"Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net> wrote in message
news:kfSdnfMmM5iUKvPeRVn-sw@comcast.com...

Don't tell atheists what they think; let them tell you what they think.

The single greatest and most common mistake theists make in dialoguing
with
atheists, in my experience, is to attempt to present the atheist viewpoint

The thing is that 98% of those telling atheist what atheists
think are not interested in dialoguing.
They are here to harass us.
In which case telling us what we think works
quite well for them.

--
rb #2187

On Sun, 6 Nov 2005 21:07:52 -0500, "Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net>
wrote:

Don't tell atheists what they think; let them tell you what they think.

The single greatest and most common mistake theists make in dialoguing with
atheists, in my experience, is to attempt to present the atheist viewpoint
themselves and then argue against it.

It is no worse than Atheists who insult Theists' intelligence first
and then presume to present their interpretation of faith or religion
or whathaveyou.

This is an example of the pot calling the kettle black.

The problem with this is that
relatively few theists can accurately depict the atheist viewpoint, and when
they try, they often end up presenting nothing but the same old false
stereotypes - atheists are nihilists, atheists have no purpose in life,
atheists just want to be free of moral restraint, atheists are angry or
arrogant, and so on - which are common in apologetic literature, but which
do not represent the true beliefs of the vast majority of atheists. The
result is that the theist goes to some effort only to set up and then knock
down a straw man, while the atheist's actual position remains untouched.
This brings the atheist no closer to converting. If anything, it is far more
likely to produce annoyance at the one who would presume to speak for
atheists without understanding their views, and make a conversion even less
likely.

To evangelistic theists, my best advice is this: Don't rely on books written
by other theists to tell you what atheists think. Don't even rely on books
written by theists who claim they are ex-atheists. Most such books, based on
the ones I have read, cannot be trusted to accurately convey the atheist
viewpoint. If you want to learn about a position, there is no substitute for
asking people who actually hold that position. If you want to have a
productive dialog with an atheist, be sure to assume as little as possible,
and whenever it is practical ask them what they think, rather than
presuming. (How Not to Convert an Atheist;
http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/hownot.html)

Padraic.

la cieurgeourea provoer mal trasfu
ast meiyoer ke 'l andrext ben trasfu.

On Sun, 6 Nov 2005 21:07:52 -0500, "Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net>
wrote:

Don't tell atheists what they think; let them tell you what they think.

The single greatest and most common mistake theists make in dialoguing with
atheists, in my experience, is to attempt to present the atheist viewpoint
themselves and then argue against it.

It is no worse than Atheists who insult Theists' intelligence first
and then presume to present their interpretation of faith or religion
or whathaveyou.

This is an example of the pot calling the kettle black.

The problem with this is that
relatively few theists can accurately depict the atheist viewpoint, and when
they try, they often end up presenting nothing but the same old false
stereotypes - atheists are nihilists, atheists have no purpose in life,
atheists just want to be free of moral restraint, atheists are angry or
arrogant, and so on - which are common in apologetic literature, but which
do not represent the true beliefs of the vast majority of atheists. The
result is that the theist goes to some effort only to set up and then knock
down a straw man, while the atheist's actual position remains untouched.
This brings the atheist no closer to converting. If anything, it is far more
likely to produce annoyance at the one who would presume to speak for
atheists without understanding their views, and make a conversion even less
likely.

To evangelistic theists, my best advice is this: Don't rely on books written
by other theists to tell you what atheists think. Don't even rely on books
written by theists who claim they are ex-atheists. Most such books, based on
the ones I have read, cannot be trusted to accurately convey the atheist
viewpoint. If you want to learn about a position, there is no substitute for
asking people who actually hold that position. If you want to have a
productive dialog with an atheist, be sure to assume as little as possible,
and whenever it is practical ask them what they think, rather than
presuming. (How Not to Convert an Atheist;
http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/hownot.html)

Padraic.

la cieurgeourea provoer mal trasfu
ast meiyoer ke 'l andrext ben trasfu.

On Sun, 6 Nov 2005 21:07:52 -0500, "Bear" <bigbear1wh@nativeweb.net>
wrote:

Don't tell atheists what they think; let them tell you what they think.

The single greatest and most common mistake theists make in dialoguing with
atheists, in my experience, is to attempt to present the atheist viewpoint
themselves and then argue against it. The problem with this is that
relatively few theists can accurately depict the atheist viewpoint, and when
they try, they often end up presenting nothing but the same old false
stereotypes - atheists are nihilists, atheists have no purpose in life,
atheists just want to be free of moral restraint, atheists are angry or
arrogant, and so on - which are common in apologetic literature, but which
do not represent the true beliefs of the vast majority of atheists. The
result is that the theist goes to some effort only to set up and then knock
down a straw man, while the atheist's actual position remains untouched.
This brings the atheist no closer to converting. If anything, it is far more
likely to produce annoyance at the one who would presume to speak for
atheists without understanding their views, and make a conversion even less
likely.

To evangelistic theists, my best advice is this: Don't rely on books written
by other theists to tell you what atheists think. Don't even rely on books
written by theists who claim they are ex-atheists. Most such books, based on
the ones I have read, cannot be trusted to accurately convey the atheist
viewpoint. If you want to learn about a position, there is no substitute for
asking people who actually hold that position. If you want to have a
productive dialog with an atheist, be sure to assume as little as possible,
and whenever it is practical ask them what they think, rather than
presuming. (How Not to Convert an Atheist;
http://www.ebonmusings.org/atheism/hownot.html)

Ah, but, alas, that would require a two-way conversation. Theists
don't evenly hear sounds they haven't been trained to hear, like
individual thought, thinking outside of the Bible, that sort of stuff,
you know...DRAT, Drat, drat.
TheRain

Don't tell atheists what they think; let them tell you what they think.

The single greatest and most common mistake theists make in dialoguing
with
atheists, in my experience, is to attempt to present the atheist viewpoint
themselves and then argue against it.

Why not, hypocrite? You try to tell us what we think and then argue
against it.

You're wrong on what you're telling us, and you're wrong in your argument
against it.
2 strikes against you.