
you.....sure...yeah...uh-huh.....
Doug Thomas
.

User: "Rescue"

Title: Re: Difficult Questions...boycotted thread / mild explicatives used 24 Feb 2006 08:12:16 PM
Ian Zech wrote:

Adam, listen to me. Get Armstrong off your head and realize that the idot
was but a charlatan. Stop reading futurist idiocies and get back to earth.
All of what you and other idiots on this planet consider prophecies have
been accomplished. You and other idiots like you cannot fortell the future.
You and other idiots like you are liars, sacred fortune tellers, scums of
our society. Get an education, life is worth living, you and those who think
like you should get medical help.

we already know the future *****
get a grip!
say, what do you believe?
what do you believe
you believe in humping posts?
why not make a few of your own
stop humping everyone elses
.
User: "Ian Zech"

Title: Re: Difficult Questions...boycotted thread / mild explicatives used 24 Feb 2006 08:36:17 PM
"Rescue" <bigbadbarry@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:1140833536.563110.6220@e56g2000cwe.googlegroups.com...

Ian Zech wrote:

Adam, listen to me. Get Armstrong off your head and realize that the idot
was but a charlatan. Stop reading futurist idiocies and get back to
earth.
All of what you and other idiots on this planet consider prophecies have
been accomplished. You and other idiots like you cannot fortell the
future.
You and other idiots like you are liars, sacred fortune tellers, scums of
our society. Get an education, life is worth living, you and those who
think
like you should get medical help.


we already know the future *****

get a grip!


say, what do you believe?

what do you believe

you believe in humping posts?
why not make a few of your own
stop humping everyone elses

Hey, I've been on this newsgroup for the last 9 years. I know the idiots who
post on it, including you. Your futurist predictions are idiocies. What else
is there to add?
.



User: "Pastor Dave"

Title: Re: Difficult Questions for Futurists to Answer 25 Feb 2006 05:59:53 AM
On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 11:19:28 +1000, "Adam"
<adam@dodo.com> spake thusly:

As far as I can tell there will be two resurrections.
The first one is the harvest and will occur at the
return of Christ and it will be for approved saints only

Okay, I think you missed my point. :)
Please read the passage again...
"Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the
time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye
together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to
burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."
- Matthew 13:30
Now, who does it say is raised first?
One more question...
Since you believe that all of these resurrections
are in the future, is it correct to say then, that
you believe that besides the Father, Son, angels,
etc., there is no one in Heaven? Everyone is asleep?
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose
you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which
your fathers served that were on the other side of the
flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye
dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the
LORD. - Joshua 24:15
.
User: "Adam"

Title: Re: Difficult Questions for Futurists to Answer 25 Feb 2006 05:24:56 PM
"Pastor Dave" <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:feh00292ja1nusfct5ria0mc06caui9ecq@4ax.com...

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 11:19:28 +1000, "Adam"
<adam@dodo.com> spake thusly:


As far as I can tell there will be two resurrections.
The first one is the harvest and will occur at the
return of Christ and it will be for approved saints only


Okay, I think you missed my point. :)

Please read the passage again...

"Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the
time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye
together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to
burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."
- Matthew 13:30

Now, who does it say is raised first?

One more question...

Since you believe that all of these resurrections
are in the future, is it correct to say then, that
you believe that besides the Father, Son, angels,
etc., there is no one in Heaven? Everyone is asleep?

Every one is asleep in death.
"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven,
even the Son of man which is in heaven." (john 3:13)


--

"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34

And if it seem evil unto you to serve the LORD, choose
you this day whom ye will serve; whether the gods which
your fathers served that were on the other side of the
flood, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land ye
dwell: but as for me and my house, we will serve the
LORD. - Joshua 24:15

.
User: "Pastor Dave"

Title: Re: Difficult Questions for Futurists to Answer 25 Feb 2006 06:15:35 PM
On Sun, 26 Feb 2006 09:24:56 +1000, "Adam"
<adam@dodo.com> spake thusly:

"Pastor Dave" <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:feh00292ja1nusfct5ria0mc06caui9ecq@4ax.com...

On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 11:19:28 +1000, "Adam"
<adam@dodo.com> spake thusly:


As far as I can tell there will be two resurrections.
The first one is the harvest and will occur at the
return of Christ and it will be for approved saints only


Okay, I think you missed my point. :)

Please read the passage again...

"Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the
time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye
together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to
burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn."
- Matthew 13:30

Now, who does it say is raised first?

One more question...

Since you believe that all of these resurrections
are in the future, is it correct to say then, that
you believe that besides the Father, Son, angels,
etc., there is no one in Heaven? Everyone is asleep?

Every one is asleep in death.
"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven,
even the Son of man which is in heaven." (john 3:13)

You didn't answer my questions.
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
www.answersingenesis.org
.





User: "Pastor Dave"

Title: Re: Difficult Questions for Futurists to Answer 24 Feb 2006 05:46:02 AM
On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 09:14:55 +1000, "Adam"
<adam@dodo.com> spake thusly:

You are starting out with the wrong assumptions.
I've told you before that "heaven" and "earth" in prophecy usually refer to
the "ruling classes" and the "common people" respectively.
You have rejected this and so you continue down a path of error and drag
others down with you.

The current heaven and earth is the kingdom of men. This will be destroyed
at the return of Christ.
The second heaven and earth is the millennium rule of the saints under
Christ. The saints only will be resurrected and Abraham will inherit the
land and David will rule over the common people in Israel.
And the third heaven and earth begins after the final resurrection when
there is no more death.

The future of mankind is on earth not in heaven. Until you understand this
basic fact you will continue down the path of error.
Adam.

You have snipped every question and told me what
I'm supposed to believe. How does that show that
you have an answer for those questions, when all
you did was spit out your own personal doctrine
and snip the questions?
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
The Last Days were in the first century:
"But the end of all things is AT HAND: be YE
therefore sober, and watch unto prayer."
- 1 Peter 4:7
.
User: "Adam"

Title: Re: Difficult Questions for Futurists to Answer 24 Feb 2006 07:24:13 PM
"Pastor Dave" <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:vdstv1he4h5982s9datp5v10alsu2lmftt@4ax.com...

On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 09:14:55 +1000, "Adam"
<adam@dodo.com> spake thusly:


You are starting out with the wrong assumptions.
I've told you before that "heaven" and "earth" in prophecy usually refer
to
the "ruling classes" and the "common people" respectively.
You have rejected this and so you continue down a path of error and drag
others down with you.

The current heaven and earth is the kingdom of men. This will be destroyed
at the return of Christ.
The second heaven and earth is the millennium rule of the saints under
Christ. The saints only will be resurrected and Abraham will inherit the
land and David will rule over the common people in Israel.
And the third heaven and earth begins after the final resurrection when
there is no more death.

The future of mankind is on earth not in heaven. Until you understand this
basic fact you will continue down the path of error.
Adam.


You have snipped every question and told me what
I'm supposed to believe. How does that show that
you have an answer for those questions, when all
you did was spit out your own personal doctrine
and snip the questions?

--

"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34

The Last Days were in the first century:

"But the end of all things is AT HAND: be YE
therefore sober, and watch unto prayer."
- 1 Peter 4:7

The reason I snipped your questions was because you started off with a wrong
assumption.
"Assuming the earth will be destroyed with fire,
and all the nations of the earth will be destroyed
along with it".
Have you given any thought to what I wrote or just brushed it off again?
Adam
.
User: "Ian Zech"

Title: Re: Difficult Questions for Futurists to Answer 24 Feb 2006 08:04:09 PM
"Adam" <adam@dodo.com> wrote in message
news:43ffb195$0$93448$c30e37c6@ken-reader.news.telstra.net...


"Pastor Dave" <_-_Ananias917_-_@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:vdstv1he4h5982s9datp5v10alsu2lmftt@4ax.com...

On Fri, 24 Feb 2006 09:14:55 +1000, "Adam"
<adam@dodo.com> spake thusly:


You are starting out with the wrong assumptions.
I've told you before that "heaven" and "earth" in prophecy usually refer
to
the "ruling classes" and the "common people" respectively.
You have rejected this and so you continue down a path of error and drag
others down with you.

The current heaven and earth is the kingdom of men. This will be
destroyed
at the return of Christ.
The second heaven and earth is the millennium rule of the saints under
Christ. The saints only will be resurrected and Abraham will inherit the
land and David will rule over the common people in Israel.
And the third heaven and earth begins after the final resurrection when
there is no more death.

The future of mankind is on earth not in heaven. Until you understand
this
basic fact you will continue down the path of error.
Adam.


You have snipped every question and told me what
I'm supposed to believe. How does that show that
you have an answer for those questions, when all
you did was spit out your own personal doctrine
and snip the questions?

--

"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34

The Last Days were in the first century:

"But the end of all things is AT HAND: be YE
therefore sober, and watch unto prayer."
- 1 Peter 4:7

The reason I snipped your questions was because you started off with a
wrong assumption.
"Assuming the earth will be destroyed with fire,
and all the nations of the earth will be destroyed
along with it".
Have you given any thought to what I wrote or just brushed it off again?
Adam

Adam, Hebee Armstrong was a fake, a charlatan. You've been brainwashed. Your
futurist idiocies are from him and you should get rid of them. Move
furniture but Armstrong is in hell where he belongs. That idiot was a fake
and misled many.


.

User: "Pastor Dave"

Title: Re: Difficult Questions for Futurists to Answer 25 Feb 2006 06:08:36 AM
On Sat, 25 Feb 2006 11:24:13 +1000, "Adam"
<adam@dodo.com> spake thusly:

You have snipped every question and told me what
I'm supposed to believe. How does that show that
you have an answer for those questions, when all
you did was spit out your own personal doctrine
and snip the questions?


The reason I snipped your questions was because you started off with a wrong
assumption.
"Assuming the earth will be destroyed with fire,
and all the nations of the earth will be destroyed
along with it".
Have you given any thought to what I wrote or just brushed it off again?
Adam

I did not start off with said assumption. You simply
did not read the questions properly, because you did
not pay attention to the subject line. :)
The questions are asked to futurists and state as
"assumptions", the common futurist doctrine and
not my personal beliefs.
I.e., "Assuming what you believe is true, then how
is it that..."
....then the question is asked.
The questions are asked in a way that states what
the common futurist doctrine is regarding a given
point and then asks a question designed to make
the futurist who believes in that doctrine think
about it, to see if they can answer the question
honestly and still hang on to their doctrine. If
they can't, hopefully they will think about what
it is they believe, instead of firing off and attacking
me. Of course, so far, it has just been people
snipping the questions and attacking me, because
they know they can't answer them and they refuse
to give up their doctrine. (:
I'm not saying you personally did that. In know
that in your case, you simply didn't understand
where I was coming from. :)
--
"Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass,
till all these things be fulfilled." - Matthew 24:34
"Faith is not an intellectual belief. Faith is
a belief with legs on it." - Adrian Rogers
.





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