| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Pastor Dave" |
| Date: |
27 Sep 2007 08:18:26 AM |
| Object: |
Dispensational Kook Factor |
The Dispensational Kook Factor, By Gary DeMar
Some dispensationalists are dangerous. When Jews were
being exterminated under Adolf Hitler’s anti-Jewish policy,
a number of prominent dispensational writers believed that
prophecy had set the course of inevitability for the Jews.
According to dispensationalism, two-thirds of the Jews will
be killed during a future “great tribulation” (Zech. 13:8).
This led some to advocate a “hands off” approach when
millions of Jews were being taken to concentration camps
and marched into gas ovens. Bible prophecy had made
it so (Bruce Lindsey).
A new dangerous kook book has been published:
Eye to Eye: Facing the Consequences of Dividing Israel.
The advertisement for this book states that the author
“provides undeniable facts and conclusive evidence
showing that indeed the leaders of the United States
and the world are on a collision course with God over
Israel’s covenant land”. The author’s argument is that
the recent spate of “major catastrophes transpired on the
very same day or within 24-hours of U.S. presidents Bush,
Clinton and Bush applying pressure on Israel to trade her
land for promises of ‘peace and security’, sponsoring major
‘land for peace’ meetings, making major public statements
pertaining to Israel's covenant land and/or calling for a
Palestinian state”.
If God is so concerned about Israel and her land, then why
didn’t He send an earthquake to swallow up the Palestinians
who were given the land by Ariel Sharon, a Jew? Why send
a hurricane to punish New Orleans when the real culprits
are those who are calling for Israel’s extermination?
Why punish the United States when we have been Israel’s
greatest defender? What nation protected Israel during
the first Gulf War and continues to send billions of dollars
in aid?
The advertisement for the book claims that the several
catastrophic disasters that have hit the United States are
a fulfillment of Zechariah 12:9: “And it shall come to
pass in that day, that I will seek to destroy all the
nations that come against Jerusalem.”. It seems to me
that the nations coming against Israel are not being
destroyed. Notice that Zechariah 12 uses the phrase
“all the nations”. For a dispensationalist, this must mean
every nation in the world today. So why punish just the
United States? As I point out in my book Zechariah 12
and the “Esther Connection”, Zechariah 12 is a description
of events that happen soon after the prophecy was given.
The events described in Esther are a perfect fit to what
Zechariah 12 predicts. “All the nations” were those
under the domain of the Persian empire throughout its
“127 provinces” from “India to Ethiopia” (Esther 1:1) that
Haman had called on “to destroy all the Jews, the people
of Mordecai, who were throughout the whole kingdom of
Ahasuerus” (3:6). “All nations” is used this way throughout
the Bible (e.g., Dan. 4:1; 1 Chron. 14:17; 2 Chron. 32:23;
Jer. 28:11; Ps. 118:10; Acts 2:5).
The author of Eye to Eye is selective in the disasters
he picks. How do the following fit his scenario?
1. Galveston (Texas) Hurricane, 1900, estimated 8,000 deaths
2. Great Okeechobee Hurricane in Florida, 1928,
estimated 2,500-plus
3. Johnstown, Pa., Flood, 1889, estimated 2,200-plus
4. Louisiana Hurricane, 1893, 2,000-plus
5. South Carolina-Georgia Hurricane, 1893, 1,000–2,000
6. Great New England Hurricane, 1938, 720
7. San Francisco Earthquake, 1906, 700
8. Georgia-South Carolina Hurricane, 1881, 700
9. Tri-State Tornado in Missouri, Illinois and Indiana,
1925, 695
10. Labor Day Hurricane that hit the Florida Keys, 1935, 405
Then there’s World War I and World War II, Pearl Harbor,
the Korean War, and the Vietnam War. What is their
prophetic significance? The nation of Israel has no
prophetic significance today.
--
If you wouldn't say it in person, why say it online?
To email me, just remove the underscores.
.
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: Dispensational and Replacment Theologiist Kook Factor |
27 Sep 2007 10:41:29 AM |
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"Pastor Dave" <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:u3bnf317ngucmfmsq4phn0b3as541u891a@4ax.com...
LOL
You should try reading some real books on the holocaust.
Try "Echos from Auschwitz" by Eva and Mariam Mozes, "The Nazi Holocaust" by
Ronnie S. Landau, and/or "Hitler and Nazi Germany" by Jackson J. Spielvogel.
Yes, Dispensationalism contributed to a lackadaisical attitude in the
Americas, but only in the Americas, since that's where Dispensationalist
churches are.
But that is not what led to the lackadaisical attitude, or even direct
participation of Christians in the persecution of Jews in Europe: Those
churches teach replacement theology.
And what is your theology?
Oh, yeah...replacement theology.
Ike
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| User: "Emma" |
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| Title: Re: Dispensational Kook Factor |
27 Sep 2007 12:17:29 PM |
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In article <u3bnf317ngucmfmsq4phn0b3as541u891a@4ax.com>, Pastor Dave says...
The Dispensational Kook Factor, By Gary DeMar
Some dispensationalists are dangerous. When Jews were
being exterminated under Adolf Hitler’s anti-Jewish policy,
a number of prominent dispensational writers believed that
prophecy had set the course of inevitability for the Jews.
According to dispensationalism, two-thirds of the Jews will
be killed during a future “great tribulation” (Zech. 13:8).
This led some to advocate a “hands off” approach when
millions of Jews were being taken to concentration camps
and marched into gas ovens. Bible prophecy had made
it so (Bruce Lindsey).
Actually, I don't think many Christians in Europe were
aware of this theology. It isn't mainstream
Christian theology and never has been.
So I think it was more likely that replacement theology
(which you hold to, Dave) was the reason why so
many Christians turned a blind eye. That was widely
taught.
--
***Emma***
http://www.anglicanfriendsofisrael.com/
http://www.bringmadeleinehome.com/
.
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: Dispensational Kook Factor |
27 Sep 2007 06:55:12 PM |
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"Emma" <emma@newsguy.com> wrote in message
news:fdgoj901484@drn.newsguy.com...
In article <u3bnf317ngucmfmsq4phn0b3as541u891a@4ax.com>, Pastor Dave
says...
The Dispensational Kook Factor, By Gary DeMar
Some dispensationalists are dangerous. When Jews were
being exterminated under Adolf Hitler’s anti-Jewish policy,
a number of prominent dispensational writers believed that
prophecy had set the course of inevitability for the Jews.
According to dispensationalism, two-thirds of the Jews will
be killed during a future “great tribulation” (Zech. 13:8).
This led some to advocate a “hands off” approach when
millions of Jews were being taken to concentration camps
and marched into gas ovens. Bible prophecy had made
it so (Bruce Lindsey).
Actually, I don't think many Christians in Europe were
aware of this theology. It isn't mainstream
Christian theology and never has been.
So I think it was more likely that replacement theology
(which you hold to, Dave) was the reason why so
many Christians turned a blind eye. That was widely
taught.
BINGO!
YES! The Catholic and Orthodox churches were teaching replacement theology,
hence they saw no need to come to the Jews' aid. Some members of the Eastern
Churches even saw fit to participate in the pogroms that forced the Jews
into Poland, which then resulted in the greatest number of Jewish executions
in all of Europe.
That's not to say that there weren't replacement theologians in the
Americas, for the white supremacists, the Ku Klux Klan, and the southern
sects of the Baptists also upheld it (and still do in organizations like the
John Birch Society).
Not that Dispensationalism helped any, as Dispensationalism teaches
different fates for Christians and Jews (rather than the co-joining of true
Israel and Christianity which the Bible teaches), making most Americans
apathetic to the plight of the Jews. This was in large part the reason that
the US government wouldn't allow many Jewish refugees to immigrate to the
United States, and it was the case in the rest of the Western world as well.
Either way, false doctrines in many churches were in large part responsible
for the severity of the holocaust, by those who wouldn't help the Jews get
out, and by those who were complacent, and even participated in, the
massacre.
Ike
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Dispensational Kook Factor |
28 Sep 2007 04:44:59 AM |
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On 27 Sep 2007 10:17:29 -0700, Emma <emma@newsguy.com>
wrote:
In article <u3bnf317ngucmfmsq4phn0b3as541u891a@4ax.com>, Pastor Dave says...
The Dispensational Kook Factor, By Gary DeMar
Some dispensationalists are dangerous. When Jews were
being exterminated under Adolf Hitler’s anti-Jewish policy,
a number of prominent dispensational writers believed that
prophecy had set the course of inevitability for the Jews.
According to dispensationalism, two-thirds of the Jews will
be killed during a future “great tribulation” (Zech. 13:8).
This led some to advocate a “hands off” approach when
millions of Jews were being taken to concentration camps
and marched into gas ovens. Bible prophecy had made
it so (Bruce Lindsey).
Actually, I don't think many Christians in Europe were
aware of this theology. It isn't mainstream
Christian theology and never has been.
Actually, this type of thing is very common today
and is entirely a Dispensational thing.
So I think it was more likely that replacement theology
(which you hold to, Dave) was the reason why so
many Christians turned a blind eye. That was widely
taught.
You can call what I believe whatever you want.
That won't make it wrong, nor do you get to
blame me for your Dispensational kooks cronies.
It is clear to me that you didn't like what you read,
because you know it's true and lashed out at me.
Your insults will not hide the truth and they won't
make it go away.
I am glad however, that you are feeling what
you're feeling over it. It shows that you're
beginning to understand how insane your
belief is.
--
If you wouldn't say it in person, why say it online?
To email me, just remove the underscores.
.
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: Dispensational Kook Factor |
28 Sep 2007 04:52:00 AM |
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"Pastor Dave" <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:84jpf35p5cp83m79rjtcd5jmtfh83rkmgp@4ax.com...
On 27 Sep 2007 10:17:29 -0700, Emma <emma@newsguy.com>
wrote:
In article <u3bnf317ngucmfmsq4phn0b3as541u891a@4ax.com>, Pastor Dave
says...
The Dispensational Kook Factor, By Gary DeMar
Some dispensationalists are dangerous. When Jews were
being exterminated under Adolf Hitler's anti-Jewish policy,
a number of prominent dispensational writers believed that
prophecy had set the course of inevitability for the Jews.
According to dispensationalism, two-thirds of the Jews will
be killed during a future "great tribulation" (Zech. 13:8).
This led some to advocate a "hands off" approach when
millions of Jews were being taken to concentration camps
and marched into gas ovens. Bible prophecy had made
it so (Bruce Lindsey).
Actually, I don't think many Christians in Europe were
aware of this theology. It isn't mainstream
Christian theology and never has been.
Actually, this type of thing is very common today
and is entirely a Dispensational thing.
No, no, no, no, no.
The major European churches taught REPLACEMENT THEOLOGY, not
Dispensationalism, which is the same demonic doctrine you teach.
Dispensationalism is pretty much just an American thing.
So I think it was more likely that replacement theology
(which you hold to, Dave) was the reason why so
many Christians turned a blind eye. That was widely
taught.
You can call what I believe whatever you want.
That won't make it wrong, nor do you get to
blame me for your Dispensational kooks cronies.
As opposed to the Preterist kooks cronies?
It is clear to me that you didn't like what you read,
because you know it's true and lashed out at me.
Ah, no, she immediately knew you were lying and properly took offense at
your attempt to shuffle the blame off on others when it was your doctrines
that caused the problems.
Your insults will not hide the truth and they won't
make it go away.
I am glad however, that you are feeling what
you're feeling over it. It shows that you're
beginning to understand how insane your
belief is.
LOL
Not less so than yours.
Ike
--
www.eickleberrybooks.com
******************************
The Tree of Life (from "The Character Map")
The Beloved
Faith Hope
Righteousness Judgment Compassion
Courage Integrity Diligence Grace
Discipline of Thought Service Desire Decision and Belief
Glory Honor Power Wisdom Riches Blessing Strength w/Thanksgiving
He Who Loves
******************************
Remove X from address to reply
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| User: "Emma" |
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| Title: Re: Dispensational Kook Factor |
28 Sep 2007 05:01:09 AM |
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In article <84jpf35p5cp83m79rjtcd5jmtfh83rkmgp@4ax.com>, Pastor Dave says...
The Dispensational Kook Factor, By Gary DeMar
Some dispensationalists are dangerous. When Jews were
being exterminated under Adolf Hitler’s anti-Jewish policy,
a number of prominent dispensational writers believed that
prophecy had set the course of inevitability for the Jews.
According to dispensationalism, two-thirds of the Jews will
be killed during a future “great tribulation” (Zech. 13:8).
This led some to advocate a “hands off” approach when
millions of Jews were being taken to concentration camps
and marched into gas ovens. Bible prophecy had made
it so (Bruce Lindsey).
Actually, I don't think many Christians in Europe were
aware of this theology. It isn't mainstream
Christian theology and never has been.
Actually, this type of thing is very common today
and is entirely a Dispensational thing.
It may be common today (in the US, btw, and not especially
elsewhere), but you were blaming it for the persecution
of Jews in Europe in the 1940's.
So I think it was more likely that replacement theology
(which you hold to, Dave) was the reason why so
many Christians turned a blind eye. That was widely
taught.
You can call what I believe whatever you want.
That won't make it wrong, nor do you get to
blame me for your Dispensational kooks cronies.
I was suggesting that *your theology* may have
been the reason why some Christians ignored
persecution of Jews in Europe.
It is clear to me that you didn't like what you read,
because you know it's true and lashed out at me.
Do you post here to debate, or to indulge in your
persecution complex?
Your insults will not hide the truth and they won't
make it go away.
What truth?
I am glad however, that you are feeling what
you're feeling over it. It shows that you're
beginning to understand how insane your
belief is.
What belief?
--
***Emma***
http://www.anglicanfriendsofisrael.com/
http://www.bringmadeleinehome.com/
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Dispensational Kook Factor |
29 Sep 2007 03:44:24 AM |
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On 28 Sep 2007 03:01:09 -0700, Emma <emma@newsguy.com>
wrote:
In article <84jpf35p5cp83m79rjtcd5jmtfh83rkmgp@4ax.com>, Pastor Dave says...
The Dispensational Kook Factor, By Gary DeMar
Some dispensationalists are dangerous. When Jews were
being exterminated under Adolf Hitler’s anti-Jewish policy,
a number of prominent dispensational writers believed that
prophecy had set the course of inevitability for the Jews.
According to dispensationalism, two-thirds of the Jews will
be killed during a future “great tribulation” (Zech. 13:8).
This led some to advocate a “hands off” approach when
millions of Jews were being taken to concentration camps
and marched into gas ovens. Bible prophecy had made
it so (Bruce Lindsey).
Actually, I don't think many Christians in Europe were
aware of this theology. It isn't mainstream
Christian theology and never has been.
Actually, this type of thing is very common today
and is entirely a Dispensational thing.
It may be common today (in the US, btw, and not especially
elsewhere), but you were blaming it for the persecution
of Jews in Europe in the 1940's.
If you dispute the facts, then write to the author,
who btw, quoted references. And it's a book by
a Dispensational author that he's talking about,
so sorry, but you lose and you don't get to blame
me for it.
So I think it was more likely that replacement theology
(which you hold to, Dave) was the reason why so
many Christians turned a blind eye. That was widely
taught.
You can call what I believe whatever you want.
That won't make it wrong, nor do you get to
blame me for your Dispensational kooks cronies.
I was suggesting that *your theology* may have
been the reason why some Christians ignored
persecution of Jews in Europe.
No, you were trying to point the finger my way,
because you couldn't face the facts of what
Dispensationalism teaches. And like it or not,
that is the type of thing that it teaches. And
you would be wrong for doing so, since that
is just you trying to avoid the truth and the
fact is, "my theology" believes in trying to
make the world a better place and not
cheering on the destruction of it, as do
the Dispensationalists!
It is clear to me that you didn't like what you read,
because you know it's true and lashed out at me.
Do you post here to debate, or to indulge in your
persecution complex?
Do you post to insult people? Or to insult them
and then claim they have a persecution complex?
Either way, it's simply you trying to take the focus
off of yourself and your doctrine.
Your insults will not hide the truth and they won't
make it go away.
What truth?
Playing dumb won't make it go away either.
I am glad however, that you are feeling what
you're feeling over it. It shows that you're
beginning to understand how insane your
belief is.
What belief?
See above. This only makes you look ridiculous.
--
If you wouldn't say it in person, why say it online?
To email me, just remove the underscores.
.
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: Dispensational Kook Factor |
29 Sep 2007 01:50:58 PM |
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"Pastor Dave" <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:4r3sf3t8c6gdh49nuljsg0oq63jfofrh69@4ax.com...
If you dispute the facts, then write to the author,
who btw, quoted references. And it's a book by
a Dispensational author that he's talking about,
so sorry, but you lose and you don't get to blame
me for it.
Well, it's your author who is the kook, because the bulk of the European
churches teach replacement theology, just like you, and THAT'S what led to
complacency about, and even participation in, the holocaust.
Dispensationalism is mostly an American church thing (sad to say), and it
led to complacency here, but the real criminals taught the same false
theology as you.
[snip]
No, you were trying to point the finger my way,
because you couldn't face the facts of what
Dispensationalism teaches.
No, she's pointing the finger your way because that's the direction the
abominable doctrines come from--your way.
Ike
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| User: "Emma" |
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| Title: Re: Dispensational Kook Factor |
29 Sep 2007 08:33:09 AM |
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In article <4r3sf3t8c6gdh49nuljsg0oq63jfofrh69@4ax.com>, Pastor Dave says...
The Dispensational Kook Factor, By Gary DeMar
Some dispensationalists are dangerous. When Jews were
being exterminated under Adolf Hitler’s anti-Jewish policy,
a number of prominent dispensational writers believed that
prophecy had set the course of inevitability for the Jews.
According to dispensationalism, two-thirds of the Jews will
be killed during a future “great tribulation” (Zech. 13:8).
This led some to advocate a “hands off” approach when
millions of Jews were being taken to concentration camps
and marched into gas ovens. Bible prophecy had made
it so (Bruce Lindsey).
Actually, I don't think many Christians in Europe were
aware of this theology. It isn't mainstream
Christian theology and never has been.
Actually, this type of thing is very common today
and is entirely a Dispensational thing.
It may be common today (in the US, btw, and not especially
elsewhere), but you were blaming it for the persecution
of Jews in Europe in the 1940's.
If you dispute the facts, then write to the author,
who btw, quoted references.
You quoted the author. If you agree with him,
then you'll have to defend his beliefs by providing
references from Europe in the 1940's.
So I think it was more likely that replacement theology
(which you hold to, Dave) was the reason why so
many Christians turned a blind eye. That was widely
taught.
You can call what I believe whatever you want.
That won't make it wrong, nor do you get to
blame me for your Dispensational kooks cronies.
I was suggesting that *your theology* may have
been the reason why some Christians ignored
persecution of Jews in Europe.
No, you were trying to point the finger my way,
because you couldn't face the facts of what
Dispensationalism teaches.
I'm not defending the theology because I don't
hold to the theology.
I'm only questioning your argument.
I don't think the facts are right.
The Catholic church, and some Protestant churches changed
*replacement theology* because they believed it was
dangerous.
You still hold to replacement theology. So
the dangerous theology (in the eyes of European
Christians) was/is your theology.
It is clear to me that you didn't like what you read,
because you know it's true and lashed out at me.
Do you post here to debate, or to indulge in your
persecution complex?
Do you post to insult people? Or to insult them
and then claim they have a persecution complex?
Either way, it's simply you trying to take the focus
off of yourself and your doctrine.
You can stamp your feet, as much as you like, Dave.
We all expect that sort of thing from you.
It gets very tedious.
What would be a nice change, would be if you
could give a reasoned argument for once,
rather than rushing to self-pity every time
you're asked to support your arguments.
You want to win every time, but without going to all
the effort of arguing your point intelligently.
That's just laziness and lack of respect for
other posters' points of view.
--
***Emma***
http://www.anglicanfriendsofisrael.com/
http://www.bringmadeleinehome.com/
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
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| Title: Re: Dispensational Kook Factor |
29 Sep 2007 11:08:20 AM |
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On 29 Sep 2007 06:33:09 -0700, Emma <emma@newsguy.com>
wrote:
In article <4r3sf3t8c6gdh49nuljsg0oq63jfofrh69@4ax.com>, Pastor Dave says...
The Dispensational Kook Factor, By Gary DeMar
Some dispensationalists are dangerous. When Jews were
being exterminated under Adolf Hitler’s anti-Jewish policy,
a number of prominent dispensational writers believed that
prophecy had set the course of inevitability for the Jews.
According to dispensationalism, two-thirds of the Jews will
be killed during a future “great tribulation” (Zech. 13:8).
This led some to advocate a “hands off” approach when
millions of Jews were being taken to concentration camps
and marched into gas ovens. Bible prophecy had made
it so (Bruce Lindsey).
Actually, I don't think many Christians in Europe were
aware of this theology. It isn't mainstream
Christian theology and never has been.
Actually, this type of thing is very common today
and is entirely a Dispensational thing.
It may be common today (in the US, btw, and not especially
elsewhere), but you were blaming it for the persecution
of Jews in Europe in the 1940's.
If you dispute the facts, then write to the author,
who btw, quoted references.
You quoted the author. If you agree with him,
then you'll have to defend his beliefs by providing
references from Europe in the 1940's.
Your demands do not concern me. If you want
references, go find them. And your lame attempts
to avoid dealing with the facts will not work on me.
I have a brain.
The fact is, I posted a reference. That is all I am
bound to do. And let's face it, your post was not
about disagreeing with the facts. It was you
insulting me.
You now wish to claim that it can't be true, because
you don't want it to be true. And the truth is, even
if I posted a hundred references, you would demand
something else, or disappear and pretend later that
I ran away from the thread, because honesty is not
even in your vocabulary. It never is, for a
Dispensationalist/Futurist.
The fact is, all I did, was show that a book was written
which shows that these ideas existed and it was a
Dispensationalist thing. And that is a fact everyone
knows, but doesn't want to admit to, including you.
So I think it was more likely that replacement theology
(which you hold to, Dave) was the reason why so
many Christians turned a blind eye. That was widely
taught.
You can call what I believe whatever you want.
That won't make it wrong, nor do you get to
blame me for your Dispensational kooks cronies.
I was suggesting that *your theology* may have
been the reason why some Christians ignored
persecution of Jews in Europe.
No, you were trying to point the finger my way,
because you couldn't face the facts of what
Dispensationalism teaches.
I'm not defending the theology because I don't
hold to the theology.
Yes you do. You are a Dispensationalist.
I'm only questioning your argument.
No, you weren't. You were insulting me.
I don't think the facts are right.
Then write to the author. Or, even prove them
wrong here, if you like.
You can stamp your feet, as much as you like, Dave.
I am not the one stamping my feet and this is just
another attempt on your part, to divert attention
away from the fact that your response amounted
to nothing more than an insult.
Now if you want to play that game in which you
insult people and then claim it's their fault for
pointing out your inability to respond on point,
then go ahead. But don't be dumb enough to
think that you have fooled me.
It's the sort of thing we expect from you.
Then you don't need to read my posts. And lying
and claiming that what you wrote was not insults,
is just that. A lie. And that was just another insult.
Now you can either produce something that disputes
what i posted, or you can't. The fact is, the book
was written by a Dispensationalist author and it
was quoted from. If you don't like what it says,
take it up with the author of that book. But don't
think I'm stupid enough to believe that Dispensationalism
doesn't teach that sort of thing, nor that you aren't
a Dispensationalist. It does and you are.
Now any further insults from you, will be ignored.
Thus far, you have proved that you are not capable
of intelligent conversation, whenever you feel that
your doctrine is threatened.
The Catholic church, and some Protestant churches changed
*replacement theology* because they believed it was
dangerous.
Here you are, trying to change the subject again.
Who brought up "replacement theology" in this
"discussion"? Oh yea, that's right! That was you!
You still hold to replacement theology.
What asses like you do, is try to attack the other person,
when you can't dispute the facts.
Fact 1: You don't know me, nor what I believe.
Fact 2: Liars like you, label what others believe
and then claim it's evil, as if that makes
it evil. But ask you to prove it and all
that comes out is insults.
Fact 3: You keep trying to change the subject
and keep insulting me. So now you
have some back.
Emma, you are a lying *****. And that is a fact.
You have no honesty within you and no integrity.
So if you don't have anything constructive to add
and nothing to dispute what was said with, then
just skip past my posts and you won't look like
the lying ***** that you are.
Now run along and go to church and shout out
about how it's all about you and your generation.
Say amen, when they say, "We're the generation!"
about Jesus' words, "this generation", but argue
that He didn't mean that, when it's pointed out
that He said it about His own generation. Yes,
tell us all what "Jesus *REALLY* meant",
because you are smarter than Jesus was!
No run along and go bother someone that might
fall for your crap.
--
If you wouldn't say it in person, why say it online?
To email me, just remove the underscores.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Fred A Stover" |
|
| Title: Re: Dispensational Kook Factor |
29 Sep 2007 04:51:01 PM |
|
|
"Pastor Knave" < SATAN_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:m4tsf3dh4d649l5ll5l9vkqr9m5ui99u84@4ax.com...
On 29 Sep 2007 06:33:09 -0700, Emma <emma@newsguy.com>
wrote:
<snip>
You quoted the author. If you agree with him,
then you'll have to defend his beliefs by providing
references from Europe in the 1940's.
Your demands do not concern me. If you want
references, go find them.
THERE ARE NO REFERENCES FOR YOUR LIES, SATAN!
<snip>
His,
The Day of The Lord
A key to understanding many of the prophecies referring to the day of the
Lord or "that day" is a clear understanding of the day of the Lord. It
begins with the Lord's return for His millennial reign (2 Pet 3:10) followed
by the second resurrection among the rest of the dead: "And I saw thrones,
and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them: and I saw the souls of
them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God,
and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had
received his mark on their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and
reigned with Christ a thousand years (but the rest of the dead lived not
again until the thousand years were finished). This is the first
resurrection" (Rev 20:4-5). The day of the Lord is the thousand year
millennium, which is followed by eternity with a new heaven and earth: "And
I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth
were passed away; and there was no more sea" (Rev 21:1).
The day of the Lord is the day of His wrath: "Behold, the day of the Lord
comes, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and
he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. For the stars of heaven and
the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be
darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to
shine. And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their
iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay
low the haughtiness of the terrible. I will make a man more precious than
fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir. Therefore I will shake
the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of
the Lord of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger" (Is 13:9-13): "And I
saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat on him was
called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he does judge and make war.
His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he
had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed
with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And
the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in
fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goes a sharp sword, that
with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of
iron: and he treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty
God" (Rev. 19:11-15).
The day of the Lord is also the day of His rest: "For he spoke in a certain
place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from
all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Seeing therefore it remains that some must enter therein, and they to whom
it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief (Heb 4:4-8).
The day of the Lord is the seventh millennial day (Heb 4:4,7), and what is
prophesied along with the seventh millennial day is the first 6 millennial
days, which make the seventh day the seventh: The first 1000-year day is the
day in which Adam died at the age of 930 years (Gen 5:5): "But of the tree
of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat of it: for in the day
that you eat thereof you shall surely die" (Gen 2:17) The last or latter
days, the three 1000-year days at the end of the week, are the time of the
Messiah (Acts 2:17, Heb 1:2): "And it shall come to pass in the last days,
that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the
mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations [goyim:
uncircumcised] shall flow unto it" (Is 2:2), and the uncircumcised have
been flowing into the Lord's house "free from the law of sin and death" (Rom
8:2) since His first coming. To the Jews, Hosea also prophesied of these
last three days: "After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will
raise us up, and we shall live in his sight" (Hos 6:2). The day of the Lord
is the last millennial day of the last days: "But, beloved, be not ignorant
of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a
thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as
some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that
any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of
the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall
pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat,
the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up" (2 Pet
3:8-10).
Prophecies become clearer when we read them within the framework of seven
millennial days between the fall of Adam and the final, white throne
judgment with "the last days" or "latter days" being the three between the
Lord's first coming and the judgment and with the day of the Lord, being
also the day of His wrath and the day of His rest, being the last thousand
year day: "For yet seven days, ... and every living substance that I have
made will I destroy from off the face of the earth" (Gen 7:4).
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Emma" |
|
| Title: Re: Dispensational Kook Factor |
29 Sep 2007 12:53:55 PM |
|
|
In article <m4tsf3dh4d649l5ll5l9vkqr9m5ui99u84@4ax.com>, Pastor Dave says...
If you dispute the facts, then write to the author,
who btw, quoted references.
You quoted the author. If you agree with him,
then you'll have to defend his beliefs by providing
references from Europe in the 1940's.
Your demands do not concern me. If you want
references, go find them.
If you want to make an intelligent argument,
then you have to back it up with facts and
references. I'm not going to do your work
for you.
And your lame attempts
to avoid dealing with the facts will not work on me.
I have a brain.
If you have a brain, then prove it, and look for some
references and make reasoned arguments.
The fact is, I posted a reference. That is all I am
bound to do.
You posted somebody's opinion, which you were presenting
as factual, but you haven't provided references for
these "facts".
And let's face it, your post was not
about disagreeing with the facts. It was you
insulting me.
I have no need to insult you, because you do an
excellent job of making yourself look foolish.
I hardly need to point it out.
You now wish to claim that it can't be true, because
you don't want it to be true.
It don't think it's true because I know that
the theology wasn't common in Europe.
If you think otherwise, then prove it.
Do a bit of research. Don't be so lazy.
And the truth is, even
if I posted a hundred references, you would demand
something else, or disappear and pretend later that
I ran away from the thread, because honesty is not
even in your vocabulary. It never is, for a
Dispensationalist/Futurist.
I'm Church of England. Not American Fundamentalist.
Not Dispensationalist. Not Futurist.
The fact is, all I did, was show that a book was written
which shows that these ideas existed and it was a
Dispensationalist thing. And that is a fact everyone
knows, but doesn't want to admit to, including you.
One book is not good enough.
That's not evidence for your argument.
If we were all as lazy as you, we might accept
one book because we wouldn't be bothered to
check out the facts.
And lying
and claiming that what you wrote was not insults,
is just that. A lie. And that was just another insult.
I've told you before, if I wanted to insult you
I would call you a:
"pretentious, lazy, overbearing, hotheaded twerp!".
*That* would be how I would insult you.
And even then, it would be far too polite
to be anywhere near the truth.
Now any further insults from you, will be ignored.
Thus far, you have proved that you are not capable
of intelligent conversation, whenever you feel that
your doctrine is threatened.
If you want to discuss Church of England doctrine,
then fine. I didn't think that was your argument
though.
The Catholic church, and some Protestant churches changed
*replacement theology* because they believed it was
dangerous.
Here you are, trying to change the subject again.
Who brought up "replacement theology" in this
"discussion"? Oh yea, that's right! That was you!
Yes, I did. I was explaining that the Christians
in Europe in the 1940's were more likely to have
been influenced by replacement theology.
So it was relevant to the argument.
You still hold to replacement theology.
What asses like you do, is try to attack the other person,
when you can't dispute the facts.
Fact 1: You don't know me, nor what I believe.
Fact 2: Liars like you, label what others believe
and then claim it's evil, as if that makes
it evil. But ask you to prove it and all
that comes out is insults.
I think replacement theology had evil consequences, yes.
Fact 3: You keep trying to change the subject
and keep insulting me. So now you
have some back.
Emma, you are a lying *****. And that is a fact.
You have no honesty within you and no integrity.
So if you don't have anything constructive to add
and nothing to dispute what was said with, then
just skip past my posts and you won't look like
the lying ***** that you are.
Shall we get back to discussing the subject of
your post?
Or, if you can't find any historical references,
and your only evidence is one book, then I
suppose you will have to admit that you don't
have very much to support your argument.
And you'll have to resort to posting a load
of abuse instead, to compensate for your inadequacy.
--
***Emma***
http://www.anglicanfriendsofisrael.com/
http://www.bringmadeleinehome.com/
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mordecai mldavisplease dont" |
|
| Title: Re: Dispensational Kook Factor |
29 Sep 2007 04:51:48 PM |
|
|
Emma wrote:
Emma, you are a lying *****. And that is a fact.
You have no honesty within you and no integrity.
So if you don't have anything constructive to add
and nothing to dispute what was said with, then
just skip past my posts and you won't look like
the lying ***** that you are.
Shall we get back to discussing the subject of
your post?
Or, if you can't find any historical references,
and your only evidence is one book, then I
suppose you will have to admit that you don't
have very much to support your argument.
And you'll have to resort to posting a load
of abuse instead, to compensate for your inadequacy.
--
***Emma***
http://www.anglicanfriendsofisrael.com/
http://www.bringmadeleinehome.com/
Pastor dave sort of reminds me of Morris.
I asked Morris a question he could not answer.
He had a choice - to change his ideas on a minor issue, (thus proving he was
wrong) or argue his ideas not relying on one verse.
He chose a unique answer - he discussed my genitals.
In so doing, the discussion moved from his inability to answer the question and
the truth of the theology in point ... to the fact he was a nasty piece of work,
and how despicable and naughty he was.
He thought that gave him a better outcome, so he made a choice, junked his
reputation, refused to discuss theology - was marked as a useless insulting *****
....
*BUT* he did not have to admit his theology was wrong.
The trade off? Before he was a man with theology he could not justify, as he
ONLY believed what he was taught it ... ignorance so to speak.
Afterwards, a man who believed a lie, knowing it was a lie ... who taught others
the same lie knowingly and deliberately, who hated truth as he believed AND
PROPAGATED a lie, who had a bad reputation - and who sat and yelled at people
who knew that he was abusive.
I think it was a bad deal for him.
But it was his choice.
Whenever someone deteriorates into insults, it is a defence mechanism.
They might be afraid of being hurt, they might be desiring to change the topic
.... or in the case of Morris - it was a deliberate tactic to chose to live a
lie.
I have said often - the way you find the answer is to look at what they do, how
they do it and why they do it.
Then you KNOW what they really seek. Not the words of their mouth, their real
motives.
--
Mordecai!
When words and actions disagree, believe actions.
When rhetoric and reality disagree, either rhetoric is wrong or reality is
wrong, and reality is Never wrong.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: Dispensational Kook Factor |
29 Sep 2007 10:06:54 PM |
|
|
On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 07:21:48 +0930, Mordecai
<"mldavis(please dont spam)"@internode.on.net> wrote:
Emma wrote:
Emma, you are a lying *****. And that is a fact.
You have no honesty within you and no integrity.
So if you don't have anything constructive to add
and nothing to dispute what was said with, then
just skip past my posts and you won't look like
the lying ***** that you are.
Shall we get back to discussing the subject of
your post?
Or, if you can't find any historical references,
and your only evidence is one book, then I
suppose you will have to admit that you don't
have very much to support your argument.
And you'll have to resort to posting a load
of abuse instead, to compensate for your inadequacy.
--
***Emma***
http://www.anglicanfriendsofisrael.com/
http://www.bringmadeleinehome.com/
Pastor dave sort of reminds me of Morris.
And you remind me of just about every ***** I've met.
--
If you wouldn't say it in person, why say it online?
To email me, just remove the underscores.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Fred A Stover" |
|
| Title: Re: Dispensational Kook Factor |
30 Sep 2007 01:21:29 AM |
|
|
"Pastor Knave" < SATAN_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ll4uf35oug392murdfho2nin19memsh02k@4ax.com...
On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 07:21:48 +0930, Mordecai
<"mldavis(please dont spam)"@internode.on.net> wrote:
***Emma***
http://www.anglicanfriendsofisrael.com/
http://www.bringmadeleinehome.com/
Pastor dave sort of reminds me of Morris.
And you remind me of just about every ***** I've met.
Satan, you're an idiot, and you're the *****.
His,
The Day of The Lord
A key to understanding many of the prophecies referring to the day of the
Lord or "that day" is a clear understanding of the day of the Lord. It
begins with the Lord's return for His millennial reign (2 Pet 3:10) followed
by the second resurrection among the rest of the dead: "And I saw thrones,
and they sat on them, and judgment was given to them: and I saw the souls of
them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God,
and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had
received his mark on their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and
reigned with Christ a thousand years (but the rest of the dead lived not
again until the thousand years were finished). This is the first
resurrection" (Rev 20:4-5). The day of the Lord is the thousand year
millennium, which is followed by eternity with a new heaven and earth: "And
I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth
were passed away; and there was no more sea" (Rev 21:1).
The day of the Lord is the day of His wrath: "Behold, the day of the Lord
comes, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and
he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. For the stars of heaven and
the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be
darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to
shine. And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their
iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay
low the haughtiness of the terrible. I will make a man more precious than
fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir. Therefore I will shake
the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of
the Lord of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger" (Is 13:9-13): "And I
saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat on him was
called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he does judge and make war.
His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he
had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed
with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And
the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in
fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth goes a sharp sword, that
with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of
iron: and he treads the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty
God" (Rev. 19:11-15).
The day of the Lord is also the day of His rest: "For he spoke in a certain
place of the seventh day on this wise, And God did rest the seventh day from
all his works. And in this place again, If they shall enter into my rest.
Seeing therefore it remains that some must enter therein, and they to whom
it was first preached entered not in because of unbelief (Heb 4:4-8).
The day of the Lord is the seventh millennial day (Heb 4:4,7), and what is
prophesied along with the seventh millennial day is the first 6 millennial
days, which make the seventh day the seventh: The first 1000-year day is the
day in which Adam died at the age of 930 years (Gen 5:5): "But of the tree
of the knowledge of good and evil, you shall not eat of it: for in the day
that you eat thereof you shall surely die" (Gen 2:17) The last or latter
days, the three 1000-year days at the end of the week, are the time of the
Messiah (Acts 2:17, Heb 1:2): "And it shall come to pass in the last days,
that the mountain of the Lord's house shall be established in the top of the
mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations [goyim:
uncircumcised] shall flow unto it" (Is 2:2), and the uncircumcised have
been flowing into the Lord's house "free from the law of sin and death" (Rom
8:2) since His first coming. To the Jews, Hosea also prophesied of these
last three days: "After two days will he revive us: in the third day he will
raise us up, and we shall live in his sight" (Hos 6:2). The day of the Lord
is the last millennial day of the last days: "But, beloved, be not ignorant
of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a
thousand years as one day. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as
some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that
any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. But the day of
the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall
pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat,
the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up" (2 Pet
3:8-10).
Prophecies become clearer when we read them within the framework of seven
millennial days between the fall of Adam and the final, white throne
judgment with "the last days" or "latter days" being the three between the
Lord's first coming and the judgment and with the day of the Lord, being
also the day of His wrath and the day of His rest, being the last thousand
year day: "For yet seven days, ... and every living substance that I have
made will I destroy from off the face of the earth" (Gen 7:4).
.
|
|
|
| User: "Mordecai mldavisplease dont" |
|
| Title: Re: Dispensational Kook Factor |
30 Sep 2007 04:34:06 PM |
|
|
Fred A Stover wrote:
"Pastor Knave" < SATAN_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ll4uf35oug392murdfho2nin19memsh02k@4ax.com...
On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 07:21:48 +0930, Mordecai
<"mldavis(please dont spam)"@internode.on.net> wrote:
***Emma***
http://www.anglicanfriendsofisrael.com/
http://www.bringmadeleinehome.com/
Pastor dave sort of reminds me of Morris.
And you remind me of just about every ***** I've met.
Satan, you're an idiot, and you're the *****.
His,
Umm - it seems pastor dave has replied.
I note with sadness that he has ...
a) accepted the observation I made about him
b) Confirmed the way he responds to said situations.
c) chooses to make the same fundamental error that poor Morris made and will not
learn.
However, this is for you.
The situation I used before was one I am ashamed of ... I was trying to make
Morris look at himself and choose truth. Not the truth of "Right doctrines"
which seem to me a waste of time ... but the truth of seeking and weighing the
evidence.
I took one of the doctrines I had tested ... one I had utterly disproved .. and
discussed it.
Morris took offence.
He took out his favourite verse.
I gave an alternative interpretation.
Suddenly "I was interpreting this verse, he was not."
So I showed him in the same way he used the verse - how he had problems with
another relationship.
And I asked a question - based upon his own "non interpretation" which showed he
had an error.
Now Morris could not answer my question - which implied his "non interpretation"
was false.
And that implied he had to change in some way.
Now a man who loves truth will choose truth.
A man who was only honest would change.
A man who is only religious is under extreme threat ...
And this was poor Morris. A man who only had religion.
So when a man who only has religion is threatened with the truth - the outcome
can be self destruction.
I have not tried to correct pastor dave. I learned by Morris that you do not
threaten any who do not want to learn.
So when Pastor Dave started ....
a) Preaching ...
b) snivelling
and c) refusing to talk ...
I had learned that such people have neither truth nor a desire for truth and
there is no point in discussing anything with them.
I blocked him.
I have no need to reply insult for insult, anger for anger.
I have no duty of care to correct a persons beliefs.
He will not change and does not have truth so I can get nothing from him, he can
get nothing from me - and there is nothing more to say.
Please note, with Morris, I showed him the error of his way - tested him and
disproved him.
I have NOT done the same with pastor Dave.
He has "no question he refuses to answer."
The reason I have spoken to you is that you trade insult for insult.
This is a way which achieves for pastor dave the distraction and response to any
criticism of any type - which justifies to his mind his response, and reinforces
the idea he is correct and the world is wrong.
If he is right - then people will be convinced.
If people disagree with him - they are arseholes which proves he is right and
everyone else is wrong.
Can I get him to consider any issue by any statement on my part? No.
Is trading insults doing anything? Well yes, it confirms to pastor dave that we
are arseholes and thus he is correct.
I personally refuse to endorse the outcome of discussing theology with pastor
dave - as any response MUST reinforce this psychological condition.
There is a particular verse which I have tested and proved.
Rebuke a fool lest he be arrogant in his folly.
Do not rebuke a fool (beyond this) lest he hate you.
Trading insults is not wisdom, does nothing for you, and nothing for pastor
dave.
Either talk to him as human and ignore theology - or do as I have done and block
him.
--
Mordecai!
When words and actions disagree, believe actions.
When rhetoric and reality disagree, either rhetoric is wrong or reality is
wrong, and reality is Never wrong.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Fred A Stover" |
|
| Title: Re: Dispensational Kook Factor |
01 Oct 2007 02:31:22 PM |
|
|
"Mordecai" <"mldavis(please dont spam)"@internode.on.net> wrote in message
news:4700164E.19929FE8@internode.on.net...
Fred A Stover wrote:
"Pastor Knave" < SATAN_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ll4uf35oug392murdfho2nin19memsh02k@4ax.com...
On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 07:21:48 +0930, Mordecai
<"mldavis(please dont spam)"@internode.on.net> wrote:
***Emma***
http://www.anglicanfriendsofisrael.com/
http://www.bringmadeleinehome.com/
Pastor dave sort of reminds me of Morris.
And you remind me of just about every ***** I've met.
Satan, you're an idiot, and you're the *****.
His,
Umm - it seems pastor dave has replied.
I note with sadness that he has ...
a) accepted the observation I made about him
b) Confirmed the way he responds to said situations.
c) chooses to make the same fundamental error that poor Morris made and
will not
learn.
However, this is for you.
The situation I used before was one I am ashamed of ... I was trying to
make
Morris look at himself and choose truth. Not the truth of "Right
doctrines"
which seem to me a waste of time ... but the truth of seeking and weighing
the
evidence.
I took one of the doctrines I had tested ... one I had utterly disproved
.. and
discussed it.
Morris took offence.
He took out his favourite verse.
I gave an alternative interpretation.
Suddenly "I was interpreting this verse, he was not."
So I showed him in the same way he used the verse - how he had problems
with
another relationship.
And I asked a question - based upon his own "non interpretation" which
showed he
had an error.
Now Morris could not answer my question - which implied his "non
interpretation"
was false.
And that implied he had to change in some way.
Now a man who loves truth will choose truth.
A man who was only honest would change.
A man who is only religious is under extreme threat ...
And this was poor Morris. A man who only had religion.
So when a man who only has religion is threatened with the truth - the
outcome
can be self destruction.
I have not tried to correct pastor dave. I learned by Morris that you do
not
threaten any who do not want to learn.
So when Pastor Dave started ....
a) Preaching ...
b) snivelling
and c) refusing to talk ...
I had learned that such people have neither truth nor a desire for truth
and
there is no point in discussing anything with them.
I blocked him.
I have no need to reply insult for insult, anger for anger.
I have no duty of care to correct a persons beliefs.
He will not change and does not have truth so I can get nothing from him,
he can
get nothing from me - and there is nothing more to say.
Please note, with Morris, I showed him the error of his way - tested him
and
disproved him.
I have NOT done the same with pastor Dave.
He has "no question he refuses to answer."
The reason I have spoken to you is that you trade insult for insult.
This is a way which achieves for pastor dave the distraction and response
to any
criticism of any type - which justifies to his mind his response, and
reinforces
the idea he is correct and the world is wrong.
If he is right - then people will be convinced.
If people disagree with him - they are arseholes which proves he is right
and
everyone else is wrong.
Can I get him to consider any issue by any statement on my part? No.
Is trading insults doing anything? Well yes, it confirms to pastor dave
that we
are arseholes and thus he is correct.
I personally refuse to endorse the outcome of discussing theology with
pastor
dave - as any response MUST reinforce this psychological condition.
There is a particular verse which I have tested and proved.
Rebuke a fool lest he be arrogant in his folly.
Do not rebuke a fool (beyond this) lest he hate you.
Trading insults is not wisdom, does nothing for you, and nothing for
pastor
dave.
Either talk to him as human and ignore theology - or do as I have done and
block
him.
--
Mordecai!
When words and actions disagree, believe actions.
When rhetoric and reality disagree, either rhetoric is wrong or reality is
wrong, and reality is Never wrong.
Hello Mordecai,
With regard to the knave, there is no theological discussion with him, and
from the consistencies in the judgments he's made of others I have a picture
of the knave behind the knave. I ***** his vanity, he spams his lunacy, and
everyone gets to see he's an idiot.
I have no argument with what you've said, except, fun is fun.
Thank you,
His
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon ota akoueto Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
.
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| User: "gatekeeper" |
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| Title: Re: Dispensational Kook Factor |
30 Sep 2007 07:08:58 PM |
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On Sep 30, 3:34 pm, Mordecai <"mldavis(please dont
spam)"@internode.on.net> wrote:
Fred A Stover wrote:
"Pastor Knave" < SATAN_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ll4uf35oug392murdfho2nin19memsh02k@4ax.com...
On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 07:21:48 +0930, Mordecai
<"mldavis(please dont spam)"@internode.on.net> wrote:
***Emma***
http://www.anglicanfriendsofisrael.com/
http://www.bringmadeleinehome.com/
Pastor dave sort of reminds me of Morris.
And you remind me of just about every ***** I've met.
Satan, you're an idiot, and you're the *****.
His,
Umm - it seems pastor dave has replied.
I note with sadness that he has ...
a) accepted the observation I made about him
b) Confirmed the way he responds to said situations.
c) chooses to make the same fundamental error that poor Morris made and will not
learn.
However, this is for you.
The situation I used before was one I am ashamed of ... I was trying to make
Morris look at himself and choose truth. Not the truth of "Right doctrines"
which seem to me a waste of time ... but the truth of seeking and weighing the
evidence.
I took one of the doctrines I had tested ... one I had utterly disproved .. and
discussed it.
Morris took offence.
He took out his favourite verse.
I gave an alternative interpretation.
Suddenly "I was interpreting this verse, he was not."
So I showed him in the same way he used the verse - how he had problems with
another relationship.
And I asked a question - based upon his own "non interpretation" which showed he
had an error.
Now Morris could not answer my question - which implied his "non interpretation"
was false.
And that implied he had to change in some way.
Now a man who loves truth will choose truth.
A man who was only honest would change.
A man who is only religious is under extreme threat ...
And this was poor Morris. A man who only had religion.
So when a man who only has religion is threatened with the truth - the outcome
can be self destruction.
I have not tried to correct pastor dave. I learned by Morris that you do not
threaten any who do not want to learn.
So when Pastor Dave started ....
a) Preaching ...
b) snivelling
and c) refusing to talk ...
I had learned that such people have neither truth nor a desire for truth and
there is no point in discussing anything with them.
I blocked him.
I have no need to reply insult for insult, anger for anger.
I have no duty of care to correct a persons beliefs.
He will not change and does not have truth so I can get nothing from him, he can
get nothing from me - and there is nothing more to say.
Please note, with Morris, I showed him the error of his way - tested him and
disproved him.
I have NOT done the same with pastor Dave.
He has "no question he refuses to answer."
The reason I have spoken to you is that you trade insult for insult.
This is a way which achieves for pastor dave the distraction and response to any
criticism of any type - which justifies to his mind his response, and reinforces
the idea he is correct and the world is wrong.
If he is right - then people will be convinced.
If people disagree with him - they are arseholes which proves he is right and
everyone else is wrong.
Can I get him to consider any issue by any statement on my part? No.
Is trading insults doing anything? Well yes, it confirms to pastor dave that we
are arseholes and thus he is correct.
I personally refuse to endorse the outcome of discussing theology with pastor
dave - as any response MUST reinforce this psychological condition.
There is a particular verse which I have tested and proved.
Rebuke a fool lest he be arrogant in his folly.
Do not rebuke a fool (beyond this) lest he hate you.
Trading insults is not wisdom, does nothing for you, and nothing for pastor
dave.
Either talk to him as human and ignore theology - or do as I have done and block
him.
--
Mordecai!
When words and actions disagree, believe actions.
When rhetoric and reality disagree, either rhetoric is wrong or reality is
wrong, and reality is Never wrong.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
If you have blocked him, then why do you continue to respond in
reference to his post? Once you read the post by Emma, you would have
seen that she was responding to Dave. Then you offer your wisdom
regarding Dave yourself! Now I am not taking a position on the wisdom
you offer, only curious why do you bother, if you feel the way you
apparently do? Why not just walk away, and live in peace yourself?
Why not take your own advice if it is such good stuff?
The Eastgate is open, the King is in Residence!
Whosoever will, may come in!
Gatekeeper
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| User: "Fred A Stover" |
|
| Title: Re: Dispensational Kook Factor |
01 Oct 2007 03:33:00 PM |
|
|
"gatekeeper" <gatekeeper.eastgate@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1191197338.296851.207940@22g2000hsm.googlegroups.com...
On Sep 30, 3:34 pm, Mordecai <"mldavis(please dont
spam)"@internode.on.net> wrote:
Fred A Stover wrote:
"Pastor Knave" < SATAN_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ll4uf35oug392murdfho2nin19memsh02k@4ax.com...
On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 07:21:48 +0930, Mordecai
<"mldavis(please dont spam)"@internode.on.net> wrote:
***Emma***
http://www.anglicanfriendsofisrael.com/
http://www.bringmadeleinehome.com/
Pastor dave sort of reminds me of Morris.
And you remind me of just about every ***** I've met.
Satan, you're an idiot, and you're the *****.
His,
Umm - it seems pastor dave has replied.
I note with sadness that he has ...
a) accepted the observation I made about him
b) Confirmed the way he responds to said situations.
c) chooses to make the same fundamental error that poor Morris made and
will not
learn.
However, this is for you.
The situation I used before was one I am ashamed of ... I was trying to
make
Morris look at himself and choose truth. Not the truth of "Right
doctrines"
which seem to me a waste of time ... but the truth of seeking and
weighing the
evidence.
I took one of the doctrines I had tested ... one I had utterly disproved
.. and
discussed it.
Morris took offence.
He took out his favourite verse.
I gave an alternative interpretation.
Suddenly "I was interpreting this verse, he was not."
So I showed him in the same way he used the verse - how he had problems
with
another relationship.
And I asked a question - based upon his own "non interpretation" which
showed he
had an error.
Now Morris could not answer my question - which implied his "non
interpretation"
was false.
And that implied he had to change in some way.
Now a man who loves truth will choose truth.
A man who was only honest would change.
A man who is only religious is under extreme threat ...
And this was poor Morris. A man who only had religion.
So when a man who only has religion is threatened with the truth - the
outcome
can be self destruction.
I have not tried to correct pastor dave. I learned by Morris that you do
not
threaten any who do not want to learn.
So when Pastor Dave started ....
a) Preaching ...
b) snivelling
and c) refusing to talk ...
I had learned that such people have neither truth nor a desire for truth
and
there is no point in discussing anything with them.
I blocked him.
I have no need to reply insult for insult, anger for anger.
I have no duty of care to correct a persons beliefs.
He will not change and does not have truth so I can get nothing from him,
he can
get nothing from me - and there is nothing more to say.
Please note, with Morris, I showed him the error of his way - tested him
and
disproved him.
I have NOT done the same with pastor Dave.
He has "no question he refuses to answer."
The reason I have spoken to you is that you trade insult for insult.
This is a way which achieves for pastor dave the distraction and response
to any
criticism of any type - which justifies to his mind his response, and
reinforces
the idea he is correct and the world is wrong.
If he is right - then people will be convinced.
If people disagree with him - they are arseholes which proves he is right
and
everyone else is wrong.
Can I get him to consider any issue by any statement on my part? No.
Is trading insults doing anything? Well yes, it confirms to pastor dave
that we
are arseholes and thus he is correct.
I personally refuse to endorse the outcome of discussing theology with
pastor
dave - as any response MUST reinforce this psychological condition.
There is a particular verse which I have tested and proved.
Rebuke a fool lest he be arrogant in his folly.
Do not rebuke a fool (beyond this) lest he hate you.
Trading insults is not wisdom, does nothing for you, and nothing for
pastor
dave.
Either talk to him as human and ignore theology - or do as I have done
and block
him.
--
Mordecai!
When words and actions disagree, believe actions.
When rhetoric and reality disagree, either rhetoric is wrong or reality
is
wrong, and reality is Never wrong.- Hide quoted text -
- Show quoted text -
If you have blocked him, then why do you continue to respond in
reference to his post? Once you read the post by Emma, you would have
seen that she was responding to Dave. Then you offer your wisdom
regarding Dave yourself! Now I am not taking a position on the wisdom
you offer, only curious why do you bother, if you feel the way you
apparently do? Why not just walk away, and live in peace yourself?
Why not take your own advice if it is such good stuff?
Duh..... You don't suppose he saw Emma's post, duh......
2 John 1:7 (ASV)
For many deceivers are gone forth into the world, even they that confess
not that Jesus Christ cometh in the flesh. This is the deceiver and the
antichrist.
His,
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon ota akoueto Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
.
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| User: "Pastor Dave" |
|
| Title: Re: Dispensational Kook Factor |
29 Sep 2007 10:06:10 PM |
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|
On 29 Sep 2007 10:53:55 -0700, Emma <emma@newsguy.com>
wrote:
Your demands do not concern me. If you want
references, go find them.
If you want to make an intelligent argument,
then you have to back it up with facts and
Go play your ***** game with someone else,
asswipe. I did back it up and lying about it
makes you a liar!
I have no need to insult you
And yet you did, asswipe.
because you do an excellent job of making
yourself look foolish.
And you say you don't insult me?
I'm Church of England. Not American Fundamentalist.
Not Dispensationalist. Not Futurist.
You are indeed a Dispensationalist and a Fundamentalist.
One book is not good enough.
Go screw yourself. I offered a book that also gave
references. You offered an insult, you idiot.
Now why don't you go talk to yourself in the mirror
some more.
Goodbye, idiot.
--
If you wouldn't say it in person, why say it online?
To email me, just remove the underscores.
.
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| User: "Fred A Stover" |
|
| Title: Re: Dispensational Kook Factor |
30 Sep 2007 02:58:30 AM |
|
|
"Pastor Knave" < SATAN_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:gf4uf3tr1r5f4slrssp75raa7ftisuoseg@4ax.com...
On 29 Sep 2007 10:53:55 -0700, Emma <emma@newsguy.com>
wrote:
Your demands do not concern me. If you want
references, go find them.
If you want to make an intelligent argument,
then you have to back it up with facts and
Go play your ***** game with someone else,
asswipe. I did back it up and lying about it
makes you a liar!
Right, Satan, if you've got to use facts instead of lies, you might as well
hang it up.
His.,
--
http://tinyurl.com/2hf6ak
ho echon ota akoueto Preparing the way of the Lord
Verily I say unto you, Whosoever shall not receive the kingdom of God as a
little child, he shall not enter therein. (Matt 10:15)
<)))))))><
.
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| User: "gatekeeper" |
|
| Title: Re: Dispensational Kook Factor |
29 Sep 2007 09:16:04 PM |
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On Sep 29, 10:08 am, Pastor Dave <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote:
On 29 Sep 2007 06:33:09 -0700, Emma <e...@newsguy.com>
wrote:
In article <4r3sf3t8c6gdh49nuljsg0oq63jfofr...@4ax.com>, Pastor Dave says...
The Dispensational Kook Factor, By Gary DeMar
Some dispensationalists are dangerous. When Jews were
being exterminated under Adolf Hitler's anti-Jewish policy,
a number of prominent dispensational writers believed that
prophecy had set the course of inevitability for the Jews.
According to dispensationalism, two-thirds of the Jews will
be killed during a future "great tribulation" (Zech. 13:8).
This led some to advocate a "hands off" approach when
millions of Jews were being taken to concentration camps
and marched into gas ovens. Bible prophecy had made
it so (Bruce Lindsey).
Actually, I don't think many Christians in Europe were
aware of this theology. It isn't mainstream
Christian theology and never has been.
I agree with you Emma here on this point, at that time
Dispensationalism was a minor influence in the world as a whole,
including America! Preterism is even a smaller influence, then and
Now, so how is it that you blame any effect of Replacement Theology on
Preterism? Unless of course you would be willing to concede that
Preterism is infact a powerful influence in the Church and the World
Today!
If the predominant and powerful eschatology is Dispensationalism
today, as the Dispys claim, then now is the time of responsibility of
the Dispys! I am interested in seeing how they affect the world. So
far all I hear is a bunch of talking from them how any problems are
due to the Preterist! LOL, History does repeat itself! If
Dispensationalist are dangerous, it is because they have no spritual
back bone! I think I will start calling them the Dangerous Dispy
Dudes!
Actually, this type of thing is very common today
and is entirely a Dispensational thing.
It may be common today (in the US, btw, and not especially
elsewhere), but you were blaming it for the persecution
of Jews in Europe in the 1940's.
Emma, Dave was quoting DeMar blaming the Dispys for the Persecution of
the Jews!
If you dispute the facts, then write to the author,
who btw, quoted references.
You quoted the author. If you agree with him,
then you'll have to defend his beliefs by providing
references from Europe in the 1940's.
Your demands do not concern me. If you want
references, go find them. And your lame attempts
to avoid dealing with the facts will not work on me.
I have a brain.
The fact is, I posted a reference. That is all I am
bound to do. And let's face it, your post was not
about disagreeing with the facts. It was you
insulting me.
You now wish to claim that it can't be true, because
you don't want it to be true. And the truth is, even
if I posted a hundred references, you would demand
something else, or disappear and pretend later that
I ran away from the thread, because honesty is not
even in your vocabulary. It never is, for a
Dispensationalist/Futurist.
The fact is, all I did, was show that a book was written
which shows that these ideas existed and it was a
Dispensationalist thing. And that is a fact everyone
knows, but doesn't want to admit to, including you.
So I think it was more likely that replacement theology
(which you hold to, Dave) was the reason why so
many Christians turned a blind eye. That was widely
taught.
You can call what I believe whatever you want.
That won't make it wrong, nor do you get to
blame me for your Dispensational kooks cronies.
I was suggesting that *your theology* may have
been the reason why some Christians ignored
persecution of Jews in Europe.
No, you were trying to point the finger my way,
because you couldn't face the facts of what
Dispensationalism teaches.
I'm not defending the theology because I don't
hold to the theology.
Yes you do. You are a Dispensationalist.
I'm only questioning your argument.
No, you weren't. You were insulting me.
I don't think the facts are right.
Then write to the author. Or, even prove them
wrong here, if you like.
You can stamp your feet, as much as you like, Dave.
I am not the one stamping my feet and this is just
another attempt on your part, to divert attent | | | | | | | |
