| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"Michael Christ" |
| Date: |
25 Jun 2003 06:09:08 PM |
| Object: |
Do Christians Sin...2 |
Yes...if you are a christian in name only.
No...if you are a Christian.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
My Sons are born of Me. They are My Spirit.
In them is no darkness at all.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Only One Spirit loves...and loves indeed.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
.
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| User: "Keith" |
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| Title: Re: Do Christians Sin...2 |
20 Aug 2003 01:40:38 AM |
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Do Christians sin?
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his
blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past,
through the forbearance of God;
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal
must put on immortality.
1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man:
but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are
able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be
able to bear it.
1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth
in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Keith
.
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| User: "Joel M. Eichen D.D.S." |
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| Title: Re: Do Christians Sin...2 |
20 Aug 2003 06:04:38 AM |
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Got to define it foist!
On Wed, 20 Aug 2003 01:40:38 -0500, "Keith" <nowhere@nowhere.com>
wrote:
Do Christians sin?
Rom 3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his
blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past,
through the forbearance of God;
1Co 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal
must put on immortality.
1Co 10:13 There hath no temptation taken you but such as is common to man:
but God is faithful, who will not suffer you to be tempted above that ye are
able; but will with the temptation also make a way to escape, that ye may be
able to bear it.
1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth
in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
Keith
--
Joel M. Eichen, .
Philadelphia PA
STANDARD DISCLAIMER applies:
<You fill it in>
.
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| User: "Midwinter" |
|
| Title: Re: Do Christians Sin...2 |
26 Jun 2003 06:13:10 PM |
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On 26 Jun 2003, Michael Christ held forth thus:
Yes...if you are a christian in name only.
No...if you are a Christian.
Does this mean that Jesus no longer needs the power to forgive? Are you
suggesting now that Christians are perfect beings, entirely free of sin?
--
Midwinter
.
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| User: "Dore" |
|
| Title: Re: Do Christians Sin...2 |
28 Jun 2003 08:40:53 PM |
|
|
"Midwinter" <midw688@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bdfum5$ol8$2@sparta.btinternet.com...
Does this mean that Jesus no longer needs the power to forgive? Are you
suggesting now that Christians are perfect beings, entirely free of sin?
NO, what it means is that once you believe in Christ, that you DO all that
He said, seek the righteousness of God and find out what God considers sin
and then repenting of all sin and not sinning again. And when you OBEY all
of the words out of the mouth of God and LIVE them by experiencing them
daily in your life, you
then learn of God and KNOW HIM that you love Him, even more than life
itself, and thus will NOT sin because it is a abhorrent to you as it is to
God. So, you seek and attain perfection IN GOD, entirely free of sin, above
ALL else. If you make your faith a part time thing, AFTER you have sought
all of the things of this earth, you cannot achieve being ONE with Christ,
nor perfection, but stay a servant of sin, which does NOT abide with the
Son.
John 8:34-35
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth
sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth
ever.
(KJV)
I Jn 3:2-10
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we
shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for
we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is
pure.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the
transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no
sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him,
neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is
righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the
beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might
destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in
him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil:
whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not
his brother.
(KJV)
Matt 5:48
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is
perfect.
(KJV)
Matt 7:21-23
21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the
kingdom of heaven; but he that DOETH the will of my Father which is in
heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in
thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many
wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye
that work INIQUITY (SIN).
(KJV)
Luke 6:46-49
46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and DO not the things which I say?
47 Whosoever cometh to me, and heareth my sayings, and DOETH them, I will
shew you to whom he is like:
48 He is like a man which built an house, and digged deep, and laid the
foundation on a rock: and when the flood arose, the stream beat vehemently
upon that house, and could not shake it: for it was founded upon a rock.
49 But he that heareth, and doeth not, is like a man that without a
foundation built an house upon the earth; against which the stream did beat
vehemently, and immediately it fell; and the ruin of that house was great.
(KJV)
Luke 13:3
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
(KJV)
1 Cor 1:8
8 Who shall also confirm you unto the end, that ye may be blameless in the
day of our Lord Jesus Christ.
(KJV)
2 Pet 3:14
14 Wherefore, beloved, seeing that ye look for such things, be diligent that
ye may be found of him in peace, without spot, and blameless.
(KJV)
--
Dore
"Honor, Obey, Worship and Respect the Father, for then the Son will be
pleased"
Ps 2:12
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his
wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in
him.
(KJV)
http://dorewilliamson.com/
"Midwinter" <midw688@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bdfum5$ol8$2@sparta.btinternet.com...
On 26 Jun 2003, Michael Christ held forth thus:
Yes...if you are a christian in name only.
No...if you are a Christian.
Does this mean that Jesus no longer needs the power to forgive? Are you
suggesting now that Christians are perfect beings, entirely free of sin?
--
Midwinter
.
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| User: "Rick Foster" |
|
| Title: Re: Do Christians Sin...2 |
01 Jul 2003 12:20:43 AM |
|
|
Midwinter wrote:
On 29 Jun 2003, Dore held forth thus:
NO, what it means is that once you believe in Christ, that you DO all
that He said, seek the righteousness of God and find out what God
considers sin and then repenting of all sin and not sinning again. And
when you OBEY all of the words out of the mouth of God and LIVE them
by experiencing them daily in your life, you
then learn of God and KNOW HIM that you love Him, even more than life
itself, and thus will NOT sin because it is a abhorrent to you as it
is to God. So, you seek and attain perfection IN GOD, entirely free of
sin, above ALL else. If you make your faith a part time thing, AFTER
you have sought all of the things of this earth, you cannot achieve
being ONE with Christ, nor perfection, but stay a servant of sin,
which does NOT abide with the Son.
You see, Michael? How simple it could have been for you to do as Dore
has done, and simply provide an answer. How you would have gone up in my
estimation had you been able to put your grudges aside and at least act
like the Christ you claim to be. But you could not do so, because you
are not what you think you are.
Thank you, Dore. While I do not follow Christ, I appreciate your taking
the time to answer that question since it did seem to me to be a fairly
important one for the consideration of those who do.
--
Midwinter
All followers of Christ, are born again sons of God, not Christ, nor truly
"Christlike", as that is an impossiblility. We are forgiven, and have
strength to resist sin.
Why does everyone try to make it so complicated, and long winded?
.
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| User: "Dore" |
|
| Title: Re: Do Christians Sin...2 |
02 Jul 2003 05:14:04 PM |
|
|
"Rick Foster" <spoker@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:3F0119D7.3D0204B9@concentric.net...
All followers of Christ, are born again sons of God, not Christ, nor truly
"Christlike", as that is an impossiblility.
Well, to be a TRUE FOLLOWER of Christ, you have to BE LIKE HIM, and DO as He
did, walk as He walked, believe and He believed. That's what following Him
means. And it is NOT an impossibility to be Christlike, in fact, it was
written that you MUST be to be considered a son of God. NOTHING is
impossible with God, thus those who sincerely serve and follow Christ, can
achieve perfection, as it was commanded.
I Jn 3:2-3
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we
shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for
we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is
pure.
(KJV)
Matt 5:48
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is
perfect.
(KJV)
you wrote.
We are forgiven, and have
strength to resist sin.
You are ONLY forgiven of the sins that you have repented of and repentance
means to NOT commit those sins again. For anyone who continues in sin is a
servant of sin and does NOT abide with Christ.
John 8:34-35
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth
sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth
ever.
(KJV)
Luke 13:3
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
(KJV)
Rev 2:5
5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the
first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy
candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
(KJV)
I Jn 3:6-10
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him,
neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is
righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the
beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might
destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in
him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil:
whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not
his brother.
(KJV)
you wrote.
Why does everyone try to make it so complicated, and long winded?
Because it IS complicated and takes commitment, discipline and self-control
to perfect yourself and stop sinning, and your belief that you are
automatically forgiven of all sin, while still sinning, is a LIE.
--
Dore
"Honor, Obey, Worship and Respect the Father, for then the Son will be
pleased"
Ps 2:12
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his
wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in
him.
(KJV)
http://dorewilliamson.com/
"Rick Foster" <spoker@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:3F0119D7.3D0204B9@concentric.net...
Midwinter wrote:
On 29 Jun 2003, Dore held forth thus:
NO, what it means is that once you believe in Christ, that you DO all
that He said, seek the righteousness of God and find out what God
considers sin and then repenting of all sin and not sinning again. And
when you OBEY all of the words out of the mouth of God and LIVE them
by experiencing them daily in your life, you
then learn of God and KNOW HIM that you love Him, even more than life
itself, and thus will NOT sin because it is a abhorrent to you as it
is to God. So, you seek and attain perfection IN GOD, entirely free of
sin, above ALL else. If you make your faith a part time thing, AFTER
you have sought all of the things of this earth, you cannot achieve
being ONE with Christ, nor perfection, but stay a servant of sin,
which does NOT abide with the Son.
You see, Michael? How simple it could have been for you to do as Dore
has done, and simply provide an answer. How you would have gone up in
my
estimation had you been able to put your grudges aside and at least act
like the Christ you claim to be. But you could not do so, because you
are not what you think you are.
Thank you, Dore. While I do not follow Christ, I appreciate your taking
the time to answer that question since it did seem to me to be a fairly
important one for the consideration of those who do.
--
Midwinter
All followers of Christ, are born again sons of God, not Christ, nor truly
"Christlike", as that is an impossiblility. We are forgiven, and have
strength to resist sin.
Why does everyone try to make it so complicated, and long winded?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Rick Foster" |
|
| Title: Re: Do Christians Sin...2 |
02 Jul 2003 06:56:12 PM |
|
|
Dore wrote:
"Rick Foster" <spoker@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:3F0119D7.3D0204B9@concentric.net...
All followers of Christ, are born again sons of God, not Christ, nor truly
"Christlike", as that is an impossiblility.
Well, to be a TRUE FOLLOWER of Christ, you have to BE LIKE HIM, and DO as He
did, walk as He walked, believe and He believed. That's what following Him
means. And it is NOT an impossibility to be Christlike, in fact, it was
written that you MUST be to be considered a son of God. NOTHING is
impossible with God, thus those who sincerely serve and follow Christ, can
achieve perfection, as it was commanded.
But each of us cannot *be* Christ, though it appears there are many here who
feel they are, in fact, the Christ, reincarnated in our time. There are too
many, for each to be true. We should always stive to be "Christlike", but I
don't feel that followers should be disheartened, should they slip, as God will
be forgiving, through the Son's love.
I Jn 3:2-3
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we
shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for
we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is
pure.
(KJV)
Matt 5:48
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is
perfect.
(KJV)
you wrote.
We are forgiven, and have
strength to resist sin.
You are ONLY forgiven of the sins that you have repented of and repentance
means to NOT commit those sins again. For anyone who continues in sin is a
servant of sin and does NOT abide with Christ.
I agree with you there. The world, though, keeps throwing sin at us at such a
rapid pace, that it is difficult for some not to stray. The Shepard will round
up the the strays, though, as it has been known from the beginning, who will be
spared the terrible times to come.
John 8:34-35
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth
sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth
ever.
(KJV)
Luke 13:3
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
(KJV)
Rev 2:5
5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the
first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy
candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
(KJV)
I Jn 3:6-10
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him,
neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is
righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the
beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might
destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in
him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil:
whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not
his brother.
(KJV)
you wrote.
Why does everyone try to make it so complicated, and long winded?
Because it IS complicated and takes commitment, discipline and self-control
to perfect yourself and stop sinning, and your belief that you are
automatically forgiven of all sin, while still sinning, is a LIE.
I'm sorry, but I don't see an "automatic" forgiveness in my statements. I agree
you must repent, commit those sins no more, but still, some go to great degrees,
(different translations of the Bible, which I believe actually makes it easier
to sin, etc) to make a point, which should be, as your last statement above,
short, sweet, and abundantly to the point. I don't really think we have a
problem with each other.
--
Dore
"Honor, Obey, Worship and Respect the Father, for then the Son will be
pleased"
Ps 2:12
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his
wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in
him.
(KJV)
http://dorewilliamson.com/
"Rick Foster" <spoker@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:3F0119D7.3D0204B9@concentric.net...
Midwinter wrote:
On 29 Jun 2003, Dore held forth thus:
NO, what it means is that once you believe in Christ, that you DO all
that He said, seek the righteousness of God and find out what God
considers sin and then repenting of all sin and not sinning again. And
when you OBEY all of the words out of the mouth of God and LIVE them
by experiencing them daily in your life, you
then learn of God and KNOW HIM that you love Him, even more than life
itself, and thus will NOT sin because it is a abhorrent to you as it
is to God. So, you seek and attain perfection IN GOD, entirely free of
sin, above ALL else. If you make your faith a part time thing, AFTER
you have sought all of the things of this earth, you cannot achieve
being ONE with Christ, nor perfection, but stay a servant of sin,
which does NOT abide with the Son.
You see, Michael? How simple it could have been for you to do as Dore
has done, and simply provide an answer. How you would have gone up in
my
estimation had you been able to put your grudges aside and at least act
like the Christ you claim to be. But you could not do so, because you
are not what you think you are.
Thank you, Dore. While I do not follow Christ, I appreciate your taking
the time to answer that question since it did seem to me to be a fairly
important one for the consideration of those who do.
--
Midwinter
All followers of Christ, are born again sons of God, not Christ, nor truly
"Christlike", as that is an impossiblility. We are forgiven, and have
strength to resist sin.
Why does everyone try to make it so complicated, and long winded?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dore" |
|
| Title: Re: Do Christians Sin...2 |
02 Jul 2003 08:39:00 PM |
|
|
"Rick Foster" <spoker@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:3F0370C3.D9EBF93@concentric.net...
But each of us cannot *be* Christ, though it appears there are many here
who
feel they are, in fact, the Christ, reincarnated in our time. There are
too
many, for each to be true. We should always stive to be "Christlike", but
I
don't feel that followers should be disheartened, should they slip, as God
will
be forgiving, through the Son's love.
YOU didn't say "BE" Christ, YOU said CHRISTLIKE as you claim it is an
impossibility.
All followers of Christ, are born again sons of God, not Christ, nor
truly
"Christlike", as that is an impossibility. We are forgiven, and have
strength to resist sin.
And NO WHERE do the scriptures state to "STRIVE". It says "BE". The problem
with Christians is they always have an excuse to continue in sin, and a
careless attitude of, " oh well, I slipped again, It's ok, I will be
forgiven". They don't WANT to actually DO what is required, they want to do
what they want to do and still be forgiven constantly and continuously as
though it really doesn't matter. What they should be doing is when they sin,
actually FEEL absolutely horrible and regret their sins AGAINST GOD, more
than anything else, even in tears begging forgiveness and regretting
tremendously, with a heavy heart, that you disappointed and failed the ONE
who you are supposed to LOVE more than your own life. Their attitude is so
complacent and so self-serving that they only want God to love them and
constantly forgive them, when they really don't strive or try at all, and
they never show how real and important it is to show GOD how much they LOVE
HIM. Have YOU made it the most important thing in YOUR life to stop sinning
and walk according to ALL of His ways with ALL of your heart, mind, soul and
STRENGTH ABOVE all else? Placing more importance in seeking His
righteousness and truths, KNOWING Him, personally, intimately, honestly and
sincerely BEFORE your job, career, family, friends, possessions, and
desires? No, I bet you seek MONEY and serve your JOB, family, possessions,
home etc FIRST and then just EXPECT GOD to accept and tolerate it, making
excuses of how you can only strive to be Christlike, and you always fail and
sin, and can't help it, when you never strive at all. Be honest with
yourself for a change.
--
Dore
"Honor, Obey, Worship and Respect the Father, for then the Son will be
pleased"
Ps 2:12
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his
wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in
him.
(KJV)
http://dorewilliamson.com/
"Rick Foster" <spoker@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:3F0370C3.D9EBF93@concentric.net...
Dore wrote:
"Rick Foster" <spoker@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:3F0119D7.3D0204B9@concentric.net...
All followers of Christ, are born again sons of God, not Christ, nor
truly
"Christlike", as that is an impossiblility.
Well, to be a TRUE FOLLOWER of Christ, you have to BE LIKE HIM, and DO
as He
did, walk as He walked, believe and He believed. That's what following
Him
means. And it is NOT an impossibility to be Christlike, in fact, it was
written that you MUST be to be considered a son of God. NOTHING is
impossible with God, thus those who sincerely serve and follow Christ,
can
achieve perfection, as it was commanded.
But each of us cannot *be* Christ, though it appears there are many here
who
feel they are, in fact, the Christ, reincarnated in our time. There are
too
many, for each to be true. We should always stive to be "Christlike", but
I
don't feel that followers should be disheartened, should they slip, as God
will
be forgiving, through the Son's love.
I Jn 3:2-3
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what
we
shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him;
for
we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he
is
pure.
(KJV)
Matt 5:48
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is
perfect.
(KJV)
you wrote.
We are forgiven, and have
strength to resist sin.
You are ONLY forgiven of the sins that you have repented of and
repentance
means to NOT commit those sins again. For anyone who continues in sin is
a
servant of sin and does NOT abide with Christ.
I agree with you there. The world, though, keeps throwing sin at us at
such a
rapid pace, that it is difficult for some not to stray. The Shepard will
round
up the the strays, though, as it has been known from the beginning, who
will be
spared the terrible times to come.
John 8:34-35
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever
committeth
sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son
abideth
ever.
(KJV)
Luke 13:3
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
(KJV)
Rev 2:5
5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the
first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy
candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
(KJV)
I Jn 3:6-10
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen
him,
neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness
is
righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the
beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might
destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth
in
him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the
devil:
whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth
not
his brother.
(KJV)
you wrote.
Why does everyone try to make it so complicated, and long winded?
Because it IS complicated and takes commitment, discipline and
self-control
to perfect yourself and stop sinning, and your belief that you are
automatically forgiven of all sin, while still sinning, is a LIE.
I'm sorry, but I don't see an "automatic" forgiveness in my statements. I
agree
you must repent, commit those sins no more, but still, some go to great
degrees,
(different translations of the Bible, which I believe actually makes it
easier
to sin, etc) to make a point, which should be, as your last statement
above,
short, sweet, and abundantly to the point. I don't really think we have a
problem with each other.
--
Dore
"Honor, Obey, Worship and Respect the Father, for then the Son will be
pleased"
Ps 2:12
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his
wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust
in
him.
(KJV)
http://dorewilliamson.com/
"Rick Foster" <spoker@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:3F0119D7.3D0204B9@concentric.net...
Midwinter wrote:
On 29 Jun 2003, Dore held forth thus:
NO, what it means is that once you believe in Christ, that you DO
all
that He said, seek the righteousness of God and find out what God
considers sin and then repenting of all sin and not sinning again.
And
when you OBEY all of the words out of the mouth of God and LIVE
them
by experiencing them daily in your life, you
then learn of God and KNOW HIM that you love Him, even more than
life
itself, and thus will NOT sin because it is a abhorrent to you as
it
is to God. So, you seek and attain perfection IN GOD, entirely
free of
sin, above ALL else. If you make your faith a part time thing,
AFTER
you have sought all of the things of this earth, you cannot
achieve
being ONE with Christ, nor perfection, but stay a servant of sin,
which does NOT abide with the Son.
You see, Michael? How simple it could have been for you to do as
Dore
has done, and simply provide an answer. How you would have gone up
in
my
estimation had you been able to put your grudges aside and at least
act
like the Christ you claim to be. But you could not do so, because
you
are not what you think you are.
Thank you, Dore. While I do not follow Christ, I appreciate your
taking
the time to answer that question since it did seem to me to be a
fairly
important one for the consideration of those who do.
--
Midwinter
All followers of Christ, are born again sons of God, not Christ, nor
truly
"Christlike", as that is an impossiblility. We are forgiven, and have
strength to resist sin.
Why does everyone try to make it so complicated, and long winded?
.
|
|
|
| User: "Rick Foster" |
|
| Title: Re: Do Christians Sin...2 |
03 Jul 2003 03:23:01 PM |
|
|
Dore wrote:
"Rick Foster" <spoker@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:3F0370C3.D9EBF93@concentric.net...
But each of us cannot *be* Christ, though it appears there are many here
who
feel they are, in fact, the Christ, reincarnated in our time. There are
too
many, for each to be true. We should always stive to be "Christlike", but
I
don't feel that followers should be disheartened, should they slip, as God
will
be forgiving, through the Son's love.
YOU didn't say "BE" Christ, YOU said CHRISTLIKE as you claim it is an
impossibility.
All followers of Christ, are born again sons of God, not Christ, nor
truly
"Christlike", as that is an impossibility. We are forgiven, and have
strength to resist sin.
TRULY Christlike, was what I said. Nobody can be truly Christlike, except
Christ himself. Those who feel they are, are deluding themselves.
If it was true, that we could be Christlike, why would Jesus have had to die for
our sins? We should all be responsible for our own sins, die for them, and not
have to rely on the belief that Jesus can, and will, be there, for our
salvation.
And NO WHERE do the scriptures state to "STRIVE". It says "BE". The problem
with Christians is they always have an excuse to continue in sin, and a
careless attitude of, " oh well, I slipped again, It's ok, I will be
forgiven".
I didn't say that. Once you sin, and realize it is against the will of God, you
should be sorry, repent, and not commit that sin again. I never meant that
anyone is forgiven the same sin over and over again.
They don't WANT to actually DO what is required, they want to do
what they want to do and still be forgiven constantly and continuously as
though it really doesn't matter. What they should be doing is when they sin,
actually FEEL absolutely horrible and regret their sins AGAINST GOD, more
than anything else, even in tears begging forgiveness and regretting
tremendously, with a heavy heart, that you disappointed and failed the ONE
who you are supposed to LOVE more than your own life. Their attitude is so
complacent and so self-serving that they only want God to love them and
constantly forgive them, when they really don't strive or try at all, and
they never show how real and important it is to show GOD how much they LOVE
HIM. Have YOU made it the most important thing in YOUR life to stop sinning
and walk according to ALL of His ways with ALL of your heart, mind, soul and
STRENGTH ABOVE all else? Placing more importance in seeking His
righteousness and truths, KNOWING Him, personally, intimately, honestly and
sincerely BEFORE your job, career, family, friends, possessions, and
desires?
I had spent more than a year, at the bottom of a mountain, that allowed no radio
or tv signals to reach my house. I studied the Bible, and allowed it to speak
to me, in a way I had never done before. I had been saved for over 10 years, at
that point, but never really understood what I needed to. Hours upon hours, and
days upon days, of duitiful study and prayer, opened up His word to me, allowing
me to glean much more than many I know. I am nowhere near perfect, but do try
to better myself all the time.
No, I bet you seek MONEY and serve your JOB, family, possessions,
home etc FIRST and then just EXPECT GOD to accept and tolerate it, making
excuses of how you can only strive to be Christlike, and you always fail and
sin, and can't help it, when you never strive at all. Be honest with
yourself for a change.
I can be. I live on disability, I am happy with a 1/1 apartment, and a 1983
automobile. I don't worry about money in the least, as my needs are always
met. That is better than some can say. I have taken up the sword for Christ,
and in no way feel complacent regarding my beliefs.
Listen, I have been in a wheelchair since age 5, (never able to walk) supposed
to be dead by age 7, yet God has seen reason for me to outlive the doctors and
their death sentence, 10 times over, since being put in the chair. I love life,
and know there is a purpose God has for me here.
I realize that you are supposed to be the Second Coming, as is written by
others, and yourself, on your website. Why didn't you know that I care more
about the next world, than anything about this one?
Look deep inside, Dore, before you make accusations against the ones who love
God the most.
--
Dore
"Honor, Obey, Worship and Respect the Father, for then the Son will be
pleased"
Ps 2:12
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his
wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in
him.
(KJV)
http://dorewilliamson.com/
"Rick Foster" <spoker@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:3F0370C3.D9EBF93@concentric.net...
Dore wrote:
"Rick Foster" <spoker@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:3F0119D7.3D0204B9@concentric.net...
All followers of Christ, are born again sons of God, not Christ, nor
truly
"Christlike", as that is an impossiblility.
Well, to be a TRUE FOLLOWER of Christ, you have to BE LIKE HIM, and DO
as He
did, walk as He walked, believe and He believed. That's what following
Him
means. And it is NOT an impossibility to be Christlike, in fact, it was
written that you MUST be to be considered a son of God. NOTHING is
impossible with God, thus those who sincerely serve and follow Christ,
can
achieve perfection, as it was commanded.
But each of us cannot *be* Christ, though it appears there are many here
who
feel they are, in fact, the Christ, reincarnated in our time. There are
too
many, for each to be true. We should always stive to be "Christlike", but
I
don't feel that followers should be disheartened, should they slip, as God
will
be forgiving, through the Son's love.
I Jn 3:2-3
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what
we
shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him;
for
we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he
is
pure.
(KJV)
Matt 5:48
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is
perfect.
(KJV)
you wrote.
We are forgiven, and have
strength to resist sin.
You are ONLY forgiven of the sins that you have repented of and
repentance
means to NOT commit those sins again. For anyone who continues in sin is
a
servant of sin and does NOT abide with Christ.
I agree with you there. The world, though, keeps throwing sin at us at
such a
rapid pace, that it is difficult for some not to stray. The Shepard will
round
up the the strays, though, as it has been known from the beginning, who
will be
spared the terrible times to come.
John 8:34-35
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever
committeth
sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son
abideth
ever.
(KJV)
Luke 13:3
3 I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish.
(KJV)
Rev 2:5
5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the
first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy
candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
(KJV)
I Jn 3:6-10
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen
him,
neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness
is
righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the
beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might
destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth
in
him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the
devil:
whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth
not
his brother.
(KJV)
you wrote.
Why does everyone try to make it so complicated, and long winded?
Because it IS complicated and takes commitment, discipline and
self-control
to perfect yourself and stop sinning, and your belief that you are
automatically forgiven of all sin, while still sinning, is a LIE.
I'm sorry, but I don't see an "automatic" forgiveness in my statements. I
agree
you must repent, commit those sins no more, but still, some go to great
degrees,
(different translations of the Bible, which I believe actually makes it
easier
to sin, etc) to make a point, which should be, as your last statement
above,
short, sweet, and abundantly to the point. I don't really think we have a
problem with each other.
--
Dore
"Honor, Obey, Worship and Respect the Father, for then the Son will be
pleased"
Ps 2:12
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his
wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust
in
him.
(KJV)
http://dorewilliamson.com/
"Rick Foster" <spoker@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:3F0119D7.3D0204B9@concentric.net...
Midwinter wrote:
On 29 Jun 2003, Dore held forth thus:
NO, what it means is that once you believe in Christ, that you DO
all
that He said, seek the righteousness of God and find out what God
considers sin and then repenting of all sin and not sinning again.
And
when you OBEY all of the words out of the mouth of God and LIVE
them
by experiencing them daily in your life, you
then learn of God and KNOW HIM that you love Him, even more than
life
itself, and thus will NOT sin because it is a abhorrent to you as
it
is to God. So, you seek and attain perfection IN GOD, entirely
free of
sin, above ALL else. If you make your faith a part time thing,
AFTER
you have sought all of the things of this earth, you cannot
achieve
being ONE with Christ, nor perfection, but stay a servant of sin,
which does NOT abide with the Son.
You see, Michael? How simple it could have been for you to do as
Dore
has done, and simply provide an answer. How you would have gone up
in
my
estimation had you been able to put your grudges aside and at least
act
like the Christ you claim to be. But you could not do so, because
you
are not what you think you are.
Thank you, Dore. While I do not follow Christ, I appreciate your
taking
the time to answer that question since it did seem to me to be a
fairly
important one for the consideration of those who do.
--
Midwinter
All followers of Christ, are born again sons of God, not Christ, nor
truly
"Christlike", as that is an impossiblility. We are forgiven, and have
strength to resist sin.
Why does everyone try to make it so complicated, and long winded?
.
|
|
|
| User: "" |
|
| Title: Re: Do Christians Sin...2 |
04 Jul 2003 09:46:46 PM |
|
|
On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 01:19:24 GMT, "Dore" <spiritfire@frontiernet.net>
wrote:
"Rick Foster" <spoker@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:3F04904A.4ECA93@concentric.net...
TRULY Christlike, was what I said. Nobody can be truly Christlike, except
Christ himself. Those who feel they are, are deluding themselves.
Of course anyone who CHOOSES to walk as He walk, discipline themselves into
DOING the will of God, commit themselves to laying down their whole lives
for that purpose alone, which is what you are ALL supposed to do, can.
you wrote.
If it was true, that we could be Christlike, why would Jesus have had to
die for
our sins? We should all be responsible for our own sins, die for them,
and not
have to rely on the belief that Jesus can, and will, be there, for our
salvation.
You have every word of Christ to learn, DO and LIVE, AFTER 2000 years so you
are to prepare yourselves to BE perfect as the Father in heaven is perfect
and DO everything that Christ said, commanded, demanded and required because
it is all written down nicely for you to abide in. Christ dies to give you
OPPORTUNITY to be forgiven of sins, if you REPENT. YOU are responsible for
your sins, and WILL die in them, if you are still continuing in them and
refuse to repent, which means STOP SINNING.
Oh Oh look our Dore, claiming to be Christ returned in a female body,
is a sin. You better repent and give up this little game of yours.
For those who sin are a servant
of sin and do NOT abide with the Son. Salvation is given to those who
believe, and repent of sins and DO the will of the Father.
John 8:34-35
34 Jesus answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth
sin is the servant of sin.
35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the Son abideth
ever.
(KJV)
I Jn 3:2-10
2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we
shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for
we shall see him as he is.
3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is
pure.
4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the
transgression of the law.
5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no
sin.
6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him,
neither known him.
7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is
righteous, even as he is righteous.
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the
beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might
destroy the works of the devil.
9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in
him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil:
whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not
his brother.
(KJV)
Matt 5:48
48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is
perfect.
(KJV)
The wages of sin is STILL death for those who REFUSE to repent and DO the
will of the Father. That is the problem with Christianity today, they are
really only part time Christians, seeking, doing and serving all of the
desires and things in this life and placing the most important thing as
seeking the truths and DOING all that is commanded, demanded and required,
self-discipline, denying oneself, picking up the cross and purifying
yourself into the ways of God FIRST and FOREMOST. In fact, lay down your
whole life and all that it contains right now and begin to actually FOLLOW
CHRIST, with ALL of your STRENGTH, ALL of your heart, ALL of your mind, and
ALL of your soul, and with your WHOLE life and with all efforts until you
have achieved the perfection of God, if you want to be saved for there is
NOTHING more important in this life than doing exactly that.
.
|
|
|
|
| User: "Bored With The Bitch" |
|
| Title: Re: Do Christians Sin...2 |
05 Jul 2003 07:39:37 AM |
|
|
On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 01:19:24 GMT, "Dore" <spiritfire@frontiernet.net> wrote:
"Rick Foster" <spoker@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:3F04904A.4ECA93@concentric.net...
TRULY Christlike, was what I said. Nobody can be truly Christlike, except
Christ himself. Those who feel they are, are deluding themselves.
Of course anyone who CHOOSES to walk as He walk, discipline themselves into
DOING the will of God, commit themselves to laying down their whole lives
for that purpose alone, which is what you are ALL supposed to do, can.
you wrote.
If it was true, that we could be Christlike, why would Jesus have had to
die for
our sins? We should all be responsible for our own sins, die for them,
and not
have to rely on the belief that Jesus can, and will, be there, for our
salvation.
You have every word of Christ to learn, DO and LIVE, AFTER 2000 years so you
are to prepare yourselves to BE perfect as the Father in heaven is perfect
and DO everything that Christ said, commanded, demanded and required because
it is all written down nicely for you to abide in. Christ dies to give you
OPPORTUNITY to be forgiven of sins, if you REPENT. YOU are responsible for
your sins, and WILL die in them, if you are still continuing in them and
refuse to repent, which means STOP SINNING. For those who sin are a servant
of sin and do NOT abide with the Son. Salvation is given to those who
believe, and repent of sins and DO the will of the Father.
OK Dore, since you are fond of pointing out everybody elses shortcomings, why
don't you give us all a step-by-step, how-to set of instructions on how to
overcome those shortcomings and get right with god? It seems, that as god's
anointed ringpiece, you could do this.
Erikc (alt.atheist #002) | "An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil."
BAAWA Knight | "The Truth against the World."
ICQ <disabled> | -- Bardic Motto
=====
Abstinence is the most un-natural of the sexual perversions.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dore" |
|
| Title: Re: Do Christians Sin...2 |
08 Jul 2003 06:56:53 PM |
|
|
"Bored With The *****" <firewevr@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:tqgdgvgmtq6t85oh7vhqippjdl2acspih1@4ax.com...
OK Dore, since you are fond of pointing out everybody elses shortcomings,
why
don't you give us all a step-by-step, how-to set of instructions on how to
overcome those shortcomings and get right with god? It seems, that as
god's
anointed ringpiece, you could do this.
It's ALL written in the Gospels, READ IT, then DO what it says.
--
Dore
"Honor, Obey, Worship and Respect the Father, for then the Son will be
pleased"
Ps 2:12
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his
wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in
him.
(KJV)
http://dorewilliamson.com/
"Bored With The *****" <firewevr@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:tqgdgvgmtq6t85oh7vhqippjdl2acspih1@4ax.com...
On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 01:19:24 GMT, "Dore" <spiritfire@frontiernet.net>
wrote:
"Rick Foster" <spoker@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:3F04904A.4ECA93@concentric.net...
TRULY Christlike, was what I said. Nobody can be truly Christlike,
except
Christ himself. Those who feel they are, are deluding themselves.
Of course anyone who CHOOSES to walk as He walk, discipline themselves
into
DOING the will of God, commit themselves to laying down their whole lives
for that purpose alone, which is what you are ALL supposed to do, can.
you wrote.
If it was true, that we could be Christlike, why would Jesus have had
to
die for
our sins? We should all be responsible for our own sins, die for them,
and not
have to rely on the belief that Jesus can, and will, be there, for our
salvation.
You have every word of Christ to learn, DO and LIVE, AFTER 2000 years so
you
are to prepare yourselves to BE perfect as the Father in heaven is
perfect
and DO everything that Christ said, commanded, demanded and required
because
it is all written down nicely for you to abide in. Christ dies to give
you
OPPORTUNITY to be forgiven of sins, if you REPENT. YOU are responsible
for
your sins, and WILL die in them, if you are still continuing in them and
refuse to repent, which means STOP SINNING. For those who sin are a
servant
of sin and do NOT abide with the Son. Salvation is given to those who
believe, and repent of sins and DO the will of the Father.
OK Dore, since you are fond of pointing out everybody elses shortcomings,
why
don't you give us all a step-by-step, how-to set of instructions on how to
overcome those shortcomings and get right with god? It seems, that as
god's
anointed ringpiece, you could do this.
Erikc (alt.atheist #002) | "An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil."
BAAWA Knight | "The Truth against the World."
ICQ <disabled> | -- Bardic Motto
=====
Abstinence is the most un-natural of the sexual perversions.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bored With The Bitch" |
|
| Title: Re: Do Christians Sin...2 |
10 Jul 2003 05:07:47 PM |
|
|
On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 23:56:53 GMT, "Dore" <spiritfire@frontiernet.net> wrote:
"Bored With The *****" <firewevr@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:tqgdgvgmtq6t85oh7vhqippjdl2acspih1@4ax.com...
OK Dore, since you are fond of pointing out everybody elses shortcomings,
why
don't you give us all a step-by-step, how-to set of instructions on how to
overcome those shortcomings and get right with god? It seems, that as
god's
anointed ringpiece, you could do this.
It's ALL written in the Gospels, READ IT, then DO what it says.
Give it up Dore, you can't explain it any better than I can. Some
representative of god you are.
Erikc (alt.atheist #002) | "An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil."
BAAWA Knight | "The Truth against the World."
ICQ <disabled> | -- Bardic Motto
=====
Abstinence is the most un-natural of the sexual perversions.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dore" |
|
| Title: Re: Do Christians Sin...2 |
14 Jul 2003 07:50:35 PM |
|
|
"Bored With The *****" <firewevr@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:asorgvc4u5mgepbn83igm2rlh0qu92bip1@4ax.com...
Give it up Dore, you can't explain it any better than I can. Some
representative of god you are.
I at least read it and understand it, but YOU on the other hand..
John 1:5
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
(KJV)
John 3:18-21
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is
condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only
begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men
loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the
light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made
manifest, that they are wrought in God.
(KJV)
--
Dore
"Honor, Obey, Worship and Respect the Father, for then the Son will be
pleased"
Ps 2:12
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his
wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in
him.
(KJV)
http://dorewilliamson.com/
"Bored With The *****" <firewevr@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:asorgvc4u5mgepbn83igm2rlh0qu92bip1@4ax.com...
On Tue, 08 Jul 2003 23:56:53 GMT, "Dore" <spiritfire@frontiernet.net>
wrote:
"Bored With The *****" <firewevr@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:tqgdgvgmtq6t85oh7vhqippjdl2acspih1@4ax.com...
OK Dore, since you are fond of pointing out everybody elses
shortcomings,
why
don't you give us all a step-by-step, how-to set of instructions on how
to
overcome those shortcomings and get right with god? It seems, that as
god's
anointed ringpiece, you could do this.
It's ALL written in the Gospels, READ IT, then DO what it says.
Give it up Dore, you can't explain it any better than I can. Some
representative of god you are.
Erikc (alt.atheist #002) | "An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil."
BAAWA Knight | "The Truth against the World."
ICQ <disabled> | -- Bardic Motto
=====
Abstinence is the most un-natural of the sexual perversions.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Bored With The Bitch" |
|
| Title: Re: Do Christians Sin...2 |
15 Jul 2003 03:38:34 PM |
|
|
On Tue, 15 Jul 2003 00:50:35 GMT, "Dore" <spiritfire@frontiernet.net> wrote:
"Bored With The *****" <firewevr@airmail.net> wrote in message
news:asorgvc4u5mgepbn83igm2rlh0qu92bip1@4ax.com...
Give it up Dore, you can't explain it any better than I can. Some
representative of god you are.
I at least read it and understand it, but YOU on the other hand..
I don't have time for that *****. I'm too busy looking for a den of iniquity
to jump into.
Erikc (alt.atheist #002) | "An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil."
BAAWA Knight | "The Truth against the World."
ICQ <disabled> | -- Bardic Motto
=====
Abstinence is the most un-natural of the sexual perversions.
.
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
| User: "Rick Foster" |
|
| Title: Re: Do Christians Sin...2 |
05 Jul 2003 07:39:26 PM |
|
|
Bored With The ***** wrote:
On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 01:19:24 GMT, "Dore" <spiritfire@frontiernet.net> wrote:
"Rick Foster" <spoker@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:3F04904A.4ECA93@concentric.net...
TRULY Christlike, was what I said. Nobody can be truly Christlike, except
Christ himself. Those who feel they are, are deluding themselves.
Of course anyone who CHOOSES to walk as He walk, discipline themselves into
DOING the will of God, commit themselves to laying down their whole lives
for that purpose alone, which is what you are ALL supposed to do, can.
you wrote.
If it was true, that we could be Christlike, why would Jesus have had to
die for
our sins? We should all be responsible for our own sins, die for them,
and not
have to rely on the belief that Jesus can, and will, be there, for our
salvation.
You have every word of Christ to learn, DO and LIVE, AFTER 2000 years so you
are to prepare yourselves to BE perfect as the Father in heaven is perfect
and DO everything that Christ said, commanded, demanded and required because
it is all written down nicely for you to abide in. Christ dies to give you
OPPORTUNITY to be forgiven of sins, if you REPENT. YOU are responsible for
your sins, and WILL die in them, if you are still continuing in them and
refuse to repent, which means STOP SINNING. For those who sin are a servant
of sin and do NOT abide with the Son. Salvation is given to those who
believe, and repent of sins and DO the will of the Father.
OK Dore, since you are fond of pointing out everybody elses shortcomings, why
don't you give us all a step-by-step, how-to set of instructions on how to
overcome those shortcomings and get right with god? It seems, that as god's
anointed ringpiece, you could do this.
That's not going to happen. All the words she speaks could be so helpful, IF the
Word of God hadn't said in the Second Coming, *He* will return, not as a child,
but in all *His* glory, for all to see, and set foot where He rose to Heaven
from.
This statement alone causes a major problem for Dore, who probably has never
visited the Mt. of Olives, let alone decended to it, from Heaven.
Of course Jesus could be a liar, but looking at it from a religious point of
view, I really have my doubts about that.
The disturbing thing about Dore, and her situation is the way people speak about
her. In actuality, much is said about her, that, indeed, was said of Jesus, in
His day.
Are we to exxpect Him to look like a hippiesque, long hair, this time? Or more
like a businessman? Or maybe a magnificent spiritual being, beyond our present
knowledge comprehension?
I've seen too many "Omen" movies, I think....:)
Erikc (alt.atheist #002) | "An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil."
BAAWA Knight | "The Truth against the World."
ICQ <disabled> | -- Bardic Motto
=====
Abstinence is the most un-natural of the sexual perversions.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dore" |
|
| Title: Re: Do Christians Sin...2 |
08 Jul 2003 07:08:56 PM |
|
|
"Rick Foster" <spoker@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:3F076F5F.23C3F464@concentric.net...
That's not going to happen. All the words she speaks could be so helpful,
IF the
Word of God hadn't said in the Second Coming, *He* will return, not as a
child,
but in all *His* glory, for all to see, and set foot where He rose to
Heaven
from.
Apparently you haven't bothered reading, studying and discovering ALL of the
prophecies of the return, to understand all that occurs and the timeline of
events.
you wrote.
This statement alone causes a major problem for Dore, who probably has
never
visited the Mt. of Olives, let alone decended to it, from Heaven.
That prophetic scripture is to be interpreted symbolically and spiritually,
NOT literally with a carnal mind.
you wrote.
Are we to exxpect Him to look like a hippiesque, long hair, this time? Or
more
like a businessman? Or maybe a magnificent spiritual being, beyond our
present
knowledge comprehension?
None of the above. Why don't you BEGIN to actually seek, STUDY and consider
how I have returned for a change, instead of imagining it with your
lukewarm, shallow, superficial fantasies of Christian prophecy?
--
Dore
"Honor, Obey, Worship and Respect the Father, for then the Son will be
pleased"
Ps 2:12
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his
wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in
him.
(KJV)
http://dorewilliamson.com/
"Rick Foster" <spoker@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:3F076F5F.23C3F464@concentric.net...
Bored With The ***** wrote:
On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 01:19:24 GMT, "Dore" <spiritfire@frontiernet.net>
wrote:
"Rick Foster" <spoker@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:3F04904A.4ECA93@concentric.net...
TRULY Christlike, was what I said. Nobody can be truly Christlike,
except
Christ himself. Those who feel they are, are deluding themselves.
Of course anyone who CHOOSES to walk as He walk, discipline themselves
into
DOING the will of God, commit themselves to laying down their whole
lives
for that purpose alone, which is what you are ALL supposed to do, can.
you wrote.
If it was true, that we could be Christlike, why would Jesus have had
to
die for
our sins? We should all be responsible for our own sins, die for
them,
and not
have to rely on the belief that Jesus can, and will, be there, for
our
salvation.
You have every word of Christ to learn, DO and LIVE, AFTER 2000 years
so you
are to prepare yourselves to BE perfect as the Father in heaven is
perfect
and DO everything that Christ said, commanded, demanded and required
because
it is all written down nicely for you to abide in. Christ dies to give
you
OPPORTUNITY to be forgiven of sins, if you REPENT. YOU are responsible
for
your sins, and WILL die in them, if you are still continuing in them
and
refuse to repent, which means STOP SINNING. For those who sin are a
servant
of sin and do NOT abide with the Son. Salvation is given to those who
believe, and repent of sins and DO the will of the Father.
OK Dore, since you are fond of pointing out everybody elses
shortcomings, why
don't you give us all a step-by-step, how-to set of instructions on how
to
overcome those shortcomings and get right with god? It seems, that as
god's
anointed ringpiece, you could do this.
That's not going to happen. All the words she speaks could be so helpful,
IF the
Word of God hadn't said in the Second Coming, *He* will return, not as a
child,
but in all *His* glory, for all to see, and set foot where He rose to
Heaven
from.
This statement alone causes a major problem for Dore, who probably has
never
visited the Mt. of Olives, let alone decended to it, from Heaven.
Of course Jesus could be a liar, but looking at it from a religious point
of
view, I really have my doubts about that.
The disturbing thing about Dore, and her situation is the way people speak
about
her. In actuality, much is said about her, that, indeed, was said of
Jesus, in
His day.
Are we to exxpect Him to look like a hippiesque, long hair, this time? Or
more
like a businessman? Or maybe a magnificent spiritual being, beyond our
present
knowledge comprehension?
I've seen too many "Omen" movies, I think....:)
Erikc (alt.atheist #002) | "An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil."
BAAWA Knight | "The Truth against the World."
ICQ <disabled> | -- Bardic Motto
=====
Abstinence is the most un-natural of the sexual perversions.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Rick Foster" |
|
| Title: Re: Do Christians Sin...2 |
13 Jul 2003 01:06:33 AM |
|
|
Dore wrote:
"Rick Foster" <spoker@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:3F076F5F.23C3F464@concentric.net...
That's not going to happen. All the words she speaks could be so helpful,
IF the
Word of God hadn't said in the Second Coming, *He* will return, not as a
child,
but in all *His* glory, for all to see, and set foot where He rose to
Heaven
from.
Apparently you haven't bothered reading, studying and discovering ALL of the
prophecies of the return, to understand all that occurs and the timeline of
events.
The Bible has enlightened me. The return will be as prophecied.
you wrote.
This statement alone causes a major problem for Dore, who probably has
never
visited the Mt. of Olives, let alone decended to it, from Heaven.
That prophetic scripture is to be interpreted symbolically and spiritually,
NOT literally with a carnal mind.
I don't believe that. "Mankind" will need a literal *sign* of Christ's return.
While it may be true that you are doing the Word's work, I believe there is yet
another, "Decending from the Heavens" to come, before the end. If I am wrong,
may I be forgiven.
you wrote.
Are we to exxpect Him to look like a hippiesque, long hair, this time? Or
more
like a businessman? Or maybe a magnificent spiritual being, beyond our
present
knowledge comprehension?
None of the above. Why don't you BEGIN to actually seek, STUDY and consider
how I have returned for a change, instead of imagining it with your
lukewarm, shallow, superficial fantasies of Christian prophecy?
I have no superficial fantasies, Dore. I deal with what I have learned from the
Word of God.
One favor, please don't mix my responses to you with others, as there are some
things that may be said, I would never dream of putting on an ng.
--
Dore
"Honor, Obey, Worship and Respect the Father, for then the Son will be
pleased"
Ps 2:12
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his
wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in
him.
(KJV)
http://dorewilliamson.com/
"Rick Foster" <spoker@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:3F076F5F.23C3F464@concentric.net...
Bored With The ***** wrote:
On Sat, 05 Jul 2003 01:19:24 GMT, "Dore" <spiritfire@frontiernet.net>
wrote:
"Rick Foster" <spoker@concentric.net> wrote in message
news:3F04904A.4ECA93@concentric.net...
TRULY Christlike, was what I said. Nobody can be truly Christlike,
except
Christ himself. Those who feel they are, are deluding themselves.
Of course anyone who CHOOSES to walk as He walk, discipline themselves
into
DOING the will of God, commit themselves to laying down their whole
lives
for that purpose alone, which is what you are ALL supposed to do, can.
you wrote.
If it was true, that we could be Christlike, why would Jesus have had
to
die for
our sins? We should all be responsible for our own sins, die for
them,
and not
have to rely on the belief that Jesus can, and will, be there, for
our
salvation.
You have every word of Christ to learn, DO and LIVE, AFTER 2000 years
so you
are to prepare yourselves to BE perfect as the Father in heaven is
perfect
and DO everything that Christ said, commanded, demanded and required
because
it is all written down nicely for you to abide in. Christ dies to give
you
OPPORTUNITY to be forgiven of sins, if you REPENT. YOU are responsible
for
your sins, and WILL die in them, if you are still continuing in them
and
refuse to repent, which means STOP SINNING. For those who sin are a
servant
of sin and do NOT abide with the Son. Salvation is given to those who
believe, and repent of sins and DO the will of the Father.
OK Dore, since you are fond of pointing out everybody elses
shortcomings, why
don't you give us all a step-by-step, how-to set of instructions on how
to
overcome those shortcomings and get right with god? It seems, that as
god's
anointed ringpiece, you could do this.
That's not going to happen. All the words she speaks could be so helpful,
IF the
Word of God hadn't said in the Second Coming, *He* will return, not as a
child,
but in all *His* glory, for all to see, and set foot where He rose to
Heaven
from.
This statement alone causes a major problem for Dore, who probably has
never
visited the Mt. of Olives, let alone decended to it, from Heaven.
Of course Jesus could be a liar, but looking at it from a religious point
of
view, I really have my doubts about that.
The disturbing thing about Dore, and her situation is the way people speak
about
her. In actuality, much is said about her, that, indeed, was said of
Jesus, in
His day.
Are we to exxpect Him to look like a hippiesque, long hair, this time? Or
more
like a businessman? Or maybe a magnificent spiritual being, beyond our
present
knowledge comprehension?
I've seen too many "Omen" movies, I think....:)
Erikc (alt.atheist #002) | "An Fhirinne in aghaidh an tSaoil."
BAAWA Knight | "The Truth against the World."
ICQ <disabled> | -- Bardic Motto
=====
Abstinence is the most un-natural of the sexual perversions.
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dore" |
|
| Title: Re: Do Christians Sin...2 |
14 Jul 2003 07:33:44 PM |
|
|
<larry4355@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:2eh3hv8lkt7gdn81t67ijnpmrlkn8s877k@4ax.com...
See will be interesting to talk to, that is if you like
talking to someone that things they are the returned Jesus Christ in a
female body.
Speaking of returning in female form, consider this.
Gen 3:14-15
14 And the LORD God said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou
art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy
belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life:
15 And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed
and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
(KJV)
Since the enmity is between the devil and the woman, doesn't it make sense
that I have returned as a woman to OVERCOME and defeat the serpent, the
devil himself, as it was prophesied, completing what has started from the
beginning?
--
Dore
"Honor, Obey, Worship and Respect the Father, for then the Son will be
pleased"
Ps 2:12
12 Kiss the Son, lest he be angry, and ye perish from the way, when his
wrath is kindled but a little. Blessed are all they that put their trust in
him.
(KJV)
http://dorewilliamson.com/
<larry4355@ncweb.com> wrote in message
news:2eh3hv8lkt7gdn81t67ijnpmrlkn8s877k@4ax.com...
On 13 Jul 2003 06:06:33 GMT, Rick Foster <spoker@concentric.net>
wrote:
Hi Rick.
How ya doing buddy, have not spoke to you in a while. I pray that all
is well with you and the misses. I see you have struck a conversation
up with dore. See will be interesting to talk to, that is if you like
talking to someone that things they are the returned Jesus Christ in a
female body. I have pointed out several times that, that is not
possible, but she says I do not know what I am talking about. If you
don't believe what I say is true, just ask her if she is the Jesus
Christ returned in a female body.
Any how, hope again all is well, and take care.
May the Lord bless you and keep you my friend,
Larry
.
|
|
|
| User: "Midwinter" |
|
| Title: Re: Do Christians Sin...2 |
15 Jul 2003 05:24:02 AM |
|
|
On 15 Jul 2003, Dore had this to say:
Since the enmity is between the devil and the woman, doesn't it make
sense that I have returned as a woman to OVERCOME and defeat the
serpent, the devil himself, as it was prophesied, completing what has
started from the beginning?
No.
Firstly, 'the devil' is not mentioned in Genesis. The 'bad guy' there is
the serpent, snakes having been traditionally considered untrustworthy
and devious creatures in many cultures at that time. This was written
some while before the concept of 'the Devil' was arrived at. Satan was
only required as a balance to an all-loving, merciful God, to explain the
evil that clearly happens in the world. Until the writers of the New
Testament decided he was needed elsewhere, Satan was a servant of God,
albeit one who perhaps enjoyed his work a little too much.
Secondly, you are reading things the wrong way around. The curse of Eve
was a story written to explain something that contemporary people could
not explain - why a woman's reproductive cycle works as it does. That
story has now been superceded by a better biological understanding of the
process, so it is no longer required. But the story also served those
with a mind to treat women as inferior, by labelling them as the authors
of humanity's misery and sin, and laid the foundation for later religious
misogyny, such as that built into the structure of Christianity by Paul.
Thirdly, of course, you are not Christ. You have been posting to these
groups for a considerable length of time. The Bible says nothing about
the returned Christ wasting years of his/her time ranting on a newsgroup.
If you truly were Christ, you would be doing what was required of you,
instead of loafing around on here. I suspect you choose to do so because
it is the only place you can do your 'returned daughter of God' act
without the threat of being sectioned - or whatever your country calls it
when they forcibly take people into care.
Christ's persecution has been, well, a godsend to the delusional, since
they can interpret any advice to seek medical assistance or counselling
as persecution in a similar vein, thus proving (at least to themselves)
that they are indeed Christ. However, that does not make it true for
them, nor for you, Dore. If everyone who genuinely believed they were
Christ actually WAS, we would be in serious trouble.
--
Midwinter
.
|
|
|
| User: "Dore" |
|
| Title: Re: Do Christians Sin...2 |
18 Jul 2003 05:41:36 PM |
|
|
"Midwinter" <midw688@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bf0ko2$glj$1@hercules.btinternet.com...
On 15 Jul 2003, Dore had this to say:
Firstly, 'the devil' is not mentioned in Genesis. The 'bad guy' there is
the serpent, snakes having been traditionally considered untrustworthy
and devious creatures in many cultures at that time. This was written
some while before the concept of 'the Devil' was arrived at. Satan was
only required as a balance to an all-loving, merciful God, to explain the
evil that clearly happens in the world. Until the writers of the New
Testament decided he was needed elsewhere, Satan was a servant of God,
albeit one who perhaps enjoyed his work a little too much.
The devil doesn't have to be "mentioned" specifically to KNOW that the
serpent was Satan. The "concept" of man, doesn't matter since the devil was
around BEFORE the earth was created.
Rev 20:2
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and
Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
(KJV)
cont.
Secondly, you are reading things the wrong way around. The curse of Eve
was a story written to explain something that contemporary people could
not explain - why a woman's reproductive cycle works as it does. That
story has now been superceded by a better biological understanding of the
process, so it is no longer required. But the story also served those
with a mind to treat women as inferior, by labelling them as the authors
of humanity's misery and sin, and laid the foundation for later religious
misogyny, such as that built into the structure of Christianity by Paul.
Eve wasn't a story, to explain anything. She was a person, the mother of
all humans and her experience was an event, not some explanation for a
woman's reproductive cycle. And NOWHERE does it state to TREAT women as
INFERIOR, but that her husband would rule over her. According to that
theory, then we should all consider men, as weaklings, with no mind of their
own, who submitted to the woman to eat of the fruit without choice. Men,
like to PRETEND that they are innocent of the first sin and use the excuse
of Eve to hate women, but that was NOT God's intent, and because Paul bought
into that concept, then he was in great error.
cont.
Thirdly, of course, you are not Christ. You have been posting to these
groups for a considerable length of time. The Bible says nothing about
the returned Christ wasting years of his/her time ranting on a newsgroup.
If you truly were Christ, you would be doing what was required of you,
instead of loafing around on here. I suspect you choose to do so because
it is the only place you can do your 'returned daughter of God' act
without the threat of being sectioned - or whatever your country calls it
when they forcibly take people into care.
I am not wasting my time ranting in newsgroups, I am here JUDGING the people
here, as it was written that you would be JUDGED by your words. And what
better place then here, where there is nothing but the words of men, who
have no fear that to show their true colors in what they say because of the
anonymity, so then, this is the perfect place to judge. So, I AM doing what
is required of me, here and everywhere else I do my work. And YOU, who don't
KNOW who I am, can say that I am NOT Christ, because I don't live up to YOUR
expectations of what YOU THINK I should be doing, but that doesn't make what
you THINK true. I am Christ, and because I act, speak and walk in a mature,
level headed, and of sound mind manner, why would anyone seek to take me
away to their "care". Just because you don't believe it, doesn't make it
true. I KNOW who I am, GOD knows who I am, and various others know that I am
Christ as well. You'll find out the hard way with so many others, when I
rise to be revealed, and the whole earth WAILS because of me.
cont.,.
Christ's persecution has been, well, a godsend to the delusional, since
they can interpret any advice to seek medical assistance or counselling
as persecution in a similar vein, thus proving (at least to themselves)
that they are indeed Christ. However, that does not make it true for
them, nor for you, Dore. If everyone who genuinely believed they were
Christ actually WAS, we would be in serious trouble.
It only takes the ONE Christ to BE Christ, and because I am, and you don't
believe, that puts YOU in serious trouble. Maybe you should take a more
careful attitude and be wise and seek the truths of Christ, and of God, in
righteousness, being OBEDIENT to every word out of the mouth of God to
receive the Holy Spirit of truth, instead of carelessly and foolishly making
judgments without KNOWLEDGE, WISDOM and the HOLY SPIRIT, and stop
pretending that unless Christ fulfills YOUR expectations and imaginations,
I couldn't BE Christ. I have suffered many things and many persecutions and
horrors that you don't even know exists, however, I NEED NO help from any
human, for the Father heals my heart and lifts me up and restores my Spirit
to Him. Most of the time, I am a very content and extremely joyful person,
having the pleasure of being WITH the Father and watching Him work daily and
having Him tell me how proud He is of me, and good and righteous, I am,
embracing me, kissing me and sharing a relationship with Him, that | | | | | | | | | | | | | | |
