| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Melchizedek" |
| Date: |
31 Jan 2007 01:07:02 PM |
| Object: |
"Difficult Times Will Come" - Are We there Yet! |
"Difficult Times Will Come" - Are We there Yet!
The Coming Apostasy
(2 Timothy 3:1-5 NASB)
"Difficult Times Will Come"
1 But realize this, that ?a?in the last days difficult times will come.
2 For men will be ?a?lovers of self, ?b?lovers of money, ?c?boastful,
?c?arrogant, ?d?revilers, ?c?disobedient to parents, ?e?ungrateful, ?f?unholy,
3 ?a?unloving, irreconcilable, ?b?malicious gossips, without self-control,
brutal, ?1??c?haters of good,
4 ?a?treacherous, ?b?reckless, ?c?conceited, ?d?lovers of pleasure rather
than lovers of God,
5 holding to a form of ?1??a?godliness, although they have ?b?denied its
power; ?c?Avoid such men as these. [1]
LIVING IN THE LAST DAYS
If society is doomed to degeneration, what should believers do as they live in the
"last days"? Paul offered advice in several of his letters:
Reference - Romans 13:11-14
Application - Keep close to the Lord.
Reference - 2 Corinthians 11:13-15
Application - Avoid those masquerading as servants of God.
Reference - Ephesians 5:11
Application - Have nothing to do with evildoers and their wicked deeds; instead,
expose them. Believers need not allow evil to continue unchecked, but should
actively work against it.
Reference - Ephesians 5:18
Application - Redeem the time.
Reference - Colossians 4:2, 5
Application - Believers are to pray, be watchful, be thankful, and be wise in the
way they act toward unbelievers, making the most of every opportunity to share
the gospel.
Reference - 2 Thessalonians 3:6-15
Application - Church members who are lazy and idle must be warned. Christians
should not be sitting around waiting for the Lord to return, but should continue
working in the ministry.
[2]
In verses 2-5, nineteen characteristics of mankind during the last days are given.
We shall simply list them and give synonyms that explain their meaning:
Lovers of themselves-self-cen tered, conceited, egotistical.
Lovers of money-greedy for mon ey, avaricious.
Boasters-braggarts, full of great swelling words.
Proud-arrogant, haughty, overbearing.
Blasphemers-evil speakers, profane, abusive, foulmouthed, contemptuous,
insulting.
Disobedient to parents-rebellious, undutiful, uncontrolled.
Unthankful-ungrateful, lacking in appreciation.
Unholy-impious, profane, irreverent, holding nothing sacred.
3:3 Unloving-hard-hearted, unnaturally callous, unfeeling.
Unforgiving-"implacable, refusing to make peace, refusing efforts toward
reconciliation."
Slanderers-spreading false and malicious reports.
Without self-control-men of uncontrolled passions, dissolute, debauched.
Brutal-savage, unprincipled.
Despisers of good-haters of whatever or whoever is good; utterly opposed to
goodness in any form.
3:4 Traitors-treacherous, betrayers.
Headstrong-reckless, self-willed, rash.
Haughty-making empty pretensions, conceited.
Lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God-those who love sensual pleasures
but not God.
[3]
2 Timothy 3:1
Knowing his death was imminent, I believe Paul nonetheless thought the Rapture
would happen either in his lifetime or shortly thereafter. So do I. I believe the
Rapture will happen in my lifetime.
"Well," you say, "if Paul thought the Rapture would happen in his lifetime, and it
didn't-and if men of God throughout the ages have felt as though they were
living in the last days and the Rapture would happen in their lifetimes, and it
didn't-doesn't it seem foolish to think the Rapture will happen in your lifetime?"
Not at all. Throughout the history of the church, the greatest men and women of
the faith have all lived their lives believing that the Lord's coming was nigh. And
even though the Lord didn't come when they thought He would, looking for His
return impacted their lives in such a way that they left their mark on history and
will be rewarded greatly in eternity (2 Timothy 4:8). Luther, Calvin, Spurgeon,
Finney, Moody, Torrey all felt the Lord's coming was close at hand. Put me in
their company any day!
I choose to live my life looking for the Lord's coming. And if I am wrong, even if
He doesn't come back for another five hundred years, I would rather go through
the days I have left looking for the sudden appearing of Jesus Christ because I
know the effect it has upon the life of any man or woman who believes He could
come today: One's heart does not get troubled as easily. One is not prone to sin
so readily. If you want to live a zealous, exciting, fulfilling, pure Christian life, live it
looking for the Lord's coming (1 John 3:3).
[4]
2 Timothy 3:2 (a)
For men shall be lovers of their own selves.
Of the students in the ten leading industrialized nations, American high-school
students scored either ninth or tenth in every academic category. But in the
category of self-esteem, they came in first. In other words, our culture is very
good at teaching our kids to say, "I'm okay. I'm somebody. I'm proud."
2 Timothy 3:2 (b)
..covetous, boasters.
The Greek word translated "boasters" is alazon, which speaks of a claim made
by a quack promising something but unable to deliver that which was promised.
2 Timothy 3:2 (c)
..proud, blasphemers.
The idea of blasphemy literally refers to those who use the Lord's name in vain.
People say "God" constantly-but seldom with reverence. Even by people
interviewed on news programs, the Lord's name is used in vain constantly.
2 Timothy 3:2 (d), 3 (a)
..disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection.
I believe nothing identifies us more clearly as those who have fallen into unnatural
affection than the sad statistics relating to abortion. We're horrified when we read
that the Canaanites placed their babies on the incandescent arms of idols. How
can this be? we wonder. And yet we burn our babies with saline solutions in the
wombs of mothers-a practice even more horrific, a practice that goes against
every natural instinct to protect one's offspring.
2 Timothy 3:3 (b)
..trucebreakers.
The idea here is of people ignoring covenants or contracts.
2 Timothy 3:3 (c)
..false accusers, incontinent, fierce.
After being confronted by a student upset with an assignment, the teacher of an
anger management class lost his temper and hit the student in the face. Now, if
even teachers of anger management are hitting people, without the Lord, what
hope is there for the rest of our angry world?
2 Timothy 3:3 (d), 4
..despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of
pleasures more than lovers of God.
People love pleasure. But it's a love that leads only to the "Been there, done that,
now what?" mentality, as they find they have to continually do something bigger,
better, farther, faster, and higher in order to get the same thrill they once did.
2 Timothy 3:5
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn away.
We're to turn away from those who are without natural affection, from those who
despise things that are good, from those who love pleasure more than God, from
those who talk about NewAge spirituality but who know nothing of the power of
the Holy Spirit and the Resurrected Jesus.
[5]
IS IT BAD ENOUGH YET?
Our concerns about the "last days" tend to be very personal. They usually arise,
not because we are actually suffering, but because we dread suffering. Concerns
focus not so much on the destructiveness of evil around us, but whether or not
evil will affect our way of living. Such narrow concerns reveal our blindness to
evil. Christians must not withdraw from the world entirely or use the wrong
methods to defend themselves against it. Believers who attempt to insulate
themselves from the moral degradation of the last days must not insulate
themselves from God. Whenever material prosperity or pleasure are used in place
of God's protection, we fool ourselves. But God loves us too much to leave us in
our delusion. If it takes the loss of everything to get our attention, God has been
known to allow that to happen. Does your life exhibit an awareness of the
desperate condition of the world? Are you using God's methods for dealing with
terrible times?
[6]
CHECK THE LIST
In many parts of the world today, it's not too tough to be a follower of
Christ-Christians aren't jailed for reading the Bible or executed for preaching
Christ. But Paul's descriptive list of behavior in the last days describes our
society-even, unfortunately, the behavior of some Christians. Every one of these
can be found in churches today. Check your life against Paul's list. Don't give in
to society's pressures. Don't settle for comfort without commitment. Stand up
against evil by living as God would have his people live.
[7]
CHOOSING TO LOVE
Why is it so tempting to be a lover of pleasure rather than a lover of God?
.. Pleasure is something we can control; God cannot be controlled. Most
pleasures can be obtained easily; love for God requires effort and sometimes
sacrifice.
.. Pleasure benefits us now; the benefits of loving God are often in the future.
.. Pleasure has a narcotic effect; it takes our minds off ourselves and our
problems. Love for God reminds us of our needs and our responsibilities.
.. Pleasure cooperates with pride. It makes us feel good when we look good in
the eyes of others. To love God we must lay aside our pride and our
accomplishments.
[8]
PLAYING SOLDIER
Imitation Christianity has dangerous consequences. Putting on an appearance of
faith often leads people to believe a person is a true believer. In an actual incident
during the Korean War, a lieutenant inspecting a new platoon over which he was
about to take command reported that several soldiers carried rifles that had
rusted shut. Yet they were scheduled to go into battle the next day! They looked
like soldiers; they carried weapons. But they were unprepared and unable to
fight.
Some churchgoers rely on superficial appearances. Many people today carry
Bibles, attend church, mouth the right words, yet evidence no spiritual power in
their lives. They have no direct, personal, intimate connection with God.
[9]
"Self-love is the basic shortcoming mentioned in the list of vices in 3:2-5. This
vice leads to action in vv. 6-9 that is deceitful, determined to dominate, stubborn,
and rejected by God." 64
[10]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
a 1 Tim 4:1
a Phil 2:21
b Luke 16:14; 1 Tim 3:3; 6:10
c Rom 1:30
d 2 Pet 2:10-12
e Luke 6:35
f 1 Tim 1:9
a Rom 1:31
b 1 Tim 3:11
1 Lit not loving good
c Titus 1:8
a Acts 7:52
b Acts 19:36
c 1 Tim 3:6
d Phil 3:19
1 Or religion
a 1 Tim 4:7
b 1 Tim 5:8
c Matt 7:15; 2 Thess 3:6
[1]New American Standard Bible : 1995 update. 1995 (2 Ti 3:1). LaHabra, CA:
The Lockman Foundation.
[2]Barton, B. B., Veerman, D., & Wilson, N. S. (1993). 1 Timothy, 2 Timothy,
Titus. Cover title: 1 & 2 Timothy & Titus. Life application Bible commentary
(204). Wheaton, Ill.: Tyndale House Publishers.
[3]MacDonald, W., & Farstad, A. (1997, c1995). Believer's Bible Commentary
: Old and New Testaments (2 Ti 3:2). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.
[4]Courson, J. (2003). Jon Courson's Application Commentary (1408).
Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson.
[5]Courson, J. (2003). Jon Courson's Application Commentary (1408).
Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson.
[6]Barton, B. B., Veerman, D., & Wilson, N. S. (1993). 1 Timothy, 2 Timothy,
Titus. Cover title: 1 & 2 Timothy & Titus. Life application Bible commentary
(204). Wheaton, Ill.: Tyndale House Publishers.
[7]Barton, B. B., Veerman, D., & Wilson, N. S. (1993). 1 Timothy, 2 Timothy,
Titus. Cover title: 1 & 2 Timothy & Titus. Life application Bible commentary
(206). Wheaton, Ill.: Tyndale House Publishers.
[8]Barton, B. B., Veerman, D., & Wilson, N. S. (1993). 1 Timothy, 2 Timothy,
Titus. Cover title: 1 & 2 Timothy & Titus. Life application Bible commentary
(207). Wheaton, Ill.: Tyndale House Publishers.
[9]Barton, B. B., Veerman, D., & Wilson, N. S. (1993). 1 Timothy, 2 Timothy,
Titus. Cover title: 1 & 2 Timothy & Titus. Life application Bible commentary
(208). Wheaton, Ill.: Tyndale House Publishers.
64 64. Lea, p. 230.
[10]Tom Constable. (2003; 2003). Tom Constable's Expository Notes on the
Bible (2 Ti 3:5). Galaxie Software.
.. So much predictive Truth in just five [5] lines of Scripture!
.. This is the Theme for Bileweb.Info
--
Fox News: "Don't be a Jackanapes." - O'Reilly Factor
"The best way to drive out the devil, if he will not yield
to texts of Scripture, is to jeer and flout him, for he
cannot bear scorn." ~ Squash a Liver! ~
Born once, die twice. Born twice, die once.
My Christian Bible Study Collection - http://Bibleweb.Info/
Respond by Email.
.
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| User: "Zadok" |
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| Title: Re: "Difficult Times Will Come" - Are We there Yet! |
31 Jan 2007 01:36:02 PM |
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"Chize" <> wrote in message
....
"Difficult Times Will Come" - Are We there Yet!
The Coming Apostasy
Already came!! Saulus (Paul) is the apostate.
But you follow him anyway.
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| User: "Bible Believer" |
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| Title: Re: "Difficult Times Will Come" - Are We there Yet! |
31 Jan 2007 11:15:54 PM |
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On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 14:07:02 -0500, "Melchizedek"
<Melchizedek@trust-but-verify.com> claimed:
"Difficult Times Will Come" - Are We there Yet!
The Coming Apostasy
(2 Timothy 3:1-5 NASB)
There is no "coming apostasy".
2 Timothy 3:1-5
1) But know this, that in the last days perilous times
will come:
2) For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money,
boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents,
unthankful, unholy,
3) unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control,
brutal, despisers of good,
4) traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather
than lovers of God,
5) having a form of godliness but denying its power.
And from such people turn away!
These passages being quoted as if they apply today,
which is what the last few generations have been
claiming and have all been wrong, which shows that
your claim is no better than theirs, only proves
your vanity. (:
Furthermore, you are saying that since Christianity
has been around, that these things have never
happened before, since you claim that they are
a sign that we are in the last days and therefore,
it is only the first time that they happen, that it
can be a sign of this. What vanity, to think that
nothing happened, until you were alive! (:
I say that you and all Futurists should stop reading
the Bible as if the clock stopped after the words were
penned and didn't start again, until you opened a
Bible for the first time. That again, is vanity. (:
But what does Scripture say? Does the Scripture
tell us when the last days were/are? Why yes,
they do!
First read the first verse from what you referenced...
"But know this, that in the last days perilous times
will come..." - 2 Timothy 3:1a
Now read what the writer of Hebrews said...
Hebrews 1:1-2
1) God, who at various times and in various ways
spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets,
2) has *_IN THESE LAST DAYS_* spoken to us
by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all
things, through whom also He made the worlds.
Once again, read it as if you are reading it right after
it was written, which is how the first recipients of
the letter would have read it.
Why do people pretend that the writers of these
NT letters, wrote them and sent them and that
those people read statements like what I quoted
above and then thought to themselves...
"Well, we know this is not about us and so, it can't
be the last days yet. because we know he's actually
ignoring us and just wants us to make sure that
we save this letter, for those people in the 21st
century."
HUH?!? If that were the case, why would he send
the letter at all? Why not just hang onto it and
preserve it himself? :)
The first rule of reading ANY text, is "audience
relevance". That is what must be considered.
Those who read the Bible as if it were written
just for their generation and just the day before
they opened a Bible for the first time, do a great
disservice to the texts! (: They take the time
statements, like the word "now" and actually
try to claim that it means, "Now, in our day"
and then, hypocritically claim that they don't
read the Bible as if it were just written yesterday.
Please! (:
It is clear that the writer of Hebrews said that they
were in the last days in the first century.
But wait, let me guess... Because now I have shown
you to be wrong, you will make the lame claim that;
"Well, the last days started then, but are still going
on now.".
Well then, what was the point of your claim, which
we both know you were implying meant that we are
NOW in the last days?
You know as well as I do that that is what you are
claiming and you know as well as I do, that if all
days are the last days, then the phrase "last days"
has no meaning, since all days would be the last days!
So do yourself a favor and don't bother with that
lame claim, alright? :)
And let us note what John said...
"Little children, IT IS the LAST HOUR..." - 1 John 2:18a
This was written later, so tell us, how did it go from
the "last days", to the "last hour" within the same
generation and yet, that last hour has taken almost
2,000 years and still counting??? Huh?!?
--
The Bible is the inerrant word of the living God!
If you don't believe the Bible, don't tell me that
you are a Christian. I won't believe you. To make
that claim, is to be a heretic who does not know God.
.
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| User: "Pi" |
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| Title: Re: "Difficult Times Will Come" - Are We there Yet! |
01 Feb 2007 10:35:00 AM |
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"Bible Believer" <noway@nowhere.com> wrote in message news:itf2s2d4un3pf7kabh71rnr88gfq9svevg@4ax.com...
On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 14:07:02 -0500, "Melchizedek"
<Melchizedek@trust-but-verify.com> claimed:
"Difficult Times Will Come" - Are We there Yet!
The Coming Apostasy
(2 Timothy 3:1-5 NASB)
There is no "coming apostasy".
2 Timothy 3:1-5
1) But know this, that in the last days perilous times
will come:
2) For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money,
boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents,
unthankful, unholy,
3) unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control,
brutal, despisers of good,
4) traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather
than lovers of God,
5) having a form of godliness but denying its power.
And from such people turn away!
These passages being quoted as if they apply today,
which is what the last few generations have been
claiming and have all been wrong, which shows that
your claim is no better than theirs, only proves
your vanity. (:
Furthermore, you are saying that since Christianity
has been around, that these things have never
happened before, since you claim that they are
a sign that we are in the last days and therefore,
it is only the first time that they happen, that it
can be a sign of this. What vanity, to think that
nothing happened, until you were alive! (:
I say that you and all Futurists should stop reading
the Bible as if the clock stopped after the words were
penned and didn't start again, until you opened a
Bible for the first time. That again, is vanity. (:
But what does Scripture say? Does the Scripture
tell us when the last days were/are? Why yes,
they do!
First read the first verse from what you referenced...
"But know this, that in the last days perilous times
will come..." - 2 Timothy 3:1a
Now read what the writer of Hebrews said...
Hebrews 1:1-2
1) God, who at various times and in various ways
spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets,
2) has *_IN THESE LAST DAYS_* spoken to us
by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all
things, through whom also He made the worlds.
Once again, read it as if you are reading it right after
it was written, which is how the first recipients of
the letter would have read it.
The first rule of reading ANY text, is "audience
relevance". >
<snip preterism>
Please! (: <=== Old Wet Dog (owg) in drag!
Bible Believer is owg ha ha haaaa :-) Heeey Randy ...
.
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| User: "Bible Believer" |
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| Title: Re: "Difficult Times Will Come" - Are We there Yet! |
01 Feb 2007 02:19:11 PM |
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On Thu, 1 Feb 2007 11:35:00 -0500, "Pi" <Pi@john-14-6.info>
claimed:
"Bible Believer" <noway@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:itf2s2d4un3pf7kabh71rnr88gfq9svevg@4ax.com...
On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 14:07:02 -0500, "Melchizedek"
<Melchizedek@trust-but-verify.com> claimed:
"Difficult Times Will Come" - Are We there Yet!
The Coming Apostasy
(2 Timothy 3:1-5 NASB)
There is no "coming apostasy".
2 Timothy 3:1-5
1) But know this, that in the last days perilous times
will come:
2) For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money,
boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents,
unthankful, unholy,
3) unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control,
brutal, despisers of good,
4) traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather
than lovers of God,
5) having a form of godliness but denying its power.
And from such people turn away!
These passages being quoted as if they apply today,
which is what the last few generations have been
claiming and have all been wrong, which shows that
your claim is no better than theirs, only proves
your vanity. (:
Furthermore, you are saying that since Christianity
has been around, that these things have never
happened before, since you claim that they are
a sign that we are in the last days and therefore,
it is only the first time that they happen, that it
can be a sign of this. What vanity, to think that
nothing happened, until you were alive! (:
I say that you and all Futurists should stop reading
the Bible as if the clock stopped after the words were
penned and didn't start again, until you opened a
Bible for the first time. That again, is vanity. (:
But what does Scripture say? Does the Scripture
tell us when the last days were/are? Why yes,
they do!
First read the first verse from what you referenced...
"But know this, that in the last days perilous times
will come..." - 2 Timothy 3:1a
Now read what the writer of Hebrews said...
Hebrews 1:1-2
1) God, who at various times and in various ways
spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets,
2) has *_IN THESE LAST DAYS_* spoken to us
by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all
things, through whom also He made the worlds.
Once again, read it as if you are reading it right after
it was written, which is how the first recipients of
the letter would have read it.
The first rule of reading ANY text, is "audience relevance".
<snip preterism>
Please! (: <=== Old Wet Dog (owg) in drag!
Bible Believer is owg ha ha haaaa :-) Heeey Randy ...
This is your idea of an intelligent response?
Frankly, I love it when you people respond this way!
It proves that the post got to you! It proves that you
know that you have nothing with which to refute what
I posted and so, decide to insult me instead, which is
quite telling, my friend! :)
--
The Bible is the inerrant word of the living God!
If you don't believe the Bible, don't tell me that
you are a Christian. I won't believe you. To make
that claim, is to be a heretic who does not know God.
.
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| User: "gatekeeper" |
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| Title: Re: "Difficult Times Will Come" - Are We there Yet! |
01 Feb 2007 12:57:38 AM |
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On Jan 31, 10:15 pm, Bible Believer <n...@nowhere.com> wrote:
On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 14:07:02 -0500, "Melchizedek"
<Melchize...@trust-but-verify.com> claimed:
"Difficult Times Will Come" - Are We there Yet!
The Coming Apostasy
(2 Timothy 3:1-5 NASB)
There is no "coming apostasy".
2 Timothy 3:1-5
1) But know this, that in the last days perilous times
will come:
2) For men will be lovers of themselves, lovers of money,
boasters, proud, blasphemers, disobedient to parents,
unthankful, unholy,
3) unloving, unforgiving, slanderers, without self-control,
brutal, despisers of good,
4) traitors, headstrong, haughty, lovers of pleasure rather
than lovers of God,
5) having a form of godliness but denying its power.
And from such people turn away!
These passages being quoted as if they apply today,
which is what the last few generations have been
claiming and have all been wrong, which shows that
your claim is no better than theirs, only proves
your vanity. (:
Furthermore, you are saying that since Christianity
has been around, that these things have never
happened before, since you claim that they are
a sign that we are in the last days and therefore,
it is only the first time that they happen, that it
can be a sign of this. What vanity, to think that
nothing happened, until you were alive! (:
I say that you and all Futurists should stop reading
the Bible as if the clock stopped after the words were
penned and didn't start again, until you opened a
Bible for the first time. That again, is vanity. (:
But what does Scripture say? Does the Scripture
tell us when the last days were/are? Why yes,
they do!
First read the first verse from what you referenced...
"But know this, that in the last days perilous times
will come..." - 2 Timothy 3:1a
Now read what the writer of Hebrews said...
Hebrews 1:1-2
1) God, who at various times and in various ways
spoke in time past to the fathers by the prophets,
2) has *_IN THESE LAST DAYS_* spoken to us
by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all
things, through whom also He made the worlds.
Once again, read it as if you are reading it right after
it was written, which is how the first recipients of
the letter would have read it.
Why do people pretend that the writers of these
NT letters, wrote them and sent them and that
those people read statements like what I quoted
above and then thought to themselves...
"Well, we know this is not about us and so, it can't
be the last days yet. because we know he's actually
ignoring us and just wants us to make sure that
we save this letter, for those people in the 21st
century."
HUH?!? If that were the case, why would he send
the letter at all? Why not just hang onto it and
preserve it himself? :)
The first rule of reading ANY text, is "audience
relevance". That is what must be considered.
Those who read the Bible as if it were written
just for their generation and just the day before
they opened a Bible for the first time, do a great
disservice to the texts! (: They take the time
statements, like the word "now" and actually
try to claim that it means, "Now, in our day"
and then, hypocritically claim that they don't
read the Bible as if it were just written yesterday.
Please! (:
It is clear that the writer of Hebrews said that they
were in the last days in the first century.
But wait, let me guess... Because now I have shown
you to be wrong, you will make the lame claim that;
"Well, the last days started then, but are still going
on now.".
Well then, what was the point of your claim, which
we both know you were implying meant that we are
NOW in the last days?
You know as well as I do that that is what you are
claiming and you know as well as I do, that if all
days are the last days, then the phrase "last days"
has no meaning, since all days would be the last days!
So do yourself a favor and don't bother with that
lame claim, alright? :)
And let us note what John said...
"Little children, IT IS the LAST HOUR..." - 1 John 2:18a
This was written later, so tell us, how did it go from
the "last days", to the "last hour" within the same
generation and yet, that last hour has taken almost
2,000 years and still counting??? Huh?!?
--
The Bible is the inerrant word of the living God!
If you don't believe the Bible, don't tell me that
you are a Christian. I won't believe you. To make
that claim, is to be a heretic who does not know God.
You hit the nail on the head again, most everyone whether a believer
or not, approach eschatology, like an amusement park. It was built
just for our amusement, and might have been built just the day before
we got there. We love to ride the rollercoaster, and the ferris
wheel, and the Thunderbolt. It makes us feel so alive to know that we
are in the center of what is going on, with God pulling the levers to
give us the ride of our life.
Actually, I believe that the vision of our life should be much more
quiet and content, even pastoral. Visualize getting up and watching
the sunrise like you had never seen it before, and wonder what
surprises this new day holds for each one of us.
The Eastgate is open, the King is in Residence!
Whosoever will, may come in!
Gatekeeper
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| User: "Bible Believer" |
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| Title: Re: "Difficult Times Will Come" - Are We there Yet! |
01 Feb 2007 11:10:46 AM |
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On 31 Jan 2007 22:57:38 -0800, "gatekeeper"
<gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> claimed:
This was written later, so tell us, how did it go from
the "last days", to the "last hour" within the same
generation and yet, that last hour has taken almost
2,000 years and still counting??? Huh?!?
You hit the nail on the head again, most everyone whether a believer
or not, approach eschatology, like an amusement park. It was built
just for our amusement, and might have been built just the day before
we got there. We love to ride the rollercoaster, and the ferris
wheel, and the Thunderbolt. It makes us feel so alive to know that we
are in the center of what is going on, with God pulling the levers to
give us the ride of our life.
I love the way you put that! :)
Actually, I believe that the vision of our life should be much more
quiet and content, even pastoral. Visualize getting up and watching
the sunrise like you had never seen it before, and wonder what
surprises this new day holds for each one of us.
Amen! While looking for the world to disappear,
what are these Futurists doing to make it better?
--
The Bible is the inerrant word of the living God!
If you don't believe the Bible, don't tell me that
you are a Christian. I won't believe you. To make
that claim, is to be a heretic who does not know God.
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| User: "blu" |
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| Title: Re: "Difficult Times Will Come" - Are We there Yet! |
31 Jan 2007 08:59:17 AM |
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On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 14:07:02 -0500, Melchizedek wrote
<mN5wh.27134$uW.2142@bignews3.bellsouth.net>:
"Difficult Times Will Come" - Are We there Yet!
Nope. Not difficult at all. Just highlight and delete.
Very simple.
--
blu*goddess.of.groundhogs*juju
blu 3=3
master of irrelevance
Cancel my subscription to the resurrection.
-Jim Morrison http://blu05.port5.com/
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| User: "Whew_NotYuppie" |
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| Title: Re: "Difficult Times Will Come" - Are We there Yet! |
31 Jan 2007 04:49:32 PM |
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"blu" <not@this.tm> wrote in message
news:pan.2007.01.31.14.59.16.289538@utb...
On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 14:07:02 -0500, Melchizedek wrote
<mN5wh.27134$uW.2142@bignews3.bellsouth.net>:
"Difficult Times Will Come" - Are We there Yet!
Nope. Not difficult at all. Just highlight and delete.
Very simple.
Well, as women (if pre-menopausal) the difficult times just keep coming and
going.
Men don't have a clue what difficult times are.
--
blu*goddess.of.groundhogs*juju
blu 3=3
master of irrelevance
Cancel my subscription to the resurrection.
-Jim Morrison http://blu05.port5.com/
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| User: "blu" |
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| Title: Re: "Difficult Times Will Come" - Are We there Yet! |
31 Jan 2007 09:53:52 AM |
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On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 14:49:32 -0800, Whew_NotYuppie wrote
<45c11cfd$0$1342$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>:
"blu" <not@this.tm> wrote in message
news:pan.2007.01.31.14.59.16.289538@utb...
On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 14:07:02 -0500, Melchizedek wrote
<mN5wh.27134$uW.2142@bignews3.bellsouth.net>:
"Difficult Times Will Come" - Are We there Yet!
Nope. Not difficult at all. Just highlight and delete.
Very simple.
Well, as women (if pre-menopausal) the difficult times just keep coming and
going.
Men don't have a clue what difficult times are.
I thought he was referring to that tedious post of his..
--
blu*goddess.of.groundhogs*juju
blu 3=3
master of irrelevance
Cancel my subscription to the resurrection.
-Jim Morrison http://blu05.port5.com/
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| User: "Whew_NotYuppie" |
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| Title: Re: "Difficult Times Will Come" - Are We there Yet! |
31 Jan 2007 05:16:47 PM |
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"blu" <not@this.tm> wrote in message
news:pan.2007.01.31.15.53.51.915949@utb...
On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 14:49:32 -0800, Whew_NotYuppie wrote
<45c11cfd$0$1342$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>:
"blu" <not@this.tm> wrote in message
news:pan.2007.01.31.14.59.16.289538@utb...
On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 14:07:02 -0500, Melchizedek wrote
<mN5wh.27134$uW.2142@bignews3.bellsouth.net>:
"Difficult Times Will Come" - Are We there Yet!
Nope. Not difficult at all. Just highlight and delete.
Very simple.
Well, as women (if pre-menopausal) the difficult times just keep coming
and
going.
Men don't have a clue what difficult times are.
I thought he was referring to that tedious post of his..
He was, but he doesn't know the real meaning of difficult times.
Women have the market cornered on that one.
--
blu*goddess.of.groundhogs*juju
blu 3=3
master of irrelevance
Cancel my subscription to the resurrection.
-Jim Morrison http://blu05.port5.com/
.
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| User: "blu" |
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| Title: Re: "Difficult Times Will Come" - Are We there Yet! |
31 Jan 2007 10:54:32 AM |
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On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 15:16:47 -0800, Whew_NotYuppie wrote
<45c12365$0$8923$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>:
"blu" <not@this.tm> wrote in message
news:pan.2007.01.31.15.53.51.915949@utb...
On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 14:49:32 -0800, Whew_NotYuppie wrote
<45c11cfd$0$1342$4c368faf@roadrunner.com>:
"blu" <not@this.tm> wrote in message
news:pan.2007.01.31.14.59.16.289538@utb...
On Wed, 31 Jan 2007 14:07:02 -0500, Melchizedek wrote
<mN5wh.27134$uW.2142@bignews3.bellsouth.net>:
"Difficult Times Will Come" - Are We there Yet!
Nope. Not difficult at all. Just highlight and delete.
Very simple.
Well, as women (if pre-menopausal) the difficult times just keep coming
and
going.
Men don't have a clue what difficult times are.
I thought he was referring to that tedious post of his..
He was, but he doesn't know the real meaning of difficult times.
Women have the market cornered on that one.
You got *that* right..
Sheesh.. if they only knew.
--
blu*goddess.of.groundhogs*juju
blu 3=3
master of irrelevance
Cancel my subscription to the resurrection.
-Jim Morrison http://blu05.port5.com/
.
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| User: "Libertarius" |
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| Title: Re: "Difficult Times Will Come" - YOU'RE THERE! |
31 Jan 2007 02:45:53 PM |
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Typical Bible nonsense.
For som 5 billion years, since this planet existed,
there have ALWAYS been "difficult times". ;-) -- L.
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| User: "Bill M" |
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| Title: Re: "Difficult Times Will Come" - Are We there Yet! |
31 Jan 2007 02:36:23 PM |
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You need to see a competent psychiatrist!
"Melchizedek" <Melchizedek@trust-but-verify.com> wrote in message
news:mN5wh.27134$uW.2142@bignews3.bellsouth.net...
"Difficult Times Will Come" - Are We there Yet!
The Coming Apostasy
(2 Timothy 3:1-5 NASB)
"Difficult Times Will Come"
1 But realize this, that ?a?in the last days difficult times will
come.
2 For men will be ?a?lovers of self, ?b?lovers of money,
?c?boastful,
?c?arrogant, ?d?revilers, ?c?disobedient to parents, ?e?ungrateful,
?f?unholy,
3 ?a?unloving, irreconcilable, ?b?malicious gossips, without
self-control,
brutal, ?1??c?haters of good,
4 ?a?treacherous, ?b?reckless, ?c?conceited, ?d?lovers of pleasure
rather
than lovers of God,
5 holding to a form of ?1??a?godliness, although they have
?b?denied its
power; ?c?Avoid such men as these. [1]
LIVING IN THE LAST DAYS
If society is doomed to degeneration, what should believers do as they
live in the
"last days"? Paul offered advice in several of his letters:
Reference - Romans 13:11-14
Application - Keep close to the Lord.
Reference - 2 Corinthians 11:13-15
Application - Avoid those masquerading as servants of God.
Reference - Ephesians 5:11
Application - Have nothing to do with evildoers and their wicked deeds;
instead,
expose them. Believers need not allow evil to continue unchecked, but
should
actively work against it.
Reference - Ephesians 5:18
Application - Redeem the time.
Reference - Colossians 4:2, 5
Application - Believers are to pray, be watchful, be thankful, and be
wise in the
way they act toward unbelievers, making the most of every opportunity to
share
the gospel.
Reference - 2 Thessalonians 3:6-15
Application - Church members who are lazy and idle must be warned.
Christians
should not be sitting around waiting for the Lord to return, but should
continue
working in the ministry.
[2]
In verses 2-5, nineteen characteristics of mankind during the last days
are given.
We shall simply list them and give synonyms that explain their meaning:
Lovers of themselves-self-cen tered, conceited, egotistical.
Lovers of money-greedy for mon ey, avaricious.
Boasters-braggarts, full of great swelling words.
Proud-arrogant, haughty, overbearing.
Blasphemers-evil speakers, profane, abusive, foulmouthed, contemptuous,
insulting.
Disobedient to parents-rebellious, undutiful, uncontrolled.
Unthankful-ungrateful, lacking in appreciation.
Unholy-impious, profane, irreverent, holding nothing sacred.
3:3 Unloving-hard-hearted, unnaturally callous, unfeeling.
Unforgiving-"implacable, refusing to make peace, refusing efforts toward
reconciliation."
Slanderers-spreading false and malicious reports.
Without self-control-men of uncontrolled passions, dissolute, debauched.
Brutal-savage, unprincipled.
Despisers of good-haters of whatever or whoever is good; utterly opposed
to
goodness in any form.
3:4 Traitors-treacherous, betrayers.
Headstrong-reckless, self-willed, rash.
Haughty-making empty pretensions, conceited.
Lovers of pleasure rather than lovers of God-those who love sensual
pleasures
but not God.
[3]
2 Timothy 3:1
Knowing his death was imminent, I believe Paul nonetheless thought the
Rapture
would happen either in his lifetime or shortly thereafter. So do I. I
believe the
Rapture will happen in my lifetime.
"Well," you say, "if Paul thought the Rapture would happen in his
lifetime, and it
didn't-and if men of God throughout the ages have felt as though they were
living in the last days and the Rapture would happen in their lifetimes,
and it
didn't-doesn't it seem foolish to think the Rapture will happen in your
lifetime?"
Not at all. Throughout the history of the church, the greatest men and
women of
the faith have all lived their lives believing that the Lord's coming was
nigh. And
even though the Lord didn't come when they thought He would, looking for
His
return impacted their lives in such a way that they left their mark on
history and
will be rewarded greatly in eternity (2 Timothy 4:8). Luther, Calvin,
Spurgeon,
Finney, Moody, Torrey all felt the Lord's coming was close at hand. Put me
in
their company any day!
I choose to live my life looking for the Lord's coming. And if I am wrong,
even if
He doesn't come back for another five hundred years, I would rather go
through
the days I have left looking for the sudden appearing of Jesus Christ
because I
know the effect it has upon the life of any man or woman who believes He
could
come today: One's heart does not get troubled as easily. One is not prone
to sin
so readily. If you want to live a zealous, exciting, fulfilling, pure
Christian life, live it
looking for the Lord's coming (1 John 3:3).
[4]
2 Timothy 3:2 (a)
For men shall be lovers of their own selves.
Of the students in the ten leading industrialized nations, American
high-school
students scored either ninth or tenth in every academic category. But in
the
category of self-esteem, they came in first. In other words, our culture
is very
good at teaching our kids to say, "I'm okay. I'm somebody. I'm proud."
2 Timothy 3:2 (b)
.covetous, boasters.
The Greek word translated "boasters" is alazon, which speaks of a claim
made
by a quack promising something but unable to deliver that which was
promised.
2 Timothy 3:2 (c)
.proud, blasphemers.
The idea of blasphemy literally refers to those who use the Lord's name in
vain.
People say "God" constantly-but seldom with reverence. Even by people
interviewed on news programs, the Lord's name is used in vain constantly.
2 Timothy 3:2 (d), 3 (a)
.disobedient to parents, unthankful, unholy, without natural affection.
I believe nothing identifies us more clearly as those who have fallen into
unnatural
affection than the sad statistics relating to abortion. We're horrified
when we read
that the Canaanites placed their babies on the incandescent arms of idols.
How
can this be? we wonder. And yet we burn our babies with saline solutions
in the
wombs of mothers-a practice even more horrific, a practice that goes
against
every natural instinct to protect one's offspring.
2 Timothy 3:3 (b)
.trucebreakers.
The idea here is of people ignoring covenants or contracts.
2 Timothy 3:3 (c)
.false accusers, incontinent, fierce.
After being confronted by a student upset with an assignment, the teacher
of an
anger management class lost his temper and hit the student in the face.
Now, if
even teachers of anger management are hitting people, without the Lord,
what
hope is there for the rest of our angry world?
2 Timothy 3:3 (d), 4
.despisers of those that are good, traitors, heady, highminded, lovers of
pleasures more than lovers of God.
People love pleasure. But it's a love that leads only to the "Been there,
done that,
now what?" mentality, as they find they have to continually do something
bigger,
better, farther, faster, and higher in order to get the same thrill they
once did.
2 Timothy 3:5
Having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof: from such turn
away.
We're to turn away from those who are without natural affection, from
those who
despise things that are good, from those who love pleasure more than God,
from
those who talk about NewAge spirituality but who know nothing of the power
of
the Holy Spirit and the Resurrected Jesus.
[5]
IS IT BAD ENOUGH YET?
Our concerns about the "last days" tend to be very personal. They usually
arise,
not because we are actually suffering, but because we dread suffering.
Concerns
focus not so much on the destructiveness of evil around us, but whether or
not
evil will affect our way of living. Such narrow concerns reveal our
blindness to
evil. Christians must not withdraw from the world entirely or use the
wrong
methods to defend themselves against it. Believers who attempt to insulate
themselves from the moral degradation of the last days must not insulate
themselves from God. Whenever material prosperity or pleasure are used in
place
of God's protection, we fool ourselves. But God loves us too much to leave
us in
our delusion. If it takes the loss of everything to get our attention, God
has been
known to allow that to happen. Does your life exhibit an awareness of the
desperate condition of the world? Are you using God's methods for dealing
with
terrible times?
[6]
CHECK THE LIST
In many parts of the world today, it's not too tough to be a follower of
Christ-Christians aren't jailed for reading the Bible or executed for
preaching
Christ. But Paul's descriptive list of behavior in the last days describes
our
society-even, unfortunately, the behavior of some Christians. Every one of
these
can be found in churches today. Check your life against Paul's list. Don't
give in
to society's pressures. Don't settle for comfort without commitment. Stand
up
against evil by living as God would have his people live.
[7]
CHOOSING TO LOVE
Why is it so tempting to be a lover of pleasure rather than a lover of
God?
. Pleasure is something we can control; God cannot be controlled. Most
pleasures can be obtained easily; love for God requires effort and
sometimes
sacrifice.
. Pleasure benefits us now; the benefits of loving God are often in
the future.
. Pleasure has a narcotic effect; it takes our minds off ourselves and
our
problems. Love for God reminds us of our needs and our responsibilities.
. Pleasure cooperates with pride. It makes us feel good when we look
good in
the eyes of others. To love God we must lay aside our pride and our
accomplishments.
[8]
PLAYING SOLDIER
Imitation Christianity has dangerous consequences. Putting on an
appearance of
faith often leads people to believe a person is a true believer. In an
actual incident
during the Korean War, a lieutenant inspecting a new platoon over which he
was
about to take command reported that several soldiers carried rifles that
had
rusted shut. Yet they were scheduled to go into battle the next day! They
looked
like soldiers; they carried weapons. But they were unprepared and unable
to
fight.
Some churchgoers rely on superficial appearances. Many people today carry
Bibles, attend church, mouth the right words, yet evidence no spiritual
power in
their lives. They have no direct, personal, intimate connection with God.
[9]
"Self-love is the basic shortcoming mentioned in the list of vices in
3:2-5. This
vice leads to action in vv. 6-9 that is deceitful, determined to dominate,
stubborn,
and rejected by God." 64
[10]
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
a 1 Tim 4:1
a Phil 2:21
b Luke 16:14; 1 Tim 3:3; 6:10
c Rom 1:30
d 2 Pet 2:10-12
e Luke 6:35
f 1 Tim 1:9
a Rom 1:31
b 1 Tim 3:11
1 Lit not loving good
c Titus 1:8
a Acts 7:52
b Acts 19:36
c 1 Tim 3:6
d Phil 3:19
1 Or religion
a 1 Tim 4:7
b 1 Tim 5:8
c Matt 7:15; 2 Thess 3:6
[1]New American Standard Bible : 1995 update. 1995 (2 Ti 3:1). LaHabra,
CA:
The Lockman Foundation.
[2]Barton, B. B., Veerman, D., & Wilson, N. S. (1993). 1 Timothy, 2
Timothy,
Titus. Cover title: 1 & 2 Timothy & Titus. Life application Bible
commentary
(204). Wheaton, Ill.: Tyndale House Publishers.
[3]MacDonald, W., & Farstad, A. (1997, c1995). Believer's Bible Commentary
: Old and New Testaments (2 Ti 3:2). Nashville: Thomas Nelson.
[4]Courson, J. (2003). Jon Courson's Application Commentary (1408).
Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson.
[5]Courson, J. (2003). Jon Courson's Application Commentary (1408).
Nashville, TN: Thomas Nelson.
[6]Barton, B. B., Veerman, D., & Wilson, N. S. (1993). 1 Timothy, 2
Timothy,
Titus. Cover title: 1 & 2 Timothy & Titus. Life application Bible
commentary
(204). Wheaton, Ill.: Tyndale House Publishers.
[7]Barton, B. B., Veerman, D., & Wilson, N. S. (1993). 1 Timothy, 2
Timothy,
Titus. Cover title: 1 & 2 Timothy & Titus. Life application Bible
commentary
(206). Wheaton, Ill.: Tyndale House Publishers.
[8]Barton, B. B., Veerman, D., & Wilson, N. S. (1993). 1 Timothy, 2
Timothy,
Titus. Cover title: 1 & 2 Timothy & Titus. Life application Bible
commentary
(207). Wheaton, Ill.: Tyndale House Publishers.
[9]Barton, B. B., Veerman, D., & Wilson, N. S. (1993). 1 Timothy, 2
Timothy,
Titus. Cover title: 1 & 2 Timothy & Titus. Life application Bible
commentary
(208). Wheaton, Ill.: Tyndale House Publishers.
64 64. Lea, p. 230.
[10]Tom Constable. (2003; 2003). Tom Constable's Expository Notes on the
Bible (2 Ti 3:5). Galaxie Software.
. So much predictive Truth in just five [5] lines of
Scripture!
. This is the Theme for Bileweb.Info
--
Fox News: "Don't be a Jackanapes." - O'Reilly Factor
"The best way to drive out the devil, if he will not yield
to texts of Scripture, is to jeer and flout him, for he
cannot bear scorn." ~ Squash a Liver! ~
Born once, die twice. Born twice, die once.
My Christian Bible Study Collection - http://Bibleweb.Info/
Respond by Email.
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| User: "malscribe" |
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| Title: Re: "Difficult Times Will Come" - Are We there Yet! |
31 Jan 2007 03:30:47 PM |
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Bill M shamelessly exposed this to the world:
[reformatted because "Bill" is a ***** top poster]
"Melchizedek" <Melchizedek@trust-but-verify.com> wrote in message
[flush]
You need to see a competent psychiatrist!
You're no better than he is, you top posting fuckup.
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