| Topic: |
Religions > Bible |
| User: |
"John the Baptist Jr." |
| Date: |
17 Sep 2006 04:11:44 PM |
| Object: |
Does the KJV say that God repented from Sin? |
In one of my Bible studies I ran accross these verses in the KJV. These seem
to indicate that God "repented."
[Jon 3:10] And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way;
and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them;
and he did it not.
[Jon 3:9] Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his
fierce anger, that we perish not?
[Am 7:3] The LORD repented for this: It shall not be, saith the LORD.
The NKJV, the ESV and the NIV all use the word "Relented" in place of
"Repented."
But what does the word mean in the original text? Unfortunately I do not have
a KJV with Strongs numbers for the Hebrew OT.
But my NASB with Strongs Concordance says that the Hebrew word used in Amos
7:3 is the word "nacham." But the text used to translate the NASB is not thne
Majority Texts, so I cant comment on Amos 7:3.
Perhaps Pastor Dave or someone more educated on the original languages can
comment.
John
--
[Isa 45:22] “Turn to me and be saved,all you ends of the earth; for I am God,
and there is no other.
[23] By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word
that will not be revoked:
Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear.
.
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| User: "Flowerchild8245" |
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| Title: Re: Does the KJV say that God repented from Sin? |
17 Sep 2006 08:01:49 PM |
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John the Baptist Jr. wrote:
"Does the KJV say that God repented from Sin?"
God "repented", but not from sin, from wrath. That is to say, God
"sighed" in his heart. Isn't it cool that God will change His mind when
he sees people are trying to change theirs! This is the Hebrew word
used in Jonah 3:9-10, and Amos 7:3:
H5162- Strong's Concordance
=D7=A0=D7=97=D7=9D
na=CC=82cham
naw-kham'
A primitive root; properly to sigh, that is, breathe strongly; by
implication to be sorry, that is, (in a favorable sense) to pity,
console or (reflexively) rue; or (unfavorably) to avenge (oneself): -
comfort (self), ease [one=E2=80=99s self], repent (-er, -ing, self).
You don't have to speak Hebrew or Greek, but a Strong's Concordance is
really helpful. (and comparing translations!) Would you like a FREE
KJV+ Strong's?
Download a FREE e-Bible from www.e-sword.net After the initial
download, ( KJV+, that's a KJV with Strong's Concordance which is
really helpful ), you can add as many translations as you wish, most
any version, most any language, most helpful is the search tool, and it
works on or off line. the Sword of the LORD with an electronic edge.
--BIBLE, its all inside.
In one of my Bible studies I ran accross these verses in the KJV. These s=
eem
to indicate that God "repented."
[Jon 3:10] And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way;
and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them;
and he did it not.
[Jon 3:9] Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his
fierce anger, that we perish not?
[Am 7:3] The LORD repented for this: It shall not be, saith the LORD.
The NKJV, the ESV and the NIV all use the word "Relented" in place of
"Repented."
But what does the word mean in the original text? Unfortunately I do not =
have
a KJV with Strongs numbers for the Hebrew OT.
But my NASB with Strongs Concordance says that the Hebrew word used in Am=
os
7:3 is the word "nacham." But the text used to translate the NASB is not =
thne
Majority Texts, so I cant comment on Amos 7:3.
Perhaps Pastor Dave or someone more educated on the original languages can
comment.
John
--
[Isa 45:22] =E2=80=9CTurn to me and be saved,all you ends of the earth; f=
or I am God,
and there is no other.
[23] By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word
that will not be revoked:
Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear.
.
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| User: "Grinder" |
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| Title: Re: Does the KJV say that God repented from Sin? |
17 Sep 2006 08:21:47 PM |
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John the Baptist Jr. wrote:
"Does the KJV say that God repented from Sin?"
Flowerchild8245 wrote:
God "repented", but not from sin, from wrath.
Hmmm. Isn't wrath one of the seven deadly sins?
Regardless, I would agree with you that this action cannot be a
repentance from sin. Sin is by definition to go against God's
wishes/commandments. God can do whatever He wants and it could only be
called whimsy, not sin.
That is to say, God "sighed" in his heart. Isn't
it cool that God will change His mind when he
sees people are trying to change theirs!
I'll admit that the image of a god with recognizable human traits is
more appealing to my literary sense than God = Love. The Greeks and
Romans, though, have Christendom beat on that score.
.
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| User: "*{whosoever}*" |
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| Title: Re: Does the KJV say that God repented from Sin? |
17 Sep 2006 05:44:52 PM |
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John the Baptist Jr. wrote:
In one of my Bible studies I ran accross these verses in the KJV. These seem
to indicate that God "repented."
The NKJV, the ESV and the NIV all use the word "Relented" in place of
"Repented."
But what does the word mean in the original text? Unfortunately I do not have
a KJV with Strongs numbers for the Hebrew OT.
The transliterated hebrew word "nacham" in the sense of Amos 7:3
basically means that God changed His mind. The word "repent" isn't
always connected with sin - it is connected, however, with change.
Perhaps Pastor Dave or someone more educated on the original languages can
comment.
"Pastor" Dave didn't know the difference between the Temple and the
synagogues around Israel during Jesus' time until I explained the
difference to him. He still thinks that "Armageddon" is a Hebrew word,
rather than transliterated Greek. If you want someone who is "more
educated on the original languages" - "Pastor" Dave isn't the person
you want your information from.
.
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| User: "John the Baptist Jr." |
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| Title: Re: Does the KJV say that God repented from Sin? |
17 Sep 2006 06:41:01 PM |
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In message <1158533092.168332.220800@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
"<<*{whosoever}*>>" <ontheskagit@verizon.net> wrote:
John the Baptist Jr. wrote:
In one of my Bible studies I ran accross these verses in the KJV. These
seem
to indicate that God "repented."
The NKJV, the ESV and the NIV all use the word "Relented" in place of
"Repented."
But what does the word mean in the original text? Unfortunately I do not
have
a KJV with Strongs numbers for the Hebrew OT.
The transliterated hebrew word "nacham" in the sense of Amos 7:3
basically means that God changed His mind. The word "repent" isn't
always connected with sin - it is connected, however, with change.
And why the NKJV uses the word "relent."
I mentioned Pastor Dave since he has shown some to have a familiarity with
the original texts.
But this is yet one of many passages that the KJV gets wrong in its translation.
The NKJV used more recent texts and why it in some ways is a more accurate
translation.
Perhaps Pastor Dave or someone more educated on the original languages
can
comment.
"Pastor" Dave didn't know the difference between the Temple and the
synagogues around Israel during Jesus' time until I explained the
difference to him. He still thinks that "Armageddon" is a Hebrew word,
rather than transliterated Greek. If you want someone who is "more
educated on the original languages" - "Pastor" Dave isn't the person
you want your information from.
--
[Isa 45:22] “Turn to me and be saved,all you ends of the earth; for I am God,
and there is no other.
[23] By myself I have sworn, my mouth has uttered in all integrity a word
that will not be revoked:
Before me every knee will bow; by me every tongue will swear.
Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
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** SPEED ** RETENTION ** COMPLETION ** ANONYMITY **
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| User: "Grinder" |
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| Title: Re: Does the KJV say that God repented from Sin? |
17 Sep 2006 07:48:27 PM |
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John the Baptist Jr. wrote:
In message <1158533092.168332.220800@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
"<<*{whosoever}*>>" <ontheskagit@verizon.net> wrote:
John the Baptist Jr. wrote:
In one of my Bible studies I ran accross these verses in the KJV. These
seem
to indicate that God "repented."
The NKJV, the ESV and the NIV all use the word "Relented" in place of
"Repented."
But what does the word mean in the original text? Unfortunately I do not
have
a KJV with Strongs numbers for the Hebrew OT.
The transliterated hebrew word "nacham" in the sense of Amos 7:3
basically means that God changed His mind. The word "repent" isn't
always connected with sin - it is connected, however, with change.
And why the NKJV uses the word "relent."
I mentioned Pastor Dave since he has shown some to have a familiarity with
the original texts.
But this is yet one of many passages that the KJV gets wrong in its translation.
The NKJV used more recent texts and why it in some ways is a more accurate
translation.
If you cannot read the sources of those translations, how can you
possibly say this? Whose authority are you referring to? Or, are you
just expressing which translations better fit your prejudices?
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| User: "Bible Bob" |
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| Title: Re: Does the KJV say that God repented from Sin? |
17 Sep 2006 08:57:24 PM |
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On Mon, 18 Sep 2006 00:48:27 GMT, Grinder <grinder@no.spam.maam.com>
wrote:
John the Baptist Jr. wrote:
In message <1158533092.168332.220800@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
"<<*{whosoever}*>>" <ontheskagit@verizon.net> wrote:
John the Baptist Jr. wrote:
In one of my Bible studies I ran accross these verses in the KJV. These
seem
to indicate that God "repented."
The NKJV, the ESV and the NIV all use the word "Relented" in place of
"Repented."
But what does the word mean in the original text? Unfortunately I do not
have
a KJV with Strongs numbers for the Hebrew OT.
The transliterated hebrew word "nacham" in the sense of Amos 7:3
basically means that God changed His mind. The word "repent" isn't
always connected with sin - it is connected, however, with change.
And why the NKJV uses the word "relent."
I mentioned Pastor Dave since he has shown some to have a familiarity with
the original texts.
But this is yet one of many passages that the KJV gets wrong in its translation.
The NKJV used more recent texts and why it in some ways is a more accurate
translation.
If you cannot read the sources of those translations, how can you
possibly say this? Whose authority are you referring to? Or, are you
just expressing which translations better fit your prejudices?
The latter. Wolf thinks what he is told to think by his handlers.
But since he changes handlers more frequently than he changes his
diapers; he get's a little confused sometimes.
......
BB
http://www.biblebob.net
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| User: "Bible Bob" |
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| Title: Re: Does the KJV say that God repented from Sin? |
17 Sep 2006 08:35:03 PM |
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On Sun, 17 Sep 2006 18:41:01 -0500, "John the Baptist Jr."
<johnw_94020@yahoo.comPDA> wrote:
In message <1158533092.168332.220800@i3g2000cwc.googlegroups.com>,
"<<*{whosoever}*>>" <ontheskagit@verizon.net> wrote:
John the Baptist Jr. wrote:
In one of my Bible studies I ran accross these verses in the KJV. These
seem
to indicate that God "repented."
The NKJV, the ESV and the NIV all use the word "Relented" in place of
"Repented."
But what does the word mean in the original text? Unfortunately I do not
have
a KJV with Strongs numbers for the Hebrew OT.
The transliterated hebrew word "nacham" in the sense of Amos 7:3
basically means that God changed His mind. The word "repent" isn't
always connected with sin - it is connected, however, with change.
And why the NKJV uses the word "relent."
I mentioned Pastor Dave since he has shown some to have a familiarity with
the original texts.
But this is yet one of many passages that the KJV gets wrong in its translation.
The NKJV used more recent texts and why it in some ways is a more accurate
translation.
You may think that logical; but is it true?
MS A 100AD
MS B 200AD
MS C 300AD
MS D 400AD
MS E 500AD
If MS D is a copy of A and MS E is a copy of MS C which is a copy of
B, which is more accurate?
Which Greek Text is more accurate?
Elzevir 1524,
Stephens 1550
Griesbach 1805
Lachman 1850
Tischendorf 1872
Tregelles 1872
Alford 1870
Wordworth 1870
Griesbach based his text on a theory of three declensions of the Greek
text. Lachman professed to give the text as it was received in the
East in the fourth century taking into account the African and Latin
Authorities. Tischendorf professed to follow the most ancisnt MSS but
not to the neglect of the evidence furnished by the ancient vesions
and Fathers. Tregelles used a principle substantially the same as
Lachman but allowed uncial MSS doiwn to the seventh century. Alford
constructed his text "by following in all ordinary cased the united or
prepondering evidence of most ancient authorities." Then there is
Tischendorf's Codex Sinaticus, etc, etc.
In short, don't believe the propaganda of Bible publishers. Some
versions do well in some parts of the Bible and other versions do well
in others. They are Bibles, John, not the texts themselves. They are
versions. I'd recommend you pay closer attention to "what
denominations" had the most influence in the publication of the
version; then you will know which way the version leans.
The best thing you can do would be to buy a Greek Interlinear. I
would recommend George Ricker Berry's which I have used since I bought
it in 1977. The paperback version is only about $16:
http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/product?item_no=106329&event=CF#curr
Perhaps Pastor Dave or someone more educated on the original languages
can
comment.
"Pastor" Dave didn't know the difference between the Temple and the
synagogues around Israel during Jesus' time until I explained the
difference to him. He still thinks that "Armageddon" is a Hebrew word,
rather than transliterated Greek. If you want someone who is "more
educated on the original languages" - "Pastor" Dave isn't the person
you want your information from.
......
BB
http://www.biblebob.net
.
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| User: "Bible Bob" |
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| Title: Re: Does the KJV say that God repented from Sin? |
17 Sep 2006 06:40:16 PM |
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On 17 Sep 2006 15:44:52 -0700, "<<*{whosoever}*>>"
<ontheskagit@verizon.net> wrote:
John the Baptist Jr. wrote:
In one of my Bible studies I ran accross these verses in the KJV. These seem
to indicate that God "repented."
The NKJV, the ESV and the NIV all use the word "Relented" in place of
"Repented."
But what does the word mean in the original text? Unfortunately I do not have
a KJV with Strongs numbers for the Hebrew OT.
The transliterated hebrew word "nacham" in the sense of Amos 7:3
basically means that God changed His mind. The word "repent" isn't
always connected with sin - it is connected, however, with change.
Perhaps Pastor Dave or someone more educated on the original languages can
comment.
"Pastor" Dave didn't know the difference between the Temple and the
synagogues around Israel during Jesus' time until I explained the
difference to him. He still thinks that "Armageddon" is a Hebrew word,
rather than transliterated Greek. If you want someone who is "more
educated on the original languages" - "Pastor" Dave isn't the person
you want your information from.
Amen.
......
BB
http://www.biblebob.net
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| User: "Bible Bob" |
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| Title: Re: Does the KJV say that God repented from Sin? |
17 Sep 2006 06:16:07 PM |
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On Sun, 17 Sep 2006 16:11:44 -0500, "John the Baptist Jr."
<johnw_94020@yahoo.comPDA> wrote:
In one of my Bible studies I ran accross these verses in the KJV. These seem
to indicate that God "repented."
[Jon 3:10] And God saw their works, that they turned from their evil way;
and God repented of the evil, that he had said that he would do unto them;
and he did it not.
[Jon 3:9] Who can tell if God will turn and repent, and turn away from his
fierce anger, that we perish not?
[Am 7:3] The LORD repented for this: It shall not be, saith the LORD.
The NKJV, the ESV and the NIV all use the word "Relented" in place of
"Repented."
But what does the word mean in the original text? Unfortunately I do not have
a KJV with Strongs numbers for the Hebrew OT.
But my NASB with Strongs Concordance says that the Hebrew word used in Amos
7:3 is the word "nacham." But the text used to translate the NASB is not thne
Majority Texts, so I cant comment on Amos 7:3.
Perhaps Pastor Dave or someone more educated on the original languages can
comment.
John
John,
"Repented" when applied to God is the figure Anthropopatheia
(ascribing to God what belongs to man). Here are three links that
confirm this:
http://www.biblebob.net/Figures/FIGURES%20OF%20SPEECH0.htm#_Toc95930461
Scroll down to or search for "Repentance is attributed to God"
or here:
http://www.biblebob.net/Figures/Anthropopatheia.htm
or here:
http://rhetoric.byu.edu/ then Anthropopatheia in right frame.
Anthropopatheia is one of the most important figures that a Christian
needs to know.
......
BB
http://www.biblebob.net
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