| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Pastor Dave" |
| Date: |
09 Nov 2007 08:44:21 AM |
| Object: |
Dispensationalism’s Interpretive Inconsistencies |
DISPENSATIONALISM'S INTERPRETIVE INCONSISTENCIES
Dispensational author Paul Benware accuses Preterists
of not interpreting prophetic passages in a literal way.
As an example, he points to Matthew 24:29:
“But immediately after the tribulation of those days
THE SUN WILL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON
WILL NOT GIVE ITS LIGHT, AND THE STARS WILL
FALL from the sky, and the powers of the heavens
will be shaken”.
Since Jesus tells His questioners that this event will take
place before “this generation passes away” (Matt. 24:34),
and “this generation” refers to the generation to whom
Jesus was speaking, the Sun, Moon, and stars language
must refer to events of the first century.
Dispensationalists say this is impossible given a literal
hermeneutic. When similar passages are found in
the Old Testament, Dispensationalists have no trouble
dropping their so-called literal hermeneutic.
Charles L. Feinberg, writing in the Dispensational Liberty
Bible Commentary, writes: “The Sun, Moon, and stars
indicate a complete system of government and remind
the reader of Genesis 37:9”. Notice that Feinberg argues
that Sun, Moon, and stars relate to “a complete system
of government” and not literal stellar phenomena.
He also references Genesis 37:9 where Sun, Moon,
and stars are used as symbols for Israel. Other
Dispensational authors follow a similar pattern
of interpretation.
John A. Martin, writing in the Dispensational-oriented
Bible Knowledge Commentary, argues that “the statements
in [Isaiah] 13:10 about the heavenly bodies (stars … Sun
… Moon) no longer functioning may figuratively describe
the total turnaround of the political structure of the Near
East. The same would be true of the heavens trembling
and the earth shaking (v. 13), figures of speech suggesting
all-encompassing destruction” . So why couldn’t Jesus be
using the language from Isaiah 13:10 in Matthew 24:29
to “figuratively describe the total turnaround of the
political structure of” Israel that took place with the
destruction of Jerusalem in A.D. 70?
Consider the comments of Dispensational author John
F. Walvoord on Revelation 12:1 and how he draws from
the Old Testament to explain the meaning of the cosmic
language used: “The description of the woman as clothed
with the Sun and the Moon is an allusion to Genesis 37:9–11,
where these heavenly bodies represent Jacob and Rachel,
thereby identifying the woman with the fulfillment of
the Abrahamic covenant. In the same context, the stars
represent the patriarchs, the sons of Jacob. The symbolism
may extend beyond this to represent in some sense the
glory of Israel and her ultimate triumph over her enemies.”.
If Sun, Moon, and stars represent Babylon (Isa. 13:10)
and Israel (Gen. 37:9) in the Old Testament and the
New Testament (Rev. 12:1), then why can’t Sun, Moon,
and stars represent Israel in Matthew 24:29?
Benware never discusses these issues and seems oblivious
to what his fellow Dispensationalists say about the nature
of cosmic language and how the prophets used it to describe
past local judgments.
R.T. France’s comments on the use of cosmic language
from his commentary on Mark 13:24–25, which parallel
Matthew 24:29, show how Jesus borrows language from
the prophets and uses them to make His judicial case
against Israel:
The passages cited in [Mark 13] vv. 24b–25 use the language
of cosmic disintegration to denote, as often in prophecy,
climactic (not climatic!) changes to the existing world
order. The lights are going out in the centres of power,
and the way is being prepared for a new world order. . . .
The language of v. 24b is paralleled at several points in
the prophetic literature (Ezk. 32:7; Jo. 2:10, 31; 3:15;
Amos 8:9) but is verbally most closely related to LXX5
Is. 13:10, part of the oracle against Babylon. . . . In most
of these passages the immediate reference is to the imminent
downfall of specific nations (Egypt, Babylon, Edom, Israel,
and Judah). . . . In the original prophetic context,
therefore, such ‘cosmic’ language conveys a powerful
symbolism of political changes with world history, and
is not naturally to be understood of a literal collapse of
the universe at the end of the world. . . . The natural
sense of such language, used in a Jewish context, is
surely clear. Mk. 13:24b–27 is not about the collapse
of the universe, but about drastic events on the world
scene, interpreted in the light of the divine judgment
and purpose. What is startling about the use of such
language by Jesus in this context is not that he uses
the same language as the prophetic, but that he uses
it with regard to the fate of Jerusalem and its temple.
A good way to test interpretive methodologies is to
compare Psalm 18 with the actual historical events
when “the LORD delivered [David] from the hand
of all his enemies and from the hand of Saul”.
The language of the Psalm is as apocalyptic to what we
find in Isaiah 13:10, Matthew 24:29, and Mark 13:24–25,
and yet Psalm 18 describes God’s deliverance of one man
over his flesh and blood enemies with depictions of a
“volcanic eruption that shook the mountains and raised
the sea bed”.
<Begin insert quote of Psalm 18 and comments>
Quoted in part, the Psalm reads about this deliverance
of one man:
Psalm 18:1-15
1) I will love You, O LORD, my strength.
2) The LORD is my rock and my fortress and my deliverer;
My God, my strength, in whom I will trust;
My shield and the horn of my salvation, my stronghold.
3) I will call upon the LORD, who is worthy to be praised;
So shall I be saved from my enemies.
6) In my distress I called upon the LORD,
And cried out to my God;
He heard my voice from His temple,
And my cry came before Him, even to His ears.
7) THEN THE EARTH SHOOK AND TREMBLED;
THE FOUNDATIONS OF THE HILLS ALSO QUAKED
AND WERE SHAKEN, because He was angry.
8) Smoke went up from His nostrils,
And devouring fire from His mouth;
Coals were kindled by it.
9) HE BOWED THE HEAVENS ALSO AND CAME DOWN
WITH DARKNESS UNDER HIS FEET.
10) *_AND HE RODE UPON A CHERUB AND FLEW;_*
He flew upon the wings of the wind.
11) He made darkness His secret place;
His canopy around Him was dark waters
And thick clouds of the skies.
12) From the brightness before Him,
His thick clouds passed WITH HAILSTONES
AND COALS OF FIRE.
13 The LORD thundered from heaven,
And the Most High uttered His voice,
Hailstones and coals of fire.
14) HE SENT OUT HIS ARROWS and scattered the foe,
LIGHTNINGS IN ABUNDANCE, and He vanquished
them.
15) Then the channels of the sea were seen,
The foundations of the world were uncovered
At Your rebuke, O LORD,
At the blast of the breath of Your nostrils.
Yes folks, this is about the deliverance of ONE MAN,
David! So how can anyone say that this type of
language is physically literal?! They claim that it is
when Jesus used it, but on what basis do they do that?
Certainly not by letting Scripture interpret Scripture,
since both the Old and New Testaments show that
this type of language is symbolic! So they pick one
place (and the parallels in Mark and Luke) in which
they WANT it to be physically literal and then have
the gall to call someone a heretic, because they
don't buy into the Dispy (Futurist) concept of;
"It's physically literal in this one spot, because we
said so and you're a heretic if you don't agree!".
Yea, that's some real scholarly work there! (:
<End insert of Psalm 18 and comments>
A reading of David’s encounter with Saul in the historical
narratives of 1 Samuel will show that no series of events
line up with the narrative of Psalm 18. Following the
standards of Dispensational interpretive principles, the
descriptions in Psalm 18 are yet to be fulfilled in some
future prophetic scenario when David and Saul are
raised from the dead to battle again.
Benware and other Dispensationalists insist on a literal
interpretation of Revelation. If the claim is made that
the “stars” are actually meteorites, then there is a problem
with Revelation 12:4 where a “great red dragon” uses his
“tail” to sweep a “third of the stars of heaven” to throw
“them to the earth”. Such a barrage would destroy
the earth, making it uninhabitable for man and beast
for millennia. And yet, we are to believe that the armies
of the entire world are going to pick a fight with Israel
(Rev. 16:13–16) after a third of the earth’s population
has been wiped out. Robert L. Thomas, who consistently
criticizes those who interpret much of Revelation as
symbolic, interprets the stars as “angels who fell with
Satan in history past”. He might be correct, but this
seems to violate his interpretive premise and that
of Dispensationalists in general that “a symbolic
interpretation assumes the absence of strict realism
in a vision”. So why not a real red dragon and
literal stars in this context?
As stated, Dispensationalists are inconsistent in their
interpretive method and their scenarios are pure fantasy
and not proper Scriptural interpretive methodology!
--
To email me, just remove the underscores.
If you don't want to reap the fruits of sin, stay out
of the devil's orchard.
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| User: "H.E. Eickleberry, Jr." |
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| Title: Re: Dispensationalism's Interpretive Inconsistencies |
09 Nov 2007 11:22:33 AM |
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"Pastor Dave" <ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1is8j3l7tbpllnc2cfvhqcnpr8v054p0sd@4ax.com...
DISPENSATIONALISM'S INTERPRETIVE INCONSISTENCIES
As opposed to the Preterists' interpretive inconsistencies?
Ike
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| User: "Gabriel" |
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| Title: Re: Dispensationalism’s Interpretive Inconsistencies (Dave's false teachings) |
10 Nov 2007 11:38:39 AM |
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On Fri, 09 Nov 2007 09:44:21 -0500, Pastor Dave
<ananias917_@_gmail.com> wrote:
DISPENSATIONALISM'S INTERPRETIVE INCONSISTENCIES
[false teachings deleted]
Is it not inconsistent to offer up a version of the interpretations of
scripture that should have a -huge- piece of evidence to back it up,
but this evidence is completely non-existent?
Case in point: If Christ has already returned in judgment, which
preterists claim, then
Revelation 1:7 KJVR Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye
shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of
the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.
"Every eye" would have seen this supernatural event: Christ returning
from the clouds in judgment. Such a supernatural event would have been
clearly recorded in every single culture. It's recorded nowhere.
Preterists run from this fatal flaw in their personal doctrine. Some
preterists even insults you in a most vulgar manner when presented
with the truth of this fatal flaw. Running from false doctrines like
that is fine if you eventually run back to the truth. We pray this
happens for you, as all of us are blind without God's grace.
But I suggest you reconcile this fatal flaw in your personal doctrine,
as -knowingly- teaching false doctrines like this means you're living
in sin against our Holy and Righteous God, which is a dangerous thing.
You clearly know you're wrong, because you dodged and ran and threw
vulgar insults when asked to show this evidence that clearly doesn't
exist. You are attacking the faith of true followers of God, which is
also a dangerous thing. Not to mention that you vulgarly attack true
followers of God. Not to mention that you mock God by calling yourself
a Pastor while vulgarly attacking true followers of God. By your
fruits alone, you are clearly a false teacher.
Matthew 7:15-23 KJVR Beware of false prophets, which come to you in
sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. 16 Ye shall
know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of
thistles? 17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but
a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. 18 A good tree cannot
bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good
fruit. 19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn
down, and cast into the fire. 20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall
know them. 21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall
enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my
Father which is in heaven. 22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord,
Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name and in thy name have cast out
devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? 23 And then will
I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work
iniquity.
You are treading on dangerous ground. Please please consider
reconciling with God. Don't let intellectual pride get in the way. In
the meantime, others need to be made aware of your true nature: that
of a false teacher. So it is as much for them as for you that I post
such things.
Praise God!
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